Electric Cars (Tesla and Others) (2 Viewers)

[culdeus]

One other battery related question. I understand they “degrade” over time, and results in a drop in range. Is that really that only outcome, or does the car lose acceleration or any other abilities? If a car’s range drops from 300 to 280 or so it’s really wouldn’t have any impact on me and my daily driving, but if there are other things to consider with an aging battery I’ll have to take those into account. Thanks.

Tesla removed performance changes at the ends of battery state of charge about six months back. Probably because they didn't accomplish anything. The exception is sentry mode at 20% that's still there.

I don’t mean performance difference from state of charge, I mean performance differences (acceleration, torque) from an aged/degraded battery. Does a battery with 90% “health”(if that’s the term to use) only have impacts on range, or would it also impact other characteristics?

I mean there is a tiny reduction in top end speed or acceleration below 75%.

 

[Psychopav]

One other battery related question. I understand they “degrade” over time, and results in a drop in range. Is that really that only outcome, or does the car lose acceleration or any other abilities? If a car’s range drops from 300 to 280 or so it’s really wouldn’t have any impact on me and my daily driving, but if there are other things to consider with an aging battery I’ll have to take those into account. Thanks.

Tesla removed performance changes at the ends of battery state of charge about six months back. Probably because they didn't accomplish anything. The exception is sentry mode at 20% that's still there.

I don’t mean performance difference from state of charge, I mean performance differences (acceleration, torque) from an aged/degraded battery. Does a battery with 90% “health”(if that’s the term to use) only have impacts on range, or would it also impact other characteristics?

I mean there is a tiny reduction in top end speed or acceleration below 75%.

Are you talking about SOC or battery degradation %age?

 

[culdeus]

One other battery related question. I understand they “degrade” over time, and results in a drop in range. Is that really that only outcome, or does the car lose acceleration or any other abilities? If a car’s range drops from 300 to 280 or so it’s really wouldn’t have any impact on me and my daily driving, but if there are other things to consider with an aging battery I’ll have to take those into account. Thanks.

Tesla removed performance changes at the ends of battery state of charge about six months back. Probably because they didn't accomplish anything. The exception is sentry mode at 20% that's still there.

I don’t mean performance difference from state of charge, I mean performance differences (acceleration, torque) from an aged/degraded battery. Does a battery with 90% “health”(if that’s the term to use) only have impacts on range, or would it also impact other characteristics?

I mean there is a tiny reduction in top end speed or acceleration below 75%.

Are you talking about SOC or battery degradation %age?

Soc. But that range is linear so with deg it probably kicks lower. I mean plaid s 0-60 times are like 0.2s slower and max is like 5 off.

 

[Tick]

In general, on a road trip you are better planning to stop at 20%, preconditioned, and charge to 80% and leave. It's hard to train yourself to do that, but it will be cheaper and faster in the long run.

Start a trip at 100% and just hit the first SC that is 250kw or that you land at south of 20%, then 80% will get you 500 miles in about the same time as an ICE trip unless your bladder is the size of an elephant. It's the 2nd and 3rd stop where you start to lose pace.

Going 20-80 on 250kw chargers in my experience is a <20min duration with precon on. Some SC seem to have worse tapers. The ones with the batteries on site are the best IMO.

I was more asking about the cost to supercharge. There seems to be a pretty big range. Is there a way to see the rates/costs for each charger while on a road trip via the main screen? Like, “hey the one in 15 miles is 40 cents per kWh but the one in 25 miles is only 30”? Also, while charging at home (or even better for free in my town), super charging doesn’t look to be saving much vs gas.

Superchargers won't save much vs gas. I suppose if gas gets to be 4+ maybe. It's not meant to be an every day thing.

Figuring out what the rates are I would abrp as it knows the schedule of rates by time.

Charging at home around 12c/kwh at 300whmi is pretty cheap.

Yeah, from what I've seen, charging on the road costs the same as gasoline as a guideline.

 

[Nugget]

In general, on a road trip you are better planning to stop at 20%, preconditioned, and charge to 80% and leave. It's hard to train yourself to do that, but it will be cheaper and faster in the long run.

Start a trip at 100% and just hit the first SC that is 250kw or that you land at south of 20%, then 80% will get you 500 miles in about the same time as an ICE trip unless your bladder is the size of an elephant. It's the 2nd and 3rd stop where you start to lose pace.

Going 20-80 on 250kw chargers in my experience is a <20min duration with precon on. Some SC seem to have worse tapers. The ones with the batteries on site are the best IMO.

I was more asking about the cost to supercharge. There seems to be a pretty big range. Is there a way to see the rates/costs for each charger while on a road trip via the main screen? Like, “hey the one in 15 miles is 40 cents per kWh but the one in 25 miles is only 30”? Also, while charging at home (or even better for free in my town), super charging doesn’t look to be saving much vs gas.

Superchargers won't save much vs gas. I suppose if gas gets to be 4+ maybe. It's not meant to be an every day thing.

Figuring out what the rates are I would abrp as it knows the schedule of rates by time.

Charging at home around 12c/kwh at 300whmi is pretty cheap.

Yeah, from what I've seen, charging on the road costs the same as gasoline as a guideline.

Paid 0.44/kwh in MO today, 0.39/kwh +0.25 per session. Both are up from early May. Still in for less than $15 for my 300 mile trip.

Looking at a time of use plan for my home - super off peak is less than 0.03/kwh.

 

[Bozeman Bruiser]

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I have been an ev hater for a while but starting to think it might make sense due to a change in work/mileage/travel.

I don't really want to have to install a home charger because likely moving within 12 months. They just put in 8 free 50kw chargers at the university where I work out/swim/play tennis so it got me wondering if that would be sufficient. Say I drove 300 mi/wk would having a charger like that I could plug into for 60 minutes 5 days a week get the job done?

Also saw my first cyber truck in person here last week, those mfrs are huge, lol. I hated them at first, but they are growing on me. Kinda remind me of a truck version of the old Lambo Countach. Some of the wrapped ones I've seen online look even better.

Anyway, this video of the CT doing all the Jeep things in Moab caught my eye and led me here.

Anyone here have a CT?

Edit: not sure what the chargers are but have seen Teslas and non Teslas both charging there.

 

[fruity pebbles]

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:squirt: :squirt: :squirt:

I have been an ev hater for a while but starting to think it might make sense due to a change in work/mileage/travel.

I don't really want to have to install a home charger because likely moving within 12 months. They just put in 8 free 50kw chargers at the university where I work out/swim/play tennis so it got me wondering if that would be sufficient. Say I drove 300 mi/wk would having a charger like that I could plug into for 60 minutes 5 days a week get the job done?

Also saw my first cyber truck in person here last week, those mfrs are huge, lol. I hated them at first, but they are growing on me. Kinda remind me of a truck version of the old Lambo Countach. Some of the wrapped ones I've seen online look even better.

Anyway, this video of the CT doing all the Jeep things in Moab caught my eye and led me here.

Anyone here have a CT?

Edit: not sure what the chargers are but have seen Teslas and non Teslas both charging there.

You would probably only have to plug in twice a week depending on which car you buy. I’d scope it out to make sure there are open chargers when you frequent the place.

 

[Ron Swanson]

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:squirt: :squirt: :squirt:

I have been an ev hater for a while but starting to think it might make sense due to a change in work/mileage/travel.

I don't really want to have to install a home charger because likely moving within 12 months. They just put in 8 free 50kw chargers at the university where I work out/swim/play tennis so it got me wondering if that would be sufficient. Say I drove 300 mi/wk would having a charger like that I could plug into for 60 minutes 5 days a week get the job done?

Also saw my first cyber truck in person here last week, those mfrs are huge, lol. I hated them at first, but they are growing on me. Kinda remind me of a truck version of the old Lambo Countach. Some of the wrapped ones I've seen online look even better.

Anyway, this video of the CT doing all the Jeep things in Moab caught my eye and led me here.

Anyone here have a CT?

Edit: not sure what the chargers are but have seen Teslas and non Teslas both charging there.

You may not even have to "install" a home charger for that limited use. A portable home charger that can plug into 120 VAC (Level 1) or a 30 amp dryer plug (low Level 2) would get it done. You don't need the big 40-48 amp level 2 charger that needs a 60 amp circuit.

 

[the moops]

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:squirt: :squirt: :squirt:

I have been an ev hater for a while but starting to think it might make sense due to a change in work/mileage/travel.

I don't really want to have to install a home charger because likely moving within 12 months. They just put in 8 free 50kw chargers at the university where I work out/swim/play tennis so it got me wondering if that would be sufficient. Say I drove 300 mi/wk would having a charger like that I could plug into for 60 minutes 5 days a week get the job done?

Also saw my first cyber truck in person here last week, those mfrs are huge, lol. I hated them at first, but they are growing on me. Kinda remind me of a truck version of the old Lambo Countach. Some of the wrapped ones I've seen online look even better.

Anyway, this video of the CT doing all the Jeep things in Moab caught my eye and led me here.

Anyone here have a CT?

Edit: not sure what the chargers are but have seen Teslas and non Teslas both charging there.

You may not even have to "install" a home charger for that limited use. A portable home charger that can plug into 120 VAC (Level 1) or a 30 amp dryer plug (low Level 2) would get it done. You don't need the big 40-48 amp level 2 charger that needs a 60 amp circuit.

Yea, even the slowest charging EV's get about 4 miles per hour of charging at 120V. You could charge at that low level for 12 hours a day and that would suffice no matter how your 300 miles is dispersed throughout the week

 

[Nugget]

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:squirt: :squirt: :squirt:

I have been an ev hater for a while but starting to think it might make sense due to a change in work/mileage/travel.

I don't really want to have to install a home charger because likely moving within 12 months. They just put in 8 free 50kw chargers at the university where I work out/swim/play tennis so it got me wondering if that would be sufficient. Say I drove 300 mi/wk would having a charger like that I could plug into for 60 minutes 5 days a week get the job done?

Also saw my first cyber truck in person here last week, those mfrs are huge, lol. I hated them at first, but they are growing on me. Kinda remind me of a truck version of the old Lambo Countach. Some of the wrapped ones I've seen online look even better.

Anyway, this video of the CT doing all the Jeep things in Moab caught my eye and led me here.

Anyone here have a CT?

Edit: not sure what the chargers are but have seen Teslas and non Teslas both charging there.

50 Kw would get you ballpark 100-150 miles depending on the efficiency and weight of the vehicle. I’d lease or buy used - depreciation on these is real.

 

[BassNBrew]

x.com

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:squirt: :squirt: :squirt:

I have been an ev hater for a while but starting to think it might make sense due to a change in work/mileage/travel.

I don't really want to have to install a home charger because likely moving within 12 months. They just put in 8 free 50kw chargers at the university where I work out/swim/play tennis so it got me wondering if that would be sufficient. Say I drove 300 mi/wk would having a charger like that I could plug into for 60 minutes 5 days a week get the job done?

Also saw my first cyber truck in person here last week, those mfrs are huge, lol. I hated them at first, but they are growing on me. Kinda remind me of a truck version of the old Lambo Countach. Some of the wrapped ones I've seen online look even better.

Anyway, this video of the CT doing all the Jeep things in Moab caught my eye and led me here.

Anyone here have a CT?

Edit: not sure what the chargers are but have seen Teslas and non Teslas both charging there.

I saw a wrapped CT yesterday and it looked amazing. I've seen a couple of regular ones in the wild and I'm un-warming up to them. They really look cheaping built.

 

[culdeus]

x.com

x.com

:squirt: :squirt: :squirt:

I have been an ev hater for a while but starting to think it might make sense due to a change in work/mileage/travel.

I don't really want to have to install a home charger because likely moving within 12 months. They just put in 8 free 50kw chargers at the university where I work out/swim/play tennis so it got me wondering if that would be sufficient. Say I drove 300 mi/wk would having a charger like that I could plug into for 60 minutes 5 days a week get the job done?

Also saw my first cyber truck in person here last week, those mfrs are huge, lol. I hated them at first, but they are growing on me. Kinda remind me of a truck version of the old Lambo Countach. Some of the wrapped ones I've seen online look even better.

Anyway, this video of the CT doing all the Jeep things in Moab caught my eye and led me here.

Anyone here have a CT?

Edit: not sure what the chargers are but have seen Teslas and non Teslas both charging there.

They are probably j chargers which you can adapt. Gets you 30+mph.

That for an hour and 110 overnight will be more than enough. If you can run a camper extension cord from a dryer plug to the car somehow in an emergency that would get you L2 at home. More and more people are opting that way to be cheap.

 

[Psychopav]

I picked up this adapter a couple weeks ago since I have a 48A J1772 (L2 non-Tesla) charger in my garage that I installed last year when I leased the EV6. Got it for < $25 and I figure prices will have to go up once the US switches over to NACS across the board. I don't want to be stuck with a charger in my garage that won't work on some EV I acquire in the future.

Plus this way I can accommodate any guests who have NACS ports. I mean, someday that might be necessary, right?

 

[Ray Barboni]

I picked up this adapter a couple weeks ago since I have a 48A J1772 (L2 non-Tesla) charger in my garage that I installed last year when I leased the EV6. Got it for < $25 and I figure prices will have to go up once the US switches over to NACS across the board. I don't want to be stuck with a charger in my garage that won't work on some EV I acquire in the future.

Plus this way I can accommodate any guests who have NACS ports. I mean, someday that might be necessary, right?

How’d you like the EV6? I’m considering that as a next vehicle. I work in he industry, but this would be my first EV daily driver.

 

[the moops]

Almost a year in, my Bolt has been the best car I’ve owned. I’ve made a lot of stupid purchases in my life but dropping 21k on this wasn’t one of them. Zero issues, getting over 300 miles on a charge right now on all weather tires. Saved $2000 first year on gas/ maintenance expenses.

Same here. Have had the EUV Bolt just over a year. Getting 300+ in good weather

https://imgur.com/a/6pNri9m

 

[fruity pebbles]

Almost a year in, my Bolt has been the best car I’ve owned. I’ve made a lot of stupid purchases in my life but dropping 21k on this wasn’t one of them. Zero issues, getting over 300 miles on a charge right now on all weather tires. Saved $2000 first year on gas/ maintenance expenses.

Same here. Have had the EUV Bolt just over a year. Getting 300+ in good weather

https://imgur.com/a/6pNri9m

Yup. I had to full charge about a month ago to get my daughter in another state, the guesstimator read 330 miles.

 

[Psychopav]

I picked up this adapter a couple weeks ago since I have a 48A J1772 (L2 non-Tesla) charger in my garage that I installed last year when I leased the EV6. Got it for < $25 and I figure prices will have to go up once the US switches over to NACS across the board. I don't want to be stuck with a charger in my garage that won't work on some EV I acquire in the future.

Plus this way I can accommodate any guests who have NACS ports. I mean, someday that might be necessary, right?

How’d you like the EV6? I’m considering that as a next vehicle. I work in he industry, but this would be my first EV daily driver.

I'm really liking it. My first EV, and I chose to lease instead of buy both because the tax incentive is only there on the lease (they are not assembled in the US so the purchase incentive isn't there) and because I assume by the time the lease is up the marketplace will offer a ton more options.

I don't see myself going back to an ICE car, and the latest generation of adaptive cruise control is fantastic. Is it a perfect car? Not by a long shot. But it may be my favorite car I've owned so far, which is really saying something.

 

[Joe Bryant]

I have a friend that owns several new car dealerships and he told me this about 6 months ago. I thought maybe it was just in my area. Sounds like it's more widespread.

And opportunity in used vehicles.

From WIRED magazine. This isn't FOX news.

EVs Are Losing Up to 50 Percent of Their Value in One Year​

Some electric car brands are hemorrhaging value, with the worst losing as much as $600 a day. In this investigation, WIRED outlines the models to watch, why this is happening, and how you could game the market to your advantage.

EVs Are Losing Up to 50 Percent of Their Value in One Year

Some electric car brands are hemorrhaging value, with the worst losing as much as $600 a day. In this investigation, WIRED outlines which models to watch, why this is happening, and how you can game the market to your advantage.

www.wired.com

 

[Ron Swanson]

Yeah, it's kinda crazy. We won't do well financially long term with our Mach-E because of the depreciation. We actually made money on our previous two vehicles (Wranglers). They are very different vehicles but the Mach-E is vastly superior in quality, features, cost to operate, reliability, etc. but we will not do well when we sell it. The good news is we plan to keep it for a long time at this point. It's great fun to drive and has great tech. Charging for pennies or free is also great but not that big of a benefit. I figure in the 32k miles we've driven it we've probably saved $3,000 on fuel. Long term we may make out on reduced maintenance. Or not.

It's a great opportunity to buy any of the better EV's on the used market right now if you have good access to level 2 charging. Possibly even new from scared dealers. If your use case supports it.

I'm sticking with my ICE truck as a second vehicle for now, primarily for road trips until the charging infrastructure improves.

 

[Nugget]

Yeah, it's kinda crazy. We won't do well financially long term with our Mach-E because of the depreciation. We actually made money on our previous two vehicles (Wranglers). They are very different vehicles but the Mach-E is vastly superior in quality, features, cost to operate, reliability, etc. but we will not do well when we sell it. The good news is we plan to keep it for a long time at this point. It's great fun to drive and has great tech. Charging for pennies or free is also great but not that big of a benefit. I figure in the 32k miles we've driven it we've probably saved $3,000 on fuel. Long term we may make out on reduced maintenance. Or not.

It's a great opportunity to buy any of the better EV's on the used market right now if you have good access to level 2 charging. Possibly even new from scared dealers. If your use case supports it.

I'm sticking with my ICE truck as a second vehicle for now, primarily for road trips until the charging infrastructure improves.

Agree with your take. My parents bought a 2022 MachE in Dec 22 - it is probably worth $23K vs the $50K they paid for it. I don't think it will really depreciate much more though. They aren't selling and they enjoy the car.

I bought a 2023 Lightning Pro (base model) in Dec 22 as well. I sold it in May 23 and got sticker for it. There was no availabilty on that model and it was priced $20-30K less than most dealer stock. Pro inventory is still extremely hard to find, but I got out at the right time.

Currently leasing a 2023 Mach E - will order a replacement 2025 Mach E to lease this fall.

This spring, GF bought a 2021 VW ID4 Pro with under 500 miles for under 25K. Then got the 4K tax credit. Amazing deal. CPO VW with 3.99 rate for 36 months.

If I'm going to go on a trip over 350 miles, I'll take my daughters car.

 

[beer 30]

I think I mentioned upthread that my company signed up to order 700 Ford Lightning's back in 2022. As of today we've taken about half and cancelled the remainder of the order. We are currently selling them off as the field personal give them up because they just don't work for what we use them for. We've actually done pretty well on the sales getting at or slightly above book. I think there is a secondary market that is building for these EV's as people either fall out of love with them or like Sunbelt, bought them for a purpose that can't fulfill. Smart shoppers are buying them up for a lot less than the new car sticker but still enjoying a long life with them.

https://fordauthority.com/2022/04/sunbelt-rentals-orders-700-ford-f-150-lightning-pickups/

 

[Psychopav]

I have a friend that owns several new car dealerships and he told me this about 6 months ago. I thought maybe it was just in my area. Sounds like it's more widespread.

And opportunity in used vehicles.

From WIRED magazine. This isn't FOX news.

EVs Are Losing Up to 50 Percent of Their Value in One Year​

Some electric car brands are hemorrhaging value, with the worst losing as much as $600 a day. In this investigation, WIRED outlines the models to watch, why this is happening, and how you could game the market to your advantage.

EVs Are Losing Up to 50 Percent of Their Value in One Year

Some electric car brands are hemorrhaging value, with the worst losing as much as $600 a day. In this investigation, WIRED outlines which models to watch, why this is happening, and how you can game the market to your advantage.

www.wired.com

Hey JB this article is behind a paywall. Can you let us know which cars are the so-called worst offenders?

I am so glad I decided to lease my EV6...2 years from now I am going to be in the driver's seat. (see what I did there? )

By the way, does anyone know: are used EV's eligible for tax credits, or just new ones?

 

[fruity pebbles]

I have a friend that owns several new car dealerships and he told me this about 6 months ago. I thought maybe it was just in my area. Sounds like it's more widespread.

And opportunity in used vehicles.

From WIRED magazine. This isn't FOX news.

EVs Are Losing Up to 50 Percent of Their Value in One Year​

Some electric car brands are hemorrhaging value, with the worst losing as much as $600 a day. In this investigation, WIRED outlines the models to watch, why this is happening, and how you could game the market to your advantage.

EVs Are Losing Up to 50 Percent of Their Value in One Year

Some electric car brands are hemorrhaging value, with the worst losing as much as $600 a day. In this investigation, WIRED outlines which models to watch, why this is happening, and how you can game the market to your advantage.

www.wired.com

Hey JB this article is behind a paywall. Can you let us know which cars are the so-called worst offenders?

I am so glad I decided to lease my EV6...2 years from now I am going to be in the driver's seat. (see what I did there? )

By the way, does anyone know: are used EV's eligible for tax credits, or just new ones?

Certain new ones are, 4 grand. They have to be atleast a model year old.

 

[Joe Bryant]

I have a friend that owns several new car dealerships and he told me this about 6 months ago. I thought maybe it was just in my area. Sounds like it's more widespread.

And opportunity in used vehicles.

From WIRED magazine. This isn't FOX news.

EVs Are Losing Up to 50 Percent of Their Value in One Year​

Some electric car brands are hemorrhaging value, with the worst losing as much as $600 a day. In this investigation, WIRED outlines the models to watch, why this is happening, and how you could game the market to your advantage.

EVs Are Losing Up to 50 Percent of Their Value in One Year

Some electric car brands are hemorrhaging value, with the worst losing as much as $600 a day. In this investigation, WIRED outlines which models to watch, why this is happening, and how you can game the market to your advantage.

www.wired.com

Hey JB this article is behind a paywall. Can you let us know which cars are the so-called worst offenders?

I am so glad I decided to lease my EV6...2 years from now I am going to be in the driver's seat. (see what I did there? )

By the way, does anyone know: are used EV's eligible for tax credits, or just new ones?

We are using two tools for this research. The first is an online appraisal system by Edmunds, the US automotive industry resource, and the second is Cap HPI, a vehicle valuation service for the UK auto trade. Let’s start with the UK electric trade-in landscape, then compare it with the US’s.

Main Offenders​

Our first discovery was that, in the UK, various new electric cars lose 50 percent of their value in the first 12 months. Yes, you read that right—some EVs depreciate by 50 percent in a single year.


Now, this cannot be said of every EV, but Cap HPI data provided to WIRED by Parkers, a respected UK online car resource, revealed how six different EVs are all projected to halve in value after 12 months and 10,000 miles. These include the Audi e-Tron GT, which plummeted by 49 percent from £107,675 ($138,000) to £54,700 ($70,100), and the Ford Mustang Mach-E, which fell by 52 percent from £59,325 to £28,575. According to the data, a Polestar 2 would also lose 52 percent of its £52,895 sticker price in just 12 months.


The Tesla Model 3 fared only slightly better, falling by 45 percent in its first 12 months and 10,000 miles, while the Porsche Taycan fell by 49 percent and the Hyundai Ioniq 5 lost exactly half in the same period. These prices are all based on a midspec version of each car, since factors like battery size, trim level, and even paint color can have a marked effect on trade-in value.

Miley Face​

But do you know what has less of an impact on depreciation? Mileage. If the long-range Polestar 2 mentioned above had covered 20,000 miles in its first year instead of 10,000—well above the annual UK average of just 7,000—its estimated trade-in value falls by only an extra £975, or a further 2 percent of its original price.

It’s a similar story with the Taycan. A 4S model with the long-range battery fell from £100,200 to £50,700 in its first 12 months and 10,000 miles. But if it had covered 20,000 miles in the same year it would have fallen by only another £2,650. Or, after two years and 20,000 miles it would be worth £44,175, according to the Cap HPI data. Age (beyond the first 12 months) has a similarly insignificant effect. A 10,000-mile Taycan is worth £50,700 after one year, or £46,600 after two years.


YouTuber The MacMaster has been charting the decrease in value of his own two-year-old Taycan, which dropped from a new price of £120,000 down to a Porsche dealership valuation of £44,650 in March earlier this year, leaving him in negative equity as he still owes approximately £64,700 on the EV. To make matters worse, the Porsche dealership giving the valuation supposedly refused to take his Taycan.

Remember, these are all estimated trade-in values. You would expect to earn more by selling the car privately, and you’d see the same car advertised for more by a dealer to ensure they make a profit.


Depreciation of the Tesla Model 3 also slows significantly after the first year. Cap HPI data states how a 2023 Model 3 Long Range would fall from £50,000 to £27,550 after one year and 10,000 miles, then by only an additional £2,500 after two years and 20,000 miles. Had the first 10,000 miles been spread over 18 months instead of 12, the price would fall by only an extra £825 in those six months.

The ability for Tesla, and other EV manufacturers, to update and upgrade a car’s software months or even years after it left the factory should help with long-term depreciation. We’ve seen how Tesla can push out major user interface upgrades, and even add entirely new features, over the air. Back in 2019, Jaguar pushed out a software update that claimed to increase the range of its I-Pace by up to 8 percent, and in 2022 the Polestar 2 gained Apple CarPlay—a feature that manufacturers used to charge handsomely for—via a free OTA update.

 

[Psychopav]

I have a friend that owns several new car dealerships and he told me this about 6 months ago. I thought maybe it was just in my area. Sounds like it's more widespread.

And opportunity in used vehicles.

From WIRED magazine. This isn't FOX news.

EVs Are Losing Up to 50 Percent of Their Value in One Year​

Some electric car brands are hemorrhaging value, with the worst losing as much as $600 a day. In this investigation, WIRED outlines the models to watch, why this is happening, and how you could game the market to your advantage.

EVs Are Losing Up to 50 Percent of Their Value in One Year

Some electric car brands are hemorrhaging value, with the worst losing as much as $600 a day. In this investigation, WIRED outlines which models to watch, why this is happening, and how you can game the market to your advantage.

www.wired.com

Hey JB this article is behind a paywall. Can you let us know which cars are the so-called worst offenders?

I am so glad I decided to lease my EV6...2 years from now I am going to be in the driver's seat. (see what I did there? )

By the way, does anyone know: are used EV's eligible for tax credits, or just new ones?

Certain new ones are, 4 grand. They have to be atleast a model year old.

At least, or no more than?

 

[fruity pebbles]

I have a friend that owns several new car dealerships and he told me this about 6 months ago. I thought maybe it was just in my area. Sounds like it's more widespread.

And opportunity in used vehicles.

From WIRED magazine. This isn't FOX news.

EVs Are Losing Up to 50 Percent of Their Value in One Year​

Some electric car brands are hemorrhaging value, with the worst losing as much as $600 a day. In this investigation, WIRED outlines the models to watch, why this is happening, and how you could game the market to your advantage.

EVs Are Losing Up to 50 Percent of Their Value in One Year

Some electric car brands are hemorrhaging value, with the worst losing as much as $600 a day. In this investigation, WIRED outlines which models to watch, why this is happening, and how you can game the market to your advantage.

www.wired.com

Hey JB this article is behind a paywall. Can you let us know which cars are the so-called worst offenders?

I am so glad I decided to lease my EV6...2 years from now I am going to be in the driver's seat. (see what I did there? )

By the way, does anyone know: are used EV's eligible for tax credits, or just new ones?

Certain new ones are, 4 grand. They have to be atleast a model year old.

At least, or no more than?

I believe 4 grand is the max

 

[fruity pebbles]

My Bolt hasn’t fallen much at all. Buy cheap ones or lease them.

 

[Psychopav]

I have a friend that owns several new car dealerships and he told me this about 6 months ago. I thought maybe it was just in my area. Sounds like it's more widespread.

And opportunity in used vehicles.

From WIRED magazine. This isn't FOX news.

EVs Are Losing Up to 50 Percent of Their Value in One Year​

Some electric car brands are hemorrhaging value, with the worst losing as much as $600 a day. In this investigation, WIRED outlines the models to watch, why this is happening, and how you could game the market to your advantage.

EVs Are Losing Up to 50 Percent of Their Value in One Year

Some electric car brands are hemorrhaging value, with the worst losing as much as $600 a day. In this investigation, WIRED outlines which models to watch, why this is happening, and how you can game the market to your advantage.

www.wired.com

Hey JB this article is behind a paywall. Can you let us know which cars are the so-called worst offenders?

I am so glad I decided to lease my EV6...2 years from now I am going to be in the driver's seat. (see what I did there? )

By the way, does anyone know: are used EV's eligible for tax credits, or just new ones?

Certain new ones are, 4 grand. They have to be atleast a model year old.

At least, or no more than?

I believe 4 grand is the max

Sorry, I meant the model year - did you mean the model year has to be no more than one year old? Or is this specific to OLDER used EV's (i.e., more than a year old)?

 

[the moops]

I think I mentioned upthread that my company signed up to order 700 Ford Lightning's back in 2022. As of today we've taken about half and cancelled the remainder of the order. We are currently selling them off as the field personal give them up because they just don't work for what we use them for.

Curious how they don't work for how you use them? How do you use them?

 

[Nugget]

I have a friend that owns several new car dealerships and he told me this about 6 months ago. I thought maybe it was just in my area. Sounds like it's more widespread.

And opportunity in used vehicles.

From WIRED magazine. This isn't FOX news.

EVs Are Losing Up to 50 Percent of Their Value in One Year​

Some electric car brands are hemorrhaging value, with the worst losing as much as $600 a day. In this investigation, WIRED outlines the models to watch, why this is happening, and how you could game the market to your advantage.

EVs Are Losing Up to 50 Percent of Their Value in One Year

Some electric car brands are hemorrhaging value, with the worst losing as much as $600 a day. In this investigation, WIRED outlines which models to watch, why this is happening, and how you can game the market to your advantage.

www.wired.com

Hey JB this article is behind a paywall. Can you let us know which cars are the so-called worst offenders?

I am so glad I decided to lease my EV6...2 years from now I am going to be in the driver's seat. (see what I did there? )

By the way, does anyone know: are used EV's eligible for tax credits, or just new ones?

Used EVs 2022 or older are eligible for up to 4K. Income limit of 75K single, 112K HoH, 150K married. New can get up to 7500 but very few qualify.

 

[the moops]

I have a friend that owns several new car dealerships and he told me this about 6 months ago. I thought maybe it was just in my area. Sounds like it's more widespread.

And opportunity in used vehicles.

From WIRED magazine. This isn't FOX news.

EVs Are Losing Up to 50 Percent of Their Value in One Year​

Some electric car brands are hemorrhaging value, with the worst losing as much as $600 a day. In this investigation, WIRED outlines the models to watch, why this is happening, and how you could game the market to your advantage.

EVs Are Losing Up to 50 Percent of Their Value in One Year

Some electric car brands are hemorrhaging value, with the worst losing as much as $600 a day. In this investigation, WIRED outlines which models to watch, why this is happening, and how you can game the market to your advantage.

www.wired.com

Hey JB this article is behind a paywall. Can you let us know which cars are the so-called worst offenders?

I am so glad I decided to lease my EV6...2 years from now I am going to be in the driver's seat. (see what I did there? )

By the way, does anyone know: are used EV's eligible for tax credits, or just new ones?

Used EVs 2022 or older are eligible for up to 4K. Income limit of 75K single, 112K HoH, 150K married. New can get up to 7500 but very few qualify.

Who has the EV that has depreciated by 50% and still qualifies for the 4K tax credit. Someone must have done this research. Would be an absolute steal to get a 2022 something that was like 60K, but now 30K with depreciation but actually 26K with the credit

 

[Nugget]

I have a friend that owns several new car dealerships and he told me this about 6 months ago. I thought maybe it was just in my area. Sounds like it's more widespread.

And opportunity in used vehicles.

From WIRED magazine. This isn't FOX news.

EVs Are Losing Up to 50 Percent of Their Value in One Year​

Some electric car brands are hemorrhaging value, with the worst losing as much as $600 a day. In this investigation, WIRED outlines the models to watch, why this is happening, and how you could game the market to your advantage.

EVs Are Losing Up to 50 Percent of Their Value in One Year

Some electric car brands are hemorrhaging value, with the worst losing as much as $600 a day. In this investigation, WIRED outlines which models to watch, why this is happening, and how you can game the market to your advantage.

www.wired.com

Hey JB this article is behind a paywall. Can you let us know which cars are the so-called worst offenders?

I am so glad I decided to lease my EV6...2 years from now I am going to be in the driver's seat. (see what I did there? )

By the way, does anyone know: are used EV's eligible for tax credits, or just new ones?

Used EVs 2022 or older are eligible for up to 4K. Income limit of 75K single, 112K HoH, 150K married. New can get up to 7500 but very few qualify.

Who has the EV that has depreciated by 50% and still qualifies for the 4K tax credit. Someone must have done this research. Would be an absolute steal to get a 2022 something that was like 60K, but now 30K with depreciation but actually 26K with the credit

Has to be under 25K to qualify. Honestly, there are lots of them that meet that criteria.

 

[the moops]

I have a friend that owns several new car dealerships and he told me this about 6 months ago. I thought maybe it was just in my area. Sounds like it's more widespread.

And opportunity in used vehicles.

From WIRED magazine. This isn't FOX news.

EVs Are Losing Up to 50 Percent of Their Value in One Year​

Some electric car brands are hemorrhaging value, with the worst losing as much as $600 a day. In this investigation, WIRED outlines the models to watch, why this is happening, and how you could game the market to your advantage.

EVs Are Losing Up to 50 Percent of Their Value in One Year

Some electric car brands are hemorrhaging value, with the worst losing as much as $600 a day. In this investigation, WIRED outlines which models to watch, why this is happening, and how you can game the market to your advantage.

www.wired.com

Hey JB this article is behind a paywall. Can you let us know which cars are the so-called worst offenders?

I am so glad I decided to lease my EV6...2 years from now I am going to be in the driver's seat. (see what I did there? )

By the way, does anyone know: are used EV's eligible for tax credits, or just new ones?

Used EVs 2022 or older are eligible for up to 4K. Income limit of 75K single, 112K HoH, 150K married. New can get up to 7500 but very few qualify.

Who has the EV that has depreciated by 50% and still qualifies for the 4K tax credit. Someone must have done this research. Would be an absolute steal to get a 2022 something that was like 60K, but now 30K with depreciation but actually 26K with the credit

Has to be under 25K to qualify. Honestly, there are lots of them that meet that criteria.

Even better. I have never paid more than 25K for a car in my life

 

[beer 30]

I think I mentioned upthread that my company signed up to order 700 Ford Lightning's back in 2022. As of today we've taken about half and cancelled the remainder of the order. We are currently selling them off as the field personal give them up because they just don't work for what we use them for.

Curious how they don't work for how you use them? How do you use them?

We use them to actually work. We haul stuff in them, we pull stuff in them and we need to travel more than 180 miles a day sometimes. The heat effects all of that and the cold kills them. We don't even bother putting them in Canada anymore. They are fine for getting around town and light duty pick up work but as a work truck they just don't cut it.

 

[heckmanm]

Yeah, it's kinda crazy. We won't do well financially long term with our Mach-E because of the depreciation. We actually made money on our previous two vehicles (Wranglers). They are very different vehicles but the Mach-E is vastly superior in quality, features, cost to operate, reliability, etc. but we will not do well when we sell it. The good news is we plan to keep it for a long time at this point. It's great fun to drive and has great tech. Charging for pennies or free is also great but not that big of a benefit. I figure in the 32k miles we've driven it we've probably saved $3,000 on fuel. Long term we may make out on reduced maintenance. Or not.

It's a great opportunity to buy any of the better EV's on the used market right now if you have good access to level 2 charging. Possibly even new from scared dealers. If your use case supports it.

I'm sticking with my ICE truck as a second vehicle for now, primarily for road trips until the charging infrastructure improves.

I bought a Mach-E in late '23 and plan to keep it as long as it runs. It was only my 4th car purchase since 1990.

 

[the moops]

I bought a Mach-E in late '23 and plan to keep it as long as it runs. It was only my 4th car purchase since 1990.

Just rented a Mach-E for a trip out to Yosemite. I generally use Turo when renting, but this trip flew us into San Jose, drive to Yosemite for 4 nights, then drive to Reno for 3 nights, with a flight out of Reno. Found a cheap deal on Priceline for a small SUV, but when we got to San Jose they had a Mach-E available for the same price.

Was a super enjoyable ride to have through the mountains and on the switchbacks getting into Yosemite Valley. Also, full charge got us all the way into our camp, and there was free Rivian sponsored charging at Yosemite. Had to charge on the way to Reno, but that was only 22 bucks. Brought the car back to the airport with 11% charge. Was easier, probably even cheaper to just pay the $35 charge for them to charge then it would have been to find a place and wait around.

Nice ride. I am a fan

 

[the moops]

I am an EV owner, but have generally only driven in cities and suburbs (did rent a Tesla in Phoenix one time and went out into the desert). Anyway, it was waaaaayyyy more enjoyable not having to brake driving up and down the switchbacks in and out of Yosemite Valley.

 

[massraider]

This guy says he got 400,000 miles out of a battery.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

I don't think the FFA has many GM fans, but today was the big day when the Tesla chargers became available to GM EV owners. The adapter however isn't free and kind of convoluted to order. (Link)

 

[HellToupee]

I don't think the FFA has many GM fans, but today was the big day when the Tesla chargers became available to GM EV owners. The adapter however isn't free and kind of convoluted to order. (Link)

Is GM charging a fair price or soaking current owners does the adapter?

 

[fruity pebbles]

I don't think the FFA has many GM fans, but today was the big day when the Tesla chargers became available to GM EV owners. The adapter however isn't free and kind of convoluted to order. (Link)

Is GM charging a fair price or soaking current owners does the adapter?

$225

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

I don't think the FFA has many GM fans, but today was the big day when the Tesla chargers became available to GM EV owners. The adapter however isn't free and kind of convoluted to order. (Link)

Is GM charging a fair price or soaking current owners does the adapter?

It is $225 which seems in line with Googled alternatives, but considering Ford sent their customers free ones....

 

[HellToupee]

I don't think the FFA has many GM fans, but today was the big day when the Tesla chargers became available to GM EV owners. The adapter however isn't free and kind of convoluted to order. (Link)

Is GM charging a fair price or soaking current owners does the adapter?

It is $225 which seems in line with Googled alternatives, but considering Ford sent their customers free ones....

$225 isn’t outrageous but free buys a lot of goodwill

 

[BlackCrowes]

CATL starts delivery of EV batteries with 600,000 miles warranty that can last 15 years - BatteryIndustry.tech

Contemporary Amperex Technology (CATL) – the world’s largest battery maker – is now moving its long-life electric vehicle batteries from the R&D and prototype stage to the launch phase. It just announced that it will supply an EV battery that can last 15 years and will be good to cover nearly...

batteryindustry.tech

Awesome if they deliver on it

 

[heckmanm]

I don't think the FFA has many GM fans, but today was the big day when the Tesla chargers became available to GM EV owners. The adapter however isn't free and kind of convoluted to order. (Link)

Is GM charging a fair price or soaking current owners does the adapter?

It is $225 which seems in line with Googled alternatives, but considering Ford sent their customers free ones....

Ford still hasn’t sent mine, but I agree with your point

 

[BassNBrew]

I don't think the FFA has many GM fans, but today was the big day when the Tesla chargers became available to GM EV owners. The adapter however isn't free and kind of convoluted to order. (Link)

Is GM charging a fair price or soaking current owners does the adapter?

It is $225 which seems in line with Googled alternatives, but considering Ford sent their customers free ones....

Ford still hasn’t sent mine, but I agree with your point

Still waiting on my free one from Rivain. Personally would have rather paid and had it 6 months ago.

 

[Nugget]

Tesla worked through reservation for $80K Cybertruck

Sounds like they have found the early demand levels for Cybertruck. Buyers will probably have an opportunity to buy cheaper version next fall with a RWD model and continued pricing pressure. I don't think they'll ever approach the $39,999 level that Elon stated 5 years ago, but $60K is probably in reach.

 

[culdeus]

When did he say a ct would get down to 40k?

I'm watching for some of the Benz EQs/Taycans to start rolling in off lease. The market for those used is super soft from pre owned. Off lease will be insane.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

When did he say a ct would get down to 40k?

I'm watching for some of the Benz EQs/Taycans to start rolling in off lease. The market for those used is super soft from pre owned. Off lease will be insane.

Wasn't the initial announcement when they started taking pre-orders? I think they actually sold pre-orders for it at $39,990.

The Cybertruck Is Now the Cheapest Tesla

Nobody knows for how long.

futurism.com

 

[Nugget]

When did he say a ct would get down to 40k?

I'm watching for some of the Benz EQs/Taycans to start rolling in off lease. The market for those used is super soft from pre owned. Off lease will be insane.

November 21, 2019

This is when they threw the steel ball against the shatterproof windows.