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Cleveland Browns (5 Viewers)

SO they want two 1sts?  No.  

I have changed my tune a bit on giving up a 1st and maybe a little more next year.  Even though he will command a huge deal, we do have a lot of cap space to absorb it, plus we arent gonna draft anyone like him.  Hell, we are lucky if we ever draft a guy who is still in the league in 3 years amirite? :missing:

But really, yeah, he is a stud.  

Go for it and pay a 1st.  Let's go all JAGS on people

 
Its funny how Mack is going to a different team every few days.  Remember that the Raiders haven't even had to franchise Mack yet.  He is entering the option year of his contract.  Mack will probably be on the field soon for a few reasons: 

  • He may want to base his contract on Donalds and Donald and the Rams are supposed to be close to agreeing to a contract.  
  • Mack loses $800K/game if he sits.  
  • The Raiders have control.  Mack is under contract this year and can be franchised for two years after.  
 
ghostguy123 said:
SO they want two 1sts?  No.  

I have changed my tune a bit on giving up a 1st and maybe a little more next year.  Even though he will command a huge deal, we do have a lot of cap space to absorb it, plus we arent gonna draft anyone like him.  Hell, we are lucky if we ever draft a guy who is still in the league in 3 years amirite? :missing:

But really, yeah, he is a stud.  

Go for it and pay a 1st.  Let's go all JAGS on people
Click to expand...
The Raiders and Mack haven't had good faith negotiations since February, he isn't going to sign just because the season starts and he's facing fines of over 800 K.

Gruden has final say on this.

The Oakland front office has already thrown in the towel.

When Gruden's defense starts to bleed he's going to see the value of getting a guy like Jamie Collins.

Two first is the stupid pie-in-the-sky asking price.  

Green Bay has two first round picks but they are going to be late in the first and that is a 'sucky' value, pure crap IMHO for a Khalil Mack.

If Gruden has any grey matter left he'd jump at the Browns 1st and 2nd PLUS Jamie Collins.

A team that has only won-1 game in the past two years VS two-1st from teams QB'b by A-Rod and Brees?  Even Chucky can figure that one out for himself.

Their are  four teams making serious inquiries/offers.  Don't be a Belichick taking a low-ball Jimmie Garroppolo offer and look like a schmuck Gruden.  

Deal with the Browns and get their 1st and 2nd and Jamie Collins. 

 
MAC_32 said:
When Gruden's defense starts to bleed he's going to see the value of signing a guy like Khalil Mack.
Click to expand...
From what I've gathered on the Mack holdout from Oakland's POV is that the front office holds control of the purse strings but Gruden has final say on the roster.

Even if he wants Mack the front office hasn't had meaningful negotiations.

Unless this whole thing hinges on what Aaron Donald gets then the Raider FO isn't going to cave no matter how much and loud Chucky screams.

It sounds like a true stonewalled situation.

I offered what I consider 'the best' out.

I really think this is a unique opportunity but we'll see if the Aaron Donald signing has an impact, it could be what everyone was waiting on.

 
Squabbling over a couple million when you can get 60 million right now is just so stupid.  

One slip on the stairs or poor footing in a workout and a torn ACL screws you.  Or one of the million other life things that can happen.

Baffles me every time

 
DocHolliday said:
Its funny how Mack is going to a different team every few days.  Remember that the Raiders haven't even had to franchise Mack yet.  He is entering the option year of his contract.  Mack will probably be on the field soon for a few reasons: 

  • He may want to base his contract on Donalds and Donald and the Rams are supposed to be close to agreeing to a contract.  
  • Mack loses $800K/game if he sits.  
  • The Raiders have control.  Mack is under contract this year and can be franchised for two years after.  
Click to expand...
There's zero from any trusted info guy saying this is a thing.

Rapaport and Breer both say no. The two 1st report is not a report at all. This is all Bleacher Report clickbait jibber jabber for suckers.

Be smarter than that, sheeple.

Everyone saying 'from trusted source' is no one with any history of having trusted sources. Fact.

 
massraider said:
There's zero from any trusted info guy saying this is a thing.

Rapaport and Breer both say no. The two 1st report is not a report at all. This is all Bleacher Report clickbait jibber jabber for suckers.

Be smarter than that, sheeple.

Everyone saying 'from trusted source' is no one with any history of having trusted sources. Fact.
Click to expand...
I agree with your overall point, but Rapaport a trusted source?  Come on, now.

 
MAC_32 said:
I agree with your overall point, but Rapaport a trusted source?  Come on, now.
Click to expand...
I made no claims about Rapaport.  I simply said he, and Albert Breer, both said not happening.  

Rapaport is no Shefter, but he is more legit than ANYONE claiming he's on the block.  

The Khalil Mack holdout has been going on for months now. Mack did not report to mandatory minicamp, voluntary minicamp, OTAs, training camp, any preseason games or the Raiders 4th of July barbecue. However, contracts take time, especially for someone like Mack who is arguably the best defensive player in football and certainly the best player in the AFC West.

But for the last few weeks we’ve heard countless rumors about Khalil Mack being traded. Where did they come from? Do they have any validity?

Let’s start with Ground Zero.

There had been a few rumblings, mostly from New York area football blogs, that the Jets were looking to add an edge rusher, namely Khalil Mack. And then there was this article from Bleacher Report that said,

“The odds of such a trade were zero percent a few months back, but now they are 20 to 30 percent and increasing every day, one NFC team executive said.

“There’s a feeling the Raiders are open for business when it comes to Mack,” the exec said.”

The fact that this comes from the den of scum and villainy known as Bleacher Report should tell you all you need to know about its validity, not to mention the fact that the story is “an unnamed exec from an unnamed team has a feeling”. I had a feeling once, but it turned out I had too many burritos.

And there was this:

Eric Galko✔@OptimumScouting

#Raiders have put Khalil Mack on the trade block. #Jets, #Packers #Giants (among others) are interested.@JuMosq examines why Oakland’s in this position, where he’ll end up, and how gambling lines play into it all $$$:http://www.optimumscouting.com/news/on-khalil-mack-realistic-trade-suitors-and-prop-od …

Okay first of all, who the #### is Eric Galko? Nobody had ever heard of him or his little scouting company before this tweet made the rounds, but it provides scouting services and consulting. They’re not a news outlet. This was really where things started to get crazy.

Every football blog in existence then went off the deep end speculating about how their team could get Khalil Mack. Possible suitors, if you believe that there are any, include the Packers, Bears, Jets, Bills, Pottsville Maroons, New York Yankees and CSKA Moscow.

Three days ago, Yahoo! Sports came out with this article about the Mack trade saga. It includes the following passage:

“Per a source with knowledge of the situation, the Raiders haven’t slammed the door on the possibility of trading the 2016 defensive player of the year. That said, the Raiders are being coy with the teams that have inquired.

“Recent reports have indicated as many as a dozen teams kicking tires on a possible trade. Four teams, we’re told, are exploring the possibility very seriously.”

And much of this came after an August 21 report from Sports Illustrated that quoted Albert Breer, saying:

“If the Oakland Raiders are going to ship their best player out of town, it’s not going to happen in the near future. While there were rumblings that a Khalil Mack trade could be a potential option for the Raiders, those opinions have quickly been shot down as of late.”

Most recently, MMQB’s Albert Breer broke down the idea of a Mack trade and did so as bluntly as possible. According to Breer, inquiries about acquiring the 2016 Defensive Player of the year “have been quickly met with a no.”

Breer’s insight on the situation goes beyond just the fact that the Raiders aren’t interested in moving Mack currently, though. He also lays out an interesting scenario for any potential suitor, which includes not only giving up a massive amount to acquire him but then the huge contract a team would have to lay out immediately after.

“That club trading for him would have to give up not just premium draft capital, but also a market-busting contract for the 2016 Defensive Player of the Year.

“There’s not much of a chance that another team would give up pick-wise what it would take to get Mack without some sort of assurance that he’d be doing a long-term deal in his new home. And you can raise the fact that the franchise tag would be an option for that team, but that assumes Mack would report to a new home without a new deal, which seems unlikely.

“Is there a team out there willing to give up a first-round pick (and maybe another pick), plus more than $20 million per year, with $60 million or so fully guaranteed, to get Mack? Maybe there is. He’s an incredible player, but that’s a hefty price for anyone who doesn’t play quarterback.”

And Ian Rappaport went on the Rich Eisen Show this week and made it very clear the Raiders are not interested in trading away Mack.

You see folks, ever since you, the consumer, stopped actually paying for sports journalism, it has become something completely degenerate and foul. Modern sports (and regular) journalism is ad-based, which means the more people who click on your page, the more money you make. The ad doesn’t care if what you wrote is true or not, it only wants more readers. And the best way to get readers is to tell them what their cognitive bias wants to read about. Happy lies sell far better than inconvenient truths. It’s known as clickbait, and I will have none of it.

The bottom line here is that there’s been a ton of speculation, none of which is based on any sort of verifiable truth or reasonable conclusions from any evidence whatsoever, that teams are lining up to trade for Khalil Mack. There is no evidence of any kind from any source that the Raiders are interested in any way in trading Mack, and in fact trading for him and signing him to the contract he deserves would be so cost-prohibitive that there are few teams for whom such a move makes sense. But that doesn’t stop journalists with questionable motives from spreading a false narrative.

UPDATE: In the hours since this article was posted, an article went up on NFL.com which completely encapsulates the issues the article speaks about.

The headline reads, “Raiders want at least two first-round picks for Mack”.

The actual story is... about something else. Seriously, read the headline and then read the actual story. And consider the fact that many people will just read the headline and not the story, and draw conclusions from that.
Click to expand...
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000952201/article/raiders-want-at-least-2-firstround-picks-for-mack

The above story is where the two 1st round pick talk is coming from.  Read the article.  Ask yourself, how did I get here?

 
massraider said:
I made no claims about Rapaport.  I simply said he, and Albert Breer, both said not happening.  

Rapaport is no Shefter, but he is more legit than ANYONE claiming he's on the block.  

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000952201/article/raiders-want-at-least-2-firstround-picks-for-mack

The above story is where the two 1st round pick talk is coming from.  Read the article.  Ask yourself, how did I get here?
Click to expand...
Schefter also gets used by teams and agents all the time - and like the others, sometimes he just makes stuff up too.  Read everything, believe nothing.  Because there's an equal 1/3 chance what you're reading/hearing is the truth, a team/agent using the media as a pawn, or the media just making something up.

What do we know?  Mack isn't there and neither side seems willing to budge right now.  But someone usually blinks.  Who will?  :shrug:  And anyone saying with any certainty doesn't really know.  They're either after clicks (media), want their money (Mack), or want to keep their money/make someone else pay out the nose (Raiders).  If anything comes from this between now and September 11th it'll probably be Labor Day give or take once the 53 has shaken itself out.

 
MAC_32 said:
Schefter also gets used by teams and agents all the time - and like the others, sometimes he just makes stuff up too.  Read everything, believe nothing.  Because there's an equal 1/3 chance what you're reading/hearing is the truth, a team/agent using the media as a pawn, or the media just making something up.

What do we know?  Mack isn't there and neither side seems willing to budge right now.  But someone usually blinks.  Who will?  :shrug:  And anyone saying with any certainty doesn't really know.  They're either after clicks (media), want their money (Mack), or want to keep their money/make someone else pay out the nose (Raiders).  If anything comes from this between now and September 11th it'll probably be Labor Day give or take once the 53 has shaken itself out.
Click to expand...
Pretty sure sure you're agreeing with me here.

 
Gruden absolutely could be going into negotiations with two 1sts as his opening offer. That doesn’t mean that’s where his squeal point is on making a deal.  It could also be that OAK has zero desire in a trade and thus is responding to calls with a way too rich stance to discourage incessant interrogitories.  

Geez, how many times do we need to discuss how these negotiations work?  And the sheeple comment?  Completely unneeded - unless if course you’ve got first hand insight into the trade conversations and know that the opening position by Gruden is substantially lower than that.  Is that the case?

.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Bronco Billy said:
Gruden absolutely could be going into negotiations with two 1sts as his opening offer. That doesn’t mean that’s where his squeal point is on making a deal.  It could also be that OAK has zero desire in a trade and thus is responding to calls with a way too rich stance to discourage incessant interrogitories.  

Geez, how many times do we need to discuss how these negotiations work?  And the sheeple comment?  Completely unneeded - unless if course you’ve got first hand insight into the trade conversations and know that the opening position by Gruden is substantially lower than that.  Is that the case?

.
Click to expand...
What negotiations? What trade negotiations are you referring to? The ones that no one has said are taking place?

I just showed the genesis of the two #1s talk. It was an NFLN guy speculating that's where the price would start. That's it. That becomes:

"RAIDERS ASKING FOR TWO FIRST ROUNDERS FOR MACK"

It being retweeted over and over makes is no more legit.

I like reading the Cleveland thread, good posters and a fun team. Several of them are discussing a trade stance that I don't believe is there. 

It Is it POSSIBLE that NFLN guy guessed right, and there are talks happening, and that's the price?  Yes. Totally possible.

My point is: there's no legit source saying this is the prices, or he's on the block. A quick search of the internet confirms that. Hence the sheeple comment. Hope you can recover.?

 
massraider said:
What negotiations? What trade negotiations are you referring to? The ones that no one has said are taking place?

I just showed the genesis of the two #1s talk. It was an NFLN guy speculating that's where the price would start. That's it. That becomes:

"RAIDERS ASKING FOR TWO FIRST ROUNDERS FOR MACK"

It being retweeted over and over makes is no more legit.

I like reading the Cleveland thread, good posters and a fun team. Several of them are discussing a trade stance that I don't believe is there. 

It Is it POSSIBLE that NFLN guy guessed right, and there are talks happening, and that's the price?  Yes. Totally possible.

My point is: there's no legit source saying this is the prices, or he's on the block. A quick search of the internet confirms that. Hence the sheeple comment. Hope you can recover.?
Click to expand...


So you really believe no GM in the NFL had made a call to OAK inquiring about Mack?  And you state that with certainty - yet you’re not even citing the reporters who put forth the information, including one who states he confirmed the report.

Hard to believe you have the temerity to insult anyone else here.  I’m going to take Twain’s advice.  Have a great day.

.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Bronco Billy said:
So you really believe no GM in the NFL had made a call to OAK inquiring about Mack?.
Click to expand...
No. You are now applying positions to me.

I don't believe that all.  I'm sure people have called.  I'm saying the narrative everyone is running with has no source that anyone has come to trust.  And if you follow the story, you get to media sources that are little more than fans.  

 
I somehow just heard about the Kendricks story today.

I like to say it's the same crap every year with the Browns, but it really is a fresh load each season.

 
massraider said:
No. You are now applying positions to me.

I don't believe that all.  I'm sure people have called.  I'm saying the narrative everyone is running with has no source that anyone has come to trust.  And if you follow the story, you get to media sources that are little more than fans.  
Click to expand...


I swore to stop and I will, but I just had to add that you are incorrect with your second paragraph.  Again, please have a great day.

 
can we just get back to how crazy it is that one of the Browns LBers just got indicted on federal charges and there’s at least the possibility that they could trade for Mack?

i’m shocked soulfly hasn’t had a heart attack yet.  

maybe HBO knew what they were doing after all?

 
massraider said:
What negotiations? What trade negotiations are you referring to? The ones that no one has said are taking place?

I just showed the genesis of the two #1s talk. It was an NFLN guy speculating that's where the price would start. That's it. That becomes:

"RAIDERS ASKING FOR TWO FIRST ROUNDERS FOR MACK"

It being retweeted over and over makes is no more legit.

I like reading the Cleveland thread, good posters and a fun team. Several of them are discussing a trade stance that I don't believe is there. 

It Is it POSSIBLE that NFLN guy guessed right, and there are talks happening, and that's the price?  Yes. Totally possible.

My point is: there's no legit source saying this is the prices, or he's on the block. A quick search of the internet confirms that. Hence the sheeple comment. Hope you can recover.?
Click to expand...
No trade negotiations but many are reporting teams are reaching out to Oakland.

Matt Miller references 'multiple NFL sources' which state three teams have made 'strong inquiries' about Mack.

Sometimes smoke indicates fire. 

I'm buying teams have put out feelers and a couple of teams have to be seriously interested.

Multiple sources could be coming from an echo chamber or they could be independent sources with real info.

I just think logically many teams would be interested and a few are probably seriously interested.

-------------------------------

Matt Miller  Twitter

Matt Miller‏Verified account @nfldraftscout

FollowFollow @nfldraftscout

Will Khalil Mack be traded? I've talked to multiple NFL sources today and learned that at least 3 teams have made strong inquiries with the Raiders about a trade for Mack.

11:24 AM - 30 Aug 2018

---------------------------------

No team would make an offer without extending him or they'd inherit the holdout.

To your point, no one is reporting the Raiders have given permission for Mack's agent to negotiate with other teams.

If  we hear Mack's agent has permission to negotiate an extension then we can reasonably assume the Raiders have either gotten a strong offer or that they have decided to move on.  Nothing indicates either of those two things have happened at this time but I'm sure that teams have reached out and I would be at least three teams have made serious offers.

 
Sure, I think teams have called. 

I would be surprised if no one had. 

I've never said no one did, and am not defending a statement some other dude wants to apply to me.

People calling the Raiders doesn't refute a single statement I've made.

 
massraider said:
Sure, I think teams have called. 

I would be surprised if no one had. 

I've never said no one did, and am not defending a statement some other dude wants to apply to me.

People calling the Raiders doesn't refute a single statement I've made.
Click to expand...
I agree.

I was clarifying that we know something is happening if/when we hear that Mack's agent has permission to negotiate, then we know things are in motion.

 
I'll give Baker credit, he does a really good job going through his progressions & after 8-10 seconds usually finds someone open

 
PlasmaDogPlasma said:
I'm pro-Baker, but the idea that last night showed anything significant is pretty silly imo.
Click to expand...
While I agree with the statement I look at last night as I got exactly what I wanted. Baker looked good because as a #1 and the ability he brings to the table he was suppose to look good against 2nd & 3rd stringers. So that was refreshing because in the past decade or so, I couldn't always say that. I don't think anyone really made the team by their performance last night. Nate Orchard probably helped his cause but I'm still not sure he makes the team.

Just happy to get through pre-season pretty much injury free. That's always my biggest concern because, again, we've been hit by the injury bug early on. All-in-all happy with everything and bring on the Steelers!

 
PlasmaDogPlasma said:
OK?
Click to expand...
I guess what I'm getting at is every play has a hundred variations versus different defenses and "looks", be that protection schemes, route tree, check downs, and so on.  The knowledge & experience of how to handle them all is what makes Tyrod Taylor more likely to succeed (ie win) right now.  Baker, I'm sure, got to see and react to more NFL-level defensive strategy last night.  THAT is the point of playing him versus scrubs in a meaningless game.  The coaches are aware of everything.  We don't even get to see downfield progressions.

 
Cleveland has discussed trade for Khalil Mack

...Sources have confirmed to The OBR that the Browns and Oakland Raiders have spoken about defensive end/outside linebacker Khalil Mack.

... the Browns have so much salary cap space that they could offer Mack the $20 million annually and still have the second most salary cap space in the NFL.

Mack played defensive end last season but he has the same size of outside linebacker Jamie Collins. Cleveland could probably play him in either role. He has done both with the Raiders and previously in college. The inclusion of a player like defensive end Emmanuel Ogbah or Collins might make the deal more intriguing for Oakland as well.

The Florida native has appeared in three Pro Bowls. He has accumulated 304 tackles, 40.5 sacks, nine forced fumbles, an interception and a defensive touchdown in his career. Last season, Mack had 78 tackles, 10.5 sacks, a forced fumble and a fumble recovery. He was named the NFL Defensive Player of the Year in 2016. The former No. 5 overall selection would form a nightmarish pass rush combo with defensive end Myles Garrett.
Click to expand...
I did not think about trading Emmanuel Ogbah but if we did that then Mack would move to DE and we'd keep Jamie Collins.

A sideline report with GM John Dorsey hinted about this rumor during last night's game.

 
#### it. push your chips in and let’s make some noise. 

i’d rather they send Collins, there’s already been rumors about discontent there. 

 
massraider said:
What negotiations? What trade negotiations are you referring to? The ones that no one has said are taking place?

I just showed the genesis of the two #1s talk. It was an NFLN guy speculating that's where the price would start. That's it. That becomes:

"RAIDERS ASKING FOR TWO FIRST ROUNDERS FOR MACK"

It being retweeted over and over makes is no more legit.

I like reading the Cleveland thread, good posters and a fun team. Several of them are discussing a trade stance that I don't believe is there. 

It Is it POSSIBLE that NFLN guy guessed right, and there are talks happening, and that's the price?  Yes. Totally possible.

My point is: there's no legit source saying this is the prices, or he's on the block. A quick search of the internet confirms that. Hence the sheeple comment. Hope you can recover.?
Click to expand...


:lol:

 
Not cool to gloat but their was a ton of smoke before this broke.

According to early reports from Shefter the deal is two-1st round picks PLUS and he left the PLUS as the unknown.

Maybe Trevathain or Floyd and some Raider fans are hoping Roquain.   Not sure what player(s) are included.

Could be nothing but a pot sweetner or a a substantial starter.

Details coming.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dan Wiederer‏ @danwiederer

FollowFollow @danwiederer

When Matt Nagy gathered his team Friday for an important announcement, one player shouted from the back: “Have we all just been traded for Khalil Mack?” Prince Amukamara: “It was awesome. I was cracking up.”

6:27 PM - 27 Aug 2018

 
As cool as it woulda been to have Mack, two 1sts and the deal he is going to get would be about the biggest investment in one player in the history of the NFL.  

 
ghostguy123 said:
As cool as it woulda been to have Mack, two 1sts and the deal he is going to get would be about the biggest investment in one player in the history of the NFL.  
Click to expand...
Two-1sts PLUS

I'm sure we were in the mix but it makes a ton of sense for the Raiders to ship him out of the conference so that 'may' have been a big factor.

 
moondog said:
Aaron Donald got 135M contract - 40M singing bonus - 87M total guaranteed.  Mack will probably match that or get more. 
Click to expand...
The salary cap savings is huge.

The Raiders will free up over $23 million.  With that money they could turn right around and make an offer to Pittsburgh for LeVeon Bell.

Pittsburgh isn't ever going to sign an extension so he's gone this offseason.  Pittsburgh is only going to get a 3rd round compensatory pick in 2020 and those come at the very-end of the 3rd round which basically makes then a high 4th round pick.  Oakland can offer a 2019 3rd which would be higher and they'd get the pick sooner.  Oakland could also throw in Beast Mode  to sweeten the deal and gain a big PR victory with their fans and put that cap savings to good use.

 
Largest contract for a defensive player ever, plus two 1st round picks for a team coming off 1-31 the past two years.............with a ton of new players, and still a terrible coach?

I mean sure, we COULD be a decent team this year and next year, but wow that had the potential to be an absolute disaster of all disasters if we gave two 1sts on top of the mega-deal.

I for one am glad we did not pay what we would have had to pay.  

 
Corey Coleman gets traded to Buffalo for a 7th round pick.

They cut him and eat over $2 million.

We traded $16 for a 2nd round pick but in this case we traded a WR for a 7th and saved over $2 million in salary..

----------------------

Spotrac‏Verified account @spotrac

FollowFollow @spotrac

Spotrac Retweeted Ian Rapoport

The #Bills will actually LOSE $2M in cap space per this move. As Coleman held guaranteed salaries of $1.5M, & $2M that now accelerate to 2018 dead cap. http://bit.ly/2wxVkbT

 
Corey Coleman being cut by Bills proves: 1st round talent, 7th round mentality. And that’s probably doing a disservice to 7th rounders because they want to play more than this knucklehead. Bone up on the requirements for your insurance license Corey.

 
ghostguy123 said:
Largest contract for a defensive player ever, plus two 1st round picks for a team coming off 1-31 the past two years.............with a ton of new players, and still a terrible coach?

I mean sure, we COULD be a decent team this year and next year, but wow that had the potential to be an absolute disaster of all disasters if we gave two 1sts on top of the mega-deal.

I for one am glad we did not pay what we would have had to pay.  
Click to expand...
Mack. :D

Hope money is everything to this guy, because he went from an up and coming team to a dumpster fire where he'll likely never sniff a championship.

 
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