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***Official Donald J. Trump Impeachment (Whistleblower) Thread*** (5 Viewers)

Don't Noonan said:
A few comments here and there but nothing too bad.  His personality is to attack anyone who says something bad about him, too thinned skinned for a President IMO.  I put a lot of importance on how a father's kids act.  His kids are extremely smart, well spoken, and very successful.  Trump gets a huge credit for that in my book.
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I'm seriously questioning your knowledge of Trump and what he's done throughout his life.  He has a pretty long history of doing crappy things.

 
sho nuff said:
That’s opinion actually.  And the problem is of its better due to him (which there doesn’t appear to be actual facts supporting) or of there are things where we are worse off because of him (and there are).

And even that is irrelevant...people who do good things and make things around them better can still be guilty of others things.

The law doesnt look the other way because of the first stuff.

He could be the  best president ever (he isn't)...and his other actions would still be impeachable.  That is why the whole “how can they impeach me” with this atock market and hobs...and other crap is one of the worst defenses of him ever.

Note:  not exact quote and the use is meant to demonstrate some of the things Trump has said
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Fact.  Higher GDP, lower unemployment rate, higher wages, lower taxes.  

 
Don't Noonan said:
Fact.  Higher GDP, lower unemployment rate, higher wages, lower taxes.  
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Higher GDP than what?  He has never matched Obama's best year.  His GDP numbers have been bad according to his own words prior to becoming president.

Fact...unemployment rate has followed the same trends...no peaks showing where anything he did affected this.

Fact...lower taxes that mostly benefit the rich and big corporations.  That isn't making America better (this part is opinion).

Fact...wage growth has not been good...seriously, it hasn't.  https://www.frbatlanta.org/chcs/wage-growth-tracker.aspx

https://tcf.org/content/commentary/trump-claims-economy-best-ever-11-facts-tell-different-story/?gclid=Cj0KCQjwl8XtBRDAARIsAKfwtxBNoutfaaSlIRxHMoREahuyCZIVolLh0NjbW0gHiPP1q2VjaVi2sGEaAhDwEALw_wcB&agreed=1

And even having said that...none of it is relevant given what we know Trump has done with both Russia and now Ukraine.  That isn't how the law and oversight works.

 
Why do they let the doofuses occupying the SCIF have access to communication and anything other than water and bread?

 
Sinn Fein said:
I am not so sure. Watergate involved spying on an opposition party. Serious stuff. This involves risking national security by withholding military aid to a strategic partner who is under threat by an adversary. 
 

At a time when both Ukraine and the world needed to know that the US had Ukraine’s back - we were sowing seeds of doubt. 
 

And with Rudy’s acknowledgement last night that this was all done for Trumps benefit - this pretty easily passes Watergate in terms of potential damage to the country. 
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I'm fine if you want to say this is worse than Watergate. Does it make Watergate look silly? Just a dumb comment. imo.

 
bicycle_seat_sniffer said:
ill give you credit for being the last trumper to show their face really.....however if you think a majority of the people who voted for trump are doing better you are mistaken....and your statement isnt really accurate
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“My 401k is up a few more percentage points than when Obama was President. I also lost my job during Trump’s reign. I’m voting for Trump again.” - said no one ever

 
bicycle_seat_sniffer said:
ill give you credit for being the last trumper to show their face really.....however if you think a majority of the people who voted for trump are doing better you are mistaken....and your statement isnt really accurate
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If you really think anyone was doing better during the Obama 8 I think you are the one mistaken, even farm land values are taking off locally even with the tariff situation. 

 
GoBirds said:
If you really think anyone was doing better during the Obama 8 I think you are the one mistaken, even farm land values are taking off locally even with the tariff situation. 
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classic but obama!!!!!..again not the topic....however he inherited a #### show from w. and really turned it around nicely by the end of his terms....

 
Don't Noonan said:
Reasonable people understand there has not been sufficient evidence presented that Trump deserves to be impeached.  Time will tell what is taking place in these private testimonies.  I hope the full transcripts will be released.
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Using your interpretation of "transcript", they have. See Taylor's opening comments, for example.

 
timschochet said:
The latest completely absurd defense has been offered by former acting Attorney General Matthew Whittaker: 

https://www.google.com/amp/www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/trumps-former-acting-ag-presidential-abuses-power-arent-illegal/amp

”Abuse of power is not illegal”
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MATTHEW WHITAKER: I'm a former prosecutor and what I know is this is a perfect time for a preliminary hearing, where you would say, "Show us your evidence. What evidence of a crime do you have?"

I mean, the Constitution, you know, sort of -- abuse of power is not a crime. Let's fundamentally boil it down to -- you know, the Constitution is very clear that this has to be some pretty egregious behavior, and they cannot tell the American people what this case is even about.
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It's insane the former (acting) AG is just another hack commentator on Fox.

 
It's strange to me that on a day when Trump's DOJ attorney argues in open court that yes, Donald Trump cannot even be investigated even if he shoots someone on 5th Avenue - that gets less airplay than a sophomoric sit in by Republicans. Call me a cynic, but the timing for an alternative shiny thing for news to focus on seems to line up nicely, and from what I can tell, worked.

 
timschochet said:
The latest completely absurd defense has been offered by former acting Attorney General Matthew Whittaker: 

https://www.google.com/amp/www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/trumps-former-acting-ag-presidential-abuses-power-arent-illegal/amp

”Abuse of power is not illegal”
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This doesn't even make sense. It depends on what the abuse of power is. If, for example, the President abused his power by killing all of his dissenters, that would most definitely be a crime.

 
apalmer said:
Even more insane that he both assumes that the only thing being investigated is "abuse of power", claims it isn't a crime and then suggests that "pretty egregious behavior" must mean "crime".
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It's also a stupid rhetorical trick, like saying murder by gun is just misuse of a gun and hey yo lookit misuse of a gun isn't a crime, see?

 
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apalmer said:
Even more insane that he both assumes that the only thing being investigated is "abuse of power", claims it isn't a crime and then suggests that "pretty egregious behavior" must mean "crime".
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That is the other narrative they are pushing though.

1st was no quid pro quo.  Now that this has fallen apart a bit..its now it can't be a quid pro quo if Ukraine didn't know it?

Now we move on to...well, its not a crime or illegal so you can't impeach him.

Thats it...that is the defense at this point.  its not even that he didn't do what he is accused of...its now trying to justify doing so isn't illegal.

 
Lutherman2112 said:
Check out the comments in this article.

WV Trump supporters are completely convinced that Republicans are not participating in these depositions...even though one WV Rep was in fact, participating yesterday.

http://wvmetronews.com/2019/10/23/mooney-among-republicans-involved-in-impeachment-protest/
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That umpire yesterday thinks  the same. After his tweet about civil war, he wrote another tweet in which he complained that Trump was being impeached secretly in a basement without any Republicans even there. 

 
Lutherman2112 said:
Check out the comments in this article.

WV Trump supporters are completely convinced that Republicans are not participating in these depositions...even though one WV Rep was in fact, participating yesterday.

http://wvmetronews.com/2019/10/23/mooney-among-republicans-involved-in-impeachment-protest/
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Because Trump and the GOP have been better at getting out their version of things...and people believe it...despite it being completely untrue.

That is the divide in this country right now...the GOP and Trump has lied over and over and people still believe it.  Facts don't matter and the democrats have been awful at getting their message out and showing it...

 
I should explain the grand jury process to some of these republicans and blow their minds. 

 
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roadkill1292 said:
timschochet said:
Somehow I’m betting that Trump has never heard that song in his entire life. He strikes me as a classic rock guy, with maybe a little top 40 and Sinatra thrown in. 
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You just know he's a Tom Jones guy.
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I imagine if there's anything other than a Putting on the Ritz playing he smashes his hands over his ears then grunts and groans a lot like Dr. FrANkenstEIn's  creation. 

 
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sho nuff said:
That is the other narrative they are pushing though.

1st was no quid pro quo.  Now that this has fallen apart a bit..its now it can't be a quid pro quo if Ukraine didn't know it?

Now we move on to...well, its not a crime or illegal so you can't impeach him.

Thats it...that is the defense at this point.  its not even that he didn't do what he is accused of...its now trying to justify doing so isn't illegal.
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New defense getting floated in the WSJ today that even if Trump wanted a quid pro quo, he should not be impeached because he was too inept to carry it out.  

 
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sho nuff said:
Because Trump and the GOP have been better at getting out their version of things...and people believe it...despite it being completely untrue.

That is the divide in this country right now...the GOP and Trump has lied over and over and people still believe it.  Facts don't matter and the democrats have been awful at getting their message out and showing it...
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All that pushing of ‘fake news’ has really paid off for the GOP.

 
Don Quixote said:
New defense getting floated in the WSJ today that even if Trump wanted a quid pro quo, he should not be impeached because he was too inept to carry it out.  
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That defense is so bad, I think my brain shut down for a moment. Since when is incompetence an excuse for criminal behavior? Oh, I tried stealing that car, but I can't drive stick, they have to let me go now! Have we all lost our minds?

 
Don Quixote said:
New defense getting floated in the WSJ today that even if Trump wanted a quid pro quo, he should not be impeached because he was too inept to carry it out.  
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"Your Honor, the fact that my client was captured in the bank he was trying to rob proves he was too inept to carry out his plan, so he shouldn't be found guilty."*

*Disclaimer: Not an actual quote (at least until either Trump or Rudy tries to rob a bank). 

 
Kal El said:
That defense is so bad, I think my brain shut down for a moment. Since when is incompetence an excuse for criminal behavior? Oh, I tried stealing that car, but I can't drive stick, they have to let me go now! Have we all lost our minds?
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Its why people need to continue to contact their Senators and Representatives.  Identify yourself as a constituent.  Get your message through to them that the voters will hold them accountable.  That we want the process to go through as it is intended.  For all of the actual information to come out...for the lies to be refuted with the truth (and for McConnell to be pushed to bring legislation to the floor that the House has passed).  Enough of the kid gloves with all of this...the voters are not being represented right now...

 
sho nuff said:
Higher GDP than what?  He has never matched Obama's best year.  His GDP numbers have been bad according to his own words prior to becoming president.

Fact...unemployment rate has followed the same trends...no peaks showing where anything he did affected this.

Fact...lower taxes that mostly benefit the rich and big corporations.  That isn't making America better (this part is opinion).

Fact...wage growth has not been good...seriously, it hasn't.  https://www.frbatlanta.org/chcs/wage-growth-tracker.aspx

https://tcf.org/content/commentary/trump-claims-economy-best-ever-11-facts-tell-different-story/?gclid=Cj0KCQjwl8XtBRDAARIsAKfwtxBNoutfaaSlIRxHMoREahuyCZIVolLh0NjbW0gHiPP1q2VjaVi2sGEaAhDwEALw_wcB&agreed=1

And even having said that...none of it is relevant given what we know Trump has done with both Russia and now Ukraine.  That isn't how the law and oversight works.
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It gets very tiring to have to educate you about the same facts over and over.  Fact is GDP growth is on average higher for Trump so far on a per year basis by quite a lot over the 8 years of Obama.

Fact is unemployment is quite a bit lower now than under Obama.

Fact is majority of Americans are paying less in taxes now than before the tax bill.  Of course the rich are getting the biggest cut they were paying the most.  Do you understand how progressive taxes work?  That doesn't mean low and middle class families haven't benefited.  In fact, one could argue it helps them more because the extra $1,800 per year to them means so much more than the extra $5,000 to someone making $300k.

You guys can be upset with Trump as a person and if something comes out concrete that he deserves to be impeached I will be right there with you.  However, facts are he has been great for the United States.

 
BigJim® said:
It's strange to me that on a day when Trump's DOJ attorney argues in open court that yes, Donald Trump cannot even be investigated even if he shoots someone on 5th Avenue - that gets less airplay than a sophomoric sit in by Republicans. Call me a cynic, but the timing for an alternative shiny thing for news to focus on seems to line up nicely, and from what I can tell, worked.
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Hold up... that was real?

 
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