Are Players Criticized Enough in the Pool? (1 Viewer)

[LHUCKS]

I create many more posts that criticize players than those that compliment players. I've done this for nearly 9 years because I've always believed that people subconsciously want to believe players are actually better than they are(for a multitude of reasons) which results in too much BS fluff on the board and not enough criticism.

Just curious what percentage of the pool sees it this way.

 

[Yitbos69]

I say they are criticized plenty in the Pool. No matter how fluffy and complementary a thread starts off there are a great number of posters who will give their criticism of a player.

 

[BigTex]

Hello Mr. Pac 10, when they are in college they are over-hyped and described as the next coming of Moses. When the make it to the NFL they are criticitzed and degrated for not living up to masses god-like fantasy.

 

[JohnnyU]

Too much of anything is not good.

What I see most in the Pool is hating on players (especially RBs) hoping they suck so the backup (their player) can take over as the starter. I'm guilty of this with Thomas Jones / Benson.

Another is all the jealousy of Peyton Manning and Tom Brady.

 

[BigTex]

Too much of anything is not good.What I see most in the Pool is hating on players (especially RBs) hoping they suck so the backup (their player) can take over as the starter. I'm guilty of this with Thomas Jones / Benson.Another is all the jealousy of Peyton Manning and Tom Brady.

Turner? I'm just pulling your chain.

 

[LHUCKS]

Hello Mr. Pac 10, when they are in college they are over-hyped and described as the next coming of Moses. When the make it to the NFL they are criticitzed and degrated for not living up to masses god-like fantasy.

Which Pac10 player have I been hyping this year? As an example, I set the board straight on Chris Henry after the initial 40 hype.

 

[JohnnyU]

Too much of anything is not good.What I see most in the Pool is hating on players (especially RBs) hoping they suck so the backup (their player) can take over as the starter. I'm guilty of this with Thomas Jones / Benson.Another is all the jealousy of Peyton Manning and Tom Brady.

Turner? I'm just pulling your chain.

Yeah, him too, but I was realistic with regards to Turner being traded in 2007 vs 2008. I still think SD is crazy for not getting something for him now rather than nothing to start the 2008 season.

 

[BigTex]

Hello Mr. Pac 10, when they are in college they are over-hyped and described as the next coming of Moses. When they make it to the NFL they are criticitzed and degrated for not living up to masses god-like fantasy.

Which Pac10 player have I been hyping this year? As an example, I set the board straight on Chris Henry after the initial 40 hype.

I'm not sure what you're talking about..........honestly. I'm just answering your question. I was calling YOU Mr. Pac 10 because YOU follow the Pac 10 more than anyone I know. Maybe I should have did it this way:Hello LHUCKS, college players are oftern over-hyped and described as the next coming of Moses. But, when they make it to the NFL they are criticitzed and degrated for not living up to the masses god-like fantasy.Better?

 

[coolnerd]

What I want is analysis. I want to know the strengths and weakness of player. so I can understand why I should or should not draft, trade, auction for a player. IMO, all threads the blank totally sucks or will be a bust are no better than than blank is an Uber stud or blank is the next fantasy god threads. It seems to me that most of those overly complimentary or over criticial threads all end badly.

 

[BigTex]

Too much of anything is not good.

What I see most in the Pool is hating on players (especially RBs) hoping they suck so the backup (their player) can take over as the starter. I'm guilty of this with Thomas Jones / Benson.

Another is all the jealousy of Peyton Manning and Tom Brady.

Turner?

I'm just pulling your chain.

Yeah, him too, but I was realistic with regards to Turner being traded in 2007 vs 2008. I still think SD is crazy for not getting something for him now rather than nothing to start the 2008 season.

I agree.

 

[LHUCKS]

What I want is analysis. I want to know the strengths and weakness of player. so I can understand why I should or should not draft, trade, auction for a player. IMO, all threads the blank totally sucks or will be a bust are no better than than blank is an Uber stud or blank is the next fantasy god threads. It seems to me that most of those overly complimentary or over criticial threads all end badly.

At the end of the day 95% of playes are overrated or Underrated in terms of fantasy football.

 

[RC94]

Too much of anything is not good.What I see most in the Pool is hating on players (especially RBs) hoping they suck so the backup (their player) can take over as the starter. I'm guilty of this with Thomas Jones / Benson.Another is all the jealousy of Peyton Manning and Tom Brady.

I agree. It seems to me that a lot of the comments around here are from people with an agenda, and are not necessarily honest analysis/evaluations. I tend to take most thread in the SP with a big grain of salt.

 

[phthalatemagic]

I create many more posts that criticize players than those that compliment players. I've done this for nearly 9 years because I've always believed that people subconsciously want to believe players are actually better than they are(for a multitude of reasons) which results in too much BS fluff on the board and not enough criticism. Just curious what percentage of the pool sees it this way.

It depends on which clique you belong to here.

 

[Biabreakable]

I think you have a good point. I find myself more often than not saying things like "maybe if everything works out this guy will be okay" instead of just using less tact and saying "I think this guy has a slim chance in hell of being good".

It has to do with the fact that I don't want to overlook any player possibly being useful to me in drafted late enough for example or if the player ends up in a more favorable situation than I expect.

I tend to be a positive person more than negtive and talk about good things more than bad. Bad things are not somthing I choose to focus on or remember as much.

At the same time I do make an effort to do reality checks when I see optimism getting out of hand.

 

[coolnerd]

What I want is analysis. I want to know the strengths and weakness of player. so I can understand why I should or should not draft, trade, auction for a player. IMO, all threads the blank totally sucks or will be a bust are no better than than blank is an Uber stud or blank is the next fantasy god threads. It seems to me that most of those overly complimentary or over criticial threads all end badly.

At the end of the day 95% of playes are overrated or Underrated in terms of fantasy football.

Yes, in relative terms. Most are only shades of either. Overselling the bust or stud factor of any player is silliness to me and does not make me a better player. Even player i don't care for has a cost where i would draft them and conversely no matter how much I think someone is undervalued there is a point here he costs too much to obtain. Real analysis gives me a better chance of determining the proper value. Even though I won't hit any player exactly, I want to get it corect as many times as possible.

 

[Biabreakable]

I do agree with coolnerd that if your going to talk about the pros and cons of a player at least bring some reasons with you. Anything else is just noise and doesen't help people understand what you are seeing.

There are plenty of times when I am wrong about a player or situation, but there are reasons why I come to the conclusions I do.

Somthing I think you should do a better job of explaining LHUCKS when you take a stand on players or situations. Joffer one liners do not cut it in that situation.

 

[cstu]

Too much of anything is not good.What I see most in the Pool is hating on players (especially RBs) hoping they suck so the backup (their player) can take over as the starter. I'm guilty of this with Thomas Jones / Benson.Another is all the jealousy of Peyton Manning and Tom Brady.

Turner? I'm just pulling your chain.

Yeah, him too, but I was realistic with regards to Turner being traded in 2007 vs 2008. I still think SD is crazy for not getting something for him now rather than nothing to start the 2008 season.

Winning a Super Bowl is the main concern for the Chargers right now so I understand passing on a pick for a player who can help them get there this year. Also, it may not be much but they'll probably end up with a 3rd round comp pick in 2009 if Turner leaves as a FA.

 

[cstu]

Too much of anything is not good.What I see most in the Pool is hating on players (especially RBs) hoping they suck so the backup (their player) can take over as the starter. I'm guilty of this with Thomas Jones / Benson.Another is all the jealousy of Peyton Manning and Tom Brady.

Turner? I'm just pulling your chain.

Yeah, him too, but I was realistic with regards to Turner being traded in 2007 vs 2008. I still think SD is crazy for not getting something for him now rather than nothing to start the 2008 season.

Winning a Super Bowl is the main concern for the Chargers right now so I understand passing on a pick for a player who can help them get there this year. Also, it may not be much but they'll probably end up with a 3rd round comp pick in 2009 if Turner leaves as a FA.

 

[LHUCKS]

Somthing I think you should do a better job of explaining LHUCKS when you take a stand on players or situations. Joffer one liners do not cut it in that situation.

I don't feel the need to write a dissertation...sometimes I just want to give my opinion. If people want to learn more about a player they should do their own research.

 

[Biabreakable]

Somthing I think you should do a better job of explaining LHUCKS when you take a stand on players or situations. Joffer one liners do not cut it in that situation.

I don't feel the need to write a dissertation...sometimes I just want to give my opinion. If people want to learn more about a player they should do their own research.

Thanks for sharing. The SP is a message board where we compare notes on players and situations so that time can be compacted and more knowledge can be gained.If that not why you here then what is your motivation?

 

[LHUCKS]

If that not why you here then what is your motivation?

To discuss ff...sometimes my posts are long...sometimes my post have one sentence conclusions...neither are discouraged here.

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

The SP has a lot of Sharks who post often.

What do Sharks want to talk about, especially in the offseason?

Marginal players who could break out and/or players that could excel in the right system or given the opportunity.

Put another way, we all know LT2 is good. So is Peyton. We could walk down the Top 40-50 players and we'd all be right as to whom should be there (or about 90% in agreement) and just be debating order. SJax at 2 or 3? Roy Williams or Marques Colston?

Talking about upside is about finding that next player to emerge, and often elicits more responses.

Tearing down a prospect or a player that is (in your opinion) overrated is not easy to debate. It's often subjective and even if you present a good case, it's an uphill battle vs. vocal supporters of that player and not many want to take that on. I encourage all discussions.

 

[LHUCKS]

Tearing down a prospect or a player that is (in your opinion) overrated is not easy to debate. It's often subjective and even if you present a good case, it's an uphill battle vs. vocal supporters of that player and not many want to take that on. I encourage all discussions.

X 100The beauty of that post is that all the whiny tools that get butthurt when you criticize their dynasty player(insert any reason why a shark tool is emotionally attached to a player ) don't even understand what Jeff just posted.

 

[coolnerd]

Somthing I think you should do a better job of explaining LHUCKS when you take a stand on players or situations. Joffer one liners do not cut it in that situation.

I don't feel the need to write a dissertation...sometimes I just want to give my opinion. If people want to learn more about a player they should do their own research.

I am speaking generally, but I really only care about your (or any other poster's) only in relation to why it is different than my opinion. In other words, I don't give a darn that you think Antonio Pittman will be a scatback in the pros, but the reasons you think he is no more than a third down back are what matter.

 

[LHUCKS]

Somthing I think you should do a better job of explaining LHUCKS when you take a stand on players or situations. Joffer one liners do not cut it in that situation.

I don't feel the need to write a dissertation...sometimes I just want to give my opinion. If people want to learn more about a player they should do their own research.

I am speaking generally, but I really only care about your (or any other poster's) only in relation to why it is different than my opinion. In other words, I don't give a darn that you think Antonio Pittman will be a scatback in the pros, but the reasons you think he is no more than a third down back are.

But that is just you, other people do care about my opinions that don't have analysis and that is why I post them, not to mention I enjoy sharing my opinion. As for A. Pittman, I have already posted opinions in other threads regarding his talents and don't feel the need to repeat myself in the sixth Antonio Pittman thread.

 

[coolnerd]

Somthing I think you should do a better job of explaining LHUCKS when you take a stand on players or situations. Joffer one liners do not cut it in that situation.

I don't feel the need to write a dissertation...sometimes I just want to give my opinion. If people want to learn more about a player they should do their own research.

I am speaking generally, but I really only care about your (or any other poster's) only in relation to why it is different than my opinion. In other words, I don't give a darn that you think Antonio Pittman will be a scatback in the pros, but the reasons you think he is no more than a third down back are.

But that is just you, other people do care about my opinions that don't have analysis and that is why I post them, not to mention I enjoy sharing my opinion. As for A. Pittman, I have already posted opinions in other threads regarding his talents and don't feel the need to repeat myself in the sixth Antonio Pittman thread.

The truth is you (as does any regular message board poster) enjoy sharing you opinion more than others enjoy hearing them. ...I was just busting your chops a bit about the Pittman thing, but if we regulars already know your detailed opinion, there is no need for you to drop in a one-line zinger either, except as a bit to get a reaction.

 

[Biabreakable]

Somthing I think you should do a better job of explaining LHUCKS when you take a stand on players or situations. Joffer one liners do not cut it in that situation.

I don't feel the need to write a dissertation...sometimes I just want to give my opinion. If people want to learn more about a player they should do their own research.

I am speaking generally, but I really only care about your (or any other poster's) only in relation to why it is different than my opinion. In other words, I don't give a darn that you think Antonio Pittman will be a scatback in the pros, but the reasons you think he is no more than a third down back are.

But that is just you, other people do care about my opinions that don't have analysis and that is why I post them, not to mention I enjoy sharing my opinion. As for A. Pittman, I have already posted opinions in other threads regarding his talents and don't feel the need to repeat myself in the sixth Antonio Pittman thread.

The truth is you (as does any regular message board poster) enjoy sharing you opinion more than others enjoy hearing them. ...I was just busting your chops a bit about the Pittman thing, but if we regulars already know your detailed opinion, there is no need for you to drop in a one-line zinger either, except as a bit to get a reaction.

Problem is with this as well as other times I have yet to hear Mr. LUCKs detailed opinion. In the 1st through 6th iteration. Buzz words only every time with no backup for his position or anything that could even be construed as food for thought.That my friends is just lazy imho and bordeline positivily 6th street.

 

[Maroney=Speed]

Somthing I think you should do a better job of explaining LHUCKS when you take a stand on players or situations. Joffer one liners do not cut it in that situation.

I don't feel the need to write a dissertation...sometimes I just want to give my opinion. If people want to learn more about a player they should do their own research.

I am speaking generally, but I really only care about your (or any other poster's) only in relation to why it is different than my opinion. In other words, I don't give a darn that you think Antonio Pittman will be a scatback in the pros, but the reasons you think he is no more than a third down back are.

But that is just you, other people do care about my opinions that don't have analysis and that is why I post them, not to mention I enjoy sharing my opinion. As for A. Pittman, I have already posted opinions in other threads regarding his talents and don't feel the need to repeat myself in the sixth Antonio Pittman thread.

The truth is you (as does any regular message board poster) enjoy sharing you opinion more than others enjoy hearing them. ...I was just busting your chops a bit about the Pittman thing, but if we regulars already know your detailed opinion, there is no need for you to drop in a one-line zinger either, except as a bit to get a reaction.

Problem is with this as well as other times I have yet to hear Mr. LUCKs detailed opinion. In the 1st through 6th iteration. Buzz words only every time with no backup for his position or anything that could even be construed as food for thought.That my friends is just lazy imho and bordeline positivily 6th street.

Or 6th grade?

 

[LHUCKS]

The truth is you (as does any regular message board poster) enjoy sharing you opinion more than others enjoy hearing them. ...I was just busting your chops a bit about the Pittman thing, but if we regulars already know your detailed opinion, there is no need for you to drop in a one-line zinger either, except as a bit to get a reaction.

A) calling a player overrated is not a "zinger"...anybody claiming otherwise is emotionally attached to the player and most likely a pretty big toolB) I don't fish in the shark pool, thus I'm not looking for a reaction...I leave fishing for all the tools looking to prove how smart they are in the FFAC) I have substantiated my opinion over the years by dominating leagues with FBGs...you may not value that, but there are many "experts" that do.

 

[LHUCKS]

Problem is with this as well as other times I have yet to hear Mr. LUCKs detailed opinion. In the 1st through 6th iteration. Buzz words only every time with no backup for his position or anything that could even be construed as food for thought.That my friends is just lazy imho and bordeline positivily 6th street.

That is simply a lie and does not warrant a response.

 

[Biabreakable]

Problem is with this as well as other times I have yet to hear Mr. LUCKs detailed opinion. In the 1st through 6th iteration. Buzz words only every time with no backup for his position or anything that could even be construed as food for thought.That my friends is just lazy imho and bordeline positivily 6th street.

That is simply a lie and does not warrant a response.

Link? Maybe I missed when you dropped some pearls in a Pittman thread.I do not lie sir. I make mistakes but I do not lie.

 

[coolnerd]

The truth is you (as does any regular message board poster) enjoy sharing you opinion more than others enjoy hearing them. ...I was just busting your chops a bit about the Pittman thing, but if we regulars already know your detailed opinion, there is no need for you to drop in a one-line zinger either, except as a bit to get a reaction.

A) calling a player overrated is not a "zinger"...anybody claiming otherwise is emotionally attached to the player and most likely a pretty big toolB) I don't fish in the shark pool, thus I'm not looking for a reaction...I leave fishing for all the tools looking to prove how smart they are in the FFAC) I have substantiated my opinion over the years by dominating leagues with FBGs...you may not value that, but there are many "experts" that do.

A) When you just drop it in for no reason with no explanation... It is a "zinger" b) That is exactly what you do whether your intention is that or not. c) I have no reason doubt your league playing skill, but only have commented on what I read from you for four or five years.

 

[Tibereas]

This thread sums up what much of what this board has become.

"I am smart and you are dumb." "Football? What is this football of which you speak?"

 

[beto]

I don't think players and situations are broken down enough in here. It's hard to sift thru the chaffe most days.

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

Tearing down a prospect or a player that is (in your opinion) overrated is not easy to debate. It's often subjective and even if you present a good case, it's an uphill battle vs. vocal supporters of that player and not many want to take that on. I encourage all discussions.

X 100The beauty of that post is that all the whiny tools that get butthurt when you criticize their dynasty player(insert any reason why a shark tool is emotionally attached to a player ) don't even understand what Jeff just posted.

(and also wanted to use the new smilie)

 

[Biabreakable]

I don't think players and situations are broken down enough in here. It's hard to sift thru the chaffe most days.

Agreed.I really apprechiate it when someone takes the time to break down in detail thier observations of players and situations. If I agree with them or not it is still good information.

The rest of the stuff here.. not so much.

 

[The Duff Man]

You need to sift through a bunch of garbage but there is good information here if you look for it.

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

I don't care about the relative amount of critical posts vs. complimentary posts, I just want more arguments backed by analysis, and generally more posts on how the person arrived at the conclusion instead of merely stating the conclusion.

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

There's a short lull here before the NFL Draft.

Look for more insights about the NFL and prospects going forward on The Audible.

I'll spin off a thread as to "what do you want to hear?" on The Audible. Hang on.

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

There's a short lull here before the NFL Draft.

Look for more insights about the NFL and prospects going forward on The Audible.

I'll spin off a thread as to "what do you want to hear?" on The Audible. Hang on.

***OFFICIAL***-ly spun off

 

[Liquid Tension]

Too much of anything is not good.What I see most in the Pool is hating on players (especially RBs) hoping they suck so the backup (their player) can take over as the starter. I'm guilty of this with Thomas Jones / Benson.Another is all the jealousy of Peyton Manning and Tom Brady.

Turner? I'm just pulling your chain.

Yeah, him too, but I was realistic with regards to Turner being traded in 2007 vs 2008. I still think SD is crazy for not getting something for him now rather than nothing to start the 2008 season.

Remember they will still get a compensatory pick. also, I thin SD is saying that they want to make another run and having a starting RB as your backup does that. While he still could get traded, it is also possible that there is some ego from the GM spot where he is saying we got rid of everyone, but "my" team could be coached by anyone and succeed. Personally, I think that there is some truth to that.

 

[GroveDiesel]

I don't understand why people get so upset by LHUCKS's schtick. If you don't like seeing him trash players without offering any analysis besides "I've won a bunch of leagues" just simply block him and don't go into his threads. It's pretty simple people.

As to the original question, I think that players are criticized all the time. In fact, other than maybe LT I can't think of a single player that doesn't have criticisms leveled at them all the time. What I don't see is many people saying "So and so is garbage because I said so." Honestly, the only one that seems to be touchy here is you LHUCKS. If you don't like people calling you out for ripping a player, then either bring something more substantive to the table or stop posting stuff like that if you can't handle it.

 

[Domination]

I think that while there is a bit of criticizing of different players, for the most part it is a positive note that poeple put on players. As stated previously, it seems to be that the positive is of their respective players or the negative is for something to happen to someone to aloow for another of their players to flourish. I think that alot of posters do so with their rose colored glasses on.

LHUCKS on the other hand takes things to a whole new level on the negative. I think that he is far more negative than positive, and that is why he ends up getting under so many people's skin. People don't like to hear that their guys suck, and they especially don't like it if you can back it up with facts. There are alot of appologists for alot of different player in the Pool, and if you criticize someone you might end up trying to defend that one post rather than enjoying the rest of the content. I think that is why most people are hesitant to be openly critical of players. That is my

 

[LHUCKS]

I think that he is far more negative than positive, and that is why he ends up getting under so many people's skin. People don't like to hear that their guys suck, and they especially don't like it if you can back it up with facts. There are alot of appologists for alot of different player in the Pool, and if you criticize someone you might end up trying to defend that one post rather than enjoying the rest of the content. I think that is why most people are hesitant to be openly critical of players. That is my

 

[renesauz]

Tearing down a prospect or a player that is (in your opinion) overrated is not easy to debate. It's often subjective and even if you present a good case, it's an uphill battle vs. vocal supporters of that player and not many want to take that on. I encourage all discussions.

X 100The beauty of that post is that all the whiny tools that get butthurt when you criticize their dynasty player(insert any reason why a shark tool is emotionally attached to a player ) don't even understand what Jeff just posted.

Beautiful. Just beautiful!

 

[GregR_2]

Somthing I think you should do a better job of explaining LHUCKS when you take a stand on players or situations. Joffer one liners do not cut it in that situation.

I don't feel the need to write a dissertation...sometimes I just want to give my opinion. If people want to learn more about a player they should do their own research.

That approach is what lessens the value of the Shark Pool in my opinion. You and I have been going against each other in survivor leagues for several years now, and while I think you're a good FF player, I hate this trend you've gotten into of starting threads with a one-liner and seldom seem to contribute more than that on the topic.It's hard enough to have a thread full of constructive input and evaluation without it turning into a war. You start a thread with a one liner and no attempt to back it up and you're inviting others to do the same. Even worse, when people try to discuss the topic the reply they get back are often more of those one liners.So the tone is set to be about as non-constructive as possible short of an outright fishing trip, and then when people do try to take it to a more constructive path, the one liners continue and derail the attempt to make it a serious discussion. I don't think that's very much use to the board, and what usefulness there was came as much in spite of your contribution as because of it.I don't think you or anyone else shouldn't be allowed to share your opinion about FF, but I would hope anyone, especially a long-time member like you, would show more consideration for the board than that. Your annual threads where you actually discuss the early FBG rankings and why you don't agree are great stuff and an example of what you can contribute when you go beyond the one-liners.

 

[SSOG]

I voted undecided on the poll, because in my mind it's not so much a question of whether there's enough criticism being leveled as much as it is a question of "are the right players being criticised?"

Some players, for instance, are criticism magnets. People feel a deep-seated need to criticize these players, rightly or wrongly (99% of the time wrongly) for some offense that these players committed 2, 4, 8 years ago against some team they followed. Players like this are Ron Dayne (that "useless turd" who will "never amount to anything" who somehow managed to become a top-10 RB once they finally featured him in Houston) or Jake Plummer ("Jake the Mistake", the walking turnover waiting to happen who somehow managed to post the lowest INT% in the ENTIRE NFL in 2005). For some reason, it has been decided that these players are worthless, and that designation has become so deeply ingrained that most people are resistant to the idea that maybe it's time to re-evaluate. Heck, Jake Plummer put up three straight pro-bowl caliber seasons in Denver, and yet people STILL seem to believe that he's one of the bottom 5 QBs in the entire NFL.

Other players are somehow Teflon, immune to criticisms of any kind. In fact, even SUGGESTING that these players might be criticisable is often enough to gather a rather large mob brandishing pitchforks and torches. Players like this are Terrell Owens (that "incomparable talent" who caught a lower percentage of passes than Terry Glenn last season, and still managed to post a lower ypc, to boot) and Chris Chambers (who before last season was seen as a near-mortal lock for the top-10, despite the fact that he hasn't had a catch% north of 50% since his second year in the league). For some reason, it has been decided that these players are the bee's knees, and anyone who thinks otherwise is an idiot wrapped in a moron wrapped in an imbecile.

There are players who fall at neither extreme- guys for whom every thread devolves into a jumbled mass of rational discourse and reasonable disagreements- and that's what I value most about FBGs. This message board has the highest percentage of players in the "Rational Discourse" zone than any other board I've seen (with, of course, CBS Sportsline falling at the opposite end of the spectrum). I don't think there is any problem at all with the amount of criticism that these players receive, or don't receive. The big breakdown comes in the form of the Criticism Magnets and the Teflon Men. People need to open their minds on some of these players and realize that they might not be as bad or as good as they thought they were.

 

[pizzatyme]

I guess the only thing I would ask is that if you want to drop a one-liner opinion about a player, and you've already stated your case for reasoning in another thread, then please post a link to such thread!

Maybe I'm the only one here who doesn't go into every Pittman or Peterson thread and read every post?!

Just my $0.02