2022-23 NBA Thread: “you’ll never let me down like the Heat did”, Miami fan says to giant pile of cocaine (2 Viewers)

[GordonGekko]

If desperate Lakers don't take on Kyrie, his NBA career is over

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html


Next year, as a street free agent, and as a vested veteran with over 10 years of NBA accrued service time, the Designated Veteran's Minimum Exception should be about 2.7 million dollars.

The NBA, under a long standing provision in the CBA, offers a "cash offset" to every franchise in the league. That means while Kyrie Irving can sign a one year deal at 2.7 million, the franchise only has to pay 1.7 million in cash. The other million is paid by the NBA itself. ( To incentivize signing veterans, which statistically helps keep a mass of younger players from earning enough service time to get an NBA pension, in a bizarre way, the NBA is saving long term money this way)

The DVME, as listed, is an exception to the cap. Meaning while the salary has tax implications against a team's total, it does not operate as real salary counted towards the actual soft cap limit, if the team is over said cap and into the luxury tax zone. Which is the case for most contending teams in the NBA.

That means Irving can sign with any contender next year, and they can cut him at any time with no need to make any other cap maneuvers. For 1.7 million in cash. They have to pay the luxury tax or repeater tax on the 2.7 million, but for an All Star point guard who can still consistently create his own shot and get to the rim.

It's easy to say no one wants to deal with Irving's crap, but how badly do some players want to win a ring?

Even the Warriors with their wealth of talent, how many players on that team can consistently create their own shot? Curry and Poole.

Memphis? Phoenix? Bucks? TWolves? A pure offensive engine is one of the most valuable assets you can have on an active NBA roster.

In the last four season, albeit with injuries and limited usage, Irving averaged 27/5/6.5 with 1.5 steals a game. A career 39 percent three point shooter and an 88 percent free throw shooter. He's a complete match up nightmare. He can burn you even while being bracketed with double coverage. His shot selection is atrocious and he still hits circus shots on the regular. He creates a lot of natural gravity. As much as Steph Curry? No, but still at an elite level.

Could a contender turn him down anyway? It's possible. But if the upside is a championship with Irving headlining your 2nd unit for the cost of 1.7 million dollars and the freedom to cut him at any time?

 

[Deamon]

Kyrie + Ben for Harden.

 

[Zow]

bucks wolves tonight brohans should be a good game but i sort of feel like minny has our number tonight take that to the bank

We would have if KG played.

 

[Zow]

I think y'all are fooling yourselves if you think either Kyrie or Simmons gets the Nets a first round pick back in any trade. Both those dudes are so radioactive that the Nets would have to pay to get them off the books and that includes Kyrie for Westbrook straight up.

Sprewell

That's Timberwolves legend Latrell Sprewell, sir.

Another guy I got to see a ton of in practice. Pretty decent teammate/guy. Zero issues that I saw.

 

[Craig_MiamiFL]

From way downtown.....BANG!!!!

 

[Anarchy99]

If desperate Lakers don't take on Kyrie, his NBA career is over

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html


Next year, as a street free agent, and as a vested veteran with over 10 years of NBA accrued service time, the Designated Veteran's Minimum Exception should be about 2.7 million dollars.

The NBA, under a long standing provision in the CBA, offers a "cash offset" to every franchise in the league. That means while Kyrie Irving can sign a one year deal at 2.7 million, the franchise only has to pay 1.7 million in cash. The other million is paid by the NBA itself. ( To incentivize signing veterans, which statistically helps keep a mass of younger players from earning enough service time to get an NBA pension, in a bizarre way, the NBA is saving long term money this way)

The DVME, as listed, is an exception to the cap. Meaning while the salary has tax implications against a team's total, it does not operate as real salary counted towards the actual soft cap limit, if the team is over said cap and into the luxury tax zone. Which is the case for most contending teams in the NBA.

That means Irving can sign with any contender next year, and they can cut him at any time with no need to make any other cap maneuvers. For 1.7 million in cash. They have to pay the luxury tax or repeater tax on the 2.7 million, but for an All Star point guard who can still consistently create his own shot and get to the rim.

It's easy to say no one wants to deal with Irving's crap, but how badly do some players want to win a ring?

Even the Warriors with their wealth of talent, how many players on that team can consistently create their own shot? Curry and Poole.

Memphis? Phoenix? Bucks? TWolves? A pure offensive engine is one of the most valuable assets you can have on an active NBA roster.

In the last four season, albeit with injuries and limited usage, Irving averaged 27/5/6.5 with 1.5 steals a game. A career 39 percent three point shooter and an 88 percent free throw shooter. He's a complete match up nightmare. He can burn you even while being bracketed with double coverage. His shot selection is atrocious and he still hits circus shots on the regular. He creates a lot of natural gravity

. As much as Steph Curry? No, but still at an elite level.

Could a contender turn him down anyway? It's possible. But if the upside is a championship with Irving headlining your 2nd unit for the cost of 1.7 million dollars and the freedom to cut him at any time?

You actually think Kyrie would play for $2.7 million? That’s a 93% pay cut compared to this year. I don’t think he wants to chase a ring or loves the game so much that he would do anything to stay in the league. Kyrie cares about Kyrie. In your scenario, I think he would sit out until someone paid him his usual salary, or he would go play overseas. Or he could retire and find something else to do.

 

[GroveDiesel]

If desperate Lakers don't take on Kyrie, his NBA career is over

After the way things went down between LeBron and Kyrie in Cleveland, I’m not sure LeBron would want anything to do with Kyrie.

 

[GordonGekko]

. As much as Steph Curry? No, but still at an elite level.

Could a contender turn him down anyway? It's possible. But if the upside is a championship with Irving headlining your 2nd unit for the cost of 1.7 million dollars and the freedom to cut him at any time?

You actually think Kyrie would play for $2.7 million? That’s a 93% pay cut compared to this year. I don’t think he wants to chase a ring or loves the game so much that he would do anything to stay in the league. Kyrie cares about Kyrie. In your scenario, I think he would sit out until someone paid him his usual salary, or he would go play overseas. Or he could retire and find something else to do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Y8Z8_-iU0M


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDQyvLNC0NM



Kyrie Irving talks about his time in Boston. He talks about depression and suicidal ideation. In Brooklyn, he was formally given "mental health days" off of all team activities.

230 million in career earnings as an NBA player. Also a fully vested veteran eligible for post career pension and health care benefits.

His Nike contract, his major endorsement, was projected to average about 11 million a year. That means he's earned over 132 million just from Nike alone. That doesn't include his other endorsements ( Pepsi is the other major one) and his bonus/salary structure for his Uncle Drew movie.

Other players in the modern era have turned down more money to play in the situation/circumstances they want and like and prefer. It would not be unprecedented.

It's unclear what Irving will do. Not much he's done in the last 3-4 seasons makes much sense.

The same basic point remains the same - If Irving wants to play, for the DVME for a single one year signing, which is 1.7 million in cash for any team, particularly any contender, for 20 minutes a night as a pure bench gunner, plus the team will hold the ability to cut Irving at any time for any reason without any further roster movement to adjust their cap, there will be lots of teams who will overlook his issues and put him on the roster. The opportunity is there if he wants it.

I believe there are many people here who are underestimating how insanely difficult it is for an NBA franchise to find someone who can create their own shot consistently, potentially drop 27 points a game on the regular defying all matchups, while being targeted defensively by the other teams game plan night after night. This doesn't even factor in Irving's playmaking ability plus the floor spacing implied while still being able to get to the rim at will.

Even as a diva and even with stated public mental health issues, Irving is a pure offensive engine. Teams have overlooked worse and those players have gotten back on the court or back onto the field.

 

[Anarchy99]

. As much as Steph Curry? No, but still at an elite level.

Could a contender turn him down anyway? It's possible. But if the upside is a championship with Irving headlining your 2nd unit for the cost of 1.7 million dollars and the freedom to cut him at any time?

You actually think Kyrie would play for $2.7 million? That’s a 93% pay cut compared to this year. I don’t think he wants to chase a ring or loves the game so much that he would do anything to stay in the league. Kyrie cares about Kyrie. In your scenario, I think he would sit out until someone paid him his usual salary, or he would go play overseas. Or he could retire and find something else to do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Y8Z8_-iU0M


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDQyvLNC0NM



Kyrie Irving talks about his time in Boston. He talks about depression and suicidal ideation. In Brooklyn, he was formally given "mental health days" off of all team activities.

230 million in career earnings as an NBA player. Also a fully vested veteran eligible for post career pension and health care benefits.

His Nike contract, his major endorsement, was projected to average about 11 million a year. That means he's earned over 132 million just from Nike alone. That doesn't include his other endorsements ( Pepsi is the other major one) and his bonus/salary structure for his Uncle Drew movie.

Other players in the modern era have turned down more money to play in the situation/circumstances they want and like and prefer. It would not be unprecedented.

It's unclear what Irving will do. Not much he's done in the last 3-4 seasons makes much sense.

The same basic point remains the same - If Irving wants to play, for the DVME for a single one year signing, which is 1.7 million in cash for any team, particularly any contender, for 20 minutes a night as a pure bench gunner, plus the team will hold the ability to cut Irving at any time for any reason without any further roster movement to adjust their cap, there will be lots of teams who will overlook his issues and put him on the roster. The opportunity is there if he wants it.

I believe there are many people here who are underestimating how insanely difficult it is for an NBA franchise to find someone who can create their own shot consistently, potentially drop 27 points a game on the regular defying all matchups, while being targeted defensively by the other teams game plan night after night. This doesn't even factor in Irving's playmaking ability plus the floor spacing implied while still being able to get to the rim at will.

Even as a diva and even with stated public mental health issues, Irving is a pure offensive engine. Teams have overlooked worse and those players have gotten back on the court or back onto the field.

To get to the heart of the matter, Kyrie is going to demand $35-40M a year for all the skills and scoring attributes you have outlined. You are suggesting he play one year at $2.7M. Neither side will agree to anything close to that. What’s bringing in someone potentially cra-cray and cancerous worth to a team? Irving has had multiple seasons with less than stellar results and off court incidents to show for it. It’s nice to think that he will finally “get it” and become a good soldier. But we said that about Antonio Brown too. Sure, he COULD take a Melo type role somewhere, but that doesn’t change any of his other issues and IMO all he would do is pout and complain about his contract. He had a chance last year to sign with the Lakers to team up with LeBron again for under $6M a year. He passed on that. I doubt he’d suddenly decide to take half of that now.

 

[GordonGekko]

The same basic point remains the same - If Irving wants to play, for the DVME for a single one year signing, which is 1.7 million in cash for any team, particularly any contender, for 20 minutes a night as a pure bench gunner, plus the team will hold the ability to cut Irving at any time for any reason without any further roster movement to adjust their cap, there will be lots of teams who will overlook his issues and put him on the roster. The opportunity is there if he wants it.

I believe there are many people here who are underestimating how insanely difficult it is for an NBA franchise to find someone who can create their own shot consistently, potentially drop 27 points a game on the regular defying all matchups, while being targeted defensively by the other teams game plan night after night. This doesn't even factor in Irving's playmaking ability plus the floor spacing implied while still being able to get to the rim at will.

Even as a diva and even with stated public mental health issues, Irving is a pure offensive engine. Teams have overlooked worse and those players have gotten back on the court or back onto the field.

To get to the heart of the matter, Kyrie is going to demand $35-40M a year for all the skills and scoring attributes you have outlined. You are suggesting he play one year at $2.7M. Neither side will agree to anything close to that. What’s bringing in someone potentially cra-cray and cancerous worth to a team? Irving has had multiple seasons with less than stellar results and off court incidents to show for it. It’s nice to think that he will finally “get it” and become a good soldier. But we said that about Antonio Brown too. Sure, he COULD take a Melo type role somewhere, but that doesn’t change any of his other issues and IMO all he would do is pout and complain about his contract. He had a chance last year to sign with the Lakers to team up with LeBron again for under $6M a year. He passed on that. I doubt he’d suddenly decide to take half of that now.

"Craig_MiamiFL said: If desperate Lakers don't take on Kyrie, his NBA career is over"


^
This is the post I was responding to and answering that claim.

The assertion made is that Kyrie Irving's NBA career is over beyond his control. That's not practical reality of the situation.

Irving can continue his NBA career if he wants to continue his NBA career, it might not be in the most ideal situation possible nor catered to his every want, but the idea that Irving has just one team as an option otherwise the rest of the league is closed off to him is not a practical assessment. If someone said Irving will never go back to Boston nor Brooklyn nor Cleveland, that those franchise have had enough of him to last a lifetime, then that's probably a fair consideration.

If Irving wants a street max, Yes, his market could be limited. Of course no one knows contract length. He'll lose his full Bird Rights, so the most he can sign for is 4 years. Will a team give him four years? At this stage, maybe not depending on the AAV. But if he is willing to sign a one or two year deal? Or a "one plus one" with a team option as the 2nd year? That's an entirely different ballgame.

The same thing was said about Michael Vick in the Shark Pool years and years ago with his major scandal that cost him his Falcons career timeline. They said he'd never play again and be a pariah and be outcast. Well the smoke finally cleared and he kept playing. Certainly it was nothing like his peak years, but he was still able to play for 7 more seasons, three as a full time starter, until his hard decline phase set in and he cycled out like most older players do. Technically speaking, Vick played more seasons in terms of actual service time POST scandal, than he did before the scandal. Lots of people still hated Vick, no doubt, but he ended up playing for THREE different franchises post scandal and post Atlanta. Even Vick had some options.

Franchises and head coaches and other players will put up with a lot to win and to potentially win a championship.

 

[Don Quixote]

Watching the Nets tonight without Irving is so much more enjoyable than any other of their games I've tuned into so far this year.
I don't really care what they do with the guy at this point.

I’m a Wizards fan, but, as a GW alum, loved seeing Yuta show out last night. Irving out seems to free up some minutes for players like him who give a ****.

 

[Capella]

With 7 wins banked the Jazz may have already blown their chance at getting the best odds for the top pick. Crazy how good they have been.

 

[SWC]

brokelyn is probably better without kyrie makes the ball move more freely and puts in guys who will play better d take that to the bank bromigos

 

[MAC_32]

If desperate Lakers don't take on Kyrie, his NBA career is over

After the way things went down between LeBron and Kyrie in Cleveland, I’m not sure LeBron would want anything to do with Kyrie.

Never say never, but...Kyrie will never be a Laker. How LeBron held that team together and got a ring despite this malcontent I'll never know. I get that the Cavs trading Kyrie may have accelerated LeBron's second exit, but after seeing what that cancer has done since management got that one right. That team was not going to win another ship and the fall out from the inevitable implosion would have been like the first time he left - an empty cupboard in a location that does not attract free agents. GM LeBron may be terrible at his job, but he's not a dummy - there is no managing Kyrie and he knows it.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

If desperate Lakers don't take on Kyrie, his NBA career is over

After the way things went down between LeBron and Kyrie in Cleveland, I’m not sure LeBron would want anything to do with Kyrie.

Never say never, but...Kyrie will never be a Laker. How LeBron held that team together and got a ring despite this malcontent I'll never know. I get that the Cavs trading Kyrie may have accelerated LeBron's second exit, but after seeing what that cancer has done since management got that one right. That team was not going to win another ship and the fall out from the inevitable implosion would have been like the first time he left - an empty cupboard in a location that does not attract free agents. GM LeBron may be terrible at his job, but he's not a dummy - there is no managing Kyrie and he knows it.

Weren’t there stories over the summer that Lebron and Kyrie had hashed things out? Not saying that definitely means Lebron wants him or things couldn’t have changed, but it doesn’t seem impossible.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

Does anyone know what exactly bol bol did to play like this?

Conditioning work over the summer? Specific skills work with some trainers? Hypnotherapy?

 

[GordonGekko]

brokelyn is probably better without kyrie makes the ball move more freely and puts in guys who will play better d take that to the bank bromigos

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/brooklyn-nets/cap/


Irving is chewing up 30 percent of their total cap.

Add in Simmons, that's 60 percent of their cap devoted to exactly zero offense, zero floor spacing, zero gravity, zero 3 point shooting, zero attacking the rim, zero close to everywhere.

In terms of shot creation, it's Durant, then you have to get to the third string, Cam Thomas, before you can find someone else who can consistently go into isolation and have the talent to make something happen. ( Thomas is a bad decision maker that offers nothing but potential quick burn offense so that neutralizes much of his ability to help this team. )

Without Irving, this forces Patty Mills into a bench production role that he's not capable of giving, not consistently night after night.

Sean Marks was pretty fortunate in that he had assets in a very deep draft in 2021. Cam Thomas, Day'Ron Sharpe and Kessler Edwards would have gone earlier in just about any other draft class. The slotting for Thomas (27th) and Sharpe (29th), means Marks has five years of team cost control but at a low salary rate. Getting all three for 6.5 million this year is an incredible bargain. By season's end, Sharpe by himself might be worth double that in production value.

Defensively, their best player is Royce O'Neale, he's very switchable and he's consistently disruptive. He offers just enough catch and shoot production behind the arc to not saddle the Nets with even less offense. Simmons is an above average defender, sometimes ventures into elite production ( since he's expending zero effort on offense, he can put 100 percent burn into his defense) but offers no rim protection, which forces Nic Claxton to provide consistent offense that might not carry over all season long.

Nets are 25th in points allowed, 26th in field goals allowed, 24th in creating turnovers and 26th in opponents 3 pointer percentage. The defensive problems on this team extend far past Kyrie Irving. The offense pressure is going to sap Durant on defense as well, as there are stretches where he's the only rim protector on the floor while also being the best wing defender on the floor at the same time.

What in the entire world are you talking about here? The ball moves better when you have elite level gravity on the floor. It's more than just the willingness to pass the ball. Pass the ball to whom now? To Durant so he can try to score while being bracketed in triple coverage? It's not just passing the ball, it's being purposeful with the ball to create a high percentage shot. Irving was a walking bucket. He is the perpetual high percentage shot. Without Irving, the Nets have to ask role players to expand beyond their practical capabilities to just win regular season games. You can do that for short stretches, but you can't ask a team to do that all season and expect to have massive success on the floor.

 

[GordonGekko]

Never say never, but...Kyrie will never be a Laker. How LeBron held that team together and got a ring despite this malcontent I'll never know...

How the NBA Finals validated Kyrie Irving

Cavaliers point guard came of age in his team's biggest games

www.usatoday.com

"...Irving made the biggest shot of his career – a game-winning 25-foot three-pointer with 53 seconds left in the fourth quarter – giving the Cavs a three-point lead.... and Cleveland beat the Golden State Warriors 93-89 in Game 7 of the NBA Finals on Sunday....Irving scored 26 points and proved that he could handle the big stage...

Against Golden State, Irving averaged 27.1 points, 3.9 assists, 3.9 rebounds and 2.1 steals and shot 46.8% from the field and 40.5% on three-pointers. He scored at least 30 points in three games, including 41 on 17-of-24 shooting in Game 5, which turned the series around for Cleveland, and 20 in the first half of Game 6....In the playoffs, he averaged 25.2 points, 4.7 assists and 3.0 rebounds and shot 47.5% from the field....."


*******

OK, sure, Irving had nothing to do with "holding the team together" for the 2016 NBA championship.....

What in the entire world are you even talking about here?

 

[Yo Mama]

If desperate Lakers don't take on Kyrie, his NBA career is over

After the way things went down between LeBron and Kyrie in Cleveland, I’m not sure LeBron would want anything to do with Kyrie.

Never say never, but...Kyrie will never be a Laker. How LeBron held that team together and got a ring despite this malcontent I'll never know. I get that the Cavs trading Kyrie may have accelerated LeBron's second exit, but after seeing what that cancer has done since management got that one right. That team was not going to win another ship and the fall out from the inevitable implosion would have been like the first time he left - an empty cupboard in a location that does not attract free agents. GM LeBron may be terrible at his job, but he's not a dummy - there is no managing Kyrie and he knows it.

Weren’t there stories over the summer that Lebron and Kyrie had hashed things out? Not saying that definitely means Lebron wants him or things couldn’t have changed, but it doesn’t seem impossible.

LeBron came out with a pretty strong statement condemning Kyrie last night, which is what a lot of people wanted to hear from Durant.

 

[MAC_32]

If desperate Lakers don't take on Kyrie, his NBA career is over

After the way things went down between LeBron and Kyrie in Cleveland, I’m not sure LeBron would want anything to do with Kyrie.

Never say never, but...Kyrie will never be a Laker. How LeBron held that team together and got a ring despite this malcontent I'll never know. I get that the Cavs trading Kyrie may have accelerated LeBron's second exit, but after seeing what that cancer has done since management got that one right. That team was not going to win another ship and the fall out from the inevitable implosion would have been like the first time he left - an empty cupboard in a location that does not attract free agents. GM LeBron may be terrible at his job, but he's not a dummy - there is no managing Kyrie and he knows it.

Weren’t there stories over the summer that Lebron and Kyrie had hashed things out? Not saying that definitely means Lebron wants him or things couldn’t have changed, but it doesn’t seem impossible.

Oh, no. I'm rough on LeBron, but he deserves kudos for keeping that group together. His leadership was able to keep Kyrie's jacked up head focused just enough so his talent could lead them to a ring. Once getting to the mountain top he lost the carrot to keep stringing Irving along then the locker room fractured. He was mad at that time of the trade because he thought he could fix the problem, but Irving's act over the last 5 years have shown that he would not have been successful. Kyrie's beyond repair.

 

[Frostillicus]

brokelyn is probably better without kyrie makes the ball move more freely and puts in guys who will play better d take that to the bank bromigos

What in the entire world are you talking about here? The ball moves better when you have elite level gravity on the floor. It's more than just the willingness to pass the ball. Pass the ball to whom now? To Durant so he can try to score while being bracketed in triple coverage? It's not just passing the ball, it's being purposeful with the ball to create a high percentage shot. Irving was a walking bucket. He is the perpetual high percentage shot. Without Irving, the Nets have to ask role players to expand beyond their practical capabilities to just win regular season games. You can do that for short stretches, but you can't ask a team to do that all season and expect to have massive success on the floor.

Granted it's just one game, but last night without Kyrie the Nets had their season high in assists (32 vs. an average this year of 25) and shooting percentage (55.6% vs. an average of 48.9%). And yes the Wizards are bad defensively, but still.

 

[General Malaise]

brokelyn is probably better without kyrie makes the ball move more freely and puts in guys who will play better d take that to the bank bromigos

What in the entire world are you talking about here? The ball moves better when you have elite level gravity on the floor. It's more than just the willingness to pass the ball. Pass the ball to whom now? To Durant so he can try to score while being bracketed in triple coverage? It's not just passing the ball, it's being purposeful with the ball to create a high percentage shot. Irving was a walking bucket. He is the perpetual high percentage shot. Without Irving, the Nets have to ask role players to expand beyond their practical capabilities to just win regular season games. You can do that for short stretches, but you can't ask a team to do that all season and expect to have massive success on the floor.

Granted it's just one game, but last night without Kyrie the Nets had their season high in assists (32 vs. an average this year of 25) and shooting percentage (55.6% vs. an average of 48.9%). And yes the Wizards are bad defensively, but still.

Wizards defended Philly just fine.

 

[GordonGekko]

Oh, no. I'm rough on LeBron, but he deserves kudos for keeping that group together. His leadership was able to keep Kyrie's jacked up head focused just enough so his talent could lead them to a ring. Once getting to the mountain top he lost the carrot to keep stringing Irving along then the locker room fractured. He was mad at that time of the trade because he thought he could fix the problem, but Irving's act over the last 5 years have shown that he would not have been successful. Kyrie's beyond repair.

LeBron James leaves floor early during Lakers' blowout loss

LeBron James was seen leaving the floor early with time left in the Lakers' blowout loss to the New Orleans Pelicans.

larrybrownsports.com

LeBron James Left The Court In The Middle Of The Game After Bulls Were Destroying The Lakers By 26 Points

It is now fair to say that the Los Angeles Lakers have so far not been able to live up to the expectations that the fans had from the team. The purple and

fadeawayworld.net

'B*tch Made*: LeBron James Draws Criticism After Leaving Lakers vs Bulls Game Early to Tweet | NBA News

LeBron James tried to sit through another humiliating loss of the Lakers against the Bulls, but eventually left for the locker room.

www.essentiallysports.com

Grizzlies announcer calls out LeBron James for leaving early

James didn't wait for the final buzzer to head to the locker room.

www.yardbarker.com

Lebron James, current season - 43.1 FG % / 20.7 3P FG % / 73.2 FT %

 

[Long Ball Larry]

brokelyn is probably better without kyrie makes the ball move more freely and puts in guys who will play better d take that to the bank bromigos

What in the entire world are you talking about here? The ball moves better when you have elite level gravity on the floor. It's more than just the willingness to pass the ball. Pass the ball to whom now? To Durant so he can try to score while being bracketed in triple coverage? It's not just passing the ball, it's being purposeful with the ball to create a high percentage shot. Irving was a walking bucket. He is the perpetual high percentage shot. Without Irving, the Nets have to ask role players to expand beyond their practical capabilities to just win regular season games. You can do that for short stretches, but you can't ask a team to do that all season and expect to have massive success on the floor.

Granted it's just one game, but last night without Kyrie the Nets had their season high in assists (32 vs. an average this year of 25) and shooting percentage (55.6% vs. an average of 48.9%). And yes the Wizards are bad defensively, but still.

Wizards defended Philly just fine.

 

[GordonGekko]

LeBron came out with a pretty strong statement condemning Kyrie last night, which is what a lot of people wanted to hear from Durant.

Take what Kyrie Irving is accused of doing. Type that into Google. Then type in "LeBron James 2018" Then do your search.

I don't like Kyrie Irving, but I recognize his current basketball talent and won't pretend that his massive on court talent is not going to eventually protect him here for this scandal.

I don't like LeBron James, and while I understand why many are criticizing Irving, LBJ should be the very last person to talk.

I'll leave that issue exactly there.

 

[BassNBrew]

LeBron came out with a pretty strong statement condemning Kyrie last night, which is what a lot of people wanted to hear from Durant.

Take what Kyrie Irving is accused of doing. Type that into Google. Then type in "LeBron James 2018" Then do your search.

I don't like Kyrie Irving, but I recognize his current basketball talent and won't pretend that his massive on court talent is not going to eventually protect him here for this scandal.

I don't like LeBron James, and while I understand why many are criticizing Irving, LBJ should be the very last person to talk.

I'll leave that issue exactly there.

Going to disagree with you here...not a LeBron fan either.

1) For better or worse, Lebron is the face of the league until he retires. It's good that he spoke up.
2) James did apologize quickly for his remark. Speaking up here further legitimizes that apology and shows he learn from his mistake.

That said, I agree with you about Irving and I appreciate the salary cap schooling.

 

[General Malaise]

brokelyn is probably better without kyrie makes the ball move more freely and puts in guys who will play better d take that to the bank bromigos

What in the entire world are you talking about here? The ball moves better when you have elite level gravity on the floor. It's more than just the willingness to pass the ball. Pass the ball to whom now? To Durant so he can try to score while being bracketed in triple coverage? It's not just passing the ball, it's being purposeful with the ball to create a high percentage shot. Irving was a walking bucket. He is the perpetual high percentage shot. Without Irving, the Nets have to ask role players to expand beyond their practical capabilities to just win regular season games. You can do that for short stretches, but you can't ask a team to do that all season and expect to have massive success on the floor.

Granted it's just one game, but last night without Kyrie the Nets had their season high in assists (32 vs. an average this year of 25) and shooting percentage (55.6% vs. an average of 48.9%). And yes the Wizards are bad defensively, but still.

Wizards defended Philly just fine.

Knicks too.

 

[Ghost Rider]

The defending of Irving here is bizarre. Even as a basketball player, he is highly overrated. Except for when he played with LeBron James, who was the clear leader of that team, every situation has been worse than projected when he was there/playing. The Cavs with Irving stunk before James came back. The Celtics were and have been better without him. The Nets have won one playoff series in three years with Durant and Irving. He is becoming not worth the hassle.

 

[SWC]

He is becoming not worth the hassle.

in my opinion and maybe he will prove me wrong yet but he isnt now and hasnt been for quite a while take that to the bank brohan

 

[thecatch]

Harrison Barnes has been truly awful this year. I’m not sure what happened; he looks like he aged 5 years over the course of the offseason.

 

[Major]

Does anyone know what exactly bol bol did to play like this?

Conditioning work over the summer? Specific skills work with some trainers? Hypnotherapy?

I don't think he was given a real chance in Denver being stuck behind Jokic. Probably has a chip on his shoulder and something to prove. I hope he continues to develop and improve his game. Would make a nice tandem with Banchero.

I used to love when his Dad would jack up those 3s. Great moment in NBA history: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45czWPhWQOI

 

[Long Ball Larry]

Does anyone know what exactly bol bol did to play like this?

Conditioning work over the summer? Specific skills work with some trainers? Hypnotherapy?

I don't think he was given a real chance in Denver being stuck behind Jokic. Probably has a chip on his shoulder and something to prove. I hope he continues to develop and improve his game. Would make a nice tandem with Banchero.

I used to love when his Dad would jack up those 3s. Great moment in NBA history: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45czWPhWQOI

Behind the back dribble into a step back 3 and gets fouled. Jesus.

I guess it is just playing with more energy and confidence and being in a place like Orlando where he can really just play with no expectations. And besides being behind Jokic, it is tough to develop on a team with win now aspirations when you are that raw. It looks like his arms might be a little more defined but I’m not sure and you still can’t see him when he turns sideways

 

[General Malaise]

The defending of Irving here is bizarre. Even as a basketball player, he is highly overrated. Except for when he played with LeBron James, who was the clear leader of that team, every situation has been worse than projected when he was there/playing. The Cavs with Irving stunk before James came back. The Celtics were and have been better without him. The Nets have won one playoff series in three years with Durant and Irving. He is becoming not worth the hassle.

If Kyrie is peddling Holocaust denial trash he is indefensible and the NBA should kick him out. Forget talent, this is a moral taboo that should end his career.

 

[Major]

With 7 wins banked the Jazz may have already blown their chance at getting the best odds for the top pick. Crazy how good they have been.

It's refreshing seeing a team void of any real stars play dominant team ball. Hope they continue to outperform. I've definitely grown tired of this top heavy, get 2-3 superstars and see what happens formula.

 

[mr. furley]

how are people not Lebron fans?

i may never understand passionate anti-Lebron fans of the NBA.

 

[Beef Ravioli Part 2]

how are people not Lebron fans?

i may never understand passionate anti-Lebron fans of the NBA.

Sarcasm?

 

[mr. furley]

how are people not Lebron fans?

i may never understand passionate anti-Lebron fans of the NBA.

Sarcasm?

by me? no.

 

[Beef Ravioli Part 2]

how are people not Lebron fans?

i may never understand passionate anti-Lebron fans of the NBA.

Sarcasm?

by me? no.

Yes, you. Obviously a great talent, an all time great, but his personality and desire to always be noticed drives me nuts. I’ll be glad when he goes away but I’m sure he will find a way to stay in the way of cameras.

 

[GordonGekko]

The defending of Irving here is bizarre. Even as a basketball player, he is highly overrated. ....

Defending what exactly?

What I'm seeing here is many people ( not all but many) are conflating their negative feelings/emotions regarding Kyrie Irving (mostly from his off court behaviors/actions/statements/choices) and are mixing that into his actual production value/projectible value/established skill set on the court.

Davis Bertans, Mavericks Actual salary: $16.0 million

Tobias Harris, 76ers Actual salary: $37.6 million

Russell Westbrook, Lakers $47.1 million

Your "value" in the NBA is dependent on what you can currently produce to help your team win basketball games against your contract length and it's AAV (Annual Average Value)

Bertans is a bad contract. He's a one dimensional long range gunner who has been grossly overpaid. However if he was on a 2 year, 8 million dollar contract, with the 2nd year as a team option, then he suddenly becomes a possible bargain. A matchup dependent reliable three point specialist you can use in specific spots during game flow. For 16 million, that's obscene. For the vets minimum or something like 4 million, on a short term deal, that's not so bad at all.

Tobias Harris can do enough to help a team win basketball games. He is also grossly overpaid to league market values. He's more than one dimensional, but if he was paid 16 million a year and expiring instead of close to 38 million a year, the perspective on him totally changes.

If RWB was at the point of his career where he was a journeyman free agent, looking to ring chase, for the grand sum of 1.7 million in cash from any contender that could use 10 good minutes a night of limited offense from someone with lots of playoff experience and game experience, he starts to appear entirely different.


Does Irving still have the talent level to help some team, particularly some contender? Yes. He can easily be a 20 minutes a guy who consistently creates a threat to score 20 points from the bench. Literally by himself. The four other guys could just play defense and become spot up shooters. Not some flash in the pan, but an established consistent All Star in terms of pure offensive pedigree and proven production. Will that value be mitigated by possible contract length and AAV? Of course.

But for some here to assess that Irving's career is plainly over without any choice of his own, given how rare his skill set actually becomes in the modern NBA, is not reality. You can call him "overrated", but like Bertans, RWB and Tobias Harris, there is a price point/contract length where the situation turns from toxic/troublesome/burdensome to pure bargain.

I'm separating Irving the person and his actions off the court AWAY from Irving the basketball player.

What's "bizarre" is that I'm basically the only person right now currently in this thread saying Irving, strictly assessing his worth as an actual functional basketball player, should be judged on what Irving has shown as an actual functional basketball player ON THE COURT.

Michael Vick played 6 seasons before he was banished, suspended, imprisoned and out of football for two whole years before he played another 7 seasons in the NFL. Three of those as a full time starter. And for three different franchises. I said it before and I'll say it again, Vick had a longer career AFTER his big scandal than before it. And much of that was because QB1 is a coveted and hard to fill position in the NFL. Just like finding an established All Star level offensive engine is a coveted and hard to fill position in the modern NBA.

I don't see a single person here talking about the specific decline in Irving's skill set or the sudden influx of pure shot creators across the league that makes Irving so expendable, as some here are pushing.

From a pure player standpoint, for practical functional basketball, what specifically is wrong with Irving that he can't contribute to a modern NBA team winning on the court? That's not a rhetorical, I'm asking you and but also everyone else here who keeps talking about Irving's off the court problems as a means to shade down on his actual NBA skill set.

 

[mr. furley]

how are people not Lebron fans?

i may never understand passionate anti-Lebron fans of the NBA.

Sarcasm?

by me? no.

Yes, you. Obviously a great talent, an all time great, but his personality and desire to always be noticed drives me nuts. I’ll be glad when he goes away but I’m sure he will find a way to stay in the way of cameras.

his personality and desire to always be noticed?

you mean how he has never been involved in any controversy at all, and sometimes posts instagram stories that you can easily avoid by not looking at them?

i know a few people who automatically hate the best, most famous people in any walk of life. never any reason reason for it. but they are vehemently anti Lebron, Tom Brady, whoever is good in baseball, etc. it's weird. very weird. says a lot more about them than the people they hate for no reason, imo.

 

[Capella]

Desire to be noticed lol. He’s one of the 3 greatest players of all-time and he ain’t number 3. I’m pretty sure he gets noticed.

 

[Beef Ravioli Part 2]

how are people not Lebron fans?

i may never understand passionate anti-Lebron fans of the NBA.

Sarcasm?

by me? no.

Yes, you. Obviously a great talent, an all time great, but his personality and desire to always be noticed drives me nuts. I’ll be glad when he goes away but I’m sure he will find a way to stay in the way of cameras.

his personality and desire to always be noticed?

you mean how he has never been involved in any controversy at all, and sometimes posts instagram stories that you can easily avoid by not looking at them?

i know a few people who automatically hate the best, most famous people in any walk of life. never any reason reason for it. but they are vehemently anti Lebron, Tom Brady, whoever is good in baseball, etc. it's weird. very weird. says a lot more about them than the people they hate for no reason, imo.

Yeah, that’s not me. I didn’t accuse him of doing anything controversial. Not calling him a racist or saying he is an awful person. I have never read one of his Instagram posts. I try to avoid him if I can. I already admitted he is an all time great. I just don’t care to hear from him.

I like Tom Brady, but do not particularly care for Aaron Rogers.

I like Aaron Judge, but do not particularly care for Trevor Bauer.

 

[thecatch]

Anybody in a front office who didn’t have Banchero as the #1 prospect in this class with a bullet should be fired. He’s a total monster.

 

[General Malaise]

Desire to be noticed lol. He’s one of the 3 greatest players of all-time and he ain’t number 3. I’m pretty sure he gets noticed.

Also not a flat-earth, anti-vax Holocaust denier, so aces in my book.

 

[Frostillicus]

Desire to be noticed lol. He’s one of the 3 greatest players of all-time and he ain’t number 3. I’m pretty sure he gets noticed.

Also not a flat-earth, anti-vax Holocaust denier, so aces in my book.

And can create his own shot!

 

[Long Ball Larry]

What a tremendous season for the magic. Banchero showing he was worth the pick, other young guys developing and keeping things exciting and still losing a ton of games. So great.

 

[SWC]

how are people not Lebron fans?

i may never understand passionate anti-Lebron fans of the NBA.

Sarcasm?

by me? no.

Yes, you. Obviously a great talent, an all time great, but his personality and desire to always be noticed drives me nuts. I’ll be glad when he goes away but I’m sure he will find a way to stay in the way of cameras.

his personality and desire to always be noticed?

you mean how he has never been involved in any controversy at all, and sometimes posts instagram stories that you can easily avoid by not looking at them?

i know a few people who automatically hate the best, most famous people in any walk of life. never any reason reason for it. but they are vehemently anti Lebron, Tom Brady, whoever is good in baseball, etc. it's weird. very weird. says a lot more about them than the people they hate for no reason, imo.

Yeah, that’s not me. I didn’t accuse him of doing anything controversial. Not calling him a racist or saying he is an awful person. I have never read one of his Instagram posts. I try to avoid him if I can. I already admitted he is an all time great. I just don’t care to hear from him.

I like Tom Brady, but do not particularly care for Aaron Rogers.

I like Aaron Judge, but do not particularly care for Trevor Bauer.

i feel like we all know beef ravioli part 2 a little more now and that is what this place is all about take that to the bank brohans

 

[BassNBrew]

I don't see a single person here talking about the specific decline in Irving's skill set or the sudden influx of pure shot creators across the league that makes Irving so expendable, as some here are pushing.

From a pure player standpoint, for practical functional basketball, what specifically is wrong with Irving that he can't contribute to a modern NBA team winning on the court? That's not a rhetorical, I'm asking you and but also everyone else here who keeps talking about Irving's off the court problems as a means to shade down on his actual NBA skill set.

I would say the argument is the results his team's are posting, not his stats. Is that Kyrie's fault? I'll leave that to the basketball experts to dissect.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

Per shams:

Sources: Nets have delivered Kyrie Irving six items he must complete to return to team:

- Apologize/condemn movie
- $500K donation to anti-hate causes
- Sensitivity training
- Antisemitic training
- Meet with ADL, Jewish leaders
- Meet with Joe Tsai to demonstrate understanding

 

[BassNBrew]

how are people not Lebron fans?

i may never understand passionate anti-Lebron fans of the NBA.

Not a fan of the Super Team Era he ushered in.