2024 Las Vegas Raiders thread - RIP Mr. Raider (7 Viewers)

[Bruno2]

May I weigh in as a sort of neutral observer who watched Raiders games to see Davante Adams play? AOC isn't the guy, IMO. I don't even think he possesses great arm strength, which has been something you guys are talking about. I don't see him zipping the ball in there, really, and he's so immobile that he needs a bit of a gun to accomplish things. I saw a lot of guys open last year that weren't getting the ball. But that's my non-scout, television angle assessment of it. So take that for what it's worth.

Now, he's young and you can improve arm strength and his knowledge of defenses will only get better, but some of those games? Woof. That MN game was especially bad, and MN didn't have that great of a defense overall. That was borderline embarrassing—almost as if AOC just got outclassed by a defense. He looked awful.

I admit I'm biased in that I'd like to see a gunslinger that falls in love with Adams before they ship Davante off to the metaphorical glue factory, so that's something to consider. But my honest assessment is that AOC is not the guy, at least yet. That said, who is really available? I'm not sold of Fields. I mean, Cousins would be nice, but that's a ton of money that you'd tie up in him. Wilson is something I don't see happening. So who, then? That's your million dollar question.

Good luck.

Great post, that Minnesota game was rough. To lose at home 0-3 in a dome in this era of the NFL after a bye was embarrassing and almost lost AP his job if it weren’t for beating the Chiefs and regrouping in a major way against the Chargers.
To answer your question:
It’s all about realistic options. The Raiders would love to have Daniels but realistically the cost is too great. Not only that, the top 3 teams need QBs. What’s their motivation for moving down if they want to draft a QB as well? It would take a king’s ransom to get Chi, Was and/or NE to move. I think they would like to be aggressive during the draft, but as others on here have mentioned, it usually doesn’t turn out well for that team.
BE PATIENT: Stay put at #13 and draft BPA. Who knows, it might be a QB that has slid like Levis did last year. Or just build the trenches at #13. 3/5 of the Oline are FAs so something has to be done there. I’ve been waiting decades for them to invest a high pick in a RT, this is a great draft to do that. Then they could package a deal back into the first round for a Penix or Nix. McCarthy will probably be gone and too soon for Rattler. It’s a reasonable option at least and they still feel like they’re being aggressive.
Free Agents:
Cousins will be too expensive, Mayfield will probably stay in Tampa and he’d be expensive as well. The other free agents are washed and as AP called them “band aids”. I’d rather roll with AOC than bring in Tannehill for example.
Russ:
It pains me to say this, but at a vet minimum, he makes sense. And I still think he’s got something to prove which AP respects in a player. Plus I’d love to stick it to the Donkeys. Imagine beating them with a QB they’re paying for! But Russ is an egomaniac, if he’s learned anything from his failures in Denver I’d be on board with giving him a shot to beat out AOC.
Trading for Fields:
Some hate the idea, some are all for it. I think if they can get him for a 3rd they should do it. But we don’t know what Getsy really knows about Fields. Maybe he wants no part of him. OR maybe he would jump at the chance to continue to work with him. Who really knows at this point but the Raiders, time will tell.
To ultimately answer your question, no matter what they do AOC will get the chance this year to compete for the starting job instead of being the lesser of evils. Good luck to him.

 

[massraider]

Bottom line, we would need to invest a lot in the OL to roll Super Trooper out there every week.

But his arm is no joke. I don't see any problem there. He's also 25 already. Where's the upside here? If we get a decent backup out of him, great. If he turns into Kirk Cousins, great.

And listen, anyone can think AOC should get the job, and he might be able to yadda yadda yadda, but the Raiders aren't going to do that. They are going to bring in someone to take the job. They aren't planning their off-season right now assuming he's the guy.

 

[LawFitz]

Is there anyone here saying they think AOC should get the job outright? Some of you guys are arguing with a strawman.

 

[ZADO]

Is there anyone here saying they think AOC should get the job outright? Some of you guys are arguing with a strawman.

Right, as of right now its his job to keep the job, nobody is handing it to him, and if what i hear and read about AOC`s character and work ethic ,he`s up to the challenge .

 

[JohnnyU]

Is there anyone here saying they think AOC should get the job outright? Some of you guys are arguing with a strawman.

Right, as of right now its his job to keep the job, nobody is handing it to him, and if what i hear and read about AOC`s character and work ethic ,he`s up to the challenge .

Of course there will be competition, unless a big name is signed. Otherwise he is the QB for now. I would hang on to him for now.

 

[Hankmoody]

Fair enough. With the proliferation of NFL analytics and metrics in recent years, I think it is naive to believe that teams still rely on the trade value chart Jimmy Johnson came up with more than 30 years ago. But YMMV.

I don't think that. What's why "The Chart" is in quotes and it's why I didn't stick hardcore to the values it would indicate and would be willing to give up "more". But until someone published something more authoritative, which they never will, all we can do is work with something roughly accurately structured like that. We all know you can't move from #13 to #8 for a 6th round pick, we can look at past transactions and take a rough swag at what it would cost and then apply a large +/- buffer to theoretically discuss stuff on a message board.

I don't know that you can ever get an exact prediction that's going to be 100% accurate, but hey, YMMV.

 

[Hankmoody]

Oh baby it's salary cap hell cut time and we should be jumping in on avoiding the comp pick formula on some of these guys. Eric Kendricks, Justin Simmons, Tra'davious White, Jamal Adams, we need to see if we can work people in at the right structure.

 

[Bruno2]

Oh baby it's salary cap hell cut time and we should be jumping in on avoiding the comp pick formula on some of these guys. Eric Kendricks, Justin Simmons, Tra'davious White, Jamal Adams, we need to see if we can work people in at the right structure.

If they don’t get all crazy and trade up for Daniels, I hope they draft a RT and sign either Simmons or Wilkins on the DLine.

 

[DocHolliday]

Is there anyone here saying they think AOC should get the job outright? Some of you guys are arguing with a strawman.

I don’t think anyone thinks that.

 

[Hankmoody]

If they don’t get all crazy and trade up for Daniels, I hope they draft a RT and sign either Simmons or Wilkins on the DLine.

Simmons is a bit small for the DLine.

 

[Bruno2]

If they don’t get all crazy and trade up for Daniels, I hope they draft a RT and sign either Simmons or Wilkins on the DLine.

Simmons is a bit small for the DLine.

My mistake I thought the Simmons from the Titans who plays DT was a free agent.

 

[kaso]

We no longer have to worry about Hoyer taking AOC's job. He has officially been released.

 

[LawFitz]

We no longer have to worry about Hoyer taking AOC's job. He has officially been released.

2024 Dead Cap: $2,602,500
2024 Cap Savings: $92,500

Yay McDumbiels!

 

[massraider]

We live in amazing times. Chris Jones is able to send NFL media in a tizzy by tweeting out a single emoji:

I am then able to tweet a Mark Davis gif to Chris Jones in reply.

What a world.

 

[Bruno2]

We live in amazing times. Chris Jones is able to send NFL media in a tizzy by tweeting out a single emoji:

I am then able to tweet a Mark Davis gif to Chris Jones in reply.

What a world.

Going back to KC

 

[Chadstroma]

We live in amazing times. Chris Jones is able to send NFL media in a tizzy by tweeting out a single emoji:

I am then able to tweet a Mark Davis gif to Chris Jones in reply.

What a world.

Going back to KC

Yea, I wonder how it is structured.... the first glance is that they overpaid and over comitted but my guess is it is more like a 2 year deal with outs afterwards. He is still dominant when he wants to be but he is clearly slowing down.

 

[massraider]

Yea, I wonder how it is structured.... the first glance is that they overpaid and over comitted but my guess is it is more like a 2 year deal with outs afterwards. He is still dominant when he wants to be but he is clearly slowing down.

Seems like he gets 90 mill--ish over the first three years, guaranteed.

He will probably at some point be an albatross on the cap, but it's worth the play here. It's worth it for KC to try and get 2-3 more years of play from him, and if they eat 30 mill in dead cap down the road--whatever. This IS their window. I have no doubt people will see the structure of the deal, and be like, Well, they are screwed in 2028, Jones will be so OLD. Again, whatever. The All-Pro at the hardest non-QB spot to fill on the field---that's the guy you overpay. Worth the eventual cap pain later.

That deal makes sense for KC more than it does for us. I'd rather pay less, and get more years out of WIlkins.

 

[Bruno2]

Yea, I wonder how it is structured.... the first glance is that they overpaid and over comitted but my guess is it is more like a 2 year deal with outs afterwards. He is still dominant when he wants to be but he is clearly slowing down.

Seems like he gets 90 mill--ish over the first three years, guaranteed.

He will probably at some point be an albatross on the cap, but it's worth the play here. It's worth it for KC to try and get 2-3 more years of play from him, and if they eat 30 mill in dead cap down the road--whatever. This IS their window. I have no doubt people will see the structure of the deal, and be like, Well, they are screwed in 2028, Jones will be so OLD. Again, whatever. The All-Pro at the hardest non-QB spot to fill on the field---that's the guy you overpay. Worth the eventual cap pain later.

That deal makes sense for KC more than it does for us. I'd rather pay less, and get more years out of WIlkins.

KC’s window is wide open right now. It makes sense to keep the gang together for a couple years even if it’s going to hurt down the road.
It’s a little different that the Tyreek Hill situation because even though he’s a great WR, they still have Mahomes which obviously means Super Bowls. Chris Jones is like the “Mahomes “ of the defense. Losing him would have been a big blow to the defense and team as a whole.

 

[kaso]

Sorry for the non-Raider talk.
I have to think that the Jones contract means that Sneed is traded. Or at the very least KC is actively pursuing that, whether they fined a buyer or not remains to be seen. The big benefit to KC is an amazingly weak CB FA pool.

Back to the Raiders:
Acquiring Jack Jones during the season looks like an even better move now looking at the group of FA CBs.

 

[kaso]

I would not have been mad for the Raiders to acquire Mac Jones at the price Jacksonville is reportedly paying. Although I'm not aware of his current contract from a financial POV.

Also, Lynn Bowden just became a FA. Should the Raider kick the tires again?

 

[Chadstroma]

I would not have been made for the Raiders to acquire Mac Jones at the price Jacksonville is reportedly paying. Although I'm not aware of his current contract from a financial POV.

Also, Lynn Bowden just became a FA. Should the Raider kick the tires again?

You wouldn't pay a 6th for Jones?

 

[kaso]

I would not have been made for the Raiders to acquire Mac Jones at the price Jacksonville is reportedly paying. Although I'm not aware of his current contract from a financial POV.

Also, Lynn Bowden just became a FA. Should the Raider kick the tires again?

You wouldn't pay a 6th for Jones?

typo (now corrected in my post)...

I would have been ok with the pick compensation to acquire Jones. I just don't know what the financial commitment is.

 

[Chadstroma]

I would not have been made for the Raiders to acquire Mac Jones at the price Jacksonville is reportedly paying. Although I'm not aware of his current contract from a financial POV.

Also, Lynn Bowden just became a FA. Should the Raider kick the tires again?

You wouldn't pay a 6th for Jones?

typo (now corrected in my post)...

I would have been ok with the pick compensation to acquire Jones. I just don't know what the financial commitment is.

I got to figure it is low. He is still on his rookie contract and he will be a backup there so if they extend him it won't break the bank.

 

[massraider]

Andre James re-signed.

Assuming he came cheap, I like the move.

 

[Tau837]

Article by Daniel Popper, Chargers beat writer at the Athletic: NFL free agency: Best and worst deals of the last 4 years and where all 32 teams rank

The methodology uses Approximate Value as its value component and includes 897 external free agents signed before the regular season (i.e., no in-season signings) to a contract of at least $1M from 2020-2023. Here is where the Chargers and Raiders ranked:

• Cash Spent:
  • Raiders: $248,630,355 (#5)
  • Chargers: $‎221,716,943 (#11)
• Total AV added:
  • Raiders: 160 (tied for #7)
  • Chargers: 143 (#10)
• AV per million:
  • Chargers: 0.645 (#26)
  • Raiders: 0.644 (#27)

The article highlighted lowlights for both teams:

The Raiders paid edge rusher Chandler Jones $33.03 million in cash for 4 1/2 sacks. They also paid Garoppolo $24.07 million in cash for six starts.

The Los Angeles Chargers paid cornerback J.C. Jackson $38.44 million in cash for seven starts. He injured his knee in 2022 and was traded in 2023.

It also noted that the Raiders had 2 of the top 10 AV per million signings: Agholor was #1 on that list and John Jenkins was #5. The Chargers had no one on that list.

It is worth noting that AV has flaws that I have posted about previously in this forum. But as a general proxy, it may be okay for an exercise like this.

I posted this here because of Telesco. Hard to know for sure how much responsibility he had for the Chargers free agent signings given that the Chargers President of Football Operations, John Spanos, is the owner's son. ( ) But, at minimum, Telesco was likely a primary decision maker.

The Chargers with Telesco were rarely big spenders in free agency. They had a big spending offseason 2 years ago that was primarily responsible for those metrics above. It did not work out well at all. Having gotten burned then, I will be interested to see if Telesco goes back to his generally conservative approach to free agency.

 

[LawFitz]

Article by Daniel Popper, Chargers beat writer at the Athletic: NFL free agency: Best and worst deals of the last 4 years and where all 32 teams rank

The methodology uses Approximate Value as its value component and includes 897 external free agents signed before the regular season (i.e., no in-season signings) to a contract of at least $1M from 2020-2023. Here is where the Chargers and Raiders ranked:

• Cash Spent:
  • Raiders: $248,630,355 (#5)
  • Chargers: $‎221,716,943 (#11)
• Total AV added:
  • Raiders: 160 (tied for #7)
  • Chargers: 143 (#10)
• AV per million:
  • Chargers: 0.645 (#26)
  • Raiders: 0.644 (#27)

The article highlighted lowlights for both teams:

The Raiders paid edge rusher Chandler Jones $33.03 million in cash for 4 1/2 sacks. They also paid Garoppolo $24.07 million in cash for six starts.

The Los Angeles Chargers paid cornerback J.C. Jackson $38.44 million in cash for seven starts. He injured his knee in 2022 and was traded in 2023.

It also noted that the Raiders had 2 of the top 10 AV per million signings: Agholor was #1 on that list and John Jenkins was #5. The Chargers had no one on that list.

It is worth noting that AV has flaws that I have posted about previously in this forum. But as a general proxy, it may be okay for an exercise like this.

I posted this here because of Telesco. Hard to know for sure how much responsibility he had for the Chargers free agent signings given that the Chargers President of Football Operations, John Spanos, is the owner's son. ( ) But, at minimum, Telesco was likely a primary decision maker.

The Chargers with Telesco were rarely big spenders in free agency. They had a big spending offseason 2 years ago that was primarily responsible for those metrics above. It did not work out well at all. Having gotten burned then, I will be interested to see if Telesco goes back to his generally conservative approach to free agency.

I have no stats to back this up, but my general feeling towards NFL FA after having watched it play out yearly since it was instituted, is you either go way big for the ultra-rare walking HOFer types who almost never come available (e.g. Reggie White, Charles Woodson, Deon Sanders); or sit out enitrely the initial wave and then scoop value guys for depth and competiton among the 2nd and 3rd waves (e.g. Jacoby Meyers, Robert Spillane). And never pay up for washed and/or satisfied guys (Chan Jones).

 

[Bruno2]

Baker stays with Tampa

The dominoes are starting to fall…

 

[krsone21]

Andre James re-signed.

Assuming he came cheap, I like the move.

James had a decent season for the Raiders at C. I think he finished around 13th for all Centers out of 32. Plus that's one less hole to fill on the offensive line in free agency or the draft.

 

[massraider]

How he fits: James will retain his role as the starting center. The Raiders considered moving left guard Dylan Parham to center this offseason but were concerned about getting outpriced in the guard market, according to a league source. Ultimately, they decided bringing back James and keeping Parham at guard was a more prudent path forward than paying the price it would’ve taken to sign two starting-caliber guards in free agency.

 

[massraider]

Outlook: The Raiders know what they have in James, and you can’t put a price on comfort and popular teammates in the locker room. Or apparently, you can. This gives Telesco fewer holes to plug when business starts Monday. And James could also improve under new offensive line coach James Cregg, who is coming over from the San Francisco 49ers. The Raiders linemen were not big fans of McDaniels or his O-line coach, Carmen Bricillo, who stayed on after McDaniels was fired but left for the New York Giants staff last month.

 

[massraider]

The Chargers with Telesco were rarely big spenders in free agency. They had a big spending offseason 2 years ago that was primarily responsible for those metrics above. It did not work out well at all. Having gotten burned then, I will be interested to see if Telesco goes back to his generally conservative approach to free agency.

The two things that I believe that I have heard this winter has been Pierce saying they don't want another caretaker at QB, and Telesco saying they might be using free agency more than he would like this spring.

I expect the Raiders to make an aggressive move for a rookie QB. I think if they thought Wilson or Fields was the answer, we would have heard.

And I expect them to sign a higher than average number of mid range free agents. If you look at their cap,they have Maxx Crosby, Devante Adams, and rookie contracts. Raiders don't have a middle class. So while I think a big splash guy is possible (Leonard Williams is my guy) , I am really hoping for a volume/value based approach.

With a full complement of draft picks, and all the cap space they need, this front office is in a much better spot than previous first-year regimes.

There were so many teams who made cap cuts, and so many teams who don't have much cap space, and sooo many teams with new coaches, who let some of the old players slip out the door, I feel like there will be a good amount of free agent bargains this year. The Raiders could miss out on the top guys, but it just feels like there will be the big ticket guys going to the clubs with a ton of space, and then teams with no money lookig for $ 3mill players. I wonder if 3 players at $6 mill per year might outplays one guy for $25 mill. I feel like it could.

Lot of 2 year $8-10 mill deals. I'd like to see that

 

[Hankmoody]

typo (now corrected in my post)...

I would have been ok with the pick compensation to acquire Jones. I just don't know what the financial commitment is.

Super cheap. He's the same draft as Fields so virtually the same money. Probably a pass on the 5th year option (Jax will for sure) but we could have worked something out most likely. At this price I'm very bummed we didn't jump in unless there's an all-in on a big name.

 

[joey]

Just like we didn’t bring in a retread at head coach, and kept Pierce, I want us to do the same at QB. Pick a rookie to compete with AOC and let the best man win.

 

[LawFitz]

Saw a mock tonight on CBS with the Raiders taking BPA (CB) at 13, then trading into the back-end of the 1st to take Penix at pick 30. I have my reservations about Penix, but of all the rookie QBs, he is most similar to AOC. Maybe it could work out well structuring an offense to their similar strengths, and then letting them compete to earn and keep the right to run it (on bargain bin cap for both combined) for the next 3-4 years.

 

[32 Counter Pass]

Saw a mock tonight on CBS with the Raiders taking BPA (CB) at 13, then trading into the back-end of the 1st to take Penix at pick 30. I have my reservations about Penix, but of all the rookie QBs, he is most similar to AOC. Maybe it could work out well structuring an offense to their similar strengths, and then letting them compete to earn and keep the right to run it (on bargain bin cap for both combined) for the next 3-4 years.

Put me on record in favor of this move. Penix unequivocally proved he can play the last two years at Wash. He throws the best deep ball of all the QBs in this class. His injuries are overblown.

I am so tired of witnessing this team pass on players over some overblown concern. It is still fresh in my mind that they passed on Davis last year. But even more painful is they passed on both Chris Jones and Tyreek because of concerns.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

Wilson allegedly going to the Steelers

 

[ZADO]

Saw a mock tonight on CBS with the Raiders taking BPA (CB) at 13, then trading into the back-end of the 1st to take Penix at pick 30. I have my reservations about Penix, but of all the rookie QBs, he is most similar to AOC. Maybe it could work out well structuring an offense to their similar strengths, and then letting them compete to earn and keep the right to run it (on bargain bin cap for both combined) for the next 3-4 years.

Put me on record in favor of this move. Penix unequivocally proved he can play the last two years at Wash. He throws the best deep ball of all the QBs in this class. His injuries are overblown.

I am so tired of witnessing this team pass on players over some overblown concern. It is still fresh in my mind that they passed on Davis last year. But even more painful is they passed on both Chris Jones and Tyreek because of concerns.

Just watched some Penix highlights , the kid can sling it BUT, can he run and scramble because that seems awfully important to a lot of people .

 

[Bruno2]

Saw a mock tonight on CBS with the Raiders taking BPA (CB) at 13, then trading into the back-end of the 1st to take Penix at pick 30. I have my reservations about Penix, but of all the rookie QBs, he is most similar to AOC. Maybe it could work out well structuring an offense to their similar strengths, and then letting them compete to earn and keep the right to run it (on bargain bin cap for both combined) for the next 3-4 years.

Put me on record in favor of this move. Penix unequivocally proved he can play the last two years at Wash. He throws the best deep ball of all the QBs in this class. His injuries are overblown.

I am so tired of witnessing this team pass on players over some overblown concern. It is still fresh in my mind that they passed on Davis last year. But even more painful is they passed on both Chris Jones and Tyreek because of concerns.

Just watched some Penix highlights , the kid can sling it BUT, can he run and scramble because that seems awfully important to a lot of people .

If the Raiders do draft Penix, he’s a lefty. They’re going to have to figure out their RT spot which has plagued them for the better part of a decade. Kolton will no longer be the blindside protector.

 

[Bruno2]

Wilson allegedly going to the Steelers

Dodged a bullet there….

 

[Chadstroma]

I don't think we can roll into the new year with a rookie QB (assuming the plan is to draft one) and AOC and no vet option. I kind of like the idea of going after Darnold. I have felt like he is a better QB than what we have seen in the NFL. I have to figure we could get him for a decent contract too.

 

[ICON211]

I don't think we can roll into the new year with a rookie QB (assuming the plan is to draft one) and AOC and no vet option. I kind of like the idea of going after Darnold. I have felt like he is a better QB than what we have seen in the NFL. I have to figure we could get him for a decent contract too.

I agree with this and is why I didn't agree with the Mac Jones talk. A steady vet that the other QBS can learn from is what is probably needed if it's AOC and a rookie.

The move last year should have been to re-sign Stidham. That was a huge mistake to bring in Jimmy G and let him walk for very affordable money.

 

[massraider]

Wilkins to the Raiders baby

 

[ChiefD]

Raiders getting Wilkins is a nice get.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

Hey now! Wilkins!

 

[ZADO]

Christian Wilkins Is A One Man Wrecking Crew | Beau Allen Breakdown

This was just before the Raiders grabbed him, great breakdown by Chris Long , Howies son

 

[kaso]

I may or may not have had a visible reaction to the Wilkins news while on a work Google meet call.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Sad day for Miami...when you draft a guy 1st Rd and he does evereything you ever wanted,
played out his 5th year option and then you just watch a Pro Bowl level DT leave...can't take Miami seriously trying to compete for anything this year.

He's going to pair nice with Maxx Crosby
Sad day for Miami

 

[ZADO]

Sad day for Miami...when you draft a guy 1st Rd and he does evereything you ever wanted,
played out his 5th year option and then you just watch a Pro Bowl level DT leave...can't take Miami seriously trying to compete for anything this year.

He's going to pair nice with Maxx Crosby
Sad day for Miami

As hard as i try i just cant feel bad for Miami

 

[kaso]

Worth the watch on Wilkins

 

[kaso]

Christian Wilkins is one of Renfrow's best friends?