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Calling out help from Sharks (1 Viewer)

Here's another vote for Chris Brown.

If he can stay healthy (and I know that's a big if) he could be an elite talent. Check his numbers for the games he did play. He can dominate.

Lamont Jordan's nice, but he's no elite back by any stretch of the imagination.

BTW, it's 50-50% that Brown will play the WHOLE 16 games, not 10. I think the odds on Brown playing 10 games are pretty good.

And another BTW... both the Raiders and Titans suck out loud, so they'll both be playing from behind alot this year.
Lets at least be fair to Jordan here. There is no way to know if he is capable of elite status or not seeing that he had to backup an elite and HoFer in NY. I vote Jordan. Oaklands O stands to be too good for the starting RB not to get a nice amount of points IMO. I can't say the same about Brown and Tenn.

 
I predict that Jordan will put up better numbers, and I don't even think it will be close.  Brown is an explosive back, but they are a pass first team that will be behind a lot, and he has shown that his upright running style leads him to nagging injuries.  Lamont is bigger, faster, and more instintive while running, and is also a much better receiver.  He will be playing in a better offense, and the Raiders will be ahead a lot more often than the Titans.  Norv Turner has a talent for finding runners that fit well into his system, and I think Jordan will be a top 10 back this season.
Says the LaMont Jordan owner... how about a little objectivity, homer? :rotflmao:Titans are a pass-first team huh? Eddie George must have sucked then.

Jordan is faster and more instinctive than Brown? And you know this from watching him play so much these past 4 years?

The Raiders have a better offense than the Titans? The Raiders (did) have the #7, the Titans #6. Boy, you're right, the Raiders are far better...

Lamont Jordan will be a Top 10 back? Tell that to (in no given order)...

Tomlinson

Alexander

Holmes

McGahee

A. Green

Portis

D. Davis

J. Lewis

K. Jones

Holmes

Dillon

J. Jones

McAllister

Bell

C. Brown

R. Johnson

Henry (should he get traded)

Barber

S. Jackson

Westbrook

Martin

Taylor

:rolleyes:
This is redicuoous. Eddie played on FAR different and BETTER Tenn temas than this one will be. The Raiders O has gone in one direction this offseason while the Titans has gone another. I'll let you guess which should have gotten better vs. worse. :rotflmao: ;)
 
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Lamont is bigger, faster, and more instintive while running, and is also a much better receiver.
???Bigger:Jordan - 5'10" 230Brown 6'3" 220Faster? I'd like some proof of that -= Chris Brown regularly - in college and the pros - burst away from tacklers and into the end zone.More instinctive? Well, that is subjective, but Brown forced his team to ditch their former all-pro RB after one year while Jordan didn't even touch CuMar's numbers after sitting behind him for five years.
 
Nobody can say definitively how good the Titans' offense will be because nobody knows what kind of impact Chow will have as an NFL OC. He could be anything between Martz and Spurrier. I would error on the side of Martz, but that's based solely on opinion and my Pac-10 homerism.I will say this though, considering McNair was the 2003 MVP and considering Chow built one of the most explosive college offenses I'd say the upside is pretty high.

 
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Sooooo...

The question is who will score more fantasy points in 2005 season Jordan or Brown.

Everyone who says Brown, qualifies it with "if he can stay healthy" or "assuming they play the same number of games". I would say that is exactly why Jordan is the choice here. We can not assume that Brown will be in every game (or at least he won't finish every game). Jordan is the less likely injury risk IMO.

Therefore: Jordan > Brown.

Simple really.
Not really that simple - if LJordan plays 16 games and averages only 10-12 pts/game, I'll take a couple games midseason off from CBrown if he's averaging 20/game.Simple really.
So have you done projections for both? 10-12 points each week? That would be about 50 yards rushing and 1 TD or maybe 70 rushing and 30 receiving? You don't see too many 100 yard rushing games in his future for this year (or maybe you don't think he'll get any TD's)? Please explain.BTW- LOL at the snapback "Simple really." :lol:

 
Jordan > Chrissy
This doesn't seem right.........something's missing.........oh, wait a minute........yep, here it is...... :popcorn:
:yes: and maybe a coupla :banned:
Should I allow him to go back on his word or should the bet be finalized.

Also, let me know who you think will get more fantasy points next year if you want. L.Jordan vs C. Brown. 2 guys with potential top 10 ability in ff next year.
Love these two questions as a package deal! With some minor editing of my own, I get:"Should the bet be finalized? (will L.Jordan get more fantasy points?!)" :lol:

;)

 
Lamont is bigger, faster, and more instintive while running, and is also a much better receiver.
???Bigger:

Jordan - 5'10" 230

Brown 6'3" 220

Faster? I'd like some proof of that -= Chris Brown regularly - in college and the pros - burst away from tacklers and into the end zone.

More instinctive? Well, that is subjective, but Brown forced his team to ditch their former all-pro RB after one year while Jordan didn't even touch CuMar's numbers after sitting behind him for five years.
You're absolutely right Marc. Chris Brown forced Eddie George off of the only team he ever played for (Oilers even!) in his first training camp after missing his rookie season, while a healthy Lamont Jordan couldn't beat out Curtis Martin in 4 years.But Jordan is the one with the potential to be Top 10.... :rolleyes: What has Lamont Jordan ever done to get such man-love from some of you guys... the fact that you own them? I own Kevan Barlow, and while I think he'll bounce back a little, I would never claim Top 10. Pass whatever it is you're smoking to the left!

Also: Chris Brown is injury-prone because of his upright style. How does that give you turf-toe? I'm so tired of the "upright" running style argument. It's hogwash.

 
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Lamont is bigger, faster, and more instintive while running, and is also a much better receiver.
???Bigger:

Jordan - 5'10" 230

Brown 6'3" 220

Faster? I'd like some proof of that -= Chris Brown regularly - in college and the pros - burst away from tacklers and into the end zone.

More instinctive? Well, that is subjective, but Brown forced his team to ditch their former all-pro RB after one year while Jordan didn't even touch CuMar's numbers after sitting behind him for five years.
You're absolutely right Marc. Chris Brown forced Eddie George off of the only team he ever played for (Oilers even!) in his first training camp after missing his rookie season, while a healthy Lamont Jordan couldn't beat out Curtis Martin in 4 years.But Jordan is the one with the potential to be Top 10.... :rolleyes: What has Lamont Jordan ever done to get such man-love from some of you guys... the fact that you own them? I own Kevan Barlow, and while I think he'll bounce back a little, I would never claim Top 10. Pass whatever it is you're smoking to the left!

Also: Chris Brown is injury-prone because of his upright style. How does that give you turf-toe? I'm so tired of the "upright" running style argument. It's hogwash.
Your still not looking at the whole picture. Eddie was not playing effective football. Martin has been. Why whould NY simple move an elite and HoF RB for the purpose of moving him? Jordan hadn't had a fraction of the chance to perform in NY that Brown has had in Tenn. This may or may not be due to talent level... we can't be sure yet. One thing is for certain though, Martin has been a FAR better and more effective RB the past few years than Eddie has.
 
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More instinctive? Well, that is subjective, but Brown forced his team to ditch their former all-pro RB after one year while Jordan didn't even touch CuMar's numbers after sitting behind him for five years.
To be fair Lamont and Brown's situation is different in the fact that Eddie had clearly been in decline while Curtis obviously has not.I have no idea how Lamont will do but I will probably draft him before Brown because 1) I think they will have similar stats (somewhere in the 13-16 range) and 2) I don't want the headache of having my #1 or #2 RB listed as questionable 11 out of 16 games. Any Chris Brown owners want to chime in on how much fun that was last season?Edit: Nice work Jurb :thumbup:
 
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Also: Chris Brown is injury-prone because of his upright style. How does that give you turf-toe? I'm so tired of the "upright" running style argument. It's hogwash.
I don't care if he does a chicken dance so long as he is effective. The problem is that he had the turf toe and the shoulder and two offseason surgeries and the hamstring that cost him his rookie season and the sternum injury his senior year and the ankle that cost him four games his junior year.Chris Brown = Fragile Fred Taylor
 
More instinctive? Well, that is subjective, but Brown forced his team to ditch their former all-pro RB after one year while Jordan didn't even touch CuMar's numbers after sitting behind him for five years.
To be fair Lamont and Brown's situation is different in the fact that Eddie had clearly been in decline while Curtis obviously has not.I have no idea how Lamont will do but I will probably draft him before Brown because 1) I think they will have similar stats (somewhere in the 13-16 range) and 2) I don't want the headache of having my #1 or #2 RB listed as questionable 11 out of 16 games. Any Chris Brown owners want to chime in on how much fun that was last season?

Edit: Nice work Jurb :thumbup:
True, George was in decline, but they gave Brown that job without him having played a full, meaningful game. He carried what, 5 times in the Patriots-Titans playoff game? Titans coaches apparently saw enough.As far as the "questionable every week" issue, if you had Brown as your #1 or #2 RB, sure that pissed you off. If he was your #3 or #4, no big whoop.

Personally, I'd rather have the "elite-potential, albeit unpredictable" RB over the "hasn't proven squat yet" RB any day. There's two fantasy philosophies there. I'd rather go for the home run than play it safe.

But hey, to each his own.

 
Also: Chris Brown is injury-prone because of his upright style. How does that give you turf-toe? I'm so tired of the "upright" running style argument. It's hogwash.
I don't care if he does a chicken dance so long as he is effective. The problem is that he had the turf toe and the shoulder and two offseason surgeries and the hamstring that cost him his rookie season and the sternum injury his senior year and the ankle that cost him four games his junior year.Chris Brown = Fragile Fred Taylor
Both better than Lamont Jordan.Lamont Jordan, meet Trung Canidate.

 
I predict that Jordan will put up better numbers, and I don't even think it will be close.  Brown is an explosive back, but they are a pass first team that will be behind a lot, and he has shown that his upright running style leads him to nagging injuries.  Lamont is bigger, faster, and more instintive while running, and is also a much better receiver.  He will be playing in a better offense, and the Raiders will be ahead a lot more often than the Titans.  Norv Turner has a talent for finding runners that fit well into his system, and I think Jordan will be a top 10 back this season.
Says the LaMont Jordan owner... how about a little objectivity, homer? :rotflmao:Titans are a pass-first team huh? Eddie George must have sucked then.

Jordan is faster and more instinctive than Brown? And you know this from watching him play so much these past 4 years?

The Raiders have a better offense than the Titans? The Raiders (did) have the #7, the Titans #6. Boy, you're right, the Raiders are far better...

Lamont Jordan will be a Top 10 back? Tell that to (in no given order)...

Tomlinson

Alexander

Holmes

McGahee

A. Green

Portis

D. Davis

J. Lewis

K. Jones

Holmes

Dillon

J. Jones

McAllister

Bell

C. Brown

R. Johnson

Henry (should he get traded)

Barber

S. Jackson

Westbrook

Martin

Taylor

:rolleyes:
Oh Ok good argument..... Your argument holds no validation what so ever; I can list 20 RB's and say the exact same thing. Other then a few RB's it is difficult predicting who will finish top 10 as was the case last year with R. Johnson, D. Davis, and W. McGahee all finishing top 10 in my league. You would have also had a hard time predicting T. Barber to finish top 10 again last season.

My point is it is very difficult predicting the top 10. So it is not as highly unlikely as many of you think that a RB going into a system with N. Turner (who has been known to have some good RB's) coupled with the best WR in the game in R. Moss has the makings of a top 10 RB in FF. Is this really as far fetched as some people make it out to be??? If he is not top 10 next season as long as he is not hurt he will be very close to that list IMO.

C. Brown may finish top 10 next season as well I am hoping he does not as I don't own him and have a bet against him but I could see how he could finish top 10 if he remains healthy. There is a very high number of RB's next season that could finish top 10, so, listing 20 good RB's means nothing to me. I know how many good RB's there is, I don't need someone listing them out for me to try and tell me something. I would also do my best to get the best value out of L. Jordan in a redraft league so the later I could get him the better but I stand by my theory that his chance of finishing top 10 are not as bad as some may think.

 
True, George was in decline, but they gave Brown that job without him having played a full, meaningful game. He carried what, 5 times in the Patriots-Titans playoff game? Titans coaches apparently saw enough.
My point exactly.The Jets didn't even make a half-assed effort to keep Jordon behind CuMar, who, even if he didn't decline, had injury problems two and three years ago - and won't be around for another five years.If Jordon was such a high flight talent, it seems to me the Jets would have at least lip-serviced trying to keep him.On the flip side, while their situations were remarkabley different of course, Brown made a solid vet like Eddie completely expendable - even as a backup - the Titans, as I recall, threw numbers at Eddie they knew he wouldn't take.
 
I'll go with the high powered Norv offence. JORDAN
Beef - the T-Bone in your new avatar looks REALLY tasty - gimmee a grill and that steak and I'll be a happy man.
 
Jordan hadn't had a fraction of the chance to perform in NY that Brown has had in Tenn.
????Many years behind CuMar in practice (Jordan) versus one year as a rookie (Brown).Brown had more opportunities?
 
So have you done projections for both? 10-12 points each week? That would be about 50 yards rushing and 1 TD or maybe 70 rushing and 30 receiving? You don't see too many 100 yard rushing games in his future for this year (or maybe you don't think he'll get any TD's)? Please explain.

BTW- LOL at the snapback "Simple really." :lol:
Sounds about right - on AVERAGE!! Jordan will have games where he gets no more than 40 yards rushing, and he'll have games where he gets over 100 yards rushing, but over the year, yeah, I think he averages in the 10-12 FF points and RB 22/23 or lower range.I have not done my projections for 2005 yet, but at this point, that is where I see him (subject to radical changes, of course, as training camp actually opens).

He certainly won't have 16 rushing TDs, and he will certainly have days where he goes over 50 yards rushing, but I figure only about 2 or 3 100+ yard rushing days, and say 8 rushing TDs. Should average out to about 10-12 FF points/game.

 
Jordan hadn't had a fraction of the chance to perform in NY that Brown has had in Tenn. 
????Many years behind CuMar in practice (Jordan) versus one year as a rookie (Brown).

Brown had more opportunities?
You can't be serious. :yucky:
Why not? Jordon had a LOT more time - and a BUTTLOAD more game time through the 2003 season - than Brown did. Brown was a rook with very little opp as of the end of the 2003 season, which was essentially when the team ditched Eddie.
 
True, George was in decline, but they gave Brown that job without him having played a full, meaningful game. He carried what, 5 times in the Patriots-Titans playoff game? Titans coaches apparently saw enough.
My point exactly.The Jets didn't even make a half-assed effort to keep Jordon behind CuMar, who, even if he didn't decline, had injury problems two and three years ago - and won't be around for another five years.

If Jordon was such a high flight talent, it seems to me the Jets would have at least lip-serviced trying to keep him.

On the flip side, while their situations were remarkabley different of course, Brown made a solid vet like Eddie completely expendable - even as a backup - the Titans, as I recall, threw numbers at Eddie they knew he wouldn't take.
The two situations are not even remotely close. C. Martin has remained at a high level and still does to this day. If C. Martin began to fall off as was the case with E. George then you could compare the 2 situations. The Jets had drafted Jordan as the replacement and still would have liked for him to be the replacement but Martin did not fall off and the Jets ran out of time. Jordan has worked his way into a starting roll and will get his chance this year to start. I don't think one guy is better then the other because he got a chance to start sooner, sometimes that is the case but not in this given situation. That is all circumstantial stuff that can many times can not be controlled. Also, some players can jump right in and be quality starters but other times it may take a couple of years. Saying one guy is more talented based on only on circumstnace is not valid enough. Especially when you are a player playing behind a hall of fame RB. That is just not fair.

 
Jordan hadn't had a fraction of the chance to perform in NY that Brown has had in Tenn. 
????Many years behind CuMar in practice (Jordan) versus one year as a rookie (Brown).

Brown had more opportunities?
You can't be serious. :yucky:
Why not? Jordon had a LOT more time - and a BUTTLOAD more game time through the 2003 season - than Brown did. Brown was a rook with very little opp as of the end of the 2003 season, which was essentially when the team ditched Eddie.
The team ditched Eddie and gave Brown a shot PRIMARILY due to Eddie's inability to play effectively. Martin did not have this problem. Most times in the NFL, a window of opportunity has to be OPENED before a player can jump through it. Eddie opened a window, Martin kept his shut! HUGE difference here. Oh and if you think practice time relates that well with real game time, your fooling yourself. These guys don't even wear full pads 90% of the time in practice! This relation is completley flaVVed.
 
Jordan hadn't had a fraction of the chance to perform in NY that Brown has had in Tenn. 
????Many years behind CuMar in practice (Jordan) versus one year as a rookie (Brown).

Brown had more opportunities?
You can't be serious. :yucky:
Why not? Jordon had a LOT more time - and a BUTTLOAD more game time through the 2003 season - than Brown did. Brown was a rook with very little opp as of the end of the 2003 season, which was essentially when the team ditched Eddie.
The team ditched Eddie and gave Brown a shot PRIMARILY due to Eddie's inability to play effectively. Martin did not have this problem. Most times in the NFL, a window of opportunity has to be OPENED before a player can jump through it. Eddie opened a window, Martin kept his shut! HUGE difference here. Oh and if you think practice time relates that well with real game time, your fooling yourself. These guys don't even wear full pads 90% of the time in practice! This relation is completley flaVVed.
????You said Brpown had more time than Jordon to prove his worth - that is simply erroneous.

 
Yudkin, this may be for you.

One stat I am enamoured with for the Raiders is the fact that they were the LAST ranked team in rushing last year. I don't care what RBs you have playing, that is plain brutal. With that being said, I am curious to see what kind of jumps some of the worst rushing teams in one year have made to the next year, regardless of player changes and what not.

I understand you don't need a great rushing team to have a good fantasy RB, but it certainly helps.

Is it plausible to see a major jump in team rushing for the Raiders this year?

What kind of odds from using previous years does the worst ranked rushing team somehow jump to the middle of the pack next year? In this case, it would mean 500-600 yards more rushing for the Raiders for the season.

I do not have time right now as I have to go back to work, but I am going to look into this and get back, I am curious as to how much of a jump we can actually expect out of the Raiders in terms of team rushing.
I had already posted this before, but since you asked . . .
As others have mentioned, the Raiders ranked dead last in rushing yards last year. As a comparison ONLY, here are the fantasy rankings of the #1 RBs on each team the year AFTER the team finished last in rushing.

2004: Raiders (1,295) : Lamnot Jordan (?)

2003: Lions (1,338): Kevin Jones (21)

2002: Bears (1,344): Anthony Thomas (24)

2001: Browns (1,351): William Green (27)

2000: Chargers (1,062): LaDainian Tomlinson (7)

1999: Browns (1,150): Travis Prentice (28)

1998: Saints (1,325): Ricky Williams (27)

1997: Cardinals (1,255): Adrian Murrell (14)

1996: Saints (1,308): Ray Zellars (33)

1995: Jets (1,279):Adrian Murrell (12)

1994: Falcons (1,249): Craig Heyward (14)

1993: Colts (1,288): Marshall Faulk (4)

1992: Colts (1,102): Roosevelt Potts (38)

1991: Colts (1,169): Anthony Johnson (19)

1990: Browns (1,220): Kevin Mack (10) AND Leroy Hoard (14)

1989: Falcons (1,155): Mike Rozier (33)

1988: Dolphins (1,205): Samie Smith (27)

1987: Falcons (1,297): John Settle (7)

1986: Patriots (1,378): Tony Collins (22)

1985: Chiefs (1,486): Jeff Smith (43)

1984: Eagles (1,338): Earnest Jackson (21)

1983: Chiefs (1,254): Herman Heard (30)

1982: 49ers (740): Roger Craig (16)

1981: Vikings (1,512): Ted Brown (26)

1980: Saints (1,362): George Rogers (4)

1979: Bills (1,621): Joe Cribbs (3)

So in the past 25 years, there were 6 times that there was a Top 10 RB the year after.
 
Jordan hadn't had a fraction of the chance to perform in NY that Brown has had in Tenn. 
????Many years behind CuMar in practice (Jordan) versus one year as a rookie (Brown).

Brown had more opportunities?
You can't be serious. :yucky:
Why not? Jordon had a LOT more time - and a BUTTLOAD more game time through the 2003 season - than Brown did. Brown was a rook with very little opp as of the end of the 2003 season, which was essentially when the team ditched Eddie.
The team ditched Eddie and gave Brown a shot PRIMARILY due to Eddie's inability to play effectively. Martin did not have this problem. Most times in the NFL, a window of opportunity has to be OPENED before a player can jump through it. Eddie opened a window, Martin kept his shut! HUGE difference here. Oh and if you think practice time relates that well with real game time, your fooling yourself. These guys don't even wear full pads 90% of the time in practice! This relation is completley flaVVed.
????You said Brpown had more time than Jordon to prove his worth - that is simply erroneous.
It is not erroneous at all. Brown was named starter last year because of E. George's inablility to no longer perform. C. Brown was given a chance to start due to E. George's inability, therefore, Brown was alloted more time to prove his worth as a starting NFL player as opposed to the opportunity of what being a back up gives you. Tenn had nothing to lose anyomore. They figured any starting RB in the NFL can muster out the 3.25 ypc average that George had done in his last 3 years as the starter in Tenn. If Martin was running like George, than Jordan, like Brown, would have had his chance. Now that he has his chance we can compare the 2 RB's as starting NFL RB's as opposed to basing only on previous circumstances by saying Brown is more talented because he started sooner in his career and will get more FF points next season.
 
Now that he has his chance we can compare the 2 RB's as starting NFL RB's as opposed to basing only on previous circumstances by saying Brown is more talented because he started sooner in his career and will get more FF points next season.
That, I agree with - but I never said Brown was more talented simply b/c he started sooner. I strongly disagree that Jordon has not had time to show his talent - he had much more in-game and non-in-game time than Brown has had.Recall that Martin was VERY hurt a few years ago - maybe 2002? - and ended up splitting a lot of time with Jordan. Lamont has had a TON of time to show his talent in gametime situations.

Heck, he had a 100 yard game last year against Miami. I think we have seen plenty of Jordon to judge his talent.

 
Now that he has his chance we can compare the 2 RB's as starting NFL RB's as opposed to basing only on previous circumstances by saying Brown is more talented because he started sooner in his career and will get more FF points next season.
That, I agree with - but I never said Brown was more talented simply b/c he started sooner. I strongly disagree that Jordon has not had time to show his talent - he had much more in-game and non-in-game time than Brown has had.Recall that Martin was VERY hurt a few years ago - maybe 2002? - and ended up splitting a lot of time with Jordan. Lamont has had a TON of time to show his talent in gametime situations.

Heck, he had a 100 yard game last year against Miami. I think we have seen plenty of Jordon to judge his talent.
I agree that L. Jordan has had a chance to prove his talent but he has not had the window of opportunity to start like C. Brown has had. In fact, judging by his contract and being named Oakland's starter I think L.Jordan has done more then enough to prove his talent and that he deserves a chance to start. If L. Jordan wasn't under contract with the Jets he may have even been a starter sooner on a different team. The Jets still even after Jordan had become a free agent wanted him back but they did not have the money. It is not as if they did not know he was starting material with lots of talent its just they had C. Martin still producing as their starter. In addition, C. Martin had said that Jordan should be a starting RB in the NFL and will get his chance.What you have mentioned or someone had mentioned in a previous post is L. Jordan had time to prove his worth and dethrone C. Martin which is not true. Especially in comparison to Brown's situation with the Titans and E. George.

 
Yudkin, this may be for you.

One stat I am enamoured with for the Raiders is the fact that they were the LAST ranked team in rushing last year. I don't care what RBs you have playing, that is plain brutal. With that being said, I am curious to see what kind of jumps some of the worst rushing teams in one year have made to the next year, regardless of player changes and what not.

I understand you don't need a great rushing team to have a good fantasy RB, but it certainly helps.

Is it plausible to see a major jump in team rushing for the Raiders this year?

What kind of odds from using previous years does the worst ranked rushing team somehow jump to the middle of the pack next year? In this case, it would mean 500-600 yards more rushing for the Raiders for the season.

I do not have time right now as I have to go back to work, but I am going to look into this and get back, I am curious as to how much of a jump we can actually expect out of the Raiders in terms of team rushing.
I had already posted this before, but since you asked . . .
As others have mentioned, the Raiders ranked dead last in rushing yards last year. As a comparison ONLY, here are the fantasy rankings of the #1 RBs on each team the year AFTER the team finished last in rushing.

2004: Raiders (1,295) : Lamnot Jordan (?)

2003: Lions (1,338): Kevin Jones (21)

2002: Bears (1,344): Anthony Thomas (24)

2001: Browns (1,351): William Green (27)

2000: Chargers (1,062): LaDainian Tomlinson (7)

1999: Browns (1,150): Travis Prentice (28)

1998: Saints (1,325): Ricky Williams (27)

1997: Cardinals (1,255): Adrian Murrell (14)

1996: Saints (1,308): Ray Zellars (33)

1995: Jets (1,279):Adrian Murrell (12)

1994: Falcons (1,249): Craig Heyward (14)

1993: Colts (1,288): Marshall Faulk (4)

1992: Colts (1,102): Roosevelt Potts (38)

1991: Colts (1,169): Anthony Johnson (19)

1990: Browns (1,220): Kevin Mack (10) AND Leroy Hoard (14)

1989: Falcons (1,155): Mike Rozier (33)

1988: Dolphins (1,205): Samie Smith (27)

1987: Falcons (1,297): John Settle (7)

1986: Patriots (1,378): Tony Collins (22)

1985: Chiefs (1,486): Jeff Smith (43)

1984: Eagles (1,338): Earnest Jackson (21)

1983: Chiefs (1,254): Herman Heard (30)

1982: 49ers (740): Roger Craig (16)

1981: Vikings (1,512): Ted Brown (26)

1980: Saints (1,362): George Rogers (4)

1979: Bills (1,621): Joe Cribbs (3)

So in the past 25 years, there were 6 times that there was a Top 10 RB the year after.
Average of 20th ranked RB. Thank you.
 
All I have to say is Randy Moss.No way teams can stack the line. Oh yah... they have Jerry Porter, Ronald Curry, and 3 TEs that can catch.Sorry just no way I see Jordan finishing near 20. I think he will be in the Top 12, making him a starter.

 
I'm in a 1/2 point per reception league. It wasn't that long ago that Charlie Garner was a top 5 back in our scoring system.Barring injury, I believe he's easily a top 10 back in our scoring system.

 
All I have to say is Randy Moss.

No way teams can stack the line. Oh yah... they have Jerry Porter, Ronald Curry, and 3 TEs that can catch.

Sorry just no way I see Jordan finishing near 20. I think he will be in the Top 12, making him a starter.
and D. Gabriel. Not a bad 4th WR!
 
All I have to say is Randy Moss.

No way teams can stack the line. Oh yah... they have Jerry Porter, Ronald Curry, and 3 TEs that can catch.

Sorry just no way I see Jordan finishing near 20. I think he will be in the Top 12, making him a starter.
and D. Gabriel. Not a bad 4th WR!
And with ALL that passing power, how much will Lamont touch the ball?
 
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What spoke volumes to me about how the Jets felt about Lamont Jordan was two years ago when CuMar had a high ankle sprain nearly the entire year, his numbers were horrible, and he was basically running on one leg. Lamont had been on the team for a couple years and still couldn't earn any playing time. That situation is the perfect time for a talented RB to step it up and be so good that you can't keep him off the field ala. Larry Johnson last year. Larry Johnson was not a coach favorite by any stretch but he had too much talent and played too well to keep him on the bench and he played himself into the starting role.

 
I'm in a 1/2 point per reception league. It wasn't that long ago that Charlie Garner was a top 5 back in our scoring system.

Barring injury, I believe he's easily a top 10 back in our scoring system.
Not having seen Lamont Jordan play much, I must ask: does he have the receiving skills Garner does?
 
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I'm in a 1/2 point per reception league. It wasn't that long ago that Charlie Garner was a top 5 back in our scoring system.

Barring injury, I believe he's easily a top 10 back in our scoring system.
Not having seen Lamont Jordan play much, I must ask: does he have the receiving skills Garner does?
NO
 
I'm in a 1/2 point per reception league. It wasn't that long ago that Charlie Garner was a top 5 back in our scoring system.

Barring injury, I believe he's easily a top 10 back in our scoring system.
Not having seen Lamont Jordan play much, I must ask: does he have the receiving skills Garner does?
NO
Then how is he going to flourish like Garner?Didn't the system change with the new coaching anyway?

Just curious, how is Garner pertinent to Jordan's situation aside from wearing the same helmet?

 
I'm in a 1/2 point per reception league. It wasn't that long ago that Charlie Garner was a top 5 back in our scoring system.

Barring injury, I believe he's easily a top 10 back in our scoring system.
Not having seen Lamont Jordan play much, I must ask: does he have the receiving skills Garner does?
NO
Then how is he going to flourish like Garner?Didn't the system change with the new coaching anyway?

Just curious, how is Garner pertinent to Jordan's situation aside from wearing the same helmet?
Garner is pretty much the opposite style rb compared to Jordan and any comparisons are off base IMO. Garner is a 3rd down type back whereas Lamont is a 1st/2nd down back who will probably sit in most 3rd down situations (like Jamal Lewis). They have a different system, coach, wr's, qb, etc. I think the only parallel as you mentioned is that they both wore a Raiders helmet and both play RB.
 
What spoke volumes to me about how the Jets felt about Lamont Jordan was two years ago when CuMar had a high ankle sprain nearly the entire year, his numbers were horrible, and he was basically running on one leg.  Lamont had been on the team for a couple years and still couldn't earn any playing time.  That situation is the perfect time for a talented RB to step it up and be so good that you can't keep him off the field ala. Larry Johnson last year.  Larry Johnson was not a coach favorite by any stretch but he had too much talent and played too well to keep him on the bench and he played himself into the starting role.
2001 New York Jets 16g 1513yds 10TDs2002 New York Jets 16g 1094yds 5TDs

2003 New York Jets 16g 1308yds 2TDs

2002 and 2003... that right there my friends, was Lamont Jordan's window of opportunity. For those who have been saying Curtis Martin was never in decline like Eddie George was, you're a short-sighted fool. They drafted Jordan to take the job away from Martin and he couldn't do it!!!! They drafted Brown to take the job away from George, and in a handful of games, he did!!!

Prior to last season, Curtis Martin was considered "in decline"! What he had last year in 2004 is what we call a "bounce-back" year! Let's not be so friggin' short-sighted to forget that Jets fans (and LAMONT JORDAN OWNERS) were screaming for Jordan to play. Apparently the coaches thought otherwise. And the NYJ coaches also felt strongly enough about Jordan's skills as to let him walk... but he's a Top 10 talent! :rotflmao:

This is what kills me about fantasy football... the perception that fantasy footballers know more about a player than his NFL coaches do.

 
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If Chris Brown and Lamont Jordan play the same amount of games, and Jordan outproduces him, I'll leave this site and never return.

 
EDDIE GEORGE:2002 Tennessee Titans 16g 1165yds 12TDs2003 Tennessee Titans 16g 1031yds 5TDsCURTIS MARTIN:2002 New York Jets 16g 1094yds 5TDs2003 New York Jets 16g 1308yds 2TDsSo, George was in SERIOUS :rolleyes: decline, but Martin never was....If it wasn't for Martin's "Comeback Player of the Year"-type season compared to George's backup duty in Dallas last year, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.Fact remains, Chris Brown replaced Eddie George after the numbers George put up in 2003, but Lamont Jordan could not beat out Curtis Martin after the stats Martin put up the same year!!! But I forgot, you know more than NFL coaches do.... :rant: :hot: :wall:

 
:rotflmao: Why don't you try looking at the YPA. Gotta love how that stat doesn't make your list. :rolleyes: LT was playing hurt all last year. Are you telling me that this was the huge window of opportunity for Chatman and Turner as well. Lets be serious here. Teams are not likely to jump ship on quality players who are still productive.

 
An important thing everyone is missing here is the direction the respective teams are going in. The Titans lost there best offensive player in Mason, they have been depleted on defense over the last two years. McNair is coming back and will struggle but for some reason he will get the job because he is McNair and the Titans feel they owe him. Teams will stack the line against Brown, the team will be out of games early and will abandon the run. Plus the guy always seemed like he was injured, what will another season as a starter do for his durability?On the other hand we have Jordan, he IS unproven, but I do think he looked decent this year and at times better than CuMar, maybe it was that CuMar wore the D's down I don't know. However Norv Turner the undisputed Guru of RBs chose Jordan over some big time RBs who were available (Alexander and James for the right price) Travis Henry (a proven producer), plus a draft loaded with RB talent. I am sure Norv knows RB talent more than most in the NFL and certainly anyone on this board so I would not discount Jordan.Further Jordan will never see a loaded box with Moss and Porter on the outside. And there will be plenty of times Moss/Porter get tackled inside the 10 where you will see Turner pound it in so not touching the ball is not a concern. I have seen what Brown has done and honestly I think it was the ceiling fcor him. What Jordan can fdo is a mystery but at the end of the day both will start the season as a #2 FF back, I take my shot at someone who could turn into a stud (Jordan) over someone who will be top 15 at best.Just my 2 cents.Thought?

 
An important thing everyone is missing here is the direction the respective teams are going in.

The Titans lost there best offensive player in Mason, they have been depleted on defense over the last two years. McNair is coming back and will struggle but for some reason he will get the job because he is McNair and the Titans feel they owe him. Teams will stack the line against Brown, the team will be out of games early and will abandon the run. Plus the guy always seemed like he was injured, what will another season as a starter do for his durability?

On the other hand we have Jordan, he IS unproven, but I do think he looked decent this year and at times better than CuMar, maybe it was that CuMar wore the D's down I don't know. However Norv Turner the undisputed Guru of RBs chose Jordan over some big time RBs who were available (Alexander and James for the right price) Travis Henry (a proven producer), plus a draft loaded with RB talent. I am sure Norv knows RB talent more than most in the NFL and certainly anyone on this board so I would not discount Jordan.

Further Jordan will never see a loaded box with Moss and Porter on the outside. And there will be plenty of times Moss/Porter get tackled inside the 10 where you will see Turner pound it in so not touching the ball is not a concern.

I have seen what Brown has done and honestly I think it was the ceiling fcor him. What Jordan can fdo is a mystery but at the end of the day both will start the season as a #2 FF back, I take my shot at someone who could turn into a stud (Jordan) over someone who will be top 15 at best.

Just my 2 cents.

Thought?
Brown's ceiling was top 5 last year until he got hurt. He was one of the most productive backs (if not the most productive) in the league last year through the first 5 weeks: 16-100, 26-152-1, 23-101-1, 15-55, 27-148-2 and don't forget some of those outings were only 1/2 game. So 4 of 5 games he ran for over 100 yards and he doesn't have the ability to be a stud but Jordan does? Another thing I don't get is that everyone thinks that Moss makes RB's great and because Moss is on the team Lamont is assured to be a stud. When was the last time Minn had a top 5-10 back? The Robert Smith days? A lot of people are still expecting Moss to be a goal line option but also think that Jordan will be the goal line option. There is only 1 football and something's gotta give.

 
An important thing everyone is missing here is the direction the respective teams are going in.

The Titans lost there best offensive player in Mason, they have been depleted on defense over the last two years. McNair is coming back and will struggle but for some reason he will get the job because he is McNair and the Titans feel they owe him. Teams will stack the line against Brown, the team will be out of games early and will abandon the run. Plus the guy always seemed like he was injured, what will another season as a starter do for his durability?

On the other hand we have Jordan, he IS unproven, but I do think he looked decent this year and at times better than CuMar, maybe it was that CuMar wore the D's down I don't know. However Norv Turner the undisputed Guru of RBs chose Jordan over some big time RBs who were available (Alexander and James for the right price) Travis Henry (a proven producer), plus a draft loaded with RB talent. I am sure Norv knows RB talent more than most in the NFL and certainly anyone on this board so I would not discount Jordan.

Further Jordan will never see a loaded box with Moss and Porter on the outside. And there will be plenty of times Moss/Porter get tackled inside the 10 where you will see Turner pound it in so not touching the ball is not a concern. 

I have seen what Brown has done and honestly I think it was the ceiling fcor him. What Jordan can fdo is a mystery but at the end of the day both will start the season as a #2 FF back, I take my shot at someone who could turn into a stud (Jordan) over someone who will be top 15 at best.

Just my 2 cents.

Thought?
Brown's ceiling was top 5 last year until he got hurt. He was one of the most productive backs (if not the most productive) in the league last year through the first 5 weeks: 16-100, 26-152-1, 23-101-1, 15-55, 27-148-2 and don't forget some of those outings were only 1/2 game. So 4 of 5 games he ran for over 100 yards and he doesn't have the ability to be a stud but Jordan does? Another thing I don't get is that everyone thinks that Moss makes RB's great and because Moss is on the team Lamont is assured to be a stud. When was the last time Minn had a top 5-10 back? The Robert Smith days? A lot of people are still expecting Moss to be a goal line option but also think that Jordan will be the goal line option. There is only 1 football and something's gotta give.
The only reason Minn hasn't had top 10 or top 5 RBs the last several years is because the can't decide which one to leave on the field and make a primary ball carrier. Its not due to a lack luster running game.
 
Another thing I don't get is that everyone thinks that Moss makes RB's great and because Moss is on the team Lamont is assured to be a stud. When was the last time Minn had a top 5-10 back? The Robert Smith days? A lot of people are still expecting Moss to be a goal line option but also think that Jordan will be the goal line option. There is only 1 football and something's gotta give.
I think Norv has alot to do with this part. Norv has a history of using his backs to the fullest.....cant say that was the case with Linehan
 
However Norv Turner the undisputed Guru of RBs.
This comment is one I must ponder over, and one that requires some digging. Turner gets credit for molding the careers of some top RB, but I had to go back and check to see how much credit he actually was due. There is no question about the performance level of RB on Turner's teams, but I was curious as to how much of the success could really be bestowed on his ability to "pick" a RB.Turner was with the Rams from 1985 - 1990. For those with poor memories, the Rams had Eric Dickerson BEFORE Turner got there, and Dickerson only put up 2105/14 the year BEFORE Turner got the keys to the offense. After Dickerson was traded to the Colts, Charles White took over without missing a beat. The Rams later picked up Greg Bell, who had a couple of good seasons as a Top 15 or so RB in Buffalo but did do much better with the Rams.Turner then went to Dallas from 1991 - 1993 . . . who already had Emmitt Smith BEFORE Turner got there. And we all know how that turned out, so there's no need to rehash that here.Next stop, Washington from 1994 - 2000. One of his first orders of business was to import Terry Allen, a Top 5 -10 RB from Minnesota. The first RB that Turner actually "made" was Stephen Davis--who needed 4 years to get a chance to play.On to San Diego for a year (2001). I don't know how much influence Turner had in the draft, but it was clear the Bolts did not want Michael Vick and they ended up with LT. Clearly an excellent selection--as LT had a great rookie year and flourished after Turner left.On to Miami for 2002 and 2003, acquiring Ricky Williams who had one phenomenal year and another very good year for the Phins (after Ricky was first productive in N.O.). And of course, he went to Oakland last season.I think part of the credit must go to Turner for his system, but I also think he had some good luck in starting out with HOF caliber talent or getting RB that were already proven. (He also had several cases where not so well known RB stepped right in and were productive.)Just for ha-has, here are the stat lines for the most productive RB each year under Turner's offenses.1985: Eric Dickerson 292-1234-12 rushing, 20-126-0 receiving (10th)1986: Eric Dickerson 404-1821-11 rushing, 26-205-0 receiving (1st)1987: Charles White 324-1374-11 rushing, 23-121-0 receiving (1st)1988: Greg Bell 288-1212-16 rushing, 24-124-2 receiving (4th)1989: Greg Bell 272-1137-15 rushing, 19-85-0 receiving (7th)1990: Cleveland Gary 204-808-14 rushing, 30-150-1 receiving (6th)1991: Emmitt Smith 365-1563-12 rushing, 49-258-1 receiving (3rd)1992: Emmitt Smith 373-1713-18 rushing, 59-335-1 receiving (1st)1993: Emmitt Smith 283-1486-9 rushing, 57-414-1 receiving (1st)1994: Ricky Ervins 185-650-3 rushing, 51-293-1 receiving (28th)1995: Terry Allen 338-1309-10 rushing, 31-232-1 receiving (7th)1996: Terry Allen 347-1353-21 rushing, 32-194-0 receiving (1st)1997: Terry Allen 210-724-4 rushing, 20-172-1 receiving (28th)1998: Terry Allen 148-700-2 rushing, 17-128-0 receiving (31st)1999: Stephen Davis 290-1405-17 rushing, 23-111-0 receiving (4th)2000: Stephen Davis 332-1318-11 rushing, 33-313-0 receiving (12th)2001: LaDainian Tomlinson 339-1236-10 rushing, 59-367-0 receiving (7th)2002: Ricky Williams 383-1853-16 rushing, 47-363-1 receiving (2nd)2003: Ricky Williams 392-1372-9 rushing, 50-351-1 receiving (9th)2004: Amos Zereoue 112-425-3 rushing, 39-284-0 receiving (39th)That averages out to 294-1235-14 rushing, 35-231-1 (11th). That average would amount to 236 fantasy points, and using 2004 rankings, that would have ranked as the #8 RB.In 20 years, Turner produced 15 Top 10 seasons including the #1 fantasy RB 5 times (and 4 different RB ranked #1 mind you).So that's the Turner story. the question remains is Jordan in the same class as some of the other RB . . . and you all can decide that one on your own.
 
However Norv Turner the undisputed Guru of RBs.
This comment is one I must ponder over, and one that requires some digging. Turner gets credit for molding the careers of some top RB, but I had to go back and check to see how much credit he actually was due. There is no question about the performance level of RB on Turner's teams, but I was curious as to how much of the success could really be bestowed on his ability to "pick" a RB.Turner was with the Rams from 1985 - 1990. For those with poor memories, the Rams had Eric Dickerson BEFORE Turner got there, and Dickerson only put up 2105/14 the year BEFORE Turner got the keys to the offense. After Dickerson was traded to the Colts, Charles White took over without missing a beat. The Rams later picked up Greg Bell, who had a couple of good seasons as a Top 15 or so RB in Buffalo but did do much better with the Rams.

Turner then went to Dallas from 1991 - 1993 . . . who already had Emmitt Smith BEFORE Turner got there. And we all know how that turned out, so there's no need to rehash that here.

Next stop, Washington from 1994 - 2000. One of his first orders of business was to import Terry Allen, a Top 5 -10 RB from Minnesota. The first RB that Turner actually "made" was Stephen Davis--who needed 4 years to get a chance to play.

On to San Diego for a year (2001). I don't know how much influence Turner had in the draft, but it was clear the Bolts did not want Michael Vick and they ended up with LT. Clearly an excellent selection--as LT had a great rookie year and flourished after Turner left.

On to Miami for 2002 and 2003, acquiring Ricky Williams who had one phenomenal year and another very good year for the Phins (after Ricky was first productive in N.O.). And of course, he went to Oakland last season.

I think part of the credit must go to Turner for his system, but I also think he had some good luck in starting out with HOF caliber talent or getting RB that were already proven. (He also had several cases where not so well known RB stepped right in and were productive.)

Just for ha-has, here are the stat lines for the most productive RB each year under Turner's offenses.

1985: Eric Dickerson 292-1234-12 rushing, 20-126-0 receiving (10th)

1986: Eric Dickerson 404-1821-11 rushing, 26-205-0 receiving (1st)

1987: Charles White 324-1374-11 rushing, 23-121-0 receiving (1st)

1988: Greg Bell 288-1212-16 rushing, 24-124-2 receiving (4th)

1989: Greg Bell 272-1137-15 rushing, 19-85-0 receiving (7th)

1990: Cleveland Gary 204-808-14 rushing, 30-150-1 receiving (6th)

1991: Emmitt Smith 365-1563-12 rushing, 49-258-1 receiving (3rd)

1992: Emmitt Smith 373-1713-18 rushing, 59-335-1 receiving (1st)

1993: Emmitt Smith 283-1486-9 rushing, 57-414-1 receiving (1st)

1994: Ricky Ervins 185-650-3 rushing, 51-293-1 receiving (28th)

1995: Terry Allen 338-1309-10 rushing, 31-232-1 receiving (7th)

1996: Terry Allen 347-1353-21 rushing, 32-194-0 receiving (1st)

1997: Terry Allen 210-724-4 rushing, 20-172-1 receiving (28th)

1998: Terry Allen 148-700-2 rushing, 17-128-0 receiving (31st)

1999: Stephen Davis 290-1405-17 rushing, 23-111-0 receiving (4th)

2000: Stephen Davis 332-1318-11 rushing, 33-313-0 receiving (12th)

2001: LaDainian Tomlinson 339-1236-10 rushing, 59-367-0 receiving (7th)

2002: Ricky Williams 383-1853-16 rushing, 47-363-1 receiving (2nd)

2003: Ricky Williams 392-1372-9 rushing, 50-351-1 receiving (9th)

2004: Amos Zereoue 112-425-3 rushing, 39-284-0 receiving (39th)

That averages out to 294-1235-14 rushing, 35-231-1 (11th). That average would amount to 236 fantasy points, and using 2004 rankings, that would have ranked as the #8 RB.

In 20 years, Turner produced 15 Top 10 seasons including the #1 fantasy RB 5 times (and 4 different RB ranked #1 mind you).

So that's the Turner story. the question remains is Jordan in the same class as some of the other RB . . . and you all can decide that one on your own.
I'm begining to like Jordan even more. Nice work.
 

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