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Graduating HS Senior Wants to go to Europe with Friends (1 Viewer)

chet

chet

Footballguy
My daughter, a HS senior, wants to go to Europe over the summer with 7 other girls--all of them in her class.  Has anyone sent their kids on such a trip?  What issues did you encounter?

I'm thinking there's bound to be drama between the girls and I wouldn't be surprised for the group to splinter.  I'd be fine with a smaller group but I'd also tell her that under no circumstance is she to leave the group to be solo, with another group, with a boy etc.  Also, she will be 17 during the trip and most of the others will be 18 so she's requested permission to get a "fake".  I don't see the big deal and actually feel she'd be safer with it since she wouldn't be left alone.  Do you even need ID in Europe? 

Any other thoughts?

 
chet said:
Also, she will be 17 during the trip and most of the others will be 18 so she's requested permission to get a "fake".  
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Just a thought from a guy on a message board that doesn't know you or your daughter, but a big hell no just for this request alone. 

 
A post-college graduation trip? Sure, they've had four more years to figure out what's up in this f'd up world. But no way am I sending/paying for my recent HS grad to run around Europe with a bunch of naive girls who think they know everything (no knock on yours...they all do at this age), no matter how responsible she is. And I'm pretty liberal with giving my kids permission to do stuff. 

 
ChiefD said:
Just a thought from a guy on a message board that doesn't know you or your daughter, but a big hell no just for this request alone. 
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So you'd not let her go on the trip itself simply because she asked permission to get a fake ID?  I had one growing up and so did her mother.  Can you unpack your opinion a little?

 
Nigel said:
A post-college graduation trip? Sure, they've had four more years to figure out what's up in this f'd up world. But no way am I sending/paying for my recent HS grad to run around Europe with a bunch of naive girls who think they know everything (no knock on yours...they all do at this age), no matter how responsible she is. And I'm pretty liberal with giving my kids permission to do stuff. 
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I get this opinion and part of me agrees.  One of the girls has an older brother who did this when he graduated (I know there are male versus female issues) and I went with two friends after my college freshman year.

 
chet said:
So you'd not let her go on the trip itself simply because she asked permission to get a fake ID?  I had one growing up and so did her mother.  Can you unpack your opinion a little?
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This is illegal. So for her to ask a parent to get her a fake ID puts her parents in a real awful spot.

So I question the maturity level there. For me, there are times to be a friend to your kids and times to be a parent. Getting a kid a fake ID screams of someone wanting to be a friend to their kid instead of being a parent.

Like I said, I don't know you at all. And things are most likely different in your world.

But I'm not sending a 17 year old kid to Europe alone with friends with a FAKE ID that I got for them. Just my opinion. 

 
ChiefD said:
This is illegal. So for her to ask a parent to get her a fake ID puts her parents in a real awful spot.

So I question the maturity level there. For me, there are times to be a friend to your kids and times to be a parent. Getting a kid a fake ID screams of someone wanting to be a friend to their kid instead of being a parent.

Like I said, I don't know you at all. And things are most likely different in your world.

But I'm not sending a 17 year old kid to Europe alone with friends with a FAKE ID that I got for them. Just my opinion. 
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You misread.  She asked permission to get a fake--not for me to get her one.  I wouldn't get it for her; she'd simply get one from the same source that others in her class have used.

 
My son did it with a group of 3 other friends.  A few caveats... He's a dude, not sure I'd be as comfortable with sending a girl (sorry for the double standard, but that's the reality).  And secondly, one of the guys he went with was a seasoned traveler, so they had someone to show them the ropes.

Besides getting his phone and wallet stolen  :rolleyes: , it was a great experience

 
ChiefD said:
This is illegal. So for her to ask a parent to get her a fake ID puts her parents in a real awful spot.

So I question the maturity level there. 
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Or speaks to maturity in not wanting to lie to parents and be a trustworthy adult who the parents don't have to wonder what she may be up to behind their backs. 

To me, being open and up front about it would be a positive sign.

And basically the answer to the question is all about trust, if you do trust her, it's an incredible real life/learning experience that could be incredibly valuable for her.

 
chet said:
I get this opinion and part of me agrees.  One of the girls has an older brother who did this when he graduated (I know there are male versus female issues) and I went with two friends after my college freshman year.
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Yup, goes without saying its different for boys vs girls. And I'd even consider it after one year of college...that one year of living on your own is the biggest one year spike in real-world survival skills any of us get. 

 
Not sure I would want my kid traveling in a foreign country with fake ID that doesn't match their passport.  Would suck to be in some country that considers that infraction to be espionage and a mandatory 10 year jail sentence.  Gonna have to take it through customs regardless.

 
my kids are still young, so I don't have the experience in my pocket as a parent. 

that said- my brother and I both did around that age... as did my wife (to japan and to europe). so while everything is still abstract for me, I'm going to say yes, you should. 7 girls offers protection against 1 of them or somebody near them acting or trying to act poorly/stupidly. fantastic opportunity you'd be providing for her, IMO. and especially with smart phones, youll be able to get check-ins almost to the minute rather than an occasional call or postcard if the mood strikes her.

my response is more of a blackdot for several years from now when my kids are of this age and wanting to do cool stuff like this- hope I remember my answer now and don't freeze into terror driven paralysis.

 
chet said:
You misread.  She asked permission to get a fake--not for me to get her one.  I wouldn't get it for her; she'd simply get one from the same source that others in her class have used.
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Ah, gotcha.

Still doesn't work for me, and all I can speak to is if my own daughter asked me this. I wouldn't send her overseas with a fake ID in her possession. To me that just potentially opens up a ton of potential issues if caught with it. 

And wanting the fake ID would tell me she wants to go to Europe with her friends and drink. And the dad in me, for an 18 year old, says no. And mainly because it wouldn't necessarily be her I wouldn't trust - it's the fact that at 18 she is still young and somewhat immature. 

But you know your daughter better, and if she has the maturity to handle it, go for it. 

 
I think the trip sounds like a great experience, but I would say no to the fake ID.  I had one in college for going to the bars and am not at all against a fake ID in general, but I wouldn't bring it with me on international travel.  Even without it, she should have a great time and hopefully her friends wouldn't leave her at the door of some club because the minimum age is 18 at that place.

 
A very simple general answer from me is, no way! 

I also think it’s wrong for her to get a fake ID. What if she runs into a real stickler that wants to make an example out of the “spoiled American” kid with the fake ID and she ends up in jail? 

By the way, I’m not claiming she’s a spoiled kid but many Europeans do not care for Americans and look at us that way. 

 
I'd be really uncomfortable with this. It just seems like a risk not worth taking. I'd try and find a different option or suggest they delay the trip a couple years.

 
My initial reaction is to let her go, but I dont think this is a one-size-fits-all answer. It really depends on the kid and the friends. I agree the group seems too big to not have problems. 

The fake ID doesnt bother me all that much. Definitely a good sign that she asked you. As I understand, they're easily obtainable from China nowadays.

 
Beef Ravioli said:
A very simple general answer from me is, no way! 

I also think it’s wrong for her to get a fake ID. What if she runs into a real stickler that wants to make an example out of the “spoiled American” kid with the fake ID and she ends up in jail? 

By the way, I’m not claiming she’s a spoiled kid but many Europeans do not care for Americans and look at us that way. 
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For that exact reason, I'd have her travel on her Canadian passport.  And for the record, my daughter is spoiled but I'd wager anyone on this board who has kids spoils their children and the only question is to what degree.

 
I'd say that I'm pretty darn liberal with what I would allow/not allow my daughters to do.

At her age, with the info given, there are a ton of red flags and I would lean pretty hard on the 'no' side.

 
E-Z Glider said:
My initial reaction is to let her go, but I dont think this is a one-size-fits-all answer. It really depends on the kid and the friends. I agree the group seems too big to not have problems. 

The fake ID doesnt bother me all that much. Definitely a good sign that she asked you. As I understand, they're easily obtainable from China nowadays.
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I definitely want to have a heart to heart with her to explore her goals for the trip.  I also want to air my concerns with the other parents.  There's lots of trouble to get into with older guys at clubs who will give them all the MDMA, alcohol, etc that they want.  

 
Northern Voice said:
Or speaks to maturity in not wanting to lie to parents and be a trustworthy adult who the parents don't have to wonder what she may be up to behind their backs. 

To me, being open and up front about it would be a positive sign.

And basically the answer to the question is all about trust, if you do trust her, it's an incredible real life/learning experience that could be incredibly valuable for her.
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I go with this.  Seems young, but on the other hand, they will be off at college in a few months and will be independent there too.  I think it comes down to the girls and how many of them are responsible and well-travelled versus not. 

 
I would advise against the fake id as you never know what kind of trouble that might cause.  I doubt being 17 is going to keep her out of many bars in the countries you've listed. I would not have a problem with this generally, assuming she's got a decent level of maturity.

 
I wanna be fun dad and be okay with this, but I can’t.  Maybe when mine is that age and I’m a more seasoned parent and have a better idea of who my daughter is (she’s just 3 now) I’ll be more open to it.  With my current parenting skills/experience and my memory of not too long ago youthful aims of post-high school life, it’s not necessarily that I’m afraid she’d do something dumb, it’s that if something of any variety happened my ability to come rescue would be severely hampered by distance.  The concerns of college “experiences” is bad enough, but all of that on the other side of the world in a foreign environment?

 
I am a big no to the fake idea.  Nothing good can come from that imo.

Whether she goes or not you have to judge not only how mature she is but every other girl in her group. If there is any in the group that is going to revel in some male Euro attention and get invited to a party, you could easily run into issues that are hard to protect against.

 
i went 2 days after high school graduation for 2 months.  it was an invaluable experience.  i got robbed, slept on sidewalks, missed trains, got lost, had fun, drank too much, bought hash in amsterdam, got laid.  in other words, had the time of my life.  

i started with 2 weeks as part of a live abroad group in mallorca.  10 of us, girls and boys.  then, me and 3 dudes traveled through the south of france, italy and up to germany.  we separated into pairs at that point.  me and a buddy went to amsterdam and paris and explored some parts of burgundy.  by this time, we were ready to kill each other. my buddy bailed on me, to go meet his dad in madrid.  i went to barcelona and then back to mallorca for the last 10 days.

i plan on my daughter doing something similar when she's old enough.  

eta:  the fake id thing is a joke.  she doesn't need it.  but i like that fact that she asked you about it.  shows a nice level of combination and trust.

 
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Nigel said:
A post-college graduation trip? Sure, they've had four more years to figure out what's up in this f'd up world. But no way am I sending/paying for my recent HS grad to run around Europe with a bunch of naive girls who think they know everything (no knock on yours...they all do at this age), no matter how responsible she is. And I'm pretty liberal with giving my kids permission to do stuff. 
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“You can’t do that, I’m an AMERICAN!”

 
I’d let her go, with no fake ID. Also, I would nix Greece and probably Italy due to the migrant issues. A group of Barbies strolling past a migrant camp at night may not be the best idea.

Holland is amazing, was there this summer and it seems super safe but beware of pickpockets.

 
Northern Voice said:
Or speaks to maturity in not wanting to lie to parents and be a trustworthy adult who the parents don't have to wonder what she may be up to behind their backs. 

To me, being open and up front about it would be a positive sign.

And basically the answer to the question is all about trust, if you do trust her, it's an incredible real life/learning experience that could be incredibly valuable for her.
Click to expand...
Or all the other things over which she has little or no control. :oldunsure:

 
chet said:
I definitely want to have a heart to heart with her to explore her goals for the trip.  I also want to air my concerns with the other parents.  There's lots of trouble to get into with older guys at clubs who will give them all the MDMA, alcohol, etc that they want.  
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Invite her friends and their parents over and all watch Hostel together.  That ought to get the dialogue started...

 
DA RAIDERS said:
PSA:  all of our daughters are going to bone dudes.  just a heads up.
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I have a daughter that graduated this past spring and I'd feel much more comfortable with a trip like this if there were some dudes in the group going along. 

 
If you let her go she's bringing the fake ID approved or not. At least I would have at 17. I asked. You said no. I brought one just in case. You have to at least know this going in. 

 
glock said:
Northern Voice said:
Or speaks to maturity in not wanting to lie to parents and be a trustworthy adult who the parents don't have to wonder what she may be up to behind their backs. 

To me, being open and up front about it would be a positive sign.

And basically the answer to the question is all about trust, if you do trust her, it's an incredible real life/learning experience that could be incredibly valuable for her.
Click to expand...
Or all the other things over which she has little or no control. :oldunsure:
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She has control over what situations she puts herself in and how she reacts, so if you trust her ability to manage that... 

I'm also not a "the world is a scary place" guy. I've traveled a ton starting at a similar young age and haven't been in many situations where I haven't felt I've been in control.

 
Is she paying for her own trip? If so... no.
Are you expected to pay for the trip? If so... HELL NO.

She's just gonna get drunk, high and pregnant anyway. She can do it in the U.S. for a lot cheaper.

 
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