Can We Civilly Discuss Thoughts On Vaccination? A Poll. (1 Viewer)

[Doug B]

Additionally, I believe most of these athletes we hear about are only knowing they are positive due to very frequent testing.

This times a thousand. See also the breakthrough cases on the New York Yankees.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

 The long-term effects are also a concern - we don’t know what they are.

Good point,  but the reverse could also be true. We also don't know what the long term effect is by not getting it.

 

[Manster]

I got vaccinated very early on because of my job (1a)......I wanted to go back to normal.  I didn't really think about it too much, or research it......I just want to go to ball games and go to the store without a mask.

I have young children and I feel differently about it for them.  I am not convinced they need to be vaccinated.  I'm still looking at the potential side effects vs. the likelihood of them having problems from getting covid......hell, they may have already had it....they've  had sniffles and the like over the course of this thing.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Thanks folks for the excellent discussion. Just what I was hoping for. 

 

[2Squirrels1Nut]

Additionally, I believe most of these athletes we hear about are only knowing they are positive due to very frequent testing.

This times a thousand. See also the breakthrough cases on the New York Yankees

And this times a thousand.  Who knows how many infectious diseases we may have at any given time time that our immune system fights off without our knowledge?

I agreed with the protocols professional sports implemented prior to a vaccine but it's time to end it.  Vaccinations have been readily available for everyone that wants one.  If people want to roll the dice, I think absence of a preexisting condition, a horrible choice, but that's on them. 

FWIW my younger teenage kids both received the vaccine as soon as they could.  I can't overstate how much happier they are now. 

 

[The Dude]

If you dont mind me tagging on, I'm curious to know how people feel about their kids getting it and what age group they are in. 

Max, I got a qb year old here.  Got him his first Pfizer than the heart stuff came out.  Concerned about his second shot on Thursday but I think we are going ahead withit

 

[2Squirrels1Nut]

That's what they're telling me. Actually it's more the "LOLZ so much for Joe and his vaccinations" stuff. 

That's incredibly disappointing.   My children didn't have to go through the hell that is chicken pox because there's a vaccine. I didn't have to go through the worry or hell that is polio, measels and countless others, like my parents. 

Andrew Wakefield has committed one of the most horrible crimes against humanity.  

 

[Joe Bryant]

Ooof. Maybe they are bad at jokes?

This is good, easy to digest info: 

Vax and hospitalization

Did you mean another link? There's nothing helpful there at all related to the "you can still test positive but being vaccinated vastly reduces the risks" angle.

May 13, 2021 -- A new study found that more than 99% of patients hospitalized with COVID-19 during the first four months of 2021 weren’t fully vaccinated.

The Cleveland Clinic, which released the data on Tuesday, also found that the mRNA vaccines created by Pfizer and Moderna were more than 96% effective in protecting against COVID-19 infection.

The study “shows that those that are vaccinated are far, far less likely to get the disease than those who aren’t,” Donald Dumford, MD, medical director of infection control for Cleveland Clinic Akron General, told the Akron Beacon Journal.

“The way for us to start to get back to normal life is to have as many people as possible be immune from the virus,” he said. “The vaccine is the best way to do this.”

Among the 4,300 COVID-19 patients admitted to Cleveland Clinic hospitals between Jan. 1 and April 13, 99.75% were not fully vaccinated.

The study also looked at 47,000 Cleveland Clinic employees who had received one shot, two shots, or no shots. Among those, 1,991 tested positive for the coronavirus in recent months. About 99.7% of those who contracted COVID-19 weren’t vaccinated, and .3% were fully vaccinated.

The Cleveland Clinic began offering the vaccine to employees in Ohio in December, according to Cleveland.com. The initial supply was limited, so most employees weren’t vaccinated until early 2021. Of the 51,000 Cleveland Clinic employees in Ohio, about 70% of employees have now been vaccinated, the news outlet reported.

Ohio opened vaccine eligibility to adults over age 80 in mid-January, the news outlet reported. As of March 29, ages 16 and older can receive a COVID-19 vaccine.

More than 4.8 million people in Ohio have received a COVID-19 vaccine, according to data from the Ohio Department of Health. Nearly 42% of residents have received at least one dose, and 36% are considered fully vaccinated.

It's the standard line of 

“The way for us to start to get back to normal life is to have as many people as possible be immune from the virus,” he said. “The vaccine is the best way to do this.”

Their response is something like "Tell that to the NC State vaccinated kids who are kicked out of the tournament after testing positive".

 

[The Commish]

Max, I got a qb year old here.  Got him his first Pfizer than the heart stuff came out.  Concerned about his second shot on Thursday but I think we are going ahead withit

Just an FYI...the "heart stuff" isn't new and a risk with all the vaccines taken ever.  Go forward with it.  He'll be fine.

 

[Osaurus]

Vaccinated without question in late April as soon as I could. The plan was to make sure Mrs. O and I could schedule both shots together (Pfizer) and we did. We saw this vaccine as a way to reduce our risk locally and traveling, which we both love and have missed dearly the last year+

 

[The Commish]

I got the vaccine as soon as I could, but initially had zero intention of getting it.  Fortunately, my wife made me read and educate myself.  By the time I was eligible, I was ready to go.  In hindsight, I felt pretty dumb having the initial attitude that I did.

 

[Joe Bryant]

I got the vaccine as soon as I could, but initially had zero intention of getting it.  Fortunately, my wife made me read and educate myself.  By the time I was eligible, I was ready to go.  In hindsight, I felt pretty dumb having the initial attitude that I did.

May I ask - What were your initial hesitations?

For the people I talk to - there is a general uneasiness about the unknown yet long term effects. Nobody worries about the measles vaccination as we've had tons of time to see the long term effects (or lack of them). 

I know it's fun to characterize anyone choosing not to take it as Trump rally mouthbreathers. The people I talk to on this who aren't getting it are highly educated highly successful people. 

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

I got the vaccine as soon as I could, but initially had zero intention of getting it.  Fortunately, my wife made me read and educate myself.  By the time I was eligible, I was ready to go.  In hindsight, I felt pretty dumb having the initial attitude that I did.

Why would you feel dumb because you wanted to educate yourself first?

 

[The Commish]

Why would you feel dumb because you wanted to educate yourself first?

I felt dumb because I jumped to a conclusion before educating myself and I was REALLY wrong in my initial position.

 

[2Squirrels1Nut]

I felt dumb because I jumped to a conclusion before educating myself and I was REALLY wrong in my initial position.

It takes a strong person to admit it and I really admire that. 

 

[The Commish]

May I ask - What were your initial hesitations?

For the people I talk to - there is a general uneasiness about the unknown yet long term effects. Nobody worries about the measles vaccination as we've had tons of time to see the long term effects (or lack of them). 

I know it's fun to characterize anyone choosing not to take it as Trump rally mouthbreathers. The people I talk to on this who aren't getting it are highly educated highly successful people. 

It was three layers.  First one being, approach, testing, etc (meaning the logistics of it all).  The second was the politics of it all.  I didn't trust our government to do the right thing if we hit a stumbling block.  Third, I didn't know a whole lot about the approach (approach here being the scientific approach).  Fortunately I have a wife who called me out on it and gave me more literature than I could ever want.  She's a cardiovascular research professor and has been working closely with other really intelligent people on this whole thing through the lens of heart research.  So, I've gotten to listen to some of their zoom chats, read some of their work etc.  It's all in the FFA thread on this topic.  Through all that and understanding the ingredients of the vaccine etc, it eased my mind considerably.  It's my belief that IF there are long term affects of this vaccine it's going to be because of some combo of preexisting conditions that exists in an incredibly small number of people, to the point where they are more likely to catch and die from COVID than they are to die from the vaccine.

ETA:  Clarification for listing "approach" twice.

 

[The General]

Did you mean another link? There's nothing helpful there at all related to the "you can still test positive but being vaccinated vastly reduces the risks" angle.

The entire article talks about being vaccinated reducing your risk of being seriously sick. That wouldn’t be important to people?

It’s more anecdotal but these athletes are being tested everyday or every couple days as part of being able to play. I believe most of them are unaware they are even sick.

 

[Joe Bryant]

It was three layers.  First one being, approach, testing, etc (meaning the logistics of it all).  The second was the politics of it all.  I didn't trust our government to do the right thing if we hit a stumbling block.  Third, I didn't know a whole lot about the approach (approach here being the scientific approach).  Fortunately I have a wife who called me out on it and gave me more literature than I could ever want.  She's a cardiovascular research professor and has been working closely with other really intelligent people on this whole thing through the lens of heart research.  So, I've gotten to listen to some of their zoom chats, read some of their work etc.  It's all in the FFA thread on this topic.  Through all that and understanding the ingredients of the vaccine etc, it eased my mind considerably.  It's my belief that IF there are long term affects of this vaccine it's going to be because of some combo of preexisting conditions that exists in an incredibly small number of people, to the point where they are more likely to catch and die from COVID than they are to die from the vaccine.

ETA:  Clarification for listing "approach" twice.

Thanks for the extra insight there. 

 

[2Squirrels1Nut]

May I ask - What were your initial hesitations?

For the people I talk to - there is a general uneasiness about the unknown yet long term effects. Nobody worries about the measles vaccination as we've had tons of time to see the long term effects (or lack of them). 

I know it's fun to characterize anyone choosing not to take it as Trump rally mouthbreathers. The people I talk to on this are highly educated highly successful people. 

Since I mentioned measels, I hope this isn't directed at me.  If it is, I apologize, I meant nothing of the sort.  

About half my friends who are republican have been vaccinated. The other half are not for precisely the "long term effects"  worry.  It has been a talking point of the right since the vaccination was first announced. 

For your measels example, everyone lined up to get the vaccination as soon as they could.  They didn't wait 20,30,40 years to see what happened. 

I'm happy to report that I convinced more than a few of them to get vaccinated while gently reminding them of diseases we never had to deal with however it's ultimately their decision. 

In the same vein, I have a good friend that posts on this board who lost his FIL a couple of months ago to Covid.  He didn't get vaccinated because he was worried about the long term effects.  I'm incredibly sad for him and his family for their grief that was almost certainly preventable. 

 

[Joe Mammy]

I simply asked my doctors if I should get vaxed. They both said emphatically, ASAP!

I've talked to folks who will not get the vax.

I don't talk to them anymore. Just smh.

 

[2Squirrels1Nut]

I simply asked my doctors if I should get vaxed. They both said emphatically, ASAP!

I've talked to folks who will not get the vax.

I don't talk to them anymore. Just smh.

I agree with the SMH but couldn't disagree more GB with bolded. 

You don't win hearts and minds by ignoring issues or telling people that they are stupid. I kindly ask you to gently push them in the right direction. To try to truly understand where they are coming from and address those concerns with factual compassion. 

 

[Joe Bryant]

Since I mentioned measels, I hope this isn't directed at me.  If it is, I apologize, I meant nothing of the sort.  

About half my friends who are republican have been vaccinated. The other half are not for precisely the "long term effects"  worry.  It has been a talking point of the right since the vaccination was first announced. 

For your measels example, everyone lined up to get the vaccination as soon as they could.  They didn't wait 20,30,40 years to see what happened. 

I'm happy to report that I convinced more than a few of them to get vaccinated while gently reminding them of diseases we never had to deal with however it's ultimately their decision. 

In the same vein, I have a good friend that posts on this board who lost his FIL a couple of months ago to Covid.  He didn't get vaccinated because he was worried about the long term effects.  I'm incredibly sad for him and his family for their grief that was almost certainly preventable. 

No worries. I didn't see your post on measles. 

 

[Joe Mammy]

I agree with the SMH but couldn't disagree more GB with bolded. 

You don't win hearts and minds by ignoring issues or telling people that they are stupid. I kindly ask you to gently push them in the right direction. I try to truly understand where they are coming from and address those concerns with factual compassion. 

No. These people will not be convinced by any gentle reasoning. I did not tell them they are stupid. Just that I disagree. I will move on from them. They can do what they wish.

 

[Joe Bryant]

And when I say it's different than getting a measles vaccination, I mean today.

Today, we can look at the long history of non trouble after a measles vaccine.

We simply don't have that advantage of time yet for the COVID vaccine unfortunately. 

 

[2Squirrels1Nut]

And when I say it's different than getting a measles vaccination, I mean today.

Today, we can look at the long history of non trouble after a measles vaccine.

We simply don't have that advantage of time yet for the COVID vaccine unfortunately. 

I understand that however there wasn't the same apprehension when other vaccinations became mainstream and we had the same disadvantage at the time. How and why did this suddenly change? 

 

[The General]

I agree with the SMH but couldn't disagree more GB with bolded. 

You don't win hearts and minds by ignoring issues or telling people that they are stupid. I kindly ask you to gently push them in the right direction. I try to truly understand where they are coming from and address those concerns with factual compassion. 

For me this sounds great but in actual practice I just don’t see it working out.

There is so much info out there to let people know what’s up. I can’t see myself having any serious convos at this point with someone who wants to do their own thing.

All the people we hang with IRL are vaxed so haven’t really experienced this. As things open back up I imagine there will be more mingling going on but I’m not bringing this topic up.

If the positive data continues as it is if someone’s not I don’t really want to hear about it, hear about why they chose not too, etc. It’s fine. I’m just going to avoid this conversation.

 

[Joe Bryant]

No. These people will not be convinced by any gentle reasoning. I did not tell them they are stupid. Just that I disagree. I will move on from them. They can do what they wish.

That's a bummer.

The relationship must not be too important if that would break it. 

I've got close friends who aren't getting it. And some who got it only because of work requirements and wouldn't have got it otherwise. I disagree with them. But it doesn't kill our friendship by any stretch. Me choosing to be vaccinated does not affect how they think of me. (At least that's what they tell me...  )

 

[Joe Bryant]

I understand that however there wasn't the same apprehension when other vaccinations became mainstream and we had the same disadvantage at the time. How and why did this suddenly change? 

I don't know enough about how people wanted the measles vaccine back in the day. 

There were people lining up and fighting to get the COVID vaccine too. 

My guess is the politicalization of the vaccine and social media and divisive news outlets have a big impact. I'd say that's what has changed. 

 

[supermike80]

I agree with the SMH but couldn't disagree more GB with bolded. 

You don't win hearts and minds by ignoring issues or telling people that they are stupid. I kindly ask you to gently push them in the right direction. To try to truly understand where they are coming from and address those concerns with factual compassion. 

Here's a better idea.  Let them do what they want and stop trying to "push them in the right direction"

Stay out.  

Vaxxed here and no regrets

 

[Joe Mammy]

That's a bummer.

The relationship must not be too important if that would break it. 

I've got two close friends who aren't getting it. Two more who got it only because of work requirements and wouldn't have got it otherwise. I disagree with them. But it doesn't kill our friendship by any stretch. Me choosing to be vaccinated does not affect how they think of me. (At least that's what they tell me...  )

I just have to ask? Has anyone you know died of covid? 

I went into deep hibernation after my pickleball tournament partner for years, a former Green Beret got covid. He was on a ventilator in ICU for 16 days. His wife called me and was convinced he was gonna die. This guy is a toughie and managed to survive. He still is having issues and his feet are numb. He can't play any sports now and has to go for treatment weekly.

He loves Harley biking and was on his way to Sturgis. He cancelled. I told him I heard that was a huge spreader event. He told me, "I'll never get that stupid hoax disease." 

He's lucky to still be with us and I love him.

 

[Joe Bryant]

I just have to ask? Has anyone you know died of covid? 

I went into deep hibernation after my pickleball tournament partner for years, a former Green Beret got covid. He was on a ventilator in ICU for 16 days. His wife called me and was convinced he was gonna die. This guy is a toughie and managed to survive. He still is having issues and his feet are numb. He can't play any sports now and has to go for treatment weekly.

He loves Harley biking and was on his way to Sturgis. He cancelled. I told him I heard that was a huge spreader event. He told me, "I'll never get that stupid hoax disease." 

He's lucky to still be with us and I love him.

Some people I knew distantly died of COVID. Nobody close to me. 

I don't know if I'd call it "hibernation" but my family followed lockdown procedures closely. We took and take it seriously. Not sure how that relates to breaking relationship today over vaccine though. 

 

[Joe Mammy]

Some people I knew distantly died of COVID. Nobody close to me. 

I don't know if I'd call it "hibernation" but my family followed lockdown procedures closely. We took and take it seriously. Not sure how that relates to breaking relationship today over vaccine though. 

Breaking relationship? I have casual friends who will not get the vax. I have no desire to hang with them ever again. As I age (63 recently) my social circle is definitely shrinking. But so what? I know what and who I can deal with and my remaining time is not to be wasted.

 

[2Squirrels1Nut]

I don't know enough about how people wanted the measles vaccine back in the day. 

There were people lining up and fighting to get the COVID vaccine too. 

My guess is the politicalization of the vaccine and social media and divisive news outlets have a big impact. I'd say that's what has changed. 

I think that's accurate. It's not really the vaccine though IMO. It's the constant message that their audience/supporters can't trust the government and "they" are lying to you.  So if the CDC, WHO, say it's safe, it obviously isn't.  There only some people on one side of the aisle you can trust and literally the rest of the world is lying. 

 

[Dickies]

I don't know enough about how people wanted the measles vaccine back in the day. 

There were people lining up and fighting to get the COVID vaccine too. 

My guess is the politicalization of the vaccine and social media and divisive news outlets have a big impact. I'd say that's what has changed. 

Andrew Wakefield started it all and people like Oprah amplified his message. There is a reason that diseases we thought were long gone are making resurgences. People were fed a bunch of BS about vaccines causing serious health conditions.

I know a couple antivaxxers in real life and their spiel is that we should all educate ourselves before putting a vaccine in our body. The irony is that if they actually educated themselves about vaccines they would get them. 

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

The entire article talks about being vaccinated reducing your risk of being seriously sick. That wouldn’t be important to people?

It’s more anecdotal but these athletes are being tested everyday or every couple days as part of being able to play. I believe most of them are unaware they are even sick.

Then why would they even be testing and sitting kids out in the first place if everyone is fine and unaware they are even sick?

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

Andrew Wakefield started it all and people like Oprah amplified his message. There is a reason that diseases we thought were long gone are making resurgences. People were fed a bunch of BS about vaccines causing serious health conditions.

I know a couple antivaxxers in real life and their spiel is that we should all educate ourselves before putting a vaccine in our body. The irony is that if they actually educated themselves about vaccines they would get them. 

Prove it's BS.  I have a family member with auto-immune disorders and we're almost positive it's from a vaccine.  Our doctor says it is.  This nonsense about trying to dictate who's more or less educated than who is so tiresome.

 

[KarmaPolice]

I got it, no regrets.  I was also healthy, and in the 3rd (I think?) of eligibility for WI.  Being healthy enough, I am not sure I would have gotten it before then if I could have.  But having months of people getting it with very little negative and had extra time to research, I was ready.   14yo got it right away when it opened up.  We also have a 6 year old, and assume she will also get it right away when available.  

 

[The General]

Then why would they even be testing and sitting kids out in the first place if everyone is fine and unaware they are even sick?

Vaxes have always been at like 95% efficacy right? So there’s always been known you could still get it afterwards. 

We are learning (like the article I posted talks about) the benefits in protecting people if you still get covid after being vaxed.

I’d guess why they test for people playing sports and hold people out is that sports are unnecessary, and in the case of NCAA baseball they are amateurs. So people organizing this want to be as safe as possible, over cautious, etc. 

 

[timschochet]

Here's a better idea.  Let them do what they want and stop trying to "push them in the right direction"

Stay out.  

Vaxxed here and no regrets

I’ve always been in favor of this sort of libertarian position. Despite @BladeRunnerinsisting I’m a leftist, individual freedom has al always been my fallback position. 
But this worldwide pandemic has caused me to wonder about it. If millions of people around the world either refuse to get vaccinated (or in some cases are unable to obtain it) then some of them are going to get sick and die. That’s not an acceptable outcome in the name of free will. 

 

[2Squirrels1Nut]

Here's a better idea.  Let them do what they want and stop trying to "push them in the right direction"

Stay out.  

Vaxxed here and no regrets

They're people I love that I don't want to see sick or worse.   That's what people do for people they love.  They look out for each other the best they can. In this instance, it's not only in their best interest but of that of the country and the world. 

Two years ago a former colleague had cancer.  I was on a short email chain where he updated his progress.  He decided to forgo western medicine because it's all about profit.  Instead he went for "alternative" natural treatment in Mexico.  After all it was "proven" and only a few thousand dollars.  After several emails and three months he was happy to announce he was cancer free.  A month later he was dead. 

I stayed out of it. I regret it with every fiber of my being. Life is more than ourselves.  

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

They're people I love that I don't want to see sick or worse.   That's what people do for people they love.  They look out for each other the best they can. In this instance, it's not only in their best interest but of that of the country and the world. 

Two years ago a former colleague had cancer.  I was on a short email chain where he updated his progress.  He decided to forgo western medicine because it's all about profit.  Instead he went for "alternative" natural treatment in Mexico.  After all it was "proven" and only a few thousand dollars.  After several emails and three months he was happy to announce he was cancer free.  A month later he was dead. 

I stayed out of it. I regret it with every fiber of my being. Life is more than ourselves.  

Sorry about your friend but there’s plenty of people that die from normal cancer treatments too.  You shouldn’t push your beliefs on anyone anymore than they should to you.  

 

[The Commish]

And when I say it's different than getting a measles vaccination, I mean today.

Today, we can look at the long history of non trouble after a measles vaccine.

We simply don't have that advantage of time yet for the COVID vaccine unfortunately. 

This is true, but I have yet to figure out the concern people have with the Pfizer or Moderna vaccines.  I can't figure out which ingredient specifically they are concerned about.  All the ingredients that make up those vaccines are in and out of our bodies on a daily basis.  If you can bring it up with your friends, I'd be interested in their response to that question.  

 

[Shula-holic]

Vaccinated and no regrets.  I feel like everyone now who wants it has had a chance to get it.  Time for life as normal and to get rid of some of the protocols we have now that are outdated IMO, especially for outdoor activities and athletes of younger ages.

 

[Doug B]

It's the standard line of 

“The way for us to start to get back to normal life is to have as many people as possible be immune from the virus,” he said. “The vaccine is the best way to do this.”

Their response is something like "Tell that to the NC State vaccinated kids who are kicked out of the tournament after testing positive".

You know ... I'm looking at this exchange, Joe, and I'm realizing that your friends threw a non-sequitur back at you. What went down with the NC State team has nothing at all to do with overall society benefitting from a high level of vaccination.

For one thing, the NCAA imposes protocols that have no purvey outside of their competitions. The NC State players' vaccinations still benefit themselves and overall society -- they absolutely did the right thing from a wider perspective.

 

[JerryG]

Vaxxed and no regrets.  I have some medical issues which would make it not good for me to get Covid.  My confidence is actually in the big pharma companies — people say that they are in it for the money, and they are making quite a bit, but it could be catastrophic to their brand if their vaccine caused a lot of death or serious illness.  I don’t think they would have released it if they weren’t somewhat confident that at least it won’t harm you.  As an extra bonus, this mRNA technology could someday help me or people like me, so I felt a little like I was helping to beta test

My faith is NOT in the government.  They have proved to be entirely Machiavellian throughout, lying whenever they felt the need, and I can see why many people who recognize this have chosen not to trust the vaccine.  The latest I’ve seen is that the Dept of Labor and OSHA don’t want companies to even report adverse reactions to the vaccine.  From their FAQ page:

Are adverse reactions to the COVID-19 vaccine recordable on the OSHA recordkeeping log?

DOL and OSHA, as well as other federal agencies, are working diligently to encourage COVID-19 vaccinations. OSHA does not wish to have any appearance of discouraging workers from receiving COVID-19 vaccination, and also does not wish to disincentivize employers’ vaccination efforts. As a result, OSHA will not enforce 29 CFR 1904’s recording requirements to require any employers to record worker side effects from COVID-19 vaccination through May 2022. We will reevaluate the agency’s position at that time to determine the best course of action moving forward

https://www.osha.gov/coronavirus/faqs

I guess I appreciate their being so forthright in their duplicity?  I mean really, you don’t even want the data?

 

[Doug B]

The latest I’ve seen is that the Dept of Labor and OSHA don’t want companies to even report adverse reactions to the vaccine.

That specific FAQ is worded clunky -- maybe even somewhat inaccurately -- but the guidance seems in line with 29 CFR § 1904.5(b)(2)(iii):

You are not required to record injuries and illnesses if ...

The injury or illness results solely from voluntary participation in a wellness program or in a medical, fitness, or recreational activity such as blood donation, physical examination, flu shot, exercise class, racquetball, or baseball.

 

[Terminalxylem]

Who determines medical exceptions for every individual?  I assume you’ll answer their doctor but if not Curious who you say.  I know plenty of doctors that are against the covid vaccine.  
 

If someone can’t get a medical exception and develops health issues after the vaccine, who is responsible?  How are they compensated?

Assuming no acute intercurrent illness, the only absolute contraindication to the mRNA vaccines is severe, immediate allergy to the vaccines or one their components. This is something that should have been documented and can be verified, even without a physician's blessing.

The National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program was created to compensate individuals harmed by vaccines.

 

[Terminalxylem]

Vaccinated and no regrets.  But if there were an option between "vaccinated and no regrets" and "vaccinated and some regrets" I'd probably choose that.  But I understand you wanted to keep it simple and there are only so many shades of gray worth mentioning in a poll.

What regrets do you have?

 

[Terminalxylem]

This is true, but I have yet to figure out the concern people have with the Pfizer or Moderna vaccines.  I can't figure out which ingredient specifically they are concerned about.  All the ingredients that make up those vaccines are in and out of our bodies on a daily basis.  If you can bring it up with your friends, I'd be interested in their response to that question.  

There isn't a good answer, other than "other vaccines took a lot longer to develop." Not only is there zero precedent for chronic adverse events from vaccines, the mRNA active ingredient of Pfizer/Moderna is quickly digested by our cells, so there's little biologic plausibility for long term AEs.

Potential for autoimmunity is the only thing I can think of, but that's quite a stretch when compared to the real risks posed by SARS-CoV-2.

 

[geoff8695]

If you dont mind me tagging on, I'm curious to know how people feel about their kids getting it and what age group they are in. 

Latest advice from the WHO

Children and adolescents tend to have milder disease compared to adults, so unless they are part of a group at higher risk of severe COVID-19, it is less urgent to vaccinate them than older people, those with chronic health conditions and health workers.   

More evidence is needed on the use of the different COVID-19 vaccines in children to be able to make general recommendations on vaccinating children against COVID-19.

WHO's Strategic Advisory Group of Experts (SAGE) has concluded that the Pfizer/BionTech vaccine is suitable for use by people aged 12 years and above. Children aged between 12 and 15 who are at high risk may be offered this vaccine alongside other priority groups for vaccination. Vaccine trials for children are ongoing and WHO will update its recommendations when the evidence or epidemiological situation warrants a change in policy.

I don't believe the safety of novel mRNA vaccines is settled science at this point in time - at the very least - where it pertains to children, neither does the World Health Organization...