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***Official Donald J. Trump Impeachment (Whistleblower) Thread*** (11 Viewers)
- Thread starter snitwitch
- Start date
timschochet
Footballguy
With regard to my last post a Democratic senator (not sure who) was asked if the Democrats would publicly urge Roberts to cast a vote in the event of a tie vote. He replied “That’s not our role.”
This made me wonder, why not? But then it occurred to me that Democrats are not that displeased by a vote against witnesses?
This made me wonder, why not? But then it occurred to me that Democrats are not that displeased by a vote against witnesses?
timschochet
Footballguy
Wow. You might want to take a look at polling.
This result will be an outrage and a terrible defeat for the rule of law. It’s a shameful moment in our nation. But politically speaking, this is NOT a defeat for Democrats. Quite the opposite: it’s a huge win. This stain is going to be with the GOP for a long time, perhaps forever. Certainly Trump will never escape it; by the time this weekend is over he becomes OJ Simpson.
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The GOP is about to vote to silence first hand witnesses. Despite 75% of Americans wanting to hear from witnesses. There's not a fancy mathematician on the planet who can make that be a positive for Republicans.
Geez. Follow the thread, please. I said the Democrats will lose in terms of getting Trump removed but gained political yardage overall. How much staying power those gains might have is open to question.
What I said about the GOP is my view on what they will claim after this is over. Whether people see through the transparency of that is also an open question.
Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
Do you think between now and November that this will be the last we hear of this? I believe that there is book being released in March which per rumors discusses quite a bit of this. Probably going to be everywhere for a day or two - assuming the president doesn't start a war or something to bump it off the front page. I'm guessing others are in discussions to cash in right now. Maybe the GOP can hold off the avalanche until after November, but I think in the short term they will be buried by this. Long term - lets just say "we" stuck a fork in democrats forever in 2004 and then 2005 happened followed by the financial meltdown. So "we" stuck a fork in republicans forever in 2008 and then the ACA happened. And on and on...
The Big Donkey
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
IF the Republicans had allowed witnesses and then argued “we don’t think this rises to the level of impeachment” or “it’s only a few months until the election, let the voters decide”, I think the public would have put up with an acquittal. A large percentage might have disagreed but at least they would have regarded these as legitimate arguments.
But to allow no witnesses and then to acquit because you’ve heard enough and don’t want to hear anymore- the public will know what this is. And I don’t believe they’re going to accept it.
But to allow no witnesses and then to acquit because you’ve heard enough and don’t want to hear anymore- the public will know what this is. And I don’t believe they’re going to accept it.
The Big Donkey
Footballguy
Yup. This. Politically, staging an obvious cover-up like this is suicide for the GOP. Specifically, any swing state Senators who voted to silence witnesses. But Mitch had to obey Trump's demands. And Trump cares more about Trump than he does the Republican party. He was a Democrat 4 years ago.
The Tahitian Facemask
Footballguy
Doesn’t really matter who it benefits in November when the GOP rigs the living hell out of these elections.
timschochet
Footballguy
I trust that most people, including you, are sophisticated enough to understand what I meant by that remark: that Donald Trump will become a man who got away with a crime because his jury didn’t do their job, they decided, for political reasons, to let him off the hook. For the rest of his life Trump will not be able to prove his innocence because everyone will know what a sham his trial was. That’s why I compared him to OJ.
No. I don't think it's the last we hear of this. But I do think the voting public has become numb to the topic. Additional impeachment info will not move the needle vs. new information such as the state of the economy, Suleimani events, trade wars, etc that will surely occur between now and November.
Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
What are these November elections that keep getting mentioned? I mean if holding an election is bad for Trump's re-election then holding the election must be bad for the nation's interests and must be stopped!
timschochet
Footballguy
Actually that’s a good point. I assume a victory in November but Trump will cheat, so who knows? There’s no punishment for cheating; in fact, Alan Dershowitz suggested last night it should be regarded as patriotic.
Skoo
Footballguy
There isn't a person on earth who thought the Republicans were going to vote to remove Trump. And certainly not on this board.
Sometimes you have to do something because it's the right thing to do, regardless of how it effects your party politically.
Crazy I know.
The question is what happens next. If Trump behaves, it might be forgotten, but we know that’s not going to happen. He just got the ok to ignore all oversight attempts and that the GOP has his back with little resistance. What’s next is anyone’s guess but I bet he starts taking the crazy ramblings of Dershowitz to heart and believe that he’s above the law. The resulting behavior is what will keep this fresh in voters minds in November. ‘When Senator ______ had a chance to prevent this, not only they not vote to remove, they voted to not even hear new witnesses. What will they ignore if you send them back to Washington for another term?’
They should have allowed witnesses, if for nothing else, than to get everything out there in a controlled environment where they could make arguments vs. the testimony - as opposed to a drip, drip, drip that will likely come over time and playing defense. The public already knows that he'll be acquitted. By next week, assuming the trial ends, we'll be moving onto Iowa and the Democratic voting.
It's almost the opposite. We know we'll move onto the next outrage within days of this trial being over. By next fall, there will be 15-20 controversies or statements made that capture all of the media, not to mention the voting.
The only sham was the one cooked up by schiff and he's gonna fail miserably. The fact that there will be democrats voting in Trumps favor tells everyone that. The guy should spend more time fixing problems than going on a 3 year witch hunt. He's absolutely no different than Peter Strzok. He's just more sinister and capable of disguising his hate.
rockaction
Footballguy
Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
When have these times been when the Republicans have done the right thing regardless of how it effects their party politically? I mean they have done plenty of wrong things that one would have suspected to harm the party (somehow never does) but when were the "right things" involved?
roadkill1292
Footballguy
Plus Facebook and the Russians have been given clear green lights and the Supreme Court has told red states to gerrymander and vote suppress away!
Democrats know the Senate will not remove Trump. The whole point of this is to try to put the brakes on Trump undermining the coming election. It is to put the spotlight on the seriousness of the offenses in hopes Trump will back off. He didnt after the meuller probe so i dont hold much hope.
Trump has criminal charges waiting for him in New York. He is desperate for another four years.
timschochet
Footballguy
Your viewpoint is not representative of the majority. That doesn’t make you wrong, but it does suggest that your predictions about how this will play out might be in some question.
rockaction
Footballguy
tim, this is the worst post I've ever seen you have. It won't stain the GOP forever and it certainly doesn't rise to the level of O.J.
C'mon.
joffer
Footballguy
sure, lots of stupid between now and then. but an impeachment trial will not be forgotten.
Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
joffer
Footballguy
Skoo
Footballguy
Sorry, I guess I should've been more clear.
I was referring to the Democrats who chose to impeach in my response to Phantom's post.
rockaction
Footballguy
MA, MD, and good old conservative/Big Sky MT
I thought I was only doing "I's" but I threw Maine in there inexplicably.
roadkill1292
Footballguy
Republicans are desperate, especially to hold onto the Senate. But they will want the White House, too, because the thought of a Bernie clobbering them three times a week in his press conferences (remember when we had those?) and highlighting their refusal to even consider legislation that would help the little guy is too much of a terror to allow.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Victory in what? Impeachment and removal? Well...they got a half victory as he wasn't removed. That is but one battle in all of this.
The overall conflict though...not sure Id call it a victory to vote against witnesses and then vote to acquit...especially with defense putting it out there that anything is legal if he is doing it to get re-elected. That will play out against them IMO.
timschochet
Footballguy
The Senate might have one honorable moment today: Rand Paul is supposedly going to challenge Roberts by asking the identity of the whistleblower again and when Roberts refuses, plans to put it to a vote. If that happens then Republican senators can show a tiny bit of dignity by repudiating Paul and Trump on this one issue. It doesn’t make up for the greater shame but it will at least be a small positive step for them.
Great points. Trump may become emboldened by the outcome...and therefore continue more of the same and keep it fresh simply because he can't help himself.
Summer Wheat
Footballguy
What's going on with Whistle Blowers lawyer now? Heard on the radio that he made tweets in early 2017 about the coup has started and Trump needs to be removed. Then they talked about Schiff and Bolton's meetings. This is craziness!! I have a feeling this debacle is going to last awhile.
timschochet
Footballguy
Damn are you sure? I have a lot of posts. I’m sure I’ve written worse. Do you know who Roman Polanski is? Actually never mind...
Justice Roberts would be making a ruling based on the country's laws. Whistleblowers are granted protection. It's not an opinion. Are you sure that biased Senators can vote to have a law clearly disregarded? Putting a citizen's life in danger?
Not odd at all. I'm not the only one seeing this for what it is, an attempted overthrow of a duly elected US President.
And before you start in with 'oh, its The Hill', I'll stop ya in your tracks. Pretty close to center. https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-hill/ we rate The Hill Right-Center Biased based on editorial positions that moderately favor the right, however basic news reporting is generally balanced in story selection and reported in a straightforward manner. Obviously there will never be one of your left leaning sites saying this.
https://thehill.com/opinion/judiciary/464219-the-impeachment-agenda-of-democrats-is-a-political-coup
You won't read the above article even though it is spot on. Yeah, she's A Trump person. Don't bother with that angle since an anti-trump person would never admit the obvious.
Skoo
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
I missed the Polanski debacle. This is up there with the transgender issue debate we had back in like '15 or so. That was a doozy.
sho nuff
Footballguy
It is odd...as it fits no actual definition of coup.
It was not an attempted overthrow...its a constitutionally provided form of oversight when a President commits impeachable acts (which Trump has).
Spot on...she claimed the rule of law is being thrown out...by the democrats. Its laughable at best. A Trump person gives an opinion with very little factual or legal basis...and you think that proves its a coup. Yeah...its not a coup...its an odd thing to call it and still unsupported by fact or law.
Impeachment trial also tells other countries we take this meddling seriously. They are on notice too.
OrtonToOlsen
Footballguy
That's not an article. That's an opinion piece...by Trump's Senior Legal Advisor for the 2020 campaign.
I get everything about the coup plan except I can't figure out how they made Trump do all the illegal and unconstitutional stuff to help them out.
joffer
Footballguy
Godsbrother
Footballguy
If the Republican share Dersch's arguments then Trump is free to do whatever he wants to be re-elected without concern of repercussions either now or even after the 2020 election. If Trump skates on this (and it sure looks like he will) why wouldn't he employ his power to smear his political opponents?
joffer
Footballguy
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