2024-25 NBA Thread: OKC - Memphis series moved to Quibi (73 Viewers)

[Tau837]

It seems like Tatum is getting too much negativity. In 17 minutes, he had 4 points on 2/4 shooting, 5 rebounds, 2 assists, 1 block, 1 TO, and 1 foul. His +/- was -4, but Davis was -5 and Lebron was -7.

 

[the moops]

It seems like Tatum is getting too much negativity. In 17 minutes, he had 4 points on 2/4 shooting, 5 rebounds, 2 assists, 1 block, 1 TO, and 1 foul. His +/- was -4, but Davis was -5 and Lebron was -7.

Single game +/- isn't all that helpful. But agree a little bit. Tatum does other things to help winning, but his shot just looks awful right now. And when it is him or KD starting, well, his awful shooting looks even worse

 

[Anarchy99]

Tatum earning those starter minutes with a whopping 2 points. Top 5 NBA player imo.

Starters should be

Jrue, Ant, KD, Lebron, AD

Curry and Tatum have looked awful

The problem for Tatum has been he doesn't fit with the guys he's been playing with. With BOS, he is used to initiating the offense and driving and kicking, then getting a return pass or cutting to the basket. He also scores a lot in transition. For Team USA, there's no action and designed passing to get him the ball with a good matchup to set up the offense. They just have him camp out in the corner. With the other guys being ball dominant, he ends up standing around and watching a lot. In Paris, he is usually behind a fastbreak, so he doesn't see many easily baskets in transition. He's usually an above the break three-point shooter, and now they have him as a corner catch-and-shoot three guy (which is totally not his strong suit). He'd do better if they played him as a point forward (which is what LBJ has been doing a lot) . . . but they aren't going to have him do that and sit LeBron.

 

[Deamon]

It seems like Tatum is getting too much negativity

Not possible.

 

[Deamon]

Damn, this is wild. There will never be another team like it.

The DREAM TEAM went undefeated, winning by an average of 44 points without ever calling a single timeout.
Angola: 68
Lithuania: 51
Brazil: 44
Germany: 43
Spain: 41
Puerto Rico: 38
Croatia: 33 (Gold Medal Game)

 

[Capella]

There will never be another team like it.

I think historically this team is pretty close. Try to match them up with closest comp here.

Lebron and Jordan are close no matter who you prefer.
Durant and Bird close. I’d go Durant but whatever. Old men will prefer Bird.
Curry and Magic - sure Magic probably ranks higher but Curry is top-15 and maybe higher. Both changed the game dramatically in their own ways.
Embiid and Ewing - I prefer Ewing but again Embiid is a hall of famer.
Davis and Robinson - again two hall of famers. All hall of famers so far. These two are really close imo.
Tatum and Pippen - ok Scottie got this one but Tatum just did win a ring.
Bam and Robinson I guess? Admiral clearly better.
Booker and Clyde? By the time they’re done give me Book.
Ant and uhhh…Mullin? No real comp here. Ant also for me.
Chuck has no real comp.
Hali and Stockton - obviously Stockton but Hali has a lot of room to build a HOF career and I’d expect him to.
White, Jrue and Laettner no real comps.

I’m sure this will not be controversial at all.

 

[Deamon]

There will never be another team like it.

I think historically this team is pretty close. Try to match them up with closest comp here.

Lebron and Jordan are close no matter who you prefer.
Durant and Bird close. I’d go Durant but whatever. Old men will prefer Bird.
Curry and Magic - sure Magic probably ranks higher but Curry is top-15 and maybe higher. Both changed the game dramatically in their own ways.
Embiid and Ewing - I prefer Ewing but again Embiid is a hall of famer.
Davis and Robinson - again two hall of famers. All hall of famers so far. These two are really close imo.
Tatum and Pippen - ok Scottie got this one but Tatum just did win a ring.
Bam and Robinson I guess? Admiral clearly better.
Booker and Clyde? By the time they’re done give me Book.
Ant and uhhh…Mullin? No real comp here. Ant also for me.
Chuck has no real comp.
Hali and Stockton - obviously Stockton but Hali has a lot of room to build a HOF career and I’d expect him to.
White, Jrue and Laettner no real comps.

I’m sure this will not be controversial at all.

Is it just that all the other countries have caught up that much?

 

[Anarchy99]

Tatum and Pippen - ok Scottie got this one but Tatum just did win a ring.

I find this one interesting. These two were the same age (26) in 92 and 24. Pippen had just won back-to-back titles while Tatum just won for BOS. But Tatum has already had 3 first team All-NBA selections (Pippen made the second team that year and none before that). This would be Tatum's second Olympic Gold. Pippen went on to have a great career and win 4 more titles . . . and it seems like he's getting credit for that. Maybe in 20 years we will look back and think of Tatum as an all-time great (or maybe we won't) . . . who knows.

 

[Anarchy99]

Is it just that all the other countries have caught up that much?

Way earlier in the thread I posted some numbers on how many NBA players and years of experience guys had. IIRC, there are 10 times as many international players on the other teams now than there were in 1992. The question I posed was whether a guy that played a handful of games a few years ago in the NBA should really be that big a threat to a team stacked with a huge number of future HOFers. I suggested that this version of Team USA should have a margin of victory of around 25 points (compared to 44 ppg for the 92 team).

 

[the moops]

Is it just that all the other countries have caught up that much?

There were 6 active NBA players on other teams in 1992. There are like 41 this year

 

[nysfl2]

There will never be another team like it.

I think historically this team is pretty close. Try to match them up with closest comp here.

Lebron and Jordan are close no matter who you prefer.
Durant and Bird close. I’d go Durant but whatever. Old men will prefer Bird.
Curry and Magic - sure Magic probably ranks higher but Curry is top-15 and maybe higher. Both changed the game dramatically in their own ways.
Embiid and Ewing - I prefer Ewing but again Embiid is a hall of famer.
Davis and Robinson - again two hall of famers. All hall of famers so far. These two are really close imo.
Tatum and Pippen - ok Scottie got this one but Tatum just did win a ring.
Bam and Robinson I guess? Admiral clearly better.
Booker and Clyde? By the time they’re done give me Book.
Ant and uhhh…Mullin? No real comp here. Ant also for me.
Chuck has no real comp.
Hali and Stockton - obviously Stockton but Hali has a lot of room to build a HOF career and I’d expect him to.
White, Jrue and Laettner no real comps.

I’m sure this will not be controversial at all.

Robinson was awesome, but matching up against both Bam and AD would be tough

 

[Anarchy99]

Is it just that all the other countries have caught up that much?

There were 6 active NBA players on other teams in 1992. There are like 41 this year

IIRC, there were 69 players on the non-Team USA teams that had NBA experience this time around.

 

[Jayrod]

Tatum played really well. He missed one 3 off the side of the backboard and missed what would have been a tough put back. He played within the flow of the offense, played very good defense and rebounded really well. Curry was clearly the worst player for the US last game.

It's like you guys are either trolling or don't know much about the game of basketball. Let me know which it is so I can react accordingly.

 

[scoobus]

Tatum's best role on this team is clapping for LeBron and KD.

Or getting all the way to the rim and finishing when he does play.

 

[scoobus]

There will never be another team like it.

I think historically this team is pretty close. Try to match them up with closest comp here.

Lebron and Jordan are close no matter who you prefer.
Durant and Bird close. I’d go Durant but whatever. Old men will prefer Bird.
Curry and Magic - sure Magic probably ranks higher but Curry is top-15 and maybe higher. Both changed the game dramatically in their own ways.
Embiid and Ewing - I prefer Ewing but again Embiid is a hall of famer.
Davis and Robinson - again two hall of famers. All hall of famers so far. These two are really close imo.
Tatum and Pippen - ok Scottie got this one but Tatum just did win a ring.
Bam and Robinson I guess? Admiral clearly better.
Booker and Clyde? By the time they’re done give me Book.
Ant and uhhh…Mullin? No real comp here. Ant also for me.
Chuck has no real comp.
Hali and Stockton - obviously Stockton but Hali has a lot of room to build a HOF career and I’d expect him to.
White, Jrue and Laettner no real comps.

I’m sure this will not be controversial at all.

Is it just that all the other countries have caught up that much?

It's been 32 years since the Dream Team, and basketball has never been more popular internationally. Even the guys who don't make the NBA are not bad players, especially with consideration to the fact that they often grow up playing with the same national team for years.

 

[Zow]

There will never be another team like it.

I think historically this team is pretty close. Try to match them up with closest comp here.

Lebron and Jordan are close no matter who you prefer.
Durant and Bird close. I’d go Durant but whatever. Old men will prefer Bird.
Curry and Magic - sure Magic probably ranks higher but Curry is top-15 and maybe higher. Both changed the game dramatically in their own ways.
Embiid and Ewing - I prefer Ewing but again Embiid is a hall of famer.
Davis and Robinson - again two hall of famers. All hall of famers so far. These two are really close imo.
Tatum and Pippen - ok Scottie got this one but Tatum just did win a ring.
Bam and Robinson I guess? Admiral clearly better.
Booker and Clyde? By the time they’re done give me Book.
Ant and uhhh…Mullin? No real comp here. Ant also for me.
Chuck has no real comp.
Hali and Stockton - obviously Stockton but Hali has a lot of room to build a HOF career and I’d expect him to.
White, Jrue and Laettner no real comps.

I’m sure this will not be controversial at all.

Two points:

1. The current competition is 10x better. These other countries, even the ones without significant NBA stars, are really good at basketball. So, obviously the '92 team doesn't steamroll the same.
2. Jrue, Bam, White, and Hailburton may not have the same star power but they play important roles on this team and fit really well. So, a player per player comparison sells them short IMO.

I'll take the '92 team gun to my head but this current Dream Team is really damn good and much more resembles an actual team than a lot of the versions in between now and '92. I'm really impressed with the team. I agree with you that they are pretty close.

 

[the moops]

I mean South Sudan and Serbia didn't even exist back in 1992

 

[Frostillicus]

I mean South Sudan and Serbia didn't even exist back in 1992

Neither did Anthony Edwards.

 

[Tau837]

There will never be another team like it.

I think historically this team is pretty close. Try to match them up with closest comp here.

Lebron and Jordan are close no matter who you prefer.
Durant and Bird close. I’d go Durant but whatever. Old men will prefer Bird.
Curry and Magic - sure Magic probably ranks higher but Curry is top-15 and maybe higher. Both changed the game dramatically in their own ways.
Embiid and Ewing - I prefer Ewing but again Embiid is a hall of famer.
Davis and Robinson - again two hall of famers. All hall of famers so far. These two are really close imo.
Tatum and Pippen - ok Scottie got this one but Tatum just did win a ring.
Bam and Robinson I guess? Admiral clearly better.
Booker and Clyde? By the time they’re done give me Book.
Ant and uhhh…Mullin? No real comp here. Ant also for me.
Chuck has no real comp.
Hali and Stockton - obviously Stockton but Hali has a lot of room to build a HOF career and I’d expect him to.
White, Jrue and Laettner no real comps.

I’m sure this will not be controversial at all.

You forgot Malone and used Robinson twice. The fact that 1992 had post HIV retirement Magic and back injury Bird is what makes this close, though still an edge to 1992 IMO. Maybe some better cross matching to consider:

Magic < Lebron
Jordan >>> Edwards
Mullin << Curry
Barkley >> Bam
Stockton = Jrue

Plus:

Bird with back injury < Durant
Ewing > Embiid
Robinson > Davis
Drexler <= Booker
Pippen > Tatum

But you inevitably end up with Malone and Laettner vs. White and Haliburton, a comparison that doesn't really make sense, though we can presumably all agree that Laettner is the worst of all of these players.

 

[thecatch]

Prime Jordan is much, much better than anybody on the current team.

 

[Kev4029]

There will never be another team like it.

I think historically this team is pretty close. Try to match them up with closest comp here.

Lebron and Jordan are close no matter who you prefer.
Durant and Bird close. I’d go Durant but whatever. Old men will prefer Bird.
Curry and Magic - sure Magic probably ranks higher but Curry is top-15 and maybe higher. Both changed the game dramatically in their own ways.
Embiid and Ewing - I prefer Ewing but again Embiid is a hall of famer.
Davis and Robinson - again two hall of famers. All hall of famers so far. These two are really close imo.
Tatum and Pippen - ok Scottie got this one but Tatum just did win a ring.
Bam and Robinson I guess? Admiral clearly better.
Booker and Clyde? By the time they’re done give me Book.
Ant and uhhh…Mullin? No real comp here. Ant also for me.
Chuck has no real comp.
Hali and Stockton - obviously Stockton but Hali has a lot of room to build a HOF career and I’d expect him to.
White, Jrue and Laettner no real comps.

I’m sure this will not be controversial at all.

Two points:

1. The current competition is 10x better. These other countries, even the ones without significant NBA stars, are really good at basketball. So, obviously the '92 team doesn't steamroll the same.
2. Jrue, Bam, White, and Hailburton may not have the same star power but they play important roles on this team and fit really well. So, a player per player comparison sells them short IMO.

I'll take the '92 team gun to my head but this current Dream Team is really damn good and much more resembles an actual team than a lot of the versions in between now and '92. I'm really impressed with the team. I agree with you that they are pretty close.

The thing that is lost a bit in this discussion is that the Dream Team was generally full of stars without traditional role players and it still worked. I think the high end talent of the current team is better, but the star power of the back half of the team was so much higher in 1992. The egos have somehow gotten bigger in the last 32 years - there weren't dudes like Tatum getting all mopey on the sidelines when they weren't playing.

Hard to compare eras, but just the fact that 1992 Jordan was peak Jordan, and peak Jordan was nearly inarguably the best peak player of all time - I would lean slightly toward the original Dream Team.

 

[Kev4029]

Side note, I would love to watch a game of former Yugoslavian nations vs the current (or former) US team.

Luka Garza, Jusuf Nurkic - Bosnia Herzegovina
Bojan Bogdanovic, Dario Saric, Ivica Zubac - Croatia
Nikola Vuvevic, Javonte Green (Naturalized citizen for some reason), Nikola Mirotic - Montenegro
Bogdan Bogdanovic, Nikola Jokic, Nikola Jovic, Vasilije Micic - Serbia
Vlatko Cancar, Luka Doncic, Goran Dragic - Slovenia
Cedi Osman - North Macedonia

Offensively, these guys could hang with the US - maybe even be better with the two best offensive players in the world. Defensively would be a struggle. I'm sure there are some more guys that aren't current/former NBAers that could credibly defend better out there somewhere but at least they would be ****ing massive.

PG: Bogdan Bogdanovic; Vasilije Micic; Goran Dragic
SG: Luka Doncic; Cedi Osman
SF: Javonte Green; Bojan Bogdanovic
PF: Nikola Mirotic; Nikola Jovic; Vlatko Cancar; Dario Saric
C: Nikola Jokic; Ivica Zubac; Jusuf Nurkic; Nikola Vuvevic; Luka Garza

 

[SWC]

There will never be another team like it.

I think historically this team is pretty close. Try to match them up with closest comp here.

Lebron and Jordan are close no matter who you prefer.
Durant and Bird close. I’d go Durant but whatever. Old men will prefer Bird.
Curry and Magic - sure Magic probably ranks higher but Curry is top-15 and maybe higher. Both changed the game dramatically in their own ways.
Embiid and Ewing - I prefer Ewing but again Embiid is a hall of famer.
Davis and Robinson - again two hall of famers. All hall of famers so far. These two are really close imo.
Tatum and Pippen - ok Scottie got this one but Tatum just did win a ring.
Bam and Robinson I guess? Admiral clearly better.
Booker and Clyde? By the time they’re done give me Book.
Ant and uhhh…Mullin? No real comp here. Ant also for me.
Chuck has no real comp.
Hali and Stockton - obviously Stockton but Hali has a lot of room to build a HOF career and I’d expect him to.
White, Jrue and Laettner no real comps.

I’m sure this will not be controversial at all.

Two points:

1. The current competition is 10x better. These other countries, even the ones without significant NBA stars, are really good at basketball. So, obviously the '92 team doesn't steamroll the same.
2. Jrue, Bam, White, and Hailburton may not have the same star power but they play important roles on this team and fit really well. So, a player per player comparison sells them short IMO.

I'll take the '92 team gun to my head but this current Dream Team is really damn good and much more resembles an actual team than a lot of the versions in between now and '92. I'm really impressed with the team. I agree with you that they are pretty close.

The thing that is lost a bit in this discussion is that the Dream Team was generally full of stars without traditional role players and it still worked. I think the high end talent of the current team is better, but the star power of the back half of the team was so much higher in 1992. The egos have somehow gotten bigger in the last 32 years - there weren't dudes like Tatum getting all mopey on the sidelines when they weren't playing.

Hard to compare eras, but just the fact that 1992 Jordan was peak Jordan, and peak Jordan was nearly inarguably the best peak player of all time - I would lean slightly toward the original Dream Team.

i think the superstars of the 92 team generally passed and moved the ball better than the current team but thats not an ego thing to me though that is just a change in the game take that to the bank brohans

 

[Tau837]

The thing that is lost a bit in this discussion is that the Dream Team was generally full of stars without traditional role players and it still worked. I think the high end talent of the current team is better, but the star power of the back half of the team was so much higher in 1992. The egos have somehow gotten bigger in the last 32 years - there weren't dudes like Tatum getting all mopey on the sidelines when they weren't playing.

I get what you mean, but guys like Pippen, Mullin, Stockton, and even Ewing, Robinson, Drexler, and Malone effectively played as role players, with Magic, Jordan, Barkley as the star power. Not unlike how Lebron, KD, and Steph are the star power of the current team, and everyone else effectively must fit into a role player role. (I realize Steph has been disappointing so far, but there is no question he is one of the stars on the team.)

As others have posted, Jordan was peak Jordan in 1992, and that trumps everything. Put him out there with any reasonable combination of 1992 teammates, and IMO 1992 > any 2024 5 players.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

I mean South Sudan and Serbia didn't even exist back in 1992

Imagine if Yugoslavia existed today and who that team would consist of.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Side note, I would love to watch a game of former Yugoslavian nations vs the current (or former) US team.

Luka Garza, Jusuf Nurkic - Bosnia Herzegovina
Bojan Bogdanovic, Dario Saric, Ivica Zubac - Croatia
Nikola Vuvevic, Javonte Green (Naturalized citizen for some reason), Nikola Mirotic - Montenegro
Bogdan Bogdanovic, Nikola Jokic, Nikola Jovic, Vasilije Micic - Serbia
Vlatko Cancar, Luka Doncic, Goran Dragic - Slovenia
Cedi Osman - North Macedonia

Offensively, these guys could hang with the US - maybe even be better with the two best offensive players in the world. Defensively would be a struggle. I'm sure there are some more guys that aren't current/former NBAers that could credibly defend better out there somewhere but at least they would be ****ing massive.

PG: Bogdan Bogdanovic; Vasilije Micic; Goran Dragic
SG: Luka Doncic; Cedi Osman
SF: Javonte Green; Bojan Bogdanovic
PF: Nikola Mirotic; Nikola Jovic; Vlatko Cancar; Dario Saric
C: Nikola Jokic; Ivica Zubac; Jusuf Nurkic; Nikola Vuvevic; Luka Garza

 

[Long Ball Larry]

There will never be another team like it.

I think historically this team is pretty close. Try to match them up with closest comp here.

Lebron and Jordan are close no matter who you prefer.
Durant and Bird close. I’d go Durant but whatever. Old men will prefer Bird.
Curry and Magic - sure Magic probably ranks higher but Curry is top-15 and maybe higher. Both changed the game dramatically in their own ways.
Embiid and Ewing - I prefer Ewing but again Embiid is a hall of famer.
Davis and Robinson - again two hall of famers. All hall of famers so far. These two are really close imo.
Tatum and Pippen - ok Scottie got this one but Tatum just did win a ring.
Bam and Robinson I guess? Admiral clearly better.
Booker and Clyde? By the time they’re done give me Book.
Ant and uhhh…Mullin? No real comp here. Ant also for me.
Chuck has no real comp.
Hali and Stockton - obviously Stockton but Hali has a lot of room to build a HOF career and I’d expect him to.
White, Jrue and Laettner no real comps.

I’m sure this will not be controversial at all.

Is it just that all the other countries have caught up that much?

I have to find the exact stat, but the number of nba games played by non-Americans in this Olympics is like 10 times what it was in 1992

 

[Grahamburn]

92 Dream Team would smoke these fools. Jordan would not let his team lose to these load managing cowards.

 

[Frostillicus]

I actually think if the 92 team time traveled to 2024 and played this team they'd get smoked.

 

[Frostillicus]

Mostly because Jordan was overrated.

 

[the moops]

I actually think if the 92 team time traveled to 2024 and played this team they'd get smoked.

That team may even lose to South Sudan

 

[Yo Mama]

I’ll take the ‘08 Redeem Team.

Kobe, LeBron, Wade, Kidd, CP3, Howard, Bosh, Carmelo - all at or fairly near their primes

 

[SWC]

hot takes here get your hot takes heeeere take that to the bank brohans

 

[AAABatteries]

Booker and Clyde? By the time they’re done give me Book.

I agreed with most of what you wrote except this one. Clyde is criminally underrated because of Jordan’s shadow. Booker isn’t to that level and I don’t see him getting there.

 

[the moops]

Booker and Clyde? By the time they’re done give me Book.

I agreed with most of what you wrote except this one. Clyde is criminally underrated because of Jordan’s shadow. Booker isn’t to that level and I don’t see him getting there.

Yea and 1992 was absolute peak Clyde too

 

[Capella]

Booker and Clyde? By the time they’re done give me Book.

I agreed with most of what you wrote except this one. Clyde is criminally underrated because of Jordan’s shadow. Booker isn’t to that level and I don’t see him getting there.

Clyde was awesome but if Book leads a team to a title and compiles a 15 year career he’ll be right there with the Glide

 

[AAABatteries]

Booker and Clyde? By the time they’re done give me Book.

I agreed with most of what you wrote except this one. Clyde is criminally underrated because of Jordan’s shadow. Booker isn’t to that level and I don’t see him getting there.

Clyde was awesome but if Book leads a team to a title and compiles a 15 year career he’ll be right there with the Glide

I wouldn't disagree with that, but I don't see him doing the title part unless he leaves Phoenix to partner up with someone.

I will say that I find it somewhat difficult to compare guys now to back then due to different playing styles and the way things were refed. I'm not sure Booker would have been great in the 80's.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Booker and Clyde? By the time they’re done give me Book.

I agreed with most of what you wrote except this one. Clyde is criminally underrated because of Jordan’s shadow. Booker isn’t to that level and I don’t see him getting there.

Clyde was awesome but if Book leads a team to a title and compiles a 15 year career he’ll be right there with the Glide

I don't see Booker ever being considered an "all-time great" which Clyde is largely considered. I don't see that for Tatum either, honestly. Whereas most of the '92 Team, if not all, are considered among the greatest players of all-time (maybe just Mullin and Laetner are out of that class of player). Lebron, Curry, KD, and I guess AD and maybe Embiid are in that category on this roster, but that's it, with Edwards having a chance to get there.

 

[Kev4029]

Booker and Clyde? By the time they’re done give me Book.

I agreed with most of what you wrote except this one. Clyde is criminally underrated because of Jordan’s shadow. Booker isn’t to that level and I don’t see him getting there.

Clyde was awesome but if Book leads a team to a title and compiles a 15 year career he’ll be right there with the Glide

I don't see Booker ever being considered an "all-time great" which Clyde is largely considered. I don't see that for Tatum either, honestly. Whereas most of the '92 Team, if not all, are considered among the greatest players of all-time (maybe just Mullin and Laetner are out of that class of player). Lebron, Curry, KD, and I guess AD and maybe Embiid are in that category on this roster, but that's it, with Edwards having a chance to get there.

I wouldn't put Ewing in all-time great territory either, at least in terms of NBA accomplishments, despite his top 50/75 NBA team selections. Can't have a whole theory named after you about overrated players and be an all-time great.

 

[Moe.]

1992 looks better on paper than what it actually was. Bird and Magic were almost done. It’d be like CP3 being on this team - sure he’s an all-time great, but not right now. Maybe Jordan keeps things close but 2024 should win easily. Not even that close. The 1992 team was all fun, they didn’t even really have to try to figure out how to play as a team or anything like that, they just steamrolled everyone because the talent gap was so massive. Listing out their average margin of victory is irrelevant.

 

[Moe.]

Who do you guys think would win in a race - Carl Lewis or Usain Bolt? That is the conversation we’re having right now

 

[Anarchy99]

I don't see that for Tatum either, honestly.

I really don't get how many people pile on Tatum. He just finished his age 25 season. Here are all the players that played on Team USA in the 92, 08, and 24 Olympic teams leveled out to include what they did through their age 25 seasons (whether they came before or after their stint on Team USA or even if they haven't reached 25 yet). I listed 1) the number of playoff games they played in, 2) how many titles they won by that age, and 3) their All-NBA selections up until then.

Kobe - 119/3 (1,1,1,2,2,3)
Tatum - 113/1 (1,1,1,3)
Magic - 88/3 (1,1,1,2)
Prince - 81/1 (0)
Durant - 73/0 (1,1,1,1,1)
LeBron - 71/0 (1,1,1,1,2,2)
Pippen 59/2 (2)
Howard - 57/0 (1,1,1,1,3)
Wade - 54/1 (2,2,3)
Carmelo - 45/0/2 (3,3)
Williams - 44/0 (2,2)
Bird - 38/1 (1,1,1)
Jordan - 37/0 (1,1,1,2)
Barkley - 33/0 (1,1,2,2)
Stockton - 30/0 (2)
Edwards - 27/0 (2)
Drexler 26/0 (2)
Paul - 23/0/1 (2,2)
Malone - 23/0 (1,2)
Embiid - 23/0 (2,2)
Curry - 19/0 (2)
Mullin - 18/0 (2)
Boozer - 17/0 (0)
Haliburton - 15/0 (3)
Robinson - 14/0 (1,3)
Kidd - 12/0 (1)
Redd - 11/0 (3)
Bosh - 11/0 (2)
White - 10/0 (0)
Ewing - 4/0 (2)
Laettner - 0/0 (0)

No matter what people think of Tatum, his accomplishments so far in his career put him in a top tier / elite category. There are plenty of people who don't think he's "that guy," but he hasn't even started his prime yet. Yeah, I get it. He started younger than a number of guys on this list. He's played for a better / really good team than almost everyone on this list. I am sure there's no shortage of folks that think he's not even the best player on the Celtics (which I don't agree with). I guess the question is, if a guy puts up 30/12/7 and plays solid defensively but doesn't score at all in the last 5 minutes (and wins), is that better than a guy that puts up 22/4/3 but scores a couple of baskets in the last 2 minutes of a tight game (and wins . . . like Brown) . . . or puts up 32/12/11 and loses that game (like Luka)? Tatum has the most total wins in the NBA over the past 3 seasons (including playoffs) at 199. The next non-Celtic is Joker at 173. The next big names are Brunson (161), Edwards (145), Giannis (144), and Booker (144). If they play to win games, then Tatum has done pretty well so far.

 

[Anarchy99]

Who do you guys think would win in a race - Carl Lewis or Usain Bolt? That is the conversation we’re having right now

Part of what gets lost in these types of arguments is that athletes 40 years later are better conditioned / put up better times or scores. IIRC, Lewis ran a 9.99 100m in the 1984 Olympics. I believe the fastest clocked time this year was 9.77. There a number of guys that could beat Lewis' time now.

Similarly, the argument that championship TEAM X from a different era of football would win against current teams is equally askew. For example, the 70s Steelers offensive line each weighed 240-250 lbs. Their defensive line wasn't much heavier, and their linebackers were in the 215-220 lbs. range. Linemen now are 60-80 lbs. heavier and likely faster, so even average teams from today would likely have their way with the 70s Steel Curtain. QBs from the 70s struggled to complete 45-50% of their passes. Even so-so QBs today can complete 65-70%. That doesn't change that those Steelers team were a dynasty and great for their time.

 

[Brunell4MVP]

You can't compare any athlete of 40 years ago with an athlete of today. None of them. Even Michael Jordan. Even J Nicklaus. Even Jessie Owen. All you need to see this fact is Michael Phelps just a few years ago had double digit world records. He now has 4. He was the greatest ever and will have none soon in a sport with no new equipment except maybe a better banana hammock. The 100th best basketball player today is better physically and skill wise as the best basketball player of 40 year ago. It's not an opinion. It's a fact. People get stronger, faster, taller, better.

Now what is debatable is:1) how good were they relative to their peers, and 2) emotional fortitude and work ethic.

I would argue the 1992 dream team is >>>>>>>>> infinity better than the current team on both of those. I personally find the current team extremely weak of mind and a bunch of complainers. they are soft and Jordan who I can barely can stand would absolutely be in their head within 5 seconds. If a team like Germany or Canada gets them down 8+ points, I could see them melting faster than an ice cream in the Sahara

 

[the moops]

The 100th best basketball player today is better physically and skill wise as the best basketball player of 40 year ago. It's not an opinion. It's a fact. People get stronger, faster, taller, better.

I am all about the today's athletes are better at just about everything but this is taking it too far.

The 100th best basketball player today is someone like Austin Reaves, or Bruce Brown, or Naz Reid. or really any number of guys. But none of those guys are more skilled or physically as dominant as Michael Jordan or Hakeem or Magic or any number of top players from back in the day.

 

[msudaisy26]

If Lebron and all the NBA players today were born in the 60's and 70's you would have most of the same players dominating the NBA in the 80's and 90's and if Jordan and all the players from that era were born 30 + years later they would all be dominating like they did in their day and everyone would be saying Jordan's era would beat the crap out of Lebron's era because of all advancements in training, medicine, etc.

 

[Anarchy99]

The 100th best basketball player today is better physically and skill wise as the best basketball player of 40 year ago. It's not an opinion. It's a fact. People get stronger, faster, taller, better.

I am all about the today's athletes are better at just about everything but this is taking it too far.

The 100th best basketball player today is someone like Austin Reaves, or Bruce Brown, or Naz Reid. or really any number of guys. But none of those guys are more skilled or physically as dominant as Michael Jordan or Hakeem or Magic or any number of top players from back in the day.

This one's tough. I think that there are a lot of basketball players that are probably bigger / stronger / faster / quicker than guys that played 30 or 40 years ago, many of whom are better conditioned (but clearly not all). And I think there are a lot of players with better overall skill sets than back in the day (mostly handle and 3P shooting . . . and for a lot of guys versatility and defense). But that doesn't always equate to being better players than the all-time greats, who were mentally tougher and warriors. In 1981, teams made 24.5% of 3PA. Last season, that was up to 36.6%. But comparing teams from different eras is pretty pointless, as the game has morphed and pivoted so many times over the years. Thirty or forty years ago, guys had specific roles, while today players need to defend multiple positions and be able to do a bevy of different things offensively. As others have said, the all-time greats would still be great no matter when they played . . . they would just play a different style then the era they actually played in.

 

[scoobus]

I don't see that for Tatum either, honestly.

I really don't get how many people pile on Tatum. He just finished his age 25 season. Here are all the players that played on Team USA in the 92, 08, and 24 Olympic teams leveled out to include what they did through their age 25 seasons (whether they came before or after their stint on Team USA or even if they haven't reached 25 yet). I listed 1) the number of playoff games they played in, 2) how many titles they won by that age, and 3) their All-NBA selections up until then.

Kobe - 119/3 (1,1,1,2,2,3)
Tatum - 113/1 (1,1,1,3)
Magic - 88/3 (1,1,1,2)
Prince - 81/1 (0)
Durant - 73/0 (1,1,1,1,1)
LeBron - 71/0 (1,1,1,1,2,2)
Pippen 59/2 (2)
Howard - 57/0 (1,1,1,1,3)
Wade - 54/1 (2,2,3)
Carmelo - 45/0/2 (3,3)
Williams - 44/0 (2,2)
Bird - 38/1 (1,1,1)
Jordan - 37/0 (1,1,1,2)
Barkley - 33/0 (1,1,2,2)
Stockton - 30/0 (2)
Edwards - 27/0 (2)
Drexler 26/0 (2)
Paul - 23/0/1 (2,2)
Malone - 23/0 (1,2)
Embiid - 23/0 (2,2)
Curry - 19/0 (2)
Mullin - 18/0 (2)
Boozer - 17/0 (0)
Haliburton - 15/0 (3)
Robinson - 14/0 (1,3)
Kidd - 12/0 (1)
Redd - 11/0 (3)
Bosh - 11/0 (2)
White - 10/0 (0)
Ewing - 4/0 (2)
Laettner - 0/0 (0)

No matter what people think of Tatum, his accomplishments so far in his career put him in a top tier / elite category. There are plenty of people who don't think he's "that guy," but he hasn't even started his prime yet. Yeah, I get it. He started younger than a number of guys on this list. He's played for a better / really good team than almost everyone on this list. I am sure there's no shortage of folks that think he's not even the best player on the Celtics (which I don't agree with). I guess the question is, if a guy puts up 30/12/7 and plays solid defensively but doesn't score at all in the last 5 minutes (and wins), is that better than a guy that puts up 22/4/3 but scores a couple of baskets in the last 2 minutes of a tight game (and wins . . . like Brown) . . . or puts up 32/12/11 and loses that game (like Luka)? Tatum has the most total wins in the NBA over the past 3 seasons (including playoffs) at 199. The next non-Celtic is Joker at 173. The next big names are Brunson (161), Edwards (145), Giannis (144), and Booker (144). If they play to win games, then Tatum has done pretty well so far.

Man that's a lot of team accomplishments you're giving Tatum sole credit for. The Celtics won this year because they put together the best team. A 1-5 of all above average defenders. none of whom are slouches on the offensive end and can all knock down the 3. Well earned title. But that's credit to the Celtics as a team (and the front office obviously).

If Tatum wants respect as one of the elites, he needs to raise his game come playoff time, which he really hasn't done (and this year didn't have to). He shot 42.7% from the field and 28.3% from 3 over the course of the postseason, for a robust 54.9 TS%. I'm not gunna do the math, but his other counting stats seem about the same on a per minute basis. He did play a ton of minutes though, which is something you absolutely have to give him credit for over the course of his career thus far.

But comparing him to what Luka had to do this postseason? You swap those two, Boston still waltzes to a title. Here you go Jayson, your co-starters are now Derrick Jones, Daniel Gafford, and P.J. Washington, I'm sure we'll see you in the finals. GLLLLLLL. And you wanna minimize what Jaylen Brown did (for whatever reason), but he didn't win Conference Finals and Finals MVP by accident.

If you can watch these games and put Tatum anywhere close to LeBron or KD as current basketball players, we'll just have to agree to disagree. Maybe Tatum gets better, he is only 25, but that's the reason he gets pushback, when people try to compare him to players clearly better than him , let alone his Monta Ellis-esque video.

At the end of the day, I'm rooting for Team USA. So if Tatum plays, I'll be rooting for him to go nuts and play like the player he thinks he is. But IMO, like I've said before, his best role on this team is minimal.

 

[scoobus]

And basketball-reference has a similarity score feature based on player's win shares through individual seasons. Jayson Tatum's closest player comparison through their first 7 seasons is...

Carmelo Anthony

 

[SWC]

The 100th best basketball player today is better physically and skill wise as the best basketball player of 40 year ago. It's not an opinion. It's a fact. People get stronger, faster, taller, better.

I am all about the today's athletes are better at just about everything but this is taking it too far.

The 100th best basketball player today is someone like Austin Reaves, or Bruce Brown, or Naz Reid. or really any number of guys. But none of those guys are more skilled or physically as dominant as Michael Jordan or Hakeem or Magic or any number of top players from back in the day.

and what is really dumb about this argument is everyone wants to pull a guy out of their prime back in the day and put them against a guy in their prime from today and ignore how much training weight work speed and agility work access to video of other players aau playing against the best as a youth has changed since back then just think if you took wilt chamberlain and gave him todays training and youth experience what he would be like today he would be so dominant it would make our heads spin but you cant do that and that is why these types of analysis are stupid you have to look at a player versus their contemporaries and determine their level of greatness take that to the bank bromigos