Cleveland Browns (8 Viewers)

[Bobcat10]

Great message sent since he's expendable whether Tate requested the release or not. Just hoping he doesn't catch on with Indy.

 

[nxmehta]

Good move. Tate really looked like he wasn't trying out there. No reason to carry dead weight around. Ray, does that mean we have a roster spot open for a freaking punt returner now?

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Our punt returns have been atrocious and have played roles in some losses and could have played roles if we had lost a few other games.

No question the punt return game is hurting the team and Tony Grossi makes a compelling case to sign KR/PR Josh Cribbs.

http://espncleveland.com/common/more.php?m=49&action=blog&r=17&post_id=39711

Ruling out Josh Cribbs, Browns ponder a Plan D to rescue their decaying punt return gameNov 11, 2014 -- 6:00am

The Morning Kickoff …

One to go: Putting out brushfires is in the job description of an NFL head coach. Here’s the lowdown on Mike Pettine’s rookie season through nine games:

Compensate for Josh Gordon 10-game suspension? Check.

Acclimate confused veteran-laden defense to a new system? Check.

Rejuvenate slumping long snapper? Check.

Recover from loss of Pro Bowl center? Check.

Now, about that punt return game -- the one averaging a league-low 3.2 yards per return. That is, when it’s not fumbling, muffing, fair-catching with running room ahead or trying in vain to catch punts inside the 5-yard line.

When Jim Leonhard fumbled in Cincinnati on Thursday night, he completed an ignominious trifecta. Each of the three players tried at punt returner – Travis Benjamin, Jordan Poyer, Leonhard – has fumbled.

Benjamin actually has a muff, a fumbled catch (erased by penalty) and a fumble on a return; Poyer had one bounce off his helmet visor; and now Leonhard, the dependable “punt catcher,” has lost one on a return, resulting in Cincinnati’s only points in the Browns’ 24-3 statement win.

“I almost don’t even watch special teams anymore,” sighed Josh Cribbs, who holds nine Browns franchise – and two NFL – return records.

Waiting for the call: Cribbs is the greatest special teams player in Browns history. Not just in expansion Browns history (since 1999), but in all of Browns history (since 1946).

Not only the franchise’s greatest returner with 11 punt and kickoff return touchdowns, but also its greatest gunner – a five-time special teams tackle leader in his eight seasons with the Browns. Cribbs “played like a Brown” before Pettine stole the phrase from Rex Ryan and substituted “Brown” for “Jet.”

Cribbs, 31, has remained in northeast Ohio since being released by the Browns after the 2012 season. He was released by Oakland in the 2013 training camp, then was signed by the Jets and, even at age 30, averaged 12.0 yards on punt returns in six games. Twelve-point-oh would almost equal the Browns’ longest punt return this year – 13 yards by Benjamin.

Cribbs said, “I want to play here. I’m almost … I’m going to turn down other teams because I want to stay in Cleveland. If I can’t play here, I’d probably rather retire. I really wish I could get a tryout and then I could retire as a Brown.

“They’re 32nd in the league. We have no place to go but up. Every year I was in top 10 in returns. Every year.

For two weeks, Cribbs’ name has brought tepid reaction from every person who could make it happen.

“Josh’s name hasn’t come up,” Pettine said on Oct. 27.

“I’m not in that decision-making process. I have to be concerned about the players that are here,” special teams coordinator Chris Tabor said on Oct. 30.

“I don’t think that I’m in that boat at this point in time,” said the Big Man, General Manager Ray Farmer, on Nov. 4.

Why not? I asked.

“I would ask, ‘Why should I?’” Farmer said.

To which I answered, “You have the worst punt return team in the league. He’s a franchise record-holder. He’s only 31.”

“Interesting,” Farmer responded. “I would say that the question becomes who do I want to let go to sign Josh Cribbs? Because it’s a balancing act. Do you sign someone and let go of another guy to play a role or do you keep the guys that have multiple roles?”

“It’s unfortunate man,” Cribbs said. “They need to give me a chance. I’m kind of sad by it. I’ve been instrumental to the city and the team. Just give me a tryout. You don’t even need to pick me.”

The night before the Browns played the Bengals, Farmer dined with Peter Shaffer, Cribbs’ agent, at the upscale Jeff Ruby’s Steakhouse in Cincinnati. It could have been to discuss other business. Shaffer also represents other Browns, notably Joe Thomas and Phil Taylor.

This week, Cribbs received calls from an AFC coach whose team is in the thick of the playoff hunt.

It wasn’t the Browns’ Pettine.

Where to go from here: The Browns insist they will fix the problem internally, without going outside for help. Possibilities include rookie receiver Taylor Gabriel, who returned punts at Abilene Christian University but was used only on kickoffs in the Browns’ preseason, and rookie first-round cornerback Justin Gilbert, who had six career kickoff return touchdowns at Oklahoma State but only eight punt returns his freshman year.

Cribbs would give the ball back to Benjamin, who set two Browns punt return records last year and owns two return TDs in his career.

Benjamin’s stunning decline as a returner (5 returns for 9 yards, plus the aforementioned three muffs or fumbles) is amazing when you consider he is having his best season as receiver (14 receptions for 246 yards, 17.6 average, and team-high three receiving TDs).

“I think he needs another chance,” Cribbs said. “I’ve muffed punts before. But the way this regime does it, apparently those turnovers, they hate that.

“His confidence is there. They just need to believe in him. Ball security is job security. If you can’t catch the ball, you won’t be back there. I think he may have done it one too many times. And they may have lost faith in him, not necessarily him losing faith. I think he should be back there. They need more help on offensive field position.”

For the longest time, special teams were the most exciting unit of Browns teams. Now they are the reason to cover your eyes. But the Browns are in first place, partly because Pettine has put out the fires everywhere else.

That was yesterday, last night PFT reported Josh got a workout from the Colts.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/11/11/josh-cribbs-gets-a-tryout-in-indy/

Josh Cribbs gets a tryout in IndyPosted by Mike Florio on November 11, 2014, 9:39 PM EST
Free-agent receiver Josh Cribbs has been available for anyone to sign, ever since free agency opened in March. On Tuesday, he got a rare sniff from a team trying out players.

Per a league source, Cribbs had a workout for the Colts. Joining him was receiver Willie Snead and defensive tackle Ben Bass.

Cribbs played for the Jets in 2013, after being cut by the Raiders in August. The Browns had cut Cribbs in March of that same year.

Cleveland’s MVP in 2009, Cribbs in his prime served as a versatile weapon, returning punts and kicks, running the ball, catching the ball, and playing a little quarterback from time to time.

He hasn’t been signed by the Colts. As more and more players suffer injuries throughout the league, however, Cribbs name could keep floating to the top of the free-agent lists.

Yesterday we made a cut and a signing on the waiver wire of FBs that reversed that transaction from a month ago but for a second I thought we cut FB Keiro Small to make room for Cribbs but last night we made ANOTHER cut and haven't picked up anyone yet, so..........

-------------------------

Browns | Jacobbi McDaniel released Tue Nov 11, 06:44 PM

The Cleveland Browns released DT Jacobbi McDaniel Tuesday, Nov. 11.

Looks from Cribbs Twitter account like he is going to sign with the Colts.

======================================================

TeamCribbs @TeamCribbs 40m

Hey @Colts fans..... #TeamCribbs @JoshCribbs16 #LetsDoThis twitter.com

 

[Bracie Smathers]

They did.

=======

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/11/18/colts-sign-josh-cribbs/

Colts sign Josh CribbsPosted by Michael David Smith on November 18, 2014, 12:05 PM EST

 

[The Man With No Name]

Matt Waldman's "Gut Check" article has some Browns musings in it this week.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

Sam Farmer , Los Angeles Times, NFL Writer
Ironic matchup of the week (as pointed out by excellent NFL editor Athan Atsales): Last place Browns (6-4) vs. first place Falcons (4-6)

 

[Bobcat10]

Sheard went from probably out for the year to maybe missing just a game or playing this week. Per RapSheet. Quite a turn of events there!

And now Dansby!

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Man, Gilbert didnt even play a single defensive snap yesterday.

Makes me even angrier now that we passed on both Watkins, or more importantly, Evans...

Sure, he's gotten better as the season progressed, but not enough, and now he's seemingly in the doghouse since he wasnt listed as injured all week

K'Waun Williams was great yesterday.

Gilbert didn't play a single snap against Houston, part of that was due to Houston running so much but part was this kid has struggled so we're all wondering if this kid is a bust or not. When Gilbert was drafted I was not happy so the night of the draft I stayed up late pouring over everything that Farmer and Pettine were saying about him and after hearing their reasoning I came away convinced that he was the perfect fit for Pettine's system but obviously the kid hasn't done anything yet.

This article gives some insight but as an aside Pro Bowl CB Joe Haden struggled in the first six/seven games. He looked like he lost it but his troubles may have been related to overall breakdowns due to a new defensive system being installed and players not being up on terminology, etc., the point being that even Joe Haden looked bad early before settling down.

The article notes that K'Waun Williams is playing well and much to the credit of DC Jim O'Neil he isn't swayed by draft status and is playing the guy who is playing better but K'Waun doesn't play the same position that Gilbert does, K'Waun plays nickel not cornerback. Justin Gilbert would need to beat out Buster Skrine and Buster had his best game against Cincinnati where he had two picks so Buster has been playing well lately.

Gilbert got by on athletic ability in college and he didn't learn or understand technique that he's learning in the NFL.

Considering Joe Haden struggled for six/seven games and that he's not a rookie learning technique but Gilbert was drafted due to his length and speed and athleticism and he can and should learn technique their is still hope.

I doubt he beats out Skrine so long as we're still in playoff contention and considering how well K'Waun and Skrine have been playinghe can learn at his own pace so consider this a red shirt season.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/11/browns_jim_oneil_on_no_8_pick.html#incart_social_feature

Browns' Jim O'Neil on No. 8 pick Justin Gilbert not playing: 'He's our 4th corner, that's where he fits on the totem pole'

BEREA, Ohio -- Browns undrafted rookie cornerback K'Waun Williams has played so well this season that he's keeping his road roomie and No. 8 overall pick Justin Gilbert plastered to the bench.

Last week against Houston -- a full 10 games into the season -- Gilbert didn't play even one defensive snap, while Williams played 67 percent of them. It was a far cry from the beginning of the season, when Gilbert played 83 percent of the time in Pittsburgh and 67 percent against the Saints.

"I don't get caught up in the No. 8 overall pick stuff,'' said Browns defensive coordinator Jim O'Neil. "I would say that K'Waun Williams has earned the right to be on the field. I think that you'd struggle to find a corner that was drafted this past year playing at a higher level than K'Waun Williams right now. It's just hard to keep K'Waun off the field. He makes plays in critical situations so he's earned the right to be out there.''

Williams, signed as a free agent out of Pitt, has locked down the demanding nickelback position, while Gilbert, an outside corner, hasn't been good enough to beat out either Joe Haden or Buster Skrine. Many thought Gilbert would be starting outside by now and Skrine would've moved inside to cover the slot.

"For Justin to get on the field more, he's got to outplay either Joe Haden or Buster Skrine,'' said O'Neil. "We're going to put our best 11 out there. I wouldn't say anything major is lacking. It's just right now we feel like our best three corners out in the game are K'Waun, Buster and Joe. He's our fourth corner right now. That's where he fits on the totem pole."

Gilbert admitted that he's struggled to adapt to the pro game.

"I think it's one of the hardest positions on the field,'' he said. "A lot of people might not realize that. No matter how good you are, it's a big technique position and it's something I really haven't mastered yet.''

He said he can't get caught up in living up to the expectations of a top-10 pick.

"Exactly,'' he said. "That's why I don't comment on anything like that. I just go out there and practice every day and try my best to do what the team wants me to do and not worry about where I was picked. That's nothing I can control.''

O'Neil stressed that the Browns still have high hopes for their first round pick out of Oklahoma State. Gilbert and coach Mike Pettine both cited a foot/heel injury as the reason Gilbert didn't play last week, but he didn't appear on the injury report.

"Like I said, I'm not down on Justin, I'm just really high on K'Waun,'' said O'Neil. "If they'd let us play with 12, I'd play with 12 (laughter), and he'd be out there."

If not for Williams, the Browns may have been forced to play Gilbert before his time, but the upstart rookie, lured here by his former Pitt and current Browns assistant Jeff Hafley, has enabled Gilbert to develop at his own pace. During last week's 23-7 loss to Houston, Williams was one of the bright spots, racing across the field to break up a pass in the end zone, hitting quarterback Ryan Mallett once and totaling seven tackles.

"Last year when we were in Buffalo, we found Nickell Robey post-draft, and he took every snap for us last year as a nickel,'' said O'Neil. "This year, we were lucky enough to find K'Waun. I think the coaches are doing a great job with him, but it's a testament to the kid. He came, worked his way all the way from the bottom to the top, and like I said, he's playing at a really high level right now.''

O'Neil acknowledged that it's a feat to nail down the nickel job in this system, which demands a lot from the position.

"To come into this system where it's a lot of man coverage, you've got to blitz, you've got to play zone,'' he said. "A lot of teams have excellent slot receivers where those guys have three-way go's on you. It's a hard position to play in our defense. It really is, and K'Waun has come in and done a hell of a job. I can't tell you how excited I am about him and how excited I am that he chose us post-draft."

O'Neil was quick to point out that Gilbert is progressing despite his lack of snaps.

"He's still doing a good job in practice,'' said O'Neil. "He's doing a good job in the meeting room. Justin was a part of the plan last week, but it obviously became a little more of a running attack against Houston. This week could be a little bit different. This team likes to play a lot more three- and four-wide receiver sets so Justin is a part of the game plan. It's not anything Justin isn't doing. It's just K'Waun is playing so well in practice and so well when he gets a chance in the games."

Pettine didn't make any promises about Gilbert seeing significant time in Atlanta -- against the likes of big receivers Roddy White and Julio Jones.

"They'll put a lot of wide receivers out there – three wide-receiver sets, four-wide receiver sets,'' said Pettine. "With the amount that they throw the ball, I could see – and a lot of it depends on their plan and how they plan to attack us – there are some scenarios where I could see Justin being out there."

Gilbert, who's started only two games this season, said he didn't play last week because he was still ailing from the heel injury he suffered the week before in Cincinnati. He added that it's slowly getting better.

"I really didn't plan on getting too much playing time in that aspect, because I can only run forward,'' he said. "I was struggling in practice trying to come in and out of my breaks. And then 'Waun's been playing well also, so it wasn't really too much of a slack.''

He said he had no expectations for cracking the lineup.

"Really I don't worry about starting right now,'' he said. "For the team to win games is the main key right now and get to the playoffs."

Gilbert admitted that he didn't need much technique at Oklahoma State and relied on his athletic ability. Now, he's working specifically on things such as getting his hands on receivers early at the line to disrupt their routes and playing with his back to the line of scrimmage.

"As far as running downfield when the ball is in the air, getting my head around, following the ball in the air, as long as I do that I think I'll be pretty well off and be able to make plays on the ball,'' he said.

He said he still thinks he can make an impact this season despite only six games remaining.

"Most definitely,'' he said. "I feel we have a good shot of making a run in the playoffs, so we still have a lot of games left, but within this six-game stretch I think I can make an incredible amount of plays on the defensive end."

He added that he understands why Williams is on the field so much.

"He works hard,'' said Gilbert, who also studies film for about an hour a night. "It's showing on the field. He makes unbelievable plays on the ball. He studies hard. He's my roommate away games, home games. I wake up he's in there watching film. It's eight o'clock, nine o'clock in the morning. You can tell he's dedicated to the game."

Williams said he hasn't had to try to help Gilbert keep his head up.

"Coach does a great job with handling all of our players,'' said Williams. "Justin's a great kid, man. He definitely can ball. He's a baller. But right now, they like the matchup in the slot and I just go out and do what I've got to do.''

 

[ghostguy123]

Wow.

Hoyer is both the most and least clutch QB all at the same time.

I dont mind the last INT on third down and 35 yards down the field, but the INT in the endzone was the worst mistake ever.

Made up for it though. No joke i think he gets benched if they dont win it at the end.

 

[amnesiac]

yeah it's wild.

he played like dog#### today.

but still did enough to win.

i've been a huge supporter of his, but agree if he had lost, he definitely could've been benched.

hopeful that another week of practice with Gordon leads to better play next week.

 

[ghostguy123]

yeah it's wild.

he played like dog#### today.

but still did enough to win.

i've been a huge supporter of his, but agree if he had lost, he definitely could've been benched.

hopeful that another week of practice with Gordon leads to better play next week.

 Yeah, Gordon had a couple bad screwups on the INTs also. Hopefully something they iron out a bit.

Gordon cant go wrong thinking the ball is coming his way every play

 

[Soulfly3]

Hoyer and Gordon need this week to clean up the roughness.

It was expected there'd be some hitches, but there were a few more than I thought there'd be...

regardless, he was clutch again, and Gordon has his eye. The really great thing it guys like Austin and Hawkins and especially the Crow are keeping defenses honest.

 

[ghostguy123]

Hoyer and Gordon need this week to clean up the roughness.

It was expected there'd be some hitches, but there were a few more than I thought there'd be...

regardless, he was clutch again, and Gordon has his eye. The really great thing it guys like Austin and Hawkins and especially the Crow are keeping defenses honest.

That and Atlanta is maybe both the worst and dumbest team in the league.

 

[Soulfly3]

Hoyer and Gordon need this week to clean up the roughness.

It was expected there'd be some hitches, but there were a few more than I thought there'd be...

regardless, he was clutch again, and Gordon has his eye. The really great thing it guys like Austin and Hawkins and especially the Crow are keeping defenses honest.

That and Atlanta is maybe both the worst and dumbest team in the league.

No matter what we think of them, they were the no1 team in their division. And we beat 'em.

Hoyer just needs to calm himself... I dont think he was used to a Gordon on the field.

 

[ghostguy123]

Hoyer and Gordon need this week to clean up the roughness.

It was expected there'd be some hitches, but there were a few more than I thought there'd be...

regardless, he was clutch again, and Gordon has his eye. The really great thing it guys like Austin and Hawkins and especially the Crow are keeping defenses honest.

That and Atlanta is maybe both the worst and dumbest team in the league.

No matter what we think of them, they were the no1 team in their division. And we beat 'em.

Hoyer just needs to calm himself... I dont think he was used to a Gordon on the field.

 It is definitely nice that we are good enough to still be able to win on occasion when we play like crap.

 

[ghostguy123]

Hoyer just needs to calm himself... I dont think he was used to a Gordon on the field.

 Although, this doesnt make much sense to me. Hoyer hasnt been playing well for over a month

 

[ghostguy123]

Don't get me wrong though, not many Qbs would thrive with Gordon and Cameron out all season and your WR/TE crew is mostly misfit toys.

But what is he at like 47% completion percentage now? Lot of bad passes the last 4-5 games.

He will surely be better with Gordon now, and then when Cameron is back, we'll see how much.

Although I dont think we would have seen it had we lost today.

 

[Bobcat10]

I agree, ghost. He hasn't been playing well...and all anyone that supports him can say is, "well he's winning" or "what's his record". He should have a great completion percentage throwing outs and crosses to possession and underneath type WRs (that's what Hawkins, Gabriel and Austin are) while minimizing turnovers. That's not happening lately.

So in the end we can win in spite of our QB...personally I think that is awesome...it means we have a good team. Looking forward to the playoff push!

 

[Riversco]

Hoyer is quite a dilemma.

He misses throws. He even had 3 turnovers. But with the game on the line, he turned into Tom Brady and rallied the Browns back to win yet again.

Would rather have a QB that throws 3 TDs every game but wilts with the game on the line and makes boneheaded throws when you need them the most, or a QB that maybe throws 1 TD, sometimes throws 2-3 INTs, and yet is nails at the end of the game and leads a comeback win.

There's a lot of QBs who you would expect to wilt in the situation at the end of the game today. But you expected Hoyer to win the game in that situation, and he did.

 

[beer 30]

Hoyer is quite a dilemma.

He misses throws. He even had 3 turnovers. But with the game on the line, he turned into Tom Brady and rallied the Browns back to win yet again.

Would rather have a QB that throws 3 TDs every game but wilts with the game on the line and makes boneheaded throws when you need them the most, or a QB that maybe throws 1 TD, sometimes throws 2-3 INTs, and yet is nails at the end of the game and leads a comeback win.

There's a lot of QBs who you would expect to wilt in the situation at the end of the game today. But you expected Hoyer to win the game in that situation, and he did.

Nailed it

YOU'RE MY BOY BLUE!!!!!

 

[Bobcat10]

Hoyer is quite a dilemma.

He misses throws. He even had 3 turnovers. But with the game on the line, he turned into Tom Brady and rallied the Browns back to win yet again.

Would rather have a QB that throws 3 TDs every game but wilts with the game on the line and makes boneheaded throws when you need them the most, or a QB that maybe throws 1 TD, sometimes throws 2-3 INTs, and yet is nails at the end of the game and leads a comeback win.

There's a lot of QBs who you would expect to wilt in the situation at the end of the game today. But you expected Hoyer to win the game in that situation, and he did.

Definitely one of the quality traits of Hoyer is he's a gamer and doesn't back down. No quit. He's confident. He's intelligent. I don't discount his time behind Brady one bit. I expected him to do exactly what he did at the end of the game with about 45 sec and time outs...against the worst pass defense in the league, playing "prevent", or soft, defense. I also expected better results for 3.5 quarters against that same defense.

 

[Soulfly3]

Still think Hoyer is loads better than what he's showing.

Hopefully this win gives him complete confidence, and a healthy Gordon helps the entire offense.

Two passing TDs minimum next week. Calling it now.

 

[The Man With No Name]

A win is a win. Doesn't matter how or who it was against. It's the NFL. Not supposed to be easy to beat anyone. And they have done it more often than not this season.

Don't forget the last 6 seasons and how awful they were. Josh Gordon is back, Cameron will be back soon, and with them both on the field it will help the entire team. Offense, defense and special teams.

 

[GridironMenace]

Crowell with 12 rushes while Hoyer throws picks and makes bad decisions in a game Cleveland was winning. WTF. Also, get off of Terrance West- he's hot garbage. FEED THE CROW!

 

[ghostguy123]

A win is a win. Doesn't matter how or who it was against. It's the NFL. Not supposed to be easy to beat anyone. And they have done it more often than not this season.

Don't forget the last 6 seasons and how awful they were. Josh Gordon is back, Cameron will be back soon, and with them both on the field it will help the entire team. Offense, defense and special teams.

A win is a win, but this isn't sustainable. It's like Tebow. Not as bad............but bad.

 

[Ojaays]

Hoyer and Gordon need this week to clean up the roughness.

It was expected there'd be some hitches, but there were a few more than I thought there'd be...

regardless, he was clutch again, and Gordon has his eye. The really great thing it guys like Austin and Hawkins and especially the Crow are keeping defenses honest.

That and Atlanta is maybe both the worst and dumbest team in the league.

No matter what we think of them, they were the no1 team in their division. And we beat 'em.

Hoyer just needs to calm himself... I dont think he was used to a Gordon on the field.

ATL came into the game ranked 32nd in pass Defense.

The game was a gimme for any capable QB, Hoyer made it into a massive struggle.

Gordon helps the run game, Gordon does not help Hoyer.

BH missed a wide open Gordon badly several times.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Congrats, Browns fans - always great to get a road win, no matter how it came about. Not Hoyer's best day but he got it done in crunch time.

Pulling hard for Cleveland this year. Would be great to see them win the division title. Tons of injuries but good teams find a way to overcome that, and win games (like yesterday) they don't really deserve to win.

 

[Jerry Curl]

Clarence Hill retweeted
Dustin Fox ‏@DustinFox37 4m4 minutes ago
Welp. RT @KeithBritton86: Just found out police report for Manziel's incident at The 9 has Johnny throwing the punch at victim.

Clarence Hill retweeted
Zac Jackson ‏@FSOhioZJackson 12m12 minutes ago
Cleveland Police were called at 2:36 a.m. Most people know nothing good happens after 2:34 http://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-heard/archives/2014/11/24/police-report-johnny-manziel-involved-in-massive-fight-late-friday-night-at-the-9-in-downtown-cleveland …

http://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-heard/archives/2014/11/24/police-report-johnny-manziel-involved-in-massive-fight-late-friday-night-at-the-9-in-downtown-cleveland

 

[Soulfly3]

Hoyer and Gordon need this week to clean up the roughness.

It was expected there'd be some hitches, but there were a few more than I thought there'd be...

regardless, he was clutch again, and Gordon has his eye. The really great thing it guys like Austin and Hawkins and especially the Crow are keeping defenses honest.

That and Atlanta is maybe both the worst and dumbest team in the league.

No matter what we think of them, they were the no1 team in their division. And we beat 'em.

Hoyer just needs to calm himself... I dont think he was used to a Gordon on the field.

ATL came into the game ranked 32nd in pass Defense.

The game was a gimme for any capable QB, Hoyer made it into a massive struggle.

Gordon helps the run game, Gordon does not help Hoyer.

BH missed a wide open Gordon badly several times.

Hoyer did miss him many times - but Ill forgive it their first week back together... Next week, less forgiving, and in 2 weeks, no forgiveness.

Thing is, as bad as ATL has been, they're still leading their division. They were the home team. And we NEEDED to win... and we did.

Hoyer wont get away w many games like that, but thanks to having Gordon back, and a much improved run game, we did....

Im telling you... Hoyer is gonna be better. Much better

 

[The Man With No Name]

Clarence Hill retweeted
Dustin Fox ‏@DustinFox37 4m4 minutes ago
Welp. RT @KeithBritton86: Just found out police report for Manziel's incident at The 9 has Johnny throwing the punch at victim.

Clarence Hill retweeted
Zac Jackson ‏@FSOhioZJackson 12m12 minutes ago
Cleveland Police were called at 2:36 a.m. Most people know nothing good happens after 2:34 http://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-heard/archives/2014/11/24/police-report-johnny-manziel-involved-in-massive-fight-late-friday-night-at-the-9-in-downtown-cleveland …

http://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-heard/archives/2014/11/24/police-report-johnny-manziel-involved-in-massive-fight-late-friday-night-at-the-9-in-downtown-cleveland

The guy was coming towards him for some unknown reason and his guys stepped in to make sure Johnny didn't get hurt.

That's my take. The guy could have pulled a knife or a gun.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

ATL came into the game ranked 32nd in pass Defense.

The game was a gimme for any capable QB, Hoyer made it into a massive struggle.

Gordon helps the run game, Gordon does not help Hoyer.

BH missed a wide open Gordon badly several times.

The week prior against Houston Hoyer was flat till he got clocked by Brian Cushing late in the fourth quarter and THEN he seemed to catch-fire.

Against Atlanta he was hot garbage till the final 44 seconds. I went back to look and he was incredible on those four throws to move the ball down into FG range. I mean tight-TIGHT windows on three of the four throws he made and he stepped-up and avoided pressure on the long throw to Gordon to push the ball past mid-field.

It got me thinking about what Hoyer said after the Pittsburgh game which came after the Browns had the largest come-from-behind road victory in NFL history the week before in Tennessee.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/10/why_this_win_over_the_pittsbur.html

... I knew the crowd would be crazy. They did a great job. Even when it was 31-3, they stayed in it ...

... "It was a little boring for me at the end,'

And don't forget the huge attempt to come-from-behind in week-one against Pittsburgh or the come-from-behind win against New Orleans and the failed blown lead and failed come-from-behind attempt against Baltimore.

He not only is calm and thrives under pressure he seems to need drama in some respect to get going because the Atlanta game should not have been that close at the end.

The accuracy issues and bad throws seem to disappear when he's in a do-or-die situation but come on lets see Brian with some killer instinct where consistently puts teams away earlier when he's got the chance.

Boring blowouts work for me.

 

[Ojaays]

ATL came into the game ranked 32nd in pass Defense.

The game was a gimme for any capable QB, Hoyer made it into a massive struggle.

Gordon helps the run game, Gordon does not help Hoyer.

BH missed a wide open Gordon badly several times.

The week prior against Houston Hoyer was flat till he got clocked by Brian Cushing late in the fourth quarter and THEN he seemed to catch-fire.

Against Atlanta he was hot garbage till the final 44 seconds. I went back to look and he was incredible on those four throws to move the ball down into FG range. I mean tight-TIGHT windows on three of the four throws he made and he stepped-up and avoided pressure on the long throw to Gordon to push the ball past mid-field.

It got me thinking about what Hoyer said after the Pittsburgh game which came after the Browns had the largest come-from-behind road victory in NFL history the week before in Tennessee.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/10/why_this_win_over_the_pittsbur.html

... I knew the crowd would be crazy. They did a great job. Even when it was 31-3, they stayed in it ...

... "It was a little boring for me at the end,'

And don't forget the huge attempt to come-from-behind in week-one against Pittsburgh or the come-from-behind win against New Orleans and the failed blown lead and failed come-from-behind attempt against Baltimore.

He not only is calm and thrives under pressure he seems to need drama in some respect to get going because the Atlanta game should not have been that close at the end.

The accuracy issues and bad throws seem to disappear when he's in a do-or-die situation but come on lets see Brian with some killer instinct where consistently puts teams away earlier when he's got the chance.

Boring blowouts work for me.

Fine, can the Browns get a Hypnotist to convince Hoyer they are down by 3 scores every time he takes the field?

I need Gordon to max out, he only got half of what he should have vs ATL.

 

[Soulfly3]

Gordon will be doing 1 on 1 interview w Nate Burleson this Sunday on NFL Network

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Is Dansby doing any work? Been a week since Ive heard anything about his status.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Pettine's post game comments leave the QB door wide open.

Said he's got to look at the film and any decision is based on who gives the team the best chance to win.

We have officially entered QB competition thunderdome.

 

[MAC_32]

Pettine's post game comments leave the QB door wide open.

Said he's got to look at the film and any decision is based on who gives the team the best chance to win.

We have officially entered QB competition thunderdome.

its going to be Johnny, his teammates left him out to dry but instead of rallying he went into dgaf mode.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Pettine was emotional and I'm giving him a pass on anything he says right now.

I honestly have no clue, none, but the same can be said for Indianapolis who probably don't know who they'll face till Sunday and I think Pettine should keep it under his hat.

I honestly don't know who gets the start Sunday and its not a good feeling.

 

[Riversco]

If the Browns really switch to Johnny Football, that has to alter the purpose of their season. It is no longer about making the playoffs. Now the primary goal is the development of Johnny Football. That means you don't bench him if he struggles later in the year for Hoyer again. You leave him in there. A very real possibility of him taking a slow curve of 2-3 years before being good.

If they make the switch, its accepting being back in a rebuilding mode for the sake of developing a QB prospect. You kiss the playoffs goodbye for the greater good of developing him.

I'm sure the Browns don't want to consider that. They'd rather Hoyer played well enough to keep the job and make the playoff push. But now, that's probably done, and you could be looking at a lot of losses in the immediate future as the kid takes his lumps.

Sure, maybe he plays great and never looks back. But if he doesn't, you have to just sit there and take it for 2-3 years, hoping he improves.

 

[MAC_32]

A Hoyer led offense matches up well with Indy, but he is regressing badly.

That said, he seems to play his best with the back against the wall, so if he does get the nod I'm cautiously optimistic. Just not expecting it, not after how he played when things went awry this week. He gave the coaches a reason to look at his backup as this is the third game this has happened and he hasn't been good enough in the others.

 

[Mr. Retukes]

If the Browns really switch to Johnny Football, that has to alter the purpose of their season. It is no longer about making the playoffs. Now the primary goal is the development of Johnny Football. That means you don't bench him if he struggles later in the year for Hoyer again.

If the coach thinks Manziel gives the team the best chance of making the playoffs, then Manziel will start.

If Manziel struggles -- and the team is still in the playoff hunt -- then Hoyer WILL return to the lineup.

There isn't a coach on this planet who would insist on playing an ineffective rookie QB while a team's playoff chances frittered away.

 

[flapgreen]

Manziel is such an idiot

 

[MAC_32]

Manziel is such an idiot

it begins. ..

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

If the Browns really switch to Johnny Football, that has to alter the purpose of their season. It is no longer about making the playoffs. Now the primary goal is the development of Johnny Football. That means you don't bench him if he struggles later in the year for Hoyer again.

If the coach thinks Manziel gives the team the best chance of making the playoffs, then Manziel will start.

If Manziel struggles -- and the team is still in the playoff hunt -- then Hoyer WILL return to the lineup.

There isn't a coach on this planet who would insist on playing an ineffective rookie QB while a team's playoff chances frittered away.

Well how many games does it take? That division is so tight one loss could make all the difference.

 

[Mr. Retukes]

If the Browns really switch to Johnny Football, that has to alter the purpose of their season. It is no longer about making the playoffs. Now the primary goal is the development of Johnny Football. That means you don't bench him if he struggles later in the year for Hoyer again.

If the coach thinks Manziel gives the team the best chance of making the playoffs, then Manziel will start.

If Manziel struggles -- and the team is still in the playoff hunt -- then Hoyer WILL return to the lineup.

There isn't a coach on this planet who would insist on playing an ineffective rookie QB while a team's playoff chances frittered away.

Well how many games does it take? That division is so tight one loss could make all the difference.

Manziel will either play like Tebow and pull a few games out of his butt, or he'll play like Tebow and get benched for the year. Still plenty of time for Hoyer to come to the rescue.

 

[Kilgore]

If the Browns really switch to Johnny Football, that has to alter the purpose of their season. It is no longer about making the playoffs. Now the primary goal is the development of Johnny Football. That means you don't bench him if he struggles later in the year for Hoyer again.

If the coach thinks Manziel gives the team the best chance of making the playoffs, then Manziel will start.

If Manziel struggles -- and the team is still in the playoff hunt -- then Hoyer WILL return to the lineup.

There isn't a coach on this planet who would insist on playing an ineffective rookie QB while a team's playoff chances frittered away.

Well how many games does it take? That division is so tight one loss could make all the difference.

It might come down to one game, and Hoyer pissed away at least THREE, with his horribly play against Jax, Houston, and Buffalo. And he sure as hell TRIED to piss away the Atlanta game... THAT'S why JFF is worth the risk here.

 

[nxmehta]

If the Browns really switch to Johnny Football, that has to alter the purpose of their season. It is no longer about making the playoffs. Now the primary goal is the development of Johnny Football. That means you don't bench him if he struggles later in the year for Hoyer again.

If the coach thinks Manziel gives the team the best chance of making the playoffs, then Manziel will start.

If Manziel struggles -- and the team is still in the playoff hunt -- then Hoyer WILL return to the lineup.

There isn't a coach on this planet who would insist on playing an ineffective rookie QB while a team's playoff chances frittered away.

Well how many games does it take? That division is so tight one loss could make all the difference.

It might come down to one game, and Hoyer pissed away at least THREE, with his horribly play against Jax, Houston, and Buffalo. And he sure as hell TRIED to piss away the Atlanta game... THAT'S why JFF is worth the risk here.

I don't think that is fair. You're not counting the wins that he essentially pulled out of his rear. Plus the huge divisional blowout wins.

Hoyer can play. Yes, he's been playing poorly lately, but who the hell knows if Johnny is any better?

 

[Jerry Curl]

I cant believe some Browns fans think a rookie QB gives them the best chance to win especially after Hoyer has led this team to a 7-5 record and doing well without Gordon, since he has come back and was TOLD (I assume) to feed the ball to Gordon he has played badly.

The hype will come back to bite Cleveland, especially when they have a shot at the playoffs. The NFL is going to eat Johnny alive, starting next week against Indy if he gets the start.

 

[FUBAR]

If the Browns really switch to Johnny Football, that has to alter the purpose of their season. It is no longer about making the playoffs. Now the primary goal is the development of Johnny Football. That means you don't bench him if he struggles later in the year for Hoyer again.

If the coach thinks Manziel gives the team the best chance of making the playoffs, then Manziel will start.

If Manziel struggles -- and the team is still in the playoff hunt -- then Hoyer WILL return to the lineup.

There isn't a coach on this planet who would insist on playing an ineffective rookie QB while a team's playoff chances frittered away.

Well how many games does it take? That division is so tight one loss could make all the difference.

It might come down to one game, and Hoyer pissed away at least THREE, with his horribly play against Jax, Houston, and Buffalo. And he sure as hell TRIED to piss away the Atlanta game... THAT'S why JFF is worth the risk here.

I don't think that is fair. You're not counting the wins that he essentially pulled out of his rear. Plus the huge divisional blowout wins.

Hoyer can play. Yes, he's been playing poorly lately, but who the hell knows if Johnny is any better?

When the Browns best players have been out since October, losing to Houston and Buffalo - one of which has the best defensive lineman in the game, the other has the best pass rush as a team, shouldn't be a surprise. Losing Mack and Cameron very easily could have derailed the team for the season. Instead, the Browns have a winning record since losing these two pro bowlers. A lot of that credit should go to Hoyer.

Putting Johnny in now will be entertaining to most fans, but I'd be very skeptical about the team's chances to make the playoffs and if I were a fan of the team I would not want this move right now.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

After the game on NFL Network Deon Sanders said that Hoyer isn't going through his progressions but he's first looking to WR Josh Gordon and the numbers since Gordon has been back seem to back that up but Hoyer's slump goes back longer.

QB Brian Hoyer has only thrown 1 TD in the last 16 quarters. First eight games he threw 10 TD passes against 4 interceptions but in the last four games he's thrown 1 TD against 6 interceptions. Over those first eight games his QB Passer Rating averaged 94.61 and if you throw out the ONLY GAME he had a clunker, the Jags game 46.3 where he had his worst QB Passer Rating after the Alex Mack injury when the team had to go with Jon Greco, a guard playing center (first and only time his career) which created two holes since we put in a rookie guard into Greco's spot.

If you take out the one bad game over the first eight games and use the other seven Hoyer's QB Passer Rating would be a staggering 101.51

Now lets take a look at Hoyer's QB Pass Rating over the last four games

CIN - 92.3

HOU - 61.3

ATL - 52.3

BUF - 51.0

Not only trending in the wrong direction but averaging 64.22 and if you take out the lone good game against Nati the average plummets to 54.86.

This wasn't a trend based solely on Josh Gordon but I do think JG is a contributing factor. I think the Alex Mack injury is a huge culprit because his QB Passer Rating was over 102 with Mack but is 71.44 without Mack, over a 30 point differential.

In yesterday's game we were starting TE Gary Barnage in place of Pro Bowl TE Jordan Cameron and we were starting backup center Nick McDonald in place of Pro Bowl center Alex Mack. Both were downgrades but were 'adequately' filling in however we lost BOTH of the backups early in the game which royally screwed things up.

Normal injuries can be overcome in time. Nick McDonald was playing significantly better than he was earlier but losing the backup to TWO Pro Bowlers and going with 3rd stringers is a bit much to ask.

Make of the numbers what you may but the loss of Alex Mack significantly impacted the offense and dropping a talent like JG into the mix when he's not up on the offense has also put a monkey wrench into things even before trying to factor in the loss of TE Jordan Cameron.

Next year if, Mack, Josh Gordon, Jordan Cameron, and Brian Hoyer ALL begin the season and are healthy and if the team wisely invests some draft picks at the, WR, TE, O-Line positions, to have better than 'adequate' backups then we can win with Hoyer but right now we have to try to win with the best QB and if we find ourselves out of playoff contention we should try to find out what we have with Manziel because the slump with Hoyer is real and its hurting the team so if the coaches decide Manziel gives the best chance to win I dunno if can disagree because we haven't seen what Johnny can do and Brian is in a slump.

 

[nxmehta]

On a side note... I really don't think Terrance West has the right mentality to be an NFL RB. He's trying to break every run to the house, which is causing him to dance before hitting holes and he is WAY too loose with the football. Look at the big fumble he had on Sunday- the ball was very far away from his chest AND he was trying to switch hands.

What he doesn't understand is that if you don't play every down like you are the starter even though you are the backup, you're going to press and make mistakes. The mistakes are the reason that you are a backup and getting even fewer carries. Stop trying to play every carry like it's the one that will decide whether or not you ever see another snap. Take the yards that are given otherwise you'll just be demoted down to RB3.