moleculo
Footballguy
Some people actually want what's good for the country, not whats good for the party.
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Do Democrats want or not want Trump to win the 2024 republican nomination? (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter supermike80
- Start date
moleculo
Footballguy
I don't want any chance that Trump sniffs the White House again.
If Trump was the GOP nominee and Biden / Harris / Bernie / (insert name here) was favored by 80 points, that's too much for me.
There are no guarantees. The juice isn't worth the squeeze.
Edit: in before this is labeled an emotional reaction lol.
If Trump was the GOP nominee and Biden / Harris / Bernie / (insert name here) was favored by 80 points, that's too much for me.
There are no guarantees. The juice isn't worth the squeeze.
Edit: in before this is labeled an emotional reaction lol.
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sho nuff
Footballguy
Yes. And Trump (and Biden) running is not what is good for the country. But apparently that is just my emotions speaking…I should relax and calm down and all that. Has nothing tondo with the logic of the circus that all brings, furthering the divide, and bad policy. Nope, just feelings.
BladeRunner
Footballguy
The Future Champs said:
Lighten up, Francis.
If you don't want differing opinions, then best you stay out of the PSF. Find a bubble somewhere else and stay in it.
joffer
Footballguy
BladeRunner
Footballguy
Let me know when you find them in the Democrat Party.
Although, I still think you're looking for a Unicorn, but good luck!
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moleculo
Footballguy
If you read carefully, you will note I didn't say the democrats are the answer.Let me know when you find them in the Democrat Party.
Although, I still think you're looking for a Unicorn, but good luck!
BladeRunner
Footballguy
sho nuff
Footballguy
And multiple people in here have said they don’t want Trump even if it means the Democrats lose. Because quite literally we want country to do well over party.
supermike80
Footballguy
Thats an emotional response. Isn't the good for the country beating the Republican nominee in 2024? Especially if it happens to be Trump?
supermike80
Footballguy
So its about emotions. Listen i get that. I totally do. Denying thats the reason is weird to me
supermike80
Footballguy
This is not trolling. Never was. This is a serious question.The Future Champs said:
moleculo
Footballguy
supermike80
Footballguy
Thats a very level headed, logical response. Others have said that too. The risk is too great.
But if you were assured a dem win in 2024, still no to Trump?
supermike80
Footballguy
I will when I see one. In fact I just replied to one. And stop being offended when someone calls your replies emotional. Thats not a bad thing. Why so afraid to admit it?
moleculo
Footballguy
I don't care R vs D. They both have strong areas and week areas.
I detest partisan hackery in general.
moleculo
Footballguy
supermike80
Footballguy
Ok. This question then is more directed at the dems. Those who do not want a republican president in 2024.
moleculo
Footballguy
So you are basically looking to argue with other blowhard partisan hacks, but from the D side?
OK, but I'm not sure there are very many willing to put party over country on the D side.
timschochet
Footballguy
I think that, from the beginning of Trump’s first campaign for President in 2015, there has been a real distinction between those who believe he represents a real threat to our democracy, and those who think he’s just another chapter in the everlasting game and struggle between Democrats and Republicans, conservatives and liberals.
I’m in the former group, and apparently many people here are. The OP appears to be in the latter group. I should note that many in the latter group aren’t necessarily supporters of Trump; I don’t think @supermike80 is. They just don’t see him as the threat to our way of life that we do. I wish they would.
I’m in the former group, and apparently many people here are. The OP appears to be in the latter group. I should note that many in the latter group aren’t necessarily supporters of Trump; I don’t think @supermike80 is. They just don’t see him as the threat to our way of life that we do. I wish they would.
supermike80
Footballguy
I wont call democrats partisan hacks. Ans those that want a democratic president on 2024 dont fall into that category.
sho nuff
Footballguy
No…its quite clear you don’t get it or just being obtuse.
I often deny things that are not true.
jhib
Footballguy
This armchair psychologist thinks you might be projecting your own emotional tie to your party to other people's rational responses rejecting the importance of that kind of emotional tie.
moleculo
Footballguy
Anyone who wants a candidate from a particular party, regardless of fitness for office or opposing candidate, is a partisan hack.
Hackery exists on both sides, but I don't believe anyone has posted as such here.
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I hope it's Romney. (It won't be.) I might vote for him over Biden or Harris.
If we want it to be someone who can't possibly win, I'd much rather it be Mike Pence than Donald Trump.
If we want it to be someone who can't possibly win, I'd much rather it be Mike Pence than Donald Trump.
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The Future Champs said:
I haven't seen any of this thread. But definitely put people on ignore and don't engage with them if you don't want to read what they write.
But also don't insult other posters calling them trolls. If you see a poster that is going over the line with trolling, please report it. I have no idea what specifically you're referencing but lots of posters on both sides are quick to use the troll insult when the reality is it's closer to just something they disagree with. Thanks.
You ask every single person you interact with their political affiliation and who they want to win the nom? Cool guy
Oh, the irony.
2Squirrels1Nut
Footballguy
There's no need to be nasty.You ask every single person you interact with their political affiliation and who they want to win the nom? Cool guy
Oh, the irony.
I volunteer as councilor. As you can imagine, the political climate in the our country is something everybody talks about. Whether or not someone likes Trump is very apparent. Then there's some republicans who want him to run and win because they believe he can fix the country. It's anecdotal for sure but not a single person who doesn't like Trump has expressed the feeling that they want him to run again for any reason. I was replying to the post that there were democrats he/she knows that wants him to run again.
FWIW, I don't offer political advice or really much of anything. There are a lot of people that are lonely and just want to talk to someone, to be listened to, to be understood.
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timschochet
Footballguy
One guy offers a detailed explanation of why he would prefer just about anyone but Trump. The response by the OP is, “OK so you’re emotional”. The guy responds that he is not being emotional and explains why once again. The OP responds “hey it’s OK to be emotional; I get emotional too,”
Little bit of trolling there.
supermike80
Footballguy
Not even close. I was feeling for logical thought out replies and I didn't get them. There were tons of replies about how Trump is mean and whatever, but few real answers to the question. We all agree liberals are more emotionally driven and I was trying to get to real logic. Was far harder than I realized it would be.
Not trolling. My question was legit. Still not totally sure where dems stand here except to say they are scared.
However, respectfully, if someone is responding emotionally and I tell him I get that response, and even do it myself. Why does that person get mad? Does it offend him to be called emotional? I don't get that.
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timschochet
Footballguy
I’ll let my comments stand, I think I was pretty accurate.
And by the way, the statement “we all agree liberals are more emotionally driven and I was trying to get to real logic” is trolling as well.
supermike80
Footballguy
Its not trolling!! Why is that trolling??? Why is saying liberals are more emotional a bad thing? Why why why
timschochet
Footballguy
supermike80
Footballguy
jhib
Footballguy
There is nothing wrong with including emotion along with logical thought. Your implication was that the responses were emotion-based instead of logic-based, and you failed to point out why they were lacking logic.
In the spirit of charity, I think you were simply misunderstanding many of the posts. My reason for that is that you when two people seemed to me to be saying the same thing, you labelled one post emotional and one reasonable.
But then it could also be that your assumption that liberals are more emotionally driven simply causes you to read responses from people you have labelled liberal with a certain emotional tone that just isn't there.
jhib
Footballguy
I know you're not asking me as an independent, but this new hypothetical brings a completely different risk/benefit calculation.
I'm not really concerned with assuring a dem win, but I do like the sound of a 100% certain Trump loss. I'd be willing to risk the potential damage he'd cause during the runup to the election for the loss of power and influence he'd suffer by losing. Maybe it's wishful thinking, but I would imagine it would be easier for the right to finally distance itself from the two-time loser. IMO, his running again, winning the nomination, and losing the election would be better than him not running at all and shooting off on the sidelines.
But again, that's not a reasonable hypothetical and completely different than your original question.
timschochet
Footballguy
I know that’s what you want. I’m very reluctant to report anything. It just seems like bad form to me. I’d prefer not to see anyone suspended.
In any case this was pretty subtle: it WAS trolling IMO but you need to read more than one post, and all the responses, to reach that conclusion.
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
Joe, I've mostly followed your advice and refused to engage with posters I find annoying. But one point I want to make is that "trolling" is not always an easily definable, reportable offense. Sometimes it's more of a general way that certain posters respond to others: a refusal to engage with the substance of opposing arguments, a lack of good faith, etc. I find arguing with them is like nailing Jello to a wall. IMO people like that lower the discourse as much, if not more, than some of the comments that get people banned.
I don't know what the answer is for you as a moderator. I think it's just really hard to police discourse on contentious topics. But I do agree that the answer for us as individual posters is not to give such people oxygen by getting drawn into pointless arguments.
What happens if Trump loses the electoral college but it’s much closer this time. A state that has given it’s legislature the right to sent an alternate slate of electors ( Republicans in Wisconsin secretly elected GOP electors, other states are attempting to grant their legislatures the same electoral certification over ride)
Perdue is running in Georgia against Kemp as the GOP candidate for governor and said he would not have certified the Georgia results for Biden. AG Raffensperger refused to find the 11,000 votes Trump asked him for. He’ll be gone. Liz Cheney is done, Kinzinger is gone. 70% of Republicans still think Biden is not the legitimate President.
The problem is if Trump doesn’t get shellacked by close to 100 electoral votes he’ ll claim he won again and you tell me why the majority of his party will not agree? Sure he should be easy beat but if things continue see Biden’s approval rating remain low but he runs again. The country will want a change and many will vote for Trump who will win the nomination if he runs.
I don’t need a Democrat to win but I would take that over any Trump clone or enabler. But there isn’t any Republican that was not loyal to Trump who can win. If I had my choice someone like Governor Larry Hogan(R) would be someone I could support. ( note I will not vote for any Republican who doesn’t acknowledge climate change and look to take some action to deal with it)
No apologies if you find this too dramatic or emotional.
Perdue is running in Georgia against Kemp as the GOP candidate for governor and said he would not have certified the Georgia results for Biden. AG Raffensperger refused to find the 11,000 votes Trump asked him for. He’ll be gone. Liz Cheney is done, Kinzinger is gone. 70% of Republicans still think Biden is not the legitimate President.
The problem is if Trump doesn’t get shellacked by close to 100 electoral votes he’ ll claim he won again and you tell me why the majority of his party will not agree? Sure he should be easy beat but if things continue see Biden’s approval rating remain low but he runs again. The country will want a change and many will vote for Trump who will win the nomination if he runs.
I don’t need a Democrat to win but I would take that over any Trump clone or enabler. But there isn’t any Republican that was not loyal to Trump who can win. If I had my choice someone like Governor Larry Hogan(R) would be someone I could support. ( note I will not vote for any Republican who doesn’t acknowledge climate change and look to take some action to deal with it)
No apologies if you find this too dramatic or emotional.
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KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Trolling is a bit much, but of course he was
. sho. You would have been the one scolded for wanting a mods if you'd reported it.
Thank you. I don’t disagree at all that it’s very often not a bright line and clear-cut.
It very often can be just snarky and condescending replies. Most people know exactly when they doing it and some are even pretty good at it. Knowing how far they can insult the other poster yet still be able to shrug with a “who me?” and claim they didn’t really say anything over the line.
It’s discouraging. The only real answer I know is to do as you’re saying and just don’t engage and move past it. Thanks.
supermike80
Footballguy
Thats correct. It can be easy to just pass on things that don't interest you. I don't know why people want to get angry over these things
The flipside is this board works best when we all are aiming for civil discussion. That often means there is some responsibility on the writer to not write things others looking for good discussion will have to ignore.
We all can be better.
supermike80
Footballguy
Point taken. However I will do a little "who me" but yeah. Juat cause it's my opinion rhT doesn't make it right
roadkill1292
Footballguy
It's not emotional to recognize that on an objective comparison of relative merits, Trump comes in second to almost every rival he has in either party. He just spent four years demonstrating his unfitness for the job.
What's emotional is seeing him as a brilliant patriot who will return the country to some kind of invented utopia of the past. The red hats tearing up when Donald hugs the flag at a rally are the folks letting their emotions run away with them.
What's emotional is seeing him as a brilliant patriot who will return the country to some kind of invented utopia of the past. The red hats tearing up when Donald hugs the flag at a rally are the folks letting their emotions run away with them.
Well put. I'd be fine with a Republican pres if it's not Trump. I'd be fine with any pres who puts democracy first. The Trump era just showed me the playbook to criminalize the office, and (to this point in time so far) how to get away with it.
I know in general the thread has turned predictably into taking shots at each side.
Back to the topic, do you think Democrats should hope Trump is the nominee again?
Back to the topic, do you think Democrats should hope Trump is the nominee again?
djmich
Footballguy
No.
For strategic reasons I don't think its a great idea, the idea may be that he is very beatable but if there's one thing that has been proven is that traditional electoral models and predictions don't work well with Trump.
In general I think republicans and democrats should both be hoping he disappears, he's caustic for everyone.
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