Backing into Parking Spots - What is the deal and why are so many more people doing it? (2 Viewers)

[JAA]

the best thing is watching fibs try to back a boat in at launches up north i am not saying we used to grab a beer and sit on our hood and laugh at them but we did used to do that one guy was so bad that after 15 minutes my uncle did it for him take that to the bank brohans

Wannabe redneck here, moving my simple 21' open bow is an absolute anxiety attack for me. This is with an 04 RAM 5.7 AWS long bed quad cab, so the issue isnt the horse ...

 

[ChiefD]

the best thing is watching fibs try to back a boat in at launches up north i am not saying we used to grab a beer and sit on our hood and laugh at them but we did used to do that one guy was so bad that after 15 minutes my uncle did it for him take that to the bank brohans

Wannabe redneck here, moving my simple 21' open bow is an absolute anxiety attack for me. This is with an 04 RAM 5.7 AWS long bed quad cab, so the issue isnt the horse ...

Slow Pro, Fast A.ss

You go slow, you look like a pro
You go fast, you look like an a.ss

Words to live by. I repeat this to my 17 year old every time he takes the boat out. It's not a race on the boat ramp.

 

[Terminalxylem]

This thread really has been interesting. Something I never thought about (I basically always have parked nose in), then actually researched, and the NHTSA, every blue collar profession that involved parking a lot (construction, lineman for utilities, gas, etc), random sources, and Fire Depts unanimously agree it takes less overall time AND increases safety to back into parking spots.

One of the few things where I came in with a "this doesn't matter" opinion and am now thoroughly eye opened to how much it does matter.

I’ll concede a possible safety advantage, but the bolded has not been established in any shape or form, no matter what color collars the parkers are wearing.

It has been established :e:

Ask OSHA

I looked.

There are a bunch of vague statements which stipulate backing in/pulling out can sometimes be more efficient, but nothing which establishes it generally is quicker. Those statements are typically in the same breath as objective safety benefits, but the latter is what does the heavy lifting in suggesting backing in is the better practice overall, imo.

But I’m open to being proven wrong. Can you (or anyone) provide a link with actual data comparing parking times?

 

[Terminalxylem]

And yes, I’ve seen people struggle backing out, but it happens a fraction of the time backing in fails on the first go.

Really? And what would that fraction be?

Maybe 1/10 the likelihood backing in requires multiple, time-wasting attempts. It’s exponentially worse, time wise, imo.

 

[Instinctive]

Guys leave him alone at this point. He doesn't know how to back in properly so it takes him a lot of extra time. Unless you fly to Hawaii and teach him, that's not gonna change.

I do plan to be there next winter though......

 

[Terminalxylem]

How about parking in a lot that is slightly covered in snow so you can not see the lines. It is especially bad with angled parking. You don't stop door to door. No lines, no proper spacing.

Don’t know about parking in the snow, but it provides a great opportunity to practice police turns.

That’s about the only thing I enjoyed in my short time in the midwest. But given so many of you live there, I’m starting to think support for backing up is purely to delay going outside in the cold.

 

[Navin Johnson]

I back into my spot at work. I just like to do it. And I can whip in one shot every time. I've backed plenty of trailers over the years. I have a pretty good feel for what why truck does.

Muuuuuuch more annoying are the people who pull into a parking spot unevenly between the lines. I'd wager half the people I work with can't properly park between the lines. Shouldn't be out driving if you can't properly park a vehicle.

I'm with you. I don't really care so much if you pull in forward or back. My problem is always with the people who don't carry out their chosen method well, either in the process itself (taking too long) or in the end result (poorly spaced within lines).

I find it easier to center the car when backing in as you can track the lines in your mirrors.

 

[Navin Johnson]

Doesn't the time it take to back into a spot equal the time it takes to back out?

You'd feasibly be holding people up the same just at a different point. The assertation you're holding up someone waiting for your spot is far from true 100% of the time, but it definitely happens.

The best argument for backing into spots is safety. Backing up is always dangerous due to obstructed views. When you back out of a spot you have moving vehicles and pedestrians to worry about. Backing in you only need to worry about stationary vehicles.

When you are ready to leave you have full view and can pull out without risking hitting a pedestrian. A year or so back a pedestrian was sadly killed due to someone backing out of a spot.

It's undeniably safer to back in, it's a matter of is the slight extra inconvenience worth it.

You also are more restricted backing out as turning swings the front end.

 

[Pipes]

6 pages? Didn't realize this was such a big issue. Seem's like a big nothing burger to me imo.

 

[Manster]

I'd also add, with backup cameras being mandatory it sort of helps both sides a bit. It's easier to back into spots with them, and it's safer to back out with them.

I personally don't back in much, as I use my tailgate when at the grocery store.

But if it's a big even or a place where I anticipate traffic when I'm leaving I'll back in to save myself that hassle.

I think people rely on cameras too much.

I back into my spot at work. I just like to do it. And I can whip in one shot every time. I've backed plenty of trailers over the years. I have a pretty good feel for what why truck does.

Muuuuuuch more annoying are the people who pull into a parking spot unevenly between the lines. I'd wager half the people I work with can't properly park between the lines. Shouldn't be out driving if you can't properly park a vehicle.

I'm with you. I don't really care so much if you pull in forward or back. My problem is always with the people who don't carry out their chosen method well, either in the process itself (taking too long) or in the end result (poorly spaced within lines).

I find it easier to center the car when backing in as you can track the lines in your mirrors.

I'm with ya. I like to back in along a curb if can and hug it tight. That way I only have a vehicle on one side and lots of room between me and them.

 

[JAA]

This thread really has been interesting. Something I never thought about (I basically always have parked nose in), then actually researched, and the NHTSA, every blue collar profession that involved parking a lot (construction, lineman for utilities, gas, etc), random sources, and Fire Depts unanimously agree it takes less overall time AND increases safety to back into parking spots.

One of the few things where I came in with a "this doesn't matter" opinion and am now thoroughly eye opened to how much it does matter.

I’ll concede a possible safety advantage, but the bolded has not been established in any shape or form, no matter what color collars the parkers are wearing.

It has been established :e:

Ask OSHA

I looked.

There are a bunch of vague statements which stipulate backing in/pulling out can sometimes be more efficient, but nothing which establishes it generally is quicker. Those statements are typically in the same breath as objective safety benefits, but the latter is what does the heavy lifting in suggesting backing in is the better practice overall, imo.

But I’m open to being proven wrong. Can you (or anyone) provide a link with actual data comparing parking times?

Just to be clear, you read all over OSHA where backing up is incredibly dangerous, correct?

 

[JAA]

This thread really has been interesting. Something I never thought about (I basically always have parked nose in), then actually researched, and the NHTSA, every blue collar profession that involved parking a lot (construction, lineman for utilities, gas, etc), random sources, and Fire Depts unanimously agree it takes less overall time AND increases safety to back into parking spots.

One of the few things where I came in with a "this doesn't matter" opinion and am now thoroughly eye opened to how much it does matter.

I’ll concede a possible safety advantage, but the bolded has not been established in any shape or form, no matter what color collars the parkers are wearing.

It has been established :e:

Ask OSHA

I looked.

There are a bunch of vague statements which stipulate backing in/pulling out can sometimes be more efficient, but nothing which establishes it generally is quicker. Those statements are typically in the same breath as objective safety benefits, but the latter is what does the heavy lifting in suggesting backing in is the better practice overall, imo.

But I’m open to being proven wrong. Can you (or anyone) provide a link with actual data comparing parking times?

2 minute search: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/enha...-benefits-reverse-parking-steven-gibbs-wgysc/

 

[Alex P Keaton]

the best thing is watching fibs try to back a boat in at launches up north i am not saying we used to grab a beer and sit on our hood and laugh at them but we did used to do that one guy was so bad that after 15 minutes my uncle did it for him take that to the bank brohans

FIB-TAB

 

[trader jake]

Unless it’s a big truck (I get that), it annoys the **** out of me. Particularly if it’s a busy parking lot and you’re holding up traffic to do your back and forth attempt to get into the space. What’s even better is since the person has to pull past the spot to back in, everyone else right behind them has to back up to give them room. You pull past the spot and I’m sweeping in to the spot right behind you……fight me.

We’re almost at the point we need separate parking for monster trucks/SUVs. Traditional spaces can’t accommodate the behemoths, which further slows the backing-in phenomenon.

They're emotional support vehicles.

 

[Terminalxylem]

This thread really has been interesting. Something I never thought about (I basically always have parked nose in), then actually researched, and the NHTSA, every blue collar profession that involved parking a lot (construction, lineman for utilities, gas, etc), random sources, and Fire Depts unanimously agree it takes less overall time AND increases safety to back into parking spots.

One of the few things where I came in with a "this doesn't matter" opinion and am now thoroughly eye opened to how much it does matter.

I’ll concede a possible safety advantage, but the bolded has not been established in any shape or form, no matter what color collars the parkers are wearing.

It has been established :e:

Ask OSHA

I looked.

There are a bunch of vague statements which stipulate backing in/pulling out can sometimes be more efficient, but nothing which establishes it generally is quicker. Those statements are typically in the same breath as objective safety benefits, but the latter is what does the heavy lifting in suggesting backing in is the better practice overall, imo.

But I’m open to being proven wrong. Can you (or anyone) provide a link with actual data comparing parking times?

Just to be clear, you read all over OSHA where backing up is incredibly dangerous, correct?

No. But wow, I feel lucky to be alive.

Also, while I was parking yesterday, I noticed some lots have one way lanes and angled stalls. Shockingly, they were actually angled to promote pulling forward Into spaces. Given the apparent consensus that doing so is both slow and perilous, why engineer parking lots this way?

Why not angle spaces the other way, to facilitate backing in? Or were they expecting me to back in?

 

[Terminalxylem]

This thread really has been interesting. Something I never thought about (I basically always have parked nose in), then actually researched, and the NHTSA, every blue collar profession that involved parking a lot (construction, lineman for utilities, gas, etc), random sources, and Fire Depts unanimously agree it takes less overall time AND increases safety to back into parking spots.

One of the few things where I came in with a "this doesn't matter" opinion and am now thoroughly eye opened to how much it does matter.

I’ll concede a possible safety advantage, but the bolded has not been established in any shape or form, no matter what color collars the parkers are wearing.

It has been established :e:

Ask OSHA

I looked.

There are a bunch of vague statements which stipulate backing in/pulling out can sometimes be more efficient, but nothing which establishes it generally is quicker. Those statements are typically in the same breath as objective safety benefits, but the latter is what does the heavy lifting in suggesting backing in is the better practice overall, imo.

But I’m open to being proven wrong. Can you (or anyone) provide a link with actual data comparing parking times?

2 minute search: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/enha...-benefits-reverse-parking-steven-gibbs-wgysc/

That’s interesting, but includes no objective data showing the totality of backing in/pulling in is faster.*

Like every other article on the subject, it focuses on safety.

What I’m looking for is a controlled setting where groups of parkers, stratified by parking methodology, are timed. Or just someone standing in an actual parking lot, with a stopwatch. That’s not riveting science, of course, but would go a long way to proving which style is most efficient.

*They mention pulling out is generally faster, and I agree. I just don't think it’s fast enough to offset how slow backing in can be.

Their point about when people come/go at work is also interesting, and may be a valid argument for backing in at the workplace specifically, if large groups of people share the same shifts. Personally, I don’t experience an exodus of people when I leave work, nor with most of my day-to-day parking (makes sense at concerts/events though).

 

[Snoopy]

Why not angle spaces the other way, to facilitate backing in? Or were they expecting me to back in?

This thread really has been interesting. Something I never thought about (I basically always have parked nose in), then actually researched, and the NHTSA, every blue collar profession that involved parking a lot (construction, lineman for utilities, gas, etc), random sources, and Fire Depts unanimously agree it takes less overall time AND increases safety to back into parking spots.

One of the few things where I came in with a "this doesn't matter" opinion and am now thoroughly eye opened to how much it does matter.

I’ll concede a possible safety advantage, but the bolded has not been established in any shape or form, no matter what color collars the parkers are wearing.

It has been established :e:

Ask OSHA

I looked.

There are a bunch of vague statements which stipulate backing in/pulling out can sometimes be more efficient, but nothing which establishes it generally is quicker. Those statements are typically in the same breath as objective safety benefits, but the latter is what does the heavy lifting in suggesting backing in is the better practice overall, imo.

But I’m open to being proven wrong. Can you (or anyone) provide a link with actual data comparing parking times?

Just to be clear, you read all over OSHA where backing up is incredibly dangerous, correct?

No. But wow, I feel lucky to be alive.

Also, while I was parking yesterday, I noticed some lots have one way lanes and angled stalls. Shockingly, they were actually angled to promote pulling forward Into spaces. Given the apparent consensus that doing so is both slow and perilous, why engineer parking lots this way?

Why not angle spaces the other way, to facilitate backing in? Or were they expecting me to back in?

aka Seattle parking.

 

[Chaz McNulty]

the best thing is watching fibs try to back a boat in at launches up north i am not saying we used to grab a beer and sit on our hood and laugh at them but we did used to do that one guy was so bad that after 15 minutes my uncle did it for him take that to the bank brohans

My BiL gave me the best advice for a newbie at this. Grab the steering wheel at the bottom with one hand. Which ever way your hand goes is the direction the trailer/boat will go.

 

[JAA]

This thread really has been interesting. Something I never thought about (I basically always have parked nose in), then actually researched, and the NHTSA, every blue collar profession that involved parking a lot (construction, lineman for utilities, gas, etc), random sources, and Fire Depts unanimously agree it takes less overall time AND increases safety to back into parking spots.

One of the few things where I came in with a "this doesn't matter" opinion and am now thoroughly eye opened to how much it does matter.

I’ll concede a possible safety advantage, but the bolded has not been established in any shape or form, no matter what color collars the parkers are wearing.

It has been established :e:

Ask OSHA

I looked.

There are a bunch of vague statements which stipulate backing in/pulling out can sometimes be more efficient, but nothing which establishes it generally is quicker. Those statements are typically in the same breath as objective safety benefits, but the latter is what does the heavy lifting in suggesting backing in is the better practice overall, imo.

But I’m open to being proven wrong. Can you (or anyone) provide a link with actual data comparing parking times?

2 minute search: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/enha...-benefits-reverse-parking-steven-gibbs-wgysc/

That’s interesting, but includes no objective data showing the totality of backing in/pulling in is faster.*

Like every other article on the subject, it focuses on safety.

What I’m looking for is a controlled setting where groups of parkers, stratified by parking methodology, are timed. Or just someone standing in an actual parking lot, with a stopwatch. That’s not riveting science, of course, but would go a long way to proving which style is most efficient.

*They mention pulling out is generally faster, and I agree. I just don't think it’s fast enough to offset how slow backing in can be.

Their point about when people come/go at work is also interesting, and may be a valid argument for backing in at the workplace specifically, if large groups of people share the same shifts. Personally, I don’t experience an exodus of people when I leave work, nor with most of my day-to-day parking (makes sense at concerts/events though).

Safety is the reason. Sorry if I wasn't clear earlier

 

[Terminalxylem]

This thread really has been interesting. Something I never thought about (I basically always have parked nose in), then actually researched, and the NHTSA, every blue collar profession that involved parking a lot (construction, lineman for utilities, gas, etc), random sources, and Fire Depts unanimously agree it takes less overall time AND increases safety to back into parking spots.

One of the few things where I came in with a "this doesn't matter" opinion and am now thoroughly eye opened to how much it does matter.

I’ll concede a possible safety advantage, but the bolded has not been established in any shape or form, no matter what color collars the parkers are wearing.

It has been established :e:

Ask OSHA

I looked.

There are a bunch of vague statements which stipulate backing in/pulling out can sometimes be more efficient, but nothing which establishes it generally is quicker. Those statements are typically in the same breath as objective safety benefits, but the latter is what does the heavy lifting in suggesting backing in is the better practice overall, imo.

But I’m open to being proven wrong. Can you (or anyone) provide a link with actual data comparing parking times?

2 minute search: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/enha...-benefits-reverse-parking-steven-gibbs-wgysc/

That’s interesting, but includes no objective data showing the totality of backing in/pulling in is faster.*

Like every other article on the subject, it focuses on safety.

What I’m looking for is a controlled setting where groups of parkers, stratified by parking methodology, are timed. Or just someone standing in an actual parking lot, with a stopwatch. That’s not riveting science, of course, but would go a long way to proving which style is most efficient.

*They mention pulling out is generally faster, and I agree. I just don't think it’s fast enough to offset how slow backing in can be.

Their point about when people come/go at work is also interesting, and may be a valid argument for backing in at the workplace specifically, if large groups of people share the same shifts. Personally, I don’t experience an exodus of people when I leave work, nor with most of my day-to-day parking (makes sense at concerts/events though).

Safety is the reason. Sorry if I wasn't clear earlier

It wasn't, and several people proclaimed backing in is faster (@Instinctive even said that opinion was unanimous among experts, in the text above), which is absurd imo.

I can accept safety concerns as a rationale for backing in. But I'm willing to live dangerously for the sake of efficiency, and respecting time constraints of my fellow drivers.

Some people like to race cars, ride bulls, or sky dive. Others indulge in mind-altering substances. For me, there's nothing quite like the rush of running the parking gauntlet.

 

[Instinctive]

This thread really has been interesting. Something I never thought about (I basically always have parked nose in), then actually researched, and the NHTSA, every blue collar profession that involved parking a lot (construction, lineman for utilities, gas, etc), random sources, and Fire Depts unanimously agree it takes less overall time AND increases safety to back into parking spots.

One of the few things where I came in with a "this doesn't matter" opinion and am now thoroughly eye opened to how much it does matter.

I’ll concede a possible safety advantage, but the bolded has not been established in any shape or form, no matter what color collars the parkers are wearing.

It has been established :e:

Ask OSHA

I looked.

There are a bunch of vague statements which stipulate backing in/pulling out can sometimes be more efficient, but nothing which establishes it generally is quicker. Those statements are typically in the same breath as objective safety benefits, but the latter is what does the heavy lifting in suggesting backing in is the better practice overall, imo.

But I’m open to being proven wrong. Can you (or anyone) provide a link with actual data comparing parking times?

2 minute search: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/enha...-benefits-reverse-parking-steven-gibbs-wgysc/

That’s interesting, but includes no objective data showing the totality of backing in/pulling in is faster.*

Like every other article on the subject, it focuses on safety.

What I’m looking for is a controlled setting where groups of parkers, stratified by parking methodology, are timed. Or just someone standing in an actual parking lot, with a stopwatch. That’s not riveting science, of course, but would go a long way to proving which style is most efficient.

*They mention pulling out is generally faster, and I agree. I just don't think it’s fast enough to offset how slow backing in can be.

Their point about when people come/go at work is also interesting, and may be a valid argument for backing in at the workplace specifically, if large groups of people share the same shifts. Personally, I don’t experience an exodus of people when I leave work, nor with most of my day-to-day parking (makes sense at concerts/events though).

Safety is the reason. Sorry if I wasn't clear earlier

It wasn't, and several people proclaimed backing in is faster (@Instinctive even said that opinion was unanimous among experts, in the text above), which is absurd imo.

I can accept safety concerns as a rationale for backing in. But I'm willing to live dangerously for the sake of efficiency, and respecting time constraints of my fellow drivers.

Some people like to race cars, ride bulls, or sky dive. Others indulge in mind-altering substances. For me, there's nothing quite like the rush of running the parking gauntlet.

FWIW, although you are right that JAA is focusing on the safety element, you'll note that his linked source does specifically call out the improved efficiency.

Let's call it what it is - you're an old man who wants to keep doing things like you always have. No amount of anyone telling you what the truth is (by the way, since I'm on pat leave, I went and sat in Costco's lost today for 30 minutes and timed parking - average pull in, 6 seconds, average back in, 8 seconds, average back out, 13 seconds, average pull out, 4 seconds over a 50 car sample) will change your mind. That's ok. But the high and mighty sarcastic "i'll live dangerously" and "respecting time constraints of my fellow drivers" is just obnoxious. Not just because you're wrong, but because you're a jerk about it. Grow up.

 

[the moops]

Also, while I was parking yesterday, I noticed some lots have one way lanes and angled stalls. Shockingly, they were actually angled to promote pulling forward Into spaces. Given the apparent consensus that doing so is both slow and perilous, why engineer parking lots this way?

Engineers do all sorts of crazy dumb stuff to our roadways, I don't see why parking lots should be spared

 

[Terminalxylem]

This thread really has been interesting. Something I never thought about (I basically always have parked nose in), then actually researched, and the NHTSA, every blue collar profession that involved parking a lot (construction, lineman for utilities, gas, etc), random sources, and Fire Depts unanimously agree it takes less overall time AND increases safety to back into parking spots.

One of the few things where I came in with a "this doesn't matter" opinion and am now thoroughly eye opened to how much it does matter.

I’ll concede a possible safety advantage, but the bolded has not been established in any shape or form, no matter what color collars the parkers are wearing.

It has been established :e:

Ask OSHA

I looked.

There are a bunch of vague statements which stipulate backing in/pulling out can sometimes be more efficient, but nothing which establishes it generally is quicker. Those statements are typically in the same breath as objective safety benefits, but the latter is what does the heavy lifting in suggesting backing in is the better practice overall, imo.

But I’m open to being proven wrong. Can you (or anyone) provide a link with actual data comparing parking times?

2 minute search: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/enha...-benefits-reverse-parking-steven-gibbs-wgysc/

That’s interesting, but includes no objective data showing the totality of backing in/pulling in is faster.*

Like every other article on the subject, it focuses on safety.

What I’m looking for is a controlled setting where groups of parkers, stratified by parking methodology, are timed. Or just someone standing in an actual parking lot, with a stopwatch. That’s not riveting science, of course, but would go a long way to proving which style is most efficient.

*They mention pulling out is generally faster, and I agree. I just don't think it’s fast enough to offset how slow backing in can be.

Their point about when people come/go at work is also interesting, and may be a valid argument for backing in at the workplace specifically, if large groups of people share the same shifts. Personally, I don’t experience an exodus of people when I leave work, nor with most of my day-to-day parking (makes sense at concerts/events though).

Safety is the reason. Sorry if I wasn't clear earlier

It wasn't, and several people proclaimed backing in is faster (@Instinctive even said that opinion was unanimous among experts, in the text above), which is absurd imo.

I can accept safety concerns as a rationale for backing in. But I'm willing to live dangerously for the sake of efficiency, and respecting time constraints of my fellow drivers.

Some people like to race cars, ride bulls, or sky dive. Others indulge in mind-altering substances. For me, there's nothing quite like the rush of running the parking gauntlet.

FWIW, although you are right that JAA is focusing on the safety element, you'll note that his linked source does specifically call out the improved efficiency.

Let's call it what it is - you're an old man who wants to keep doing things like you always have. No amount of anyone telling you what the truth is (by the way, since I'm on pat leave, I went and sat in Costco's lost today for 30 minutes and timed parking - average pull in, 6 seconds, average back in, 8 seconds, average back out, 13 seconds, average pull out, 4 seconds over a 50 car sample) will change your mind. That's ok. But the high and mighty sarcastic "i'll live dangerously" and "respecting time constraints of my fellow drivers" is just obnoxious. Not just because you're wrong, but because you're a jerk about it. Grow up.

With all due respect, I don't think this is a grumpy old man thing. It's probably a personal bias based on the vehicle I drive, where and when I go. I have a small car with good visibility, and avoid crowded places, so pulling in and backing out are a breeze 99% of the time. No way do I average anywhere near 6/13 seconds to enter/exit a space, nor do most other drivers pulling in/backing out, when I'm parking. And to be clear, the delays I'm talking about are those due to adjusting and readjusting one's vehicle, not waiting for other cars to pass. Delays the driver can control.

Thanks for collecting data at Costco on a weekend though, a busy venue where I already acknowledged backing in/pulling out has its benefits.

Yes, I was being sarcastic, and tbh, I'm shocked you've taken such offense. People have targeted friendly digs at me in this thread as well, so I didn't think my response was out of line. Nothing personal against you; I'm sorry.

As for calling it what it is: a silly topic on a message board, that no one really is particularly passionate about IRL. The banter was harmless in my mind, intentionally immature. Certainly not worthy of name-calling.

 

[SWC]

the best thing is watching fibs try to back a boat in at launches up north i am not saying we used to grab a beer and sit on our hood and laugh at them but we did used to do that one guy was so bad that after 15 minutes my uncle did it for him take that to the bank brohans

My BiL gave me the best advice for a newbie at this. Grab the steering wheel at the bottom with one hand. Which ever way your hand goes is the direction the trailer/boat will go.

i just back it in because hell yeah i do take that to the bank brochacho

 

[The Z Machine]

I have a medium sized vehicle for Europe. The parking spaces here are TIGHT. Like sometimes you want to fold your mirrors in tight... I find it much easier to back into a tight space using the 2 side mirrors and backup camera to be as straight as possible. Often if I pull in, I cannot do it in one pass because I can't swing the car around wide enough so as not to hit either car on the sides. When backing it, I typically do it in one go.

When I say the parking spaces are tight, I often let people out of the car before pulling in because you can't easily open the door without hitting the car to the side. Like you get 12" of space to slide out of the driver seat when the door is open.

 

[JAA]

This thread really has been interesting. Something I never thought about (I basically always have parked nose in), then actually researched, and the NHTSA, every blue collar profession that involved parking a lot (construction, lineman for utilities, gas, etc), random sources, and Fire Depts unanimously agree it takes less overall time AND increases safety to back into parking spots.

One of the few things where I came in with a "this doesn't matter" opinion and am now thoroughly eye opened to how much it does matter.

I’ll concede a possible safety advantage, but the bolded has not been established in any shape or form, no matter what color collars the parkers are wearing.

It has been established :e:

Ask OSHA

I looked.

There are a bunch of vague statements which stipulate backing in/pulling out can sometimes be more efficient, but nothing which establishes it generally is quicker. Those statements are typically in the same breath as objective safety benefits, but the latter is what does the heavy lifting in suggesting backing in is the better practice overall, imo.

But I’m open to being proven wrong. Can you (or anyone) provide a link with actual data comparing parking times?

2 minute search: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/enha...-benefits-reverse-parking-steven-gibbs-wgysc/

That’s interesting, but includes no objective data showing the totality of backing in/pulling in is faster.*

Like every other article on the subject, it focuses on safety.

What I’m looking for is a controlled setting where groups of parkers, stratified by parking methodology, are timed. Or just someone standing in an actual parking lot, with a stopwatch. That’s not riveting science, of course, but would go a long way to proving which style is most efficient.

*They mention pulling out is generally faster, and I agree. I just don't think it’s fast enough to offset how slow backing in can be.

Their point about when people come/go at work is also interesting, and may be a valid argument for backing in at the workplace specifically, if large groups of people share the same shifts. Personally, I don’t experience an exodus of people when I leave work, nor with most of my day-to-day parking (makes sense at concerts/events though).

Safety is the reason. Sorry if I wasn't clear earlier

It wasn't, and several people proclaimed backing in is faster (@Instinctive even said that opinion was unanimous among experts, in the text above), which is absurd imo.

I can accept safety concerns as a rationale for backing in. But I'm willing to live dangerously for the sake of efficiency, and respecting time constraints of my fellow drivers.

Some people like to race cars, ride bulls, or sky dive. Others indulge in mind-altering substances. For me, there's nothing quite like the rush of running the parking gauntlet.

FWIW, although you are right that JAA is focusing on the safety element, you'll note that his linked source does specifically call out the improved efficiency.

Let's call it what it is - you're an old man who wants to keep doing things like you always have. No amount of anyone telling you what the truth is (by the way, since I'm on pat leave, I went and sat in Costco's lost today for 30 minutes and timed parking - average pull in, 6 seconds, average back in, 8 seconds, average back out, 13 seconds, average pull out, 4 seconds over a 50 car sample) will change your mind. That's ok. But the high and mighty sarcastic "i'll live dangerously" and "respecting time constraints of my fellow drivers" is just obnoxious. Not just because you're wrong, but because you're a jerk about it. Grow up.

With all due respect, I don't think this is a grumpy old man thing. It's probably a personal bias based on the vehicle I drive, where and when I go. I have a small car with good visibility, and avoid crowded places, so pulling in and backing out are a breeze 99% of the time. No way do I average anywhere near 6/13 seconds to enter/exit a space, nor do most other drivers pulling in/backing out, when I'm parking. And to be clear, the delays I'm talking about are those due to adjusting and readjusting one's vehicle, not waiting for other cars to pass. Delays the driver can control.

Thanks for collecting data at Costco on a weekend though, a busy venue where I already acknowledged backing in/pulling out has its benefits.

Yes, I was being sarcastic, and tbh, I'm shocked you've taken such offense. People have targeted friendly digs at me in this thread as well, so I didn't think my response was out of line. Nothing personal against you; I'm sorry.

As for calling it what it is: a silly topic on a message board, that no one really is particularly passionate about IRL. The banter was harmless in my mind, intentionally immature. Certainly not worthy of name-calling.

This really isnt a debate. You are choosing something which is less safe and arguably faster. Good on you for being you.

 

[Terminalxylem]

This thread really has been interesting. Something I never thought about (I basically always have parked nose in), then actually researched, and the NHTSA, every blue collar profession that involved parking a lot (construction, lineman for utilities, gas, etc), random sources, and Fire Depts unanimously agree it takes less overall time AND increases safety to back into parking spots.

One of the few things where I came in with a "this doesn't matter" opinion and am now thoroughly eye opened to how much it does matter.

I’ll concede a possible safety advantage, but the bolded has not been established in any shape or form, no matter what color collars the parkers are wearing.

It has been established :e:

Ask OSHA

I looked.

There are a bunch of vague statements which stipulate backing in/pulling out can sometimes be more efficient, but nothing which establishes it generally is quicker. Those statements are typically in the same breath as objective safety benefits, but the latter is what does the heavy lifting in suggesting backing in is the better practice overall, imo.

But I’m open to being proven wrong. Can you (or anyone) provide a link with actual data comparing parking times?

2 minute search: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/enha...-benefits-reverse-parking-steven-gibbs-wgysc/

That’s interesting, but includes no objective data showing the totality of backing in/pulling in is faster.*

Like every other article on the subject, it focuses on safety.

What I’m looking for is a controlled setting where groups of parkers, stratified by parking methodology, are timed. Or just someone standing in an actual parking lot, with a stopwatch. That’s not riveting science, of course, but would go a long way to proving which style is most efficient.

*They mention pulling out is generally faster, and I agree. I just don't think it’s fast enough to offset how slow backing in can be.

Their point about when people come/go at work is also interesting, and may be a valid argument for backing in at the workplace specifically, if large groups of people share the same shifts. Personally, I don’t experience an exodus of people when I leave work, nor with most of my day-to-day parking (makes sense at concerts/events though).

Safety is the reason. Sorry if I wasn't clear earlier

It wasn't, and several people proclaimed backing in is faster (@Instinctive even said that opinion was unanimous among experts, in the text above), which is absurd imo.

I can accept safety concerns as a rationale for backing in. But I'm willing to live dangerously for the sake of efficiency, and respecting time constraints of my fellow drivers.

Some people like to race cars, ride bulls, or sky dive. Others indulge in mind-altering substances. For me, there's nothing quite like the rush of running the parking gauntlet.

FWIW, although you are right that JAA is focusing on the safety element, you'll note that his linked source does specifically call out the improved efficiency.

Let's call it what it is - you're an old man who wants to keep doing things like you always have. No amount of anyone telling you what the truth is (by the way, since I'm on pat leave, I went and sat in Costco's lost today for 30 minutes and timed parking - average pull in, 6 seconds, average back in, 8 seconds, average back out, 13 seconds, average pull out, 4 seconds over a 50 car sample) will change your mind. That's ok. But the high and mighty sarcastic "i'll live dangerously" and "respecting time constraints of my fellow drivers" is just obnoxious. Not just because you're wrong, but because you're a jerk about it. Grow up.

With all due respect, I don't think this is a grumpy old man thing. It's probably a personal bias based on the vehicle I drive, where and when I go. I have a small car with good visibility, and avoid crowded places, so pulling in and backing out are a breeze 99% of the time. No way do I average anywhere near 6/13 seconds to enter/exit a space, nor do most other drivers pulling in/backing out, when I'm parking. And to be clear, the delays I'm talking about are those due to adjusting and readjusting one's vehicle, not waiting for other cars to pass. Delays the driver can control.

Thanks for collecting data at Costco on a weekend though, a busy venue where I already acknowledged backing in/pulling out has its benefits.

Yes, I was being sarcastic, and tbh, I'm shocked you've taken such offense. People have targeted friendly digs at me in this thread as well, so I didn't think my response was out of line. Nothing personal against you; I'm sorry.

As for calling it what it is: a silly topic on a message board, that no one really is particularly passionate about IRL. The banter was harmless in my mind, intentionally immature. Certainly not worthy of name-calling.

This really isnt a debate. You are choosing something which is less safe and arguably faster. Good on you for being you.

Sure. It’s basically the same decision people make when they speed, or follow at less than recommended “safe” distances. While I don’t know how much additional risk is incurred, it seems pretty inconsequential. I mean, who among us always drives based on optimal safety?

FTR, I consistently speed 5-15 mph over the limit, but don’t tailgate, drive impaired or distracted. My first car was totalled by someone running a red light, and I’ve been hit twice by people changing lanes while I was in their blind spot. Though I possibly could’ve avoided those accidents, none were my fault.

My only parking lot incident occurred because I failed to fully deploy my parking brake, and my empty car rolled back to hit a parked vehicle. That was my fault, and I left a note to take responsibility.

I’ve also had a rental car hit while parked, which was a painful lesson in the limits of credit card insurance. Specifically “loss of use” fees.

So there you have it. Me being me.

 

[Andrew74]

I backed into a spot at work today, and all I thought about was this thread.

 

[Gatorade]

I backed into a spot at work today, and all I thought about was this thread.

First shot ?
Under 10 seconds ?
Backup camera or side mirrors ?
We need details !

 

[JAA]

This thread really has been interesting. Something I never thought about (I basically always have parked nose in), then actually researched, and the NHTSA, every blue collar profession that involved parking a lot (construction, lineman for utilities, gas, etc), random sources, and Fire Depts unanimously agree it takes less overall time AND increases safety to back into parking spots.

One of the few things where I came in with a "this doesn't matter" opinion and am now thoroughly eye opened to how much it does matter.

I’ll concede a possible safety advantage, but the bolded has not been established in any shape or form, no matter what color collars the parkers are wearing.

It has been established :e:

Ask OSHA

I looked.

There are a bunch of vague statements which stipulate backing in/pulling out can sometimes be more efficient, but nothing which establishes it generally is quicker. Those statements are typically in the same breath as objective safety benefits, but the latter is what does the heavy lifting in suggesting backing in is the better practice overall, imo.

But I’m open to being proven wrong. Can you (or anyone) provide a link with actual data comparing parking times?

2 minute search: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/enha...-benefits-reverse-parking-steven-gibbs-wgysc/

That’s interesting, but includes no objective data showing the totality of backing in/pulling in is faster.*

Like every other article on the subject, it focuses on safety.

What I’m looking for is a controlled setting where groups of parkers, stratified by parking methodology, are timed. Or just someone standing in an actual parking lot, with a stopwatch. That’s not riveting science, of course, but would go a long way to proving which style is most efficient.

*They mention pulling out is generally faster, and I agree. I just don't think it’s fast enough to offset how slow backing in can be.

Their point about when people come/go at work is also interesting, and may be a valid argument for backing in at the workplace specifically, if large groups of people share the same shifts. Personally, I don’t experience an exodus of people when I leave work, nor with most of my day-to-day parking (makes sense at concerts/events though).

Safety is the reason. Sorry if I wasn't clear earlier

It wasn't, and several people proclaimed backing in is faster (@Instinctive even said that opinion was unanimous among experts, in the text above), which is absurd imo.

I can accept safety concerns as a rationale for backing in. But I'm willing to live dangerously for the sake of efficiency, and respecting time constraints of my fellow drivers.

Some people like to race cars, ride bulls, or sky dive. Others indulge in mind-altering substances. For me, there's nothing quite like the rush of running the parking gauntlet.

FWIW, although you are right that JAA is focusing on the safety element, you'll note that his linked source does specifically call out the improved efficiency.

Let's call it what it is - you're an old man who wants to keep doing things like you always have. No amount of anyone telling you what the truth is (by the way, since I'm on pat leave, I went and sat in Costco's lost today for 30 minutes and timed parking - average pull in, 6 seconds, average back in, 8 seconds, average back out, 13 seconds, average pull out, 4 seconds over a 50 car sample) will change your mind. That's ok. But the high and mighty sarcastic "i'll live dangerously" and "respecting time constraints of my fellow drivers" is just obnoxious. Not just because you're wrong, but because you're a jerk about it. Grow up.

With all due respect, I don't think this is a grumpy old man thing. It's probably a personal bias based on the vehicle I drive, where and when I go. I have a small car with good visibility, and avoid crowded places, so pulling in and backing out are a breeze 99% of the time. No way do I average anywhere near 6/13 seconds to enter/exit a space, nor do most other drivers pulling in/backing out, when I'm parking. And to be clear, the delays I'm talking about are those due to adjusting and readjusting one's vehicle, not waiting for other cars to pass. Delays the driver can control.

Thanks for collecting data at Costco on a weekend though, a busy venue where I already acknowledged backing in/pulling out has its benefits.

Yes, I was being sarcastic, and tbh, I'm shocked you've taken such offense. People have targeted friendly digs at me in this thread as well, so I didn't think my response was out of line. Nothing personal against you; I'm sorry.

As for calling it what it is: a silly topic on a message board, that no one really is particularly passionate about IRL. The banter was harmless in my mind, intentionally immature. Certainly not worthy of name-calling.

This really isnt a debate. You are choosing something which is less safe and arguably faster. Good on you for being you.

Sure. It’s basically the same decision people make when they speed, or follow at less than recommended “safe” distances. While I don’t know how much additional risk is incurred, it seems pretty inconsequential. I mean, who among us is always drives based on optimal safety?

FTR, I consistently speed 5-15 mph over the limit, but don’t tailgate, drive impaired or distracted. My first car was totalled by someone running a red light, and I’ve been hit twice by people changing lanes while I was in their blind spot. Though I possibly could’ve avoided those accidents, none were my fault.

My only parking lot incident occurred because I failed to fully deploy my parking brake, and my empty car rolled back to hit a parked vehicle. That was my fault, and I left a note to take responsibility.

I’ve also had a rental car hit while parked, which was a painful lesson in the limits of credit card insurance. Specifically “loss of use” fees.

So there you have it. Me being me.

Thank you for continually and in complete succession making my point?

 

[Terminalxylem]

This thread really has been interesting. Something I never thought about (I basically always have parked nose in), then actually researched, and the NHTSA, every blue collar profession that involved parking a lot (construction, lineman for utilities, gas, etc), random sources, and Fire Depts unanimously agree it takes less overall time AND increases safety to back into parking spots.

One of the few things where I came in with a "this doesn't matter" opinion and am now thoroughly eye opened to how much it does matter.

I’ll concede a possible safety advantage, but the bolded has not been established in any shape or form, no matter what color collars the parkers are wearing.

It has been established :e:

Ask OSHA

I looked.

There are a bunch of vague statements which stipulate backing in/pulling out can sometimes be more efficient, but nothing which establishes it generally is quicker. Those statements are typically in the same breath as objective safety benefits, but the latter is what does the heavy lifting in suggesting backing in is the better practice overall, imo.

But I’m open to being proven wrong. Can you (or anyone) provide a link with actual data comparing parking times?

2 minute search: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/enha...-benefits-reverse-parking-steven-gibbs-wgysc/

That’s interesting, but includes no objective data showing the totality of backing in/pulling in is faster.*

Like every other article on the subject, it focuses on safety.

What I’m looking for is a controlled setting where groups of parkers, stratified by parking methodology, are timed. Or just someone standing in an actual parking lot, with a stopwatch. That’s not riveting science, of course, but would go a long way to proving which style is most efficient.

*They mention pulling out is generally faster, and I agree. I just don't think it’s fast enough to offset how slow backing in can be.

Their point about when people come/go at work is also interesting, and may be a valid argument for backing in at the workplace specifically, if large groups of people share the same shifts. Personally, I don’t experience an exodus of people when I leave work, nor with most of my day-to-day parking (makes sense at concerts/events though).

Safety is the reason. Sorry if I wasn't clear earlier

It wasn't, and several people proclaimed backing in is faster (@Instinctive even said that opinion was unanimous among experts, in the text above), which is absurd imo.

I can accept safety concerns as a rationale for backing in. But I'm willing to live dangerously for the sake of efficiency, and respecting time constraints of my fellow drivers.

Some people like to race cars, ride bulls, or sky dive. Others indulge in mind-altering substances. For me, there's nothing quite like the rush of running the parking gauntlet.

FWIW, although you are right that JAA is focusing on the safety element, you'll note that his linked source does specifically call out the improved efficiency.

Let's call it what it is - you're an old man who wants to keep doing things like you always have. No amount of anyone telling you what the truth is (by the way, since I'm on pat leave, I went and sat in Costco's lost today for 30 minutes and timed parking - average pull in, 6 seconds, average back in, 8 seconds, average back out, 13 seconds, average pull out, 4 seconds over a 50 car sample) will change your mind. That's ok. But the high and mighty sarcastic "i'll live dangerously" and "respecting time constraints of my fellow drivers" is just obnoxious. Not just because you're wrong, but because you're a jerk about it. Grow up.

With all due respect, I don't think this is a grumpy old man thing. It's probably a personal bias based on the vehicle I drive, where and when I go. I have a small car with good visibility, and avoid crowded places, so pulling in and backing out are a breeze 99% of the time. No way do I average anywhere near 6/13 seconds to enter/exit a space, nor do most other drivers pulling in/backing out, when I'm parking. And to be clear, the delays I'm talking about are those due to adjusting and readjusting one's vehicle, not waiting for other cars to pass. Delays the driver can control.

Thanks for collecting data at Costco on a weekend though, a busy venue where I already acknowledged backing in/pulling out has its benefits.

Yes, I was being sarcastic, and tbh, I'm shocked you've taken such offense. People have targeted friendly digs at me in this thread as well, so I didn't think my response was out of line. Nothing personal against you; I'm sorry.

As for calling it what it is: a silly topic on a message board, that no one really is particularly passionate about IRL. The banter was harmless in my mind, intentionally immature. Certainly not worthy of name-calling.

This really isnt a debate. You are choosing something which is less safe and arguably faster. Good on you for being you.

Sure. It’s basically the same decision people make when they speed, or follow at less than recommended “safe” distances. While I don’t know how much additional risk is incurred, it seems pretty inconsequential. I mean, who among us is always drives based on optimal safety?

FTR, I consistently speed 5-15 mph over the limit, but don’t tailgate, drive impaired or distracted. My first car was totalled by someone running a red light, and I’ve been hit twice by people changing lanes while I was in their blind spot. Though I possibly could’ve avoided those accidents, none were my fault.

My only parking lot incident occurred because I failed to fully deploy my parking brake, and my empty car rolled back to hit a parked vehicle. That was my fault, and I left a note to take responsibility.

I’ve also had a rental car hit while parked, which was a painful lesson in the limits of credit card insurance. Specifically “loss of use” fees.

So there you have it. Me being me.

Thank you for continually and in complete succession making my point?

If your point is someone can drive several decades without harming other drivers/pedestrians/property, despite making poorly quantified "unsafe" decisions, you're welcome.

I'm also pretty sure sure you, like all drivers, occasionally make unsafe decisions, despite knowing better.

 

[MTskibum]

the best thing is watching fibs try to back a boat in at launches up north i am not saying we used to grab a beer and sit on our hood and laugh at them but we did used to do that one guy was so bad that after 15 minutes my uncle did it for him take that to the bank brohans

Wannabe redneck here, moving my simple 21' open bow is an absolute anxiety attack for me. This is with an 04 RAM 5.7 AWS long bed quad cab, so the issue isnt the horse ...

Slow Pro, Fast A.ss

You go slow, you look like a pro
You go fast, you look like an a.ss

Words to live by. I repeat this to my 17 year old every time he takes the boat out. It's not a race on the boat ramp.

It is practice, once you have solo launched a boat a hundred plus times it is easy.

 

[JAA]

This thread really has been interesting. Something I never thought about (I basically always have parked nose in), then actually researched, and the NHTSA, every blue collar profession that involved parking a lot (construction, lineman for utilities, gas, etc), random sources, and Fire Depts unanimously agree it takes less overall time AND increases safety to back into parking spots.

One of the few things where I came in with a "this doesn't matter" opinion and am now thoroughly eye opened to how much it does matter.

I’ll concede a possible safety advantage, but the bolded has not been established in any shape or form, no matter what color collars the parkers are wearing.

It has been established :e:

Ask OSHA

I looked.

There are a bunch of vague statements which stipulate backing in/pulling out can sometimes be more efficient, but nothing which establishes it generally is quicker. Those statements are typically in the same breath as objective safety benefits, but the latter is what does the heavy lifting in suggesting backing in is the better practice overall, imo.

But I’m open to being proven wrong. Can you (or anyone) provide a link with actual data comparing parking times?

2 minute search: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/enha...-benefits-reverse-parking-steven-gibbs-wgysc/

That’s interesting, but includes no objective data showing the totality of backing in/pulling in is faster.*

Like every other article on the subject, it focuses on safety.

What I’m looking for is a controlled setting where groups of parkers, stratified by parking methodology, are timed. Or just someone standing in an actual parking lot, with a stopwatch. That’s not riveting science, of course, but would go a long way to proving which style is most efficient.

*They mention pulling out is generally faster, and I agree. I just don't think it’s fast enough to offset how slow backing in can be.

Their point about when people come/go at work is also interesting, and may be a valid argument for backing in at the workplace specifically, if large groups of people share the same shifts. Personally, I don’t experience an exodus of people when I leave work, nor with most of my day-to-day parking (makes sense at concerts/events though).

Safety is the reason. Sorry if I wasn't clear earlier

It wasn't, and several people proclaimed backing in is faster (@Instinctive even said that opinion was unanimous among experts, in the text above), which is absurd imo.

I can accept safety concerns as a rationale for backing in. But I'm willing to live dangerously for the sake of efficiency, and respecting time constraints of my fellow drivers.

Some people like to race cars, ride bulls, or sky dive. Others indulge in mind-altering substances. For me, there's nothing quite like the rush of running the parking gauntlet.

FWIW, although you are right that JAA is focusing on the safety element, you'll note that his linked source does specifically call out the improved efficiency.

Let's call it what it is - you're an old man who wants to keep doing things like you always have. No amount of anyone telling you what the truth is (by the way, since I'm on pat leave, I went and sat in Costco's lost today for 30 minutes and timed parking - average pull in, 6 seconds, average back in, 8 seconds, average back out, 13 seconds, average pull out, 4 seconds over a 50 car sample) will change your mind. That's ok. But the high and mighty sarcastic "i'll live dangerously" and "respecting time constraints of my fellow drivers" is just obnoxious. Not just because you're wrong, but because you're a jerk about it. Grow up.

With all due respect, I don't think this is a grumpy old man thing. It's probably a personal bias based on the vehicle I drive, where and when I go. I have a small car with good visibility, and avoid crowded places, so pulling in and backing out are a breeze 99% of the time. No way do I average anywhere near 6/13 seconds to enter/exit a space, nor do most other drivers pulling in/backing out, when I'm parking. And to be clear, the delays I'm talking about are those due to adjusting and readjusting one's vehicle, not waiting for other cars to pass. Delays the driver can control.

Thanks for collecting data at Costco on a weekend though, a busy venue where I already acknowledged backing in/pulling out has its benefits.

Yes, I was being sarcastic, and tbh, I'm shocked you've taken such offense. People have targeted friendly digs at me in this thread as well, so I didn't think my response was out of line. Nothing personal against you; I'm sorry.

As for calling it what it is: a silly topic on a message board, that no one really is particularly passionate about IRL. The banter was harmless in my mind, intentionally immature. Certainly not worthy of name-calling.

This really isnt a debate. You are choosing something which is less safe and arguably faster. Good on you for being you.

Sure. It’s basically the same decision people make when they speed, or follow at less than recommended “safe” distances. While I don’t know how much additional risk is incurred, it seems pretty inconsequential. I mean, who among us is always drives based on optimal safety?

FTR, I consistently speed 5-15 mph over the limit, but don’t tailgate, drive impaired or distracted. My first car was totalled by someone running a red light, and I’ve been hit twice by people changing lanes while I was in their blind spot. Though I possibly could’ve avoided those accidents, none were my fault.

My only parking lot incident occurred because I failed to fully deploy my parking brake, and my empty car rolled back to hit a parked vehicle. That was my fault, and I left a note to take responsibility.

I’ve also had a rental car hit while parked, which was a painful lesson in the limits of credit card insurance. Specifically “loss of use” fees.

So there you have it. Me being me.

Thank you for continually and in complete succession making my point?

If your point is someone can drive several decades without harming other drivers/pedestrians/property, despite making poorly quantified "unsafe" decisions, you're welcome.

I'm also pretty sure sure you, like all drivers, occasionally make unsafe decisions, despite knowing better.

LOL at equating your duration of driving experience as some "protector" or accidents.

Safety isnt about "unsafe" vs "safe". Safety is about making decisions based on the information you have available.

You strike me as someone who would have used the "I dont need seatbelts because Im a safe driver" argument 40 years ago.

 

[SWC]

my big thing is that backing in is cooler take that to the bank brochachos

 

[Terminalxylem]

This thread really has been interesting. Something I never thought about (I basically always have parked nose in), then actually researched, and the NHTSA, every blue collar profession that involved parking a lot (construction, lineman for utilities, gas, etc), random sources, and Fire Depts unanimously agree it takes less overall time AND increases safety to back into parking spots.

One of the few things where I came in with a "this doesn't matter" opinion and am now thoroughly eye opened to how much it does matter.

I’ll concede a possible safety advantage, but the bolded has not been established in any shape or form, no matter what color collars the parkers are wearing.

It has been established :e:

Ask OSHA

I looked.

There are a bunch of vague statements which stipulate backing in/pulling out can sometimes be more efficient, but nothing which establishes it generally is quicker. Those statements are typically in the same breath as objective safety benefits, but the latter is what does the heavy lifting in suggesting backing in is the better practice overall, imo.

But I’m open to being proven wrong. Can you (or anyone) provide a link with actual data comparing parking times?

2 minute search: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/enha...-benefits-reverse-parking-steven-gibbs-wgysc/

That’s interesting, but includes no objective data showing the totality of backing in/pulling in is faster.*

Like every other article on the subject, it focuses on safety.

What I’m looking for is a controlled setting where groups of parkers, stratified by parking methodology, are timed. Or just someone standing in an actual parking lot, with a stopwatch. That’s not riveting science, of course, but would go a long way to proving which style is most efficient.

*They mention pulling out is generally faster, and I agree. I just don't think it’s fast enough to offset how slow backing in can be.

Their point about when people come/go at work is also interesting, and may be a valid argument for backing in at the workplace specifically, if large groups of people share the same shifts. Personally, I don’t experience an exodus of people when I leave work, nor with most of my day-to-day parking (makes sense at concerts/events though).

Safety is the reason. Sorry if I wasn't clear earlier

It wasn't, and several people proclaimed backing in is faster (@Instinctive even said that opinion was unanimous among experts, in the text above), which is absurd imo.

I can accept safety concerns as a rationale for backing in. But I'm willing to live dangerously for the sake of efficiency, and respecting time constraints of my fellow drivers.

Some people like to race cars, ride bulls, or sky dive. Others indulge in mind-altering substances. For me, there's nothing quite like the rush of running the parking gauntlet.

FWIW, although you are right that JAA is focusing on the safety element, you'll note that his linked source does specifically call out the improved efficiency.

Let's call it what it is - you're an old man who wants to keep doing things like you always have. No amount of anyone telling you what the truth is (by the way, since I'm on pat leave, I went and sat in Costco's lost today for 30 minutes and timed parking - average pull in, 6 seconds, average back in, 8 seconds, average back out, 13 seconds, average pull out, 4 seconds over a 50 car sample) will change your mind. That's ok. But the high and mighty sarcastic "i'll live dangerously" and "respecting time constraints of my fellow drivers" is just obnoxious. Not just because you're wrong, but because you're a jerk about it. Grow up.

With all due respect, I don't think this is a grumpy old man thing. It's probably a personal bias based on the vehicle I drive, where and when I go. I have a small car with good visibility, and avoid crowded places, so pulling in and backing out are a breeze 99% of the time. No way do I average anywhere near 6/13 seconds to enter/exit a space, nor do most other drivers pulling in/backing out, when I'm parking. And to be clear, the delays I'm talking about are those due to adjusting and readjusting one's vehicle, not waiting for other cars to pass. Delays the driver can control.

Thanks for collecting data at Costco on a weekend though, a busy venue where I already acknowledged backing in/pulling out has its benefits.

Yes, I was being sarcastic, and tbh, I'm shocked you've taken such offense. People have targeted friendly digs at me in this thread as well, so I didn't think my response was out of line. Nothing personal against you; I'm sorry.

As for calling it what it is: a silly topic on a message board, that no one really is particularly passionate about IRL. The banter was harmless in my mind, intentionally immature. Certainly not worthy of name-calling.

This really isnt a debate. You are choosing something which is less safe and arguably faster. Good on you for being you.

Sure. It’s basically the same decision people make when they speed, or follow at less than recommended “safe” distances. While I don’t know how much additional risk is incurred, it seems pretty inconsequential. I mean, who among us is always drives based on optimal safety?

FTR, I consistently speed 5-15 mph over the limit, but don’t tailgate, drive impaired or distracted. My first car was totalled by someone running a red light, and I’ve been hit twice by people changing lanes while I was in their blind spot. Though I possibly could’ve avoided those accidents, none were my fault.

My only parking lot incident occurred because I failed to fully deploy my parking brake, and my empty car rolled back to hit a parked vehicle. That was my fault, and I left a note to take responsibility.

I’ve also had a rental car hit while parked, which was a painful lesson in the limits of credit card insurance. Specifically “loss of use” fees.

So there you have it. Me being me.

Thank you for continually and in complete succession making my point?

If your point is someone can drive several decades without harming other drivers/pedestrians/property, despite making poorly quantified "unsafe" decisions, you're welcome.

I'm also pretty sure sure you, like all drivers, occasionally make unsafe decisions, despite knowing better.

LOL at equating your duration of driving experience as some "protector" or accidents.

Safety isnt about "unsafe" vs "safe". Safety is about making decisions based on the information you have available.

You strike me as someone who would have used the "I dont need seatbelts because Im a safe driver" argument 40 years ago.

Not really. I generally follow the rules, including those which promote safety.

But this isn’t really a rule, and the magnitude of benefit it provides isn’t clear. My personal experience suggests pulling forward can be accomplished safely though.

Doing something else for years doesn’t mean that behavior is a “protector” either. Could just be dumb luck, or maybe, just maybe, parking direction doesn’t make that big a difference, safety wise?

Certainly not enough to make it a law, unlike seatbelts and speed limits. Or judge those who make the “less safe” decision.

 

[Andrew74]

I backed into a spot at work today, and all I thought about was this thread.

First shot ?
Under 10 seconds ?
Backup camera or side mirrors ?
We need details !

Yes
Yes
Both

No one was around so I didn’t feel like a jerk.

 

[Runkle]

Someone PLEASE make it make sense.

I'm at the grocery store.

The spots in the parking lot are all slant-angled, at like 30 degrees, not perpendicular. So as you're driving forward you can just steer right in off to the side.

Some lanes in the lot aren't wide enough for two cars going in opposite directions, maybe only one-and-a-half-wide, these are "one way" parking aisles and the spots on both sides are angled toward you for easy parking left or right side.

Yet, invariably, some old hairdo in a giant SUV will decide she wants to back in. Which requires going past the spot, reversing through now a 120 degree arc? And even presumably with a backup camera takes five minutes and 18 back and forth adjustments to figure out the angle. And is blocking everyone else from going down the lane.

So she can back in.

AT THE GROCERY STORE

So now when she leaves she's going to have to push the shopping cart between her giant behemoth and some poor other guy's car that is of course going to get dinged in the process, so she can stand behind her SUV and try loading it from the back where the car from the other lane is also there so there's no room??

And then when she pulls out she's facing the wrong direction of travel and is going to have to make that 120 degree arc again to get out?

Why woman?

 

[MTskibum]

Almost every parking problem is solved by parking at the back(Front?) where nobody parks and walking farther. Nobody ever waits on me and i almost never wait on anybody else pulling into or backing out of parking spots.

 

[Terminalxylem]

Almost every parking problem is solved by parking at the back(Front?) where nobody parks and walking farther. Nobody ever waits on me and i almost never wait on anybody else pulling into or backing out of parking spots.

In most situations, I agree.

My problem is parking decks, where there isn’t the luxury of immediately choosing the furthest spot. Specifically, my work deck, where I am delayed pretty routinely by backer-inners.

The secondary problem, created by this thread, is gaslighting that backing in at least as fast, if not faster than pulling forward. That’s just crazy talk.

I’d also like some quantification of the purported safety benefit

 

[The Z Machine]

Someone PLEASE make it make sense.

I'm at the grocery store.

The spots in the parking lot are all slant-angled, at like 30 degrees, not perpendicular. So as you're driving forward you can just steer right in off to the side.

Some lanes in the lot aren't wide enough for two cars going in opposite directions, maybe only one-and-a-half-wide, these are "one way" parking aisles and the spots on both sides are angled toward you for easy parking left or right side.

Yet, invariably, some old hairdo in a giant SUV will decide she wants to back in. Which requires going past the spot, reversing through now a 120 degree arc? And even presumably with a backup camera takes five minutes and 18 back and forth adjustments to figure out the angle. And is blocking everyone else from going down the lane.

So she can back in.

AT THE GROCERY STORE

So now when she leaves she's going to have to push the shopping cart between her giant behemoth and some poor other guy's car that is of course going to get dinged in the process, so she can stand behind her SUV and try loading it from the back where the car from the other lane is also there so there's no room??

And then when she pulls out she's facing the wrong direction of travel and is going to have to make that 120 degree arc again to get out?

Why woman?

Did she pull thru inadvertently?

 

[Navin Johnson]

Almost every parking problem is solved by parking at the back(Front?) where nobody parks and walking farther. Nobody ever waits on me and i almost never wait on anybody else pulling into or backing out of parking spots.

In most situations, I agree.

My problem is parking decks, where there isn’t the luxury of immediately choosing the furthest spot. Specifically, my work deck, where I am delayed pretty routinely by backer-inners.

The secondary problem, created by this thread, is gaslighting that backing in at least as fast, if not faster than pulling forward. That’s just crazy talk.

I’d also like some quantification of the purported safety benefit

Only one person gaslighting in this thread, Ace

 

[the moops]

where I am delayed pretty routinely by backer-inners.

 

[John Maddens Lunchbox]

Depends on the situation, but I can be more precise with the rear camera into a tight space then if I gauge it going straight in. If it's busy or something I won't bother. But if I have the time and there are straight spaces and not slanted..i'll back it in.

Easy out for the win.

This. @urbanhack knows.

Don't do it if backing in is going to hold up traffic. But otherwise, it's optimal.

I fully support people backing in in all situations if they so choose so long as it isn’t holding up anyone.

Don’t think anyone has an issue if there’s nobody behind you.

And I think that’s the rub. If you are choosing to back in (which is no doubt a longer process) and someone is waiting behind you, you are inconveniencing that person.

If you instead pull in straight, when you back out of the space, you have to wait for it to be clear for you to do so, which inconveniences you.

If there is no one behind you when you choose to back in, I agree that backing in is optimal or at least a wash. The question for me is whether it is justified to make other people wait while you back in. I think at concerts and sporting events it makes sense because everyone is better served by being able to pull straight out when traffic is at its worst. In other circumstances I’m not so sure.

The voice of sanity and reason.
Its irritating me more and more when someone takes 3 or 4 goes to reverse their vehicle in. By that stage there is a trail of 4 or 5 cars that are held up.
In all my time driving ive maybe had an issue reversing out of a spot twice.
Front in is so much quicker and getting out is just a matter of timing. As it would be if i were reversing in.

More and more people are reversing in. I just dont get it.
Are they being selfish or practical? Technology has made it easier, sure.
Doesn't seem that practical to me and the thought of me holding up other drivers is intolerable.

Edit - the most practical advantage, as others have pointed out, is loading the trunk is much harder if you reverse. Then you bastages just leave your trolley near where your car was

 

[Terminalxylem]

where I am delayed pretty routinely by backer-inners.

Why would anyone make this up? Do you think the OP, and posters like @John Maddens Lunchbox are just conjuring their irritation out of thin air?

On the flip side, there is incentive to claim every back-in is rapid and seamless, as proxy to say, I am a good driver.

 

[Courtjester]

I am late to the party but my .02---backing in makes sense if you are loading a large item into your trunk and are in an outside row. If it is a double row of cars, it just makes zero sense because it reduces the area you have to work with. Another acceptable use of the back in IMO is concerts or sporting events to just ease in getting out of there. However, if I am in a line of cars following you down a row of cars at Target and you dive by a parking spot and think that by those backup lights coming on is somehow going to reserve that spot, too late--I am pulling in forward in that spot.

 

[the moops]

where I am delayed pretty routinely by backer-inners.

Why would anyone make this up? Do you think the OP, and posters like @John Maddens Lunchbox are just conjuring their irritation out of thin air?

On the flip side, there is incentive to claim every back-in is rapid and seamless, as proxy to say, I am a good driver.

I am skeptical of your take that this delays you routinely.

 

[John Maddens Lunchbox]

where I am delayed pretty routinely by backer-inners.

Why would anyone make this up? Do you think the OP, and posters like @John Maddens Lunchbox are just conjuring their irritation out of thin air?

On the flip side, there is incentive to claim every back-in is rapid and seamless, as proxy to say, I am a good driver.

I am skeptical of your take that this delays you routinely.

Just yesterday in a difficult to park in shopping centre where spots are limited, 4 separate drivers held up the trailing line of 10+ cars with their interminably lengthy reverse ins. The best effort was 2 reverse attempts. One joker took 5 goes. Thats why im in this thread lol
3 drivers went in front forward. Miraculously all only took one attempt. Then i found a spot, and what do you know. First go front in first.

It is becoming more common for mine and others time to be delayed while the reverser goes in that way. And then makes it difficult by leaving their shopping cart near where the trunk was. If you are gonna inconvenience people, go the whole hog seems to be their motto.

 

[Drunken knight]

where I am delayed pretty routinely by backer-inners.

Why would anyone make this up? Do you think the OP, and posters like @John Maddens Lunchbox are just conjuring their irritation out of thin air?

On the flip side, there is incentive to claim every back-in is rapid and seamless, as proxy to say, I am a good driver.

I am skeptical of your take that this delays you routinely.

My experience is that a high percentage of those backing in take more than one attempt. Yes, safer leaving AND takes longer going in.

 

[Manster]

Backing in, where is doesn't make sense, is the same as the people who park too close to the line, or just can't park in general. There's a lot of bad drivers out there. These people typically don't care about inconveniencing others, in my experience.

 

[Instinctive]

I am late to the party but my .02---backing in makes sense if you are loading a large item into your trunk and are in an outside row. If it is a double row of cars, it just makes zero sense because it reduces the area you have to work with. Another acceptable use of the back in IMO is concerts or sporting events to just ease in getting out of there. However, if I am in a line of cars following you down a row of cars at Target and you dive by a parking spot and think that by those backup lights coming on is somehow going to reserve that spot, too late--I am pulling in forward in that spot.

I'd love to see someone do this. I don't think I've ever been tailed so closely in a lot as to make this an issue. I think it's just macho internet talk.