Christian counselor is trying to get fiancee to leave me because I'm a Non-believer (1 Viewer)

[Otis]

no imagine you talk to somebody to help make things less stressful in your perfect relationship. to help make your perfect relationship even perfecter.

this topic was covered earlier in the thread... 

But I mean, the fact that you get to the point where you are in a dating relationship and you think "hmm, we should get counseling" strikes me as odd.  Like, maybe it's not the right relationship for either of you?  Maybe you'd be better off with someone else?

Anyway, you said it was covered already and the thread is already like 10 pages and a little TLDR for me, so whatever.  I'm just saying.  My first reaction to "my girlfriend and I go to relationship counseling" is "the fuhhhhh??"

 

[Otis]

Not sure if you missed my question upthread, but I’m curious how it is that you’re raising your kids Catholic if you’ve only gone to mass once since college. Is your wife taking them to mass?  Were they baptized in the Catholic Church?  Are they getting ready for First Communion?

Our first is getting ready for her first communion.  She goes to religion class every wednesday.  All were baptized.  All have done pre-K in the basement of a church.  We just don't go to church. 

After the communion, this is gonna be harder to pull off I'm sure.  Maybe.  I dunno.  I've told Mrs. O several times "good luck taking them to mass every Sunday."  She hasn't said no, but she hasn't said yes either...

 

[El Floppo]

But I mean, the fact that you get to the point where you are in a dating relationship and you think "hmm, we should get counseling" strikes me as odd.  Like, maybe it's not the right relationship for either of you?  Maybe you'd be better off with someone else?

Anyway, you said it was covered already and the thread is already like 10 pages and a little TLDR for me, so whatever.  I'm just saying.  My first reaction to "my girlfriend and I go to relationship counseling" is "the fuhhhhh??"

You're right. You don't get it.

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

Not picking Otis out specifically but I see this a lot.  "Catholicism/Christianity is nuts but yeah my kids are being raised in it."

That's a big disconnect IMO, and one I struggle with personally as stated upthread.

I don't think it's that big a disconnect.  My kids were baptized.  They don't currently go to church or any religious education and I doubt they'll take communion, but if my wife wanted to take them to church, I wouldn't care that much.  I might actually get to watch a ####### soccer game on Sunday morning for once.

It's not as if my kids aren't going to be exposed to religious beliefs.  And I'm an atheist, not a vampire.  I don't believe they'll burst into flame if they hear a psalm or something.  Eventually, they'll make up their own minds about this stuff.  And by the time, they'll know that I don't really care what they have to believe in order to try to be a  good person.  Whatever works for them.  

I'd be pissed if they became homophobes or something, but my wife and I agree on all that.  We don't disagree about how to live ethical lives or the value of kindness or any of the important stuff.  

 

[Captain Cranks]

But I mean, the fact that you get to the point where you are in a dating relationship and you think "hmm, we should get counseling" strikes me as odd.  Like, maybe it's not the right relationship for either of you?  Maybe you'd be better off with someone else?

Anyway, you said it was covered already and the thread is already like 10 pages and a little TLDR for me, so whatever.  I'm just saying.  My first reaction to "my girlfriend and I go to relationship counseling" is "the fuhhhhh??"

Think of it this way.  Tom Brady and Julian Edelman are awesome together.  However, they think they could improve upon their 3rd and goal from the 5 play.  They go to Belichick for some ideas on how to improve.  He comes up with a scheme that makes them even better.

The crappy part about our situation is that when they go to Belichick, he takes Tom to the side and tells him he found a 2,000 year old playbook that says they should trade away Edelman for some unknown.  

In general, I think you have an antiquated view of counseling.  Your relationship isn't as perfect as you think it is and I'm sure even you and your wife could benefit from counseling.    

 

[Otis]

Think of it this way.  Tom Brady and Julian Edelman are awesome together.  However, they think they could improve upon their 3rd and goal from the 5 play.  They go to Belichick for some ideas on how to improve.  He comes up with a scheme that makes them even better.

The crappy part about our situation is that when they go to Belichick, he takes Tom to the side and tells him he found a 2,000 year old playbook that says they should trade away Edelman for some unknown.  

In general, I think you have an antiquated view of counseling.  Your relationship isn't as perfect as you think it is and I'm sure even you and your wife could benefit from counseling.    

Maybe I'm antiquated.  I don't know.  What I do know is what when my wife and I were first dating, and engaged, we had nothing but happiness and carefree.  It just worked, by itself, with ease.  That was the steady state.  It didn't require effort.  And I've always felt that's the right foundation to start off with, because far as I can tell, #### ain't gettin' any easier later.

Sorry people are going bananas about this in here and it's an unpopular opinion.  Just saying what I'd say to a friend who came to me seeking advice. 

Curious to know how old you are and how long you've been together.

 

[Otis]

BTW, my relationship with my wife probably isn't "perfect" -- that's a pretty high bar -- but I've been in a whole lot of relationships over a whole lot of years, and so I feel like I have a pretty good data set.  I'm not the dude who married his high school sweetheart in here and advising on this stuff.  Nothing wrong with that dude, and kudos on him for hitting on the first shot.  But, in my experience, going through a whole lot of relationships--some bad, some pretty medium, some pretty good, but none others "right"--helped give me what I feel like is a pretty good baseline for comparison. YMMV

 

[belljr]

Has anyone suggested Latvian Orthodox yet?

 

[stbugs]

Maybe I'm antiquated.  I don't know.  What I do know is what when my wife and I were first dating, and engaged, we had nothing but happiness and carefree.  It just worked, by itself, with ease.  That was the steady state.  It didn't require effort.  And I've always felt that's the right foundation to start off with, because far as I can tell, #### ain't gettin' any easier later.

Sorry people are going bananas about this in here and it's an unpopular opinion.  Just saying what I'd say to a friend who came to me seeking advice. 

Curious to know how old you are and how long you've been together.

You aren’t antiquated. I know relationships aren’t perfect, but I don’t think I would have considered counseling before getting married as not meaning that I shouldn’t get married. I’m not talking about the Catholic stuff I had to do with my wife to be able to get married but not communicating with my wife at the time. The counseling can work, I see that, but it does seem strange to me as well. I’d think it was a relationship doomed before marriage, but I could see it working out as well. 

I just realized I forgot to take some pictures so I will. 

 

[Captain Cranks]

Curious to know how old you are and how long you've been together.

I'm 42, she's 39 and have been dating a little over two years now. We've both been married once before.  From our past experiences, we know what we want in a partner as well as what mistakes not to make.  Part of that is making sure our communication is sound and we're truly listening to the other person's feelings.  It's all part of building the best foundation possible before we get married.  

Do you and your wife not have any destructive patterns in your relationship?  Even during times of conflict you both make sure the other person's opinion is fully heard and appreciated?  

 

[Otis]

I'm 42, she's 39 and have been dating a little over two years now. We've both been married once before.  From our past experiences, we know what we want in a partner as well as what mistakes not to make.  Part of that is making sure our communication is sound and we're truly listening to the other person's feelings.  It's all part of building the best foundation possible before we get married.  

Do you and your wife not have any destructive patterns in your relationship?  Even during times of conflict you both make sure the other person's opinion is fully heard and appreciated?  

This makes it a little different for me I suppose.  I was imagining a 25 year old couple fighting and not communicating.  You guys are more experienced and seem to know what you want.  Credit to you for working on it and good luck with it.

The only destructive pattern we have is we both like to drink, and then I get fat, and my diet threads become comical

We actually don't fight very much.  In 10 years of marriage I could count the real fights on one hand, but they're so few and far between I can barely remember what they were about.  We get snippy with each other from time to time, but it's not a fight, and it's just the product of three children screaming at us for various things all at once, and us just being stressed.  But that's just life, it's neither of our doing.

I'm really fortunate and I know that.  She's just super easygoing, understands me and my shortcomings, and doesn't get worked up about them.  I hope I'm halfway as understanding with her as she is with me.  I believe I am.

 

[Captain Cranks]

Update:  Yesterday, we had our first session since I sent the counselor the email.  She addressed my email right off the bat, confirming what she had read and asking how we were feeling about things.  Both of us stated that we thought she spent too much time on something that isn't really an issue in our relationship.  I also mentioned that it felt more like discernment therapy rather than EFT therapy.  She responded to say that this was part of the process and since Christianity and anger with God was a part of my fiancee's past, it's something she wanted to dive into more deeply in her individual sessions.  I mentioned that she spent a considerable amount of my individual time on religion too which she agreed, but didn't really have an excuse other than to say that she wants to prepare us both for a potentially difficult conversation about our religious differences.  I wasn't really buying that this was her motive and even told her that I think her tact was poor if that was really her goal.  Ultimately, I think she let her own faith compromise her professional integrity but isn't willing to admit it or, perhaps more likely, this is how she feels things should be done.  The conversation ended with us agreeing to move forward with the EFT therapy and no longer focus on our religious differences.  She never apologized for anything that she had said, including the use of "Cafeteria Christian."   I didn't bring it up as I think my fiancee and I just wanted to move forward.

My opinion of the counselor is certainly tainted, but the work she did the rest of the session was exceptional and confirmed our decision to stick with her.  She does an excellent job of cutting to the core of a topic and is able to validate feelings on both sides of the debate.  I'm also impressed with how well she seems to understand our situation with just a limited amount of time spent talking with us.  As long as she stays on that track, which I assume she will after this last conversation, we'll be fine.       

 

[Zow]

No, just that when I turned around to see a bunch of my fraternity brothers snickering at me I realized that the communion in a catholic church was only for catholics and not former presbyterians turned godless heathen.  

There's a huuuuuuuuuge dogmatic distinction between what catholics believe communion is versus what the remainder of christian religions believe it is.  Also, catholics believe it's a mortal sin to receive communion without previously being absolved of other mortal sins.  

I'm not suggesting catholics are right or whatever but there really is clear dogmatic reasons for frowning on non-catholics taking communion. 

 

[Zow]

What do you do for communion when the time comes?  Always find that a bit awkward the few times I've attended a Catholic service. 

Just don't get out of your seat. There should be plenty of others not doing it.    

I don't practice catholicism anymore but every now and then I'll go with extended family for a holiday. I just remain in the pew when it's time for people to go up.

The first time I didn't go to communion my mom was not terribly pleased about it and asked why I didn't go.  I told her I could explain thoroughly why particular dogmatic rules actually preclude me from going and if I did that it'd be a sin, but that the short version is that I respect the church and its rule enough that I don't intend to essentially ignore them even though I no longer agreed with them.* She seemed okay with that. 

*I recognize this answer comes across as a bit conceited but my mom was aware I had significant advanced theological training and even studied with monks in college on issues of old testament interpretation and apologetics. 

 

[xulf]

Just don't get out of your seat. There should be plenty of others not doing it.    

I don't practice catholicism anymore but every now and then I'll go with extended family for a holiday. I just remain in the pew when it's time for people to go up.

The first time I didn't go to communion my mom was not terribly pleased about it and asked why I didn't go.  I told her I could explain thoroughly why particular dogmatic rules actually preclude me from going and if I did that it'd be a sin, but that the short version is that I respect the church and its rule enough that I don't intend to essentially ignore them even though I no longer agreed with them.* She seemed okay with that. 

*I recognize this answer comes across as a bit conceited but my mom was aware I had significant advanced theological training and even studied with monks in college on issues of old testament interpretation and apologetics. 

Look at me!

 

[NotSmart]

My opinion of the counselor is certainly tainted, but the work she did the rest of the session was exceptional and confirmed our decision to stick with her.  She does an excellent job of cutting to the core of a topic and is able to validate feelings on both sides of the debate.  I'm also impressed with how well she seems to understand our situation with just a limited amount of time spent talking with us.  As long as she stays on that track, which I assume she will after this last conversation, we'll be fine.       

From the discussion I don't think I would have gone back to that counselor, but from your update it's clear you made a great decision.