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2020 MLB Spring Training (4 Viewers)

breaking from all of the bs in here can anyone else think of a time in mlb when players have been actively coming after other players like this i cant and that includes steriods and the drug era take that to the bank bromigos

 
SWC said:
also the new must face three batters rule is total bs take that to the bank brochachos
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I could see this being the first and only year for this.  I still think the better solution would've been to eliminated warm up throws on the mound. 

 
TheIronSheik said:
I could see this being the first and only year for this.  I still think the better solution would've been to eliminated warm up throws on the mound. 
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i hope so and solution to what though baseball is baseball and bringing in guys situationally is a part of the game and i dont mind the mound warm ups if they didnt have time to get ready in the pen basically i dont like it at all take that to the bank bromigo

 
SWC said:
i hope so and solution to what though baseball is baseball and bringing in guys situationally is a part of the game and i dont mind the mound warm ups if they didnt have time to get ready in the pen basically i dont like it at all take that to the bank bromigo
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Not historically though.  Bringing in guys to face one batter is a relatively recent phenomenon, and taking it out isn't some new fangled attempt to speed up the game as it is bringing it back to its roots.

 
they started recognizing saves in 1969 or 70 i think and there were recognized relief pitchers in the 30s like marberry although back then the guys they brought in for relief were usally starters i believe so i dont think the idea of bringing in closers or firemen is all that new but i guess i can accept that the idea of one hitter pitchers is relatively new versus the historical span of baseball all the same i do not like the idea at all of telling clubs when you bring a pitcher in it has to be for three batters its an artificial hard line that does not need to be there take that to the bank bromigo

 
I live in Houston and so I root for the Astros. Based on what the Astros did, I think Manfred should have taken the 2017 championship away. The reason he didn't was because he would probably have to take the 2018 championship away from the Red Sox. And then if there are any future scandals, he has set a precedent of taking away championships, so he would be under pressure to do it in the future. Basically he chickened out.

As a result, this season will be all about fans and players getting even with the Astros. If Manfred had taken away the 2017 title, I think other teams fans and players would have been much more likely to move on, and not feel the need to go after the Astros (as much) this season.

 
dhockster said:
I live in Houston and so I root for the Astros. Based on what the Astros did, I think Manfred should have taken the 2017 championship away. The reason he didn't was because he would probably have to take the 2018 championship away from the Red Sox. And then if there are any future scandals, he has set a precedent of taking away championships, so he would be under pressure to do it in the future. Basically he chickened out.

As a result, this season will be all about fans and players getting even with the Astros. If Manfred had taken away the 2017 title, I think other teams fans and players would have been much more likely to move on, and not feel the need to go after the Astros (as much) this season.
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I think I agree with everything here, except I do think there’s still a chance he takes the title. We’ll see. 

 
SWC said:
they started recognizing saves in 1969 or 70 i think and there were recognized relief pitchers in the 30s like marberry although back then the guys they brought in for relief were usally starters i believe so i dont think the idea of bringing in closers or firemen is all that new but i guess i can accept that the idea of one hitter pitchers is relatively new versus the historical span of baseball all the same i do not like the idea at all of telling clubs when you bring a pitcher in it has to be for three batters its an artificial hard line that does not need to be there take that to the bank bromigo
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I don't disagree that relief pitchers have always been part of the game.  Totally agree they have been.  What is relatively new is the guy that comes in to face one batter, regardless of outcome, and that is their main role on the team.

Here's a highly unscientific study.  I looked through the 1927 Yankees to see how many times a pitcher came in to face one batter during the whole season.  That happened exactly two times the whole season.  Both by the same pitcher.  One time he came in a got one out to finish an inning.  The other time he came in relief, faced one batter, and apparently got a triple play as he faced one batter but had 1.0 innings pitched.  Even the starters on the team that came in relief never faced less than two batters (facing two batters did happen several times admittedly, but not nearly as often as a full inning or more).

Again, highly unscientific but just one example of how it was in the old days.

 
Bull Dozier said:
I don't disagree that relief pitchers have always been part of the game.  Totally agree they have been.  What is relatively new is the guy that comes in to face one batter, regardless of outcome, and that is their main role on the team.

Here's a highly unscientific study.  I looked through the 1927 Yankees to see how many times a pitcher came in to face one batter during the whole season.  That happened exactly two times the whole season.  Both by the same pitcher.  One time he came in a got one out to finish an inning.  The other time he came in relief, faced one batter, and apparently got a triple play as he faced one batter but had 1.0 innings pitched.  Even the starters on the team that came in relief never faced less than two batters (facing two batters did happen several times admittedly, but not nearly as often as a full inning or more).

Again, highly unscientific but just one example of how it was in the old days.
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That's a pretty cool stat.  It's like when a pitcher comes in and picks the runner off to end the game.  They get a save without throwing a pitch.  

 
Bull Dozier said:
SWC said:
they started recognizing saves in 1969 or 70 i think and there were recognized relief pitchers in the 30s like marberry although back then the guys they brought in for relief were usally starters i believe so i dont think the idea of bringing in closers or firemen is all that new but i guess i can accept that the idea of one hitter pitchers is relatively new versus the historical span of baseball all the same i do not like the idea at all of telling clubs when you bring a pitcher in it has to be for three batters its an artificial hard line that does not need to be there take that to the bank bromigo
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I don't disagree that relief pitchers have always been part of the game.  Totally agree they have been.  What is relatively new is the guy that comes in to face one batter, regardless of outcome, and that is their main role on the team.

Here's a highly unscientific study.  I looked through the 1927 Yankees to see how many times a pitcher came in to face one batter during the whole season.  That happened exactly two times the whole season.  Both by the same pitcher.  One time he came in a got one out to finish an inning.  The other time he came in relief, faced one batter, and apparently got a triple play as he faced one batter but had 1.0 innings pitched.  Even the starters on the team that came in relief never faced less than two batters (facing two batters did happen several times admittedly, but not nearly as often as a full inning or more).

Again, highly unscientific but just one example of how it was in the old days.
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What happens if he faces 1 or 2 batters and feels some "tightness" or "discomfort" in his arm?  Not saying I'd advocate for this (*stros probably would).  But what happens if teams start doing this?

 
Hov34 said:
What happens if he faces 1 or 2 batters and feels some "tightness" or "discomfort" in his arm?  Not saying I'd advocate for this (*stros probably would).  But what happens if teams start doing this?
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I haven't read the rules so I don't know what the reality is.  Can't finish your inning?  Miss a mandatory number of games (ie, IR). :shrug:  

I get why people don't like it, it is an overly simplistic rule to try to solve a simple (perceived) issue in the game, that is ripe for unintended consequences.  However, bseball (to me) is getting to be unwatchable after the 5th inning with the pace of play and constant pitching changes, particularly in the playoffs.

 
Bull Dozier said:
I haven't read the rules so I don't know what the reality is.  Can't finish your inning?  Miss a mandatory number of games (ie, IR). :shrug:  

I get why people don't like it, it is an overly simplistic rule to try to solve a simple (perceived) issue in the game, that is ripe for unintended consequences.  However, bseball (to me) is getting to be unwatchable after the 5th inning with the pace of play and constant pitching changes, particularly in the playoffs.
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I wouldn't say unwatchable, but I'm getting tired of playoff innings after the 5th each taking 45 minutes.

 
It's been said 1000 times, but the easiest way to speed up the game is to make a rule that the batter can't leave the box between pitches, and the pitcher can't leave the mound between pitches to the same batter.  Cut out all the adjusting, spitting, re-adjusting, re-fastening, staring at the 3rd base coach.  Stand in there, take a pitch.  Pitcher, make your next pitch.

 
facook said:
It's been said 1000 times, but the easiest way to speed up the game is to make a rule that the batter can't leave the box between pitches, and the pitcher can't leave the mound between pitches to the same batter.  Cut out all the adjusting, spitting, re-adjusting, re-fastening, staring at the 3rd base coach.  Stand in there, take a pitch.  Pitcher, make your next pitch.
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Mike Hargrove has entered the chat.

 
Bull Dozier said:
TheIronSheik said:
I wouldn't say unwatchable, but I'm getting tired of playoff innings after the 5th each taking 45 minutes.
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You have to remember how old I am.  At my age, when the game slows down that much I tend to fall asleep.  Hence, unwatchable (because...I'm asleep).
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i bet im older than you both and at this point if i turn on golf i might as well have pajamas on take that to the bank brohans 

 
If you knew another company was cheating your company you owe it to your employer and co-workers to speak up.

Millions of dollars on the line.  Huge corporations involved.  This is not Bull Durham.

This is not that difficult of a decision.

 
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facook said:
It's been said 1000 times, but the easiest way to speed up the game is to make a rule that the batter can't leave the box between pitches, and the pitcher can't leave the mound between pitches to the same batter.  Cut out all the adjusting, spitting, re-adjusting, re-fastening, staring at the 3rd base coach.  Stand in there, take a pitch.  Pitcher, make your next pitch.
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So no signs from the 3B coach?  Something that would be better would be doing away with walk up music and force batters to get in the box sooner.  Right now they wait until previous batter is in the dugout and his music starts.  Do away with that for every batter and you will cut time tremendously.

 
Gally said:
So no signs from the 3B coach?  Something that would be better would be doing away with walk up music and force batters to get in the box sooner.  Right now they wait until previous batter is in the dugout and his music starts.  Do away with that for every batter and you will cut time tremendously.
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Takes 2 seconds to get the sign from 3rd.  Can do it while standing in the box.

ETA: I agree with the walk up music thing.  No reason a 9 inning game can't be done in 3 hours tops.  So much wasted time.

 
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So Mike Fiers tried to turn the Astros in several times: in 2018 he told the A's about the sign stealing  but the league didn't do anything about it. During the 2018 playoffs he told J.D. Martinez about it because the Red Sox were playing the Astros. Finally in 2019, he came out publicly because nothing had been done about the cheating at that time. I am sure he disapproved of the cheating when he was on the Astros. And I really don't have a problem with him coming forward if he had a guilty conscience. My only question is if he did it because he was a principled person who wanted to restore integrity to the game, wouldn't it make sense for him to return his world series ring and  his world series bonus money because he knows he may have gotten them as a result of the Astros cheating? Or could he have just done it because the Astros left him off the 2017 playoff roster and didn't resign him after the 2017 season? Just curious. 

 
dhockster said:
So Mike Fiers tried to turn the Astros in several times: in 2018 he told the A's about the sign stealing  but the league didn't do anything about it. During the 2018 playoffs he told J.D. Martinez about it because the Red Sox were playing the Astros. Finally in 2019, he came out publicly because nothing had been done about the cheating at that time. I am sure he disapproved of the cheating when he was on the Astros. And I really don't have a problem with him coming forward if he had a guilty conscience. My only question is if he did it because he was a principled person who wanted to restore integrity to the game, wouldn't it make sense for him to return his world series ring and  his world series bonus money because he knows he may have gotten them as a result of the Astros cheating? Or could he have just done it because the Astros left him off the 2017 playoff roster and didn't resign him after the 2017 season? Just curious. 
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I suspect his early September ‘19 outing at Minute Maid had something to do with it. 

I have linked it earlier in thread, I believe. 

 
gump said:
You two may be purposely misdirecting, but you're not getting the point.  Schools cheat to get kids in, and they all do it.  Then...those kids earn it on the field.  That's why they'll always get respect.  And why these Astros will never again be wholly respected.
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By rule when these schools cheat the players are ineligible to play. How is that fair to any of the athletes who legit EARNED THEIR WAY and weren't part of the cheating crowds. Why does that get respected more? Cheating is cheating. Auburn's cheating with Cam playing when he shouldn't legit cost Oregon Ducks a National Title. If I was one of their players and found this out I'd be absolutely pissed. More so only because the NCAA knows about it but only picks and choses who and what can cheat. 

 
facook said:
Takes 2 seconds to get the sign from 3rd.  Can do it while standing in the box.

ETA: I agree with the walk up music thing.  No reason a 9 inning game can't be done in 3 hours tops.  So much wasted time.
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Not if you are playing against the Astros

 
NREC34 said:
I suspect his early September ‘19 outing at Minute Maid had something to do with it. 

I have linked it earlier in thread, I believe. 
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I'd like to think the guy legit had a guilty conscious and wanted to do the right thing. Its not a stretch to denounce and not believe MLB just brushed it off when he first went to them. MLB even and blatantly in the investigation say this was brought to them but they didn't investigate do to not enough evidence presented in the case. I mean Bud Selig and MLB brushed off Steriod use when they first learned about it in 1991. What makes anyone believe they wouldn't have with this either. 

WS ring returning it? Not sure what that proves. Honestly if he were to say I'm selling my ring and the money goes to whoever wins the bidding charity of choice Thats cool. That bonus money is already spent most likely. 

 
facook said:
Takes 2 seconds to get the sign from 3rd.  Can do it while standing in the box.

ETA: I agree with the walk up music thing.  No reason a 9 inning game can't be done in 3 hours tops.  So much wasted time.
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There's way more I'd do before cutting walk up music out to make games shorter. Make the StrikeZone what it should be from the Top of your shoulder down to your knees. This was made smaller because baseball was worried about not enough scoring. No need to worry about this now with how good overall the athletes are. 

I'd cut further down on mound visits between Catchers and Pitchers. Watching the 2010 WS I can't remember how many times I saw Posada go up to the pitcher. I think for two different batters he called time, went to the mound at least twice during at bats. 1 per inning. Do it a second time it's an intentional walk. 

Cut down on the amount of times after a strikeout the catcher throws the ball around the horn. Really no need for it. 

Cut down on in-between innings events especially ones that include the mascot and guest. If you do them keep them to the foul area or on the dugout. No need to be having entertainment in-between innings in the field of play. 

Cut down on amount of time there's a mound visit. For every second over the batter that is coming out the Umpire counts over. He goes over 4 seconds it's a free walk. 

I'm missing a lot more and that's only because I've been watching less baseball over the past few yrs. 

 
DJackson10 said:
By rule when these schools cheat the players are ineligible to play. How is that fair to any of the athletes who legit EARNED THEIR WAY and weren't part of the cheating crowds. Why does that get respected more? Cheating is cheating. Auburn's cheating with Cam playing when he shouldn't legit cost Oregon Ducks a National Title. If I was one of their players and found this out I'd be absolutely pissed. More so only because the NCAA knows about it but only picks and choses who and what can cheat. 
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A post ago everyone was cheating, now one of the richest programs in America is a victim? Cam EARNED HIS WAY against Oregon, Georgia, Bama, and Florida...on an even playing field. Unlike the tilted field the Astros won on.

 
DJackson10 said:
By rule when these schools cheat the players are ineligible to play. How is that fair to any of the athletes who legit EARNED THEIR WAY and weren't part of the cheating crowds. Why does that get respected more? Cheating is cheating. Auburn's cheating with Cam playing when he shouldn't legit cost Oregon Ducks a National Title. If I was one of their players and found this out I'd be absolutely pissed. More so only because the NCAA knows about it but only picks and choses who and what can cheat. 
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Oregon likely paid 3/4 of their players that year and every year after. Plz stop. This is embarrassing. 

 
-fish- said:
They likely cost the Dodgers players over $30 million by cheating, as well as reaching their lifelong goal of winning a championship.  They cost Aaron Judge an MVP.   They cost Mike Bolsinger his career.   What if the difference of Kershaw getting into the HOF is the fact that he never won a WS?

Yeah, if there are consequences as the players police themselves I'm good with that.   You want to clutch your pearls because some players that blatantly cheated and profited off it get beaned?  That's up to you.  
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You're an officer of the court, right? You in favor of chopping the hands off thieves, tar and feathering income tax cheats, putting people on the rack for jaywalking?

No part of our justice system allows for physical retaliation for any criminal (except the death penalty).

How does cheating in a sport warrant physical retribution? Its not part of who we are in a society, nor is most of the rest of the world.

You're pissed. I understand. If someone's wife cheats would you be okay with her getting something hurled toward her at her 100 mph that could seriously injure her?

I am in no way justifying the cheating the Astros did.

But I am stunned by you repeatedly inciting physical injury over any of this. 

You want revenge? Beat them in the world series next time. DOn't demean yourself and the sport with that "teach them a lesson by throwing at their head" nonsense. It sounds like something a deplorable would advocate.

 
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cosjobs said:
You're an officer of the court, right? You in favor of chopping the hands off thieves, tar and feathering income tax cheats, putting people on the rack for jaywalking?

No part of our justice system allows for physical retaliation for any criminal (except the death penalty).

How does cheating in a sport warrant physical retribution? Its not part of who we are in a society, nor is most of the rest of the world.

You're pissed. I understand. If someone's wife cheats would you be okay with her getting something hurled toward her at her 100 mph that could seriously injure her?

I am in no way justifying the cheating the Astros did.

But I am stunned by you repeatedly inciting physical injury over any of this. 

You want revenge? Beat them in the world series next time. DOn't demean yourself and the sport with that "teach them a lesson by throwing at their head" nonsense. It sounds like something a deplorable would advocate.
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I understand what you are saying but sports has always worked differently than the criminal justice system.  Take a cheap shot at an NHL teams best player and an enforcer is going to come looking for you, a hard foul in basketball will be reciprocated.  Right or wrong, the brush back pitch has always been part of baseball culture for a lot more minor offenses than cheating.

Cole Hamels of all people plunked Bryce Harper for nothing more than sort of being a jerk.

 
Tom Hagen said:
I understand what you are saying but sports has always worked differently than the criminal justice system.  Take a cheap shot at an NHL teams best player and an enforcer is going to come looking for you, a hard foul in basketball will be reciprocated.  Right or wrong, the brush back pitch has always been part of baseball culture for a lot more minor offenses than cheating.

Cole Hamels of all people plunked Bryce Harper for nothing more than sort of being a jerk.
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Your first two examples are physical retaliations for physical retaliations, which aren't really the same thing.

Your last example I find unacceptable and so does MLB.

 
DJackson10 said:
I'd like to think the guy legit had a guilty conscious and wanted to do the right thing. Its not a stretch to denounce and not believe MLB just brushed it off when he first went to them. MLB even and blatantly in the investigation say this was brought to them but they didn't investigate do to not enough evidence presented in the case. I mean Bud Selig and MLB brushed off Steriod use when they first learned about it in 1991. What makes anyone believe they wouldn't have with this either. 

WS ring returning it? Not sure what that proves. Honestly if he were to say I'm selling my ring and the money goes to whoever wins the bidding charity of choice Thats cool. That bonus money is already spent most likely. 
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I don’t think that’s very likely but possible I suppose. I feel mlb knows way more than what’s in the report as well. In their best interest for this to die down and have one team take all the outrage and act as a deterrent. 

 
There’s an interesting thread on Reddit. 
 

2017 World Series

Game 1 in LA: Clayton Kershaw pitches 7 innings, gives up 3 hits and Ks 11.

Game 4 in Houston, Clayton pitches 4.2 Innings, gives up 6 ER and Ks 2.

Heres the big catch, Kershaw threw 51 non fastballs in that game and had zero swinging strikes.  His swinging strike rate that year was 44% on his slider, 35% on his curve, and 25% on his Change.  There’s someone currently running a simulation that you can look at in real-time - he’s currently at 2400 simulations and the odds on not having a single swinging strike is just over 1 in 3 Million. 
 

 
bigmarc27 said:
There’s an interesting thread on Reddit. 
 

2017 World Series

Game 1 in LA: Clayton Kershaw pitches 7 innings, gives up 3 hits and Ks 11.

Game 4 in Houston, Clayton pitches 4.2 Innings, gives up 6 ER and Ks 2.

Heres the big catch, Kershaw threw 51 non fastballs in that game and had zero swinging strikes.  His swinging strike rate that year was 44% on his slider, 35% on his curve, and 25% on his Change.  There’s someone currently running a simulation that you can look at in real-time - he’s currently at 2400 simulations and the odds on not having a single swinging strike is just over 1 in 3 Million. 
 
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No big deal

Everyones doing it. Right @NREC34?

 
It does make sense to me that they did something in game 5. Also possible he was tipping pitches. It was an improbable comeback. 

 
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