How do you feel about Orton now? (1 Viewer)

[fatness]

Jason, I hear what you are saying but fnd me a game where Garrard is the difference? It's great you can get him later, it's nice his year end numbers are top12...but much like I argued against Clinton Portis 2 seasons ago that while he was top10 his impact was minimal many weeks and he didn't live up to his 1st round selection, many in here fought me tooth and nail.

While I agree with you about Orton being overranked, bringing up your old Portis argument doesn't buttress your Orton argument. You were dead wrong about Portis.

 

[Mr. Retukes]

Cutler threw at least 3 or 4 passes tonight that should have been easy interceptions. I guess he sucks too. Bears should probably cut him outright.

I just looked through my Official Footballguys Rankings™ and I couldn't find the stat category for "Should Have Been Intercepted". Could you provide a link for me? TIA.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

Cutler threw at least 3 or 4 passes tonight that should have been easy interceptions. I guess he sucks too. Bears should probably cut him outright.

I just looked through my Official Footballguys Rankings™ and I couldn't find the stat category for "Should Have Been Intercepted". Could you provide a link for me? TIA.

point is lots of people are overreacting to some preseason games. Expecting a QB on a new team, with new WRs, in a new offense to perform great right out of the gate is not that realistic. Many take some time to get comfortable. I'm not one to say that Orton is anything special, but I think he can be effective in the right situation...and I think the Broncos situation looks pretty great. Good line, good weapons, 1st round RB talent added. If he can't beat out Simms and hold onto this job, I'll be surprised. But, I understand the concern. I expect he'll do better going forward...and I think Cutler will do great.

 

[bostonfred]

You guys forget that McDaniels comes from the Belichick coaching tree. They've probably practiced all of the scenarios for an Orton led offense and had the wide receivers working on tackling. They'll be well prepared for this season.

 

[TommyGilmore]

Orton actually looked very good on the first drive. If you watched every play up to the interception you'd think that Denver made the right decision to trade Cutler.

 

[moleculo]

Orton actually looked very good on the first drive. If you watched every play up to the interception you'd think that Denver made the right decision to trade Cutler.

a detailed breakdown of Ortons game.in summary:

Overall Impressions, and Where do We Go from Here?

First off, I would certainly qualify this as a bad game, and outside of his pre-snap reads and drop-back mechanics, he has many, many things to work on.

Right now, Orton's strengths appear to be his conceptual grasp of the offense, but not his instinctual grasp of it (as is to be expected). He tends to know where and why, but in the heat of battle he loses track of the little things, like stepping into his throws, or moving up in the pocket for an extra second.

He also looks very good standing tall in the pocket. If he was rattled or shellshocked, or just plain scared, it didn't show. His mistakes were rooted in fundamental errors, common for someone thinking too hard and not doing the small things instinctually. There were even times when I would have liked to see him scramble a bit, just to see what he could generate in that area, but he appeared to be either under orders, or very cognizant of sticking with his pocket and making the most of it. This is probably the best strategy, since it is unlikely he will be let down very often by this pocket. Throwing on the move doesn't seem to be a problem, but with such a small sample size, we'll hold out on judgment there.

In general his release looks good, it is quick, without unnecessary action, and he delivers a nice, catchable ball. When he isn't betrayed by footwork and positioning in the pocket, he makes all of his throws.

Where we really need to see improvement is in moving around in the pocket. He isn't moving instinctually AT ALL in there, and his play-action 'fakes' are real groaners. There were only two run, back to back (technically, there was plenty of time in between them), and neither seemed to be sold all that well. In fact, the first one brought up one defensive player IN A GOAL LINE situation. They guessed we were going to pass, and the play action didn't throw them off at all.

It would also be nice to see him setting up more consistently. Early on, even on good overall throws, his forward foot wasn't ideally placed, and it took something off of his throws. A player who has spent enough time backing up in the pocket will develop those kinds of tendencies, and it remains to be seen how quickly he un-learns that, because it is affecting his velocity and accuracy on a regular basis.

On the topic of accuracy, I like what I see (when I see it), especially his ability to put just the right amount of touch on his throws; but this was a relatively small sampling for that.

This game really featured heavily for routes run on and to the right side. Out of 17 throws, only 4 ever wandered to the left (Dre' Bly covers the right side...maybe he is some kind of strange magnet?), and only five ever went more than 5 yards through the air. There was only a single deep throw, so that isn't a sampling one can hang their hat on, for good or bad, but given that everything went wrong mechanically on that throw, I feel safe saying the jury is still out on this Bronco's deep ball. Despite throwing to the right so often, he found five different receivers there, and the only disappointment I really had in the receiver department was that he never was able to establish a connection with Stokley. Factor in the lack of strong impressions left by Stokley in camp, and you have to wonder how much more time they will need in order to get on the same page, and just what the problem is here....

I hope this establishes a good baseline to work from, in order to gauge and measure Orton's progress as we work through not only the preseason, but into the regular season as well. For an offense that requires a Master's in footballosophy to run well, Orton's first test seems to show that he at least deserves to keep coming to class. I've seen enough 'borderline' talents to know that Orton is certainly not in that group. All the tools are there, and with experience and consistency, I look forward to watching this QB's growth.

 

[mbuehner]

Here's a clip of game highlights.

Orton is showing uncharacteristically bad mechanics. Look at the way he sort of bounces on the balls of his feet before he throws- he isn't stepping into his throws on any of the 3 ints. Orton is a better QB than that, he looked over excited.

BUT- the last one (at 2:14 on the tape) is a perfect display of Orton's biggest shortcomings. He had traffic around him in the pocket and his stepping lane was blocked. He threw a deep ball flat footed and it got picked badly on a very short lolipop. That particular shortcoming is what makes him no better than mediocre unless he has ridiculous protection (which you could say the same for every QB in the league).

For a more mobile QB this wouldn't be such a big deal- if you can slide around the pocket and find a little space you can step into the throw get the ball down the field on a line (or at least buy a little time for your receivers to come back to you). But Orton doesn't have the feet to do that- if his pocket collapses on him he doesn't have the literal arm strength to get the ball down the field. You can condemn Orton to the dink and dunk (which he is very good at granted) by simply pushing back the pocket in front of him. He isn't going anywhere, so forget about sacking him and just occupy the space he needs to get the ball out deep. That takes away the critical component if you want a high powered offense of any kind. Broncos can still win this way, but they aren't going to outscore many teams.

 

[flapgreen]

Cutler threw at least 3 or 4 passes tonight that should have been easy interceptions. I guess he sucks too. Bears should probably cut him outright.

 

[flapgreen]

Nice opposite hand pass the other night, Orton. Awesome to see him on another team.

 

[switz]

Nice opposite hand pass the other night, Orton. Awesome to see him on another team.

It was 4th and goal... if he had scored the TD, everyone would have been saying how Favre-esque he was. I'm pretty sure he was aware of the down and distance, and was trying to make a play. The smarter thing to do would have been to let himself get tackled since they would have had to start at the 2, but obviously he wanted to make a play, like any good QB. And if he'd let himself get tackled you'd be on here saying he wasn't a fighter or a winner, or something else nonsensical.That was his only bad play of the night, on 4th and goal, no matter what if they dind't score a TD< the other team gets the ball. It's a pretty silly thing to jump on him about.

 

[flapgreen]

Nice opposite hand pass the other night, Orton. Awesome to see him on another team.

It was 4th and goal... if he had scored the TD, everyone would have been saying how Favre-esque he was. I'm pretty sure he was aware of the down and distance, and was trying to make a play. The smarter thing to do would have been to let himself get tackled since they would have had to start at the 2, but obviously he wanted to make a play, like any good QB. And if he'd let himself get tackled you'd be on here saying he wasn't a fighter or a winner, or something else nonsensical.That was his only bad play of the night, on 4th and goal, no matter what if they dind't score a TD< the other team gets the ball. It's a pretty silly thing to jump on him about.

 

[Chunky Soup]

Nice opposite hand pass the other night, Orton. Awesome to see him on another team.

It was 4th and goal... if he had scored the TD, everyone would have been saying how Favre-esque he was. I'm pretty sure he was aware of the down and distance, and was trying to make a play. The smarter thing to do would have been to let himself get tackled since they would have had to start at the 2, but obviously he wanted to make a play, like any good QB. And if he'd let himself get tackled you'd be on here saying he wasn't a fighter or a winner, or something else nonsensical.That was his only bad play of the night, on 4th and goal, no matter what if they dind't score a TD< the other team gets the ball. It's a pretty silly thing to jump on him about.

You're really defending that play? Awesome.

 

[Yitbos69]

Nice opposite hand pass the other night, Orton. Awesome to see him on another team.

It was 4th and goal... if he had scored the TD, everyone would have been saying how Favre-esque he was. I'm pretty sure he was aware of the down and distance, and was trying to make a play. The smarter thing to do would have been to let himself get tackled since they would have had to start at the 2, but obviously he wanted to make a play, like any good QB. And if he'd let himself get tackled you'd be on here saying he wasn't a fighter or a winner, or something else nonsensical.That was his only bad play of the night, on 4th and goal, no matter what if they dind't score a TD< the other team gets the ball. It's a pretty silly thing to jump on him about.

You're really defending that play? Awesome.

I agree with switz on this one....Orton knew it was 4th and goal and knew they were going to turn the ball over on downs so he tried to make a play......they got +19 yards on the deal...but I like that he tried to make the play...but he looked pretty good in there this outing and he should keep getting better

 

[chidoy]

I think i'm gonna actually agree with Switz on this one too.........

If it worked, he woulda been a "playmaker... blah blah blah"

IMHO, Orton and the offense looked pretty darn good on that drive.... granted, it was short, dump-off type passes all the way down, but the fact is, they drove the ball methodically. Orton/Royal looked like Brady/Wes... (well... you know what i mean) on that drive.

 

[Buffaloes]

Nice opposite hand pass the other night, Orton. Awesome to see him on another team.

It was 4th and goal... if he had scored the TD, everyone would have been saying how Favre-esque he was. I'm pretty sure he was aware of the down and distance, and was trying to make a play. The smarter thing to do would have been to let himself get tackled since they would have had to start at the 2, but obviously he wanted to make a play, like any good QB. And if he'd let himself get tackled you'd be on here saying he wasn't a fighter or a winner, or something else nonsensical.That was his only bad play of the night, on 4th and goal, no matter what if they dind't score a TD< the other team gets the ball. It's a pretty silly thing to jump on him about.

You're really defending that play? Awesome.

I'm pretty sure Orton mentioned after the game that it was 4th and goal and that was the reason he didn't take the sack. It was still funny but it makes a little more sense knowing it was 4th down. Too bad Gaffney dropped an easy TD in the back of the end zone the play before.

 

[TommyGilmore]

I'm pretty sure Orton mentioned after the game that it was 4th and goal and that was the reason he didn't take the sack. It was still funny but it makes a little more sense knowing it was 4th down.

What difference does 4th down make? It was still a smarter, more sensible play to take the sack. By throwing up a jump ball he risked losing 19 yards of field position (which was exactly what happend). I wonder if the Bronco fanboys would still be defending Orton if the interception was returned for a touchdown (and Denver lost by 6 points)?

 

[Ghost Rider]

Throwing an INT with your non-throwing hand is a boneheaded play, and shows that that player isn't good at making good decisions under duress and intense pressure. You would never see Tom Brady or Drew Brees do something like that. I guess that's why he's Kyle Orton.

 

[Buffaloes]

I'm pretty sure Orton mentioned after the game that it was 4th and goal and that was the reason he didn't take the sack. It was still funny but it makes a little more sense knowing it was 4th down.

What difference does 4th down make? It was still a smarter, more sensible play to take the sack. By throwing up a jump ball he risked losing 19 yards of field position (which was exactly what happend). I wonder if the Bronco fanboys would still be defending Orton if the interception was returned for a touchdown (and Denver lost by 6 points)?

Tommy, obviously it wasn't a smart decision. All I said is it makes more sense given it was 4th down and he was trying to make a play out of it. Had it been a regular season game, it would be a bigger deal.

 

[switz]

Throwing an INT with your non-throwing hand is a boneheaded play, and shows that that player isn't good at making good decisions under duress and intense pressure. You would never see Tom Brady or Drew Brees do something like that. I guess that's why he's Kyle Orton.

Throwing a TD with your non-throwing had is what? Again, Favre has done it, and been praised. Why? Not because it was smart, but because it worked. I highly doubt Orton would have done this is a regular season game.

 

[switz]

Nice opposite hand pass the other night, Orton. Awesome to see him on another team.

It was 4th and goal... if he had scored the TD, everyone would have been saying how Favre-esque he was. I'm pretty sure he was aware of the down and distance, and was trying to make a play. The smarter thing to do would have been to let himself get tackled since they would have had to start at the 2, but obviously he wanted to make a play, like any good QB. And if he'd let himself get tackled you'd be on here saying he wasn't a fighter or a winner, or something else nonsensical.That was his only bad play of the night, on 4th and goal, no matter what if they dind't score a TD< the other team gets the ball. It's a pretty silly thing to jump on him about.

You're really defending that play? Awesome.

I'm pretty sure Orton mentioned after the game that it was 4th and goal and that was the reason he didn't take the sack. It was still funny but it makes a little more sense knowing it was 4th down. Too bad Gaffney dropped an easy TD in the back of the end zone the play before.

Exactly, no one is here talking about how the announcers even said Orton put it in the perfect spot. It just shows that some people are going to look at players only looking for faults, instead of a balanced view.

 

[DoubleG]

Throwing an INT with your non-throwing hand is a boneheaded play, and shows that that player isn't good at making good decisions under duress and intense pressure. You would never see Tom Brady or Drew Brees do something like that. I guess that's why he's Kyle Orton.

Throwing a TD with your non-throwing had is what? Again, Favre has done it, and been praised. Why? Not because it was smart, but because it worked. I highly doubt Orton would have done this is a regular season game.

Please stop using the words "Favre" and "Orton" in the same comparative sense. One is a first ballot HOF QB, the other is not even close. Your constant use of the example simply makes it more ludicrous. Orton is not Favre-like, nor should he attempt to be. If we learned anything from this game, it was that McD is going to force-feed Orton the starting job. What other starting QB had 26 pass attempts in the 2nd preseason game? Will Orton start over Simms? Probably. Will McD eventually lose his job, muttering (in a very Lovie-esque fasion), "Kyle is our quarterback."? Probably. Kyle Orton is a barely serviceable starting NFL QB - anyone thinking he is otherwise is either not paying attention or simply needs him to be, lest he lose his job for making a gawd-awful trade.

 

[switz]

Throwing an INT with your non-throwing hand is a boneheaded play, and shows that that player isn't good at making good decisions under duress and intense pressure. You would never see Tom Brady or Drew Brees do something like that. I guess that's why he's Kyle Orton.

Throwing a TD with your non-throwing had is what? Again, Favre has done it, and been praised. Why? Not because it was smart, but because it worked. I highly doubt Orton would have done this is a regular season game.

Please stop using the words "Favre" and "Orton" in the same comparative sense. One is a first ballot HOF QB, the other is not even close. Your constant use of the example simply makes it more ludicrous. Orton is not Favre-like, nor should he attempt to be.

A play is a play, no matter who makes it.. if a play is stupid, it's a stupid play no matter who makes it, if a play is great, it's a great play no matter who makes it. Period.When one player makes a play just like another player, it's logical (not ludicrous) to use the comparison.

 

[Chunky Soup]

Throwing an INT with your non-throwing hand is a boneheaded play, and shows that that player isn't good at making good decisions under duress and intense pressure. You would never see Tom Brady or Drew Brees do something like that. I guess that's why he's Kyle Orton.

Throwing a TD with your non-throwing had is what? Again, Favre has done it, and been praised. Why? Not because it was smart, but because it worked. I highly doubt Orton would have done this is a regular season game.

Please stop using the words "Favre" and "Orton" in the same comparative sense. One is a first ballot HOF QB, the other is not even close. Your constant use of the example simply makes it more ludicrous. Orton is not Favre-like, nor should he attempt to be.

A play is a play, no matter who makes it.. if a play is stupid, it's a stupid play no matter who makes it, if a play is great, it's a great play no matter who makes it. Period.When one player makes a play just like another player, it's logical (not ludicrous) to use the comparison.

First off, you are speaking for a lot of people here. And incorrectly at that. I think Favre's play was pretty silly, and feel similarly about Orton's play (although IMO the latter one was more boneheaded due to second point below). I'm not really looking completely at the end result -- it's a low chance play with a lot of risk. That risk bit Orton and made Favre look good (although still was more justified for Favre as explained below). Why do you think you're the only person to realize this?Secondly, "a play is a play no matter who makes it" is not true at all. You need to know your skillset to understand if you can make such a play. I don't see Shaquille O'Neal shooting three pointers when the game is on the line but I've seen Lebron do that. It was a boneheaded play for Favre, but clearly he had the skillset to make it work (and if you watch both, Favres has a much higher chance of working).

 

[Statcruncher]

All the Orton hammering in here is pretty amazing. I don't understand why the guy has become so polarizing. First off I was OK with Orton as the Bear's starter last year (I'm thrilled the Bears have Cutler, IMO he has the skills to be a perennial top 5 QB) and before he was injured he played better than I expected. IMO he still has some growing to do but his ceiling is probably a solid NFL caliber QB. He will seldom win a game on his own, but there are few QB's in the league that can. I hate to use the phrase "game manager", but it fits.

As for the left handed interception I absolutely stand behind him on that. Obviously on 4th and goal your options are limited. Throw the ball away, try for the TD, or take a sack. Two of those options result in zero points and the other team gets the ball, one of those options results in the possibility of putting points on the board. Complaining about giving the opponent the ball on the 2 yard line instead of the 20 yard line is somewhat valid, but I'd rather have my QB trying to win the game rather than not lose it. I don't want my QB thinking "if I lay down I give my defense 93 yards instead of 80 yards to stop the opponent's offense".

Yes, it could have been intercepted and run back for a TD. It also could have been tipped and caught for a TD, there could have been defensive pass interference called, etc. Any number of things could have happened and the starting QB took the only option that gave them the possibility of scoring. There needs to be more of that in the league.

The one knock I do have on Orton is that he appears to be at his best in the "dink and dunk". We all know that may work well for a game or two but once opponents have tape and can take away that dimension you had better have something else or you're in for a long season.

I wish Orton all the luck in the world, he's a gutsy baller who does what's best for the team and I never thought he gave anything but his best on the field. I just don't think he has the skills to be an elite QB. He came into a bad situation in Chicago and survived his baptism by fire. I hope he has a long career as a solid if not slightly above average starting QB in this league.

 

[Zigg]

I think when Marshall starts playing, Orton is going to throw for a ton of yards, and enough TDs to make him a borderline fantasy starter. Ranked in the 12/14 range.

 

[chidoy]

I agree..... like i stated earlier.... Orton really had a good drive going before the "boneheaded" INT. I think once or if BMarsh gets in, that Orton is a borderline starter as well.

 

[mbuehner]

Throwing a TD with your non-throwing had is what? Again, Favre has done it, and been praised.

Because he completed it. That's not snark, that's reality. If you're going to do something stupid you better make it work.But on the stupid meter this play doesn't really rank. 4th and goal, anything goes. I don't have a problem with Orton giving it a go. All that play indicates to you about Orton is that if he can't make a throw in the pocket, chances are the play is dead. But we already knew that.

 

[lionsroar]

I watched the replay of the game and I think he made some great throws. If your in a league that doesn't discount interceptions He easily finishes top 15 this year. I see him out producing at least 6 qb's that are going in front of him.

 

[Rushmore]

Throwing an INT with your non-throwing hand is a boneheaded play, and shows that that player isn't good at making good decisions under duress and intense pressure. You would never see Tom Brady or Drew Brees do something like that. I guess that's why he's Kyle Orton.

Yikes, that reminds me of the Gus Ferrotte experience in Cincinnati

 

[grateful zed]

im with switz.

 

[DoubleG]

im with switz.

I was beginning to wonder if switz had an alias.

 

[flapgreen]

Throwing an INT with your non-throwing hand is a boneheaded play, and shows that that player isn't good at making good decisions under duress and intense pressure. You would never see Tom Brady or Drew Brees do something like that. I guess that's why he's Kyle Orton.

They don't get it and think the only thing you are doing is bashing Orton whenever he does something wrong, which is all of the damn time. There will many Orton apologists,mainly the ones who have been on his balls for the past couple of seasons. Kind of like the supporters Benson has up until the bottom fell out. Interestingly, you here another peep out of them.

 

[switz]

Throwing an INT with your non-throwing hand is a boneheaded play, and shows that that player isn't good at making good decisions under duress and intense pressure. You would never see Tom Brady or Drew Brees do something like that. I guess that's why he's Kyle Orton.

They don't get it and think the only thing you are doing is bashing Orton whenever he does something wrong, which is all of the damn time. There will many Orton apologists, mainly the ones who have been on his balls for the past couple of seasons. Kind of like the supporters Benson has up until the bottom fell out. Interestingly, you here another peep out of them.

Nice, classy... This post has told me all I need to know about you.

 

[flapgreen]

yes. god forbid i use the word balls in a sentence and then get called out for not being classy. keep defending orton until the end. guy has shown what he is made of over the course of a few years. excuses mean little at this point

 

[switz]

For all those who love Chris Simms:

Per rotoworld:

Broncos backup QB Chris Simms could reportedly miss up to a month with his high ankle sprain.

Rookie Tom Brandstater and likely signee Ingle Martin will see plenty of time in the final preseason game. The Broncos could be left without a legit backup to Kyle Orton for the first couple of regular season games. Aug. 26 - 11:17 am et

 

[Chunky Soup]

Per rotoworld: The Broncos could be left without a legit backup to Kyle Orton for the first couple of regular season games. Aug. 26 - 11:17 am et

Scary thought for Bronco fans.

 

[switz]

Per rotoworld: The Broncos could be left without a legit backup to Kyle Orton for the first couple of regular season games. Aug. 26 - 11:17 am et

Scary thought for Bronco fans.

In view of this thread, it could say "The Broncos could be left without a legit quarterback" and people would agree. I wouldn't, but some people would.

 

[Knobs]

One could argue they were already without a legit backup.

ETA damn, switz beat me to the joke.

 

[flapgreen]

Come on, Kyle. I know you made a booboo on your finger, but you didn't have to break down into tears on the bench.

 

[Ozymandias]

Come on, Kyle. I know you made a booboo on your finger, but you didn't have to break down into tears on the bench.

Maybe nobody kissed it to make it better.

 

[flapgreen]

Come on, Kyle. I know you made a booboo on your finger, but you didn't have to break down into tears on the bench.

Maybe nobody kissed it to make it better.

very valid point

 

[Mr. Retukes]

Paging Kevin O'Connell?

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

Paging Kevin O'Connell?

definitely seems like an obvious target for the Broncos. he might wind up seeing playing time there too given the lack of depth and his familiarity with the system.

 

[The Jacket]

Come on, Kyle. I know you made a booboo on your finger, but you didn't have to break down into tears on the bench.

:X

 

[moleculo]

Oddly, through two games, Orton has yet to throw a pick.

Weird.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

Oddly, through two games, Orton has yet to throw a pick.Weird.

is that really weird?he threw 0 INTs in 9 of 16 games for the Bears last year.what set him apart from Grossman was that he normally did a good job of protecting the football.

 

[moleculo]

Oddly, through two games, Orton has yet to throw a pick.

Weird.

is that really weird?he threw 0 INTs in 9 of 16 games for the Bears last year.

what set him apart from Grossman was that he normally did a good job of protecting the football.

It's weird to someone who has read almost nothing positive about the Denver QB situation since April. Based on the pre-season performance, I'm sure many were assuming Orton would have 4 int's by now.it's also weird seeing a Den QB take care of the ball. We haven't seen that since the no mistake Jake days, back in '05.

 

[flapgreen]

It's funny how the Orton and Benson lovers step up with the "I told you so",when they have good games. But then when they suck, which is most of the time, they are nowhere to found. Same old story.

If I've said it once, I'll say it again. Benson and Orton both suck, whether they've had a handful of good games or not. It's out there for everyone to see

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

It's funny how the Orton and Benson lovers step up with the "I told you so",when they have good games. But then when they suck, which is most of the time, they are nowhere to found. Same old story. If I've said it once, I'll say it again. Benson and Orton both suck, whether they've had a handful of good games or not. It's out there for everyone to see

well, he can still suck and be a better NFL QB than Chris Simms.opportunity is often just as important as talent in determining NFL success and Orton certainly appears to be in a pretty good situation right now.

 

[flapgreen]

It's funny how the Orton and Benson lovers step up with the "I told you so",when they have good games. But then when they suck, which is most of the time, they are nowhere to found. Same old story.

If I've said it once, I'll say it again. Benson and Orton both suck, whether they've had a handful of good games or not. It's out there for everyone to see

well, he can still suck and be a better NFL QB than Chris Simms.opportunity is often just as important as talent in determining NFL success and Orton certainly appears to be in a pretty good situation right now.

most definitelyETA: you do have a good point, though