Cleveland Browns (13 Viewers)

[Soulfly3]

Chubb and potentially Darnold are the other "blue chippers"

My thoughts on Darnold are not hidden this year. He blew it for me (im exaggerating, but he did compared to what I expected)

But... If someone gets Darnold's #### together, Darnold was/is the next Andrew Luck (ability wise). 

 

[DocHolliday]

I haven't seen any reports that project Chubb at Pro Bowl status.  Inasmuch as we have good D-linemen, what makes him the preferred pick over a CB or S?

Its just my guess!  You act like I actually know something.  A great Dline means a ton in this league.  The Browns could have that by adding Chubb. 

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Exactly, which is why I am skeptical of the blue chipper label.  I have a hard time arguing with my eyes which said otherwise, but usually premium prospects flourish in at least some aspect.  He didn't.  Why? and does it matter?

I hate to agree with you but after putting this together I do.  He is not a blue chipper.  I thought he was till I did the digging.

Quentin Nelson is a monster, he is a blue chipper.

Obviously Saquon Barkley is a blue chip prospect.

I would consider Minka and Derwin as blue chippers after they blew up the Combine.

I wanted to think Bradley Chubb was but he can't be considered a blue chip prospect if he's 'ok' as an athlete.  I would not be upset if we came away with him but he's nowhere near Myles Garrett as a prospect.

None of the QBs are or can be considered blue chip prospects but we have to and will take one.

The biggest holes on the team after QB are CB and OLT.  No OLT is worth the #4 but their is talk of us taking Denzel Ward with the 4th pick and it just might happen.

 

[Soulfly3]

I wanted to think Bradley Chubb was but he can't be considered a blue chip prospect if he's 'ok' as an athlete... he's nowhere near Myles Garrett as a prospect.

I honestly have to disagree. 

No, he's not Garrett, but not many human beings are. But, he is closer than you think. He is truly a manimal, and I'd be more upset if we passed on him at 4, than I would if we passed on Barkley.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

I honestly have to disagree. 

No, he's not Garrett, but not many human beings are. But, he is closer than you think. He is truly a manimal, and I'd be more upset if we passed on him at 4, than I would if we passed on Barkley.

I said he's graded better than Ogbah and that I would not be upset if we got him but I don't consider him a blue chip prospect because he's nowhere near Myles and he isn't even Emmanuel Ogbah as an athlete. 

For me to consider a prospect a blue chipper they have to not only bring the goods on the field but they have to be an uber athlete and Bradley Chubb isn't a rare athlete, he's not.

 

[Soulfly3]

For me to consider a prospect a blue chipper they have to not only bring the goods on the field but they have to be an uber athlete and Bradley Chubb isn't a rare athlete, he's not.

So, you care more about combine numbers as opposed to what they do on the field?

Chubb dominates on the field. dominates.

 

[MAC_32]

there is talk of us taking Denzel Ward with the 4th pick and it just might happen.

This pick makes a ton of sense and if it is where they want to go then as much as I don't want to I think there is some justification to moving backwards.  Thing is, can they go all the way down to 12 or 15 and still get him?  This is where I think one of those teams outside the top 10 need to move into the top 10 in order for us to move down.  It still may not lock in Ward, but it ensures adequate backup plans in case he goes in front of us.

 

[Soulfly3]

BOTTOM LINE (Draft Profile)

 Chubb possesses high-end physical traits, years of production and the ability to play in a variety of positions in both odd and even fronts. Chubb returned to school last year and turned areas of improvement into areas of strength. His motor and athletic ability cause him to jump off the tape snap after snap and his play attributes and production should translate quickly as a pro. Chubb should be an early pick, early starter and multi-time Pro Bowler.

- NFL.com Lance Zierlein

... That underlined part.

 

[MAC_32]

So, you care more about combine numbers as opposed to what they do on the field?

If you want a good discussion please don't go down this hyperbole filled path.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

So, you care more about combine numbers as opposed to what they do on the field?

Chubb dominates on the field. dominates.

Come on Soul.  Seriously.  I said he brings the goods on the field and I would not be upset if we got him but I don't consider him a blue chip prospect because for me to label someone a blue chip prospect they have to bring the goods AND be an uber athlete.  He's not a blue chip prospect in my books.  He's not an uber athlete and yeah I do consider athleticism.  A guy has it or they don't.  Chubb doesn't have uber athleticism.  He's a legit first rounder and a top prospect that I would not be upset to get but he's not an uber athlete.

 

[Soulfly3]

That's fair.

I just watch more college than I do NFL (it's just a better product) and there are some guys I just fall in love with.

Chubb one of them. Mayfield one of them. Jimmy G was my #1 ranked QB in college his year as well. 

Not always right, but I feel good when I say someone will pan out. Doesn;t always go that way, but I am 100% on board w Chubb at 4

 

[Bracie Smathers]

This pick makes a ton of sense and if it is where they want to go then as much as I don't want to I think there is some justification to moving backwards.  Thing is, can they go all the way down to 12 or 15 and still get him?  This is where I think one of those teams outside the top 10 need to move into the top 10 in order for us to move down.  It still may not lock in Ward, but it ensures adequate backup plans in case he goes in front of us.

No.  

Ward is gone in the top 8 to 10, if he lasts that long.

Minka and Derwin tested out as legit blue chippers but it is a projection to moving them outside.  They are bigger and have longer reach than Ward and man those guys can move and are uber athletes.  It is 'very-likely' they could make the move and be even better than Ward but Ward is going before them.

 

[MAC_32]

but I am 100% on board w Chubb at 4

...but is that better than Denzel Ward + at least an additional #1?

 

[Bracie Smathers]

...but is that better than Denzel Ward + at least an additional #1?

Nope.  

 

[MAC_32]

No.  

Ward is gone in the top 8 to 10, if he lasts that long.

Minka and Derwin tested out as legit blue chippers but it is a projection to moving them outside.  They are bigger and have longer reach than Ward and man those guys can move and are uber athletes.  It is 'very-likely' they could make the move and be even better than Ward but Ward is going before them.

Unlike at QB, I think this is a case where they can move to a spot and be comfortable with anyone of three players.  A preference?  Absolutely, but there's some flexibility here.  I fully expect Gregg Williams to misuse whichever one is picked so they're all 19 and beyond prospects, but all three of them are worthwhile top 10 picks and there's a strong likelihood at least one of them is available in that 8-10 range.  But after?  That's dicey.

 

[Soulfly3]

...but is that better than Denzel Ward + at least an additional #1?

Well, considering we have no idea if we'd get Ward or not pending on where we move...

Come to think of it, no. Regardless, no. 

I really, really like Chubb. He and Garrett would transform this team, imo

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Unlike at QB, I think this is a case where they can move to a spot and be comfortable with anyone of three players.  A preference?  Absolutely, but there's some flexibility here.  I fully expect Gregg Williams to misuse whichever one is picked, but all three of them are worthwhile top 10 picks and there's a strong likelihood at least one of them is available in that 8-10 range.  But after?  That's dicey.

The kid we got from Green Bay is the new 'Angel' at FS and Peppers is being moved to his natural SS position but we lost our best CB in Mac which created a hole.  The kid we got from Oakland is not good, he's not.  We can build the best D-Line in the world but if we can't cover outside QBs are gonna peck us to death and dump it off and negate the pass rush.

We really need a #1 CB with length and reach.

Check out my mock because I project the trade-down with Buffalo where we get a guy who I think can fill that role.  

https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/765385-st-pattys-day-mock-edit-for-jetcolt-trade/

 

[pantherclub]

So, you care more about combine numbers as opposed to what they do on the field?

Chubb dominates on the field. dominates.

literally unstoppable 

 

[Bobcat10]

Can get CB (not Ward) and LT in those Buffalo spots probably.  Wouldn't be horrible, but leaning towards us using #4, unless it's Barkley then they best trade.

Also not sure I'm even engaging Buffalo if they aren't ponying up three #1s.  

 

[ghostguy123]

Why would the Bills do that to get QB4?

Well, some people think there are 4 QBs ranked about the same, so it's more like QB 1-D

 

[ghostguy123]

Who are the targets at 12? 22? How much of a drop off is that from the guys available (sans Barkley) at 4?  And my opinion on their 2019 #1 depends heavily on those first three picks.

At 12 either a DB or DE I would think.  At 22 I could see one of the RBs.  Future 1st who knows, that pick could be really anywhere

 

[ghostguy123]

NOOOO.  Need studs.  Stay put and take one.

So then trade up from 12 to 6 with Indy.  I think they would clearly entertain that.  

 

[ghostguy123]

...but is that better than Denzel Ward + at least an additional #1?

no

 

[daveR]

I can promise you that a Cleveland Steamer sounds optimal to Josh Allen in each scenario.

Cool!  Put him at the bottom & work up.

 

[Grahamburn]

Don't overthink it.  Put Chubb on a defensive line with Garrett and this defense will own the AFC.  I hate to say it because I want him to fall to #7, but you guys have got to stop going all "smartest guys in the room" at the top of the draft every year.  Chubb is a stud.  He'll make the entire back end look like Pro Bowlers.

In fact, your GM should be thinking about trading UP after the #1 and #4 to grab a top DB with all of the pick firepower they have.

 

[Soulfly3]

Don't overthink it.  Put Chubb on a defensive line with Garrett and this defense will own the AFC.  I hate to say it because I want him to fall to #7, but you guys have got to stop going all "smartest guys in the room" at the top of the draft every year.  Chubb is a stud.  He'll make the entire back end look like Pro Bowlers.

In fact, your GM should be thinking about trading UP after the #1 and #4 to grab a top DB with all of the pick firepower they have.

no, we have to acquire more picks so we look cool.

 

[ghostguy123]

Don't overthink it.  Put Chubb on a defensive line with Garrett and this defense will own the AFC.  I hate to say it because I want him to fall to #7, but you guys have got to stop going all "smartest guys in the room" at the top of the draft every year.  Chubb is a stud.  He'll make the entire back end look like Pro Bowlers.

In fact, your GM should be thinking about trading UP after the #1 and #4 to grab a top DB with all of the pick firepower they have.

I can almost guarantee we will be trading back up into the 1st.  If we do stay at 1 and 4 and then move 33/35/64 up to say 9 or 10 for one of the Chubb, Barkley, Ward, Fitzpatrick guys then I just might be on board with doing that.

Personally, I want to trade down from 4 in a deal that makes sense (aka us "winning") because I think it is a better allocation of those resources since this is essentially year 1 of the rebuild.  The last 2 years were the tear down.  

 

[Bracie Smathers]

I've been on the fence but this does it for me.

We're taking Darnold #1.

--------------------------------

NFL media analyst Daniel Jeremiah ranks USC QB Sam Darnold as the top quarterback prospect of the last three years.

Darnold comes in just ahead of former North Dakota State/current Philadelphia Eagles quarterback Carson Wentz, with Jeremiah saying that Darnold's durability and level of competition giving him the slight edge. Darnold (6'3/221) had an inconsistent redshirt sophomore season, but it seems the flashes of brilliance he's shown over the last few years are just too tough to ignore for most analysts, including Jeremiah. It'd be a major upset if he didn't go in the first five picks.

Source: NFL.com

Mar 19 - 6:43 PM

 

[MAC_32]

Don't overthink it.  Put Chubb on a defensive line with Garrett and this defense will own the AFC.  I hate to say it because I want him to fall to #7, but you guys have got to stop going all "smartest guys in the room" at the top of the draft every year.  Chubb is a stud.  He'll make the entire back end look like Pro Bowlers.

In fact, your GM should be thinking about trading UP after the #1 and #4 to grab a top DB with all of the pick firepower they have.

All that ammo is why I don't see moving back to 12 or 15. But 8ish and add a future 1? Different story. Just depends on how they feel about Chubb.

 

[Bobcat10]

Well, some people think there are 4 QBs ranked about the same, so it's more like QB 1-D

C’mon, maaaaaaaan

 

[Thomas The Skank Engine]

So then trade up from 12 to 6 with Indy.  I think they would clearly entertain that.  

or stop with all the shenanigans and pick a dude

 

[Bobcat10]

Don't overthink it.  Put Chubb on a defensive line with Garrett and this defense will own the AFC.  I hate to say it because I want him to fall to #7, but you guys have got to stop going all "smartest guys in the room" at the top of the draft every year.  Chubb is a stud.  He'll make the entire back end look like Pro Bowlers.

In fact, your GM should be thinking about trading UP after the #1 and #4 to grab a top DB with all of the pick firepower they have.

Agree, but not having 3.01 in my back pocket is what makes me hesitant of trading back up. Maybe trade two of the three 2nds to get back into the teens for a player top 5-8 on your board that you’re confident won’t be around at 2.01. I’m also more in favor of this option if they go QB-Saquon out of the gate (which I think is a mistake). 

 

[ghostguy123]

or stop with all the shenanigans and pick a dude

Yeah, with the pick we acquired in a trade

 

[MAC_32]

Agree, but not having 3.01 in my back pocket is what makes me hesitant of trading back up. Maybe trade two of the three 2nds to get back into the teens for a player top 5-8 on your board that you’re confident won’t be around at 2.01. I’m also more in favor of this option if they go QB-Saquon out of the gate (which I think is a mistake). 

I don't think he will do it, but move back from 4, stay in the top 10, and add a one. Then move 33 for a future one. And move up from 64 before the bottom fals out. 

This gets four top 50 guys this year plus three ones in the holster next year. 

 

[mr fancypants]

Looking at Bracie's St. Patty's mock brought back something I remember reading about  right before the senior bowl. It was being reported that Dorsey created quite a stir by setting up a 40 minute unscheduled meeting with DE Marcus Davenport . Might be the target in a trade down.. 

https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/Bolt/Report-NFL-teams-chafed-by-Browns-interest-in-Marcus-Davenport-114169627

 

[Riversco]

For the record, I think Darnold is a bust.  Baker Mayfield will be a franchise QB.  Josh Rosen, depends on if he can get along with his teammates.  Josh Allen will be a bust.

 

[Titletown_Favres]

Since CLE signed QB Taylor I think they should have made these moves:

- pass on bringing in RB Hyde - get RB in draft

- traded down 1.01 to 1.06 with Jets (need QB) for a haul

- draft OG Nelson with 1.06 (or DE Chubb)

- trade 1.04 to Bills (need QB) - should get their later 1st plus a bunch more

- later in 1st/2nd with multiple picks 2018 draft get a QB Lamar Jackson or Mason Rudolph and get your RB in a rich class.

Barkley RB is a stud but CLE needs much more .... imo there is no Watson/Wentz/Goff type QB in this draft (over-rated)

my 2 cents !

 

[Soulfly3]

imo there is no Watson/Wentz/Goff type QB in this draft (over-rated

Have Mayfield ranked well above these guys out of college, and if this was last season, Darnold would have been in another universe than the above listed guys.

 

[Thomas The Skank Engine]

Since CLE signed QB Taylor I think they should have made these moves:

- pass on bringing in RB Hyde - get RB in draft

- traded down 1.01 to 1.06 with Jets (need QB) for a haul

- draft OG Nelson with 1.06 (or DE Chubb)

- trade 1.04 to Bills (need QB) - should get their later 1st plus a bunch more

- later in 1st/2nd with multiple picks 2018 draft get a QB Lamar Jackson or Mason Rudolph and get your RB in a rich class.

Barkley RB is a stud but CLE needs much more .... imo there is no Watson/Wentz/Goff type QB in this draft (over-rated)

my 2 cents !

Start with picks 1 and 4 and end up with a guard (they have 2 good, highly paid guards already) and the 4th/5th best QB?

Horrific

 

[Titletown_Favres]

Joe Thomas did retire and these QB needy teams aka Jets and soon Bills are giving up the farm- so better to stockpile picks when you are Browns are need lot of players. If you don’t like the G pick then take Chubb. 

 

[Peak]

Joe Thomas did retire and these QB needy teams aka Jets and soon Bills are giving up the farm- so better to stockpile picks when you are Browns are need lot of players. If you don’t like the G pick then take Chubb. 

What does JT retiring have to do with a Guard?  He was the LT - and this draft is void of any really good LT prospects.

I like Tyrod, and he was one I touted for awhile.  I'm glad he's here.  But his role isn't going to stop me from getting the best QB at 1.01.  This team has been stockpiling picks for years.  No need to do that now.  I'd rather stay at 1 and 4, grab the best QB and Non-QB player in the draft and move one.  If we trade back into the first using our 2.1, so be it.  I could entertain a trade down with 1.4 if it's a great deal.  But no way do I trade two of the top 4 picks in this years draft, which could equate to the top QB and top non-QB of this draft class.  It's a rare occurrence, and not something I would give up lightly if I were GM.

 

[ghostguy123]

Since CLE signed QB Taylor I think they should have made these moves:

- pass on bringing in RB Hyde - get RB in draft

- traded down 1.01 to 1.06 with Jets (need QB) for a haul

- draft OG Nelson with 1.06 (or DE Chubb)

- trade 1.04 to Bills (need QB) - should get their later 1st plus a bunch more

- later in 1st/2nd with multiple picks 2018 draft get a QB Lamar Jackson or Mason Rudolph and get your RB in a rich class.

Barkley RB is a stud but CLE needs much more .... imo there is no Watson/Wentz/Goff type QB in this draft (over-rated)

my 2 cents !

Pass on a QB cause we have Tyrod Taylor???  Then draft a guard at 6 when we have two good guards on multi year deals??  To put it nicely, that is terrible logic even before factoring in that we are talking about TYROD TAYLOR here, and also how god awful value it is to draft a guard at 6, then drafting a QB people wanted to be a WR instead.

Even if they Browns somehow decide to not draft a QB high this year, this is still a terrible alternative.  

 

[ghostguy123]

I don't think he will do it, but move back from 4, stay in the top 10, and add a one. Then move 33 for a future one. And move up from 64 before the bottom fals out. 

This gets four top 50 guys this year plus three ones in the holster next year. 

QB at 1

DB or DE at 8-10 (bears or Raiders?  Not the 49ers)

maybe RB or OL at 33 or 35

trade the other pick for a 4th or so this year and 2019 1st, ideally from a team with a good chance to land us a high pick

moving up from 64 to 40s or so for RB or OL or WR

Depending on the teams and the 2019 1sts, yes please.  

It really is hard to fault a strategy where we draft at 1,10,35,45,and have three 1sts next year.  You will have the "draft studs now, we need studs, quit getting future picks" crowd, though that same crowd currently loves pick 4 right now, and would love those extra picks next year. 

Spreading out that draft capital over several years is a good idea.

I guess the bottom line is, they can't go wrong just drafting at 1,4,33,35 either unless they draft busts.  

 

[ghostguy123]

What does JT retiring have to do with a Guard?  He was the LT - and this draft is void of any really good LT prospects.

I like Tyrod, and he was one I touted for awhile.  I'm glad he's here.  But his role isn't going to stop me from getting the best QB at 1.01.  This team has been stockpiling picks for years.  No need to do that now.  I'd rather stay at 1 and 4, grab the best QB and Non-QB player in the draft and move one.  If we trade back into the first using our 2.1, so be it.  I could entertain a trade down with 1.4 if it's a great deal.  But no way do I trade two of the top 4 picks in this years draft, which could equate to the top QB and top non-QB of this draft class.  It's a rare occurrence, and not something I would give up lightly if I were GM.

Stockpiling picks isn't as bad as stockpiling picks AND not spending any of the salary cap, which is what we have done, which is why we had no chance to win many games.    Dorsey is the kind of guy who will go after good free agents or trade for players that need large contracts that the other teams can't afford.  I hope we go into EVERY season for the foreseeable future with two future 1sts (ours and someone elses).  MAC's idea is even more extreme, but is not a bad idea THIS year, then starting 2020 always have two 1sts prior to the start of the draft.  

Edit to Mac's plan.  Maybe just draft at 1 and 4 (our top QB and top non QB), then trade 33 and 35 for future 1sts. Use the 4ths we get this year to add to pick 64 to move up to whatever that lets us move up to.

 

[MAC_32]

QB at 1

DB or DE at 8-10 (bears or Raiders?  Not the 49ers)

maybe RB or OL at 33 or 35

trade the other pick for a 4th or so this year and 2019 1st, ideally from a team with a good chance to land us a high pick

moving up from 64 to 40s or so for RB or OL or WR

Depending on the teams and the 2019 1sts, yes please.  

It really is hard to fault a strategy where we draft at 1,10,35,45,and have three 1sts next year.  You will have the "draft studs now, we need studs, quit getting future picks" crowd, though that same crowd currently loves pick 4 right now, and would love those extra picks next year. 

Spreading out that draft capital over several years is a good idea.

I guess the bottom line is, they can't go wrong just drafting at 1,4,33,35 either unless they draft busts.  

One note with the bolded - I get that tackle is now a need but you cannot force what isn't there.  I'm no OL eval pro, but the learning curve from college to pro has gotten steeper in recent years and everywhere I read this crop isn't that good.  OL play league-wide is down, which will only cause some in the market to reach even more at the expense of other positions.  It isn't going to leave anyone feeling comfortable about the line, but if BPA dictates a player at another position then pick that guy.  i.e. initially I wasn't really on board with making LB a priority, but given the quality of the crop I'm there now.  Schobert is a quality player, but let's be honest - we can stand to upgrade.

 

[ghostguy123]

I could pretty easily get on board with NOT drafting OL this year in the top 3-4 rounds.  

Wondering if there are any quality let tackles on the trade market out there.

 

[Peak]

I hope we go into EVERY season for the foreseeable future with two future 1sts (ours and someone elses).

Having 2 1st round picks is nice to have, but planning to go into every season with 2 1st round picks seems far-fetched to me.  At some point you stop looking for talent and look for reasons to trade back just to set up the next year to have 2 first round picks.  To your earlier point, stockpiling them and not using them is worth what exactly?  Sashi stockpiled picks and $$ in preparation for this type of dive for talent.  That FO was up front that it was going to take two years to wipe the slate clean and start to rebuild correctly.  This is the third year of that process and to me we're right on track.  Sashi did well in being Scrooge McDuck these last two seasons and stockpiled and prepared like it was the end of the NFL world.  Now Dorsey and team have the benefit of that and used it to their full advantage, which I am grateful for as a fan as it looks like they are going after talent to help the team win and move forward.

But at some point we need to stop looking to grab next year's first round pick if it means passing on a talented player now.  This is one of those years.

 

[ghostguy123]

But at some point we need to stop looking to grab next year's first round pick if it means passing on a talented player now.  This is one of those years.

Then get one with picks 33 or 35............

 

[daveR]

Having 2 1st round picks is nice to have, but planning to go into every season with 2 1st round picks seems far-fetched to me.  At some point you stop looking for talent and look for reasons to trade back just to set up the next year to have 2 first round picks.  To your earlier point, stockpiling them and not using them is worth what exactly?  Sashi stockpiled picks and $$ in preparation for this type of dive for talent.  That FO was up front that it was going to take two years to wipe the slate clean and start to rebuild correctly.  This is the third year of that process and to me we're right on track.  Sashi did well in being Scrooge McDuck these last two seasons and stockpiled and prepared like it was the end of the NFL world.  Now Dorsey and team have the benefit of that and used it to their full advantage, which I am grateful for as a fan as it looks like they are going after talent to help the team win and move forward.

But at some point we need to stop looking to grab next year's first round pick if it means passing on a talented player now.  This is one of those years.

Because teams fall in love with players, they will overspend and you can do both.  That is, someone will be willing to give up their #1 this year and next for Barkley, say.  This allows us to take a top-20 talent this year and next.

 

[beer 30]

Having 2 1st round picks is nice to have, but planning to go into every season with 2 1st round picks seems far-fetched to me.  At some point you stop looking for talent and look for reasons to trade back just to set up the next year to have 2 first round picks.  To your earlier point, stockpiling them and not using them is worth what exactly?  Sashi stockpiled picks and $$ in preparation for this type of dive for talent.  That FO was up front that it was going to take two years to wipe the slate clean and start to rebuild correctly.  This is the third year of that process and to me we're right on track.  Sashi did well in being Scrooge McDuck these last two seasons and stockpiled and prepared like it was the end of the NFL world.  Now Dorsey and team have the benefit of that and used it to their full advantage, which I am grateful for as a fan as it looks like they are going after talent to help the team win and move forward.

But at some point we need to stop looking to grab next year's first round pick if it means passing on a talented player now.  This is one of those years.

Been saying this for a while and completely agree. use the picks to draft top talent, we've spent a decade trading down and have nothing to show for it. 4 of the top 35 players won't happen again for us for a long time. Draft them and prosper, quit coveting draft picks more than top talent.