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Cleveland Browns (19 Viewers)
- Thread starter wadegarrett
- Start date
No way does Haslem fire Hue for starting 0-4. It'd be nice, but there is a close to zero chance it would happen. Also, while likely an upgrade from Hue, Haley is nothing special himself. He's been run out of Arizona and Pittsburgh, mostly for poor red zone play calling, and being a personality issue, that both other coaches and players have complained about. It'd be like going from a F to a C-/D+ at best.
I'm sticking with 0-16, clean house, hopefully including the owner too, if any ever comes from his federal case.
What does loser mentality mean? Its not like they have gone 1-31 the last 2 years, because the fans didn't believe in them enough.
The hate of Hue is for a lot more than losing, its from seeing a guy who is clearly in over his head live down to expectations, and then take zero responsibility. He's failed upward, and I think even casual fans see that. Its something that happens in every line of work, and everyone hates that guy.
I really don't see any correlation between losing and destroying the will to win. Troy Aikman made a great point about it in the Eagles game. It didn't matter how bad they were, and they were the worst team in the NFL in 1988 and 1989, what mattered was they believed in Jimmy Johnson. I don't believe anybody believes in Hue Jackson, probably including Jackson himself.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
So Hue is starting Mayfield in game 4 of the preseason. How is that a good idea?
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
QBs who are just signed specifically for that game or who aren’t going to make the team play in that game, not no. 1 overall picks.
dhockster
Footballguy
Heaven forbid they give their #1 overall pick more game reps. I wouldn't play him the whole game due to injury concern, but the more he plays, the more comfortable he will get in the pocket.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I think it's a mistake and a risk but will concede that perhaps it's not as bad as I'm making it out to be.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
History shows that every first round QB will start at some point this season so it would be wise to provide reps.
Of the past 54 QBs taken in the 1st round only 3 didn't start at least one game in their rookie season, Aaron Rodgers, Jake Locker, and Brady Quinn.
Twelve of the 13 quarterbacks taken in the Top 5 in the previous 10 drafts had at least 12 starts as a rookie. Only Jared Goff (seven starts) didn't play at least three-quarters of his rookie season.
If recent history repeats itself Baker and the others will be starting at least 2/3rds of their rookie seasons.
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Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Well the fact that I do expect him to play this season would be why I wouldn't risk putting him out there with backup supporting players against opponents desperate to make an impression.
But like I said, I'm backing down from my stance a bit. I can see the other side of the argument.
DallasDMac
Footballguy
I doubt anyone is arguing that it is wise to provide him reps. I think everyone is arguing that it is very unwise to provide him those reps behind scrubs unlikely to make the team, thereby putting his health at risk.
The Man With No Name
Footballguy
His health is at risk every time he plays whether it's preseason or regular season
dhockster
Footballguy
Who are likely playing against defensive players who are scrubs unlikely to make the team. If he were playing against the other teams number 1 defense with scrubs in front of him, then I agree, do not play him. But that is not the case.
DallasDMac
Footballguy
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Green Bay traded down and picked up an extra 1st next year and are 'rumored' to be angling for Mack.
Here’s why Raiders, Khalil Mack are in contract stalemate with no end in sight
Mack isn't helping out the Raiders if he sits and he is going to sit so they have to seriously consider what helps them right now and future picks are nice but they would need a replacement for Mack and that is something that Green Bay cannot provide.
If Gruden got Jamie Collins AND an extra 1st and 2nd AND got extra salary cap to play with then it seems like the 'best possible' way out of a dead end stalemate.
We'd have to pay a ton and would not have premo picks next year but we'd still have a ton of salary cap.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Yes I want to trade for Mack.
No, I dont want to pay Collins and a 1st and 2nd for Mack and a 20 million dollar a year deal a week before the season starts.
No, I dont want to pay Collins and a 1st and 2nd for Mack and a 20 million dollar a year deal a week before the season starts.
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ghostguy123
Footballguy
I dont care what other teams do. Is it the best thing for the progression of Mayfield? Maybe yes, maybe no, but that is what matters, not what other teams do
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Why? Risk of losing playoffs if we make a deal for defensive MVP candidate?
We've got Kendricks who knows the D. Mack would get immediate work as designated pass rusher in sub packages and would get up to speed in goal line within two weeks.
We lead the NFL in unused salary cap and those picks are years away from contributing if they work out.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
You think if we get Mack we are likely to make the playoffs? I do not.
I mean, we might, but we still have Hue Jackson directing this horror-comedy here.
I would have been more on board with this a few weeks ago and also knowing we had a contract in place. I mean, the Raiders wont even pay hjm, so WE are gonna pay him AND give a 1st, 2nd, and Collins?
Certainly does NOT seem like his trade value is that high.
Collins and a 2nd? Seems more realistic.
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Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
MAC_32
Footballguy
Timing isn't right. Sacrificing future assets for a star to make a run at a title is something I am resistant to, but could get behind if we're in a window. We're not in one right now.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Khalil Mack's do not get traded.
27 year old two-time ALL-PRO's in their prime have never been traded in the history of the NFL and none have ever been in a contract dispute and missed games because no other player in the history of the NFL has ever been an ALL-PRO at two different positions.
Jamie Collins contract is turrible, he's not worth what we are paying him.
We have over $60 million in available cap space.
We have over $12 MORE than any other team in the league.
We are 'likely' not going to keep Collins around for the duration of his contract.
We can easily absorb a huge long-term contract with a huge up-front payout to make Collins very happy.
Myles on one side and Mack on the other means no team can double team Myles without opening up the backside and visa-versa.
I think the time to make a deal for Khalil Mack is if he ever gets to the open market and he won't unless we make a legit offer so a 1st and 2nd plus Jamie Collins is solid and would work for both sides.
Future picks mean nothing if you know you can get a Khalil Mack in his prime today IMHO.
MAC_32
Footballguy
I may be more receptive if Jimmy had replaced the coaching staff, but since he didn't I'm not. I think the optimistic range of outcomes has 2019 as the transition year and we're ready to compete come 2020. So I have no interest in moving meaningful future picks for starts right now. Play the hand then re-assess in January.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Hue does not stop you from trying to acquire Khalil Mack.
2016 Defensive Player of the Year worth every penny given his prodigious production
MAC_32
Footballguy
He doesn't, but a move like this hinders roster construction for the next group. Yes, that group would be excited to see Myles on one side and Mack on the other, but then they're told their only other means of improving the team are via free agency. Woof. I don't think that's a good idea unless we're in a window right now. Too much changes from the beginning of a season to the end, so what are not holes right now will become holes later. If he's available after the season? Different subject. Not now though.
DallasDMac
Footballguy
I'd say if 31 teams do it one way and one (that didn't win a game last year) is doing it another, that it's pretty safe to assume which ones are doing it the right way and which one isn't.If the other teams jumped off a cliff, should the Browns?
DallasDMac
Footballguy
We agree on what you just said, 100%. I think we disagree quite a bit on what is best for the progression of Mayfield. If they play him behind the makeshift line and he comes out unscathed, you get to say "See? Worked out." If he gets the snot knocked out of him and, god forbid, ends up with a serious injury, then what? Does your tune change? Do you just write it off as "Injuries happen in preseason?" I just hope we don't have to have that discussion later on because I think it's a totally avoidable scenario.
dhockster
Footballguy
I think most coaches are more concerned with the optics of a player getting hurt in the last preseason game, rather than the chance that they actually get hurt in the last preseason game (i.e. too many coaches make decisions that make them criticism proof rather than make the right decision. that is why so many coaches shy away from going for it on 4th down even when it makes sense to. They are risk averse). Not a big deal whether Mayfield plays one half or the last preseason game or not, I just think the best way to develop a player, especially a QB, is to give them reps on the field. Call me crazy.
daveR
Footballguy
amnesiac
beer is good
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
beer 30
Footballguy
Some of you old timers feel free to jump and refresh my memory but I think we have another first for the Brown's. I'm continually astounded, year after year, by the teams ability to surprise me with scenarios I would not have thought of in a month of Sundays. Hat tip boysAaaaand Kendricks is gone for Insider Trading
Time to sign Mack!
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Color me crazy, but this seems like it might be a red flag regarding Mack's personality if he isn't on the field week 1 "only" making like 13 million. Just saying.
Whats he gonna make, like 17 million a year? Plus potential high 1st and 2nd in 2019? It's quite an investment. Not some no brainer move, at all.
That said, if they did make that move, I wouldnt be MAD. I simply do not think he would cost that much in trade given the contact he will have to sign.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
So we have insider trading and credit fraud.
Is Kendricks even gonna be suspended for that? Cmon
Is Kendricks even gonna be suspended for that? Cmon
beer 30
Footballguy
Well the NFL might sluff it off but I think Uncle Sam has other ideas for Mr. Kendricks future whereabouts
DallasDMac
Footballguy
Are you implying that the first team o-line sat the whole pre-season? Because that's the only way this question makes sense based on what I stated.
amnesiac
beer is good
Haslam will have to suspend him on principle to set a high moral stand... er, nevermind.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Can we trade for Aaron Donald, too?
daveR
Footballguy
So, then you're saying only Mayfield should miss preseason because he's the only one too valuable to risk injuries?
You said, " I just hope we don't have to have that discussion later on because I think it's a totally avoidable scenario". Are you saying injuries are avoidable when the best linemen are on the field? Are you saying that no other team will have their top draft pick playing during the preseason? Are you using this occasion to bash the coach because you hate him? Are you saying that you value safety over playing time? Are you saying that Mayfield can't benefit from playing?
The Man With No Name
Footballguy
Browns have way less salary cap space next season and 4th least in 2020 as of now. Not sure how they managed to do that, and The Patriots have the 3rd most available that same year..
But getting Mack would be nice especially if they could sign him long term.
But getting Mack would be nice especially if they could sign him long term.
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Maybe they can get Mychal Kendricks to jiggle the salary cap accounting on his way out the door. He seems like he has a knack for that sort of thing.
mr fancypants
Footballguy
As Kendricks may have been just a mere pawn in the insider scheme, the real financial genius is Nassib reporting 10% returns on passbook savings LOL!!
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bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Wow hes facing 25 years in prison possibly?? He cant be the mastermind can he??? Insane
ghostguy123
Footballguy
MAC_32
Footballguy
Landry 14, Randall 9, Carrie 9, Hubbard 7, Hyde 6, Smith 5, Stanton 4, Mitchell 4. 58 just from this past March.
Dorsey is allergic to unspent $. A lot of that is not guaranteed though.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Kendricks released
The rotoworld blurb was a bit harsh towards cleveland, but accurate.
So now we trade for Mack and put us over the cap for 2020!!!!!
The rotoworld blurb was a bit harsh towards cleveland, but accurate.
So now we trade for Mack and put us over the cap for 2020!!!!!
