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2025 Detroit Lions: Game 1 Lions vs Packers. (31 Viewers)

Doesn’t matter...

5 holding calls, 4 on lineman - wiped out Green’s best run of the day, and a huge FD to Tate on third & 9.

Turned over a bad team 5 times & still barely eaked out a road win. 5-2 away from Ford Field.

Slay another great game, leads all CBs in interceptions, leading Pro Bowl voting - well-deserved first trip.

2 bad interceptions by Matthew but he had a decent day.

Ebron with a lost fumble but huge first half.

Front 7 got shoved around a lot.

#nobodycares

 
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:pickle:

I really like Coach Caldwell as a person. I would love for him to have more time to spend with his grandchildren. Think of the family, Martha.
I know it's 2 different roosters, but look at what the Rams are doing with a new coach. Sometimes a team needs to see others heads roll before they wake up themselves.

 
I know it's 2 different roosters, but look at what the Rams are doing with a new coach. Sometimes a team needs to see others heads roll before they wake up themselves.
Absolutely.

It was weird they signed the extension in secret, it was odd the details of the “multi-year deal” were never disclosed, but the latest leak seems quite intentional.

His job is in jeopardy. They wanted the public to know it was a minimal extension with a team option beyond next year. Caldwell’s contract was the number one topic the players talked about postgame.

I don’t care if they win out, they’re not getting help and I hope they miss the playoffs. I’m rooting for disruption & regime change. They have pieces in place but no matter what they add in the off-season, I don’t believe JC will take them deep into a playoff run.

 
Absolutely.

It was weird they signed the extension in secret, it was odd the details of the “multi-year deal” were never disclosed, but the latest leak seems quite intentional.

His job is in jeopardy. They wanted the public to know it was a minimal extension with a team option beyond next year. Caldwell’s contract was the number one topic the players talked about postgame.

I don’t care if they win out, they’re not getting help and I hope they miss the playoffs. I’m rooting for disruption & regime change. They have pieces in place but no matter what they add in the off-season, I don’t believe JC will take them deep into a playoff run.
I am thinking they are going to get rid of Caldwell after the season and the one year extension is a going away present from Martha as she likes him.  Another scenario I see is Caldwell stepping down as HC but staying in the organization as assistant to Quinn or something. 

 
You know how when Michigan has a bad year people start rationalizing and saying things like, "As long as they beat Ohio State, the season will be a success"? I'm starting to feel that way about Week 17 against Rodgers and the Pack.

 
Leroy Hoard said:
Well it least there is one more week to keep paying attention.
Go Bucs?

Essentially the only realistic chance for the Lions at this point:

- ATL to win no more than one of their remaining games (@TB, @NO, CAR)

- DET beats CIN in Marv’s Last Home Game (v. McCarron?)

- Matthew wins a TKO v. Mr. Rodgers at Ford Field in Week 17

21% chance

Sure, I finished my Christmas shopping, kids will be on vacation from school, and I’m retiring on New Years Eve.

#forwarddownthefield

 
Go Bucs?

Essentially the only realistic chance for the Lions at this point:

- ATL to win no more than one of their remaining games (@TB, @NO, CAR)

- DET beats CIN in Marv’s Last Home Game (v. McCarron?)

- Matthew wins a TKO v. Mr. Rodgers at Ford Field in Week 17

21% chance
Yes, this is pretty much it. A Buc win would be a huge step but the road is still long and bumpy.

 
I was at the game Saturday.  I was thinking a Saturday game at 4:30 and the crowd was going to be loud and wild.  It was by far the quietest game I have even attended.  Really do not know the reason as to why.

 
I was at the game Saturday.  I was thinking a Saturday game at 4:30 and the crowd was going to be loud and wild.  It was by far the quietest game I have even attended.  Really do not know the reason as to why.
What’s the temperature around Detroit today? Please don’t tell me two wins against patsies saved Caldwell’s job.

Fontes got sacked one season after his 4th playoff appearance in 5 years. Granted it was his second 5-11 team. 

There is reason to hope.

 
So if Atlanta wins tonight Detroit is eliminated?
Nope - that only gets ATL to 9-5; they could still lose @NO & CAR to finish 9-7, so Lions could still sneak in by ending the season with a 4-game win streak.

First 3-way or 4-way tiebreaker is win percentage H2H. DET went 0-3 v. ATL, CAR, & NO, so I think the ONLY scenario is to bypass ATL. Even if CAR & NO lose their last two (ATL/TB for both.)

Right? 

 
I guess that also means we cannot move up to the 5 seed?

Irrelevant, they’re 0-9 in WC Playoff games since 1982 and 0-11 in playoff road games since 1970.

The last road playoff win was 1957; came back from down 20 early in the third quarter at San Francisco. Almost five years before I was born.

 
Nope - that only gets ATL to 9-5; they could still lose @NO & CAR to finish 9-7, so Lions could still sneak in by ending the season with a 4-game win streak.

First 3-way or 4-way tiebreaker is win percentage H2H. DET went 0-3 v. ATL, CAR, & NO, so I think the ONLY scenario is to bypass ATL. Even if CAR & NO lose their last two (ATL/TB for both.)

Right? 
Yeah, after I posted that I spent some time on the NYT Playoff Machine. Easiest path is if Falcons lose two of last three (which could definitely happen). If they win two, then we have to start worrying about the Cowboys and the Seahawks, plus the Bucs beating the Saints in Week 17. It looks like it might be one of those situations with SEA/DAL where Detroit wins a three-way tiebreaker but not a two-way.

 
Yeah, after I posted that I spent some time on the NYT Playoff Machine. Easiest path is if Falcons lose two of last three (which could definitely happen). If they win two, then we have to start worrying about the Cowboys and the Seahawks, plus the Bucs beating the Saints in Week 17. It looks like it might be one of those situations with SEA/DAL where Detroit wins a three-way tiebreaker but not a two-way.
The Lions (8-6) have moved past Seattle for seventh in the NFC by virtue of their two straight wins, plus a second straight loss from Seattle on Sunday against the Rams. Both teams are 8-6, but the Lions hold the tiebreaker because of conference record. They would win the next tiebreaker too (common opponents).

So as long as they win out, they're in good shape with Seattle.

 
I guess that also means we cannot move up to the 5 seed?

Irrelevant, they’re 0-9 in WC Playoff games since 1982 and 0-11 in playoff road games since 1970.

The last road playoff win was 1957; came back from down 20 early in the third quarter at San Francisco. Almost five years before I was born.
Looks like getting the 5 will basically require TB to win out.  :lmao:

 
The Lions (8-6) have moved past Seattle for seventh in the NFC by virtue of their two straight wins, plus a second straight loss from Seattle on Sunday against the Rams. Both teams are 8-6, but the Lions hold the tiebreaker because of conference record. They would win the next tiebreaker too (common opponents).

So as long as they win out, they're in good shape with Seattle.
But why would they need the Cowboys to beat the Eagles?

Regardless, just cheer for the Falcons to lose two (while the Lions win out) and rest your brain.

 
I will be more excited about this win if the Falcons lose tonight.  Otherwise it was a meaningless win over a bad team. 

 
May not mean much, but I like Detroit’s chances of sweeping the Packers in 2017.

Dang....if they do that’s 5-1 in the division. Meaningless.

 
Go Bucs?

Essentially the only realistic chance for the Lions at this point:

- ATL to win no more than one of their remaining games (@TB, @NO, CAR)

- DET beats CIN in Marv’s Last Home Game (v. McCarron?)

- Matthew wins a TKO v. Mr. Rodgers at Ford Field in Week 17

21% chance

Sure, I finished my Christmas shopping, kids will be on vacation from school, and I’m retiring on New Years Eve.

#forwarddownthefield
And then what? They get a road game against the Rams or one of the NFC South teams that already beat them once. I hope they miss the playoffs and there is a coaching change.

 
May not mean much, but I like Detroit’s chances of sweeping the Packers in 2017.

Dang....if they do that’s 5-1 in the division. Meaningless.
Crazy isn’t it? They could actually go 5-1 and not make the playoffs. Preseason if you told me theyd be 5-1 in the division I’d assume a 1st rd bye and a home playoff game.  Just nuts

 
But why would they need the Cowboys to beat the Eagles?

Regardless, just cheer for the Falcons to lose two (while the Lions win out) and rest your brain.
Why do you really want to watch Gurley, Ingram, Kamara, Cam, Stewart, or CMac go off in another double digit playoff loss?

 
Crazy isn’t it? They could actually go 5-1 and not make the playoffs. Preseason if you told me theyd be 5-1 in the division I’d assume a 1st rd bye and a home playoff game.  Just nuts
How about 3-0 in Road division games - first time in franchise history. How many times you think the Packers or Vikings have done that? I’m gonna guess double digits for both. If they win Sunday, 6-2 on the road for the season.

 
Why do you really want to watch Gurley, Ingram, Kamara, Cam, Stewart, or CMac go off in another double digit playoff loss?
Reminds me of the old joke about how getting old sucks, but it sure beats the alternative. 

First of all, to be a Lions fan is to live with self-delusion. Second, I've never bought the notion that repeatedly losing in the first round of the playoffs is the worst thing in the world. You know what's worse? Repeatedly not making the playoffs. And I don't buy that you have to tear it all down before you can build it back up. I think you can make a better case that the more shots you get in the playoffs, the better your chances of going all the way. 

If the Lions squeak into the playoffs this year, that will be three times in Caldwell's first four years, which is nothing to sneeze at. And I'd much rather be in that situation than the Browns.

 
Reminds me of the old joke about how getting old sucks, but it sure beats the alternative. 

First of all, to be a Lions fan is to live with self-delusion. Second, I've never bought the notion that repeatedly losing in the first round of the playoffs is the worst thing in the world. You know what's worse? Repeatedly not making the playoffs. And I don't buy that you have to tear it all down before you can build it back up. I think you can make a better case that the more shots you get in the playoffs, the better your chances of going all the way. 

If the Lions squeak into the playoffs this year, that will be three times in Caldwell's first four years, which is nothing to sneeze at. And I'd much rather be in that situation than the Browns.
The problem is you are comparing a team that has been around for like 20 years to the Lions. 

It is something to sneeze at when they are the worst team in the playoffs year in and out and got their heads kicked in. 

Football is a sport where you can turn it around quick and don' have to tear it down to rebuild, but you can't go any where when your coach is a moron. The Lions will never win anything with him there, and another play off berth means he sticks around. Time yo just rip off the bandaid. 

 
The problem is you are comparing a team that has been around for like 20 years to the Lions. 

It is something to sneeze at when they are the worst team in the playoffs year in and out and got their heads kicked in. 

Football is a sport where you can turn it around quick and don' have to tear it down to rebuild, but you can't go any where when your coach is a moron. The Lions will never win anything with him there, and another play off berth means he sticks around. Time yo just rip off the bandaid. 
Ok, would you rather be Buffalo? They're mediocre every year *without* making the playoffs. Is that really better?

 
Ok, would you rather be Buffalo? They're mediocre every year *without* making the playoffs. Is that really better?
These situations aren't the same none of them are. If you believe in the GM, and I like him, then trust him to make his own hire.

Caldwell has proven to suck on game day and cost this team games. You don't keep a guy around because he gets you to the playoffs and bounced in the 1st round every year. Good teams try other things, there have been a ton of coaches that came off better seasons and have had better resumes that got fired. He sucks and you can't win with him. 

At least the Bills try something different. 

 
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These situations aren't the same none of them are. If you believe in the GM, and I line him, then trust him to make his own hire.

Caldwell has proven to suck on game day and cost this team games. You don't keep a guy around because he gets you to the playoffs and bounced in the 1st round every year. Good teams try other things, there have been a ton of coaches that came off better seasons and have had better resumes that got fired. He sucks and you can't win with him. 
Wait, are we debating whether Caldwell should keep his job or whether Lions fans should want to make the playoffs? Could have sworn it was the latter.

 
Reminds me of the old joke about how getting old sucks, but it sure beats the alternative. 

First of all, to be a Lions fan is to live with self-delusion. Second, I've never bought the notion that repeatedly losing in the first round of the playoffs is the worst thing in the world. You know what's worse? Repeatedly not making the playoffs. And I don't buy that you have to tear it all down before you can build it back up. I think you can make a better case that the more shots you get in the playoffs, the better your chances of going all the way. 

If the Lions squeak into the playoffs this year, that will be three times in Caldwell's first four years, which is nothing to sneeze at. And I'd much rather be in that situation than the Browns.
I think one and done in the playoffs is worse, especially when the regular season success is directly tied to having an easy schedule. This is the third time in 4 years that the Lions had one of the softest schedules in the league. The one year they didn't (2015), they went 7-9.

Caldwell will go .500 or worse every year he is the coach, if the Lions have a top 16 schedule. If he has a bottom 5 schedule, he will barely sneak into the playoffs and lose. 

 
Wait, are we debating whether Caldwell should keep his job or whether Lions fans should want to make the playoffs? Could have sworn it was the latter.
They are pretty much the same. If they make the playoffs the Ford's won't let Quinn fire him. You can't have one without the other. 

 
Is there a team in the NFC playoffs the Lions can beat?  The Lions are just too weak to do anything even if they by some miracle make the playoffs.  

 
I think one and done in the playoffs is worse, especially when the regular season success is directly tied to having an easy schedule. This is the third time in 4 years that the Lions had one of the softest schedules in the league. The one year they didn't (2015), they went 7-9.

Caldwell will go .500 or worse every year he is the coach, if the Lions have a top 16 schedule. If he has a bottom 5 schedule, he will barely sneak into the playoffs and lose. 
An NFL team's previous season's record determines precisely two of their matchups the following year. This year, for example, the Lions played the exact same schedule as the Vikings/Packers except that they faced NYG/AZ while Minnesota had Washington/LAR and GB had Dallas/Seattle. So I'm not sure how making the playoffs last year had a big impact on their season.

 
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An NFL team's previous season's record determines precisely two of their matchups the following year. This year, for example, the Lions played the exact same schedule as the Vikings/Packers except that they faced NYG/AZ while Minnesota had Washington/LAR and GB had Dallas/Seattle. So I'm not sure how making the playoffs last year had a big impact on their season.
Yeah I wasn't implying that it had an impact on the schedule. My point is that Caldwell can barely make the playoffs with an easy schedule. He's doing what you would expect any mediocre coach to be able to do. Beat sub .500 teams and lose to good teams. His record against teams over .500 is horrendous. And again this season he only has 1 win against a team over .500, the Vikings. 

 
I think the lions made two big mistakes with regards to this team, look at Warford and riley rieff playing well on other teams, they over spent on TJ land and Wagoner. 

Also the Tabor pick should of been a RB. move up a little for Mixon/Cook or take Hunt/Kamara. 

this is the failure of this team, poor oline and running. Still they are looking at a possible 10-6 season on the strength of the passing game and a really excellent secondary. I wonder how the defense would look with Ngata and a 100% Ziggy? Time to move on from Ziggy probably let someone else over pay

 
I think one and done in the playoffs is worse, especially when the regular season success is directly tied to having an easy schedule. This is the third time in 4 years that the Lions had one of the softest schedules in the league. The one year they didn't (2015), they went 7-9.

Caldwell will go .500 or worse every year he is the coach, if the Lions have a top 16 schedule. If he has a bottom 5 schedule, he will barely sneak into the playoffs and lose. 
An NFL team's previous season's record determines precisely two of their matchups the following year. This year, for example, the Lions played the exact same schedule as the Vikings/Packers except that they faced NYG/AZ while Minnesota had Washington/LAR and GB had Dallas/Seattle. So I'm not sure how making the playoffs last year had a big impact on their season.
SOS is kind of bogus IMO, but here's the deal:

  • 2014 - Caldwell inherited a .500 (16th hardest) schedule, and the Lions went 11-5. 2nd most wins in Franchise history. Instead of getting smoked in the playoffs, they blew a 14 point lead in Dallas - the biggest blown lead in a playoff game ever for the team.
  • 2015 - about the same, like .527 (15th), but front loaded. Came out unprepared week after week after week. Oh, played Seattle tough on MNF, lost on the batted ball rule not called, then tanked. At 1-7 and headed to London, fired the OC, O-line coach and the strength coach. Remind me if firing Mayhew was before or after that? After getting blown out by KC, had a bye, then "saved" his job with a 6-2 second half. Which included the most ####ed up loss in a franchise that has a long history of ####ed up losses, letting a sweep of the Packers and a 20 point lead evaporate in the 2nd half, phantom face mask call, untimed down, hey let's defend the sideline because what's Rodgers going to do, heave it 65 yards to the end zone? AYFKM?
  • 2016 - EASY schedule per the SOS, at least per the numbers - 27th hardest (e.g., 6th easiest), opponents were .469. Back half was harder. Team started 9-4, Stafford got hurt, started having to play decent instead of bad teams, lost 3 straight, got blown out by Seattle in the first round to make 4 straight when a MAC college flunky who hadn't played in three months ran right the #### over them for 169 yards (& never came close to having a game like that again.)
  • 2017 - relatively easy schedule, by the worthless SOS metric - 21st, opponents were .469. Started 3-1, only loss being the 1 foot short heartbreaker against ATL, then lost 3 straight to put themselves behind the 8 ball. Again. All three were against playoff teams. Carolina at home - sold out for the run, completely, and got smoked for 5-175 by a career Y TE because he was running uncovered all day. At New Orleans. You tell me - weirdest game I ever saw. Pittsburgh - got killed by JuJu, did OK versus Bell and Brown. Beat three toothless teams (GB without Rodgers, Cleveland and Chicago - although curiously, in each game they came out flat and played horrible in the first half (down 0-10 each game.) More of the same versus the Vikings. Next week got rolled by the Ravens - makes them 1-6 against playoff teams this year. Two more meaningless wins against lousy teams, chance to make it 3 straight and 8 wins overall against lousy teams this weekend.
So, yeah, by SOS it appears NBD if the finish 11-5, 7-9,, 9-7 (playoffs), 10-6 (86% chance no playoffs), but the CONSISTENT pattern is this: they can beat lousy teams anywhere or mediocre teams at home. But if it's a playoff caliber team, they can't compete. Which means year after year after year, you're gonna Marv Lewis results. 9 or 10 wins, 5 or 6 seed, first round WC road loss. 24 years without a division title, 26 years since their last playoff win.

 
I think the lions made two big mistakes with regards to this team, look at Warford and riley rieff playing well on other teams, they over spent on TJ land and Wagoner. 
You think those are mistakes? How about you account for the fact that on an offensive line with a first round LT and two vets who were Pro Bowlers elsewhere, but this year none of them are inside the Top 30 at their position. Meanwhile guys who were lousy here improved when they switched teams. You think that's a personnel mistake? That's interesting, because I look at the same thing and conclude the Lions coaching, the predictable offensive play calling, and the too-clever-by-half-blocking scheme doesn't put them in the best position to succeed. We are at a weekly schematic disadvantage. Do you think its players or coaches who are responsible for the week after week after week lack of preparation?

 
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Also the Tabor pick should of been a RB. move up a little for Mixon/Cook or take Hunt/Kamara. 

this is the failure of this team, poor oline and running. Still they are looking at a possible 10-6 season on the strength of the passing game and a really excellent secondary. I wonder how the defense would look with Ngata and a 100% Ziggy? Time to move on from Ziggy probably let someone else over pay
Sorry, I'm battling a bit of a flu bug and irritable. Also, Lions.

First point looks good in hindsight, it was SUCH a deep class. Gonna be one of the best ever for RBs. That said, I am warming to Tabor. Lots of great CBs (Norman, Sherman) had slow 40 times. He has been worked in slowly and been playing well the last few weeks. Diggs is a natural fit at SS and Tabor looks like he's going to turn out to be good going forward if he keeps honing his craft.

The poor o-line and injuries are excuses. You can find TONS of injuries on playoff bound teams. It's not because they have über talented rosters.

Agreed on Ezekiel, time to let him walk. Too bad but he can't stay healthy. Edge rusher is the number one need in the offseason, and need more depth on the D-line. Need more speed at LB as well.

 
I can’t take making the playoffs for granted the last few years but I agree. I don’t know whether to want continuity or if I want josh mcdaniels or something.

 
I can’t take making the playoffs for granted the last few years but I agree. I don’t know whether to want continuity or if I want josh mcdaniels or something.
I’m ready for Josh McDaniels or something. Someone mentioned it earlier, this type of continuity is the Bengals. No thanks. 

Bring in a new coach, draft a RB & D line and let’s take this thing to the next level. 

 
msudaisy26 said:
They are pretty much the same. If they make the playoffs the Ford's won't let Quinn fire him. You can't have one without the other. 
By that logic, you should just root for the team to go 0-16.

I'm not wired that way, and not just because I'm skeptical that a full-on Process-style tanking can work in the NFL. I think building a winning culture creates its own value. Also, as slim as the Lions' chances of winning the Super Bowl as the 6-seed would be, they would still be infinitely better than their chances of winning the Super Bowl if they don't make the playoffs.

msudaisy26 said:
These situations aren't the same none of them are.
Yes, obviously, every franchise's situation is different. Still, the original topic was whether Lions fans should root for *this* team, at *this* point in the season, to make the playoffs. We happen to have two very relevant points of comparison. Over the past decade, the Bengals have been a mediocre team that has made the playoffs multiple times under the same coach and lost in the first round. The Bills have been a mediocre team that has cycled through multiple coaches and has not made the playoffs. I can certainly see how you would not want the Lions to replicate the Bengals' track record. But I can't see how you can argue that such a situation would be preferable to emulating the Bills.

 
BobbyLayne said:
You think those are mistakes? How about you account for the fact that on an offensive line with a first round LT and two vets who were Pro Bowlers elsewhere, but this year none of them are inside the Top 30 at their position. Meanwhile guys who were lousy here improved when they switched teams. You think that's a personnel mistake? That's interesting, because I look at the same thing and conclude the Lions coaching, the predictable offensive play calling, and the too-clever-by-half-blocking scheme doesn't put them in the best position to succeed. We are at a weekly schematic disadvantage. Do you think its players or coaches who are responsible for the week after week after week lack of preparation?
Oh yeah crappy scheme and coaching isn't helping the run game

 
The Captain said:
I’m ready for Josh McDaniels or something. Someone mentioned it earlier, this type of continuity is the Bengals. No thanks. 

Bring in a new coach, draft a RB & D line and let’s take this thing to the next level. 
I don't want Josh McDaniels. He is another guy that needs a HOF QB in order to masquerade as a good coach. We already have that. Even Caldwell can make it to a Superbowl and lose if the team has Peyton Manning in his prime.

 
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Oh yeah crappy scheme and coaching isn't helping the run game
I don't know what the answer is TBH. I'm just an armchair fan like anyone else. I used to be a data driven FFer - which is a natural fit, I'm a CFO and CPA - but in the last 5-7 years Waldman and Harris have turned me into a film rat. This is just anecdotal stuff related to teams I studied a lot this year and I don't know exactly what the fix is for the Lions, but I think it's instructive to compare their run game with other teams.

Baltimore - the Ravens had as much or more O-line injuries than the Lions, yet when it came to the next man up, they seemed to not miss a beat. When the Lions have replacement starters, they typically (Mahalik was the exception) have been simply awful. Is that strictly personnel and talent? I don't know to be honest, but our depth has been non-existent.

Cincinnati - the only team in the NFL with a worse run game than Detroit. Some interesting comps - I think they had 3 new starters on the O-line this year. About mid-point in the year they started to gel as a unit in the run game. Like AA, Mixon was getting hit at the point of the exchange early in the year. Yet you could remain hopeful because every game he flashed elusiveness. One difference between the teams is CIN handed the reigns to the rookie almost completely; before the concussion, Mixon dominated touches over Gio. Hill was a starter in name only early in the year and has been out a long time, complete non-factor. Bernard has looked much better late in the year, I think his knee still wasn't quite right PS and early. I think this O-line has less talent than the Lions but we've seen progress. You can't say that about Detroit. The Bengals remain awful in pass pro.

Tampa Bay - another dreadful offense. The shoulder injury is going to be a catch all excuse, but Jamais really regressed this year. Obviously he looked great in his last game. The run game was non-existent while Martin was suspended. He looked great the first couple games. After that, it seemed like he was constantly being hit in the backfield. Maybe it wasn't all the line, though - they put two starters on IR, and in the same week they could open holes for Peyton Barber (Martin looked bad in the same game before he fumbled away his job.) Looks like they'll be a new lead back in 2017. Not a great line by any means but they can move people, something the Lions are unable to do.

Washington - another line beset by injuries. Samaje had a few good games but they have really struggled the last couple weeks. But when they are healthy they have a competent run game, even when Fat Rob was the lead back. Again, I don't think other than the LT they have more talent than Detroit.

Just seems like our line is incapable of opening up holes, and they're almost the worst in the league at pass protection. Lang and Wagner were good players before they came to Detroit. Both have been hurt a lot this year; early on, the right side was definitely the superior run blocking unit. I see other teams plug in reserves and even guys off from practice squads and still have success. That leads me to believe that Detroit's offensive line issues are not solely a talent issue. I think it's mostly coaching and scheme. When I see Warford and Reif doing better with their new teams, it really makes me question if our coaching staff is capable at all.

 
Just seems like our line is incapable of opening up holes, and they're almost the worst in the league at pass protection. Lang and Wagner were good players before they came to Detroit. Both have been hurt a lot this year; early on, the right side was definitely the superior run blocking unit. I see other teams plug in reserves and even guys off from practice squads and still have success. That leads me to believe that Detroit's offensive line issues are not solely a talent issue. I think it's mostly coaching and scheme. When I see Warford and Reif doing better with their new teams, it really makes me question if our coaching staff is capable at all.
Is it Bill Callahan who's currently considered the reigning OL guru? Similar to Marinelli with DLs, whenever he shows up teams tend to dramatically improve and outperform their talent level. (I think Tom Cable had that rep at one point, but the last few years in Seattle have dimmed his star).

Anyway, for all his faults, one thing Caldwell has done well is hire good coordinators, so hopefully he could either hire Callahan or find the next iteration of him. Because that run game has been underperforming for years.

 
By that logic, you should just root for the team to go 0-16.

I'm not wired that way, and not just because I'm skeptical that a full-on Process-style tanking can work in the NFL. I think building a winning culture creates its own value. Also, as slim as the Lions' chances of winning the Super Bowl as the 6-seed would be, they would still be infinitely better than their chances of winning the Super Bowl if they don't make the playoffs.

Yes, obviously, every franchise's situation is different. Still, the original topic was whether Lions fans should root for *this* team, at *this* point in the season, to make the playoffs. We happen to have two very relevant points of comparison. Over the past decade, the Bengals have been a mediocre team that has made the playoffs multiple times under the same coach and lost in the first round. The Bills have been a mediocre team that has cycled through multiple coaches and has not made the playoffs. I can certainly see how you would not want the Lions to replicate the Bengals' track record. But I can't see how you can argue that such a situation would be preferable to emulating the Bills.
Lol, no one said 0 - 16 and i never said tank. There is a time and place for everything, sometimes you have to take one step back to go forward. This is that time and almost everyone can see it. 

 
This site shows the 3 ways they can win out and instead make their final game a road loss vs. a winning team:

https://www.prideofdetroit.com/2017/12/18/16793890/nfc-playoff-picture-detroit-lions-playoff-scenarios-week-16
It sounds a lot harder than it is, I think. Assuming they win out, they need either Atlanta, NO, or Carolina to lose out. The good thing is that Atlanta plays NO next week, so one of them is losing.

With the NO and Carolina scenarios, they need Dallas or Seattle to win out, and they also play each other next week, so one of them will win.

So if the Lions win this week, I think it’s almost impossible for them to be emliminated. It will come down to week 17.

 

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