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Another plane crash: Germanwings A320 (1 Viewer)

General Malaise said:
George Jefferson Airplane said:
General Malaise said:
fred_1_15301 said:
I don't know why but I keep thinking back to the movie Naked Gun where Nordberg is hypnotized into assassinating the queen.
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I thought it was Reggie Jackson who was hypnotized into assassinating the queen?
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All black guys look alike?
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Well....yeah, but that's not he point. I take my Naked Gun knowledge very very seriously. It's an important film.
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:goodposting:

 
Fat Nick said:
tjnc09 said:
It seems like evey pilot should have an unique pass code that can override the manual lock. Pilot suicide isn't a new concept so it's strange that they make it impossible to get back into the c-pit if one of the pilots leaves. I know this was a "brilliant" idea after 9/11 but it was only a few years ago a pilot did the same thing intentionally crashing a plane full of passengers into the ground.
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So the logic here was that if somebody outside the cockpit had the ability to get inside the cockpit no matter what (i.e. against the wishes of whomever was IN the cockpit), that was a security issue. They could basically bring up passenger after passenger to the pilot outside the cockpit, and say, "If you don't use your code to open that door, we'll cut their throat." Until the pilot broke down and gave them the code. I get why it is the way it is...Having a minimum of 2 people in the cockpit at all times is a good step...
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As long as that person is bigger/ more powerful than the pilot.

 
What is the rationale for being able to completely lock the cockpit from the inside? You honestly think that the passengers at this point will just sit and wait out a hijacking at this point?

 
Ditka Butkus said:
Fat Nick said:
tjnc09 said:
It seems like evey pilot should have an unique pass code that can override the manual lock. Pilot suicide isn't a new concept so it's strange that they make it impossible to get back into the c-pit if one of the pilots leaves. I know this was a "brilliant" idea after 9/11 but it was only a few years ago a pilot did the same thing intentionally crashing a plane full of passengers into the ground.
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So the logic here was that if somebody outside the cockpit had the ability to get inside the cockpit no matter what (i.e. against the wishes of whomever was IN the cockpit), that was a security issue. They could basically bring up passenger after passenger to the pilot outside the cockpit, and say, "If you don't use your code to open that door, we'll cut their throat." Until the pilot broke down and gave them the code. I get why it is the way it is...Having a minimum of 2 people in the cockpit at all times is a good step...
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As long as that person is bigger/ more powerful than the pilot.
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Exactly. Is an FA (average weight maybe 120 lbs) that doesn't know how to fly a plane going to stop the lone pilot (or co-pilot) from carrying out their plans to crash if that's what they wanted to do?

 
Hu-Tang Clan said:
Ditka Butkus said:
Fat Nick said:
tjnc09 said:
It seems like evey pilot should have an unique pass code that can override the manual lock. Pilot suicide isn't a new concept so it's strange that they make it impossible to get back into the c-pit if one of the pilots leaves. I know this was a "brilliant" idea after 9/11 but it was only a few years ago a pilot did the same thing intentionally crashing a plane full of passengers into the ground.
Click to expand...
So the logic here was that if somebody outside the cockpit had the ability to get inside the cockpit no matter what (i.e. against the wishes of whomever was IN the cockpit), that was a security issue. They could basically bring up passenger after passenger to the pilot outside the cockpit, and say, "If you don't use your code to open that door, we'll cut their throat." Until the pilot broke down and gave them the code. I get why it is the way it is...Having a minimum of 2 people in the cockpit at all times is a good step...
Click to expand...
As long as that person is bigger/ more powerful than the pilot.
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Exactly. Is an FA (average weight maybe 120 lbs) that doesn't know how to fly a plane going to stop the lone pilot (or co-pilot) from carrying out their plans to crash if that's what they wanted to do?
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Arm the flight attendants!

What could possibly go wrong?

 
The news makes me wanna get one of these:

It still needs more work...looks clunky in the air.

 
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Walking Boot said:
TheIronSheik said:
Fat Nick said:
fred_1_15301 said:
Ditka Butkus said:
or maybe they can design an inflatable thingamabob for weight considerations that encapsulates the entire plane within a big rubber ball.
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Now you're just being ridiculous.
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They need to find out how to scale THIS up...
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Wow! Why isn't this on every small plane right now?
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This would be better.
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I thought about this immediately

 
The fact that they have this guy breathing for 8 minutes paints a really creepy picture. I just think of him sitting there, watching the plane get closer to the ground...people banging on the door with increasing urgency, the ground trying frantically to get in contact on the radio, and eventually, screams from the passengers as they see the Alps getting closer.

And through all of that, for 8 minutes, he just sits there and breaths. No talking, no wheeping, no saying anything, I'm sorry/eff you cruel world/praise Alah/etc.

Just silence.

Creeeepy as ####.

 
PatsWillWin said:
The fact that they have this guy breathing for 8 minutes paints a really creepy picture. I just think of him sitting there, watching the plane get closer to the ground...people banging on the door with increasing urgency, the ground trying frantically to get in contact on the radio, and eventually, screams from the passengers as they see the Alps getting closer.

And through all of that, for 8 minutes, he just sits there and breaths. No talking, no wheeping, no saying anything, I'm sorry/eff you cruel world/praise Alah/etc.

Just silence.

Creeeepy as ####.
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Amazingly determined and cold, but without any readily apparent motive. That is definitely scary and creepy.

 
culdeus said:
What is the rationale for being able to completely lock the cockpit from the inside? You honestly think that the passengers at this point will just sit and wait out a hijacking at this point?
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It's based on the assumption that the good guys are in the cockpit and the unknowns are outside the cockpit. Not really that hard to understand.

 
TenTimes said:
Harris said:
Seems like either they know more than they're saying or the prosecutor is making a snap judgment about this deliberate thing....

Is there any way the pilot could have passed out or had some other medical incident that would cause a steep descent?

They haven't found the data recorder so perhaps once that's found there will be more info, unless they have something not being released to the public.
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Was following this last night. They did find the data recorder but speculation was that because criminal intent is suspected they're going to keep anything they find confidential for now.
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Ah yes so they can prosecute the suspect, that makes sense.
 
Quez said:
The co-pilot joined the airline in 2013 right out of flight school. He only had 660 hrs logged.

Don't most of the US airlines hire ex-military? It can't be that easy to just go to a flight school and get a job sitting shotgun on an airbus.
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This is why I hate flying international. Pretty much any schmuck can do anything in Europe. That's why they're stuck being Europe forever.

 
Can we talk about what dipsh!t designs an autopilot in a jumbo jet so that it can be set to fly 100 feet off the ground?

 
I just want to thank the OP for starting this thread, it's basically the best thread ever and the OP should be commended for starting it.

 
Otis said:
culdeus said:
What is the rationale for being able to completely lock the cockpit from the inside? You honestly think that the passengers at this point will just sit and wait out a hijacking at this point?
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It's based on the assumption that the good guys are in the cockpit and the unknowns are outside the cockpit. Not really that hard to understand.
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The surprising frequency of pilot suicides

As leads dwindle and pressure mounts on international authorities to unearth some clue that would locate the missing Malaysian jetliner, U.S. officials have now turned to an unsettling possibility. The pilot killed himself.

“You have to ask the question,” one U.S. aviation official, who was not authorized to discuss the matter publicly, told the Post on Monday.

“Everything is on the table,” Steve Wallace, the former head of the FAA accident investigation division, told Bloomberg.

While incredibly rare for a pilot to kill himself — and everyone else on a plane — there is both national and international precedent for what experts call “aircraft-assisted pilot suicides.” According to Federal Aviation Administration data, 24 American pilots have killed themselves while flying their planes in the last two decades. Twenty-three of those pilots intentionally crashed their craft, and one student pilot jumped out of his plane mid-flight.

All of the pilots who killed themselves were male and middle-aged.

While none of of the American pilots who killed themselves were flying a big commercial aircraft, it has happened elsewhere.

In November of last year, a Mozambique Airlines E-190 jet carrying 33 passengers went down in Namibia. No one survived the crash, which became the subject of great mystery because the plane was only one year old, flown by an experienced pilot, in good weather.

According to cockpit voice recordings reported by the International Business Times, the co-pilot left to use the bathroom, and when he returned, he found the door shut. Inside, the pilot had switched the plane’s altitude reading from 38,000 feet to ground level, IBT reports. Recordings show someone pounded on the door to the cockpit as the plane plummeted. Investigators later concluded the plane had crashed because of “intentional actions by the pilot.”

Echoes of that tragedy were found in a pair of late 1990′s crashes. In 1997, more than 100 people were killed with a pilot or crew member forced a plane to crash in Indonesia. Two years later, a Cairo-bound airliner that plummeted into the Atlantic Ocean off Nantucket in 1999. All 217 passengers and crew were killed. During the plane’s tailspin, its pilot, Gamal al-Batouti whispered the Arabic phrase, “I rely on God,” — traditionally uttered moments before death.

Depression appears to be the leading cause of aircraft-assisted suicides, and in 2010, the FAA did away with a generations-old ban on pilots taking anti-depressants . The aviation agency, which has mental health restrictions for pilots, now can issue certificates permitting pilots to take Prozac, Zoloft, Celexa, and Lexapro, CNN reports.

But only such audio recordings and blackbox data about the position of an aircrafts tailplanes can lead investigators to a conclusion that a pilot killed himself.

For the moment, then, the Malaysian Airlines suicide question will probably remain unanswered.

 
I'm not normally the type to say things like this, but this story has made me regret, and feel lucky in hindsight about, using a budget airline to get my wife and I from Naples to Barcelona last year. I'm not sure where Vueling falls on the spectrum, as I did research the company a bit before booking, but seeing that this guy was considered qualified to fly that plane with such little experience is really shocking. And I say that knowing a guy can go nuts whether he's very new or very experienced. Sometimes it's worth spending a few extra dollars.

 
RUSF18 said:
I'm not normally the type to say things like this, but this story has made me regret, and feel lucky in hindsight about, using a budget airline to get my wife and I from Naples to Barcelona last year. I'm not sure where Vueling falls on the spectrum, as I did research the company a bit before booking, but seeing that this guy was considered qualified to fly that plane with such little experience is really shocking. And I say that knowing a guy can go nuts whether he's very new or very experienced. Sometimes it's worth spending a few extra dollars.
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Exactly why we always fly American or British Airways. Sometimes the planes can be a little shabby but I care more about the pilots and crew.

 
RUSF18 said:
I'm not normally the type to say things like this, but this story has made me regret, and feel lucky in hindsight about, using a budget airline to get my wife and I from Naples to Barcelona last year. I'm not sure where Vueling falls on the spectrum, as I did research the company a bit before booking, but seeing that this guy was considered qualified to fly that plane with such little experience is really shocking. And I say that knowing a guy can go nuts whether he's very new or very experienced. Sometimes it's worth spending a few extra dollars.
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People keep mentioning his experience/flight hours. I don't really see what that has to do with anything.

 
Fat Nick said:
Keerock said:
TheIronSheik said:
Time to think about banning planes.
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Or just pilots...
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To be honest, most of these planes could fly themselves from destination to destination completely autonomously. The issue is just how to program them to deal with unexpected events.

Maybe the safest route is just to fly them like you do with drones. The pilots sit in some building somewhere and never actually travel. Solves a lot of problems.
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I like my pilots to have a little skin in the game.

 
Christo said:
Fat Nick said:
Keerock said:
TheIronSheik said:
Time to think about banning planes.
Click to expand...
Or just pilots...
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To be honest, most of these planes could fly themselves from destination to destination completely autonomously. The issue is just how to program them to deal with unexpected events.

Maybe the safest route is just to fly them like you do with drones. The pilots sit in some building somewhere and never actually travel. Solves a lot of problems.
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I like my pilots to have a little skin in the game.
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Even when they're suicidal?

 
Otis said:
Quez said:
The co-pilot joined the airline in 2013 right out of flight school. He only had 660 hrs logged.

Don't most of the US airlines hire ex-military? It can't be that easy to just go to a flight school and get a job sitting shotgun on an airbus.
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This is why I hate flying international. Pretty much any schmuck can do anything in Europe. That's why they're stuck being Europe forever.
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Sheesh. The flight is only 1 hour 40 minutes long. A pilot on a good airline would have gone to the little boys' room before getting on the plane.
 
While French authorities are refusing to discuss Lubitz's religion, Christian websites are reporting that Lubitz was a recent convert to Islam.

It was said that Lubitz had a Muslim girlfriend. It is unclear if she was still dating Lubitz at the time of the crash. It is unclear if he met the woman through his Muslims friends.

One said that Lubitz had broken off the relationship after he pledged to commit Jihad for Allah.

We do know that Lubitz trained at the Lufthansa Flight Training School in Bremen, Germany.

Bremen is home to the Mosque Masjidu-l-Furqan Mosque:

This Mosque was raided by the police in December 2014

BERLIN, Dec 5 (KUNA) — German authorities have closed a mosque in the northern city of Bremen, after it was accused of encouraging youth to join the extremist Islamic State group (known as ISIL), which is carrying out violent killings across Syria and Iraq.

In unprecedented circumstances, more than 100 German police personnel carried out a search of Masjidu-l-Furqan and its accompanying cultural office, which had both been under police radar since 2007.

The decision comes amid the fight against ISIL ideology, Bremen Interior Secretary Ulrich Maurer said, accusing the mosque’s management of promoting ISIL values and encouraging young Muslims in the city to travel to Syria and Iraq, and join the ranks of the group, along with Al-Nusra Front – another extremist group in Syria.

The centre have so far succeeded in inspiring a total eight men, seven women and 11 juveniles to travel to Syria and join ISIL, according to the official.

Lubitz did his time in Bremen when the Mosque was under surveillance.


 
^^ Now, I'm not certain the co-pilot is a recent Muslim convert, but it is something worth looking into. If he was, the airline security game just got taken to a whole new level. These people have a bigger boner for airplanes than Christo, and - if true - they've discovered another way onto the plane.

There are a lot of people - especially in Big Media - who need to take the blinders off and recognize there is some segment (majority? plurality? small minority?) of Islam that is hell bent on the forcible conversion or killing of those unlike them.

If this is true, how big does the pile of victims have to be before you'll take notice?

 
It would seem weird, if this is true, that he didn't make any sort of statement about jihad, killing infidels, etc. The silence is odd. Guess we'll just have to wait on the rest of the investigation...

 
PatsWillWin said:
RUSF18 said:
I'm not normally the type to say things like this, but this story has made me regret, and feel lucky in hindsight about, using a budget airline to get my wife and I from Naples to Barcelona last year. I'm not sure where Vueling falls on the spectrum, as I did research the company a bit before booking, but seeing that this guy was considered qualified to fly that plane with such little experience is really shocking. And I say that knowing a guy can go nuts whether he's very new or very experienced. Sometimes it's worth spending a few extra dollars.
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People keep mentioning his experience/flight hours. I don't really see what that has to do with anything.
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That's the point I was making at the end there...if a pilot goes crazy, he goes crazy. But for the 99.9999% of other potential issues that can come up on a flight, most of which we might not even be aware of, I want my pilot to be well trained and have a high level of experience. This airline has a comparatively low standard of qualification...no good in my book.

 
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