2024 Summer of Soccer - Euro's, Copa America, Olympics, WCQing (2 Viewers)

[Sammy3469]

Obviously its not ALL on Greg. Some of these guys have stagnated and others maybe just were never as good as we thought they were/could be. Missing Dest hurt. Weah's brain fart was a bad break. Greg didn't make Horvath play dodgeball on the last Panama goal.

But when a team CONSISTENTLY under-performs relative to their talent level (and based on where our guys play, that certainly seems to be the case) its the coach/system.

He's a wet mop of a coach who strives for bare minimum results. We saw it in the way he set up the team for away games in WCQ and nothing has changed.

The absolute best this group has ever looked offensively was when some guy named BJ who played at a D3 school was running things on a temporary basis.

But it wont matter.....because he's nice to the core players (who spoke up for him) and the cronies at US soccer are all friends with him and his brother.

FWIW… I don’t think we underperform, we simply play to our level (and Panama hasn’t been much worse than us lately).

Part of the problem is that any nation that steps on the field with us knows what we are going to do tactically. They’ve known it for 6 years and good teams with good tactical coaches exploit that predictably. Take today, Uruguay thought they could handle the press and compete. Didn’t work and they adjusted after 20 minutes. We didn’t adjust to their adjustment until we subbed on Sargent in the second half.

 

[General Malaise]

I'll go on the record. I like capella and gm a lot.

I don't like hyperbole or hot takes.

I love you, but you don't have a monopoly on what counts for good or bad soccer takes. Calling somebody dumb for having an opinion is beneath you.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

xG was 1.4 to .56

Half that had to be on the offside goal though.

 

[El Floppo]

But you seem bent on the hot takes, so I'll back away and leave you them. I find them stupid.

Hey man I’ve talked to you for years on this board. Never called you dumb or stupid or even been a prick to you. Your behavior here is way more out of line than mine. I’m just giving my opinion. Last I checked we can still do that.

We cleared it up I hope... But I was calling out the comment, not you.

 

[General Malaise]

Eh, we're all frustrated. Sun comes up tomorrow, on to the next.

 

[El Floppo]

I'll go on the record. I like capella and gm a lot.

I don't like hyperbole or hot takes.

I love you, but you don't have a monopoly on what counts for good or bad soccer takes. Calling somebody dumb for having an opinion is beneath you.

I never called YOU dumb. You guys are whinier than us hard core fans are right now.

 

[General Malaise]

And yeah, fire that crappy coach who looks like he was outfitted by JC Penny.

 

[prefontaine]

Rob Stone is right - we were reduced to hoping Bolivia would get a result for us.

I thought that was harsh, and the "I watched more of Bolivia than I watched of us because I knew we couldn't do it" was obviously hyperbole by him.

We outplayed Uruguay for at least the 1st half. I wouldn't be surprised if our XG was higher than Uruguay's. Obviously a hugely disappointing result and Berhalter has to go but let's not pretend we watched the first 70 minutes of this game thinking we didn't have a good chance of winning.

Our xG was 0.56 to their 1.4 per FotMob. We were under 0.25 with 3 total shots until we just started pumping the ball in at the end.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

In particular, McKennie was out worked in duels.

His 3 game totals
4/18 in ground duels
2/12 in aerial

I keep saying it -- he's not defensive enough to play as a two-way 8. And neither is Reyna. They're both offensive, attacking players.

 

[⚡DEADHEAD⚡]

This post game commentary is on the money.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

xG was 1.4 to .56

Half that had to be on the offside goal though.

And another 3rd at least from the yellow card where the ref let them play illegally.

I can't really think of any good chances they created beyond those 2, neither of which should have counted.

 

[General Malaise]

I'll go on the record. I like capella and gm a lot.

I don't like hyperbole or hot takes.

I love you, but you don't have a monopoly on what counts for good or bad soccer takes. Calling somebody dumb for having an opinion is beneath you.

I never called YOU dumb. You guys are whinier than us hard core fans are right now.

Yeah I know you didn't call me dumb. I never implied you did. Not once.

We move on.


Well, not USMNT but those of us with work tomorrow do.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

In particular, McKennie was out worked in duels.

His 3 game totals
4/18 in ground duels
2/12 in aerial

I keep saying it -- he's not defensive enough to play as a two-way 8. And neither is Reyna. They're both offensive, attacking players.

I thought Reyna has been pretty solid defensively the last two games, especially for a guy who's stigma is that he doesn't help on D. He was tracking back a lot and winning balls in our own 3rd the last couple games. A lot more than McKennie.

 

[mr. furley]

USMNT just getting savaged by the ESPN FC team

probably a better listen than Lalas, etc

 

[El Floppo]

I'll go on the record. I like capella and gm a lot.

I don't like hyperbole or hot takes.

I love you, but you don't have a monopoly on what counts for good or bad soccer takes. Calling somebody dumb for having an opinion is beneath you.

Gm. If I came into something you lived, breathed and genuinely knew a lot about... And I clearly didn't... And said some **** that was wrong and hot takey... You'd be good? You wouldn't call it out? Given the hot takes, I genuinely don't believe that.

 

[The Gator]

And yeah, fire that crappy coach who looks like he was outfitted by JC Penny.

From @Dinsy Ejotuz 's avatar, he's season 8 Gregory House

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

humiliated

Lol... Dumb hot take.

Sorry I was also referencing 2018 qualifying where they didn’t make the WC. That wasn’t humiliating at all.

USMNT is like their child. They can criticize it but God forbid an occasional fan do it or there'll be hell to pay.

Hell to pay?

I'm calling him out for saying something dumb.

What did he say that warranted you calling his statement "dumb"? That they were "humiliated"? Just say you disagree....no need to call his statement "dumb".

He's not the only casual soccer fan who feels the way he does.

I’m sure I’d get called dumb in the NBA thread. I’m not wading into the specific exchange. I’m lazy and I don’t have any desire to look it up. And it’s not as if the casuals are saying anything different than the regulars for this tournament. Everyone’s out for Gregg’s blood.

But I will make just one observation. I dont think anyone here, including us vets, have any real great idea of how to make the USMNT take the next step. Of who should be the coach instead of Gregg. Of who is actually a realistic target at all. Or of how the team should be setup differently. And I don’t think that just getting angry is very productive.

 

[El Floppo]

In particular, McKennie was out worked in duels.

His 3 game totals
4/18 in ground duels
2/12 in aerial

I keep saying it -- he's not defensive enough to play as a two-way 8. And neither is Reyna. They're both offensive, attacking players.

I thought Reyna has been pretty solid defensively the last two games, especially for a guy who's stigma is that he doesn't help on D. He was tracking back a lot and winning balls in our own 3rd the last couple games. A lot more than McKennie.

I'm still not loving his concept of shape defensively... Feel like the ball had a lot of joy in his side. But he was much better for sure.

Swag is the real concern for me, as you say.

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

What did happen to Balo? We had the volume down and I never heard.

Hip pointer.

 

[NewlyRetired]

Ok, certainly kidding here, just tying to bring some levity to an angry crowd:

Canada advanced when playing MLS players
Uruguay advanced when playing MLS players
Argentina advanced when playing MLS players
Ecuador advanced when playing MLS players
Venezuela advanced when playing MLS players

US and Mexico played MLS players zero minutes

 

[the moops]

Rob Stone is right - we were reduced to hoping Bolivia would get a result for us.

I thought that was harsh, and the "I watched more of Bolivia than I watched of us because I knew we couldn't do it" was obviously hyperbole by him.

We outplayed Uruguay for at least the 1st half. I wouldn't be surprised if our XG was higher than Uruguay's. Obviously a hugely disappointing result and Berhalter has to go but let's not pretend we watched the first 70 minutes of this game thinking we didn't have a good chance of winning.

Our xG was 0.56 to their 1.4 per FotMob. We were under 0.25 with 3 total shots until we just started pumping the ball in at the end.

i dont't follow soccer. What the hell are these numbers? xG? Fotmob?

 

[SpurrierisisGod]

Look, it's not that the US is out of a tournament (that we are hosting...)
It's that we haven't shown an ability to pull some kind of run in '26. If we can't beat PANAMA (regardless of a red card or not) how can we put together any kind of run to the final 16 in the WC? In a must win game on our home soil we never really threatened. And the worst part is that there was nobody we could bring in to get that win.

Ream won't be there in '26. Who will replace him? The formation (that GGG refuses to move on from) isn't producing goals. Wish I could remember where I saw it but a good take was GGG is a good club coach - play my system or go away and playing favorites.

If it's not working, make a change. Any change. Something.

 

[El Floppo]

Would a 0-0 draw have been good enough, given the 3-1 Pan win?

 

[Capella]

But I will make just one observation. I dont think anyone here, including us vets, have any real great idea of how to make the USMNT take the next step. Of who should be the coach instead of Gregg. Of who is actually a realistic target at all. Or of how the team should be setup differently. And I don’t think that just getting angry is very productive.

This is understandable but shouldn’t whomever is in charge of the usmnt have a clue?

I’m a causal but I remember everybody being annoyed when they brought Gregg back. And now they wasted this primo chance of seeing what they could do before the WC with a new coach. Now we’re flying into 2026 blind.

 

[NewlyRetired]

Rob Stone is right - we were reduced to hoping Bolivia would get a result for us.

I thought that was harsh, and the "I watched more of Bolivia than I watched of us because I knew we couldn't do it" was obviously hyperbole by him.

We outplayed Uruguay for at least the 1st half. I wouldn't be surprised if our XG was higher than Uruguay's. Obviously a hugely disappointing result and Berhalter has to go but let's not pretend we watched the first 70 minutes of this game thinking we didn't have a good chance of winning.

Our xG was 0.56 to their 1.4 per FotMob. We were under 0.25 with 3 total shots until we just started pumping the ball in at the end.

i dont't follow soccer. What the hell are these numbers? xG? Fotmob?

xG is expected goals.

Fotmob is a site that tracks all soccer games with advanced stats

USA vs Uruguay - live score, predicted lineups and H2H stats

USA vs Uruguay on Tue, Jul 2, 2024, 01:00 UTC. Check live results, H2H, match stats, lineups, player ratings, insights, team forms, shotmap, and highlights.

www.fotmob.com

 

[El Floppo]

5w, 8d, 7L vs top 20 teams? Im shocked tbh.

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

Look, it's not that the US is out of a tournament (that we are hosting...)
It's that we haven't shown an ability to pull some kind of run in '26. If we can't beat PANAMA (regardless of a red card or not) how can we put together any kind of run to the final 16 in the WC? In a must win game on our home soil we never really threatened. And the worst part is that there was nobody we could bring in to get that win.

Ream won't be there in '26. Who will replace him? The formation (that GGG refuses to move on from) isn't producing goals. Wish I could remember where I saw it but a good take was GGG is a good club coach - play my system or go away and playing favorites.

If it's not working, make a change. Any change. Something.

Team will be younger in 26 than Pepe is for this Euros. It’s concerning that Ream’s club minutes dropped so much this season, but he still has to be a favorite to start in 26.

 

[El Floppo]

But I will make just one observation. I dont think anyone here, including us vets, have any real great idea of how to make the USMNT take the next step. Of who should be the coach instead of Gregg. Of who is actually a realistic target at all. Or of how the team should be setup differently. And I don’t think that just getting angry is very productive.

This is understandable but shouldn’t whomever is in charge of the usmnt have a clue?

I’m a causal but I remember everybody being annoyed when they brought Gregg back. And now they wasted this primo chance of seeing what they could do before the WC with a new coach. Now we’re flying into 2026 blind.

Exactly so.

Fwiw, the players all wanted GGG back and have his back.

 

[Sammy3469]

humiliated

Lol... Dumb hot take.

Sorry I was also referencing 2018 qualifying where they didn’t make the WC. That wasn’t humiliating at all.

USMNT is like their child. They can criticize it but God forbid an occasional fan do it or there'll be hell to pay.

Hell to pay?

I'm calling him out for saying something dumb.

What did he say that warranted you calling his statement "dumb"? That they were "humiliated"? Just say you disagree....no need to call his statement "dumb".

He's not the only casual soccer fan who feels the way he does.

I’m sure I’d get called dumb in the NBA thread. I’m not wading into the specific exchange. I’m lazy and I don’t have any desire to look it up. And it’s not as if the casuals are saying anything different than the regulars for this tournament. Everyone’s out for Gregg’s blood.

But I will make just one observation. I dont think anyone here, including us vets, have any real great idea of how to make the USMNT take the next step. Of who should be the coach instead of Gregg. Of who is actually a realistic target at all. Or of how the team should be setup differently. And I don’t think that just getting angry is very productive.

I think one issue they’ll run into is if they don’t make a change casuals will turn off and regulars will turn to casuals. Speaking for myself this is the first I’ve watched them since they rehired GGG and it was the same insipid soccer and tactics. At least now I only get frustrated every 2 years.

 

[NewlyRetired]

Would a 0-0 draw have been good enough, given the 3-1 Pan win?

No

 

[jabarony]

This was particularly scary, considering he gave nothing offensively as well.

====

Brian Sciaretta
@BrianSciaretta


In particular, McKennie was out worked in duels.

His 3 game totals
4/18 in ground duels
2/12 in aerial

Okay, good, my novice eyes that I saw him consistently losing any challenge. Glad the stats support that.

Agree. He was bad.

 

[Sammy3469]

5w, 8d, 7L vs top 20 teams? Im shocked tbh.

Take out Mexico

 

[⚡DEADHEAD⚡]

Since 1990, we have been to 8 World Cups and failed to qualify once. We have won a total of 6 games. We average less than 1 victory per World Cup, and we wind up scrambling for draws and hoping for outcomes elsewhere in the group stage. That's embarrassing.

 

[El Floppo]

5w, 8d, 7L vs top 20 teams? Im shocked tbh.

Take out Mexico

Lol... Pretty much all those wins out the window

 

[Capella]

But I will make just one observation. I dont think anyone here, including us vets, have any real great idea of how to make the USMNT take the next step. Of who should be the coach instead of Gregg. Of who is actually a realistic target at all. Or of how the team should be setup differently. And I don’t think that just getting angry is very productive.

This is understandable but shouldn’t whomever is in charge of the usmnt have a clue?

I’m a causal but I remember everybody being annoyed when they brought Gregg back. And now they wasted this primo chance of seeing what they could do before the WC with a new coach. Now we’re flying into 2026 blind.

Exactly so.

Fwiw, the players all wanted GGG back and have his back.

Speaks to the fact they respect him but results are results. I hope they make a change because this isn’t working but damn if I know who would.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

5w, 8d, 7L vs top 20 teams? Im shocked tbh.

That's actually not bad given we're probably 20-25 ourselves. The problem is that most (all?) of the wins are against Mexico.

 

[El Floppo]

Since 1990, we have been to 8 World Cups and failed to qualify once. We have won a total of 6 games. We average less than 1 victory per World Cup, and we wind up scrambling for draws and hoping for outcomes elsewhere in the group stage. That's embarrassing.

It would be embarrassing if we were Brazil, Germany, Argentina, France.... But we're not. So being one of the top 32 teams in the world and needing a break to advance, thats kinda the WC in a nutshell for most teams. And they've done well advancing.

 

[El Floppo]

But I will make just one observation. I dont think anyone here, including us vets, have any real great idea of how to make the USMNT take the next step. Of who should be the coach instead of Gregg. Of who is actually a realistic target at all. Or of how the team should be setup differently. And I don’t think that just getting angry is very productive.

This is understandable but shouldn’t whomever is in charge of the usmnt have a clue?

I’m a causal but I remember everybody being annoyed when they brought Gregg back. And now they wasted this primo chance of seeing what they could do before the WC with a new coach. Now we’re flying into 2026 blind.

Exactly so.

Fwiw, the players all wanted GGG back and have his back.

Speaks to the fact they respect him but results are results. I hope they make a change because this isn’t working but damn if I know who would.

None of us do. Especially since the men and women's coach now has to be payed the same. But there are out of work solid coaches out there... Just probably now out of our pay range.

 

[SpurrierisisGod]

Look, it's not that the US is out of a tournament (that we are hosting...)
It's that we haven't shown an ability to pull some kind of run in '26. If we can't beat PANAMA (regardless of a red card or not) how can we put together any kind of run to the final 16 in the WC? In a must win game on our home soil we never really threatened. And the worst part is that there was nobody we could bring in to get that win.

Ream won't be there in '26. Who will replace him? The formation (that GGG refuses to move on from) isn't producing goals. Wish I could remember where I saw it but a good take was GGG is a good club coach - play my system or go away and playing favorites.

If it's not working, make a change. Any change. Something.

Team will be younger in 26 than Pepe is for this Euros. It’s concerning that Ream’s club minutes dropped so much this season, but he still has to be a favorite to start in 26.

Funny, they were just mentioning "if this is Ream's final game with the US..."

 

[encaitar]

But I will make just one observation. I dont think anyone here, including us vets, have any real great idea of how to make the USMNT take the next step. Of who should be the coach instead of Gregg. Of who is actually a realistic target at all. Or of how the team should be setup differently. And I don’t think that just getting angry is very productive.

This is understandable but shouldn’t whomever is in charge of the usmnt have a clue?

I’m a causal but I remember everybody being annoyed when they brought Gregg back. And now they wasted this primo chance of seeing what they could do before the WC with a new coach. Now we’re flying into 2026 blind.

Exactly so.

Fwiw, the players all wanted GGG back and have his back.

Speaks to the fact they respect him but results are results. I hope they make a change because this isn’t working but damn if I know who would.

The issue is the pay. There are quite a few coaches out there that are incredible head coaches who are available... problem is they would cost $6-7M minimum(and some would be more).

The big issue with that is the equal pay agreement between the USMNT and USWNT. If we pay our head men's coach $7M, then the public pressure would be put on to pay Emma Hayes $7M as well and we can't afford to pay both.(probably can't even afford to pay one coach that much)

 

[Sammy3469]

5w, 8d, 7L vs top 20 teams? Im shocked tbh.

That's actually not bad given we're probably 20-25 ourselves. The problem is that most (all?) of the wins are against Mexico.

And the ironic thing is Tata showed everyone how to beat us tactically until that CB who could hit the long ball really freaking well went down with a major leg unhurt in one of games against them. Since then it’s been all GGG.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Maybe the real treasure was owning Mexico along the way?

 

[Capella]

x.com

x.com

Was this really what he was telling his players because if so I figured he was setting up a set piece or whatever.

 

[El Floppo]

5w, 8d, 7L vs top 20 teams? Im shocked tbh.

That's actually not bad given we're probably 20-25 ourselves. The problem is that most (all?) of the wins are against Mexico.

Sammy covered that

 

[FreeBaGeL]

But I will make just one observation. I dont think anyone here, including us vets, have any real great idea of how to make the USMNT take the next step. Of who should be the coach instead of Gregg. Of who is actually a realistic target at all. Or of how the team should be setup differently. And I don’t think that just getting angry is very productive.

This is understandable but shouldn’t whomever is in charge of the usmnt have a clue?

I’m a causal but I remember everybody being annoyed when they brought Gregg back. And now they wasted this primo chance of seeing what they could do before the WC with a new coach. Now we’re flying into 2026 blind.

Exactly so.

Fwiw, the players all wanted GGG back and have his back.

Speaks to the fact they respect him but results are results. I hope they make a change because this isn’t working but damn if I know who would.

I think they put way too much stock into how much the players liked him. That's the opposite of how it usually works in sports with good teams. As a Nole you'll get my reference to Ron Zook being extremely popular with the players while he turned in a bunch of 8-5 seasons, then Urban Meyer coming in and taking those same players to win a national championship while all the players hated him.

Carli Lloyd said something similar in the postgame tonight. "When we were winning all those championships on the women's team, we HATED our coaches".

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Since 1990, we have been to 8 World Cups and failed to qualify once. We have won a total of 6 games. We average less than 1 victory per World Cup, and we wind up scrambling for draws and hoping for outcomes elsewhere in the group stage. That's embarrassing.

Now do 1951-1989

 

[El Floppo]

Maybe the real treasure was owning Mexico along the way?

Easy to dismiss at this point, but it's still glorious.

 

[NewlyRetired]

Since 1990, we have been to 8 World Cups and failed to qualify once. We have won a total of 6 games. We average less than 1 victory per World Cup, and we wind up scrambling for draws and hoping for outcomes elsewhere in the group stage. That's embarrassing.

Odd take. Our ability to advance out of the group is something that is not easy even for the big teams. The whole mission in the group when your not the lead dog is to get out of the group by any way possible.

Not even the harshest critic should ever complain about this when teams like Italy, France, and Germany have failed to do so at times.

Now if you want to point out that we fail at the round of 16 that would be fair but that is ultimately the top 16 teams of that cycle and the US are just shy of that quality.

You could call it disappointing but I feel embarrassing is hyperbole imo.

 

[Sammy3469]

But I will make just one observation. I dont think anyone here, including us vets, have any real great idea of how to make the USMNT take the next step. Of who should be the coach instead of Gregg. Of who is actually a realistic target at all. Or of how the team should be setup differently. And I don’t think that just getting angry is very productive.

This is understandable but shouldn’t whomever is in charge of the usmnt have a clue?

I’m a causal but I remember everybody being annoyed when they brought Gregg back. And now they wasted this primo chance of seeing what they could do before the WC with a new coach. Now we’re flying into 2026 blind.

Exactly so.

Fwiw, the players all wanted GGG back and have his back.

Speaks to the fact they respect him but results are results. I hope they make a change because this isn’t working but damn if I know who would.

The issue is the pay. There are quite a few coaches out there that are incredible head coaches who are available... problem is they would cost $6-7M minimum(and some would be more).

The big issue with that is the equal pay agreement between the USMNT and USWNT. If we pay our head men's coach $7M, then the public pressure would be put on to pay Emma Hayes $7M as well and we can't afford to pay both.(probably can't even afford to pay one coach that much)

While I don’t believe this statement is true, there is a non-zero chance Gregg is the best they can get given the salary constraints.

 

[Capella]

But I will make just one observation. I dont think anyone here, including us vets, have any real great idea of how to make the USMNT take the next step. Of who should be the coach instead of Gregg. Of who is actually a realistic target at all. Or of how the team should be setup differently. And I don’t think that just getting angry is very productive.

This is understandable but shouldn’t whomever is in charge of the usmnt have a clue?

I’m a causal but I remember everybody being annoyed when they brought Gregg back. And now they wasted this primo chance of seeing what they could do before the WC with a new coach. Now we’re flying into 2026 blind.

Exactly so.

Fwiw, the players all wanted GGG back and have his back.

Speaks to the fact they respect him but results are results. I hope they make a change because this isn’t working but damn if I know who would.

I think they put way too much stock into how much the players liked him. That's the opposite of how it usually works in sports with good teams. As a Nole you'll get my reference to Ron Zook being extremely popular with the players while he turned in a bunch of 8-5 seasons, then Urban Meyer coming in and taking those players to win a national championship while all the players hated him.

Carli Lloyd said something similar in the postgame tonight. "When we were winning all those championships on the women's team, we HATED our coaches".

For sure. Sometimes you need a bad guy in there.