2024-25 NBA Thread: “we simply must acquire another top-5 player for next year” Laker GM says after game (28 Viewers)

[Anarchy99]

And you wanna minimize what Jaylen Brown did (for whatever reason), but he didn't win Conference Finals and Finals MVP by accident.

There's no doubt Brown played well, but the offense ran through Tatum in the playoffs. He frequently got double and triple teamed, which allowed Brown (and everyone else) to get clean looks and get single covered. Tatum was the first player in the Finals to lead his team in points, rebounds, and assistants and NOT win Finals MVP. He was one assist away from having done that in the ECF as well. Brown had more memorable and opportune moments (ie, thunderous dunks and rejections and obviously the big shot against IND). Not a huge difference, but even with more defenders to deal with, Tatum averaged +1.1 ppg, +3.8 rebounds, and +3.0 assists in the postseason compared to Brown. Tatum didn't shoot well from 3 (28%) . . . but Brown didn't exactly light it up either (32%). Yeah, I get it Tatum didn't shoot well, but he still managed to play well in other areas. Good for Brown being Finals and ECF MVP. He played well. All I care is they won. As a side note, I heard that the former basketball players that had MVP votes all voted for Tatum and all the other voters that didn't play but were reporters or media members voted for Brown (and they outnumbered the former players).

As for giving too much credit to Tatum for BOS winning, plenty of other guys on the list I posted eventually played with other all-time greats. Magic had Kareem and Worthy. Kobe had Shaq. LeBron had Allen and Bosh . . . or Kyrie . . . or AD. And if you re-read with what I posted, I was comparing what Tatum has done so far to what all those other players had done at the same age. We can check in in 10 years and see how his career ends up. If he ends up with 8 first team All-NBA selections and 5 titles, will people still say he was only a good player? I am not suggesting that's what will happen, but he could end up with multiple rings, great career statistics, and other accolades. Or he could flame out and maybe we've seen all we are going to see from him.

 

[the moops]

But comparing him to what Luka had to do this postseason?

Regular season Luka
33.9 points, 9.2 rebounds, 9.2 assists, .617 TS%

Postseason Luka
28.9 points, 9.5 rebounds, 8.1 assists, .556 TS%

Regular season Tatum
26.9 points, 8.1 rebounds, 4.9 assists, .604 TS%

Postseason Tatum
25.0 points, 9.7 rebounds, 6.3 assists, .549 TS%

They both shot like **** in the playoffs. Tatum rebounded like a maniac and upped his assists per game by 1.5

 

[scoobus]

And you wanna minimize what Jaylen Brown did (for whatever reason), but he didn't win Conference Finals and Finals MVP by accident.

There's no doubt Brown played well, but the offense ran through Tatum in the playoffs. He frequently got double and triple teamed, which allowed Brown (and everyone else) to get clean looks and get single covered. Tatum was the first player in the Finals to lead his team in points, rebounds, and assistants and NOT win Finals MVP. He was one assist away from having done that in the ECF as well. Brown had more memorable and opportune moments (ie, thunderous dunks and rejections and obviously the big shot against IND). Not a huge difference, but even with more defenders to deal with, Tatum averaged +1.1 ppg, +3.8 rebounds, and +3.0 assists in the postseason compared to Brown. Tatum didn't shoot well from 3 (28%) . . . but Brown didn't exactly light it up either (32%). Yeah, I get it Tatum didn't shoot well, but he still managed to play well in other areas. Good for Brown being Finals and ECF MVP. He played well. All I care is they won. As a side note, I heard that the former basketball players that had MVP votes all voted for Tatum and all the other voters that didn't play but were reporters or media members voted for Brown (and they outnumbered the former players).

As for giving too much credit to Tatum for BOS winning, plenty of other guys on the list I posted eventually played with other all-time greats. Magic had Kareem and Worthy. Kobe had Shaq. LeBron had Allen and Bosh . . . or Kyrie . . . or AD. And if you re-read with what I posted, I was comparing what Tatum has done so far to what all those other players had done at the same age. We can check in in 10 years and see how his career ends up. If he ends up with 8 first team All-NBA selections and 5 titles, will people still say he was only a good player? I am not suggesting that's what will happen, but he could end up with multiple rings, great career statistics, and other accolades. Or he could flame out and maybe we've seen all we are going to see from him.

He was very mediocre IMO (in regards to his normal play of course), they won because they had a great team, not because he stepped up and went above and beyond.

Again, this is where the pushback is, at least from me. You're comparing him to players he has no business being compared to, at least at this stage of his career. If you can watch LeBron and Kobe and Magic (and a host of other all-time greats), and then watch Tatum and see comparable players, then again we'll just have to agree to completely disagree. His first-team selections are impressive thus far, and a big testament to how much he's been able to play which he absolutely deserves credit for, but he is still not and never has been (again, IMO) been a top 5 player in the league. And titles are a team accomplishment. Now if he goes on a Dirk-esque title run, or Kawhi-esque, or even Jimmy Butler from last year, then that of course which change my opinion of him as an individual player.

 

[scoobus]

But comparing him to what Luka had to do this postseason?

Regular season Luka
33.9 points, 9.2 rebounds, 9.2 assists, .617 TS%

Postseason Luka
28.9 points, 9.5 rebounds, 8.1 assists, .556 TS%

Regular season Tatum
26.9 points, 8.1 rebounds, 4.9 assists, .604 TS%

Postseason Tatum
25.0 points, 9.7 rebounds, 6.3 assists, .549 TS%

They both shot like **** in the playoffs. Tatum rebounded like a maniac and upped his assists per game by 1.5

There was comically more on Luka's plate than Tatum's, even disregarding the quality of teams the two played. And Tatum's rebound and assist rates were essentially the same, his minutes just went up.

I'll pose the question to you since Anarchy didn't answer it, how far do you think the Celtics and Mavs get respectively if those two swap teams?

 

[Anarchy99]

I'll pose the question to you since Anarchy didn't answer it, how far do you think the Celtics and Mavs get respectively if those two swap teams?

We only know what actually happened. Anything else is total guesswork. I know you think Boston with Luka would have won anyway. I'm not as sure as you are. We know the Celtics system and defensive philosophy worked with the roster they assembled. Their offense with Luka would likely have been as good (although Luka would have to distribute the ball more). The C's love a drive and kick offense, while Luka is more of a ball dominant player who runs down the clock and then tries to find someone that's open if he doesn't get a good look or matchup. That's a different approach than what the Celtics run. But defensively, I am not sure Doncic would fit what Boston has strived to get to (5 or 6 guys that each can defend anyone on the court without switching). If Luka played defense like he did in the Finals, the Celtics may not have won if they faced the Mavs with Tatum. Tatum isn't exactly the best fit for switching spots with Luka either. Both players seem to fit their current teams better than if they switched uniforms. Would the Luka led Celtics have a better chance to beat a Tatum led Mavs squad? Probably. But who knows how the season would have gone with that configuration and if they would have met in the Finals.

 

[massraider]

and what is really dumb about this argument is everyone wants to pull a guy out of their prime back in the day and put them against a guy in their prime from today and ignore how much training weight work speed and agility work access to video of other players aau playing against the best as a youth has changed since back then just think if you took wilt chamberlain and gave him todays training and youth experience what he would be like today he would be so dominant it would make our heads spin but you cant do that and that is why these types of analysis are stupid you have to look at a player versus their contemporaries and determine their level of greatness take that to the bank bromigos

Tell you what, even if you pull that guy out of back in the day and give them the weight training and speed and agility training, and coaching and travel teams..........it's still a stupid argument.

 

[thecatch]

1992 looks better on paper than what it actually was. Bird and Magic were almost done. It’d be like CP3 being on this team - sure he’s an all-time great, but not right now. Maybe Jordan keeps things close but 2024 should win easily. Not even that close. The 1992 team was all fun, they didn’t even really have to try to figure out how to play as a team or anything like that, they just steamrolled everyone because the talent gap was so massive. Listing out their average margin of victory is irrelevant.

A lot of the best players on this team are well past their prime, too. Bird and Magic were washed but the 1992 team had a ton of all time players at their peaks.

 

[Capella]

Wow Germany is beating France like its 194[deletes joke]

 

[Brunell4MVP]

The 100th best basketball player today is better physically and skill wise as the best basketball player of 40 year ago. It's not an opinion. It's a fact. People get stronger, faster, taller, better.

I am all about the today's athletes are better at just about everything but this is taking it too far.

The 100th best basketball player today is someone like Austin Reaves, or Bruce Brown, or Naz Reid. or really any number of guys. But none of those guys are more skilled or physically as dominant as Michael Jordan or Hakeem or Magic or any number of top players from back in the day.

There are like 28 teams. So it's like the 4th best player on the best team. Yeah, I'll go with they would be better than Bird or even Jordan one on one. You don't think Jrue Holliday could take Bird? I do. He's stronger. He's faster. He probably even shoots better. And I am a huge Bird fan. Huge. Heck, the worst PG in the league is likely better than Oscar Robertson. He's slow. He couldn't jump. But in his day he was a beast.

 

[Major]

And you wanna minimize what Jaylen Brown did (for whatever reason), but he didn't win Conference Finals and Finals MVP by accident.

There's no doubt Brown played well, but the offense ran through Tatum in the playoffs. He frequently got double and triple teamed, which allowed Brown (and everyone else) to get clean looks and get single covered. Tatum was the first player in the Finals to lead his team in points, rebounds, and assistants and NOT win Finals MVP. He was one assist away from having done that in the ECF as well. Brown had more memorable and opportune moments (ie, thunderous dunks and rejections and obviously the big shot against IND). Not a huge difference, but even with more defenders to deal with, Tatum averaged +1.1 ppg, +3.8 rebounds, and +3.0 assists in the postseason compared to Brown. Tatum didn't shoot well from 3 (28%) . . . but Brown didn't exactly light it up either (32%). Yeah, I get it Tatum didn't shoot well, but he still managed to play well in other areas. Good for Brown being Finals and ECF MVP. He played well. All I care is they won. As a side note, I heard that the former basketball players that had MVP votes all voted for Tatum and all the other voters that didn't play but were reporters or media members voted for Brown (and they outnumbered the former players).

As for giving too much credit to Tatum for BOS winning, plenty of other guys on the list I posted eventually played with other all-time greats. Magic had Kareem and Worthy. Kobe had Shaq. LeBron had Allen and Bosh . . . or Kyrie . . . or AD. And if you re-read with what I posted, I was comparing what Tatum has done so far to what all those other players had done at the same age. We can check in in 10 years and see how his career ends up. If he ends up with 8 first team All-NBA selections and 5 titles, will people still say he was only a good player? I am not suggesting that's what will happen, but he could end up with multiple rings, great career statistics, and other accolades. Or he could flame out and maybe we've seen all we are going to see from him.

He was very mediocre IMO (in regards to his normal play of course), they won because they had a great team, not because he stepped up and went above and beyond.

Again, this is where the pushback is, at least from me. You're comparing him to players he has no business being compared to, at least at this stage of his career. If you can watch LeBron and Kobe and Magic (and a host of other all-time greats), and then watch Tatum and see comparable players, then again we'll just have to agree to completely disagree. His first-team selections are impressive thus far, and a big testament to how much he's been able to play which he absolutely deserves credit for, but he is still not and never has been (again, IMO) been a top 5 player in the league. And titles are a team accomplishment. Now if he goes on a Dirk-esque title run, or Kawhi-esque, or even Jimmy Butler from last year, then that of course which change my opinion of him as an individual player.

He really has to stop disappearing when it matters most. Definitely has a James Harden gene in him. If it wasn't for Holiday's leadership and Brown's testicular fortitude, the Celtics don't win that series.

 

[the moops]

The 100th best basketball player today is better physically and skill wise as the best basketball player of 40 year ago. It's not an opinion. It's a fact. People get stronger, faster, taller, better.

I am all about the today's athletes are better at just about everything but this is taking it too far.

The 100th best basketball player today is someone like Austin Reaves, or Bruce Brown, or Naz Reid. or really any number of guys. But none of those guys are more skilled or physically as dominant as Michael Jordan or Hakeem or Magic or any number of top players from back in the day.

There are like 28 teams. So it's like the 4th best player on the best team. Yeah, I'll go with they would be better than Bird or even Jordan one on one. You don't think Jrue Holliday could take Bird? I do. He's stronger. He's faster. He probably even shoots better. And I am a huge Bird fan. Huge. Heck, the worst PG in the league is likely better than Oscar Robertson. He's slow. He couldn't jump. But in his day he was a beast.

Jrue Holiday is like the 40th best player in the league. He is incredible.

Jordan and Bird would smoke him though

 

[scoobus]

I'll pose the question to you since Anarchy didn't answer it, how far do you think the Celtics and Mavs get respectively if those two swap teams?

We only know what actually happened. Anything else is total guesswork. I know you think Boston with Luka would have won anyway. I'm not as sure as you are. We know the Celtics system and defensive philosophy worked with the roster they assembled. Their offense with Luka would likely have been as good (although Luka would have to distribute the ball more). The C's love a drive and kick offense, while Luka is more of a ball dominant player who runs down the clock and then tries to find someone that's open if he doesn't get a good look or matchup. That's a different approach than what the Celtics run. But defensively, I am not sure Doncic would fit what Boston has strived to get to (5 or 6 guys that each can defend anyone on the court without switching). If Luka played defense like he did in the Finals, the Celtics may not have won if they faced the Mavs with Tatum. Tatum isn't exactly the best fit for switching spots with Luka either. Both players seem to fit their current teams better than if they switched uniforms. Would the Luka led Celtics have a better chance to beat a Tatum led Mavs squad? Probably. But who knows how the season would have gone with that configuration and if they would have met in the Finals.

My point is more that Tatum on that team doesn't even sniff the finals.

 

[the moops]

He really has to stop disappearing when it matters most.

He put up 25/10/6 in the playoffs. He didn't shoot well but he definitely didn't disappear

 

[Spartans Rule]

My point is more that Tatum on that team doesn't even sniff the finals.

Yeah, there's an argument that the current Celtics are better with Tatum than Doncic. I'm not 100% sure I agree, but I definitely see the logic as far as his versatility and defense.

But I can't see any way the Mavs are better with Tatum. He can't carry the kind of offensive burden Doncic does, and the team as constructed needs that. Dallas was only 4 wins above the 10 seed so I don't think you can assume that version of them would even get out of the play-in.

 

[Major]

He really has to stop disappearing when it matters most.

He put up 25/10/6 in the playoffs. He didn't shoot well but he definitely didn't disappear

Meh, stats don't tell the whole story. Watch the games. When things get tight, he goes ghost.

 

[Anarchy99]

He really has to stop disappearing when it matters most.

He put up 25/10/6 in the playoffs. He didn't shoot well but he definitely didn't disappear

Meh, stats don't tell the whole story. Watch the games. When things get tight, he goes ghost.

In the 7 games and 40 total minutes of "close games" this postseason (last 5 minutes and OT), Tatum only shot 8 for 24 (33%), but still got to the line a lot. In those 40 minutes, he scored 28 points with 9 rebounds and 3 assists. Does that make him a ghost? Was he a ghost in 2022 when he scored 46 on the road in MIL in a Game 6 elimination game playing with a fracture in his wrist? How about last year when he scored 51 against the Sixers in Game 7? I have no problem with people saying that he is a little inconsistent or is too inefficient. But to say he disappears all the time in big games or big moments isn't accurate. I don't remember the exact stat, but Tatum in the playoffs over the past 5 years made twice as many late game clutch shots in the playoffs than any other player. There's probably more to it than that (like BOS played way more games than other teams so he had more opportunities), but he still overall scored a lot of late game points.

 

[the moops]

I am hardly a huge Tatum fan. I think the criticism of him is generally unfounded for he does a lot of other stuff to help winning. His defense is at times all worldly, he rebounds very well, sets up teammates, and gets to the line.

 

[Zow]

I would argue the 1992 dream team is >>>>>>>>> infinity better than the current team on both of those. I personally find the current team extremely weak of mind and a bunch of complainers. they are soft and Jordan who I can barely can stand would absolutely be in their head within 5 seconds. If a team like Germany or Canada gets them down 8+ points, I could see them melting faster than an ice cream in the Sahara

Don't you have some kid on your lawn to go yell at?

 

[the moops]

I would argue the 1992 dream team is >>>>>>>>> infinity better than the current team on both of those. I personally find the current team extremely weak of mind and a bunch of complainers. they are soft and Jordan who I can barely can stand would absolutely be in their head within 5 seconds. If a team like Germany or Canada gets them down 8+ points, I could see them melting faster than an ice cream in the Sahara

Don't you have some kid on your lawn to go yell at?

Exactly.
Also the Dream Team was incredible. But they played against such weaker competition.

 

[AAABatteries]

I really don't get how many people pile on Tatum.

It's pretty simple:

• Duke is one of the most hated basketball teams
• Boston is one of the most hated basketball teams
• He has been/is one of the best players on his teams - teams that are hated
• He's one of the biggest whiners in the NBA

 

[msudaisy26]

I really don't get how many people pile on Tatum.

It's pretty simple:

• Duke is one of the most hated basketball teams
• Boston is one of the most hated basketball teams
• He has been/is one of the best players on his teams - teams that are hated
• He's one of the biggest whiners in the NBA

He seemed to tone his whining down this year in the playoffs. Maybe it was because they were winning.

 

[offdee]

I really don't get how many people pile on Tatum.

It's pretty simple:

• Duke is one of the most hated basketball teams
• Boston is one of the most hated basketball teams
• He has been/is one of the best players on his teams - teams that are hated
• He's one of the biggest whiners in the NBA

And he also practices and choreographs his title winning celebrations.

We did it. WEE DIIIIID IIIIIIIITTTT!

 

[SayWhat?]

ANT

 

[trader jake]

ANT

Ant had some great highlight plays today against Puerto Rico, but he has to make quicker decisions when he gets the ball. Too often the movement come to a stop when it gets to him, losing the advantages created by others.

Also, Bam and the Brow over Embiid. Two players play tough defense, hustle for loose balls, and cut all game long while Embiid is a step slow watching after a rebound bounces off the rim on defense and floats on offense a lot.

 

[Major]

I really don't get how many people pile on Tatum.

It's pretty simple:

• Duke is one of the most hated basketball teams
• Boston is one of the most hated basketball teams
• He has been/is one of the best players on his teams - teams that are hated
• He's one of the biggest whiners in the NBA

None of these have an effect on me. I like Boston and have grown accustomed to whining watching soccer over the past 40 years. I just think he's overrated and that the Top 5 talk is comical. Top 5 players want the ball in the clutch. I'd put him in the 12-15 range next to Jaylen.

 

[the moops]

Top 5 players want the ball in the clutch.

He definitely wants the ball in those situations and definitely takes shots in those situations. He struggled mightily this past year, but in the previous 5 years he was among the best.

He is clearly a top 10 player (most likely top 6) in the NBA and anyone arguing otherwise is ludicrous

 

[Anarchy99]

I just think he's overrated and that the Top 5 talk is comical. Top 5 players want the ball in the clutch. I'd put him in the 12-15 range next to Jaylen.

People will have different opinions and perspectives about Tatum. I don't love him as a player. I hate Duke, I hate that he yaps at the refs all the time. I hate his dribble out the shot clock and do a side step 3 that rarely goes in. But at the end of the day, he gets the job done.

Here are the only 10 players that have scored 6,000+ points over the past three seasons (including playoffs).
Player, Total Points, True Shooting%, Points, Rebounds, Assists, +/-

Tatum: 7891 (59.0) 27.5-8.4-4.9 (+2079)
Doncic: 7465 (59.5) 31.3-9.1-8.6 (+721)
Jokic: 6878 (66.2) 26.6-12.8-8.9 (+1902)
Giannis: 6633 (56.8) 30.4-11.8-6.1(+1140)
Brown: 6414 (57.9) 24.1-6.2-3.5 (+1325)
Edwards: 6278 (57.1) 24.4-5.4-4.6 (+750)
Embiid: 6262 (63.1) 31.6-10.9-4.3 (+1126)
Brunson: 6245 (58.5) 23.5-3.8-5.8 (+954)
Curry: 6232 (61.9) 27.2-5.2-5.9 (+1132)
SGA: 6062 (61.0) 29.0-5.2-5.9 (+556)

If the goal of players is to be available / healthy, win a lot of games, and put up decent numbers, Tatum checks all those boxes. If people want to say that's all a mirage, he's inefficient, he crumbles in big moments, and his teammates are why Boston wins, so be it.

 

[scoobus]

Top 5 players want the ball in the clutch.

He definitely wants the ball in those situations and definitely takes shots in those situations. He struggled mightily this past year, but in the previous 5 years he was among the best.

He is clearly a top 10 player (most likely top 6) in the NBA and anyone arguing otherwise is ludicrous

Hell nah. List your top 10.

 

[msudaisy26]

I really don't get how many people pile on Tatum.

It's pretty simple:

• Duke is one of the most hated basketball teams
• Boston is one of the most hated basketball teams
• He has been/is one of the best players on his teams - teams that are hated
• He's one of the biggest whiners in the NBA

None of these have an effect on me. I like Boston and have grown accustomed to whining watching soccer over the past 40 years. I just think he's overrated and that the Top 5 talk is comical. Top 5 players want the ball in the clutch. I'd put him in the 12-15 range next to Jaylen.

This feels like recency bias because Brown had a great playoff this year. Most of the world that follows the NBA thought Brown was overrated and paid after his last couple years in the playoffs.

 

[scoobus]

Top 5 players want the ball in the clutch.

He definitely wants the ball in those situations and definitely takes shots in those situations. He struggled mightily this past year, but in the previous 5 years he was among the best.

He is clearly a top 10 player (most likely top 6) in the NBA and anyone arguing otherwise is ludicrous

Hell nah. List your top 10.

Although I feel like we've probably argued this Tatum thing out haha.

 

[Major]

Top 5 players want the ball in the clutch.

He definitely wants the ball in those situations and definitely takes shots in those situations. He struggled mightily this past year, but in the previous 5 years he was among the best.

He is clearly a top 10 player (most likely top 6) in the NBA and anyone arguing otherwise is ludicrous

Hell nah. List your top 10.

I wouldn't pay much attention to his cute little lists. He didn't have Edwards in his Top 10 last time I checked

 

[Yo Mama]

Men’s Olympic basketball knockout matchups are set.

Germany vs Greece
Canada vs France

Serbia vs Australia
USA vs Brazil

 

[Capella]

Canada vs France

Banger. Wow.

 

[the moops]

Top 5 players want the ball in the clutch.

He definitely wants the ball in those situations and definitely takes shots in those situations. He struggled mightily this past year, but in the previous 5 years he was among the best.

He is clearly a top 10 player (most likely top 6) in the NBA and anyone arguing otherwise is ludicrous

Hell nah. List your top 10.

Not in any order

Jokic
Giannis
Luka
Tatum
Embiid
SGA
Durant
Embiid
Curry
Lebron

 

[the moops]

And just outside that 10 - again, no order
AD, Ant,, Kawhi (healthy), Zion (healthy), PG (healthy), Mitchell, Brunson, Butler, Dame

 

[msudaisy26]

Top 5 players want the ball in the clutch.

He definitely wants the ball in those situations and definitely takes shots in those situations. He struggled mightily this past year, but in the previous 5 years he was among the best.

He is clearly a top 10 player (most likely top 6) in the NBA and anyone arguing otherwise is ludicrous

Hell nah. List your top 10.

Not in any order

Jokic
Giannis
Luka
Tatum
Embiid
SGA
Durant
Embiid
Curry
Lebron

Embiid might not crack my top ten, is that why he is in your twice?

 

[Deamon]

Canada vs France

Banger. Wow.

Yep, stupid rule. Canada finished #3 and should play #6 Australia but there's a rule you can't play a team from your group again, so instead they're making us play #5 France. Brutal.

 

[scoobus]

And just outside that 10 - again, no order
AD, Ant,, Kawhi (healthy), Zion (healthy), PG (healthy), Mitchell, Brunson, Butler, Dame

I'd take your whole top 10 over Tatum, and several guys on this list as well (AD and Ant especially). I also feel like Bam, Booker, and Morant deserve to be in this group, especially over Zion, but we're nitpicking now.

Alright, no more Tatum talk!

 

[scoobus]

Oh and Wemby.

 

[Capella]

Canada vs France

Banger. Wow.

Yep, stupid rule. Canada finished #3 and should play #6 Australia but there's a rule you can't play a team from your group again, so instead they're making us play #5 France. Brutal.

Yes that’s rough. And then likely Germany in the semis. Meanwhile the US gets either Serbia again who’ve they beat twice or Australia.

 

[msudaisy26]

And just outside that 10 - again, no order
AD, Ant,, Kawhi (healthy), Zion (healthy), PG (healthy), Mitchell, Brunson, Butler, Dame

I'd take your whole top 10 over Tatum, and several guys on this list as well (AD and Ant especially). I also feel like Bam, Booker, and Morant deserve to be in this group, especially over Zion, but we're nitpicking now.

Alright, no more Tatum talk!

Those last 4 aren't on the same planet as Tatum.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

I think people are forgetting how good Ja was before the gun stuff.

 

[Capella]

And just outside that 10 - again, no order
AD, Ant,, Kawhi (healthy), Zion (healthy), PG (healthy), Mitchell, Brunson, Butler, Dame

I'd take your whole top 10 over Tatum, and several guys on this list as well (AD and Ant especially). I also feel like Bam, Booker, and Morant deserve to be in this group, especially over Zion, but we're nitpicking now.

Alright, no more Tatum talk!

Those last 4 aren't on the same planet as Tatum.

Brunson absolutely is. Not the other 3.

 

[msudaisy26]

And just outside that 10 - again, no order
AD, Ant,, Kawhi (healthy), Zion (healthy), PG (healthy), Mitchell, Brunson, Butler, Dame

I'd take your whole top 10 over Tatum, and several guys on this list as well (AD and Ant especially). I also feel like Bam, Booker, and Morant deserve to be in this group, especially over Zion, but we're nitpicking now.

Alright, no more Tatum talk!

Those last 4 aren't on the same planet as Tatum.

Brunson absolutely is. Not the other 3.

I meant the last 4 in the sentence. Morant, Booker, Bam and Zion.

 

[msudaisy26]

I think people are forgetting how good Ja was before the gun stuff.

And injuries. Just because you basically miss 2 years of basketball doesn't mean you come back the same. He has to work his way back into the conversation of top 10.

 

[Capella]

And just outside that 10 - again, no order
AD, Ant,, Kawhi (healthy), Zion (healthy), PG (healthy), Mitchell, Brunson, Butler, Dame

I'd take your whole top 10 over Tatum, and several guys on this list as well (AD and Ant especially). I also feel like Bam, Booker, and Morant deserve to be in this group, especially over Zion, but we're nitpicking now.

Alright, no more Tatum talk!

Those last 4 aren't on the same planet as Tatum.

Brunson absolutely is. Not the other 3.

I meant the last 4 in the sentence. Morant, Booker, Bam and Zion.

Ja is better than Tatum if his head is ever screwed in straight. IMO. Book is close too. The problem with evaluating Tatum is he’s never been on a team that wasn’t pretty good/loaded.

 

[msudaisy26]

And just outside that 10 - again, no order
AD, Ant,, Kawhi (healthy), Zion (healthy), PG (healthy), Mitchell, Brunson, Butler, Dame

I'd take your whole top 10 over Tatum, and several guys on this list as well (AD and Ant especially). I also feel like Bam, Booker, and Morant deserve to be in this group, especially over Zion, but we're nitpicking now.

Alright, no more Tatum talk!

Those last 4 aren't on the same planet as Tatum.

Brunson absolutely is. Not the other 3.

I meant the last 4 in the sentence. Morant, Booker, Bam and Zion.

Ja is better than Tatum if his head is ever screwed in straight. IMO. Book is close too. The problem with evaluating Tatum is he’s never been on a team that wasn’t pretty good/loaded.

We will have to agree to disagree. I think Ja is flashier, but I think Tatum is a much better all around player. You are right about Tatum being on a good team. He never has to carry a bad team. Do we knock him for that or does he get credit for being thr best player on a great team?

Maybe we will find out in a few years.

 

[Frostillicus]

Ja sucks

 

[Long Ball Larry]

Top 5 players want the ball in the clutch.

He definitely wants the ball in those situations and definitely takes shots in those situations. He struggled mightily this past year, but in the previous 5 years he was among the best.

He is clearly a top 10 player (most likely top 6) in the NBA and anyone arguing otherwise is ludicrous

Hell nah. List your top 10.

Not in any order

Jokic
Giannis
Luka
Tatum
Embiid
SGA
Durant
Embiid
Curry
Lebron

Embiid so good he makes the list twice

 

[trader jake]

Ja sucks

Ja Rules