Backing into Parking Spots - What is the deal and why are so many more people doing it? (2 Viewers)

[the moops]

I find more people let you in when you are going forward than when you are backing out of the spot. Probably for the same reason people here don't like when someone backs in. Backing out takes longer and you have to give more space....

People in general are terrible drivers and kinds ******** when in their vehicles. It's why they hate roundabouts and the zipper merge.

This is regional. As a whole, people here are pretty nice, sometimes even too deferential.

Being deferential is not always a good driving trait. Deferential people let others merge way too early or let others into roundabout when they have the right of way

 

[Bossman]

Usually, you need to either back in or back out. I’d just as soon get it out of the way and make leaving easier. Delayed gratification and all.

I like the pull through move, if the spaces are back to back, and both spots are empty.
No backing up involved, and you piss of the people that think you backed in.

Gratification coming and going.

At the grocery store I'll always pull my truck in far enough that these suv "pull thru" people can't get their hatch open.
Hope you don't mind loading groceries into your back seat. Yes, I'm a jerk.

 

[Bossman]

Also, as a certified forklift operator I can attest that backing in does in a sense give you rear wheel steering like forklift which makes it much easier to get centered and straight in your parking spot.
And bonus that all cars after 2018 have a backup camera so you can see when to stop.

 

[Terminalxylem]

I find more people let you in when you are going forward than when you are backing out of the spot. Probably for the same reason people here don't like when someone backs in. Backing out takes longer and you have to give more space....

People in general are terrible drivers and kinds ******** when in their vehicles. It's why they hate roundabouts and the zipper merge.

This is regional. As a whole, people here are pretty nice, sometimes even too deferential.

Being deferential is not always a good driving trait. Deferential people let others merge way too early or let others into roundabout when they have the right of way

I understand, and have tried to explain this repeatedly to my wife. It’s island style, in part influenced by the large Japanese population.

I still get annoyed at it, occasionally, but then remind myself how much worse the alternative is, especially when I read about assumptions many of you guys make about your fellow drivers.

 

[Terminalxylem]

Usually, you need to either back in or back out. I’d just as soon get it out of the way and make leaving easier. Delayed gratification and all.

I like the pull through move, if the spaces are back to back, and both spots are empty.
No backing up involved, and you piss of the people that think you backed in.

Gratification coming and going.

At the grocery store I'll always pull my truck in far enough that these suv "pull thru" people can't get their hatch open.
Hope you don't mind loading groceries into your back seat. Yes, I'm a jerk.

Why? Is there not enough room for you to park and allow them to load at the rear?

IIRC, you’re one of the guys who believe people won’t make allowances for blinkers. Is it possible there’s something about your driving style that rubs people the wrong way?

 

[Scoresman]

Wait how does a "pull through" make someone a jerk? I missed that memo.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Wait how does a "pull through" make someone a jerk? I missed that memo.

Good question. It would seem to be the best way when possible.

 

[the moops]

Wait how does a "pull through" make someone a jerk? I missed that memo.

Good question. It would seem to be the best way when possible.

Also how do you know if they pulled through or backed in?

 

[bigbottom]

Usually, you need to either back in or back out. I’d just as soon get it out of the way and make leaving easier. Delayed gratification and all.

I like the pull through move, if the spaces are back to back, and both spots are empty.
No backing up involved, and you piss of the people that think you backed in.

Gratification coming and going.

At the grocery store I'll always pull my truck in far enough that these suv "pull thru" people can't get their hatch open.
Hope you don't mind loading groceries into your back seat. Yes, I'm a jerk.

Just last night, I pulled my SUV through at a store and then realized when I was coming out with a huge box that I’d made a big mistake. A guy in a big giant truck had pulled right behind me. I opened the hatch as there was room to do so, but it was going to be tricky getting the box in. As I was considering whether or not to give it a try, the truck behind me started up - turns out the driver was waiting for someone in the store. He immediately backed out into another space so I could easily load my box. I gave him a friendly wave and a mouthed thank you and he smiled and waved back. I think we both felt a positive uplift from the interaction.

 

[Terminalxylem]

Wait how does a "pull through" make someone a jerk? I missed that memo.

It’s safer to back in! Haven’t you been paying attention?

 

[Terminalxylem]

Wait how does a "pull through" make someone a jerk? I missed that memo.

Good question. It would seem to be the best way when possible.

Also how do you know if they pulled through or backed in?

Best to park on everyone’s bumper, just in case.

 

[Bossman]

Usually, you need to either back in or back out. I’d just as soon get it out of the way and make leaving easier. Delayed gratification and all.

I like the pull through move, if the spaces are back to back, and both spots are empty.
No backing up involved, and you piss of the people that think you backed in.

Gratification coming and going.

At the grocery store I'll always pull my truck in far enough that these suv "pull thru" people can't get their hatch open.
Hope you don't mind loading groceries into your back seat. Yes, I'm a jerk.

Why? Is there not enough room for you to park and allow them to load at the rear?

IIRC, you’re one of the guys who believe people won’t make allowances for blinkers. Is it possible there’s something about your driving style that rubs people the wrong way?

My truck is long so I need pull all the way up to the line so as to not stick out in the lane of traffic. Not saying that I'll cross the line into their parking spot ... but if they are close to the line because they didn't pull thru enough, they going to need to pull forward to load.
Yes, I could leave them more space, let my truck stick out a bit, but in my mind I'm pointing out to them the fact of how dumb they are by not having their hatch face the lane for ease of loading a carriage full of groceries ... because they didn't want to have to back up to leave.

Yes, that's me. Wait for an opening one blink and go. If I'm in the left lane, don't expect me to hit the brakes and let you in when there are no cars behind me. In heavy traffic or if someone is attempting to make an exit, yes I would certainly yield for them to enter.

In MA everyones driving style rubs everyone the wrong way. I'm sure that I'm no exception. Survival of the fittest and every man for themselves so to speak.

 

[Harry Manback]

Usually, you need to either back in or back out. I’d just as soon get it out of the way and make leaving easier. Delayed gratification and all.

I like the pull through move, if the spaces are back to back, and both spots are empty.
No backing up involved, and you piss of the people that think you backed in.

Gratification coming and going.

At the grocery store I'll always pull my truck in far enough that these suv "pull thru" people can't get their hatch open.
Hope you don't mind loading groceries into your back seat. Yes, I'm a jerk.

Why? Is there not enough room for you to park and allow them to load at the rear?

IIRC, you’re one of the guys who believe people won’t make allowances for blinkers. Is it possible there’s something about your driving style that rubs people the wrong way?

My truck is long so I need pull all the way up to the line so as to not stick out in the lane of traffic. Not saying that I'll cross the line into their parking spot ... but if they are close to the line because they didn't pull thru enough, they going to need to pull forward to load.
Yes, I could leave them more space, let my truck stick out a bit, but in my mind I'm pointing out to them the fact of how dumb they are by not having their hatch face the lane for ease of loading a carriage full of groceries ... because they didn't want to have to back up to leave.

Yes, that's me. Wait for an opening one blink and go. If I'm in the left lane, don't expect me to hit the brakes and let you in when there are no cars behind me. In heavy traffic or if someone is attempting to make an exit, yes I would certainly yield for them to enter.

In MA everyones driving style rubs everyone the wrong way. I'm sure that I'm no exception. Survival of the fittest and every man for themselves so to speak.

Ah, a fellow masshole. Makes sense now

 

[Scoresman]

Usually, you need to either back in or back out. I’d just as soon get it out of the way and make leaving easier. Delayed gratification and all.

I like the pull through move, if the spaces are back to back, and both spots are empty.
No backing up involved, and you piss of the people that think you backed in.

Gratification coming and going.

At the grocery store I'll always pull my truck in far enough that these suv "pull thru" people can't get their hatch open.
Hope you don't mind loading groceries into your back seat. Yes, I'm a jerk.

Why? Is there not enough room for you to park and allow them to load at the rear?

IIRC, you’re one of the guys who believe people won’t make allowances for blinkers. Is it possible there’s something about your driving style that rubs people the wrong way?

My truck is long so I need pull all the way up to the line so as to not stick out in the lane of traffic. Not saying that I'll cross the line into their parking spot ... but if they are close to the line because they didn't pull thru enough, they going to need to pull forward to load.
Yes, I could leave them more space, let my truck stick out a bit, but in my mind I'm pointing out to them the fact of how dumb they are by not having their hatch face the lane for ease of loading a carriage full of groceries ... because they didn't want to have to back up to leave.

Yes, that's me. Wait for an opening one blink and go. If I'm in the left lane, don't expect me to hit the brakes and let you in when there are no cars behind me. In heavy traffic or if someone is attempting to make an exit, yes I would certainly yield for them to enter.

In MA everyones driving style rubs everyone the wrong way. I'm sure that I'm no exception. Survival of the fittest and every man for themselves so to speak.

If they aren't pulling forward enough to accommodate their hatch, that's one thing. But I think in most situations like this the right thing to do is not be passive aggressive pulling forward so much to purposely block people from opening their hatch. You're the one who chose to drive a ginormous truck that barely fits into parking spaces, and you're the one choosing to drive that vehicle to the grocery store.

 

[Bossman]

Here's another one people can hate me for ... on the highway this morning, traffic comes to a stop. Signs for "Road construction ahead".
After the stop and go for a mile or so there is a sign ... left lane closed - merge right.

So now people are making their way from left lane to right and the left lane ahead of me opens up for a stretch of about 20 cars.
In this state, people will take that as an opportunity to race ahead, pass those 20 cars in the right hand lane and then duck in at the last moment.
Drives me nuts. We all have someplace to be. These people in the right hand lane were here first ... and just because people moved right before getting to the end of the closing lane, doesn't mean you get to go ahead of them.

I stayed left and purposely paced the tractor trailer in the right hand lane so no one could pass. People behind me could see there would be no passing and began merging. When I got to the cones, the truck let me in. He understood the assignment and I'm sure he appreciated not being passed by another 10 cars that would duck in ahead of him.

 

[Gally]

So now people are making their way from left lane to right and the left lane ahead of me opens up for a stretch of about 20 cars.
In this state, people will take that as an opportunity to race ahead, pass those 20 cars in the right hand lane and then duck in at the last moment.

Those people that are "racing ahead" are actually using the lanes properly. They are maximizing lane usage. If this is done with a proper zippering merge technique at the last moment the traffic flow will be much better and fluid.

 

[Bossman]

So now people are making their way from left lane to right and the left lane ahead of me opens up for a stretch of about 20 cars.
In this state, people will take that as an opportunity to race ahead, pass those 20 cars in the right hand lane and then duck in at the last moment.

Those people that are "racing ahead" are actually using the lanes properly. They are maximizing lane usage. If this is done with a proper zippering merge technique at the last moment the traffic flow will be much better and fluid.

There is a limit as to how many cars can flow at a set speed in one lane.
Doesn't matter if there are 10 lanes of cars entering that one lane, the # of cars able to proceed will not change. It's physically impossible.
This is like saying if a ski lift line had 30 lanes filtering down to 1 instead of 4 lanes filtering into 1, people would get to the top sooner. The lift can only carry a set amount of people.
Sit back, relax, and wait your turn.

 

[Navin Johnson]

So now people are making their way from left lane to right and the left lane ahead of me opens up for a stretch of about 20 cars.
In this state, people will take that as an opportunity to race ahead, pass those 20 cars in the right hand lane and then duck in at the last moment.

Those people that are "racing ahead" are actually using the lanes properly. They are maximizing lane usage. If this is done with a proper zippering merge technique at the last moment the traffic flow will be much better and fluid.

There is a limit as to how many cars can flow at a set speed in one lane.
Doesn't matter if there are 10 lanes of cars entering that one lane, the # of cars able to proceed will not change. It's physically impossible.
This is like saying if a ski lift line had 30 lanes filtering down to 1 instead of 4 lanes filtering into 1, people would get to the top sooner. The lift can only carry a set amount of people.
Sit back, relax, and wait your turn.

So moving at that limit for an extra half mile isn't going to affect your drive time? How about a mile? Five?

 

[Bossman]

So now people are making their way from left lane to right and the left lane ahead of me opens up for a stretch of about 20 cars.
In this state, people will take that as an opportunity to race ahead, pass those 20 cars in the right hand lane and then duck in at the last moment.

Those people that are "racing ahead" are actually using the lanes properly. They are maximizing lane usage. If this is done with a proper zippering merge technique at the last moment the traffic flow will be much better and fluid.

There is a limit as to how many cars can flow at a set speed in one lane.
Doesn't matter if there are 10 lanes of cars entering that one lane, the # of cars able to proceed will not change. It's physically impossible.
This is like saying if a ski lift line had 30 lanes filtering down to 1 instead of 4 lanes filtering into 1, people would get to the top sooner. The lift can only carry a set amount of people.
Sit back, relax, and wait your turn.

So moving at that limit for an extra half mile isn't going to affect your drive time? How about a mile? Five?

It's true. You can run 100 gallon barrel of water thru a 1 foot hose ... or thru a 100 ft hose and it will take the same time.
Doesn't matter how wide the barrel is.

ETA: To be fair, with a proper zipper effect, the people using the additional lanes will get thru faster ... but at the expense of the people already in the lane that is open and potentially were there first.
I'm not going to stop traffic for a 1/2 mile when both lanes are already in stop and go ... but I'm not letting people take advantage and cut ahead of people that moved over a bit early.

 

[BrutalPenguin]

Zipper merge is the grown up thing to do:

The Zipper Merge | Tips to Keep Traffic Moving — Colorado Department of Transportation

www.codot.gov

 

[the moops]

I stayed left and purposely paced the tractor trailer in the right hand lane so no one could pass. People behind me could see there would be no passing and began merging.

If I was a police officer I would arrest you. This is such a **** move.

 

[the moops]

And @Bossman how do you decide when and where the merge should happen if not at the actual merge point? Is it 1/2 mile back? A couple hundred yards? Wherever the first person decided to merge at?

 

[Gally]

at the expense of the people already in the lane that is open and potentially were there first.

But that is a false assumption. If people utilized the whole lane then the people arriving first will be at the front. If everyone did this then it would go in order of arrival and the zippering allows for a more fluid convergence which will help speed everything up.

In theory what you are saying is correct that a single lane has a max volume however theory doesn't always work. By your way people don't let others in which then slows merging and backs up more people causing more delays down the lane and it keeps traveling back. It is a fluid dynamics problem. You are causing turbulence which causes delays.

 

[bigbottom]

If you are eliminating an open lane from being used for whatever distance, you are necessarily causing delay. You may be increasing fairness but you are reducing efficiency.

 

[Instinctive]

So now people are making their way from left lane to right and the left lane ahead of me opens up for a stretch of about 20 cars.
In this state, people will take that as an opportunity to race ahead, pass those 20 cars in the right hand lane and then duck in at the last moment.

Those people that are "racing ahead" are actually using the lanes properly. They are maximizing lane usage. If this is done with a proper zippering merge technique at the last moment the traffic flow will be much better and fluid.

I was gonna say we HAVE to have a thread on this. Every person merging early is causing MORE traffic. There are numerous studies on this. Using all available road as long as possible minimizes traffic disruption and is better for everyone.

 

[Instinctive]

If you are eliminating an open lane from being used for whatever distance, you are necessarily causing delay. You may be increasing fairness but you are reducing efficiency.

You're not even increasing fairness.

EVERYONE should be using both lanes. What is actually happening is you're encouraging others to be less efficient, which is unfair to every single car behind you on the road.

 

[bigbottom]

If you are eliminating an open lane from being used for whatever distance, you are necessarily causing delay. You may be increasing fairness but you are reducing efficiency.

You're not even increasing fairness.

EVERYONE should be using both lanes. What is actually happening is you're encouraging others to be less efficient, which is unfair to every single car behind you on the road.

Yes, good point.

 

[Bossman]

Let me see if I understand everyone else's logic ..

Your stop and go in the left lane of 2 lanes. Sign says "left lane closed ahead". You see cones, flashing blue lights up ahead... people begin merging right ...
Now left lane is empty in front of you for about 20 cars ..

All of you would speed up, pass all 20 of those cars in the right lane... including the people that just merged that were ahead of you... as well as the people that allowed them to merge that were ahead of you... to zipper in behind car #1.
And by doing this, you are doing everyone else a favor by being efficient?

This would be the #@*$ move in my opinion but I figured some would be offended by my logic.

And you can reference all the studies you want, a grain of common sense tells you your not getting any extra cars thru that one lane in bumper to bumper traffic no matter how or where you merge. Physically impossible.

 

[Mister CIA]

We have a math thread!!

 

[Terminalxylem]

I stayed left and purposely paced the tractor trailer in the right hand lane so no one could pass. People behind me could see there would be no passing and began merging.

If I was a police officer I would arrest you. This is such a **** move.

Citizen’s arrest!

 

[the moops]

Let me see if I understand everyone else's logic ..

Your stop and go in the left lane of 2 lanes. Sign says "left lane closed ahead". You see cones, flashing blue lights up ahead... people begin merging right ...
Now left lane is empty in front of you for about 20 cars ..

All of you would speed up, pass all 20 of those cars in the right lane... including the people that just merged that were ahead of you... as well as the people that allowed them to merge that were ahead of you... to zipper in behind car #1.
And by doing this, you are doing everyone else a favor by being efficient?

This would be the #@*$ move in my opinion but I figured some would be offended by my logic.

And you can reference all the studies you want, a grain of common sense tells you your not getting any extra cars thru that one lane in bumper to bumper traffic no matter how or where you merge. Physically impossible.

What if people started merging 1 mile before the actual merge? That would be ridiculous right? So what is special about 20 car lengths that makes you want to merge at that point? There is literally governmental campaigns asking people to zipper merge to help alleviate backups

 

[Gally]

including the people that just merged that were ahead of you... as well as the people that allowed them to merge that were ahead of you..

Those people shouldn't have merged early. That is the problem.

So while a single lane will only pass so many cars it will take more time when you are leaving lane volume empty by not utilizing 20 car lengths of volume. As someone pointed out above if you have 1 mile or 10 miles or 20 miles of empty lane because a merge is coming up it slows down traffic because you artificially causing a one lane volume before you need to. That is the problem with your approach.

 

[the moops]

including the people that just merged that were ahead of you... as well as the people that allowed them to merge that were ahead of you..

Those people shouldn't have merged early. That is the problem.

So while a single lane will only pass so many cars it will take more time when you are leaving lane volume empty by not utilizing 20 car lengths of volume. As someone pointed out above if you have 1 mile or 10 miles or 20 miles of empty lane because a merge is coming up it slows down traffic because you artificially causing a one lane volume before you need to. That is the problem with your approach.

It's not very complicated. I am unsure why we have all been conditioned to merge so soon

 

[Gally]

including the people that just merged that were ahead of you... as well as the people that allowed them to merge that were ahead of you..

Those people shouldn't have merged early. That is the problem.

So while a single lane will only pass so many cars it will take more time when you are leaving lane volume empty by not utilizing 20 car lengths of volume. As someone pointed out above if you have 1 mile or 10 miles or 20 miles of empty lane because a merge is coming up it slows down traffic because you artificially causing a one lane volume before you need to. That is the problem with your approach.

It's not very complicated. I am unsure why we have all been conditioned to merge so soon

Because of emotions. People think that the people filling up the lane that is ending are cheating. When in reality they are "cheating" themselves by not utilizing the lane that ends. They only have themselves to blame.

 

[jhib]

Big fan of zipper merge and I'm gradually getting over any guilt I feel about using the lanes properly while others merge too early.

But ... in a totally different situation that people might think is the same, if a highway is splitting in two with signs starting a couple miles ahead of the split delineating which of the two lanes is for each "exit" and one of the lanes gets backed up while the other is free, it's a richard move to fly down the free lane and try to get into the backed up lane at the last second.

 

[jhib]

Wait how does a "pull through" make someone a jerk? I missed that memo.

IMHO, only when it's right after someone pulled out of that far spot and there was someone waiting for them to clear from that other side.

 

[The Z Machine]

Is the challenge maneuvering your vehicle as you back out? Or avoiding traffic?

It's other traffic. Getting out of a spot in a busy lot is much easier going forward vs backward.

That’s fair.

But it seems like some people believe it’s technically easier to back into a space than back out of one (ignoring traffic). That’s nonsense imo.

For my habits (park far away, with less lot traffic, and avoiding driving to uber crowded venues), I rarely have difficulty backing out.

Not all situations are the same. I have a private spot in a lot that I lease. I cannot choose a different spot. This one is assigned to me. Often both spaces on the sides of mu space are occupied. The spaces are quite tight. I can tell you it's much easier to back into the space without scraping the sides than to pull in forward.

 

[Instinctive]

Let me see if I understand everyone else's logic ..

Your stop and go in the left lane of 2 lanes. Sign says "left lane closed ahead". You see cones, flashing blue lights up ahead... people begin merging right ...
Now left lane is empty in front of you for about 20 cars ..

All of you would speed up, pass all 20 of those cars in the right lane... including the people that just merged that were ahead of you... as well as the people that allowed them to merge that were ahead of you... to zipper in behind car #1.
And by doing this, you are doing everyone else a favor by being efficient?

This would be the #@*$ move in my opinion but I figured some would be offended by my logic.

And you can reference all the studies you want, a grain of common sense tells you your not getting any extra cars thru that one lane in bumper to bumper traffic no matter how or where you merge. Physically impossible.

FWIW, I wouldn't speed up. But I definitely would use the other lane. I'm aware that some people are dumb or were taught incorrectly, so don't know that I'm doing the right thing, AND emotional, so they may veer out and try to cause an accident out of misguided self righteousness.

You aren't getting extra cars through, DURING the single lane area.

Let's say this stretch of road can take 500 cars per minute in each lane. There are typically 600-900 cars per minute at busier times because they designed the right size highway.

Now there is construction for a mile. For that mile, flow is restricted to 500 cars, but there are still 700 on the road. So there's a backup. Because pace slows and such, let's say that mile stretch now takes five minutes to get through instead of one.

That backup becomes worse (longer in distance length as well as time to get through) for every single car length you take the one mile bottleneck and make it longer. So by merging early, now there's, say, 1.5 miles where we've artificially constrained traffic to only 500 cars per minute.

So now it takes 7.5 minutes to get through the constrained stretch, which means traffic behind the stretch backs up worse now, because more and more cars are backing up on the road now. So in a couple minutes, now it's taking ten minutes to get through, and as more people extend the 1-mile stretch because they see the backup and think they're such good and fair citizens, they merge early, now the one mile stretch, which has become 1.5 miles, is 2 miles long. Which exacerbates it even more.

 

[Bossman]

Let me see if I understand everyone else's logic ..

Your stop and go in the left lane of 2 lanes. Sign says "left lane closed ahead". You see cones, flashing blue lights up ahead... people begin merging right ...
Now left lane is empty in front of you for about 20 cars ..

All of you would speed up, pass all 20 of those cars in the right lane... including the people that just merged that were ahead of you... as well as the people that allowed them to merge that were ahead of you... to zipper in behind car #1.
And by doing this, you are doing everyone else a favor by being efficient?

This would be the #@*$ move in my opinion but I figured some would be offended by my logic.

And you can reference all the studies you want, a grain of common sense tells you your not getting any extra cars thru that one lane in bumper to bumper traffic no matter how or where you merge. Physically impossible.

FWIW, I wouldn't speed up. But I definitely would use the other lane. I'm aware that some people are dumb or were taught incorrectly, so don't know that I'm doing the right thing, AND emotional, so they may veer out and try to cause an accident out of misguided self righteousness.

You aren't getting extra cars through, DURING the single lane area.

Let's say this stretch of road can take 500 cars per minute in each lane. There are typically 600-900 cars per minute at busier times because they designed the right size highway.

Now there is construction for a mile. For that mile, flow is restricted to 500 cars, but there are still 700 on the road. So there's a backup. Because pace slows and such, let's say that mile stretch now takes five minutes to get through instead of one.

That backup becomes worse (longer in distance length as well as time to get through) for every single car length you take the one mile bottleneck and make it longer. So by merging early, now there's, say, 1.5 miles where we've artificially constrained traffic to only 500 cars per minute.

So now it takes 7.5 minutes to get through the constrained stretch, which means traffic behind the stretch backs up worse now, because more and more cars are backing up on the road now. So in a couple minutes, now it's taking ten minutes to get through, and as more people extend the 1-mile stretch because they see the backup and think they're such good and fair citizens, they merge early, now the one mile stretch, which has become 1.5 miles, is 2 miles long. Which exacerbates it even more.

Ugh ... somehow you're getting 100 gallons of water thru a 10 foot hose faster than thru a 100 ft hose.
The only thing you are increasing is how soon the water gets to the hose.
Your just moving the barrel closer to the end of the hose.

Yes, your time in the longer constrained area is more, but it's not because of lack of lanes available up to a shorter constriction, ...
...it's because not having additional lanes meant you were not able to pass anyone and get a better spot in line.

In my situation, The only advantage of utilizing the additional lane for that length of 20 cars would be for me to get a better spot in line.
If You want to punish people for merging early, you be you. I don't.

 

[Instinctive]

Let me see if I understand everyone else's logic ..

Your stop and go in the left lane of 2 lanes. Sign says "left lane closed ahead". You see cones, flashing blue lights up ahead... people begin merging right ...
Now left lane is empty in front of you for about 20 cars ..

All of you would speed up, pass all 20 of those cars in the right lane... including the people that just merged that were ahead of you... as well as the people that allowed them to merge that were ahead of you... to zipper in behind car #1.
And by doing this, you are doing everyone else a favor by being efficient?

This would be the #@*$ move in my opinion but I figured some would be offended by my logic.

And you can reference all the studies you want, a grain of common sense tells you your not getting any extra cars thru that one lane in bumper to bumper traffic no matter how or where you merge. Physically impossible.

FWIW, I wouldn't speed up. But I definitely would use the other lane. I'm aware that some people are dumb or were taught incorrectly, so don't know that I'm doing the right thing, AND emotional, so they may veer out and try to cause an accident out of misguided self righteousness.

You aren't getting extra cars through, DURING the single lane area.

Let's say this stretch of road can take 500 cars per minute in each lane. There are typically 600-900 cars per minute at busier times because they designed the right size highway.

Now there is construction for a mile. For that mile, flow is restricted to 500 cars, but there are still 700 on the road. So there's a backup. Because pace slows and such, let's say that mile stretch now takes five minutes to get through instead of one.

That backup becomes worse (longer in distance length as well as time to get through) for every single car length you take the one mile bottleneck and make it longer. So by merging early, now there's, say, 1.5 miles where we've artificially constrained traffic to only 500 cars per minute.

So now it takes 7.5 minutes to get through the constrained stretch, which means traffic behind the stretch backs up worse now, because more and more cars are backing up on the road now. So in a couple minutes, now it's taking ten minutes to get through, and as more people extend the 1-mile stretch because they see the backup and think they're such good and fair citizens, they merge early, now the one mile stretch, which has become 1.5 miles, is 2 miles long. Which exacerbates it even more.

Ugh ... somehow you're getting 100 gallons of water thru a 10 foot hose faster than thru a 100 ft hose.
The only thing you are increasing is how soon the water gets to the hose.
Your just moving the barrel closer to the end of the hose.

Yes, your time in the longer constrained area is more, but it's not because of lack of lanes available up to a shorter constriction, ...
...it's because not having additional lanes meant you were not able to pass anyone and get a better spot in line.

In my situation, The only advantage of utilizing the additional lane for that length of 20 cars would be for me to get a better spot in line.
If You want to punish people for merging early, you be you. I don't.

That's ok. I'm gonna bow out of the conversation because you think traffic and human behavior are the same as fluid dynamics.

They're not.

In my opinion, this is Dunning Kruger in action. You know enough to think you're right and be closed off to learning why you aren't. If you change your stance and want to learn, feel free to let us know.

Have a good one, no hard feelings.

 

[Instinctive]

For what it's worth I just found two research papers and five state dept of transportation sites directly opining on the topic.

Every single one of them says:

If traffic is slowed or congested at all, it is far superior to use a zipper merge and both lanes until the end. It makes it clearer when merging occurs, reduced "force merges" that cause shockwaves through the following traffic (this is why your fluid dynamics analogy is not applicable, btw).

If traffic isn't slowed, then merge early.

 

[the moops]

Also @Bossman username checks out. He thinks he is in charge of when and where people get to merge

 

[Harry Manback]

Let me see if I understand everyone else's logic ..

Your stop and go in the left lane of 2 lanes. Sign says "left lane closed ahead". You see cones, flashing blue lights up ahead... people begin merging right ...
Now left lane is empty in front of you for about 20 cars ..

All of you would speed up, pass all 20 of those cars in the right lane... including the people that just merged that were ahead of you... as well as the people that allowed them to merge that were ahead of you... to zipper in behind car #1.
And by doing this, you are doing everyone else a favor by being efficient?

This would be the #@*$ move in my opinion but I figured some would be offended by my logic.

And you can reference all the studies you want, a grain of common sense tells you your not getting any extra cars thru that one lane in bumper to bumper traffic no matter how or where you merge. Physically impossible.

If you are doing a zipper merge no one is being inconvenienced. Left lane merges then right lane then left etc.

If you force everyone into one lane and prevent the other from being used, your hose analogy changes to using a 1/2" hose instead of a 1" hose. You're focusing on length when it's about width.

 

[Gally]

it's because not having additional lanes meant you were not able to pass anyone and get a better spot in line.

This is your fatal flaw in your analysis. If EVERYONE used both lanes to their fullest and zipper merged nobody is "passing" anyone. Nobody is getting a better spot in line.

Because you are merging (and prohibiting everyone else from merging) you are creating this falsity in reasoning about a "better spot in line". If everyone filled up the entire volume of lanes as they approach the merge point then everyone would be properly slotted in line based on arrival time. This is the basis of your faulty reasoning.

Now as someone pointed out previously, a merge such as this where all vehicles are going to the same place waiting until the last possible time to merge is the proper thing. This is different than an off ramp that is backed up and having someone "jump" the line and go to the front and try and merge right as the lane exits. Those people should be shot and are the exact people that are jumping the line. But that is a completely different traffic flow scenario.

 

[bigbottom]

This seems reminiscent of the Monty Hall problem debate.

 

[Scoresman]

Guys, never mind the countless studies done on the efficiency of zipper merging. Bossman has this figured out.

 

[bigbottom]

Zipper Merge

 

[Bossman]

My goodness. Everyone is acting as if the lane was blocked for a half mile. It was 20 cars. 250ft.

The purpose of me pacing the truck next to me was to not pass those that were ahead of me and I did wait to merge when my lane ended as everyone is insisting I should do. The people ahead of me did not.

Before anyone else bows out, all of you please admit that you would speed up, pass all 20 of those cars in the right lane... including the people that just merged that were ahead of you... as well as the people that allowed them to merge that were ahead of you... to zipper in behind car #1.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

including the people that just merged that were ahead of you...

The people that merged earlier than they should have?

 

[Scoresman]

My goodness. Everyone is acting as if the lane was blocked for a half mile. It was 20 cars. 250ft.

The purpose of me pacing the truck next to me was to not pass those that were ahead of me and I did wait to merge when my lane ended as everyone is insisting I should do. The people ahead of me did not.

Before anyone else bows out, all of you please admit that you would speed up, pass all 20 of those cars in the right lane... including the people that just merged that were ahead of you... as well as the people that allowed them to merge that were ahead of you... to zipper in behind car #1.

It's not about the number of cars you blocked. It's more how you think you know better than the studies done on the effectiveness of zipper merging.