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Lets at least be fair to Jordan here. There is no way to know if he is capable of elite status or not seeing that he had to backup an elite and HoFer in NY. I vote Jordan. Oaklands O stands to be too good for the starting RB not to get a nice amount of points IMO. I can't say the same about Brown and Tenn.
This is redicuoous. Eddie played on FAR different and BETTER Tenn temas than this one will be. The Raiders O has gone in one direction this offseason while the Titans has gone another. I'll let you guess which should have gotten better vs. worse. :rotflmao:Says the LaMont Jordan owner... how about a little objectivity, homer? :rotflmao:Titans are a pass-first team huh? Eddie George must have sucked then.
Jordan is faster and more instinctive than Brown? And you know this from watching him play so much these past 4 years?
The Raiders have a better offense than the Titans? The Raiders (did) have the #7, the Titans #6. Boy, you're right, the Raiders are far better...
Lamont Jordan will be a Top 10 back? Tell that to (in no given order)...
Tomlinson
Alexander
Holmes
McGahee
A. Green
Portis
D. Davis
J. Lewis
K. Jones
Holmes
Dillon
J. Jones
McAllister
Bell
C. Brown
R. Johnson
Henry (should he get traded)
Barber
S. Jackson
Westbrook
Martin
Taylor
???Bigger:Jordan - 5'10" 230Brown 6'3" 220Faster? I'd like some proof of that -= Chris Brown regularly - in college and the pros - burst away from tacklers and into the end zone.More instinctive? Well, that is subjective, but Brown forced his team to ditch their former all-pro RB after one year while Jordan didn't even touch CuMar's numbers after sitting behind him for five years.
Of course it is.
So have you done projections for both? 10-12 points each week? That would be about 50 yards rushing and 1 TD or maybe 70 rushing and 30 receiving? You don't see too many 100 yard rushing games in his future for this year (or maybe you don't think he'll get any TD's)? Please explain.BTW- LOL at the snapback "Simple really."
This doesn't seem right.........something's missing.........oh, wait a minute........yep, here it is......
and maybe a coupla 
Love these two questions as a package deal! With some minor editing of my own, I get:"Should the bet be finalized? (will L.Jordan get more fantasy points?!)"
You're absolutely right Marc. Chris Brown forced Eddie George off of the only team he ever played for (Oilers even!) in his first training camp after missing his rookie season, while a healthy Lamont Jordan couldn't beat out Curtis Martin in 4 years.But Jordan is the one with the potential to be Top 10....
What has Lamont Jordan ever done to get such man-love from some of you guys... the fact that you own them? I own Kevan Barlow, and while I think he'll bounce back a little, I would never claim Top 10. Pass whatever it is you're smoking to the left!
Your still not looking at the whole picture. Eddie was not playing effective football. Martin has been. Why whould NY simple move an elite and HoF RB for the purpose of moving him? Jordan hadn't had a fraction of the chance to perform in NY that Brown has had in Tenn. This may or may not be due to talent level... we can't be sure yet. One thing is for certain though, Martin has been a FAR better and more effective RB the past few years than Eddie has.You're absolutely right Marc. Chris Brown forced Eddie George off of the only team he ever played for (Oilers even!) in his first training camp after missing his rookie season, while a healthy Lamont Jordan couldn't beat out Curtis Martin in 4 years.But Jordan is the one with the potential to be Top 10....
Also: Chris Brown is injury-prone because of his upright style. How does that give you turf-toe? I'm so tired of the "upright" running style argument. It's hogwash.
To be fair Lamont and Brown's situation is different in the fact that Eddie had clearly been in decline while Curtis obviously has not.I have no idea how Lamont will do but I will probably draft him before Brown because 1) I think they will have similar stats (somewhere in the 13-16 range) and 2) I don't want the headache of having my #1 or #2 RB listed as questionable 11 out of 16 games. Any Chris Brown owners want to chime in on how much fun that was last season?Edit: Nice work Jurb
I don't care if he does a chicken dance so long as he is effective. The problem is that he had the turf toe and the shoulder and two offseason surgeries and the hamstring that cost him his rookie season and the sternum injury his senior year and the ankle that cost him four games his junior year.Chris Brown = Fragile Fred Taylor
True, George was in decline, but they gave Brown that job without him having played a full, meaningful game. He carried what, 5 times in the Patriots-Titans playoff game? Titans coaches apparently saw enough.As far as the "questionable every week" issue, if you had Brown as your #1 or #2 RB, sure that pissed you off. If he was your #3 or #4, no big whoop.To be fair Lamont and Brown's situation is different in the fact that Eddie had clearly been in decline while Curtis obviously has not.I have no idea how Lamont will do but I will probably draft him before Brown because 1) I think they will have similar stats (somewhere in the 13-16 range) and 2) I don't want the headache of having my #1 or #2 RB listed as questionable 11 out of 16 games. Any Chris Brown owners want to chime in on how much fun that was last season?
Edit: Nice work Jurb
Oh Ok good argument..... Your argument holds no validation what so ever; I can list 20 RB's and say the exact same thing. Other then a few RB's it is difficult predicting who will finish top 10 as was the case last year with R. Johnson, D. Davis, and W. McGahee all finishing top 10 in my league. You would have also had a hard time predicting T. Barber to finish top 10 again last season.Says the LaMont Jordan owner... how about a little objectivity, homer? :rotflmao:Titans are a pass-first team huh? Eddie George must have sucked then.
Jordan is faster and more instinctive than Brown? And you know this from watching him play so much these past 4 years?
The Raiders have a better offense than the Titans? The Raiders (did) have the #7, the Titans #6. Boy, you're right, the Raiders are far better...
Lamont Jordan will be a Top 10 back? Tell that to (in no given order)...
Tomlinson
Alexander
Holmes
McGahee
A. Green
Portis
D. Davis
J. Lewis
K. Jones
Holmes
Dillon
J. Jones
McAllister
Bell
C. Brown
R. Johnson
Henry (should he get traded)
Barber
S. Jackson
Westbrook
Martin
Taylor
My point exactly.The Jets didn't even make a half-assed effort to keep Jordon behind CuMar, who, even if he didn't decline, had injury problems two and three years ago - and won't be around for another five years.If Jordon was such a high flight talent, it seems to me the Jets would have at least lip-serviced trying to keep him.On the flip side, while their situations were remarkabley different of course, Brown made a solid vet like Eddie completely expendable - even as a backup - the Titans, as I recall, threw numbers at Eddie they knew he wouldn't take.
Beef - the T-Bone in your new avatar looks REALLY tasty - gimmee a grill and that steak and I'll be a happy man.
????Many years behind CuMar in practice (Jordan) versus one year as a rookie (Brown).Brown had more opportunities?
Sounds about right - on AVERAGE!! Jordan will have games where he gets no more than 40 yards rushing, and he'll have games where he gets over 100 yards rushing, but over the year, yeah, I think he averages in the 10-12 FF points and RB 22/23 or lower range.I have not done my projections for 2005 yet, but at this point, that is where I see him (subject to radical changes, of course, as training camp actually opens).So have you done projections for both? 10-12 points each week? That would be about 50 yards rushing and 1 TD or maybe 70 rushing and 30 receiving? You don't see too many 100 yard rushing games in his future for this year (or maybe you don't think he'll get any TD's)? Please explain.
BTW- LOL at the snapback "Simple really."
Why not? Jordon had a LOT more time - and a BUTTLOAD more game time through the 2003 season - than Brown did. Brown was a rook with very little opp as of the end of the 2003 season, which was essentially when the team ditched Eddie.You can't be serious.
The two situations are not even remotely close. C. Martin has remained at a high level and still does to this day. If C. Martin began to fall off as was the case with E. George then you could compare the 2 situations. The Jets had drafted Jordan as the replacement and still would have liked for him to be the replacement but Martin did not fall off and the Jets ran out of time. Jordan has worked his way into a starting roll and will get his chance this year to start. I don't think one guy is better then the other because he got a chance to start sooner, sometimes that is the case but not in this given situation. That is all circumstantial stuff that can many times can not be controlled. Also, some players can jump right in and be quality starters but other times it may take a couple of years. Saying one guy is more talented based on only on circumstnace is not valid enough. Especially when you are a player playing behind a hall of fame RB. That is just not fair.
The team ditched Eddie and gave Brown a shot PRIMARILY due to Eddie's inability to play effectively. Martin did not have this problem. Most times in the NFL, a window of opportunity has to be OPENED before a player can jump through it. Eddie opened a window, Martin kept his shut! HUGE difference here. Oh and if you think practice time relates that well with real game time, your fooling yourself. These guys don't even wear full pads 90% of the time in practice! This relation is completley flaVVed.Why not? Jordon had a LOT more time - and a BUTTLOAD more game time through the 2003 season - than Brown did. Brown was a rook with very little opp as of the end of the 2003 season, which was essentially when the team ditched Eddie.You can't be serious.
????You said Brpown had more time than Jordon to prove his worth - that is simply erroneous.The team ditched Eddie and gave Brown a shot PRIMARILY due to Eddie's inability to play effectively. Martin did not have this problem. Most times in the NFL, a window of opportunity has to be OPENED before a player can jump through it. Eddie opened a window, Martin kept his shut! HUGE difference here. Oh and if you think practice time relates that well with real game time, your fooling yourself. These guys don't even wear full pads 90% of the time in practice! This relation is completley flaVVed.Why not? Jordon had a LOT more time - and a BUTTLOAD more game time through the 2003 season - than Brown did. Brown was a rook with very little opp as of the end of the 2003 season, which was essentially when the team ditched Eddie.You can't be serious.
I had already posted this before, but since you asked . . .
It is not erroneous at all. Brown was named starter last year because of E. George's inablility to no longer perform. C. Brown was given a chance to start due to E. George's inability, therefore, Brown was alloted more time to prove his worth as a starting NFL player as opposed to the opportunity of what being a back up gives you. Tenn had nothing to lose anyomore. They figured any starting RB in the NFL can muster out the 3.25 ypc average that George had done in his last 3 years as the starter in Tenn. If Martin was running like George, than Jordan, like Brown, would have had his chance. Now that he has his chance we can compare the 2 RB's as starting NFL RB's as opposed to basing only on previous circumstances by saying Brown is more talented because he started sooner in his career and will get more FF points next season.????You said Brpown had more time than Jordon to prove his worth - that is simply erroneous.The team ditched Eddie and gave Brown a shot PRIMARILY due to Eddie's inability to play effectively. Martin did not have this problem. Most times in the NFL, a window of opportunity has to be OPENED before a player can jump through it. Eddie opened a window, Martin kept his shut! HUGE difference here. Oh and if you think practice time relates that well with real game time, your fooling yourself. These guys don't even wear full pads 90% of the time in practice! This relation is completley flaVVed.Why not? Jordon had a LOT more time - and a BUTTLOAD more game time through the 2003 season - than Brown did. Brown was a rook with very little opp as of the end of the 2003 season, which was essentially when the team ditched Eddie.You can't be serious.
That, I agree with - but I never said Brown was more talented simply b/c he started sooner. I strongly disagree that Jordon has not had time to show his talent - he had much more in-game and non-in-game time than Brown has had.Recall that Martin was VERY hurt a few years ago - maybe 2002? - and ended up splitting a lot of time with Jordan. Lamont has had a TON of time to show his talent in gametime situations.
I agree that L. Jordan has had a chance to prove his talent but he has not had the window of opportunity to start like C. Brown has had. In fact, judging by his contract and being named Oakland's starter I think L.Jordan has done more then enough to prove his talent and that he deserves a chance to start. If L. Jordan wasn't under contract with the Jets he may have even been a starter sooner on a different team. The Jets still even after Jordan had become a free agent wanted him back but they did not have the money. It is not as if they did not know he was starting material with lots of talent its just they had C. Martin still producing as their starter. In addition, C. Martin had said that Jordan should be a starting RB in the NFL and will get his chance.What you have mentioned or someone had mentioned in a previous post is L. Jordan had time to prove his worth and dethrone C. Martin which is not true. Especially in comparison to Brown's situation with the Titans and E. George.
Average of 20th ranked RB. Thank you.
and D. Gabriel. Not a bad 4th WR!
And with ALL that passing power, how much will Lamont touch the ball?
Garner is pretty much the opposite style rb compared to Jordan and any comparisons are off base IMO. Garner is a 3rd down type back whereas Lamont is a 1st/2nd down back who will probably sit in most 3rd down situations (like Jamal Lewis). They have a different system, coach, wr's, qb, etc. I think the only parallel as you mentioned is that they both wore a Raiders helmet and both play RB.
2001 New York Jets 16g 1513yds 10TDs2002 New York Jets 16g 1094yds 5TDs
decline, but Martin never was....If it wasn't for Martin's "Comeback Player of the Year"-type season compared to George's backup duty in Dallas last year, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.Fact remains, Chris Brown replaced Eddie George after the numbers George put up in 2003, but Lamont Jordan could not beat out Curtis Martin after the stats Martin put up the same year!!! But I forgot, you know more than NFL coaches do.... 
LT was playing hurt all last year. Are you telling me that this was the huge window of opportunity for Chatman and Turner as well. Lets be serious here. Teams are not likely to jump ship on quality players who are still productive.
Brown's ceiling was top 5 last year until he got hurt. He was one of the most productive backs (if not the most productive) in the league last year through the first 5 weeks: 16-100, 26-152-1, 23-101-1, 15-55, 27-148-2 and don't forget some of those outings were only 1/2 game. So 4 of 5 games he ran for over 100 yards and he doesn't have the ability to be a stud but Jordan does? Another thing I don't get is that everyone thinks that Moss makes RB's great and because Moss is on the team Lamont is assured to be a stud. When was the last time Minn had a top 5-10 back? The Robert Smith days? A lot of people are still expecting Moss to be a goal line option but also think that Jordan will be the goal line option. There is only 1 football and something's gotta give.
This comment is one I must ponder over, and one that requires some digging. Turner gets credit for molding the careers of some top RB, but I had to go back and check to see how much credit he actually was due. There is no question about the performance level of RB on Turner's teams, but I was curious as to how much of the success could really be bestowed on his ability to "pick" a RB.Turner was with the Rams from 1985 - 1990. For those with poor memories, the Rams had Eric Dickerson BEFORE Turner got there, and Dickerson only put up 2105/14 the year BEFORE Turner got the keys to the offense. After Dickerson was traded to the Colts, Charles White took over without missing a beat. The Rams later picked up Greg Bell, who had a couple of good seasons as a Top 15 or so RB in Buffalo but did do much better with the Rams.Turner then went to Dallas from 1991 - 1993 . . . who already had Emmitt Smith BEFORE Turner got there. And we all know how that turned out, so there's no need to rehash that here.Next stop, Washington from 1994 - 2000. One of his first orders of business was to import Terry Allen, a Top 5 -10 RB from Minnesota. The first RB that Turner actually "made" was Stephen Davis--who needed 4 years to get a chance to play.On to San Diego for a year (2001). I don't know how much influence Turner had in the draft, but it was clear the Bolts did not want Michael Vick and they ended up with LT. Clearly an excellent selection--as LT had a great rookie year and flourished after Turner left.On to Miami for 2002 and 2003, acquiring Ricky Williams who had one phenomenal year and another very good year for the Phins (after Ricky was first productive in N.O.). And of course, he went to Oakland last season.I think part of the credit must go to Turner for his system, but I also think he had some good luck in starting out with HOF caliber talent or getting RB that were already proven. (He also had several cases where not so well known RB stepped right in and were productive.)Just for ha-has, here are the stat lines for the most productive RB each year under Turner's offenses.1985: Eric Dickerson 292-1234-12 rushing, 20-126-0 receiving (10th)1986: Eric Dickerson 404-1821-11 rushing, 26-205-0 receiving (1st)1987: Charles White 324-1374-11 rushing, 23-121-0 receiving (1st)1988: Greg Bell 288-1212-16 rushing, 24-124-2 receiving (4th)1989: Greg Bell 272-1137-15 rushing, 19-85-0 receiving (7th)1990: Cleveland Gary 204-808-14 rushing, 30-150-1 receiving (6th)1991: Emmitt Smith 365-1563-12 rushing, 49-258-1 receiving (3rd)1992: Emmitt Smith 373-1713-18 rushing, 59-335-1 receiving (1st)1993: Emmitt Smith 283-1486-9 rushing, 57-414-1 receiving (1st)1994: Ricky Ervins 185-650-3 rushing, 51-293-1 receiving (28th)1995: Terry Allen 338-1309-10 rushing, 31-232-1 receiving (7th)1996: Terry Allen 347-1353-21 rushing, 32-194-0 receiving (1st)1997: Terry Allen 210-724-4 rushing, 20-172-1 receiving (28th)1998: Terry Allen 148-700-2 rushing, 17-128-0 receiving (31st)1999: Stephen Davis 290-1405-17 rushing, 23-111-0 receiving (4th)2000: Stephen Davis 332-1318-11 rushing, 33-313-0 receiving (12th)2001: LaDainian Tomlinson 339-1236-10 rushing, 59-367-0 receiving (7th)2002: Ricky Williams 383-1853-16 rushing, 47-363-1 receiving (2nd)2003: Ricky Williams 392-1372-9 rushing, 50-351-1 receiving (9th)2004: Amos Zereoue 112-425-3 rushing, 39-284-0 receiving (39th)That averages out to 294-1235-14 rushing, 35-231-1 (11th). That average would amount to 236 fantasy points, and using 2004 rankings, that would have ranked as the #8 RB.In 20 years, Turner produced 15 Top 10 seasons including the #1 fantasy RB 5 times (and 4 different RB ranked #1 mind you).So that's the Turner story. the question remains is Jordan in the same class as some of the other RB . . . and you all can decide that one on your own.
