Concept Coop
Footballguy
His catch rate and YPC are a product of use over a 2 game span. That usage and catch rate will both move towards his career average, which shows he makes plays, and catches the football.
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Buy Dez bryant Right now (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Shutout
- Start date
ok cool. then we can stop citing his 70% catch rate as a great indication of his abilities and go back to using ~62%. which is fine, but not setting him apart from many others in the league.
Concept Coop
Footballguy
We are using his 70% catch rate to counter the "poor hands" label he is getting for this season. Sure, his drops were big and in prime time, but his hands clearly arent' poor. That's all I have and I am fine moving on.
UFGator0587
Footballguy
Unless you're absolutely loaded at WR I can't imagine who you would be sitting him for.
Ace zero1
Footballguy
Right now I have josh Gordon playing over Dez. I'm nervous about starting Dez.
Concept Coop
Footballguy
I have to think Dez is safer, with just as much upside. Considering benching him for Austin, Nicks, Wallace.
Ace zero1
Footballguy
Eh. I'd rather start Gordon. San Diego is terrible vs the pass and the deep ball and also playing rashad Jennings at flex over Dez.
donkshow
Footballguy
Because the Colts are known to shut down the pass..
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Yeah Dez is quickly going the way of Koren Robinson and the hundred other first round busts. Remember when the Broncos were panned for selecting Thomas over Dez?
Concept Coop
Footballguy
What? He was hurt. He'd been playing great, when healhty. Clearly an NFL #1, talent wise. And the media blasted the Broncos, as did us fans. But he fell for a reason - the Broncos weren't the only ones who were worried about Bryant.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
No, he isn't even the best receiver on his own team. He isn't a fantasy 1 or even a 2. He's just a guy.
Concept Coop
Footballguy
This is silly. If I had to guess, you didn't realize he was hurt when you made your comment, and needed to cover your tracks.
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jurb26
Footballguy
Please, everyone realized he was hurt. It was all over this site, the net and every sports channel all week. Not every thinks he is as good as you is all.
Concept Coop
Footballguy
Then why question his numbers, when he isn't healthy? He was very clearly having a very good, WR1 stretch when healthy. Also - "just a guy"? Call him an idiot, claim he is overrated. All fair play. But calling him a bust and just a guy? Silly.
jurb26
Footballguy
I don't know. Clearly Saber is pretty down on him. Personally, I think saying he is just a guy is drastic. Perhaps he just meant from a production standpoint. IMO, Bryant isn't as talented as he's given credit for around here. He's good, but not great. Mentally he just doesn't seem to get it despite his physical ability. Maybe the light will go on for him but like I said way back at the start of this thread, I think he will tease owners ( and Dal fans) with his massive ups and downs.
Concept Coop
Footballguy
As an owner and Dallas fan, I think what you say is fair. I just wish Dallas' offense was more stable, so there wouldn't be so much work in deciding who this kid is. I know this might not be a popular opinion today, but I truly think the kid is a top 5 talent. To put a name and face to it, I think he is a better player than Julio Jones. But there is so much baggage, on and off the field, that I won't value Dez as such. As a fan and owner, I will likely be going down with the ship, or living to see the potential.
jurb26
Footballguy
Physically I'd say he is in the top 15. That's damn good. Unfortunately for him, you (as an owner) and Dal, in the NFL the game is probably 80% mental and 20% physical. This is why I've always laughed when people tried to say that Randy Moss only got by on physical ability. You say he's top 5. I won't argue with you, that's not terribly far from my top 15. Where would you say he is mentally though? Bottom 5 of the starting NFL WRs? Bottom 25? The problem with guys like Bryant, who are used to getting by on physical ability, is the NFL offers too much competition for that to work consistently. Nobody, no matter how talented physically can get by on that alone. At least not for a prolonged duration. It's just my opinion of corse but that's the kind of player I see in Bryant. A guy who just doesn't get it that he has to have his work mirror his ability. His understanding of the game has to parallel his natural athletic ability. The only real question is how likely do you think he is to doing this, now or ever?
Concept Coop
Footballguy
It's really hard to say or put a number on it. Obviously, the mental aspect of his game lends a lot to be desired. There are times where I think "I'm out" and am tempted to put him on the block. And there are times when I think he's the next big WR. I am usually willing to gamble and that could be why I like Dez more than most.
Peak
Footballguy
I need a reason not to drop him today. My team is hurting and I can't keep starting him based on potential.
When does production out-trump potential in these situations?
When I play him, he nets less than 6 points. When I bench him, his "potential" shines as he gets 12+ points.
When does production out-trump potential in these situations?
When I play him, he nets less than 6 points. When I bench him, his "potential" shines as he gets 12+ points.
He played hurt last night. Period. He was used a lot as a decoy and to stretch the defense (not that it worked). Romo actually went deep to him and had romo put the ball a little higher in the air and let Bryant go up and get it wed be talking about his gorgeous looking td catch while nursing a bad hip. I put that on romo. The pass was short/too low.
Concept Coop
Footballguy
When he is hurt, I would sit him. He is a matchup play, as a WR1/2, however. The Dallas passing offense is really good, when it's forced to be. Any matchups that could potentially force Dallas to play catchup - I'd play him.I need a reason not to drop him today. My team is hurting and I can't keep starting him based on potential. When does production out-trump potential in these situations?When I play him, he nets less than 6 points. When I bench him, his "potential" shines as he gets 12+ points.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Meh, is he even in the top 30 for wideouts anymore? Sometimes when it looks like #### and smells like ####, it's not pudding.
It's ####.
It's ####.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
so he's a wr1 that you can't play when he is dinged up or when he has tough matchups?When he is hurt, I would sit him. He is a matchup play, as a WR1/2, however. The Dallas passing offense is really good, when it's forced to be. Any matchups that could potentially force Dallas to play catchup - I'd play him.I need a reason not to drop him today. My team is hurting and I can't keep starting him based on potential. When does production out-trump potential in these situations?When I play him, he nets less than 6 points. When I bench him, his "potential" shines as he gets 12+ points.
wiscstlatlmia
Footballguy
Still happy I sold Dez... he is so frustrating
Britt is the same thing...
Nicks is the same...
Jonathan Stewart is the same...
those guys are miserable to own, just eating up roster space and killing your weekly scores while guys you could be trading for (Vincent Jackson, Roddy White, Reggie Wayne) are killing you.
Now if only I could get over my McFadden addiction... baby steps, right?
Britt is the same thing...
Nicks is the same...
Jonathan Stewart is the same...
those guys are miserable to own, just eating up roster space and killing your weekly scores while guys you could be trading for (Vincent Jackson, Roddy White, Reggie Wayne) are killing you.
Now if only I could get over my McFadden addiction... baby steps, right?
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Chris Johnson is another.
Concept Coop
Footballguy
Yes.so he's a wr1 that you can't play when he is dinged up or when he has tough matchups?When he is hurt, I would sit him. He is a matchup play, as a WR1/2, however. The Dallas passing offense is really good, when it's forced to be. Any matchups that could potentially force Dallas to play catchup - I'd play him.I need a reason not to drop him today. My team is hurting and I can't keep starting him based on potential. When does production out-trump potential in these situations?When I play him, he nets less than 6 points. When I bench him, his "potential" shines as he gets 12+ points.
Quick slant
Footballguy
Sadly, I have three of those four (Bryant, Nicks and Stewart) on one of my redraft teams. Needless to say, that team isn't dong very well.
Bobby Guano
Footballguy
This is classic...If you can't trust your WR1 when he's a little dinged or does not have an ideal match up is he really a WR1?Yes.so he's a wr1 that you can't play when he is dinged up or when he has tough matchups?When he is hurt, I would sit him. He is a matchup play, as a WR1/2, however. The Dallas passing offense is really good, when it's forced to be. Any matchups that could potentially force Dallas to play catchup - I'd play him.I need a reason not to drop him today. My team is hurting and I can't keep starting him based on potential.
When does production out-trump potential in these situations?
When I play him, he nets less than 6 points. When I bench him, his "potential" shines as he gets 12+ points.
ItsOnlytheRiver
Footballguy
All three of those WRs you mentioned weren't worth owning until they were 25 or older. Wanna guess which of Britt, Dez and Nicks are 25?
Banger
Footballguy
Haha. Wow. On mye team at the beginning of this year I had britt (dealt), dez (dealt), Stewart (trying to deal) and Chris Johnson (holding). I'm a glutton for punishment. Had dez for 3 years and do glad I dealt him. I'm convinced he's going to be good at some point and I'm ok with that. I just got sick of the up and down roller coaster.
Shutout
Footballguy
It's so easy to crucify a super young player based on a bad month, season, etc. while ignoring the big picture.Look at the guys you listed. Britt, Nicks, JSTEW. Wasn't it just last season when Britt was being lauded as the next BIG BIG thing? Wasn't it just a year and a half ago when Nicks, in a dynasty, was about as untouchable as Calvin Johnson? Doesn't JSTEW carry an immense amount of value in Dynasty? I'm sure someone will want to nit-pick those questions but let's keep it simple: the answers are yes. Don't waste 5 minutes of your life restating how frustrated you were in 2010 about this or that...keep it on topic. All the players you mentioned, as well as Bryant, have had very good periods and Britt, Nicks, and JSTEW have all commanded an enormous amount of dynasty value. And that can not be ignored.I'm sorry if you're impatient or require sustained instant gratification in order to label anything in fantasy football anything but a failure, but if that's the case, you miss the point. You want to say "this guy is like that guy..they all make me upset because they don't score 30 points a week every week, so as a result, my teams can't compete without that occurring so I therefore lump them in the garbage and get rid of them and talk bad about them." Well, what 24 year old player in this league IS automatic? Who would you be happy with, without question? Are you the same person who writes off Reggie wayne or Steve Smith or Cj Spiller? Is it too much to bear that Calvin Johnson is only a top 20 WR this year? What I'm saying (to everyone, not just the reply), is when people make a thread and make a suggestion, and take the time to back it up with some discussion, and then that player demonstrates what the OP was saying, don't you think you can do better than to make a point to come in and litter the thread with trash after a guy clearly gets hurt and has a downturn?
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Concept Coop
Footballguy
It was sarcastic.This is classic...If you can't trust your WR1 when he's a little dinged or does not have an ideal match up is he really a WR1?Yes.so he's a wr1 that you can't play when he is dinged up or when he has tough matchups?When he is hurt, I would sit him. He is a matchup play, as a WR1/2, however. The Dallas passing offense is really good, when it's forced to be. Any matchups that could potentially force Dallas to play catchup - I'd play him.I need a reason not to drop him today. My team is hurting and I can't keep starting him based on potential.
When does production out-trump potential in these situations?
When I play him, he nets less than 6 points. When I bench him, his "potential" shines as he gets 12+ points.
BustedKnuckles
Footballguy
Dez Bryant has missed practice time and been listed as questionable twice this year -- Weeks 7 at Carolina and 9 at Atlanta. In those games, he's amassed seven combined targets for three catches and 29 yards. In his healthy six games, Bryant is averaging ten targets, 6.5 receptions, and 79 yards. Bryant was largely a decoy against the Falcons last week, running clear-out routes as Miles Austin and Jason Witten racked up seven catches apiece. Listed as probable for Week 10 after a full practice week, look for Dez to be the go-to guy in a game plan that attacks struggling RCB Nnamdi Asomugha. Asomugha has zero recovery speed and can't tackle -- big problems against Dez's explosiveness and physicality
per rotoworld matchups
per rotoworld matchups
BruceAlmighty
Footballguy
In almost 3 years as a pro, this first rd pick with an "elite skill set" has 3 100 yd receiving games. Two came this year so maybe there's hope, but I seriously doubt it.
Simon Shepherd
Footballguy
I always think with receivers, there is a very very slim category of elite receivers who a defense just can't take away. Off the top of my head, this year that's been Megatron, Harvin, AJ Green. Pretty much every week WR1s. Marshall has been close but has had a couple of down weeks. Some you can depend on every week - not necessarily for a touchdown, but for a very good floor. This is the Welker/Decker category. Every week WR2s at least.
Then there's another category of guys who you have to be careful with, because essentially you're betting week to week on the coverage of the defense and the offensive game plan. You'd have to have Julio Jones, Mike Wallace, Hakeem Nicks, maybe even Victor Cruz in here - and of course Dez. In my opinion, taking risks on these guys and being able to manage them week to week separates an average fantasy owner from a great one. You need to know who shut down corners are, you need to know how teams manage their injury reports, and you need the guts to make a ballsy decision. If you can do this, you can get great value in drafts. Because you can draft Dez say 4 rounds later than Megatron, and perhaps you play him 12 times over 16 games, and you get 8 hits, and 4 dumps.
As a Dez owner, I've failed so far this year though to sit him at all, but now I do think I have the info I need to manage the situation. I've traded to give myself as many WR2 candidates as I can, and now in a very competitive 12 team league can start 3-4 (most likely 3) out of Dez, Stevie J, Denarius Moore, DHB and Mike Williams. I will not hesitate to bench him this week, for instance, if something flares up. And I'm going to try to buy myself some time to watch some Joe Haden film later in the week. I know AJ Green can torch him, but he's a different player from Dez. I will have no issues whatsover playing the two Raiders over him this week if I don't like the matchup.
Then there's another category of guys who you have to be careful with, because essentially you're betting week to week on the coverage of the defense and the offensive game plan. You'd have to have Julio Jones, Mike Wallace, Hakeem Nicks, maybe even Victor Cruz in here - and of course Dez. In my opinion, taking risks on these guys and being able to manage them week to week separates an average fantasy owner from a great one. You need to know who shut down corners are, you need to know how teams manage their injury reports, and you need the guts to make a ballsy decision. If you can do this, you can get great value in drafts. Because you can draft Dez say 4 rounds later than Megatron, and perhaps you play him 12 times over 16 games, and you get 8 hits, and 4 dumps.
As a Dez owner, I've failed so far this year though to sit him at all, but now I do think I have the info I need to manage the situation. I've traded to give myself as many WR2 candidates as I can, and now in a very competitive 12 team league can start 3-4 (most likely 3) out of Dez, Stevie J, Denarius Moore, DHB and Mike Williams. I will not hesitate to bench him this week, for instance, if something flares up. And I'm going to try to buy myself some time to watch some Joe Haden film later in the week. I know AJ Green can torch him, but he's a different player from Dez. I will have no issues whatsover playing the two Raiders over him this week if I don't like the matchup.
jurb26
Footballguy
Will Haden shadow him all game? I know he does vs. AJ Green, but I'm not sure Clev has asked him to do that vs. any other WR. I could be wrong about that though.
Shutout
Footballguy
to me, its becoming very obvious that things are starting to become consistent enough to justify this thread
early in this thread, the majority of the naysayers arguments were based on saying dez was being a knucklehead,
but the past few weeks Dez has quietly just simply showed up to work and produced.
early in this thread, the majority of the naysayers arguments were based on saying dez was being a knucklehead,
but the past few weeks Dez has quietly just simply showed up to work and produced.
MogusMaximus
Footballguy
edit: oh nevermind
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Ridgelake
Footballguy
I think it was earlier in this thread when I talked about Dez growing up. Having a much further way to grow based on his background/upbrining. He's come a long way. Still has a long way to go. But you see the improvement, the development. Everything is saying that he's working hard and trying to learn to do things the right way. Trying to be responsible.I read a comment recently that compared Dez to a teenager. That is spot on in my view. He's matured enough to realize how has a lot of maturing still to go and is trying hard to be a grown up. Its coming. I would not bet against him at this point.'Shutout said:
Surprised this thread has not been bumped yet. The OP was spot on and deserves credit for pounding the table on trading FOR dez at a time when the entire football world had him labeled as a bust who will never reach his full potential. This kid is absolutely tearing up the league rt now and very likely helped scores of giddy fantasy owners with that final push to get into the playoffs.
For this of us that held into him or traded for dez enjoy owning Calvin - lite into the playoffs!
What a beast
For this of us that held into him or traded for dez enjoy owning Calvin - lite into the playoffs!
What a beast
Still glad?
These are great. Time to eat some crow boys!
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