Cleveland Browns (6 Viewers)

[Peak]

That isn't depth.  That's a problem.  A problem that didn't exist this time yesterday.  Ogbah not living up to his draft slot is a totally different topic than providing quality depth.  It isn't relevant either.  Neither is him walking at year's end.  He had use on this roster for this year.  And the possibility to generate a comp pick once he walks.  Now we have a special teams player, which isn't difficult to find on the free market.  But you know what is difficult to find?  DE's.

There's at least 5 sitting out looking for a team right now in Ezekiel Ansah, Adrian Clayborn, Derrick Morgan, Nick Perry, and Shane Ray.  Not to mention this being called a "deep draft" for DE and DL talent, particularly the later rounds.

Let's consider your response of losing one player does to depth, shall we?

Left Defensive End Myles Garrett Emmanuel Ogbah Chris Smith Lenny Jones
Right Defensive End Olivier Vernon Anthony Zettel Chad Thomas

Strong Safety — Crickets —
Free Safety Damarious Randall Jermaine Whitehead


One could argue that Safety Depth and ST Play are much more vital concerns for "lack of depth" than DE just looking at the current roster.  The DL has talent there, while Safety is clearly lacking - even for depth.  I'll gladly remove one to help fill the other.  It just makes sense.  Does the addition of Murray suddenly absolve all the concerns with S Depth? No, absolutetly not.  But it helps to build the depth that is obviously lacking.

ST play was abysmal last year.  Dorsey went and found one of the top leaders from KC who is known to blow up returns and force runners to opposite ends of the field.  Oh, and he can help fill much more needed depth at S and DB. 

I understand some of the love for Ogbah, but cmon, he's not an all-star pro-bowler.  He didn't provide "much needed depth" for an already deep position.  It was a basic trade, where Dorsey moved one piece from an abundant resource to help fill a void where it was lacking.  I'd much rather have a player I can use now that is seasoned and a well respected team player over a mystery comp pick next year.  I don't understand that reasoning, and I probably never will.

 

[Peak]

 Eric Murray was in the last year of his deal and he was a short corner who couldn't handle the slot and injuries forced them to start him, he didn't earn it.

Ogbah was a high second round pick  with loads of athletic ability who hadn't scratched the surface of his potential and had been dealing with injuries the past two years.  

Neither was on a path for a second contract but Ogbah earned his starting gig and had way higher upside and still does IMHO.

Both Murray and Ogbah are going to have the opportunity to excel in a change of scenery deal.  Ogbah was a rotational, depth player.  He will get the chance to do so in a bigger spotlight in KC where DE is void of talent.  A much better opportunity for him there than in CLE, where he would be going in to give Vernon and Garrett a breather every so often.  Injuries aside, that's where Oggie is right now.  He's not beating out either of the Browns starting DEs.  Let's say it together, "Ogbah will not be a starting DE for the CLE Browns, whether or not he was traded."  He's not.  He was given the position because of this team's lack of depth last year.  To keep him on the roster where he won't get as much playing time for a Comp Pick in 2020 is ridiculously short-sighted.  He has value now, so use it to find help at another position.  

Murray is also on the last year of his deal.  He was also PFF's 5th rated S in the AFC West last year, and had 9.1 attempted tackles per missed tackle (Chiefs DBs with 500+ snaps: 2nd of 5, behind Steven Nelson) and 7 defensive stops (most among Chiefs safeties).  Let's not act like this guy is chopped liver or a bag of wet noodles.  He can play football.  He's athletic and fast, and has the opportunity to make a name for himself in CLE.  Just like Oggie now has a chance to make a name for himself in KC.  Neither player was going to shine if they remained with their teams.  Neither player was going to get a 2nd contract from their respective teams.  Now each player has a chance for a redo in a place where their talents will be used. I don't understand how this is a bad trade for either player.  It's a fair trade for each team to fill gaps with depth players.

 

[MAC_32]

There's at least 5 sitting out looking for a team right now in Ezekiel Ansah, Adrian Clayborn, Derrick Morgan, Nick Perry, and Shane Ray.  Not to mention this being called a "deep draft" for DE and DL talent, particularly the later rounds.

Let's consider your response of losing one player does to depth, shall we?

Left Defensive End Myles Garrett Emmanuel Ogbah Chris Smith Lenny Jones
Right Defensive End Olivier Vernon Anthony Zettel Chad Thomas

Strong Safety — Crickets —
Free Safety Damarious Randall Jermaine Whitehead


One could argue that Safety Depth and ST Play are much more vital concerns for "lack of depth" than DE just looking at the current roster.  The DL has talent there, while Safety is clearly lacking - even for depth.  I'll gladly remove one to help fill the other.  It just makes sense.  Does the addition of Murray suddenly absolve all the concerns with S Depth? No, absolutetly not.  But it helps to build the depth that is obviously lacking.

ST play was abysmal last year.  Dorsey went and found one of the top leaders from KC who is known to blow up returns and force runners to opposite ends of the field.  Oh, and he can help fill much more needed depth at S and DB. 

I understand some of the love for Ogbah, but cmon, he's not an all-star pro-bowler.  He didn't provide "much needed depth" for an already deep position.  It was a basic trade, where Dorsey moved one piece from an abundant resource to help fill a void where it was lacking.  I'd much rather have a player I can use now that is seasoned and a well respected team player over a mystery comp pick next year.  I don't understand that reasoning, and I probably never will.

Every one of the DE's you cited are coming off poor season's.  Every one of them but Shane Ray is also on the wrong side of the age bell curve.  And Ray not only is on the heels of two bad seasons, but also has a very lengthy rap sheet.  You already have a younger version of the same player on your roster signed cheaply.

The deep draft is another reason I expected Ogbah to walk.  But again, it isn't a reason to move him.  You're drafting for the year after this one; not this one.  Any year one contributions are an unexpected bonus.  And if they do happen they're likely in the most important time of season due to in-season development.  You have to get there though.

You're also not accounting for replacement value.  The replacement value of a backup strong safety is low.  As are special teams players.  They're plentiful and can be acquired cheaply.  That isn't the case with DE.

 

[MAC_32]

Let's say it together, "Ogbah will not be a starting DE for the CLE Browns, whether or not he was traded."  He's not.  

Literally no one is saying otherwise.  Good defenses have multiple players they can deploy on the DL.  We suffered greatly last year because we didn't have capable bodies to shuffle in to give our starter's a breather.  You're not keeping him to get a comp pick.  You're keeping him to use him, and all DL, in a more effective manner AND get a comp pick.

 

[Peak]

You're also not accounting for replacement value.  The replacement value of a backup strong safety is low.  As are special teams players.  They're plentiful and can be acquired cheaply.  That isn't the case with DE.

Odd.  I just gave you 5 names that could be picked up for Vet minimum after the draft that will immediately add to your DE depth - moreso than Ogbah would have.  

This team has depth for this year, so you are correct in that they would be drafting for next year.  Guess I have to type that out so you can see that I understand your point and I don't see a problem with this situation.  I don't think DE is as dire a need as you perceive it to be, or else Dorsey would have grabbed one of these FAs floating around - or <gasp> maybe Dorsey wouldn't have traded him!

Dorsey's earned my trust in this, and if he thinks Murray is worth the trade of Oggie, then I'm in.  If Dorsey thinks he'll get more out of Murray than a 2020 Comp Pick, I'm in.  

 

[Peak]

Literally no one is saying otherwise.

Neither was on a path for a second contract but Ogbah earned his starting gig and had way higher upside and still does IMHO.

Ummmm.....well.....that's what I was replying to.....soooo.......

 

[MAC_32]

Odd.  I just gave you 5 names that could be picked up for Vet minimum after the draft that will immediately add to your DE depth - moreso than Ogbah would have.  

This team has depth for this year, so you are correct in that they would be drafting for next year.  Guess I have to type that out so you can see that I understand your point and I don't see a problem with this situation.  I don't think DE is as dire a need as you perceive it to be, or else Dorsey would have grabbed one of these FAs floating around - or <gasp> maybe Dorsey wouldn't have traded him!

Dorsey's earned my trust in this, and if he thinks Murray is worth the trade of Oggie, then I'm in.  If Dorsey thinks he'll get more out of Murray than a 2020 Comp Pick, I'm in.  

The options you cited and currently exist are not optimal to Ogbah, whose cap number for 19 is barely over the vet minimum.

 

[Peak]

You're not keeping him to get a comp pick.  You're keeping him to use him, and all DL, in a more effective manner AND get a comp pick.

In my eyes, you're keeping him on the roster where he won't be able to prove himself each week.  His snap counts will go down tremendously as he's blocked by Vernon and Garrett. When he does get the chance to shine, his stats don't show favorably enough that he will excel in the limited capacity.  So yes, I would tend to think that they would only be keeping Oggie for a Comp Pick.  In fact, they would be doing him a disservice on his next contract by not letting him play.  As Bracie pointed out, he's been injured over the years and hasn't lived up to his draft potential.  Now he's in KC, a new place that needs a seasoned DE to help lead that group.  He has his chance to shine, and it should be a starting job for him.  That's a much better place for him, instead of being stuck on the bench in CLE.  Dorsey did the guy a favor, IMO.

 

[Peak]

The options you cited and currently exist are not optimal to Ogbah, whose cap number for 19 is barely over the vet minimum.

If Oggie is "barely over" the vet minimum, and you could get Ansah on a one year Vet minimum deal, then I think that would be optimal to Oggie.  The talent is better and the contract would be less, albeit not by much.  I don't get your logic here.

 

[MAC_32]

In my eyes, you're keeping him on the roster where he won't be able to prove himself each week.  His snap counts will go down tremendously as he's blocked by Vernon and Garrett. When he does get the chance to shine, his stats don't show favorably enough that he will excel in the limited capacity.  So yes, I would tend to think that they would only be keeping Oggie for a Comp Pick.  In fact, they would be doing him a disservice on his next contract by not letting him play.  As Bracie pointed out, he's been injured over the years and hasn't lived up to his draft potential.  Now he's in KC, a new place that needs a seasoned DE to help lead that group.  He has his chance to shine, and it should be a starting job for him.  That's a much better place for him, instead of being stuck on the bench in CLE.  Dorsey did the guy a favor, IMO.

I don't care about Kansas City.  I care about Cleveland.  

 

[MAC_32]

If Oggie is "barely over" the vet minimum, and you could get Ansah on a one year Vet minimum deal, then I think that would be optimal to Oggie.  The talent is better and the contract would be less, albeit not by much.  I don't get your logic here.

Ziggy is 30, Ogbah is 25.  Two of Ziggy's last three seasons have been poor and all of them have been injury filled.  His arrow isn't going to go up.  His team that needs help on the line opted not to bring him back.  And there is absolutely nothing indicating he would sign for the vet minimum.  And if you can then you wait until you actually sign him to that deal before you consider disposing of Ogbah for a replaceable commodity.  That last part is the logic that for whatever reason isn't going through.  Trading him for something of value that can help now makes sense.  I already wrote that.  A special teams player that may be a backup DB is not valuable.  It's a need, but it can be found on the street.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Both Murray and Ogbah are going to have the opportunity to excel in a change of scenery deal.  Ogbah was a rotational, depth player.  He will get the chance to do so in a bigger spotlight in KC where DE is void of talent.  A much better opportunity for him there than in CLE, where he would be going in to give Vernon and Garrett a breather every so often.  Injuries aside, that's where Oggie is right now.  He's not beating out either of the Browns starting DEs.  Let's say it together, "Ogbah will not be a starting DE for the CLE Browns, whether or not he was traded."  He's not.  He was given the position because of this team's lack of depth last year.  To keep him on the roster where he won't get as much playing time for a Comp Pick in 2020 is ridiculously short-sighted.  He has value now, so use it to find help at another position.  

Murray is also on the last year of his deal.  He was also PFF's 5th rated S in the AFC West last year, and had 9.1 attempted tackles per missed tackle (Chiefs DBs with 500+ snaps: 2nd of 5, behind Steven Nelson) and 7 defensive stops (most among Chiefs safeties).  Let's not act like this guy is chopped liver or a bag of wet noodles.  He can play football.  He's athletic and fast, and has the opportunity to make a name for himself in CLE.  Just like Oggie now has a chance to make a name for himself in KC.  Neither player was going to shine if they remained with their teams.  Neither player was going to get a 2nd contract from their respective teams.  Now each player has a chance for a redo in a place where their talents will be used. I don't understand how this is a bad trade for either player.  It's a fair trade for each team to fill gaps with depth players.

PFF KC Chiefs‏ @PFF_Chiefse Replying to @sFlo_DrNerd @EnigmaticVayne @dkraigcarter

A 67 grade is on the lower side of the above average part of our grading scale.

3:58 PM - 20 Feb 2019

----------------------------------

The metrics are for SS because he wouldn't rank in the FS scale with 1 INT and few PDs.  Saying he ranked 5th in the AFCW isn't impressive when he'd likely rank 5th in every other division meaning as the 5th SS multiplied by 8 divisions he'd grade out around the 40th SS in the league.  He's not a starter.

He came into the league as a short CB who couldn't play outside and was moved due to injuries.  He did not win his starting position.

Ogbah started as a rookie and the next year the Browns took Garrett and he won the starting job again and last year he beat out Nassib and others.  Yeah, he won the starting job.  He  did not get handed the job as Murray did due to injuries.

 

[amnesiac]

don’t think this is a huge deal either way, but just based upon positional value, i’d rather have the DE. 

backup DE > backup SS

 

[Peak]

PFF KC Chiefs‏ @PFF_Chiefse Replying to @sFlo_DrNerd @EnigmaticVayne @dkraigcarter

A 67 grade is on the lower side of the above average part of our grading scale.

Never said he was an all-star starter, just that he was 2nd ranked S on the KC squad, per PFF - and 5th in AFCW.

But if you don't like that, you can always look at what he is highly regarded for, or you can choose to ignore that as well....whatever.

PFF placed Murray on their All-Pro Team

PFF writes: "The term “special teams ace” gets thrown around a lot, but we’re looking to grade more than simply a tally of special teams tackles. Eric Murray was a key part of the Chiefs’ kickoff, kick return, punt coverage, and punt return units. He routinely made impressive blocks in the return game, and was often found beating blockers to force returners to change direction."

 

[ghostguy123]

I didnt like the Ogbah deal either.  They basically just released him

 

[Peak]

You know it's a controversial topic when even PFF has to chime in on the trade....

Examining the trade that will send Ogbah to KC in return for S Eric Murray

This deal makes a decent amount of sense for both sides in terms of need

The Browns were also the worst special teams unit in the NFL last season by quite a distance, and Murray has been terrific there in the past, earning an 86.4 special teams grade as a rookie in 2016 which was worth about a fifth of a win above replacement.

Ogbah, whose career has been in decline since a decent rookie year in 2016, he has had his moments during his first three years in Cleveland

While this move will not move the needle with respect to win totals or Super Bowl odds, it’s a sign that both teams are past the phase of developing their identity as a football team during the 2019 offseason, and are focused on fortifying their depth at positions of need.

That's all I"m trying to say right there.  It's a win/win move for both teams.  Each get to fill a need using an expiring contract as leverage, of which neither team was going to re-sign before they expire.  I don't see the lack of depth on the CLE DL as some of you do.  I admit it's not an embarrassment of riches, but it's good enough for this year - and they have room to pick up an aging vet as back up, if the need arises.  CLE will draft a DE and pickup a UDFA to see what will emerge in 2020, but the cupboard is not bare as you make it sound.  Whereas the ST unit and the Safety position is about as bare as bare can be, and also a liability - moreso than a backup DE, IMO.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

We have a dire need of a viable starting SS.  We rank second to last in the NFL at the S position and it is because we don't have a viable starting SS.  Browns top ten team with the lowest SS grade by far

Examining the trade that will send Emmanuel Ogbah to Kansas City in return for S Eric Murray BY ERIC EAGER • APR 2, 2019

... Murray has mostly struggled along with the Chiefs’ defense over the past two years, allowing a 103.6 passer rating into his coverage and committing nine penalties...

He's not a viable starting SS and that is by far our biggest need and hole to fill.  

The disappointment is because when we dealt Ogbah and got a SS I expected more than a smallish converted CB who struggles in coverage and commits a ton of penalties.

 

[MAC_32]

You know it's a controversial topic when even PFF has to chime in on the trade....

Examining the trade that will send Ogbah to KC in return for S Eric Murray

That's all I"m trying to say right there.  It's a win/win move for both teams.  Each get to fill a need using an expiring contract as leverage, of which neither team was going to re-sign before they expire.  I don't see the lack of depth on the CLE DL as some of you do.  I admit it's not an embarrassment of riches, but it's good enough for this year - and they have room to pick up an aging vet as back up, if the need arises.  CLE will draft a DE and pickup a UDFA to see what will emerge in 2020, but the cupboard is not bare as you make it sound.  Whereas the ST unit and the Safety position is about as bare as bare can be, and also a liability - moreso than a backup DE, IMO.

Only one side of this deal (adequately) filled a need.  We got a backup safety from one of the league's worst defenses last year.

 

[Peak]

We have a dire need of a viable starting SS.  We rank second to last in the NFL at the S position and it is because we don't have a viable starting SS.  Browns top ten team with the lowest SS grade by far

Examining the trade that will send Emmanuel Ogbah to Kansas City in return for S Eric Murray BY ERIC EAGER • APR 2, 2019

He's not a viable starting SS and that is by far our biggest need and hole to fill.  

The disappointment is because when we dealt Ogbah and got a SS I expected more than a smallish converted CB who struggles in coverage and commits a ton of penalties.

Thanks for posting the link I just posted.  

I don't think he's a starting SS at all - gap filler at worst, but most likely depth.  I haven't moved from that sentiment.  I firmly believe he's here for depth and ST.  He's a very good ST player.  I can start posting highlight vids if you want.

I think some of you had your hopes up too high on Oggie.  I don't see him as more than a depth player.  He wasn't going to net the Browns a starting SS in return.  The two teams literally just traded depth players for areas of need, which was the basis of the article we both linked in this thread.  It's the reason why this was a good trade.  If you can't see that, then I don't know what to tell you.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Thanks for posting the link I just posted.  

I don't think he's a starting SS at all - gap filler at worst, but most likely depth.  I haven't moved from that sentiment.  I firmly believe he's here for depth and ST.  He's a very good ST player.  I can start posting highlight vids if you want.

I think some of you had your hopes up too high on Oggie.  I don't see him as more than a depth player.  He wasn't going to net the Browns a starting SS in return.  The two teams literally just traded depth players for areas of need, which was the basis of the article we both linked in this thread.  It's the reason why this was a good trade.  If you can't see that, then I don't know what to tell you.

Dude I was already looking at the article before you posted it.  You didn't discover the Internet.  

Saying Oggie doesn't diminish how high he rated on athletic terms heading into his draft or what athletic skills he possessed.  Murray is short and doesn't have athletic skills but I won't take shots at his name.

It wasn't a good trade and it is because it smacks of the same thing Dorsey did last year in dumping Nassib when he held upside where he became a solid starter.  We didn't retain the corner who went back to Buffalo and cut a SS who probably was better than Murray but he wasn't good so Murray ranks lower than the guy we just cut but plays ST.  It wasn't a good trade.

 

[Peak]

Dude I was already looking at the article before you posted it.  You didn't discover the Internet.  

Saying Oggie doesn't diminish how high he rated on athletic terms heading into his draft or what athletic skills he possessed.  Murray is short and doesn't have athletic skills but I won't take shots at his name.

It wasn't a good trade and it is because it smacks of the same thing Dorsey did last year in dumping Nassib when he held upside where he became a solid starter.  We didn't retain the corner who went back to Buffalo and cut a SS who probably was better than Murray but he wasn't good so Murray ranks lower than the guy we just cut but plays ST.  It wasn't a good trade.

Never said I did, just pointing out you're cutting past the basis of the article for one negative statement.

According to PFF, Kindred rated out at a 46.9 (below average) while Murray rated out at a 67.5 (above average). For comparisons sake, Ogbah at a 58.9 (average). So Murray must be doing something right - which again points out to why even PFF rated this as a win/win trade.  It's not a world beater, as it shouldn't be - but trading depth for need in both scenarios is why this trade works.

Nassib is also just a depth player for TB.  Again, let's not act like Dorsey is just throwing talent away.  Would you rather he kept Nassib and tossed Oggie?  People were all over Dorsey on the Randall trade, and look how that worked out.  Why sit here and 2nd guess the guy that has helped change this entire team for the better?  What other moves of Dorsey are you upset about Bracie-boy?

 

[Joe Bryant]

What other moves of Dorsey are you upset about Bracie-boy?




 

Please don't do stuff like that. Thank you. 

 

[Joe Bryant]

You didn't discover the Internet.  




 

Please don't do stuff like that. Thank you. 

 

[MAC_32]

Thanks for posting the link I just posted.  

I don't think he's a starting SS at all - gap filler at worst, but most likely depth.  I haven't moved from that sentiment.  I firmly believe he's here for depth and ST.  He's a very good ST player.  I can start posting highlight vids if you want.

I think some of you had your hopes up too high on Oggie.  I don't see him as more than a depth player.  He wasn't going to net the Browns a starting SS in return.  The two teams literally just traded depth players for areas of need, which was the basis of the article we both linked in this thread.  It's the reason why this was a good trade.  If you can't see that, then I don't know what to tell you.

I see what you're saying. I just think what you're saying is wrong. In no world can you convince me a special teams player is more valuable than a potentially viable defensive end. 

 

[amnesiac]

I see what you're saying. I just think what you're saying is wrong. In no world can you convince me a special teams player is more valuable than a potentially viable defensive end. 

yep.  

its like trading a good backup QB for a kicker.  

 

[Peak]

I see what you're saying. I just think what you're saying is wrong. In no world can you convince me a special teams player is more valuable than a potentially viable defensive end. 

Fair enough.  I also think I'm under-valuing Oggie where you are over-valuing him - at least from my perspective.  I see a bench player traded for a bench player.  Oggie was a viable rotational/backup DE.  If Chad Thomas is what people think he is - talent wise, then he should make everyone forget Oggie altogether.  I think we have other depth players that will fill the hole left by trading Oggie.  I also think we had an alarmingly glaring need at S (starting and depth) as well as a major need on ST that was helped by this trade.  I don't see Murray as a starting SS, but he fills a need at depth for that position and brings with him above average ST play - which this team is lacking.  

Dorsey said in yesterday's PC that ST will be a focal point this year, and this move echoes that statement.  I think Thomas and Smith will become viable backup DEs this season - or if Wilks disagrees Dorsey will find a FA for vet minimum to help that unit.  But the S position was of great need as there was no one there - starting or depth.  It was a good move.

 

[Bobcat10]

I think I'd rather have kept Ogbah and found other means for Special Team aces and/or safety depth.  I do feel there is a good chance Dorsey will use one of our earlier picks on DE, even though we have some "depth" there, and that was a factor in the trade (along with Ogbah's possible unhappiness which most people are not considering).  Not sure how you guys spent a day on this trade...but it was a good read!

The curious aspect buried in all of this is the release of Kindred, who was actually claimed (unsurprisingly to me).  

 

[mr fancypants]

HBO’s Hard Knocks featuring the Cleveland Browns received three Emmy nominations on Wednesday NFL Media announced.

Unfortunately No Best Actor for Hue.

https://923thefan.radio.com/articles/hard-knocks-cleveland-browns-receives-3-emmy-nominations

 

[Bobcat10]

HBO’s Hard Knocks featuring the Cleveland Browns received three Emmy nominations on Wednesday NFL Media announced.

Unfortunately No Best Actor for Hue.

https://923thefan.radio.com/articles/hard-knocks-cleveland-browns-receives-3-emmy-nominations

Is this unprecedented for the Knocks series?

Heeeee Heeeeeeeee

 

[Peak]

HBO’s Hard Knocks featuring the Cleveland Browns received three Emmy nominations on Wednesday NFL Media announced.

Unfortunately No Best Actor for Hue.

https://923thefan.radio.com/articles/hard-knocks-cleveland-browns-receives-3-emmy-nominations

I think Denis Leary is more convincing as a HC than Hue ever was....which isn't saying much.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Browns host Mississippi State defensive tackle Jeffery Simmons for pre-draft visit

Mississippi State defensive tackle Jeffery Simmons...  visited the Browns.

...Last week at the NFL owners meetings in Phoenix, General Manager John Dorsey vowed to meet Simmons before the April 25-27 draft “one way or another.”

...  During Mississippi State’s pro day last week, Simmons told NFL Network the Browns were among the teams he would rendezvous with during meetings surrounding the pro day.

Although many draft analysts consider Simmons a top-five pick, he might slide out of the first round because he suffered a torn anterior cruciate ligament in his left knee while training in February and has off-field baggage in his past. The Browns don’t have a first-round selection...  aren’t scheduled to go on the clock until the second round (No. 49 overall).

Simmons is a name to watch there or in a trade-up scenario.

Dorsey defended Simmons last week when asked if the Browns could take on Simmons...

“I think from your standpoint, what you should do is you should talk to the coaches and the support system at Starkville, Mississippi State, and just see what kind of man that guy really is,” Dorsey said of Simmons.

Because of Simmons’ recent knee surgery, he probably won’t play in 2019. Last month, the Browns signed three-technique defensive tackle Sheldon Richardson, so they would be able to ease Simmons back if Dorsey were to pick him.

Asked if Richardson’s presence would give the Browns a good setup to pick Simmons despite his injury, Dorsey said, “We’re still doing our research with regards to some other stuff, but I know on the film when you watch [Simmons] play the game of football, he’s a really good football player — really good.”

Simmons, 6-foot-4 and about 300 pounds, started 28 of his 38 collegiate games and had 163 tackles, 32.5 tackles for loss, seven sacks, seven pass breakups, five forced fumbles, three blocked kicks and two defensive touchdowns. As a junior last season, he started 12 of 13 games and had 63 tackles, 17 tackles for loss, two sacks, a forced fumble and four pass breakups.

We are interested but if he falls and we take him then we won't have him till next year which is 'kinda like' trading a 2nd round pick this year for a top-seven talent next year.

Dorsey had done something like this last year with Corbett who wasn't going to start and had to sit a year but he wasn't a top-seven talent.  

 

[JetMaxx]

Simmons won’t make it past Philly @ 25

 

[Soulfly3]

Morgan Burnett, 2yr deal to the Browns

 

[Peak]

Morgan Burnett, 2yr deal to the Browns

Was just coming in to post this one.  I like the move as it fills that starting SS role now.  

Browns are also going to sign QB Garrett Gilbert of AAF fame

 

[MAC_32]

Was just coming in to post this one.  I like the move as it fills that starting SS role now.  

Now, this - we agree on.  He will probably be a source of frustration at times this year, but given his relative cost I expect it to be worthwhile.  And more importantly this add increases flexibility later this month.  We are no longer in a position in which we may inadvertently draft with need in mind.  We can let the draft develop then pounce on the opportunities that present themselves.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Morgan Burnett, 2yr deal to the Browns

Two former Packers starting at the safety positions.  Dorsey got a solid starter last year.

Burnett is entering his tenth year in the league so he's no long term solution, he requested his release from Pittsburgh which I find interesting.  I think he's got something left in the tank.

In his prime he was a solid SS.  Steelers tried to make him a SS/LB hybrid to fill the Ryan Shazier void, didn't work.   Only had two starts for them.

We need at least one young guy to come in and compete and/or to groom.  He's a stop-gap bridge but he fills a dire need and I don't think he's as bad as Steeler fans believe.  

I like this signing.  

Morgan Burnett signing

...  The veteran played in just 11 games last season, starting two. Burnett's frustration stemmed from his belief that he was 'playing out of position' this season. He was being used more as a dime linebacker.

It is believed that Burnett's deal will be for one season. 

...  According to the NFL Player's Association, the Browns have $35,716,950 in salary cap space.

The addition of Burnett would mean that Cleveland is no longer desperate at the position. They could still choose to take a strong safety if the board falls right for them in the 2019 NFL Draft. They have remaining needs at cornerback and outside linebacker.

 

[The Man With No Name]

Sheehy-Guiseppi is a 5-foot-11, 181 pound receiver out of Phoenix College. He was a first-team NJCAA All-American in 2016 and led the nation in kick return yardage and kick return touchdowns.

 

[MAC_32]

led the nation in kick return yardage and kick return touchdowns.

We could use of those. But. Punt return > kick return. 

 

[The Man With No Name]

Sheehy-Guiseppi video

 

[Dez]

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/2019-nfl-draft-ranking-position-groups-for-all-32-teams-reveals-biggest-needs/

Cleveland Browns

QB      RB      WR/TE         OL        EDGE       INT DL           LB             DB

8.6      3.8         1.8          15.6        5.0            11.2          15.5             13

Needs: N/A
Pressing: N/A

The Cleveland Browns, ladies and gentlemen! One of two teams on our entire list with no needs or pressing needs. My, how times have changed. The offensive line is the closest thing to a need area here, and after seeing Joe Thomas retire and Kevin Zeitler get shipped out in a trade the past two offseason, that makes a good deal of sense. If they can add some depth there and in the defensive backfield, this looks like one of the best teams in the league in 2019.  

 

[The Man With No Name]

Made a $20 wager with a co worker. Most wins - Browns / Steelers

 

[DocHolliday]

Made a $20 wager with a co worker. Most wins - Browns / Steelers

I' don't bet much but I'm taking the Browns all day

 

[Bracie Smathers]

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/2019-nfl-draft-ranking-position-groups-for-all-32-teams-reveals-biggest-needs/

Cleveland Browns

QB      RB      WR/TE         OL        EDGE       INT DL           LB             DB

8.6      3.8         1.8          15.6        5.0            11.2          15.5             13

Needs: N/A
Pressing: N/A

The Cleveland Browns, ladies and gentlemen! One of two teams on our entire list with no needs or pressing needs. My, how times have changed. The offensive line is the closest thing to a need area here, and after seeing Joe Thomas retire and Kevin Zeitler get shipped out in a trade the past two offseason, that makes a good deal of sense. If they can add some depth there and in the defensive backfield, this looks like one of the best teams in the league in 2019.  

Hmnn.  Not sure how LB isn't deemed a pressing need.

Our entire linebacking corps looked much better with Danny Shelton at NT anchoring the LOS and containing blockers allowing the LBers to flow to the action.  When Shelton was at NT all three of our LBers ranked in the top-11.  This is from January of last year before we dealt Shelton and left a gap on our D-Line. 

NFL1000: Ranking the Top Inside Linebackers of 2017 Season NFL1000 SCOUTS JANUARY 10, 2018

11. Christian Kirksey, Cleveland Browns

Pass Defense: 19/25
Run Defense: 20/25
Pass Rush: 8/15
Tackling: 20/25
Position Value: 7/10
Overall Grade: 74/100

10. Jamie Collins Sr., Cleveland Browns

Pass Defense: 20/25
Run Defense: 19/25
Pass Rush: 10/15
Tackling: 19/25
Position Value: 7/10
Overall Grade: 75/100

9. Joe Schobert, Cleveland Browns

Pass Defense: 18/25
Run Defense: 20/25
Pass Rush: 9/15
Tackling: 21/25
Position Value: 7/10
Overall Grade: 75/100

Good right?  Well at the end of last year this is how PFF had our LBers ranked.

Pro Football Focus grades and rankings of our currently listed starting linebackers

Joe Schobert

• Grade 78.2 
  
• Overall Rank #11 
  

Gerard Avery -

• Grade 54.9
  
• Overall Rank #94 
  

Christian Kirksey - 

• Grade  46.1
  
• Overall Rank #85 
  

We addressed DT with the Sheldon Richardson signing but he is more of 3 tech where Shelton was a 0 tech.  Shelton is currently an unsigned FA but I don't know if Dorsey wants to re-sign him.  I don't know how CBS shows us with a good or even average grade at LB when we've got Kirksey coming off a bad and injury year and Avery more as a situational pass rusher rather than three down starter on the outside.

 

[lod001]

Made a $20 wager with a co worker. Most wins - Browns / Steelers

Hope you took the Browns because they will own this division for the next decade plus.

 

[The Man With No Name]

Hope you took the Browns because they will own this division for the next decade plus.

Yes. He's a Steeler  fan

 

[Ray Barboni]

Just wanted to pop in here and say that I’m happy for you guys ... 

lots of good football coming your way. I’m jealous. 

Lions “fan” here. 

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Just wanted to pop in here and say that I’m happy for you guys ... 

lots of good football coming your way. I’m jealous. 

Lions “fan” here. 

Hopefully the entire rustbelt will rise again.  Cleveland, Detroit, Buffalo.

 

[Dez]

Boohoo for the 49ers.  Remember when they got Jimmy G for a 2nd when the Browns offered more but NE refused to entertain Browns about Jimmy G.

In the end thinks sure worked out great for the Browns.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/report-49ers-likely-wouldve-topped-the-browns-offer-for-odell-beckham-but-the-giants-didnt-call-them/

 

[ghostguy123]

Boohoo for the 49ers.  Remember when they got Jimmy G for a 2nd when the Browns offered more but NE refused to entertain Browns about Jimmy G.

In the end thinks sure worked out great for the Browns.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/report-49ers-likely-wouldve-topped-the-browns-offer-for-odell-beckham-but-the-giants-didnt-call-them/

I had thought there was a report out than San Fran wouldnt give the #2 for OBJ

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Remember when they got Jimmy G for a 2nd when the Browns offered more but NE refused to entertain Browns about Jimmy G.

In the end thinks sure worked out great for the Browns.

I didn't even think of that but Beliechick said he wanted to ship him out of the conference when he famously dealt Drew Bledsoe within his own division for a 1st round pick so I'm not sure why he didn't get any heat for taking a deal for less.

In the end not getting Jimmy may have been the best deal we never made.