Agree or Disagree? Donald Trump Controls The Republican Party And Republicans Must Yield To Him (2 Viewers)

[crackattack]

I suspect you're right. But 30% is more than enough, right? 

Words like "controls" or "owns" may be too strong, but a very loyal following of 30% of a Party is quite large. Unless somebody else can figure out how to get to 31%, he's going to have some major influence. Maybe it happens in the next couple of years, but the path to that is certainly not clear. 

He's definitely going to be influential. His endorsement is going to carry some weight. If he doesn't run. Which i hope he doesn't.

 

[Stoneworker]

How does 19 Senators agreeing on one bill negate his influence?  

Please show where I stated he doesn't have influence. The thread is about control and yielding to said control.

 

[zoonation]

That's fine. It is not at all persuasive to refer to a few podcast episodes as evidence of control.

Much more persuasive is actual votes put on record which are in defiance of a so-called "controller's" direct instructions and admonitions.

Again, how senators vote on essential legislation is not persuasive evidence of who controls leadership in the party, what the messaging is, and who is going to run for president.  

Edit: I note that you conveniently failed to address the issue of what happened in the last year with 1/6 and election fraud.  He cuck’d the heavy hitters in the party.  

 

[zoonation]

He's definitely going to be influential. His endorsement is going to carry some weight. If he doesn't run. Which i hope he doesn't.

The last thing a king does is play king maker.  

 

[Stoneworker]

Again, how senators vote on essential legislation is not persuasive evidence of who controls leadership in the party, what the messaging is, and who is going to run for president.  

Sorry. If a someone who reputedly "controls a party" can't control how that party votes then de facto they don't have control of that party.

 

[The General]

Sorry. If a someone who reputedly "controls a party" can't control how that party votes then de facto they don't have control of that party.

He did have trouble on occasion getting on the same page for votes with Republican controlled Congress when he was Prez as well. 

 

[The General]

We’ll see how much sway he holds after elections in GA and AZ where he is pushing his chips in on candidates (Alaska as well but not as relevant). 

Hopefully his people all lose.

 

[Stoneworker]

He did have trouble on occasion getting on the same page for votes with Republican controlled Congress when he was Prez as well. 

I would have no problem if someone asserted that Trump controlled the GOP while he was president.

 

[zoonation]

We’ll see how much sway he holds after elections in GA and AZ where he is pushing his chips in on candidates (Alaska as well but not as relevant). 

Hopefully his people all lose.

Trump endorsed candidates win at an overwhelming rate in primary contests.  I think it is north of 90%.  

 

[Stoneworker]

We’ll see how much sway he holds after elections in GA and AZ where he is pushing his chips in on candidates (Alaska as well but not as relevant). 

Hopefully his people all lose.

Related question.

Does Joe Manchin control the Build Back Better bill?

And therefore the current Democratic legislative agenda?

 

[zoonation]

Related question.

Does Joe Manchin control the Build Back Better bill?

And therefore the current Democratic legislative agenda?

He obviously has enormous power given the current make up of the senate.  But, again, this is not at all relevant to who controls party messaging.  

 

[Stoneworker]

He obviously has enormous power given the current make up of the senate.  But, again, this is not at all relevant to who controls party messaging.  

You're right. Controlling the legislative agenda is more important than party messaging.

 

[The General]

I would have no problem if someone asserted that Trump controlled the GOP while he was president.

The point being that it isn’t always as simple as a isolating single vote down as a complete picture of who controls what. Complex political mechanism at work.

Trump got the government shutdown over 5 billion for his wall that discussion started when R’s controlled Congress. He never got it through. 

 

[The General]

Related question.

Does Joe Manchin control the Build Back Better bill?

And therefore the current Democratic legislative agenda?

I’m regards to this bill yeah he certainly has an outsized proportion of influence. 

Manchin can’t however go handpick people to run in other states…we’ll he could but no one would give a ####  

 

[zoonation]

You're right. Controlling the legislative agenda is more important than party messaging.

The GOP does not control any legislative agenda.  Which has nothing to do with the power apparatus in a party heading into midterm and presidential elections.  

 

[Stoneworker]

The point being that it isn’t always as simple as a isolating single vote down as a complete picture of who controls what. Complex political mechanism at work.

Trump got the government shutdown over 5 billion for his wall that discussion started when R’s controlled Congress. He never got it through. 

Understood. But when that single vote involves a) $1.2 trillion American dollars, b) is the first (and only) significant vote of the post-Trump era, c) gift-wraps the only legislative victory of a direct adversary's first term, and d) is in direct defiance of said controller's wishes then, yeah, it serves as adequate evidence of lack of control.

 

[Stoneworker]

The GOP does not control any legislative agenda.  Which has nothing to do with the power apparatus in a party heading into midterm and presidential elections.  

Sigh. The GOP completely controlled the bipartisan infrastructure deal. The BIP is legislation. Legislation is a component of a legislative agenda. A legislative agenda is why we have democratic parties.

Thanks for the conversation. Please go ahead and get in a final word so we can wrap this up.

 

[zoonation]

Understood. But when that single vote involves a) $1.2 trillion American dollars, b) is the first (and only) significant vote of the post-Trump era, c) gift-wraps the only legislative victory of a direct adversary's first term, and d) is in direct defiance of said controller's wishes then, yeah, it serves as adequate evidence of lack of control.

You have a very myopic view of what constitutes control of a party.  But we do t need to go on here.  We will see who controls the party in the lead up to the midterms, what the messaging of the candidates is, and who (no one) opposes Trump for the 2024 run.  

 

[The General]

Understood. But when that single vote involves a) $1.2 trillion American dollars, b) is the first (and only) significant vote of the post-Trump era, c) gift-wraps the only legislative victory of a direct adversary's first term, and d) is in direct defiance of said controller's wishes then, yeah, it serves as adequate evidence of lack of control.

I voted mostly in control. Mitch and company like getting money into their states as much as the next guy. They have the added cover of blaming Dems for spending now.

We’ll see how the R voters respond in the primaries if he runs. If he wins the nom it would be truly sad. 

 

[zoonation]

Appreciate the insult. Carry on.

Not meant as an insult.  But you are fixated on one piece of legislation, which any reasonable observer would agree was necessary, while ignoring many other data points in forming your view.  It’s the definition of myopic.  

But I’m on record with what I think we’ll see going forward this year and into 2024.  Happy to eat crow if I am wrong.  Would be delighted, actually.  

 

[Sea Duck]

The poll question itself seems like a bit of a straw man to me.

 

[Joe Bryant]

The poll question itself seems like a bit of a straw man to me.

Sorry to hear you think that. 

The statement about Trump controlling the party had been made several times recently and I thought it would be interesting to see how widespread that sentiment was for the rest of the forum.  

 

[AAABatteries]

We’ll see how much sway he holds after elections in GA and AZ where he is pushing his chips in on candidates (Alaska as well but not as relevant). 

Hopefully his people all lose.

I'm not sure how much of a barometer GA will be.  Trump is almost definitely backing Perdue who isn't a candidate in the mold of MTG, Jordan, Gaetz, etc.  He was a mostly well-liked Senator for 6 years and barely lost to Ossoff while being drug down by Trump.  Because of his name (cousin is Sonny Perdue) he could easily defeat Kemp, IMO. 

 

[Sea Duck]

The poll question itself seems like a bit of a straw man to me.

Sorry to hear you think that. 

The statement about Trump controlling the party had been made several times recently and I thought it would be interesting to see how widespread that sentiment was for the rest of the forum.  

I don't want to be the guy who says "LINK?" but it would be nice if you included sources that offered some context to the poll question.

Who is saying that Trump controls the party? If the answer is "random accounts on twitter" and/or "posters in the PSF" then I would stand by my statement that the poll seems strawman-ish.

 

[Joe Bryant]

I don't want to be the guy who says "LINK?" but it would be nice if you included sources that offered some context to the poll question.

Who is saying that Trump controls the party? If the answer is "random accounts on twitter" and/or "posters in the PSF" then I would stand by my statement that the poll seems strawman-ish.

 

Of course it's from the political forum. That's why I asked the rest of the political forum. 

It was posts like this:

Any Republican who doesn't publicly say Biden stole the election is at risk of getting primaried by Trump and his loyalist.  It's complete servitude to one man or you're out of the party. 

If you think asking the rest of the forum if they feel like an opinion I see is a "straw man" then we'll just have to disagree.

 

[roadkill1292]

Yeah, that's not what a straw man argument is.

 

[sho nuff]

Yeah, that's not what a straw man argument is.

And the results of the poll show its a legit question.

 

[Stoneworker]

And the results of the poll show its a legit question.

The only legit thing the poll shows is that conservatives in this forum are far outnumbered by liberals and (so-called) independents.

And therefore the quantity and emotional energy behind liberals' opinions about someone who isn't even in their party should not be mistaken for quality and/or fact.

 

[Joe Bryant]

The only legit thing the poll shows is that conservatives in this forum are far outnumbered by liberals and (so-called) independents.

And therefore the quantity and emotional energy behind liberals' opinions about someone who isn't even in their party should not be mistaken for quality and/or fact.

I don't think I'd say that. There aren't any wrong answers here. I wasn't looking for "facts". I was simply looking for what the forum thinks on this question. And the forum answered. 

 

[Stoneworker]

I don't think I'd say that. There aren't any wrong answers here. I wasn't looking for "facts". I was simply looking for what the forum thinks on this question. And the forum answered. 

That's fine. I certainly wasn't looking to challenge your specific purpose as the OP.

But if other participants map opinions/results against the source of those results by political affiliation, and therefore glean additional insights (including the poll's legitimacy) then that's their prerogative too, no?

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

Oh my bad you're right, it's only 67%, bigly mistake by me.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/a-majority-of-republican-voters-actively-want-trump-to-run-for-president-again/

And let me guess, the Squad with ZERO bills passed and ZERO actual power will usher in an era of communism the likes the world has never seen.  Just like all of us radical leftist want, right?

You can keep believing whatever fantasy about the future of the democratic party that you want.  The truth about the Republican party here and now is that it's run by, for, and through Trump.  No one else has any power as long as he's the complete focal point of the party and it continue to be subservient to him.

I've voted Republican many times in my life and it saddens me to see it run off the rails so thoroughly due to the complete adulation of one man.  Hopefully things change over the next few years for both parties and the radicals fade away and the middle folks like Mitt and Joe sway policy. 

Im so not sorry for what Trump did to you. People like you are the only reason I hope he wins again. Just to see your unhealthy heads explode and watch grown “men” cry and scream like little babies. 

 

[zoonation]

The only legit thing the poll shows is that conservatives in this forum are far outnumbered by liberals and (so-called) independents.

And therefore the quantity and emotional energy behind liberals' opinions about someone who isn't even in their party should not be mistaken for quality and/or fact.

It’s not an “emotional” opinion.  It is one based on observation and fact.  I’ve laid out several examples that you choose to ignore.  The guy destroys anyone in the party, including it’s leaders, that attempt to stand up for democracy.  And the rank and file carry out the orders.  See:  Liz Cheney. And that all happened after he was out of office. 

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Im so not sorry for what Trump did to you. People like you are the only reason I hope he wins again. Just to see your unhealthy heads explode and watch grown “men” cry and scream like little babies. 

Sounds like a good reason to vote for someone. The hell with  what is best for the country, gots to own somebody.

Pitiful.

 

[The General]

Im so not sorry for what Trump did to you. People like you are the only reason I hope he wins again. Just to see your unhealthy heads explode and watch grown “men” cry and scream like little babies. 

If this is your reasoning Don had thousands of people spend their own money to travel to DC to freak out and have a giant pity party. Think of what happens when he loses again!

 

[Leroy Hoard]

If this is your reasoning Don had thousands of people spend their own money to travel to DC to freak out and have a giant pity party. Think of what happens when he loses again!

What's ironic is the GOPs best bet is to run someone else to limit the turnout but they are just too scared to do it.

 

[Stoneworker]

It’s not an “emotional” opinion.  It is one based on observation and fact.  I’ve laid out several examples that you choose to ignore.  The guy destroys anyone in the party, including it’s leaders that attempt to stand up for democracy, and the rank and file carry out the orders.  See:  Liz Cheney.  

Nothing you post can be taken seriously because you don't even understand what "control" means.

Out of one side of your mouth you've labeled it "disingenuous" when it's asserted that Democrats control the federal government. Do a Google search on "democrats control federal government" and report back.

Out of the other you say that Trump controls the GOP when in fact he is impotent against how the GOP votes on legislation.

Myopic. Disingenuous. Fixated. You're extremely good with ad hominem arguments and personal attacks so at least we can agree on that much.

Word comprehension? Not so much.

 

[AAABatteries]

Im so not sorry for what Trump did to you. People like you are the only reason I hope he wins again. Just to see your unhealthy heads explode and watch grown “men” cry and scream like little babies. 

"only reason"?? - seems like you should have a lot more than that to want to vote for someone to be leader of the free world.  If that's how everyone thinks then god help us.

 

[BladeRunner]

"only reason"?? - seems like you should have a lot more than that to want to vote for someone to be leader of the free world.  If that's how everyone thinks then god help us.

As opposed to the "ANYONE BUT TRUMP!!" only reason?

 

[BladeRunner]

Sounds like a good reason to vote for someone. The hell with  what is best for the country, gots to own somebody.

Pitiful.

If you voted for Biden, you didn't do it for "the best of the country".  You did it because "NOT TRUMP".

Spare us your fake outrage, please.  Thanks.

 

[BladeRunner]

What's ironic is the GOPs best bet is to run someone else to limit the turnout but they are just too scared to do it.

Do you have any idea what you're even saying in your post?  Because I don't.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

Sounds like a good reason to vote for someone. The hell with  what is best for the country, gots to own somebody.

Pitiful.

Um, you are aware that 99% of people who voted for Biden o ly did so because it wasnt trump, right? 

What’s pitiful and cute is you really think either candidate makes a difference. All this fighting you guys are doing in here means NOTHING. None of this matters. This country has long been bought and paid for. 

The same outside financial reasons Rome was ultimately taken down is the same thing that has already happened to this country. 

Unless you want to go into politics yourself, nothing you say or do matters when it comes to what happens or doesn’t happen to this country. 

Im going to live my life and enjoy what time I have left. You go ahead and get all riled up. 
 

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

If this is your reasoning Don had thousands of people spend their own money to travel to DC to freak out and have a giant pity party. Think of what happens when he loses again!

Gas goes up? Hypocrisy reins? Free stuff?

Oh my!!!!! 
 

If you are poor in this country you are hurting. Nothing new about that. If you have a little wealth- the small impacts aren’t that bad. 
 

ETA - you’re rooting for this like it’s a sporting event. Like the dem is whatever your favorite football team. 
 

It  (America that you think of) is over dude. It was a good run. 

I beg of you to stop the fighting and take a step back. You are upset and I understand why- but this is out of our hands. 

 

[BladeRunner]

Um, you are aware that 99% of people who voted for Biden o ly did so because it wasnt trump, right? 

What’s pitiful and cute is you really think either candidate makes a difference. All this fighting you guys are doing in here means NOTHING. None of this matters. This country has long been bought and paid for. 

The same outside financial reasons Rome was ultimately taken down is the same thing that has already happened to this country. 

Unless you want to go into politics yourself, nothing you say or do matters when it comes to what happens or doesn’t happen to this country. 

Im going to live my life and enjoy what time I have left. You go ahead and get all riled up. 

Good point.  I spend way too much time in here. 

 

[dkp993]

Im so not sorry for what Trump did to you. People like you are the only reason I hope he wins again. Just to see your unhealthy heads explode and watch grown “men” cry and scream like little babies. 

This is an interesting position considering these are THE defining qualities of the person your hoping gets re-elected.  

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

Good point.  I spend way too much time in here. 

All of you/us do. 
 

Live your lives. Love your loved ones. Enjoy the ride- we still have a little while longer, probably a few generations. But more than likely it’s coming to an end. 

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

This is an interesting position considering these are THE defining qualities of the person your hoping gets re-elected.  

I don’t want him to get elected because I think he’s going to make a difference. The people who hate and loath him are a soft people. At this point I root for chaos. 
 

“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.”

-G. Michael Hopf,

This is playing out now 

 

[The General]

Gas goes up? Hypocrisy reins? Free stuff?

Oh my!!!!! 
 

If you are poor in this country you are hurting. Nothing new about that. If you have a little wealth- the small impacts aren’t that bad. 
 

ETA - you’re rooting for this like it’s a sporting event. Like the dem is whatever your favorite football team. 
 

It  (America that you think of) is over dude. It was a good run. 

I beg of you to stop the fighting and take a step back. You are upset and I understand why- but this is out of our hands. 

I’m rooting for the US, I’m sure you are as well. I thought your post about just wanting to see the other team crying was out of sorts. 

Not to mention does anyone in politics cry more than Trump. Serious question, that guy is awful about that. It’s probably 50% of his material. 

 

[dkp993]

I don’t want him to get elected because I think he’s going to make a difference. The people who hate and loath him are a soft people. At this point I root for chaos. 
 

“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.”

-G. Michael Hopf,

This is playing out now 

While this has some truth it also doesn’t encompass everyone.  Some of us loath him because an awful human being and he represents the worst qualities of our country (narcissism, greed, lying, vapidness, etc etc etc) and we did so long before he was a serious contender for office.  

 

[The General]

I don’t want him to get elected because I think he’s going to make a difference. The people who hate and loath him are a soft people. At this point I root for chaos. 
 

“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.”

-G. Michael Hopf,

This is playing out now 

Do I get this right? Trump = chaos, hard times, then we become stronger?

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

Do I get this right? Trump = chaos, hard times, then we become stronger?

No