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2017 Raiders - how's the 2018 draft looking? (1 Viewer)

joey said:
Welcome to 2017. And 2016. And 20forever
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I hope not and I try very hard to carry that thought through my actions, including everything I type here. It's not always easy and I'm not always successful (success rate inversely proportional to BAC) but I work at it constantly.  It's one of the things I can do and I think we can all do better.

If anyone wants to chat about this further please hit me up on PM we should be talking Raider football in here. TIA

 
Chaka said:
I hope not and I try very hard to carry that thought through my actions, including everything I type here. It's not always easy and I'm not always successful (success rate inversely proportional to BAC) but I work at it constantly.  It's one of the things I can do and I think we can all do better.

If anyone wants to chat about this further please hit me up on PM we should be talking Raider football in here. TIA
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I'm with you 100% man.

Treat others the way you'd like to be treated. Teach that to our kids. The world gets better.  

Signed,

Eternal optimist

ps.  Hope the  Raiders come out and pound Lynch to set a mean tone. 

 
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This is officially worrisome.

Our offense is literally nonexistent and our D doesn't have enough to stop the run and gives up chunks of yardage.

Not a good continuing trend.

 
That's a really good D and we're missing Crabtree.  This is one of those games we knew was going to be tough.  We're still in this thing and there's still a ton of time left.

 
Reggie's next move should be to trade Cooper for whatever he could get on the open market for him.  I'm tired of the drops, and for him not fighting for a ball.  Time to move on.  Cooper is not a true WR1.  He is nonexistent in games when needed.  And today suffered far more than a true WR1 should without having Crabtree on the field. 

 
Man, the D is actually playing pretty well.. the offense just needs to put up 20 points to win these games. Whodathunkit. 

 
kaso said:
Reggie's next move should be to trade Cooper for whatever he could get on the open market for him.  I'm tired of the drops, and for him not fighting for a ball.  Time to move on.  Cooper is not a true WR1.  He is nonexistent in games when needed.  And today suffered far more than a true WR1 should without having Crabtree on the field. 
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As much as the drops, it's the not fighting for the ball that is infuriating. On that last play, he let a defender get position, and didn't seem to make that much of an effort to hustle and fight tooth and nail for it.

 He looks...simply lazy out there.

 
Carr out 2-4 weeks with some kind of back fracture ("traverse process fracture"). Just saw the alert pop up from Sleeperbot on my phone. 

Oh boy...

 
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I saw 2-6 weeks. Either way, put a fork in them. Given Crabtree is banged up and Cooper has seriously regressed, they will be lucky to win 8 games. 

Wait till next year!  :football:

 
32 Counter Pass said:
I saw 2-6 weeks. Either way, put a fork in them. Given Crabtree is banged up and Cooper has seriously regressed, they will be lucky to win 8 games. 

Wait till next year!  :football:
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Two years ago I would have agreed but we've added a ton of NFL level talent the last couple of seasons.  Schedule:

vs. BAL
vs. LAC
vs. KCC
@ BUF
@ MIA
BYE

If Manuel can be decent we start with two very winnable games.  Road trip is tough but MIA is a train wreck right now and BUF isn't exactly what you would call a powerhouse.  If we can figure out how to go 3-2 we'll be well positioned.  Even going 2-3 would put us 4-5 getting Carr back.  Wildcard not out of reach by any stretch.  Our coaching needs to step up and earn those checks.  Any crap staff can fold up shop.  We need someone to get in there and get some D going, design a couple of offensive plays, get guys playing above their talent level.  If you asked me the one flaw we've had for the last 20 years, it would be that our coaching staff has never gotten our guys to outperform.

 
Hankmoody said:
Two years ago I would have agreed but we've added a ton of NFL level talent the last couple of seasons.  Schedule:

vs. BAL
vs. LAC
vs. KCC
@ BUF
@ MIA
BYE

If Manuel can be decent we start with two very winnable games.  Road trip is tough but MIA is a train wreck right now and BUF isn't exactly what you would call a powerhouse.  If we can figure out how to go 3-2 we'll be well positioned.  Even going 2-3 would put us 4-5 getting Carr back.  Wildcard not out of reach by any stretch.  Our coaching needs to step up and earn those checks.  Any crap staff can fold up shop.  We need someone to get in there and get some D going, design a couple of offensive plays, get guys playing above their talent level.  If you asked me the one flaw we've had for the last 20 years, it would be that our coaching staff has never gotten our guys to outperform.
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I agree and I don't have much confidence in this staff.  Carr went down last year and the team went completely in the tank.  Norton and JDR are not out-scheming anyone.  JDR is a competent coach, but I view him as a guy that is best when things are going well.  He's more of a motivational guy that will not fare well less than top level talent IMO.

 
Good post, Icon, tend to agree.

We have talent but Carr always seems to be that X-factor linchpin - I don't think this team has shown they are able to rise above without him.

That said, they weren't doing a hell of a lot with him so far this year.

Here's hoping we survive long enough to get Carr back and make a run at a Wildcard. Given our division and how we've played overall, not sure I'm confident we can do that.

 
Stompin' Tom Connors said:
As much as the drops, it's the not fighting for the ball that is infuriating. On that last play, he let a defender get position, and didn't seem to make that much of an effort to hustle and fight tooth and nail for it.

 He looks...simply lazy out there.
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It's not lazy IMO he honestly looks like he has lost confidence. I agree that he isn't a Calvin/Andre/Julio/AJ #1 WR but he undoubtedly has high level NFL talent. This is a mental issue IMO. Although laziness also qualifies as a mental issue. Either way it's not an issue of physical talent. He can recover and change this offense dramatically for the better, with or without Crabtree.

 
LOL. Man, the room just got ugly. Just so I am clear, JDR is the problem? The same JDR that went 12-4 last year?  :lmao:

I think you guys are casting shade in the wrong direction. The OLine has severly underperformed, considering their cap numbers and size. They have failed miserably in getting any push in the run game, while racking up penalties. Or how bout Coop? He seems to have forgotten how to play football. And Crabtree's absence certainly didn't help this past week. Now Carr is on the shelf for awhile. 

I don't think it is an accident or dumb luck we went 12-4 last year. JDR was a huge part of that progress. I think he is a good coach with the right demeanor for this team. Remember those double digit losing seasons? If so, then you should aporeciate JDR.

 
We have a talented team and Geno has game experience and surrounded by the best talent he has ever had. The defense has played better than anyone expected. If the O line can get their act together, all is not lost.

It's going to come down to Geno making some plays which of course is not ideal but if we can start off hot with a win against the ratbirds we can maybe see some swagger come back our way that we've been missing all year.

 
32 Counter Pass said:
https://www.silverandblackpride.com/2017/10/2/16406240/goros-quick-hits-for-raiders-week-4-loss-in-denver

Intersting take on Musgrave 
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Agreed. Plus coaching has to figure this into its play calling you would think

"But... Simmons : 6’2”, 32 5/8” arms, 40” vertical. Amari : 6’1”, 31 1/2” arms, 33” vertical. That’s a 9”+ differential. Simmons may not be well known now, but I bet he’s going to become a household name pretty soon."

We had Holmes for stuff like this last year

 
Gonna be interesting to see how the organisation reacts to this. Do we go foetal or knuckle down and get stuff sorted
 

I would rather watch a team triumph over adversity than get all the breaks

 
FreshiZ said:
We have a talented team and Geno has game experience and surrounded by the best talent he has ever had. The defense has played better than anyone expected. If the O line can get their act together, all is not lost.

It's going to come down to Geno making some plays which of course is not ideal but if we can start off hot with a win against the ratbirds we can maybe see some swagger come back our way that we've been missing all year.
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Geno?

 
32 Counter Pass said:
LOL. Man, the room just got ugly. Just so I am clear, JDR is the problem? The same JDR that went 12-4 last year?  :lmao:

I think you guys are casting shade in the wrong direction. The OLine has severly underperformed, considering their cap numbers and size. They have failed miserably in getting any push in the run game, while racking up penalties. Or how bout Coop? He seems to have forgotten how to play football. And Crabtree's absence certainly didn't help this past week. Now Carr is on the shelf for awhile. 

I don't think it is an accident or dumb luck we went 12-4 last year. JDR was a huge part of that progress. I think he is a good coach with the right demeanor for this team. Remember those double digit losing seasons? If so, then you should aporeciate JDR.
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Wait you want to give him all the credit for the good but not hold him accountable for the bad?  You can't have it both ways.  If he's responsible for 12-4 then he's also accountable for getting smoked in WAS and getting dominated in DEN.  Yes, all those things you called out are problems.  And JDR is the guy at the top of those problems.  He's the one that needs to fix all problems - either by getting them fixed or getting someone else to get them fixed.  Raising the play of the players and the coaching of the coaches.

No one is calling for him to be fired over them, we're expressing concern over his ability to correct them.  He couldn't in JAX and that got him canned.  He was great in JAX when the going was good though.  He's fun guy, great to be around, a player's coach.  But can he light a fire under them when things are tough?  Rah rah speeches get real old when you're busting your ### all day long and some other unit is holding the team back.  Gambling on 4th down is super fun when it works and you score the game winner, but it turns on you quick when your punter gets smoked deep in your own territory. 

 
Hankmoody said:
Wait you want to give him all the credit for the good but not hold him accountable for the bad?  You can't have it both ways.  If he's responsible for 12-4 then he's also accountable for getting smoked in WAS and getting dominated in DEN.  Yes, all those things you called out are problems.  And JDR is the guy at the top of those problems.  He's the one that needs to fix all problems - either by getting them fixed or getting someone else to get them fixed.  Raising the play of the players and the coaching of the coaches.

No one is calling for him to be fired over them, we're expressing concern over his ability to correct them.  He couldn't in JAX and that got him canned.  He was great in JAX when the going was good though.  He's fun guy, great to be around, a player's coach.  But can he light a fire under them when things are tough?  Rah rah speeches get real old when you're busting your ### all day long and some other unit is holding the team back.  Gambling on 4th down is super fun when it works and you score the game winner, but it turns on you quick when your punter gets smoked deep in your own territory. 
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I didn't give him ALL the credit. I said he "was a huge part of that progress."  JRD is not on the field. This is on players' shoulders, not the staff. It seems like you want to have it both ways when you say "Gambling on 4th down is super fun when it works and you score the game winner, but it turns on you quick when your punter gets smoked deep in your own territory." I do not recall you or anyone else complaining when it worked last year. 

Further, that was just one play, and certainly not the reason for the loss. The Raiders still had a chance to win on their last possession. Like I said, you are casting shade in the wrong direction. Here are a couple of numbers to consider instead of focusing on a fake punt that had little bearing: 11 first downs; 1.6 yards per rush. 

 
C'mon guys, JDR has never been known as an Xs and Os coach. A majority of the scheming and game planning falls on the shoulders of Dowling offensively. But like someone said earlier, it's on the players. The highly touted and highly paid Oline has to shoulder a huge chunk of the blame in the two losses. Carr has gone from being the least sacked QBs a season ago to a guy running for his life. And wheres Lynch? He can't find any running room and as it' turning out, he's not becoming a very big part of the offense. 

And the drops! Inexcusable... Cooper and Cook are becoming so unreliable to the point where they should be losing playing time. The Raiders could have beat the Donkeys if Cook would've caught that pass from Manuel. It was an excellent throw and a tough catch, but one Cook should make. 

All is not lost... Manuel moved the offense and the defense is surprisingly playing ok. Who would've thought in the off season that the offense would be the unit that is struggling and not the defense? If they can ground and pound it out the next two weeks and get back to winning the close games, they will have a shot at a wild card, but they have a lot of work ahead.

 
I don't think anyone is calling this a lost season.  But I expect my HC to figure out why the offensive line isn't working and do something about it.  And FTR the reason the line isn't doing it's job is most likely due to poor scheme not poor players.

 
Aren't you guys getting back another offensive lineman than you use as a 6th blocker this week? That should help the run game.

 
32 Counter Pass said:
I didn't give him ALL the credit. I said he "was a huge part of that progress."  JRD is not on the field. This is on players' shoulders, not the staff. It seems like you want to have it both ways when you say "Gambling on 4th down is super fun when it works and you score the game winner, but it turns on you quick when your punter gets smoked deep in your own territory." I do not recall you or anyone else complaining when it worked last year. 

Further, that was just one play, and certainly not the reason for the loss. The Raiders still had a chance to win on their last possession. Like I said, you are casting shade in the wrong direction. Here are a couple of numbers to consider instead of focusing on a fake punt that had little bearing: 11 first downs; 1.6 yards per rush. 
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And I don't give him ALL the blame.  Using the punt was just an allegory it wasn't meant as a literal symptom.  I agree, there's a whole lot that needs to change, but how do you make those changes?  You coach them.  Three years ago our talent level was deficient and all we could really hope for was some smoke and mirrors to keep things out of the disaster zone.  That isn't the case today.  But when an OLine like we have gets smoked you have to start somewhere.  The players aren't playing up to par - who's responsible for fixing that?  The defense still can't communicate in the secondary or cover a TE - who's responsible for fixing that?   Our starting QB is out and we need to get the next guy ready - who's going to make that happen?  It's not just JDR, the coordinators and position guys need to step up too.  But JDR as the man at the top is responsible for getting them all going.  This team has a lot more talent than the one JDR started with.  We need to start seeing returns on that. 

 
I don't disagree in principle with your last post but it is far too early to be blaming JDR. Like I said they had a chance to win on their final drive last week. I see the defense improving by small degrees every week. In fact, considering the offense only got 11 first downs and the defense held the Broncos to one TD are indicators of that progress. But not blocking and not catching the ball is falls solely on the players. 

 
Everybody made such good arguments on whether the current issues are JDR's fault or not JDR's fault. I guess the old axiom holds true: A (coach) gets too much credit when a team wins and too much blame when a team loses.

Anyway, I'd like to proffer that Manuel's thrusting into the QB position could be a blessing in disguise. First, it comes at a good time in the schedule. First two games, of course, are imminently winnable (if there's two teams struggling more than the Raiders it's the Ravens and Chargers). KC is likely a loss. Buffalo is likely a loss. Miami stinks (another team struggling more than the Raiders).

So I agree with Hankmoody--I think they'll win 3 of the 5 even with Manuel under center.

And I think that because, secondly, they're now going to pound the ball and have the offensive line reassert its dominance, the dominance it showed last year. Some poster said they've got too much pedigree and are being paid too much to continue to play as badly as they have. I agree. I think we'll see a 60/40 run/pass ratio at the minimum and somewhat of a righting of a listing ship.

And, thirdly, I was impressed with Manuel in the little time he played. Hostile environment, stellar defense and he held his composure well. I think they're in much better shape than they were last year when Carr went down. I know his career has been a bust. But you learn things in the league. You learn things by watching. I think he'll be serviceable and not kill them with stupid mistakes.

All contingent on the Raiders D playing similar to how they did this past Sunday. They're not gonna win any shootouts.

 
EJ Manuel showed in BUF that he is not the guy to hold the fort until Carr returns. That's just my humble opinion.

 
msommer said:
EJ Manuel showed in BUF that he is not the guy to hold the fort until Carr returns. That's just my humble opinion.
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This is also not the same scenario as when Carr went down last year.  The Raider O has struggled all season.  The Oline looks uninspired.  Cook and Cooper cannot catch.  Crabs is out.  The running game is really struggling.  I do not think it matters what Manual does as much as it matters that the Oline improve their play and Cook and Cooper catch passes that hit them in the hands. 

 
DocHolliday said:
... and Cook and Cooper catch passes that hit them in the hands. 
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On the bright side at least that's something they won't need to worry about for the next two to six weeks.

 
Time to update the topic head. ;)

Great day to be a Raider fan. Apparent good news on Carr (back Week 6 per report).

Will win today, 27-16.

 
Ed Wood said:
Time to update the topic head. ;)

Great day to be a Raider fan. Apparent good news on Carr (back Week 6 per report).

Will win today, 27-16.
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Definitely a winnable game but can see it going either way. Kind of a must win for both teams to stay on any semblance of a track.

Have stayed away from Raiders in fantasy/survivor/pick'ems this week for that reason. But my heart tells me this is a game we should, and will, win.

 
Ravens doing whatever they want on offense.

Fumble returned for a TD.

Have to take a timeout not having the right personnel on the field for a field goal.

Team does not appear too ready to play today.

 
So a downward trending team travelling all the way across the country after playing in London with a boat load of injuries comes into the Coliseum and whoops their a$$. What now? Another learning experience?

I wasn't expecting 12 wins again, but I was definitely expecting a competitive team this season. No one can be expected to score 30+ pts a week and win, I don't care who's at QB.

There... I vented, carry on...

 
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