Cleveland Browns (3 Viewers)

[Bobcat10]

I often thought (assumed?) that Crow was a 2 down back with Duke coming in in 3rd downs.  Wonder if that plays into it.  Could also be that the offense was in such a deep hole in yardage they were forced to throw more and run less.

Games in 2017 I think I remember them having a lead: NYJ, IND, PITT, and GB.  I could be wrong.

I think it's MINN, not IND.  We were winning most of the 1st half.

 

[Bobcat10]

And that's an interesting one....we only possessed the ball for 22 minutes and Crow went 11-64 while Duke went 6-33.  We were winning more than half the game and we ended up down 7 after the 3rd.

 

[Biabreakable]

I think it's MINN, not IND.  We were winning most of the 1st half.

I think this is correct. It was a difficult first half for the Vikings in Europe. Had Mike Remmers concussed right away in the game.

 

[Hankmoody]

Rushing Passing
Score Differential #Pl ToGo Yds Att Yds Y/A TD 1D Cmp Att Cmp% Yds Y/A TD Int Sk 1D Rate ANY/A
Leading 62 8.37 5.84 31 174 5.6 0 7 17 30 56.7 124 4.1 2 2 1 9 61.0 2.4 All Browns plays when Leading
Tied 179 9.29 5.28 95 372 3.9 2 26 36 77 46.8 356 4.6 1 3 7 14 48.4 2.9 All Browns plays when Tied
Trailing 767 8.92 7.03 258 1167 4.5 9 70 259 467 55.5 2763 5.9 12 23 42 136 61.0 3.9 All Browns plays when Trailin

This is a pretty good look at it.  Leading or tied they only ran the ball 50% of the time.  With a terrible rookie QB they still let him throw 1/2 the time they were in "keep them off the field and put some points on the board" mode.

I would also suggest breaking it down to plays they were trailing by 14 or fewer points, if possible.  That's really the "abandoning the run" watershed in my mind.  An NFL head coach should be very confident thinking "if we score here, we're only down one possession and the entire playbook is still open" when down 14 or fewer.  Even in Cleveland, because it's not like the talent level in the run game is substandard.  They are at least an adequate OLine and RB talent.

 

[Bobcat10]

This is a pretty good look at it.  Leading or tied they only ran the ball 50% of the time.  With a terrible rookie QB they still let him throw 1/2 the time they were in "keep them off the field and put some points on the board" mode.

I would also suggest breaking it down to plays they were trailing by 14 or fewer points, if possible.  That's really the "abandoning the run" watershed in my mind.  An NFL head coach should be very confident thinking "if we score here, we're only down one possession and the entire playbook is still open" when down 14 or fewer.  Even in Cleveland, because it's not like the talent level in the run game is substandard.  They are at least an adequate OLine and RB talent.

Thinking exactly this last night but it's probably just more difficult to mine.  I'm glad the data that got posted was posted though, it's a nice review.

 

[hoffman0001]

Thinking exactly this last night but it's probably just more difficult to mine.  I'm glad the data that got posted was posted though, it's a nice review.

How about this? Maybe the Browns just did not have the players to compete? You can do all the math you want at the end of the day the NFL is about talent and your GM let you down for years. 

 

[Bobcat10]

How about this? Maybe the Browns just did not have the players to compete? You can do all the math you want at the end of the day the NFL is about talent and your GM let you down for years. 

Welcome back.

You're definitely not totally wrong.  I do think multiple GMs failed miserably over the years and it compounds because there was never a GM/coach duo to step in and right the ship.

But at the end of the day, I don't believe this team is lack of talent to only win 1 game in 2 years in this NFL and show essentially zero improvement in year 2 with a youth enriched roster.  That's coaching, my friend, especially when your schedule doesn't have SB contenders on it every week.

 

[hoffman0001]

Welcome back.

You're definitely not totally wrong.  I do think multiple GMs failed miserably over the years and it compounds because there was never a GM/coach duo to step in and right the ship.

But at the end of the day, I don't believe this team is lack of talent to only win 1 game in 2 years in this NFL and show essentially zero improvement in year 2 with a youth enriched roster.  That's coaching, my friend, especially when your schedule doesn't have SB contenders on it every week.

Whatever makes you feel better. Outside of the O-line and a WR that is one mistake away from a lifetime ban, this is a poor roster. sorry of that hurts your feelings but that is the reality. There is not A SINGLE team in the NFL that does not see the Browns on the schedule and say "that's a win".

 

[MAC_32]

https://media.tenor.com/images/620c6fdf2c80f9a8ab1a963a51ed1c2e/tenor.png

 

[Joe Bryant]

Whatever makes you feel better. Outside of the O-line and a WR that is one mistake away from a lifetime ban, this is a poor roster. sorry of that hurts your feelings but that is the reality. There is not A SINGLE team in the NFL that does not see the Browns on the schedule and say "that's a win".

One last time before you're gone for a long time. We've asked you as nicely as possible. 

DROP THE SNARKY TOOL I'M RIGHT AND ANYONE WHO DISAGREES IS WRONG shtick. 

If you don't know what I'm talking about, please stop posting. 

I assume you do know what I'm talking about. Stop it. 

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Whatever makes you feel better. Outside of the O-line and a WR that is one mistake away from a lifetime ban, this is a poor roster. sorry of that hurts your feelings but that is the reality. There is not A SINGLE team in the NFL that does not see the Browns on the schedule and say "that's a win".

Is it your position that the Browns have no talent at all on the defensive side?

 

[daveR]

Okay.  Let's go play by play & see how valid the idea that "Hue didn't call enough running plays" is.  I will try to highlight things & make them easier to talk about.  I will post the game & then go back to edit with my own commentary.  Please be patient while I do so.  I'm sure things will change as we go, to get to the point more easily and clearly.  This is game 1 vs Pit.

1st Quarter

Cleveland Browns at 15:00

9-C.Boswell kicks 65 yards from PIT 35 to end zone, Touchback.

1-10-CLE 25(15:00) (Shotgun) 7-D.Kizer scrambles right end to CLE 26 for 1 yard (56-A.Chickillo).

2-9-CLE 26(14:24) (Shotgun) 34-I.Crowell right tackle ran ob at CLE 17 for -9 yards (91-S.Tuitt).

3-18-CLE 17(13:51) (Shotgun) PENALTY on CLE-73-J.Thomas, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at CLE 17 - No Play.

3-23-CLE 12(13:35) (Shotgun) 34-I.Crowell right guard to CLE 16 for 4 yards (22-W.Gay; 96-L.Walton).

4-19-CLE 16(12:44) 4-B.Colquitt punt is BLOCKED by 44-T.Matakevich, Center-47-C.Hughlett, RECOVERED by PIT-56-A.Chickillo at CLE -8. TOUCHDOWN.

Cleveland Browns at 12:44

9-C.Boswell kicks 65 yards from PIT 35 to end zone, Touchback.

1-10-CLE 25(12:44) 34-I.Crowell right guard to CLE 30 for 5 yards (98-V.Williams, 23-M.Mitchell).

2-5-CLE 30(12:08) (Shotgun) 34-I.Crowell right end to CLE 35 for 5 yards (79-J.Hargrave). PENALTY on CLE-85-D.Njoku, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at CLE 33.

2-12-CLE 23(11:40) (Shotgun) 34-I.Crowell left guard to CLE 24 for 1 yard (94-T.Alualu).

3-11-CLE 24(11:03) (Shotgun) 7-D.Kizer pass short right to 85-D.Njoku to CLE 37 for 13 yards (22-W.Gay).

1-10-CLE 37(10:18) (Shotgun) 7-D.Kizer sacked at CLE 30 for -7 yards (56-A.Chickillo).

2-17-CLE 30(9:32) (Shotgun) 7-D.Kizer pass short left to 27-M.Dayes to CLE 31 for 1 yard (25-A.Burns).

3-16-CLE 31(8:52) (Shotgun) 7-D.Kizer sacked at CLE 27 for -4 yards (97-C.Heyward).

4-20-CLE 27(8:09) 4-B.Colquitt punts 58 yards to PIT 15, Center-47-C.Hughlett. 17-E.Rogers ran ob at PIT 26 for 11 yards (50-B.Bello).

Pittsburgh Steelers at 07:59

1-10-PIT 26(7:59) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass short right to 17-E.Rogers pushed ob at PIT 33 for 7 yards (93-T.Coley). PENALTY on PIT-19-J.Smith-Schuster, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at PIT 28.

1-18-PIT 18(7:36) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass short right to 84-A.Brown to PIT 21 for 3 yards (21-J.Taylor).

2-15-PIT 21(6:57) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass short left to 10-M.Bryant to PIT 23 for 2 yards (30-J.McCourty). PENALTY on PIT-89-V.McDonald, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at PIT 21 - No Play.

2-25-PIT 11(6:32) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete short right to 10-M.Bryant.

3-25-PIT 11(6:29) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass short middle to 84-A.Brown to PIT 20 for 9 yards (26-D.Kindred).

4-16-PIT 20(5:53) 4-J.Berry punts 48 yards to CLE 32, Center-57-K.Canaday, out of bounds.

Cleveland Browns at 05:48

1-10-CLE 32(5:48) (Shotgun) 34-I.Crowell left tackle to CLE 34 for 2 yards (97-C.Heyward; 94-T.Alualu).

2-8-CLE 34(5:25) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 7-D.Kizer pass incomplete deep right to 29-D.Johnson.

3-8-CLE 34(5:22) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 7-D.Kizer pass short middle to 29-D.Johnson to CLE 48 for 14 yards (28-S.Davis). Sideline Warning on Pittsburgh

1-10-CLE 48(4:53) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 34-I.Crowell right guard to PIT 46 for 6 yards (50-R.Shazier).

2-4-PIT 46(4:36) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 7-D.Kizer pass short middle to 80-R.Louis to PIT 43 for 3 yards (21-J.Haden; 56-A.Chickillo).

3-1-PIT 43(4:07) 7-D.Kizer up the middle to PIT 42 for 1 yard (98-V.Williams; 50-R.Shazier).

1-10-PIT 42(3:25) (Shotgun) 7-D.Kizer pass short middle to 27-M.Dayes to PIT 34 for 8 yards (28-S.Davis).

2-2-PIT 34(2:55) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 27-M.Dayes left guard to PIT 31 for 3 yards (94-T.Alualu).

1-10-PIT 31(2:22) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 34-I.Crowell right guard to PIT 30 for 1 yard (28-S.Davis).

2-9-PIT 30(1:51) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 7-D.Kizer pass short right to 29-D.Johnson to PIT 24 for 6 yards (31-M.Hilton).

3-3-PIT 24(1:12) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 7-D.Kizer pass incomplete deep middle to 85-D.Njoku. PENALTY on PIT-28-S.Davis, Defensive Pass Interference, 21 yards, enforced at PIT 24 - No Play.

1-3-PIT 3(1:12) 34-I.Crowell right guard to PIT 1 for 2 yards (98-V.Williams).

2-1-PIT 124) 7-D.Kizer up the middle for 1 yard, TOUCHDOWN.

5-Z.Gonzalez extra point is GOOD, Center-47-C.Hughlett, Holder-4-B.Colquitt.

PIT 7    CLE 7    Plays: 12    Possession: 5:26

Pittsburgh Steelers at 00:22

5-Z.Gonzalez kicks 65 yards from CLE 35 to end zone, Touchback.

1-10-PIT 2522) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete short right to 10-M.Bryant.

2-10-PIT 2517) 26-L.Bell right guard to PIT 25 for no gain (21-J.Taylor; 53-J.Schobert).

END QUARTER 1

2nd Quarter

Pittsburgh Steelers continues ...

3-10-PIT 25(15:00) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass short right to 81-J.James to PIT 44 for 19 yards (22-J.Peppers).

1-10-PIT 44(14:19) (Shotgun) PENALTY on PIT-7-B.Roethlisberger, Delay of Game, 5 yards, enforced at PIT 44 - No Play.

1-15-PIT 39(13:58) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete short left to 26-L.Bell.

2-15-PIT 39(13:54) (Shotgun) 26-L.Bell right guard to PIT 42 for 3 yards (53-J.Schobert).

3-12-PIT 42(13:10) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete short middle to 89-V.McDonald (52-J.Burgess).

4-12-PIT 42(13:06) (Punt formation) 4-J.Berry punts 45 yards to CLE 13, Center-57-K.Canaday. 22-J.Peppers pushed ob at CLE 22 for 9 yards (90-T.Watt).

Cleveland Browns at 12:57

1-10-CLE 22(12:57) (Shotgun) 7-D.Kizer up the middle to CLE 25 for 3 yards (50-R.Shazier). PENALTY on PIT-50-R.Shazier, Unnecessary Roughness, 15 yards, enforced at CLE 25.

1-10-CLE 40(12:28) 34-I.Crowell left guard to CLE 39 for -1 yards (97-C.Heyward; 94-T.Alualu).

2-11-CLE 39(12:05) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 7-D.Kizer pass incomplete deep middle to 87-S.DeValve (21-J.Haden).

3-11-CLE 39(12:00) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 7-D.Kizer pass short right to 87-S.DeValve to CLE 48 for 9 yards (50-R.Shazier).

4-2-CLE 48(11:22) (Punt formation) 4-B.Colquitt punts 46 yards to PIT 6, Center-47-C.Hughlett, downed by CLE-80-R.Louis.

Pittsburgh Steelers at 11:13

1-10-PIT 6(11:13) 30-J.Conner right guard to PIT 7 for 1 yard (65-L.Ogunjobi).

2-9-PIT 7(10:34) 30-J.Conner left guard to PIT 6 for -1 yards (26-D.Kindred). PENALTY on CLE-98-J.Meder, Defensive Holding, 5 yards, enforced at PIT 7 - No Play.

1-10-PIT 12(10:08) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass short left to 17-E.Rogers to PIT 21 for 9 yards (51-J.Collins).

2-1-PIT 21(9:28) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete short left to 26-L.Bell.

3-1-PIT 21(9:25) (No Huddle) 26-L.Bell right guard to PIT 21 for no gain (65-L.Ogunjobi; 20-B.Boddy-Calhoun).

4-1-PIT 21(8:52) (Punt formation) 4-J.Berry punts 39 yards to CLE 40, Center-57-K.Canaday, out of bounds.

Cleveland Browns at 08:42

1-10-CLE 40(8:42) (Pass formation) 7-D.Kizer pass deep middle to 19-C.Coleman to PIT 41 for 19 yards (21-J.Haden).

1-10-PIT 41(8:03) (Run formation) 34-I.Crowell left end ran ob at PIT 40 for 1 yard (98-V.Williams).

2-9-PIT 40(7:41) (Shotgun) 7-D.Kizer pass incomplete deep right to 82-K.Williams.

Timeout #1 by CLE at 07:35.

3-9-PIT 40(7:35) (Shotgun) 7-D.Kizer pass incomplete deep right to 18-K.Britt.

4-9-PIT 40(7:30) (Punt formation) 4-B.Colquitt punts 26 yards to PIT 14, Center-47-C.Hughlett, downed by CLE-87-S.DeValve.

Pittsburgh Steelers at 07:21

1-10-PIT 14(7:21) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass short right to 84-A.Brown to PIT 24 for 10 yards (51-J.Collins). FUMBLES (51-J.Collins), ball out of bounds at PIT 24.

1-10-PIT 24(6:54) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass short middle to 81-J.James to PIT 30 for 6 yards (58-C.Kirksey).

2-4-PIT 30(6:24) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass short right to 10-M.Bryant to PIT 30 for no gain (20-B.Boddy-Calhoun; 21-J.Taylor).

3-4-PIT 30(5:36) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete short right to 81-J.James (26-D.Kindred).

4-4-PIT 30(5:30) 4-J.Berry punts 59 yards to CLE 11, Center-57-K.Canaday. 22-J.Peppers to CLE 36 for 25 yards (88-D.Heyward-Bey; 57-K.Canaday).

Cleveland Browns at 05:18

1-10-CLE 36(5:18) (Shotgun) 34-I.Crowell left guard to CLE 37 for 1 yard (90-T.Watt).

2-9-CLE 37(4:50) (Shotgun) 34-I.Crowell left guard to CLE 40 for 3 yards (90-T.Watt).

3-6-CLE 40(4:10) (Shotgun) 7-D.Kizer pass incomplete deep left to 19-C.Coleman [50-R.Shazier].

4-6-CLE 40(4:04) 4-B.Colquitt punts 51 yards to PIT 9, Center-47-C.Hughlett. 17-E.Rogers to PIT 17 for 8 yards (52-J.Burgess). PENALTY on PIT-88-D.Heyward-Bey, Offensive Holding, 8 yards, enforced at PIT 17.

Pittsburgh Steelers at 03:53

1-10-PIT 9(3:53) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass short right to 84-A.Brown to PIT 24 for 15 yards (21-J.Taylor). PENALTY on PIT-26-L.Bell, Illegal Peelback, 4 yards, enforced at PIT 9 - No Play.

1-14-PIT 5(3:27) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass short middle to 26-L.Bell to PIT 11 for 6 yards (53-J.Schobert).

2-8-PIT 11(2:44) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass deep right to 84-A.Brown to CLE 39 for 50 yards (26-D.Kindred). 60

Two-Minute Warning

1-10-CLE 39(2:00) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass short right to 84-A.Brown ran ob at CLE 28 for 11 yards.

1-10-CLE 28(1:53) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass short right to 84-A.Brown to CLE 9 for 19 yards (22-J.Peppers).

Timeout #1 by PIT at 01:35.

1-9-CLE 9(1:35) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete short middle to 81-J.James.

2-9-CLE 9(1:27) (Shotgun) 26-L.Bell right guard to CLE 4 for 5 yards (20-B.Boddy-Calhoun).

3-4-CLE 449) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass short middle to 81-J.James for 4 yards, TOUCHDOWN.

9-C.Boswell extra point is GOOD, Center-57-K.Canaday, Holder-4-J.Berry.

PIT 14    CLE 7    Plays: 7    Possession: 3:08

Cleveland Browns at 00:45

9-C.Boswell kicks 68 yards from PIT 35 to CLE -3. 22-J.Peppers to CLE 11 for 14 yards (54-L.Fort).

1-10-CLE 1141) 27-M.Dayes left guard to CLE 14 for 3 yards (90-T.Watt).

Timeout #2 by PIT at 00:35.

2-7-CLE 1435) (Shotgun) 7-D.Kizer pass short right to 19-C.Coleman pushed ob at CLE 27 for 13 yards (56-A.Chickillo).

1-10-CLE 2729) (Shotgun) 7-D.Kizer sacked at CLE 24 for -3 yards (21-J.Haden).

END QUARTER 2

3rd Quarter

Pittsburgh Steelers at 15:00

5-Z.Gonzalez kicks 65 yards from CLE 35 to end zone, Touchback.

1-10-PIT 25(15:00) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete short right to 26-L.Bell.

2-10-PIT 25(14:56) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger sacked at PIT 17 for -8 yards (94-C.Nassib).

3-18-PIT 17(14:12) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete deep left to 10-M.Bryant.

4-18-PIT 17(14:03) 4-J.Berry punts 42 yards to CLE 41, Center-57-K.Canaday. 22-J.Peppers MUFFS catch, and recovers at CLE 41. 22-J.Peppers to CLE 41 for no gain (54-L.Fort).

Cleveland Browns at 13:56

1-10-CLE 41(13:56) (Shotgun) 7-D.Kizer pass deep right to 19-C.Coleman to PIT 36 for 23 yards (21-J.Haden).

1-10-PIT 36(13:11) (No Huddle) 34-I.Crowell right guard to PIT 32 for 4 yards (56-A.Chickillo; 21-J.Haden).

2-6-PIT 32(12:31) (Shotgun) 7-D.Kizer pass short left to 87-S.DeValve to PIT 11 for 21 yards (22-W.Gay). CLE-29-D.Johnson was injured during the play. His return is Probable.

1-10-PIT 11(11:45) (Shotgun) 34-I.Crowell right guard to PIT 9 for 2 yards (79-J.Hargrave).

2-8-PIT 9(11:01) (Shotgun) 7-D.Kizer sacked at PIT 17 for -8 yards (90-T.Watt).

3-16-PIT 17(10:17) (Shotgun) 7-D.Kizer scrambles right end to PIT 6 for 11 yards (50-R.Shazier; 94-T.Alualu).

4-5-PIT 6(9:31) (Field Goal formation) 5-Z.Gonzalez 24 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-47-C.Hughlett, Holder-4-B.Colquitt.

PIT 14    CLE 10    Plays: 7    Possession: 4:29

Pittsburgh Steelers at 09:27

5-Z.Gonzalez kicks 65 yards from CLE 35 to end zone, Touchback.

1-10-PIT 25(9:27) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass short right to 10-M.Bryant pushed ob at PIT 39 for 14 yards (21-J.Taylor).

1-10-PIT 39(8:47) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 26-L.Bell right tackle to PIT 41 for 2 yards (90-E.Ogbah).

2-8-PIT 41(8:07) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete deep right to 84-A.Brown. PENALTY on CLE-21-J.Taylor, Defensive Pass Interference, 41 yards, enforced at PIT 41 - No Play.

1-10-CLE 18(8:02) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass short right to 26-L.Bell to CLE 8 for 10 yards (22-J.Peppers).

1-8-CLE 8(7:16) (Shotgun) 26-L.Bell right guard to CLE 7 for 1 yard (55-D.Shelton).

2-7-CLE 7(6:32) (Shotgun) 26-L.Bell right guard to CLE 2 for 5 yards (53-J.Schobert; 51-J.Collins).

Timeout #1 by PIT at 05:43.

3-2-CLE 2(5:43) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass short middle to 81-J.James for 2 yards, TOUCHDOWN.

9-C.Boswell extra point is GOOD, Center-57-K.Canaday, Holder-4-J.Berry.

PIT 21    CLE 10    Plays: 6    Possession: 3:50

Cleveland Browns at 05:37

9-C.Boswell kicks 65 yards from PIT 35 to end zone, Touchback.

1-10-CLE 25(5:37) (Shotgun) 7-D.Kizer pass short left to 19-C.Coleman to CLE 20 for -5 yards (90-T.Watt; 50-R.Shazier).

2-15-CLE 20(5:03) 7-D.Kizer sacked at CLE 17 for -3 yards (90-T.Watt).

3-18-CLE 17(4:16) (Shotgun) 7-D.Kizer pass incomplete short left to 80-R.Louis (22-W.Gay). PENALTY on PIT-22-W.Gay, Unnecessary Roughness, 15 yards, enforced at CLE 17 - No Play.

1-10-CLE 32(4:08) 7-D.Kizer pass incomplete deep left to 19-C.Coleman. PENALTY on PIT-25-A.Burns, Defensive Holding, 5 yards, enforced at CLE 32 - No Play.

1-10-CLE 37(4:04) (Shotgun) 7-D.Kizer pass short right to 18-K.Britt to 50 for 13 yards (21-J.Haden).

1-10-(3:25) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 34-I.Crowell right guard to PIT 44 for 6 yards (98-V.Williams).

2-4-PIT 44(2:55) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 7-D.Kizer pass incomplete short left to 29-D.Johnson (22-W.Gay).

3-4-PIT 44(2:53) 34-I.Crowell right end to PIT 42 for 2 yards (50-R.Shazier). Backwards Pass

Timeout #1 by CLE at 02:03.

4-2-PIT 42(2:03) (Shotgun) 7-D.Kizer pass short left to 87-S.DeValve to PIT 36 for 6 yards (22-W.Gay).

1-10-PIT 36(1:40) (No Huddle) 7-D.Kizer sacked at PIT 44 for -8 yards (56-A.Chickillo). PENALTY on PIT-90-T.Watt, Unnecessary Roughness, 15 yards, enforced at PIT 44.

1-10-PIT 29(1:24) 7-D.Kizer pass short left intended for 82-K.Williams INTERCEPTED by 90-T.Watt at PIT 17. 90-T.Watt pushed ob at PIT 34 for 17 yards (75-J.Bitonio).

Pittsburgh Steelers at 01:13

1-10-PIT 34(1:13) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass short left to 81-J.James to PIT 36 for 2 yards (30-J.McCourty).

2-8-PIT 3633) (Shotgun) 30-J.Conner left guard to PIT 41 for 5 yards (65-L.Ogunjobi).

END QUARTER 3

4th Quarter

Pittsburgh Steelers continues ...

3-3-PIT 41(15:00) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass short left to 84-A.Brown pushed ob at 50 for 9 yards (53-J.Schobert).

1-10-(14:30) (Shotgun) 30-J.Conner left guard to CLE 46 for 4 yards (53-J.Schobert; 30-J.McCourty).

2-6-CLE 46(13:49) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass short left to 84-A.Brown to CLE 30 for 16 yards (22-J.Peppers).

1-10-CLE 30(13:06) (Shotgun) 30-J.Conner right guard to CLE 29 for 1 yard (58-C.Kirksey; 53-J.Schobert).

2-9-CLE 29(12:23) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete short middle to 17-E.Rogers (90-E.Ogbah).

3-9-CLE 29(12:18) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass deep middle intended for 10-M.Bryant INTERCEPTED by 26-D.Kindred (20-B.Boddy-Calhoun) at CLE 1. 26-D.Kindred to CLE 31 for 30 yards (19-J.Smith-Schuster).

Cleveland Browns at 12:05

1-10-CLE 31(12:05) (Shotgun) 7-D.Kizer sacked at CLE 22 for -9 yards (79-J.Hargrave).

2-19-CLE 22(11:30) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 7-D.Kizer pass incomplete deep middle to 18-K.Britt.

3-19-CLE 22(11:27) (Shotgun) 7-D.Kizer pass short right to 87-S.DeValve to CLE 28 for 6 yards (31-M.Hilton).

4-13-CLE 28(10:47) 4-B.Colquitt punts 61 yards to PIT 11, Center-47-C.Hughlett. 17-E.Rogers to PIT 24 for 13 yards (27-M.Dayes).

Pittsburgh Steelers at 10:35

1-10-PIT 24(10:35) 26-L.Bell right guard to PIT 25 for 1 yard (58-C.Kirksey; 65-L.Ogunjobi).

2-9-PIT 25(9:58) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass short right to 84-A.Brown to PIT 30 for 5 yards (21-J.Taylor).

3-4-PIT 30(9:20) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass short right to 84-A.Brown to PIT 42 for 12 yards (53-J.Schobert).

1-10-PIT 42(8:37) 26-L.Bell right tackle to CLE 46 for 12 yards (22-J.Peppers). PENALTY on PIT-19-J.Smith-Schuster, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at PIT 42 - No Play.

1-20-PIT 32(8:09) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass short right to 26-L.Bell to PIT 31 for -1 yards (58-C.Kirksey; 21-J.Taylor).

2-21-PIT 31(7:26) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete short left to 17-E.Rogers (22-J.Peppers).

3-21-PIT 31(7:20) (Shotgun) 26-L.Bell left guard to PIT 31 for no gain (51-J.Collins; 53-J.Schobert).

4-21-PIT 31(6:46) 4-J.Berry punts 42 yards to CLE 27, Center-57-K.Canaday, fair catch by 22-J.Peppers.

Cleveland Browns at 06:41  AT this point, two scores are needed.  IMO, most plays should be passes.

1-10-CLE 27(6:41) (Shotgun) 7-D.Kizer pass incomplete deep right to 29-D.Johnson.

2-10-CLE 27(6:34) (Shotgun) 7-D.Kizer pass short left to 34-I.Crowell ran ob at CLE 37 for 10 yards (25-A.Burns).

1-10-CLE 37(6:03) 7-D.Kizer pass deep right to 80-R.Louis to PIT 34 for 29 yards (23-M.Mitchell).

1-10-PIT 34(5:31) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 7-D.Kizer pass short middle to 34-I.Crowell to PIT 11 for 23 yards (27-J.Wilcox).

1-10-PIT 11(4:54) (Shotgun) 27-M.Dayes left end to PIT 10 for 1 yard (22-W.Gay).

2-9-PIT 10(4:20) (Shotgun) 7-D.Kizer pass short left to 85-D.Njoku to PIT 3 for 7 yards (25-A.Burns; 27-J.Wilcox).

3-2-PIT 3(3:46) (Shotgun) 7-D.Kizer pass incomplete short middle to 80-R.Louis.

4-2-PIT 3(3:40) (Shotgun) 7-D.Kizer pass short left to 19-C.Coleman for 3 yards, TOUCHDOWN. PIT-27-J.Wilcox was injured during the play. PENALTY on PIT-27-J.Wilcox, Unnecessary Roughness, 15 yards, enforced between downs.

TWO-POINT CONVERSION ATTEMPT. 34-I.Crowell rushes left guard. ATTEMPT SUCCEEDS.

PIT 21    CLE 18    Plays: 8    Possession: 3:05

Pittsburgh Steelers at 03:36

5-Z.Gonzalez kicks 34 yards from 50 to PIT 16. 19-J.Smith-Schuster to PIT 20 for 4 yards (54-D.Alexander).

1-10-PIT 20(3:33) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass short right to 81-J.James to PIT 28 for 8 yards (58-C.Kirksey).

2-2-PIT 28(2:53) 26-L.Bell right tackle to PIT 35 for 7 yards (22-J.Peppers). PENALTY on PIT-53-M.Pouncey, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at PIT 28 - No Play.

2-12-PIT 18(2:47) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass deep left to 84-A.Brown to CLE 44 for 38 yards (30-J.McCourty). Cleveland challenged the pass completion ruling, and the play was Upheld. The ruling on the field stands. (Timeout #2.)

Timeout #3 by CLE at 02:28.

1-10-CLE 44(2:28) 26-L.Bell right tackle to CLE 29 for 15 yards (26-D.Kindred; 94-C.Nassib).

Two-Minute Warning

1-10-CLE 29(2:00) 7-B.Roethlisberger kneels to CLE 33 for -4 yards.

2-14-CLE 33(1:16) 7-B.Roethlisberger kneels to CLE 36 for -3 yards.

3-17-CLE 3636) 7-B.Roethlisberger kneels to CLE 37 for -1 yards.

END GAME

PIT 21    CLE 18    Plays: 6    Possession: 3:36

 

[Hankmoody]

9 rushes in the first quarter (11 with the QB).

Seven 1st down plays in the 1st quarter:
4 rushes
3 pass plays

4 rushes in the 2nd

4 rushes in the 3rd

0 rushes in the 4th

Eight first down plays in the 2-4th quarters:
1 rush
7 pass plays

 

[daveR]

In the second quarter, they ran on 5 of 6 first downs.

 

[daveR]

9 rushes in the first quarter (11 with the QB).

Seven 1st down plays in the 1st quarter:
4 rushes
3 pass plays

4 rushes in the 2nd

4 rushes in the 3rd

0 rushes in the 4th

Eight first down plays in the 2-4th quarters:
1 rush
7 pass plays

Are we looking at the same thing?

 

[hoffman0001]

Is it your position that the Browns have no talent at all on the defensive side?

They have a few piece on defense sure, but what has it gotten them? Not sure why everyone gets so mad when I'm simply speaking the truth. It's like blaming the weatherman for the storm he is reporting on. As someone that has put his life on the line to protect freedom its so sad to see it attacked. 

 

[Hankmoody]

Are we looking at the same thing?

Maybe not, now it's making my eyes hurt.

 

[Bobcat10]

Is it your position that the Browns have no talent at all on the defensive side?

I don't even know why I replied to him.  He has some bone to pick and it's likely an alias because he started posting in here with a single digit post number and hasn't stopped since.  

 

[Bobcat10]

They have a few piece on defense sure, but what has it gotten them? Not sure why everyone gets so mad when I'm simply speaking the truth. It's like blaming the weatherman for the storm he is reporting on. 

Backtracking already.  Either there is no talent, or there is talent.  Make up your mind.

Also, who is your NFL team?  You've still never told us. 

EDIT: never mind, Green Bay.  Cool, I bet you're from Wisconsin too.

 

[daveR]

Maybe not, now it's making my eyes hurt.

LOL!  When the down-and-distance is green, IMO it's a reasonable time to run the ball.  The play itself is green for a run or red for a pass.

 

[beer 30]

They have a few piece on defense sure, but what has it gotten them? Not sure why everyone gets so mad when I'm simply speaking the truth. It's like blaming the weatherman for the storm he is reporting on. As someone that has put his life on the line to protect freedom its so sad to see it attacked. 

Nobody in here is getting mad over the truth. We are having a spirited debate about a 1-31 team on whether they abandoned the run too early in the majority of their losses last year. Who does that?

What we get mad about is you being a #### about it. If you want to bang on the Browns feel free, if you'd read some of these posts you'd see we are all doing that. We're just doing without being an ######. It's not hard to do.

Thanks for your service, appreciate it more than you know!

 

[hoffman0001]

Backtracking already.  Either there is no talent, or there is talent.  Make up your mind.

Also, who is your NFL team?  You've still never told us. 

EDIT: never mind, Green Bay.  Cool, I bet you're from Wisconsin too.

They have a few pieces of both sides of the ball, but until you have a QB that can win games, a consistent run game, and a defense that can hold a lead (how many times did this team lose a game on defense at the end of the game?) your still the same team that went 0-16. You can't even hope for changes in the coaching cause you have the same hand again this year. 

In the same light (just to show that I'm fair) the Packers will never be elite again unless they find ways to win outside the QB position. They can't go into each season with everything riding on AROB making every throw every game. 

I'm just being honest (sorry) when I say I cannot look at the roster for every other team and feel they are better of then the Browns. They had 16 chances to win A GAME, and they fell short. 

 

[Peak]

In the second quarter, they ran on 5 of 6 first downs.

Hard to read the straight lines, so I broke it down in Excel in order to slice my way through it.  Here's what I pulled from only the CLE plays.  Note - a QB Sack did not qualify as neither a run nor a pass play.  I did track it, but did not qualify it.  I did qualify QB scrambles as a run play, event though that may have been caused by a broken down play or really good coverage by the defense.

1Q Plays
- 7 First Down Plays (Run & Pass)
--> 6 Running Plays on 1st D
---> 5 Running Plays for RB only totaling 16 yds

2Q Plays
- 6 First Down Plays (Run & Pass)
--> 5 Running Plays on 1st D
---> 4 Running Plays for RB only totaling 4 yds

3Q
- 8 First Down Plays (Run & Pass)
--> 3 Running Plays on 1st D
---> 3 Running Plays for RB only totaling 12 yds

4Q
- 4 First Down Plays (Run & Pass)
--> 1 Running Plays on 1st D
---> 1 Running Plays for RB only totaling 1 yds


I can break it down further, but no time at the moment.  One interesting take is the split by Halves:  1st Half RB Running Plays = 15 (for 27yds),  2nd Half RB Running Plays = 6 (for 20yds).  That's for all downs in those halves. Looking at that, the CLE RBs had a better Y/A in the 2nd Half (3.3) vs the 1st Half (1.8) in that game.  One could argue that Pitt was giving up the yardage on the ground to prevent the big play in order to sustain their lead in this game.  Most likely true, but if you are getting just over 3 yds/attempt rushing - why not do a little more of it?  Especially when the young QB is getting a lot of pressure (3 sacks in 1st half vs 4 sacks in 2nd half)?

 

[hoffman0001]

Nobody in here is getting mad over the truth. We are having a spirited debate about a 1-31 team on whether they abandoned the run too early in the majority of their losses last year. Who does that?

What we get mad about is you being a #### about it. If you want to bang on the Browns feel free, if you'd read some of these posts you'd see we are all doing that. We're just doing without being an ######. It's not hard to do.

Thanks for your service, appreciate it more than you know!

I'm sorry your feeling got hurt. Do you get mad at ESPN and the NFL Network too? Show me where something I said was not true? 

 

[daveR]

Nobody in here is getting mad over the truth. We are having a spirited debate about a 1-31 team on whether they abandoned the run too early in the majority of their losses last year. Who does that?

What we get mad about is you being a #### about it. If you want to bang on the Browns feel free, if you'd read some of these posts you'd see we are all doing that. We're just doing without being an ######. It's not hard to do.

Thanks for your service, appreciate it more than you know!

Dude, DFT -- don't feed the trolls.

 

[Peak]

I'm sorry your feeling got hurt. Do you get mad at ESPN and the NFL Network too? Show me where something I said was not true? 

They have a few pieces of both sides of the ball, but until you have a QB that can win games, a consistent run game, and a defense that can hold a lead (how many times did this team lose a game on defense at the end of the game?) your still the same team that went 0-16. You can't even hope for changes in the coaching cause you have the same hand again this year. 

1. QB - spot on.  That is a huge glaring weakness on this team.  That should be, and most likely is, priority A1.

2. Running Game.  I believe you're a little off on that one.  If you've been reading through the thread you'll notice the trend here where the running game was doing well, but the coach pulled it and forced the ball into the hands of a young, inexperienced QB (see point 1).  The run was solid, the coaching sub-par.

3. Defense not holding a lead.  Easy to say this with nothing to back it up.  Instead let's look at how long the Defense was on the field vs the offense.  Well over 60% of the time.  Let's look at how often the offense gave away the ball putting the defense on short rest and in short yardage.  More often than not.  Lets look at how many times the opponent was in the Red Zone but had to settle for a FG vs a TD.  Quite a bit.

I'm sure all of us are up for a healthy discussion, but bring something to the table other than accusations and assumptions.  It's obvious you don't follow the team nor care to - and that's fine.  But don't try to act like you know more about this team than those of us who have suffered through it week in and week out.

 

[hoffman0001]

1. QB - spot on.  That is a huge glaring weakness on this team.  That should be, and most likely is, priority A1.

2. Running Game.  I believe you're a little off on that one.  If you've been reading through the thread you'll notice the trend here where the running game was doing well, but the coach pulled it and forced the ball into the hands of a young, inexperienced QB (see point 1).  The run was solid, the coaching sub-par.

3. Defense not holding a lead.  Easy to say this with nothing to back it up.  Instead let's look at how long the Defense was on the field vs the offense.  Well over 60% of the time.  Let's look at how often the offense gave away the ball putting the defense on short rest and in short yardage.  More often than not.  Lets look at how many times the opponent was in the Red Zone but had to settle for a FG vs a TD.  Quite a bit.

I'm sure all of us are up for a healthy discussion, but bring something to the table other than acquisitions and assumptions.  It's obvious you don't follow the team nor care to - and that's fine.  But don't try to act like you know more about this team than those of us who have suffered through it week in and week out.

I see a lot of excuses trying to cover up the facts. Here are some facts: 

A. Cleveland was 18th in rushing. Not a lot of help for a young QB there. I don't care who's fault it is, it's still a poor showing. 

B. Cleveland 21st in Sacks 

C. Cleveland is 31st in INT's

D. Cleveland is 23rd in fumble recoveries. 

You can Spin it, and "yeah but" all you want. Stats are stats. And those are from ESPN, so if you don't like it blame them. 

 

[Peak]

Note to self:  

Dude, DFT -- don't feed the trolls.

 

 

[hoffman0001]

Note to self:  

 

Oh I get it now....TROLLS=people who tell the truth and use stats. Gotcha! 

 

[Peak]

Oh I get it now....TROLLS=people who tell the truth and use stats. Gotcha! 

Sigh....ok...Let me see if I can help you understand a little more.  It's easy to go to ESPN (or any NFL Ranking/Stat site) and pull the quick ranking numbers.  But take it a step further and ask yourself "Why?"

Here's one example...

A. Cleveland was 18th in rushing. Not a lot of help for a young QB there. I don't care who's fault it is, it's still a poor showing.

CLE ranked 18th in Rushing Yards Gained (1714 total).  But did you know that they were tied for 3rd among the league in Yards per Rushing Attempt (4.5) - only 2 tenths of a yard behind the first ranked team (Saints)?  How could that be if they had an 18th ranked rushing attack?  That must be a fluke.  Wait!  You mean CLE ranked 12th in First Down Rushes (97 1stD)?!? But their ranked 18th in Rushing.  That can't be right.  Could it be it's because they only had 384 Rushing attempts over the season?!?  Why that's enough to rank them 28th in the league! 

But if they were top in the league in Rushing Yards per Attempt, and were very successful at achieving First Down Rushes - why didn't they run more?  

Let's say a team averages 70 offensive plays in your average game (based on @daveR research above).  Let's say the average is 40% Rushing plays per game.  The average team would rush about 28 times a game.  Multiply that by 16 games and you have 448 rushing attempts in a season.  This number of attempts is equal to the 12th ranked team in Attempts for the league.  CLE had 60 less rushing attempts in 2017 compared to the 12th ranked team.  That is at least15% less than any of the top 12 teams in the league - yet their Y/A and 1D averages puts them in the top 12 teams in the league.  

What would've happened if CLE rushed for 448 attempts?  If they maintained the average of 4.5 per attempt, another 60 attempts would get them an additional 270 yds - bringing their total to 1984 - or ranked 6th on your list.  Now this is completely unrealistic, but you should see where I'm going - assuming you're not a troll.

CLE was ranked 18th in Rushing because the Coach stopped running the ball.  Whatever his reasoning was, he stopped doing it.

CLE showed it could run the ball well and was able to move it down the field efficiently enough to get 1st Downs.  The coach just decided to stop doing it.

Which has us fans pondering "Why?"

But a troll would say - "CLE was 18th in rushing.  They weren't good."

 

[Biabreakable]

This is a pretty good look at it.  Leading or tied they only ran the ball 50% of the time.  With a terrible rookie QB they still let him throw 1/2 the time they were in "keep them off the field and put some points on the board" mode.

I would also suggest breaking it down to plays they were trailing by 14 or fewer points, if possible.  That's really the "abandoning the run" watershed in my mind.  An NFL head coach should be very confident thinking "if we score here, we're only down one possession and the entire playbook is still open" when down 14 or fewer.  Even in Cleveland, because it's not like the talent level in the run game is substandard.  They are at least an adequate OLine and RB talent.

According to FBO Cleveland was 14th in adjusted line yards in 2017. Which is a significant improvement from 28th in adjusted line yards in 2016.

This is just for run blocking, but suggests the offensive line gave RB better opportunity in 2017 than the year before. It also shows that Zeitler and other changes made improved the quality of the offensive line play.

That the RB play was much better in 2016 because the offensive line didn't do as much, but then Crowell did't really improve along with the offensive line upgrades, as reflected by Crowells success rate.

Having a rookie QB and less threat from the passing game certainly a part of that as well as other things, but I would think Crowells numbers would improve from better run blocking, yet they didn't.

That Crowell is running almost 70% of his plays in a basically neutral situation I think supports that conclusion, although I didn't look at this for 2016. Maybe it was less predictable?

Anyhow this has me thinking that a RB upgrade might net positive results as long as the offensive line continues to play well.

 

[Snorkelson]

Sigh....ok...Let me see if I can help you understand a little more.  It's easy to go to ESPN (or any NFL Ranking/Stat site) and pull the quick ranking numbers.  But take it a step further and ask yourself "Why?"

Here's one example...

CLE ranked 18th in Rushing Yards Gained (1714 total).  But did you know that they were tied for 3rd among the league in Yards per Rushing Attempt (4.5) - only 2 tenths of a yard behind the first ranked team (Saints)?  How could that be if they had an 18th ranked rushing attack?  That must be a fluke.  Wait!  You mean CLE ranked 12th in First Down Rushes (97 1stD)?!? But their ranked 18th in Rushing.  That can't be right.  Could it be it's because they only had 384 Rushing attempts over the season?!?  Why that's enough to rank them 28th in the league! 

But if they were top in the league in Rushing Yards per Attempt, and were very successful at achieving First Down Rushes - why didn't they run more?  

Let's say a team averages 70 offensive plays in your average game (based on @daveR research above).  Let's say the average is 40% Rushing plays per game.  The average team would rush about 28 times a game.  Multiply that by 16 games and you have 448 rushing attempts in a season.  This number of attempts is equal to the 12th ranked team in Attempts for the league.  CLE had 60 less rushing attempts in 2017 compared to the 12th ranked team.  That is at least15% less than any of the top 12 teams in the league - yet their Y/A and 1D averages puts them in the top 12 teams in the league.  

What would've happened if CLE rushed for 448 attempts?  If they maintained the average of 4.5 per attempt, another 60 attempts would get them an additional 270 yds - bringing their total to 1984 - or ranked 6th on your list.  Now this is completely unrealistic, but you should see where I'm going - assuming you're not a troll.

CLE was ranked 18th in Rushing because the Coach stopped running the ball.  Whatever his reasoning was, he stopped doing it.

CLE showed it could run the ball well and was able to move it down the field efficiently enough to get 1st Downs.  The coach just decided to stop doing it.

Which has us fans pondering "Why?"

But a troll would say - "CLE was 18th in rushing.  They weren't good."

 

[Arodin]

Oh I get it now....TROLLS=people who tell the truth and use stats. Gotcha! 

Close.  I would have put it as "trolls" are people who mostly post about other posters, rather than the issues at hand.

This includes, of course, passive-aggressive provocations and carefully constructed martyr complexes.

Good trolls will post just enough real content to point to it repeatedly to prove non-trollishness.  When the number of such posts exceeds the count of content, we're back at the first sentence of this post...

 

[Soulfly3]

See the Josh Gordon thread for tips, bruh. 

 

[beer 30]

Anyhow this has me thinking that a RB upgrade might net positive results as long as the offensive line continues to play well.

I would agree as long as Hue: 1. isn't calling the plays and 2. come out at the beginning of the season and proclaim for all the world that CLE will run the ball.

 

[daveR]

Hard to read the straight lines, so I broke it down in Excel in order to slice my way through it.  Here's what I pulled from only the CLE plays.  Note - a QB Sack did not qualify as neither a run nor a pass play.  I did track it, but did not qualify it.  I did qualify QB scrambles as a run play, event though that may have been caused by a broken down play or really good coverage by the defense.

1Q Plays
- 7 First Down Plays (Run & Pass)
--> 6 Running Plays on 1st D
---> 5 Running Plays for RB only totaling 16 yds

2Q Plays
- 6 First Down Plays (Run & Pass)
--> 5 Running Plays on 1st D
---> 4 Running Plays for RB only totaling 4 yds

3Q
- 8 First Down Plays (Run & Pass)
--> 3 Running Plays on 1st D
---> 3 Running Plays for RB only totaling 12 yds

4Q
- 4 First Down Plays (Run & Pass)
--> 1 Running Plays on 1st D
---> 1 Running Plays for RB only totaling 1 yds


I can break it down further, but no time at the moment.  One interesting take is the split by Halves:  1st Half RB Running Plays = 15 (for 27yds),  2nd Half RB Running Plays = 6 (for 20yds).  That's for all downs in those halves. Looking at that, the CLE RBs had a better Y/A in the 2nd Half (3.3) vs the 1st Half (1.8) in that game.  One could argue that Pitt was giving up the yardage on the ground to prevent the big play in order to sustain their lead in this game.  Most likely true, but if you are getting just over 3 yds/attempt rushing - why not do a little more of it?  Especially when the young QB is getting a lot of pressure (3 sacks in 1st half vs 4 sacks in 2nd half)?

Well, because of game situations.  Not a lot of sense running the ball & eating up the clock when you're behind in the second half.  Also, like you showed, it wasn't very effective in this game.  So, are you still convinced he abandoned the running game too soon in this game?  At what point would you say that occurred? 

 

[MAC_32]

Well, because of game situations.  Not a lot of sense running the ball & eating up the clock when you're behind in the second half.  Also, like you showed, it wasn't very effective in this game.  So, are you still convinced he abandoned the running game too soon in this game?  At what point would you say that occurred? 

I didn't think play calling was an issue game 1. The team clearly wasn't ready to play though. Game was lost in the first few minutes. 

 

[amnesiac]

nothing like kicking a fan base while it’s down. 

what is this guy’s problem?

 

[Biabreakable]

I would agree as long as Hue: 1. isn't calling the plays and 2. come out at the beginning of the season and proclaim for all the world that CLE will run the ball.

Well a talent such as Barkley may be able to overcome such obstacles?

I agree with you though, it doesn't change the problem of the coach, as far that goes its back to square one. I agree Hue Jacksons split of carries between two RB and perhaps not sticking with the running game enough (not sure on that its debatable, I would like to see the Browns play with a lead more often before really being sure about that. but its not possible),

With the Bengals he did have offenses that would run the ball over 50% of the time. The defense does need to play well enough to allow that though.

I have no doubt that this will be the mantra though regardless of the real intent or moves made in the meantime.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Sigh....ok...Let me see if I can help you understand a little more.  It's easy to go to ESPN (or any NFL Ranking/Stat site) and pull the quick ranking numbers.  But take it a step further and ask yourself "Why?"

Here's one example...

CLE ranked 18th in Rushing Yards Gained (1714 total).  But did you know that they were tied for 3rd among the league in Yards per Rushing Attempt (4.5) - only 2 tenths of a yard behind the first ranked team (Saints)?  How could that be if they had an 18th ranked rushing attack?  That must be a fluke.  Wait!  You mean CLE ranked 12th in First Down Rushes (97 1stD)?!? But their ranked 18th in Rushing.  That can't be right.  Could it be it's because they only had 384 Rushing attempts over the season?!?  Why that's enough to rank them 28th in the league! 

But if they were top in the league in Rushing Yards per Attempt, and were very successful at achieving First Down Rushes - why didn't they run more?  

Let's say a team averages 70 offensive plays in your average game (based on @daveR research above).  Let's say the average is 40% Rushing plays per game.  The average team would rush about 28 times a game.  Multiply that by 16 games and you have 448 rushing attempts in a season.  This number of attempts is equal to the 12th ranked team in Attempts for the league.  CLE had 60 less rushing attempts in 2017 compared to the 12th ranked team.  That is at least15% less than any of the top 12 teams in the league - yet their Y/A and 1D averages puts them in the top 12 teams in the league.  

What would've happened if CLE rushed for 448 attempts?  If they maintained the average of 4.5 per attempt, another 60 attempts would get them an additional 270 yds - bringing their total to 1984 - or ranked 6th on your list.  Now this is completely unrealistic, but you should see where I'm going - assuming you're not a troll.

CLE was ranked 18th in Rushing because the Coach stopped running the ball.  Whatever his reasoning was, he stopped doing it.

CLE showed it could run the ball well and was able to move it down the field efficiently enough to get 1st Downs.  The coach just decided to stop doing it.

Which has us fans pondering "Why?"

But a troll would say - "CLE was 18th in rushing.  They weren't good."

teams stop running because they are behind. And when you are behind and you run....well the defense kinda lets you.

Stats can be misleading.

 

[ZWK]

Kizer's scrambling was responsible for a lot of their rushing success. Cleveland's QBs accounted for about 35% of their rushing first downs. Cleveland's RBs averaged 4.14 yards per carry.

 

[Peak]

Well, because of game situations.  Not a lot of sense running the ball & eating up the clock when you're behind in the second half.  Also, like you showed, it wasn't very effective in this game.  So, are you still convinced he abandoned the running game too soon in this game?  At what point would you say that occurred? 

Agreed, which is why I suggested to start with games that CLE either had a lead or was within reach in the second half.  It's a start, but it's not the while picture.

 

[Peak]

teams stop running because they are behind. And when you are behind and you run....well the defense kinda lets you.

Stats can be misleading.

Agreed, but so can looking at stats from one angle. What about when the either LED game or we're within a TD? How does that play into the narrative?

 

[Peak]

In other news, Browns are the first to schedule a private visit with Mayfield.

In regards to possibly landing spots for Mayfield in the Draft, the author posits..

The Browns have the draft capital to make this happen on their terms, either by trading back deeper in the Top 10, or by pulling the trigger with one of their existing picks. When Hue Jackson has had success with young quarterbacks, they’ve been guys with tons of experience coming out of college and the advanced football aptitude that comes with that. Think Joe Flacco in Baltimore, Andy Dalton and AJ McCarron in Cincinnati; all three attempted more than 900 passes in college and the latter two were four-year starters. Jackson values scheme above all, and he believes his scheme can beat any defense in football with the right brain on the field. Mayfield might just be that brain. He played for three different head coaches over his college career yet improved his production year over year without fail. Jackson’s biggest criticism of former Notre Dame quarterback DeShone Kizer last season was a telling one; Jackson said it was fair to wonder if Kizer would “ever get it.” Likewise, Jackson’s new boss, John Dorsey, puts a high value on football IQ when drafting quarterbacks—he said one of the major factors in the decision to draft Patrick Mahomes out of Texas Tech was his ability to retain playbook information during a six-hour visit with the Chiefs staff. Former coaches say Mayfield has something like a photographic memory, and when he showed up at OU’s campus to battle with Trevor Knight for a starting job, players remarked after the first practices that Mayfield seemed to have a better grasp of the playbook than Knight, the incumbent starter. My only hesitation: Having known Jackson for five years and met Mayfield for about five minutes, this armchair psychiatrist wonders if the two big, brash personalities could coexist with all that brutal honesty flying back and forth. My hunch is they’d either love each other, or kill each other.

High Football IQ tied with a near photographic memory and the intangibles of an elite QB?  If his name wasn't Baker Mayfield, people would be jumping all over to draft this guy #1.

 

[hoffman0001]

Agreed, but so can looking at stats from one angle. What about when the either LED game or we're within a TD? How does that play into the narrative?

Sigh....ok...Let me see if I can help you understand a little more.  It's easy to go to ESPN (or any NFL Ranking/Stat site) and pull the quick ranking numbers.  But take it a step further and ask yourself "Why?"

Here's one example...

CLE ranked 18th in Rushing Yards Gained (1714 total).  But did you know that they were tied for 3rd among the league in Yards per Rushing Attempt (4.5) - only 2 tenths of a yard behind the first ranked team (Saints)?  How could that be if they had an 18th ranked rushing attack?  That must be a fluke.  Wait!  You mean CLE ranked 12th in First Down Rushes (97 1stD)?!? But their ranked 18th in Rushing.  That can't be right.  Could it be it's because they only had 384 Rushing attempts over the season?!?  Why that's enough to rank them 28th in the league! 

But if they were top in the league in Rushing Yards per Attempt, and were very successful at achieving First Down Rushes - why didn't they run more?  

Let's say a team averages 70 offensive plays in your average game (based on @daveR research above).  Let's say the average is 40% Rushing plays per game.  The average team would rush about 28 times a game.  Multiply that by 16 games and you have 448 rushing attempts in a season.  This number of attempts is equal to the 12th ranked team in Attempts for the league.  CLE had 60 less rushing attempts in 2017 compared to the 12th ranked team.  That is at least15% less than any of the top 12 teams in the league - yet their Y/A and 1D averages puts them in the top 12 teams in the league.  

What would've happened if CLE rushed for 448 attempts?  If they maintained the average of 4.5 per attempt, another 60 attempts would get them an additional 270 yds - bringing their total to 1984 - or ranked 6th on your list.  Now this is completely unrealistic, but you should see where I'm going - assuming you're not a troll.

CLE was ranked 18th in Rushing because the Coach stopped running the ball.  Whatever his reasoning was, he stopped doing it.

CLE showed it could run the ball well and was able to move it down the field efficiently enough to get 1st Downs.  The coach just decided to stop doing it.

Which has us fans pondering "Why?"

But a troll would say - "CLE was 18th in rushing.  They weren't good."

What's next are you going to explain away why they finished 0-16, and did not win a single game? "But why" did they lose every game?  maybe "but why" they got outscored in every game in 2017, and every game but 1 in 2016-2017? 

Or am I just being a "Troll" by looking at the facts. 

 

[Dr. Octopus]

What's next are you going to explain away why they finished 0-16, and did not win a single game? "But why" did they lose every game?  maybe "but why" they got outscored in every game in 2017, and every game but 1 in 2016-2017? 

Or am I just being a "Troll" by looking at the facts. 

No you're being a troll by constantly repeating "facts" that everyone knows. No one has once disputed that the Browns are 1-31 over the last two seasons. If everyone concedes that point - will you move on?

I think you're capable of contributing more and people would be more willing to engage you if you approached it differently.

Telling Browns fans they should stop supporting their team or telling them "they suck" isn't helpful.

 

[daveR]

No you're being a troll by constantly repeating "facts" that everyone knows. No one has once disputed that the Browns are 1-31 over the last two seasons. If everyone concedes that point - will you move on?

I think you're capable of contributing more and people would be more willing to engage you if you approached it differently.

Telling Browns fans they should stop supporting their team or telling them "they suck" isn't helpful.

Complaining without suggesting a viable avenue of improving is just whining.  Nobody likes a whiner.

 

[Soulfly3]

High Football IQ tied with a near photographic memory and the intangibles of an elite QB?  If his name wasn't Baker Mayfield, people would be jumping all over to draft this guy #1.

I've tried telling you guys, as someone who has WATCHED him for years. Not just read/youtubed him. 

Would 100% be on board w him at #1

 

[beer 30]

In other news, Browns are the first to schedule a private visit with Mayfield.

In regards to possibly landing spots for Mayfield in the Draft, the author posits..

High Football IQ tied with a near photographic memory and the intangibles of an elite QB?  If his name wasn't Baker Mayfield, people would be jumping all over to draft this guy #1.

Now imagine if he was 2" taller...

Would he be the undisputed #1? Have to be right?

Sorry, back to your regularly scheduled program.

 

[massraider]

As someone that has put his life on the line to protect freedom its so sad to see it attacked. 

Browns fans, you have a bunch of interesting things to talk about this offseason. Don't waste any more time with this.