NREC34
Footballguy
My football team playing to go to the super bowl and I’m just riveted by this.Baseball took over the landscape for the entire week of the NFL Championship games which I barely heard a peep about. Amazing.
My football team playing to go to the super bowl and I’m just riveted by this.Baseball took over the landscape for the entire week of the NFL Championship games which I barely heard a peep about. Amazing.
I wonder how many tainted players CC played withFrom CC Sabathia:
Hey CC, Sheik says its not a big deal
That's not true. They have only investigated the Astros as of now and they said they started in 2017 and stopped early in 2018.The difference is that the MLB was very careful to not pass on who did it and how recently it happened. If the buzzers thing is true and they admitted as much then it would be relatively easy for someome to figure both of those out and make it public knowledge.
Dozens? Well then. It must be true. I mean, forget all of the evidence that shows that it's literally been going on since the 1800's, including using electronic transmission devices since 1900. If you are telling me DOZENS of players say it's a big deal, well then sir, you must be correct.I love how Shiek keeps saying this is not a big deal and it has been going on for hundred years. But what he fails to realize is there are DOZENS of players furious about this scandal. If this has been going on LIKE THIS for hundred years the players wouldn't be furious about this. Its like hes ignoring the people most directly impacted by this yet he keeps saying its no big deal because he played baseball once 20 years ago and it wasn't a big deal.
If they were the better team, they would've won. Did they win? I forget. Who are the 2017 World Series Champions?From CC Sabathia:
Hey CC, Sheik says its not a big deal
DING DING DING DING!!!!!I dont watch baseball but have seen this story explode the past few days.
My question, if teams/players knew or suspected Houston was stealing signs why didnt the opposing pitching staff simply change or reverse the signs? Wouldnt that screw up the team stealing? If a player was looking for a curve but got a fastball instead. Or whatever
Did people know or suspect? Closest that I've seen is when Danny Farqahur stepped off when he heard the trash can bangs, but maybe I've missed something. If players on opposing teams were aware of the Astros wearing buzzers, I think that would have leaked before now.I dont watch baseball but have seen this story explode the past few days.
My question, if teams/players knew or suspected Houston was stealing signs why didnt the opposing pitching staff simply change or reverse the signs? Wouldnt that screw up the team stealing? If a player was looking for a curve but got a fastball instead. Or whatever
There have been a couple of stories that came out the past couple of days about teams "knowing" they were doing it. The Mariners were one. I forget the other one I saw. May have been the Indians.Did people know or suspect? Closest that I've seen is when Danny Farqahur stepped off when he heard the trash can bangs, but maybe I've missed something. If players on opposing teams were aware of the Astros wearing buzzers, I think that would have leaked before now.
Totally agreeDodger fan here and no we don't. At least not the ones in my circles. Vacated? Sure. Awarded to LA? Hell No. And I've seen the city council thing and some other reports. Officials trying to make a name for themselves.
Trevor Bauer and Mike Clevinger seem particularly butt hurt right now.There have been a couple of stories that came out the past couple of days about teams "knowing" they were doing it. The Mariners were one. I forget the other one I saw. May have been the Indians.
Bauer is butt hurt about anything the Astros do. Dude is kind of whiny. But this wasn't a player. I thought it was a manager or coach that was saying it. I could be wrong.Trevor Bauer and Mike Clevinger seem particularly butt hurt right now.
Or Weasel in Deadpool 2One thing that's important to note here is that the players were given full immunity to explain in detail how and when they did this. One time immunity. And on top of the immunity, nothing they said was going to be leaked to the public. With that knowledge, if any of these players did NOT give over every bit of information, that means they could be suspended just like everyone else. That leads me to believe fairly strongly that there is no additional cheating outside of what was said. I don't think the Astros were stealing sign during the 2019 season for the simple fact that if they were, and it was somehow found out, their careers would be over. Forever. Shoeless Joe Jackson style.
I can't see anyone taking that chance to only detail some of their misdoings. When life gives you full immunity, you take full immunity. I would've been blabbering like Chunk in the Goonies.
This could be a reaction similar to the Ray Rice situation. By that I mean he was investigated by Goodell and handed out a 2 game suspension. Rice admitted to everything he did and that was his punishment......Then the video came out that showed he did exactly what he said he did. But now since people can see it that became a much bigger deal......even though it just proved he was being truthful in the investigation. Nothing changed other than people now saw the incident so it became much, much worse.....even though it was exactly what he said he did.The players were obviously complicit either way.
Yeah but in the message you were quoting it was implied that the means of collecting the signals was cameras either way, the only difference was in how they were relayed.
Basically he was asking why is stealing signs with cameras and then transmitting them via trash can pretty bad, but stealing signs with cameras and then transmitting them via buzzers the worst scandal in the history of anything?
The stealing signs with cameras and relaying them to the players was the bad part. The method of relay on those electronically stolen signs doesn't seem that important. It's bad either way.
There’s a dude that knows things about NY I bet...The Cubs are kicking the tires on Jacoby Ellsbury. If they can't sign him, they will check in on Steve Finley and Juan Pierre.
If it was while he was on the Stros it's possible he had good reason to be more paranoid about it than the average pitcher though.I was listening to an interview this morning and the player (CJ Nitkowski) talked about broadcasting a game in Cleveland that Verlander was pitching where he was using sign sequencing even with nobody on base because he thought the Indians were trying to steal his signs. I didn't catch the year and whether Verlander was on the Tigers still or the Astros but either way some players were aware of the possibility and took steps to prevent it.
In the court of public opinion, it doesn't have to be proven.Part of me wants see this buzzer stuff get proven just for Twitter entertainment
Yep. Even if they didn’t do this it’s maybe the worst part of it.In the court of public opinion, it doesn't have to be proven.
I'm not saying that in public opinion people are guilty until proven innocent (although there is an argument for that).
I'm saying that once you are proven guilty of cheating in one form, then in the public eye you are capable of cheating in any form. There is no benefit of the doubt regarding anything that looks like you might have cheated in another form. If you did one form, and it looks like you may have done another, then you probably did the other too in the court of public opinion.
How about Baseball needs to change the narrativeCapella said:Baseball needs to keep some integrity here.
He wasn't given immunity, so Ray Rice still had a reason to lie.This could be a reaction similar to the Ray Rice situation. By that I mean he was investigated by Goodell and handed out a 2 game suspension. Rice admitted to everything he did and that was his punishment......Then the video came out that showed he did exactly what he said he did. But now since people can see it that became a much bigger deal......even though it just proved he was being truthful in the investigation. Nothing changed other than people now saw the incident so it became much, much worse.....even though it was exactly what he said he did.
So people might thing using cameras to steal signs is bad but relaying via trashcans is one level.....but relaying by electronic buzzer is much, much worse. Just the perception even though the actual action is the exact same result.
Yup. And like Jack McDowell said, in the olden days, if you thought a guy was stealing signs, you'd call for a curve and then pipe a heater high and inside. Then you'd stare the guy down or yell to him to quit stealing signs. Self policed. Again, baseball is unlike any other sport.The majority of the complainers are pitchers...….of course they are going to be against any form of this but they also could have altered their signs and turned that into an advantage for themselves if they were suspicious of signs being stolen.
I was listening to an interview this morning and the player (CJ Nitkowski) talked about broadcasting a game in Cleveland that Verlander was pitching where he was using sign sequencing even with nobody on base because he thought the Indians were trying to steal his signs. I didn't catch the year and whether Verlander was on the Tigers still or the Astros but either way some players were aware of the possibility and took steps to prevent it.
There was video of the tipping pitches. Everyone could see it once they pointed it out. Even the pitcher acknowledged that he was tipping his pitches.
No matter what the Astros do for the next 5 or so years, they will be accused of cheating. That's what happens when you get caught. And they can't blame anyone but themselves for that. If they go out and win the WS this year, people will still think they are cheating.In the court of public opinion, it doesn't have to be proven.
I'm not saying that in public opinion people are guilty until proven innocent (although there is an argument for that).
I'm saying that once you are proven guilty of cheating in one form, then in the public eye you are capable of cheating in any form. There is no benefit of the doubt regarding anything that looks like you might have cheated in another form. If you did one form, and it looks like you may have done another, then you probably did the other too in the court of public opinion.
The Patriots don’t care what anyone else thinks. A title is a title and leagues are not going to vacate championships.No matter what the Astros do for the next 5 or so years, they will be accused of cheating. That's what happens when you get caught. And they can't blame anyone but themselves for that. If they go out and win the WS this year, people will still think they are cheating.
Nelson Cruz says hi.That's a lot of money for a guy in his mid 30's.$$$$
@Ken_Rosenthal: Donaldson deal with #MNTwins, per source: Four years, $92M. Deal includes fifth-year option that can increase total value of deal to $100M. First with agreement: @Feinsand.
Great so at least one time giving a mid 30 something player a big contract worked out. I understand why the Twins did it but its risky that's all. Hope it works out for the Twins. The AL could use another team to go up against the evil empire of the Yankees and Red Sox and the cheaters down in Houston. Would be nice to see another team rise up and unseat one of those teams.Nelson Cruz says hi.
I saw that they were in on Wheeler, Bumgarner and Ryu. After losing out on all three of them, they felt they needed a big signing. Not saying that's bad or good. Sometimes this works out. But you never want to just sign a guy because you had hoped to sign a big name during the offseason. Especially when the first 3 guys were pitchers and you end up signing a position player.Great so at least one time giving a mid 30 something player a big contract worked out. I understand why the Twins did it but its risky that's all. Hope it works out for the Twins. The AL could use another team to go up against the evil empire of the Yankees and Red Sox and the cheaters down in Houston. Would be nice to see another team rise up and unseat one of those teams.
I agree it was risky, especially that he'll be 37 in the last year, but that's what they had to do to get him signed. And it improves their Defense and allows Sano to move to 1B, while putting another 30+ HR guy with a high OBP in the lineup. Now I have no illusions that they can compete with teams with multiple stud Starting pitchers come playoff time, but the 162 game ride will be fun and as a Twin fan that's really all I can hope for until baseball fixes its financial inequalities.Great so at least one time giving a mid 30 something player a big contract worked out. I understand why the Twins did it but its risky that's all. Hope it works out for the Twins. The AL could use another team to go up against the evil empire of the Yankees and Red Sox and the cheaters down in Houston. Would be nice to see another team rise up and unseat one of those teams.Nelson Cruz says hi.
But he didn't lie. That was my point. He told Goodell exactly what he did.....got a two game suspension. Then when the video came out showing that he did exactly what he said he did they suspended him indefinitely. Video just made the act real in people's minds because they could see it. Same with the buzzer....people could understand that a bit better (even if it didn't happen) as being over the line than banging trashcans even if it accomplished the same thingHe wasn't given immunity, so Ray Rice still had a reason to lie.
In an interview I saw, he said he always wanted a chance to manage in the American League.I wouldn't mind seeing Dusty Baker come in as the Astros coach. I think an old school guy with a winning reputation might be good for them.
Did he feel disrespected when they offered him that huge contract that he signed?Not a good sign in Colorado.
The GM makes an announcement that Arenado will not be traded and that he's staying with the team. Then 15 minutes later, Arenado issues a statement saying he feels disrespected by the Rockies organization.
Whoopsie.
Separately, according to the latest polls, looks like Larry Walker may fall a few votes short of getting enshrined in Cooperstown.Not a good sign in Colorado.
Not sure. Let me check with him and report back.Did he feel disrespected when they offered him that huge contract that he signed?
I'm seeing Larry Walker as a strong bet to get in along with Jeter.Separately, according to the latest polls, looks like Larry Walker may fall a few votes short of getting enshrined in Cooperstown.
Interesting - which polls are you looking at?I'm seeing Larry Walker as a strong bet to get in along with Jeter.
Schilling is on the fence right now
Don't sleep on the Royals. They will be right up there in 2031.Great so at least one time giving a mid 30 something player a big contract worked out. I understand why the Twins did it but its risky that's all. Hope it works out for the Twins. The AL could use another team to go up against the evil empire of the Yankees and Red Sox and the cheaters down in Houston. Would be nice to see another team rise up and unseat one of those teams.