Cleveland Browns (13 Viewers)

[Peak]

So who is still out there that we want?  Can donkey Kong suh come at any sort of bargain for a year or two?  

Safety, Berry and then draft one or two?

Here you go....from Spotrac.  Of those listed, I'd be interested in:

LB: Houston, Perry, Marshall, Brown

SS: Berry, Boston, Crypien

CB: Claiborne, Dennard, Scandrick, Breeland

Brandon Marshall	ILB	29	DEN
Zach Brown	ILB	29	WAS

Justin Houston	OLB	30	KC
Clay Matthews	OLB	33	GB
Nick Perry	OLB	29	GB
Derrick Morgan	OLB	33	TEN
Cassius Marsh	OLB	27	SF
Vincent Rey	OLB	31	CIN

Eric Berry		SS	30	KC
Tre Boston		SS	29	ARI
John Cyprien	SS	29	TEN
Jahleel Addae	SS	29	LAC
Kurt Coleman	SS	31	NO

Brent Grimes	CB	36	TB
Morris Claiborne	CB	29	NYJ
Rashaan Melvin	CB	29	OAK
Nevin Lawson	CB	28	DET
Tramaine Brock	CB	31	DEN
Kayvon Webster	CB	28	HOU
Darqueze Dennard	CB	27	CIN
Orlando Scandrick	CB	32	KC
Coty Sensabaugh	CB	30	PIT
Leon Hall	CB	34	OAK
Davon House	CB	30	GB
Sam Shields	CB	31	LAR
Shareece Wright	CB	32	HOU
Bashaud Breeland	CB	27	GB

 

[beer 30]

Right but it seems like maybe they wanna trade him just to trade him.  I hope not

I do not, for one second, believe that John Dorsey trades anything or anybody just to trade him. There is a purpose behind everything he's done so far, I don't see this situation being any different.

And knowing that Hunt is out for 8 weeks makes it very easy to approach Duke, tell him he has 8 weeks to showcase his talents and Dorsey will try to move him someplace he can contend.

 

[daveR]

Right but it seems like maybe they wanna trade him just to trade him.  I hope not

Well, I think maybe the fans do, or the sports talkers see an "extra" player, so they are jumping to the "likely to be traded"  idea.  If anyone actually heard Dorsey say this, or even allude to it, I'd be shocked.

 

[amnesiac]

it always makes me laugh when I hear fans say stuff like “Oh they signed player x, so player y is expendable.” 

BS they need to start building depth on this team if they truly want to compete.  

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Report: Browns don't have 15 prospects with first-round grades in 2019 

...NFL.com’s Lance Zierlein dropped the knowledge nugget.

“I had heard that the Browns considered there to be 15 players that are first round players in this year’s draft,” Zierlein explained. “That sounds about right. About 15 guys who are first round picks. Analytics is always about quantifying value so, for them, that 17th pick, they considered that a second round player, generally speaking. In the Browns’ mind, they considered they were giving up a second-round player and not a first round player. That makes even more sense right now,”

Browns follow Eagles/Rams blueprint 

..."You have to have high-level talent to win in the NFL," a Browns executive told me. "When you focus exclusively on a draft-and-develop strategy, it can breed complacency because guys are secure in their roles and the established pecking order.

"If you want to remain competitive, you need to bring in blue-chip players and let them raise your level of play."

Again, a crucial part of this strategy -- aggressively accumulating established difference-makers -- is not having the massive cap hit under center. 

 

[ghostguy123]

I would bet my life they did not view pick 17 as a 2nd rounder, mainly because of the astronomically small chance that one of their top 15 would not be available at 17, not to mention the relative ease to move up a couple spots at that point in the draft.

 

[Soulfly3]

I would bet my life they did not view pick 17 as a 2nd rounder, mainly because of the astronomically small chance that one of their top 15 would not be available at 17, not to mention the relative ease to move up a couple spots at that point in the draft.

they viewed pick 17 as a decent WR that has about a 5% chance of matching OBJ's worst season to date

 

[Bracie Smathers]

they viewed pick 17 as a decent WR that has about a 5% chance of matching OBJ's worst season to date

They might have only 15 first round  grades and some of them probably were for positions like QB or split-TE that they would not select.  The top blue-chip players will be off the board before #17 and like you said any WR has about a fifty-fifty shot to make it let alone turn into a top-five impact WR like OBJ.

I can imagine their board has guys like, Dremont Jones, Dexter Lawrence, Jeffery Simmons, and Jerry Tillery ranked with 2nd round grades with the guy who was the top consensus pick for the Browns in most mocks with the 17th pick when we had it, Christian Wilkins.  

I remember when the Cowboys board accidentally got leaked in a photo in the 2016 draft and they only had 16 first round grades.  They widened the number of picks up to 24 for the second round but for the first round grades they were much more exclusive which makes sense so it makes a lot of sense the Browns only have 15 first round grades and the player they anticipate dropping to the 17th pick would have a 2nd round grade.

 

[beer 30]

Report: Browns don't have 15 prospects with first-round grades in 2019 

Browns follow Eagles/Rams blueprint 

This is necks level footballing right here. So happy it's back in Cleveland again after being absent for 20 years.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

I can imagine their board has guys like, Dremont Jones, Dexter Lawrence, Jeffery Simmons, and Jerry Tillery ranked with 2nd round grades

Nate Ulrich‏ @ByNateUlrich

#Browns GM John Dorsey passionately defended Mississippi State defensive tackle Jeffery Simmons and spoke as if he believes Simmons has been rehabilitated since he repeatedly hit a woman as a high school senior. Dorsey said he will meet with Simmons prior to the draft.

12:53 PM - 25 Mar 2019

--------------------------------------

Have no clue what direction we'll go in the 2nd round but last year Dorsey did not use his picks in the 2nd round to address glaring holes.  He had veteran starters in front of Austin Corbett and Nick Chubb but took talent over need.

Not sure he will fall to our second round pick but if he does i wouldn't cross off his name.

 

[Soulfly3]

Kitchens is a Comedian

 

[daveR]

If Jamie Collins got no offers, would you want him back as a back-up? 

 

[amnesiac]

If Jamie Collins got no offers, would you want him back as a back-up? 

good question. 

is this before or after the draft?

 

[ghostguy123]

If Jamie Collins got no offers, would you want him back as a back-up? 

Cost?

 

[daveR]

Cost?

My guess is it'd take decent $, but a short contract.  Surely not superstar money.

 

[daveR]

good question. 

is this before or after the draft?

Hmmm.  After, I assume.

 

[amnesiac]

Hmmm.  After, I assume.

sure.  he seemed to underperform, but i never heard anything about him being a bad teammate.  

he’d be good for depth at the right price.  

 

[MAC_32]

My guess is it'd take decent $, but a short contract.  Surely not superstar money.

Then no.

 

[daveR]

Then no.

2 yrs at $2M per? 

 

[MAC_32]

2 yrs at $2M per? 

Collins isn't signing that.  It may not even be above the vet minimum on a per year basis - haven't seen this year's #'s.  If he's signing anything near the vet minimum it's a one year.  And this certainly wouldn't qualify as 'decent money.'

 

[daveR]

Collins isn't signing that.  It may not even be above the vet minimum on a per year basis - haven't seen this year's #'s.  If he's signing anything near the vet minimum it's a one year.  And this certainly wouldn't qualify as 'decent money.'

OK.  This is the sort of thing I had in mind.  I doubt I'd go as high as $5M per.  

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Cap concentration of how much money is devoted to stars on a team shows how concentrated a team's salary cap is to a few top stars.  

The Browns have the 2nd lowest cap concentration in the league but have significantly more players being paid at higher levels than any other team.

We do things differently from other teams in terms of how we spread around our salary cap.

2019 Salary Cap Info and Concentration Index by CHASE STUART on MARCH 23, 2019

...  Another interesting team is Cleveland. The Browns are similar to Buffalo, and have spread their salary cap dollars around: their concentration index is just 4.2%, the second lowest in the league. But Cleveland also has spent the most 2019 salary cap dollars on its top 51 players, at a whopping $192M! Think about what that means: the Browns are paying a ton of money to their players in the aggregate, but spreading it around a lot. That must mean that Cleveland is paying a lot of people good money, and well, that’s exactly what’s happening. The Browns are paying 14 players at least $6.6M in 2019 cap dollars. No other team has more than 11 such players.

The graph below shows the results of today’s post. The X-Axis shows the 2019 salary cap dollars each team has spent on its top 51 players (no dead money is included). The Y-Axis shows the concentration index for each team for these 51 players. As you can see, the Giants (highly concentrated) are at the top of the chart, the Bills are at the bottom, the Browns are at the far right (lots of $$ spent), and the Dolphins (little $$ spent) are at the far left.  GRAPH OF CAP CONCENTRATION INDEX

What stands out to you? I’ll note that the Vikings have a bit of a “stars and duds” approach, too, while also spending a ton of money. They are in the upper right corner of the chart, which might be a good place to be? Then again, which approach do you prefer: Minnesota’s or Cleveland’s?

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We are actually over the cap but have carried forward enough money and have dead cap hits on Beckham and others currently on other rosters.  That is going to catch up to us next year but the take away from the above is that we currently are over-paying too many non-stars more than average salaries.  

So, no we are not going to re-up Collins for a 'fair' value.  If we signed him or anyone right now I think we'd be looking for bargains.

 

[MAC_32]

We are actually over the cap but have carried forward enough money and have dead cap hits on Beckham and others currently on other rosters.  That is going to catch up to us next year but the take away from the above is that we currently are over-paying too many non-stars more than average salaries.  

So, no we are not going to re-up Collins for a 'fair' value.  If we signed him or anyone right now I think we'd be looking for bargains.

Re last point - agreed.  I'm sure agents of back 7 players are on standby.  They know who the Browns want and what they're willing to pay.  It's just a matter of them calling Dorsey and saying they're ready to sign.  I bet Duke and Ogbah are also still on the block, but only in exchange for a starter at one of those positions - preferably one that's expiring this year.

Re the bolded - as far as being active in free agency 11 1/2 months from now, yes.  But for context in bringing the band back together?  I doubt it.  I think Randall and Schobert are priorities and get re-upped this summer.  Once that happens the only starters that are expiring are Robinson and Tretter.  There are several highly paid players with > 2:1 cap:dead money ratios...

Vernon 15.5:0

Landry 14.55:4.5

Kirksey 9.95:2.4

Bitonio 9:0

Carrie 8.15:1.8

Hubbard 7.3:2.4

...so flexibility will be there if the decision is made to re-up one or both OL - or others.  I think our day two picks next month will tip our hand on where Dorsey thinks we'll need reinforcements.  

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Re last point - agreed.  I'm sure agents of back 7 players are on standby.  They know who the Browns want and what they're willing to pay.  It's just a matter of them calling Dorsey and saying they're ready to sign.  I bet Duke and Ogbah are also still on the block, but only in exchange for a starter at one of those positions - preferably one that's expiring this year.

Re the bolded - as far as being active in free agency 11 1/2 months from now, yes.  But for context in bringing the band back together?  I doubt it.  I think Randall and Schobert are priorities and get re-upped this summer.  Once that happens the only starters that are expiring are Robinson and Tretter.  There are several highly paid players with > 2:1 cap:dead money ratios...

Vernon 15.5:0

Landry 14.55:4.5

Kirksey 9.95:2.4

Bitonio 9:0

Carrie 8.15:1.8

Hubbard 7.3:2.4

...so flexibility will be there if the decision is made to re-up one or both OL - or others.  I think our day two picks next month will tip our hand on where Dorsey thinks we'll need reinforcements.  

Good stuff Mac.

Not sure if I have Dorsey figured out yet.

Last year in the first round he struck like a surgeon and filled dire needs but in the second round he had established vets with high salaries (too high salaries as it turned out since he dealt both of them away in trades) but took guys like Austin Corbett and Nick Chubb and we've seen the 'inexpensive' return on Chubb and hopefully will see the same on Corbett.

I don't know which way Dorsey goes this year on the second day.  He's been talking up and defending DT Jeffrey Simmons and he confirmed that we met with him.

------------------------------------------------------------

Jeffery Simmons meets with teams    Wed Mar 27, 07:48 PM

Mississippi State DT Jeffery Simmons (knee) said he met with the Jacksonville Jaguars, Cleveland Browns 

---------------------------------------------------------

With Ogun and Shel Richardson we 'appear' solid at DT but Richardson is our big high priced FA ticket this year.  Dorsey 'seemed' to be looking down the road last year when he took Corbett at the top of the 2nd round.  I donno but it seems like we have a real interest in Simmons even if he's not the pick.

If Dorsey is out to surgically strike at a dire need then look no further than this chart that shows S as our #1 need.  https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D2SC_dAWwAEvu9Y.png:large

LB is the next biggest need but we don't know what sort of D Wilks is going to run.  

I've heard rumors of a 5-2 base with a S/LB ALA the sort of D that Todd Bowles created in Arizona where Wilks was the HC last year.  

Safety might be the biggest need and if Dorsey knows of 'someone' who can fill a critical role in Wilks-D then that might be where he strikes in FA but I doubt we can find that particular type of player in the 2nd round and/or expect him to come in and immediately contribute like Baker or Denzel did last year.

 

[beer 30]

If Jamie Collins got no offers, would you want him back as a back-up? 

No, and aside from all the cap implications, I don't like his style of play. He quits too often and had plenty of opportunity to step into a leadership role last year and ran the opposite direction.

"I'd rather play with 10 people and just get penalized all the way until we have to do something else rather than play with 11 when I know that right now that person is not sold out to be a part of this team," Singletary said. "It is more about them than it is about the team. Cannot play with them, cannot win with them, cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win."

This team needs stone cold screaming banshee's at the LB position. Thanks for your time Jamie, good luck in your future endeavors.

 

[Peak]

No, and aside from all the cap implications, I don't like his style of play. He quits too often and had plenty of opportunity to step into a leadership role last year and ran the opposite direction.

"I'd rather play with 10 people and just get penalized all the way until we have to do something else rather than play with 11 when I know that right now that person is not sold out to be a part of this team," Singletary said. "It is more about them than it is about the team. Cannot play with them, cannot win with them, cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners. I want people that want to win."

This team needs stone cold screaming banshee's at the LB position. Thanks for your time Jamie, good luck in your future endeavors.

Agreed!  I'd rather invest in the draft, or get a young FA that can be coached up to the level before bringing Collins back.  They could trade for Darron Lee, or pick up another young guy with potential that needs a new start.  Anyone other than Collins, or some other washed up LB at this point.  Bring in someone who wants to be here vs someone just looking for the next paycheck.

 

[beer 30]

Bring in someone who wants to be here vs someone just looking for the next paycheck.

Yea especially now. CLE is back on the map again, it's a destination not just a paycheck anymore.

 

[The Man With No Name]

Browns haven't had this good of a team since the NFL started the salary cap in 1994.  A mix of young drafted stars, veteran stars, etc. We really don't know what it's been like for all the other teams that have been up against the salary cap while maintaining good teams for years. Saints, Patriots and others have been good for a long period of time, The Browns will be there soon and will have to make difficult decisions on some of our favorite players. And lose them. But they can potentially get established free agents at discount prices who are looking to be on a winner.
Heck, we're already talking salary cap and they're not up against it.....................yet.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

I'm sure agents of back 7 players are on standby.  They know who the Browns want and what they're willing to pay.  It's just a matter of them calling Dorsey and saying they're ready to sign.  I bet Duke and Ogbah are also still on the block, but only in exchange for a starter at one of those positions - preferably one that's expiring this year.

Re the bolded - as far as being active in free agency 11 1/2 months from now, yes.  But for context in bringing the band back together?  I doubt it.  I think Randall and Schobert are priorities and get re-upped this summer.  Once that happens the only starters that are expiring are Robinson and Tretter.  There are several highly paid players with > 2:1 cap:dead money ratios...

Vernon 15.5:0

Landry 14.55:4.5

Kirksey 9.95:2.4

Bitonio 9:0

Carrie 8.15:1.8

Hubbard 7.3:2.4

...so flexibility will be there if the decision is made to re-up one or both OL - or others.  I think our day two picks next month will tip our hand on where Dorsey thinks we'll need reinforcements.  

We need help at safety.  It is, by far our biggest need and glaring hole that needs to be filled.   Positional unit grades  The fact that Dorsey did not overpay means he is looking for sustainable success and isn't pushing in all chips in a desperate win-now mode.  The OBJ trade was clearly a stupid move by Gettleman that Dorsey could not refuse especially the dead cap hit over $20 million on the Giants books.

Vernon's deal is basically a two-year deal so he's not going anywhere for at least two years.

Landry is overpaid but he's 'safe' for at least one year just to secure OBJ and make him happy.

Kirksey was not playing well last year before his injury.  He is on thin ice IMHO.  He has a lot to prove this year and it wouldn't shock me if he got cut if a rookie or FA flat out beat him out of a job.

Bitonio ain't going nowhere, he is the rock that the O-Line is built on.

Carrie came around last year after stumbling early-on when he was forced to start.  He 'might' be able to fend off competition for awhile.

Hubbard is simply overpaid.  We need competition at OT.

Randall needs an extension and so does Joe but if you check out stats on missed tackles you will find Schobert had one of the highest missed tackle rates in the league last year.  Not sure if it was an injury thing or what but for all of the heat that Jamie Collins took people looked the other way when Joe was missing tackles but I wasn't.  He has to get better at wrapping up.

Tretter got a whole lot better last year.  He hit the weight room and really improved a ton last year.  I'd like to keep him around for a long time with Bitonio and 'hopefully' Corbett.

 

[Peak]

Ogbah no showed today for the first day of off-season workouts.  Much speculation it is due to him either about to be traded, or knowing he will be traded.  

Rumor has it Duke no-showed as well, but no 2nd confirmation found yet.  

ETA: No longer a rumor.  Freddie announced it during his PC this afternoon.  Covered both guys by saying "it's voluntary".  

 

[Peak]

Sashi: Endgame

                 

 

[Soulfly3]

"This is going to be one of the best things to ever happen to me in my life." - Odell Beckham on being traded to the Cleveland Browns

“I feel like we spoke this into existence. Him and I dreamed of this … this is surreal.” — @obj on playing with his friend @God_Son80

WR Odell Beckham Jr.: "This is everything I ever dreamed of and more. This is the biggest blessing in my entire life."

- From today's presser

 

[Peak]

Ogbah no showed today for the first day of off-season workouts.  Much speculation it is due to him either about to be traded, or knowing he will be traded.  

Annnddddd.....Ogbah traded to KC in exchange for S Eric Murray

 

[beer 30]

Annnddddd.....Ogbah traded to KC in exchange for S Eric Murray

Guess that's why they cut Derrick Kindred today. Murray any good?

 

[Peak]

Guess that's why they cut Derrick Kindred today. Murray any good?

He was a CB out of Minnesota in 2016.  Drafted in 4th rnd by Dorsey for KC.  Mainly a ST and back up guy that saw playing time in 2017/2018 due to injuries.  I think he's played both safety positions and CB for KC during his time there.  It'll be interesting to see where he's used.  I read that PFF had Murray graded higher than Kindred, so that's a win in my book.   Fast player who excels in press coverage was his note coming out of college.

 

[MAC_32]

Guess that's why they cut Derrick Kindred today. Murray any good?

This is stupid. Whatever upgrade this is does not offset the loss of a quality rotational DL.

 

[mr fancypants]

Sounds like Duke has had enough of being jerked around and officially requested a trade.

 

[daveR]

Sashi: Endgame

                 

Just ten players left from the 2017 opening day roster.

 

[caustic]

Guess that's why they cut Derrick Kindred today. Murray any good?

At special teams, yes - at safety, he’s pretty uninspiring. Barring an incredible training camp / preseason, he was probably going to be on KC’s roster bubble this fall.

 

[beer 30]

This is stupid. Whatever upgrade this is does not offset the loss of a quality rotational DL.

Yea this might be the first one where I'm really questioning why? you traded away an established commodity at a position you showed last year to need depth at for a like kind player at a, IMO, less impactful position. Ogbah musta used a magical four letter word in Dorsey's office or something.

 

[MAC_32]

Yea this might be the first one where I'm really questioning why? you traded away an established commodity at a position you showed last year to need depth at for a like kind player at a, IMO, less impactful position. Ogbah musta used a magical four letter word in Dorsey's office or something.

#2 for me - Chad Thomas was also a head scratcher.  Nit picking?  Sure, I mean - look at what we've been for the last two decades.  But attention to detail is what gets you through the most important part of the season.  This move lacks exactly that.

 

[Peak]

This is stupid. Whatever upgrade this is does not offset the loss of a quality rotational DL.

Quality?  Seriously?!? 

Ogbah averaged 1 qb hit every 100 snaps. 1 qb sack every 268 snaps.  Let's say there's an average of 70 defensive snaps per NFL game.  Oggie got close enough to a QB once every 2 games to at least whisper in his ear as he grazed passed him.  If he's lucky, Oggie actually produced a sack once every four games.  That's quality depth?  Dorsey can find a 6th, 7th or UDFA that could get that kind of production.  With a talent across from him in Garrett, and Larry in the middle, I expected more from Oggie last year.  He has underperformed as a 2nd round pick, IMO.  There is still depth on the team at DL (Garrett, Vernon, Richardson, Larry, Zettel, Coley, Smith, Price, Davis, Ekuale, Jones, Lawrence, Thomas).  We have plenty of DL, and KC needs one.  We have an extreme deficit at S, and KC had one to give.  It was a win/win from both teams, IMO.  

I wouldn't view Murray as the starter at SS, but most likely a ST Leader, where he seems to excel.  I wouldn't be surprised to see Dorsey draft a SS, and maybe pick up another veterans to fill the need, as that part of the cupboard is bare.

Also, Thomas was a head-scratcher for me last year.  I think he was a waste of a pick.  Everything I read pre-draft was that no one was certain if he even wanted to play football anymore as he was an aspiring DJ in South Florida through college.  

Summary: Every year, there are some prospects who tantalize NFL scouts with a great skill set and tons of upside, but who are also very inconsistent and have never produced up to their skill sets. They are difficult evaluations and can be love/hate prospects. Some team sources think they can get the most out of them with good pro coaching, while others think those players will never play up to their skill sets. In the 2018 NFL Draft, no player may epitomize this more than Thomas. 

For the NFL, Thomas could be a starting base end in a 4-3 defense or a standup outside linebacker in a 3-4 defense. Aside from his inconsistent and underachieving production, teams also wonder how long Thomas will want to play in the NFL as he is known as a star DJ in the Miami area with a future as a music producer. Multiple team sources say they think Thomas could be a third-round pick in the 2018 NFL Draft. 

Read more: http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2018cthomas.php#ixzz5jwetjHLT

Read more at http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2018cthomas.php#EXYTBbEgouwSvmIa.99

You can check out the guy's social media pages.  He doesn't seem like a guy interested in playing football.  His focus is on producing music.  He may have the talent, but most likely hasn't shown it yet in any consistent form to the coaches.  I don't think he should've been drafted, but I understand he has the talent to play.  It's his commitment and drive that I question.  I think that's why he hasn't seen the field.  He hasn't shown the team that he wants to really be there.  He's going through the motions and not producing when it matters.  I think this is his year to "prove" he wants to be there.  I wouldn't be surprised to see him cut before the season starts.

 

[MAC_32]

Quality?  Seriously?!? 

Ogbah averaged 1 qb hit every 100 snaps. 1 qb sack every 268 snaps.  Let's say there's an average of 70 defensive snaps per NFL game.  Oggie got close enough to a QB once every 2 games to at least whisper in his ear as he grazed passed him.  If he's lucky, Oggie actually produced a sack once every four games.  That's quality depth?  Dorsey can find a 6th, 7th or UDFA that could get that kind of production.  With a talent across from him in Garrett, and Larry in the middle, I expected more from Oggie last year.  He has underperformed as a 2nd round pick, IMO.  There is still depth on the team at DL (Garrett, Vernon, Richardson, Larry, Zettel, Coley, Smith, Price, Davis, Ekuale, Jones, Lawrence, Thomas). 

You can't criticize Ogbah as quality depth out of one side of your mouth then cite players like Zettel out the other.  Coley should be an effective rotational piece behind Richardson and Ogunjobi.  We don't have one behind Garrett and Vernon.  A 6th+ round pick may make a difference come 2020, but this year?  That's where a guy like Ogbah fills the gap - bridge to the next guy.  Dangle the allure of a contract year out there to motivate him to play better on less snaps after gross over usage last year.  If it isn't working then go to one of your alternatives for rotational purposes, but now we're staring at the same problem as last year.

I didn't object to moving him on the surface, but only if it were for a starter at a position of need.  Murray doesn't fit.  He isn't a starter.

 

[Peak]

I didn't object to moving him on the surface, but only if it were for a starter at a position of need.  Murray doesn't fit.  He isn't a starter.

Right now he is a starter.  

As for DE depth, you have Chris Smith and Chad Thomas.  So if anything, it gives way to see what MajorNine has to offer on the field of play vs the field of music.

The point of comparing Oggie to Zettel, Smith, Davis and others is because they are the same type of player.  None of them have really excelled when given the opportunity, and Oggie had many more opportunities than the others due to his draft slot.  Oggie hasn't lived up to it, and the writing was on the wall.  He was in the last year of his contract and was likely to walk and then we wouldn't have anything for him.  At least in this scenario, we have some depth at S, and a strong foundation to a ST rebuild when you add Murray to Armstrong, Taylor, and Harris - all new/recent pickups that add immediate value to ST.  I think Murray would fit multiple holes on the team whereas Oggie was bench fodder behind Vernon, Garrett, et al.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Ogbah averaged 1 qb hit every 100 snaps. 1 qb sack every 268 snaps.

First off, good work.  Ogbah was a disappointment and never lived up to expectations but I don't like this deal for a few reasons. 

Last year we  lost Carl Nassib who went to Tampa  Bay and became an inexpensive and effective starter on their D-Line.  Ogbah has a cheap contract and I think he still has some upside.

In his rookie year Ogbah had 5.5 sacks.  After starting slow with 0 sacks in the first six games he logged all 5.5 over the final 11 games.

His second season he got injured and landed on IR and only had 4 sacks which would have put him on the same .5 sack clips per game of his rookie season.

Last year he got a high ankle sprain in the very-first game and wasn't himself and only had 3 sacks in 11 games played.  

You have to account for injuries, especially high ankle sprains for a position like DE who push off on every play.  

The other thing I don't like about the deal is we didn't get much in return.  I guess the guy is solid in ST.  OK, whatever.  Not real disappointed in Dorsey but was hoping/expecting we could have addressed a position of need, S/LB/CB.

 

[Peak]

The other thing I don't like about the deal is we didn't get much in return.

I think we got the best we could given that Oggie was in the last year of his deal, and I don't see Dorsey resigning him to the contract Oggie would be looking to get after this season.  He filled his role with this young team, but the writing was on the wall.  People wanted a 5th/6th rnd pick for Oggie - essentially an extra lottery ticket for this draft.  Dorsey found a guy who can play, excels in an area of need for a sub-standard unit on this team, and can add value as a DB.  I'm not saying we fleeced KC, or that KC fleeced the Browns.  But I do think it was a win/win based on team needs and the position they were in when they made the trade.

 

[MAC_32]

Right now he is a starter.  

As for DE depth, you have Chris Smith and Chad Thomas.  So if anything, it gives way to see what MajorNine has to offer on the field of play vs the field of music.

The point of comparing Oggie to Zettel, Smith, Davis and others is because they are the same type of player.  None of them have really excelled when given the opportunity, and Oggie had many more opportunities than the others due to his draft slot.  Oggie hasn't lived up to it, and the writing was on the wall.  He was in the last year of his contract and was likely to walk and then we wouldn't have anything for him.  At least in this scenario, we have some depth at S, and a strong foundation to a ST rebuild when you add Murray to Armstrong, Taylor, and Harris - all new/recent pickups that add immediate value to ST.  I think Murray would fit multiple holes on the team whereas Oggie was bench fodder behind Vernon, Garrett, et al.

That isn't depth.  That's a problem.  A problem that didn't exist this time yesterday.  Ogbah not living up to his draft slot is a totally different topic than providing quality depth.  It isn't relevant either.  Neither is him walking at year's end.  He had use on this roster for this year.  And the possibility to generate a comp pick once he walks.  Now we have a special teams player, which isn't difficult to find on the free market.  But you know what is difficult to find?  DE's.

 

[MAC_32]

I think we got the best we could given that Oggie was in the last year of his deal, and I don't see Dorsey resigning him to the contract Oggie would be looking to get after this season.  He filled his role with this young team, but the writing was on the wall.  People wanted a 5th/6th rnd pick for Oggie - essentially an extra lottery ticket for this draft.  Dorsey found a guy who can play, excels in an area of need for a sub-standard unit on this team, and can add value as a DB.  I'm not saying we fleeced KC, or that KC fleeced the Browns.  But I do think it was a win/win based on team needs and the position they were in when they made the trade.

Of course he wasn't going to be re-signed, but that's why you keep him.  Comp picks.  You get a year's worth of play and a chip in that formula.  I'm guessing "people wanting a 5th/6th round pick" came from sports radio.  That would have been even dumber than yesterday's move.  Because you can get that and still use him this year.  Justifying one dumb move because it's not quite as dumb as another suggestion doesn't make it any less dumb though.

 

[Peak]

Lost in the shuffle yesterday....Browns resigned 4 of their players and released 3...

The Cleveland Browns have signed DB Juston Burris (free agent), DL Trevon Coley (exclusive rights free agent), WR Rashard Higgins (restricted free agent) and DB Jermaine Whitehead (exclusive rights free agent). In addition, the club has waived DB Derrick Kindred, WR Ricardo Louis and DB Howard Wilson.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

I think we got the best we could given that Oggie was in the last year of his deal,

 Eric Murray was in the last year of his deal and he was a short corner who couldn't handle the slot and injuries forced them to start him, he didn't earn it.

Ogbah was a high second round pick  with loads of athletic ability who hadn't scratched the surface of his potential and had been dealing with injuries the past two years.  

Neither was on a path for a second contract but Ogbah earned his starting gig and had way higher upside and still does IMHO.