How do you see the T.Y. Hilton/DHB Split working out? (1 Viewer)

[Tau837]

I think Green Bay's use of Cobb is the perfect comparison to how Indy will use Hilton.

Based on what?

Cobb ran ~85% of his routes last season from the slot. Hilton ran ~43% of his routes from the slot. Now, reports are that Wayne will man the slot in 3 WR sets for the Colts, and Hilton will play outside. Hilton has only run 2 routes from the slot in preseason games to date.

Furthermore, the Colts are supposedly switching to a 2 TE base offense, meaning they will run a lot fewer snaps in 3 WR sets this year.

Do you think in spite of these things that Hilton will run a high percentage of his routes from the slot?

 

[We Tigers]

It baffles me how, even if DHB is the #2 WR, you think Hilton will produce much worse this year (even if he stays as the #3).

Did this actually happen? Taking a quick look through, I saw one guy projecting Hilton for slightly lower numbers than last year (presumably because he thinks DHB is better than Avery, and the offense might slow down a tick from its legendary pace), a whole bunch of people saying that yes, Hilton would be better, but maybe not so much better that he's worth where he's being drafted, and a handful of people who think he's a top five overall WR.The discussion, thus, doesn't really seem to be DHB versus Hilton. It's how DHB's presence and role effect Hilton, and thus Hilton versus the WR's who are getting drafted around him. Like the guy below said, it's more Hilton vs. Austin (either one), Boldin, Jennings, Stevie J, etc. Because that's whose production you're passing on if you take Hilton instead. And if you're confident he'll be a top 10 overall type receiver, presumably you're not risking having him fall to you at his ADP, so it's Hilton versus Desean, Garcon, Steve Smith, etc. for you guys.

In either scenario, you're not passing on DHB to take Hilton -- you can just take him for free.

I was responding to the guy projecting DHB with more TDs and yards than Hilton. Hence the "worse than DHB" part. If you take this one line, sure it sounds different. But I started the post talking about the DHB comparison someone made and the line immediately after the one you quoted continues the DHB comparison.I've never said Hilton is a steal where he's being drafted. I think he's going too high, honestly. But I think there's a decent shot he outperforms where he's being picked. Just not enough to draft him over the likes of Austin, etc.

Perhaps my drafts so far have been atypical, but in the league where I got Hilton, Austin went 5 receivers and a full round ahead of him. Similarly, Austin went for a little more than Hilton in the auction I finished last night. Maybe my friends just don't follow MFL/FFC.

 

[Man of Zen]

It baffles me how, even if DHB is the #2 WR, you think Hilton will produce much worse this year (even if he stays as the #3).

Did this actually happen? Taking a quick look through, I saw one guy projecting Hilton for slightly lower numbers than last year (presumably because he thinks DHB is better than Avery, and the offense might slow down a tick from its legendary pace), a whole bunch of people saying that yes, Hilton would be better, but maybe not so much better that he's worth where he's being drafted, and a handful of people who think he's a top five overall WR.The discussion, thus, doesn't really seem to be DHB versus Hilton. It's how DHB's presence and role effect Hilton, and thus Hilton versus the WR's who are getting drafted around him. Like the guy below said, it's more Hilton vs. Austin (either one), Boldin, Jennings, Stevie J, etc. Because that's whose production you're passing on if you take Hilton instead. And if you're confident he'll be a top 10 overall type receiver, presumably you're not risking having him fall to you at his ADP, so it's Hilton versus Desean, Garcon, Steve Smith, etc. for you guys.

In either scenario, you're not passing on DHB to take Hilton -- you can just take him for free.

I was responding to the guy projecting DHB with more TDs and yards than Hilton. Hence the "worse than DHB" part. If you take this one line, sure it sounds different. But I started the post talking about the DHB comparison someone made and the line immediately after the one you quoted continues the DHB comparison.I've never said Hilton is a steal where he's being drafted. I think he's going too high, honestly. But I think there's a decent shot he outperforms where he's being picked. Just not enough to draft him over the likes of Austin, etc.

Perhaps my drafts so far have been atypical, but in the league where I got Hilton, Austin went 5 receivers and a full round ahead of him. Similarly, Austin went for a little more than Hilton in the auction I finished last night. Maybe my friends just don't follow MFL/FFC.

Averages are averages. I'm just referencing them because odds say they are the numbers that will most likely be relevant to the largest number of drafters.

In any individual draft, if a bargain hits, by all means enjoy it!

 

[Hoss Style]

It baffles me how, even if DHB is the #2 WR, you think Hilton will produce much worse this year (even if he stays as the #3).

Did this actually happen? Taking a quick look through, I saw one guy projecting Hilton for slightly lower numbers than last year (presumably because he thinks DHB is better than Avery, and the offense might slow down a tick from its legendary pace), a whole bunch of people saying that yes, Hilton would be better, but maybe not so much better that he's worth where he's being drafted, and a handful of people who think he's a top five overall WR.The discussion, thus, doesn't really seem to be DHB versus Hilton. It's how DHB's presence and role effect Hilton, and thus Hilton versus the WR's who are getting drafted around him. Like the guy below said, it's more Hilton vs. Austin (either one), Boldin, Jennings, Stevie J, etc. Because that's whose production you're passing on if you take Hilton instead. And if you're confident he'll be a top 10 overall type receiver, presumably you're not risking having him fall to you at his ADP, so it's Hilton versus Desean, Garcon, Steve Smith, etc. for you guys.

In either scenario, you're not passing on DHB to take Hilton -- you can just take him for free.

I was responding to the guy projecting DHB with more TDs and yards than Hilton. Hence the "worse than DHB" part. If you take this one line, sure it sounds different. But I started the post talking about the DHB comparison someone made and the line immediately after the one you quoted continues the DHB comparison.I've never said Hilton is a steal where he's being drafted. I think he's going too high, honestly. But I think there's a decent shot he outperforms where he's being picked. Just not enough to draft him over the likes of Austin, etc.

Perhaps my drafts so far have been atypical, but in the league where I got Hilton, Austin went 5 receivers and a full round ahead of him. Similarly, Austin went for a little more than Hilton in the auction I finished last night. Maybe my friends just don't follow MFL/FFC.

Interestingly enough, this is what I've seen too. Austin's always ahead of Hilton.

If I had to choose, honestly I'd grab Austin before him, as well.

Where's Hilton been going in everyone's drafts? I'm curious to know if the ADP's are changing.

 

[JuniorNB]

I think Green Bay's use of Cobb is the perfect comparison to how Indy will use Hilton.

Based on what?

Cobb ran ~85% of his routes last season from the slot. Hilton ran ~43% of his routes from the slot. Now, reports are that Wayne will man the slot in 3 WR sets for the Colts, and Hilton will play outside. Hilton has only run 2 routes from the slot in preseason games to date.

Furthermore, the Colts are supposedly switching to a 2 TE base offense, meaning they will run a lot fewer snaps in 3 WR sets this year.

Do you think in spite of these things that Hilton will run a high percentage of his routes from the slot?

I had not heard the news that they were moving Wayne to the slot and Hilton outside. I guess Cobb no longer is a good comparison. At least, position-wise. I still think he's a good comparison in that Green Bay found out what a weapon Cobb was and then did their best to get the ball in his hands. Well, Indy obviously saw that too, both last season and already this year, and will do the same. It'll be interesting to see how they do it.

 

[We Tigers]

Part of it may be that his ADP doesn't really reflect his ranking at a lot of the major host sites like Yahoo and ESPN. He's in that spot in the middle of the draft where people can start to go a little on tilt if drafting for need, and just take the next guy on the draft app or homepage's receiver list.

 

[jurb26]

Or it could be that DHB's been in the league for a while, we've gotten to see him and many of us think he is who he is. And Hilton is a rookie who you are projecting to do no better than last year in his second year - ignoring tha fact that he outproduced that #1 WR in the last half of the season and should improve his next year. I've consistantly said he might be going too high. I also think he's shown a lot and could explode this year. Why this bothers you is beyond me. Almost every expert is saying Hilton is superior to DHB,

So who do you think DHB is? You claimed he hasn't been able to perform well for years. That's not true he's, performed well the last 2 years. In 2011 he performed extremely well as a matter of fact. There is the rub for me. DHB has shown to be a vastly different player from his rookie season to now. As pointed out earlier his drop rate has gone from 36% to single digits. His route running has improved by leaps and bounds. His effectiveness getting off the line has dramatically improved. You seem intent on ignoring these things by just claiming you know who he is. If you know who he is then you should know he's grown mightily. Who are all of these "experts" you speak of? They don't seem to be the ones in Indy and they are the only ones that matter in this case.

For the last time, it doesn't bother me if Hilton has a better season than I expect. I welcome it as a Luck owner. He'll, I'd welcome him having a season that bests the ridiculous projects the one guy listed.

 

[Hoss Style]

Jesus, just looked at some ADP's on CBS. I think Hilton and Austin are both criminally low. But especially Austin. He was bracketed by Gregg Jennings and Kenny Britt.

 

[Hoss Style]

Or it could be that DHB's been in the league for a while, we've gotten to see him and many of us think he is who he is. And Hilton is a rookie who you are projecting to do no better than last year in his second year - ignoring tha fact that he outproduced that #1 WR in the last half of the season and should improve his next year. I've consistantly said he might be going too high. I also think he's shown a lot and could explode this year. Why this bothers you is beyond me. Almost every expert is saying Hilton is superior to DHB,

So who do you think DHB is? You claimed he hasn't been able to perform well for years. That's not true he's, performed well the last 2 years. In 2011 he performed extremely well as a matter of fact. There is the rub for me. DHB has shown to be a vastly different player from his rookie season to now. As pointed out earlier his drop rate has gone from 36% to single digits. His route running has improved by leaps and bounds. His effectiveness getting off the line has dramatically improved. You seem intent on ignoring these things by just claiming you know who he is. If you know who he is then you should know he's grown mightily. Who are all of these "experts" you speak of? They don't seem to be the ones in Indy and they are the only ones that matter in this case.

For the last time, it doesn't bother me if Hilton has a better season than I expect. I welcome it as a Luck owner. He'll, I'd welcome him having a season that bests the ridiculous projects the one guy listed.

I'm not saying DHB's bad. I think he's OK. I simply think Hilton's better. Especially for his first year in the league.

That's what I'm trying to say - I'm not bashing DHB. I'm high on Hilton.

I also wish the season started tomorrow so I could know how this is going to work out. Either of us could be right. Can't wait!

 

[JuniorNB]

Jesus, just looked at some ADP's on CBS. I think Hilton and Austin are both criminally low. But especially Austin. He was bracketed by Gregg Jennings and Kenny Britt.

Hilton went in the 7th round of my ten teamer. Austin went in the 8th.

 

[Hoss Style]

Btw, jurb - Just to show I'm open minded about DHB too - it wasn't too long ago when WRs had trouble coming into the league and really didn't start to play well 'till their 3rd year or so. I've thought that maybe this is DHB. Maybe he's been on that slow rise and will improve this year even more. Who knows? This could be the year he sets some career highs.

 

[jurb26]

Btw, jurb - Just to show I'm open minded about DHB too - it wasn't too long ago when WRs had trouble coming into the league and really didn't start to play well 'till their 3rd year or so. I've thought that maybe this is DHB. Maybe he's been on that slow rise and will improve more this year even more. Who knows? This could be the year he shows it.

Fair enough. I read your posts thinking you were very anti DHB but I understand now its more a pro Hilton thing. It's all good. Personally, I think there could be enough to go around in Indy for them both to have very good seasons. Luck could easily throw for 8 or so more TDs this year and I'm guessing they would be the major beneficiaries of that.

I suppose the conflict we are having is that you see Hilton breaking out where I see the stats just being divided between the 2 pretty equally. Same bucket just disbursed differently. Moreover, I don't see how Hilton breaks out unless he takes DHB role at some point.

 

[NajehHejan]

Bummer - more cold water dumped

Darrius Heyward-Bey - WR - Colts
The Colts are "confident they've got a smart arrangement" with Darrius Heyward-Bey as a starter ahead of T.Y. Hilton.
Indianapolis has installed Heyward-Bey as their man in two-wide sets opposite Reggie Wayne and haven't wavered. The Indy Star says it's because the 6'2/210 DHB is better as a blocker in the run game and the Colts want to play with more balance on offense this year. That leaves the 5'9/178 Hilton as the third receiver, only playing in passing situations. It's a drain on Hilton's value as the Colts are going to run a lot more double-tight end sets under new OC Pep Hamilton. Former OC Bruce Arians loved to get three wideouts on the field as much as possible. There's value in DHB's 12th-round ADP.

 

[OnTheReg]

Ok, so DHB is a better blocker for the run game. I can appreciate that. But the fact remains, if Hilton performs the way many think he can, the Colts are going to find a way to get him the ball frequently. DHB isn't exactly Megatron, here. If Hilton is effective and builds on his connection with Luck, he will be fine.

 

[MAC_32]

Hilton is to Indy was Cruz was to the GMen the year he broke out.

Heyward Bey is a more explosive, and inconsistent, version of what the Colts had in Avery last year.

Both can be useful, as well as Wayne, Bradshaw, and Allen, in what I expect to be Andrew Luck's breakout year.

I am trying to leave my drafts with as many Colts as possible.

 

[Raiderfan32904]

Hilton >> DHB

That being said, there's something to say about how many total snaps a wideout gets per game. It correlates to targets or opportunity for targets. Hilton is still the guy with the upside, but DHB can be a compiler, because he's always been a good blocker. It's something that is always overlooked when evaluating WR's and TE's. It's essential to stay on the field. 12th round value for DHB is supposed to be good? A week ago I got him in the 16th round. Looks like his ADP is creeping up.

 

[JuniorNB]

Thank goodness my league doesn't reward points for good run blocks. I'll take Hilton all day and night over DHB. Regardless of who they 'say' is the starter.

 

[FF Ninja]

Bummer - more cold water dumped

Darrius Heyward-Bey - WR - Colts
The Colts are "confident they've got a smart arrangement" with Darrius Heyward-Bey as a starter ahead of T.Y. Hilton.
Indianapolis has installed Heyward-Bey as their man in two-wide sets opposite Reggie Wayne and haven't wavered. The Indy Star says it's because the 6'2/210 DHB is better as a blocker in the run game and the Colts want to play with more balance on offense this year. That leaves the 5'9/178 Hilton as the third receiver, only playing in passing situations. It's a drain on Hilton's value as the Colts are going to run a lot more double-tight end sets under new OC Pep Hamilton. Former OC Bruce Arians loved to get three wideouts on the field as much as possible. There's value in DHB's 12th-round ADP.

This is only news to delusional Hilton owners. Some hype trains are just too strong for logic and reason. Preseason touchdowns are like jet fuel. This is going to be funny to watch all season.

 

[FF Ninja]

I think Green Bay's use of Cobb is the perfect comparison to how Indy will use Hilton.

Based on what?

Cobb ran ~85% of his routes last season from the slot. Hilton ran ~43% of his routes from the slot. Now, reports are that Wayne will man the slot in 3 WR sets for the Colts, and Hilton will play outside. Hilton has only run 2 routes from the slot in preseason games to date.

Furthermore, the Colts are supposedly switching to a 2 TE base offense, meaning they will run a lot fewer snaps in 3 WR sets this year.

Do you think in spite of these things that Hilton will run a high percentage of his routes from the slot?

Don't confuse them with facts. Let them make comparisons to any and all small yet productive WRs.

He's small? He's good? Perfect comparison!

 

[NajehHejan]

With this news, you basically are taking a huge risk starting Hilton week 1. You may have to start your wr4 in your wr3 spot until this thing works itself out. Remember last year when Cobb only got 20 to 30 snaps a game to start? Looking like same thing here.

 

[need2know]

I have hilton as my wr2 right now, but we get credit for return stats too so that helps. If I did not get the return stats I would be a little more worried about the situation. I really thought he would start ahead of dhb. Hopefully, it won't matter

 

[Pipes]

Bummer - more cold water dumped

Darrius Heyward-Bey - WR - Colts
The Colts are "confident they've got a smart arrangement" with Darrius Heyward-Bey as a starter ahead of T.Y. Hilton.
Indianapolis has installed Heyward-Bey as their man in two-wide sets opposite Reggie Wayne and haven't wavered. The Indy Star says it's because the 6'2/210 DHB is better as a blocker in the run game and the Colts want to play with more balance on offense this year. That leaves the 5'9/178 Hilton as the third receiver, only playing in passing situations. It's a drain on Hilton's value as the Colts are going to run a lot more double-tight end sets under new OC Pep Hamilton. Former OC Bruce Arians loved to get three wideouts on the field as much as possible. There's value in DHB's 12th-round ADP.

This is only news to delusional Hilton owners. Some hype trains are just too strong for logic and reason. Preseason touchdowns are like jet fuel. This is going to be funny to watch all season

He did just fine as a WR3 last year. Yeah I know it's a different system but he will get his touches...just too much talent.

 

[Shutout]

I have obviously missed something on the TY Hilton talk. I don't know how he is going to be the darling everyone expected.

Unlike Pre-season, the Colts are going to have Wayne, Bradshaw, Fleener and Allen, and DHB all commanding looks for the ball and if Hilton isn't even on the field in that base set of there's (guess it would be a "21" base set), then I don't know how he can achieve what is being discussed unless he flat out gets the ball and produces everytime he is on the filed.

Unless there are injuries, I am seeing a season where he is like Sidney Rice or Torrey Smith. He will have good aggregate numbers at season end and he will have some big up games and he will have some of those 3/34 games littered everywhere.

Actually, now that I think about it, he is Nate Washington. I bet you can get Washington and come out with the exact same production that you will get from Hilton this year but pay a lot less for it.

 

[Shutout]

Bummer - more cold water dumped

Darrius Heyward-Bey - WR - Colts
The Colts are "confident they've got a smart arrangement" with Darrius Heyward-Bey as a starter ahead of T.Y. Hilton.
Indianapolis has installed Heyward-Bey as their man in two-wide sets opposite Reggie Wayne and haven't wavered. The Indy Star says it's because the 6'2/210 DHB is better as a blocker in the run game and the Colts want to play with more balance on offense this year. That leaves the 5'9/178 Hilton as the third receiver, only playing in passing situations. It's a drain on Hilton's value as the Colts are going to run a lot more double-tight end sets under new OC Pep Hamilton. Former OC Bruce Arians loved to get three wideouts on the field as much as possible. There's value in DHB's 12th-round ADP.

This is only news to delusional Hilton owners. Some hype trains are just too strong for logic and reason. Preseason touchdowns are like jet fuel. This is going to be funny to watch all season

He did just fine as a WR3 last year. Yeah I know it's a different system but he will get his touches...just too much talent.

Totally different ball game. THe COlts lived with 3 WR on the field last year. THis year, they will not. You can't score from the sideline.

 

[Pipes]

Bummer - more cold water dumped

Darrius Heyward-Bey - WR - Colts
The Colts are "confident they've got a smart arrangement" with Darrius Heyward-Bey as a starter ahead of T.Y. Hilton.
Indianapolis has installed Heyward-Bey as their man in two-wide sets opposite Reggie Wayne and haven't wavered. The Indy Star says it's because the 6'2/210 DHB is better as a blocker in the run game and the Colts want to play with more balance on offense this year. That leaves the 5'9/178 Hilton as the third receiver, only playing in passing situations. It's a drain on Hilton's value as the Colts are going to run a lot more double-tight end sets under new OC Pep Hamilton. Former OC Bruce Arians loved to get three wideouts on the field as much as possible. There's value in DHB's 12th-round ADP.

This is only news to delusional Hilton owners. Some hype trains are just too strong for logic and reason. Preseason touchdowns are like jet fuel. This is going to be funny to watch all season

He did just fine as a WR3 last year. Yeah I know it's a different system but he will get his touches...just too much talent.

Totally different ball game. THe COlts lived with 3 WR on the field last year. THis year, they will not. You can't score from the sideline.

Disagree...he will be on the field plenty. I keep hearing about the 2 TE sets but both Allen and Fleener are banged up and Fleener stunk in his limited preseason opportunity.

 

[MAC_32]

I have obviously missed something on the TY Hilton talk. I don't know how he is going to be the darling everyone expected.

Unlike Pre-season, the Colts are going to have Wayne, Bradshaw, Fleener and Allen, and DHB all commanding looks for the ball and if Hilton isn't even on the field in that base set of there's (guess it would be a "21" base set), then I don't know how he can achieve what is being discussed unless he flat out gets the ball and produces everytime he is on the filed.

Unless there are injuries, I am seeing a season where he is like Sidney Rice or Torrey Smith. He will have good aggregate numbers at season end and he will have some big up games and he will have some of those 3/34 games littered everywhere.

Actually, now that I think about it, he is Nate Washington. I bet you can get Washington and come out with the exact same production that you will get from Hilton this year but pay a lot less for it.

What has Fleener done to earn base set snaps over Hilton? He's facing an uphill battle this season imho

 

[FF Ninja]

Bummer - more cold water dumped

Darrius Heyward-Bey - WR - Colts
The Colts are "confident they've got a smart arrangement" with Darrius Heyward-Bey as a starter ahead of T.Y. Hilton.
Indianapolis has installed Heyward-Bey as their man in two-wide sets opposite Reggie Wayne and haven't wavered. The Indy Star says it's because the 6'2/210 DHB is better as a blocker in the run game and the Colts want to play with more balance on offense this year. That leaves the 5'9/178 Hilton as the third receiver, only playing in passing situations. It's a drain on Hilton's value as the Colts are going to run a lot more double-tight end sets under new OC Pep Hamilton. Former OC Bruce Arians loved to get three wideouts on the field as much as possible. There's value in DHB's 12th-round ADP.

This is only news to delusional Hilton owners. Some hype trains are just too strong for logic and reason. Preseason touchdowns are like jet fuel. This is going to be funny to watch all season

He did just fine as a WR3 last year. Yeah I know it's a different system but he will get his touches...just too much talent.

Totally different ball game. THe COlts lived with 3 WR on the field last year. THis year, they will not. You can't score from the sideline.

AND they lived by the deep ball. They are basically doing a 180 this year with a short passing game. I love watching Hilton skyrocketing up ADPs. I've seen him near WR24 recently. Hilarious.

 

[Yenrub]

I have hilton as my wr2 right now, but we get credit for return stats too so that helps. If I did not get the return stats I would be a little more worried about the situation. I really thought he would start ahead of dhb. Hopefully, it won't matter

Is he the punt or kick returner or both?

 

[Goldfinger007]

This move makes all the sense in the world to me. I completely see why the Colts want DHB on the field. The running game sucked last year and if they would like to keep Luck out of the training room, they are going to have to run the ball more effectively. DHB will provide a few thing for them that will help in that area. As has been stated, he is the superior blocker. He can also dictate the D's coverage. I highly doubt many teams will gamble on press coverage with him on the field. If he gets a step on your corner, he's gone, and everyone knows Luck can throw the deep ball. That's also going to make teams reluctant to walk up their safeties in run support as well, which gives them one less defender in the box. If they really are going to try to run a more balanced offense this year, and I think they will, it will likely eat into Hilton's opportunities.

 

[Man of Zen]

Bummer - more cold water dumped

Darrius Heyward-Bey - WR - Colts
The Colts are "confident they've got a smart arrangement" with Darrius Heyward-Bey as a starter ahead of T.Y. Hilton.
Indianapolis has installed Heyward-Bey as their man in two-wide sets opposite Reggie Wayne and haven't wavered. The Indy Star says it's because the 6'2/210 DHB is better as a blocker in the run game and the Colts want to play with more balance on offense this year. That leaves the 5'9/178 Hilton as the third receiver, only playing in passing situations. It's a drain on Hilton's value as the Colts are going to run a lot more double-tight end sets under new OC Pep Hamilton. Former OC Bruce Arians loved to get three wideouts on the field as much as possible. There's value in DHB's 12th-round ADP.

This is only news to delusional Hilton owners. Some hype trains are just too strong for logic and reason. Preseason touchdowns are like jet fuel. This is going to be funny to watch all season

He did just fine as a WR3 last year. Yeah I know it's a different system but he will get his touches...just too much talent.

I don't think there's much question that he can reprise his role from last year, I think there's just doubt that he's going to have the scope to improve upon it enough to make him worth the current price tag.

 

[rjv]

Bummer - more cold water dumped

Darrius Heyward-Bey - WR - Colts
The Colts are "confident they've got a smart arrangement" with Darrius Heyward-Bey as a starter ahead of T.Y. Hilton.
Indianapolis has installed Heyward-Bey as their man in two-wide sets opposite Reggie Wayne and haven't wavered. The Indy Star says it's because the 6'2/210 DHB is better as a blocker in the run game and the Colts want to play with more balance on offense this year. That leaves the 5'9/178 Hilton as the third receiver, only playing in passing situations. It's a drain on Hilton's value as the Colts are going to run a lot more double-tight end sets under new OC Pep Hamilton. Former OC Bruce Arians loved to get three wideouts on the field as much as possible. There's value in DHB's 12th-round ADP.

This is only news to delusional Hilton owners. Some hype trains are just too strong for logic and reason. Preseason touchdowns are like jet fuel. This is going to be funny to watch all season

He did just fine as a WR3 last year. Yeah I know it's a different system but he will get his touches...just too much talent.

Totally different ball game. THe COlts lived with 3 WR on the field last year. THis year, they will not. You can't score from the sideline.

AND they lived by the deep ball. They are basically doing a 180 this year with a short passing game. I love watching Hilton skyrocketing up ADPs. I've seen him near WR24 recently. Hilarious.

Exactly. The real issue here is where TY is going in drafts, its silly. DHB is the real bargin. He has improved dramatically. Besides I'll give him the benefit of the doubt here, look at the QBs that DHB had tossing to him? Luck is head and shoulders above all of them.

 

[Man of Zen]

With this news, you basically are taking a huge risk starting Hilton week 1. You may have to start your wr4 in your wr3 spot until this thing works itself out. Remember last year when Cobb only got 20 to 30 snaps a game to start? Looking like same thing here.

And again, I have no problem believing Hilton is in for a FF explosion if Wayne misses a significant amount of time, a la Jennings 2012.

 

[JuniorNB]

Bummer - more cold water dumped

Darrius Heyward-Bey - WR - Colts
The Colts are "confident they've got a smart arrangement" with Darrius Heyward-Bey as a starter ahead of T.Y. Hilton.
Indianapolis has installed Heyward-Bey as their man in two-wide sets opposite Reggie Wayne and haven't wavered. The Indy Star says it's because the 6'2/210 DHB is better as a blocker in the run game and the Colts want to play with more balance on offense this year. That leaves the 5'9/178 Hilton as the third receiver, only playing in passing situations. It's a drain on Hilton's value as the Colts are going to run a lot more double-tight end sets under new OC Pep Hamilton. Former OC Bruce Arians loved to get three wideouts on the field as much as possible. There's value in DHB's 12th-round ADP.

This is only news to delusional Hilton owners. Some hype trains are just too strong for logic and reason. Preseason touchdowns are like jet fuel. This is going to be funny to watch all season

He did just fine as a WR3 last year. Yeah I know it's a different system but he will get his touches...just too much talent.

Totally different ball game. THe COlts lived with 3 WR on the field last year. THis year, they will not. You can't score from the sideline.

AND they lived by the deep ball. They are basically doing a 180 this year with a short passing game. I love watching Hilton skyrocketing up ADPs. I've seen him near WR24 recently. Hilarious.

I love posts like this. The cocky, know-it-all posts. I love quoting them again in six weeks and watching the poster ignore it.

 

[Pipes]

Bummer - more cold water dumped

Darrius Heyward-Bey - WR - Colts
The Colts are "confident they've got a smart arrangement" with Darrius Heyward-Bey as a starter ahead of T.Y. Hilton.
Indianapolis has installed Heyward-Bey as their man in two-wide sets opposite Reggie Wayne and haven't wavered. The Indy Star says it's because the 6'2/210 DHB is better as a blocker in the run game and the Colts want to play with more balance on offense this year. That leaves the 5'9/178 Hilton as the third receiver, only playing in passing situations. It's a drain on Hilton's value as the Colts are going to run a lot more double-tight end sets under new OC Pep Hamilton. Former OC Bruce Arians loved to get three wideouts on the field as much as possible. There's value in DHB's 12th-round ADP.

This is only news to delusional Hilton owners. Some hype trains are just too strong for logic and reason. Preseason touchdowns are like jet fuel. This is going to be funny to watch all season

He did just fine as a WR3 last year. Yeah I know it's a different system but he will get his touches...just too much talent.

Totally different ball game. THe COlts lived with 3 WR on the field last year. THis year, they will not. You can't score from the sideline.

AND they lived by the deep ball. They are basically doing a 180 this year with a short passing game. I love watching Hilton skyrocketing up ADPs. I've seen him near WR24 recently. Hilarious.

WR24 is not out of the question even with his perceived limited opportunities. Good coordinators find ways to get their best playmakers opportunities. Everything coming out of Colts camp indicates TY is their best playmaker. It looks like by the end of the year half the board will be eating crow...hopefully TY haters enjoy the taste of it.

 

[Shutout]

With this news, you basically are taking a huge risk starting Hilton week 1. You may have to start your wr4 in your wr3 spot until this thing works itself out. Remember last year when Cobb only got 20 to 30 snaps a game to start? Looking like same thing here.

And again, I have no problem believing Hilton is in for a FF explosion if Wayne misses a significant amount of time, a la Jennings 201

Bummer - more cold water dumped

Darrius Heyward-Bey - WR - Colts
The Colts are "confident they've got a smart arrangement" with Darrius Heyward-Bey as a starter ahead of T.Y. Hilton.
Indianapolis has installed Heyward-Bey as their man in two-wide sets opposite Reggie Wayne and haven't wavered. The Indy Star says it's because the 6'2/210 DHB is better as a blocker in the run game and the Colts want to play with more balance on offense this year. That leaves the 5'9/178 Hilton as the third receiver, only playing in passing situations. It's a drain on Hilton's value as the Colts are going to run a lot more double-tight end sets under new OC Pep Hamilton. Former OC Bruce Arians loved to get three wideouts on the field as much as possible. There's value in DHB's 12th-round ADP.

This is only news to delusional Hilton owners. Some hype trains are just too strong for logic and reason. Preseason touchdowns are like jet fuel. This is going to be funny to watch all season

He did just fine as a WR3 last year. Yeah I know it's a different system but he will get his touches...just too much talent.

Totally different ball game. THe COlts lived with 3 WR on the field last year. THis year, they will not. You can't score from the sideline.

AND they lived by the deep ball. They are basically doing a 180 this year with a short passing game. I love watching Hilton skyrocketing up ADPs. I've seen him near WR24 recently. Hilarious.

I love posts like this. The cocky, know-it-all posts. I love quoting them again in six weeks and watching the poster ignore it.

And sometimes thos people saying "temper your expectations" are exactly right and those people that championed player X are the ones nowhere to be found.

Every year, this happens and some are right and some are wrong. Congrats to you if you are the correct one and I'm sure we will be seeing your posts again to remind people.

 

[pizzatyme]

At his current ADP, would anyone be upset with a stat line of 4/60/1 for Hilton? Followed the next week by 5/60/0?

If he alternated weeks like this, would you draft him at his current ADP?

DHB is going to see lots of weeks like this IMO: 5/55/0

 

[Raiderfan32904]

The problem that I have with drafting TY is the price tag. About a week ago, I had the choice of Austin, Desean, or Steve Smith where TY went. Someone took him ahead of me. I thought that was insane then, and I still do. I like Hilton's talent, and he's is a nice receiver to have on your roster, with WR2 upside. But he strikes me as a shaky WR3 as of opening day. I was willing to draft him among the next group of WR's like James Jones, and Chris Givens. I had him pegged as a decent value in the 8th or 9th round in PPR. But going in the 7th was crazy. Maybe on this news, I can still get him in the 8th or 9th round in drafts later this week. That sounds about right to me. Equally hilarious was DHB falling to the 16th round. I'm pretty sure I won't be able to wait that long to get him now.

 

[Raiderfan32904]

At his current ADP, would anyone be upset with a stat line of 4/60/1 for Hilton? Followed the next week by 5/60/0?

If he alternated weeks like this, would you draft him at his current ADP?

DHB is going to see lots of weeks like this IMO: 5/55/0

I'd be thrilled with DHB getting a lot of those 5/55/0 weeks with the occasional TD thrown in. For a WR#5, that's awesome!

 

[Man of Zen]

Bummer - more cold water dumped

Darrius Heyward-Bey - WR - Colts
The Colts are "confident they've got a smart arrangement" with Darrius Heyward-Bey as a starter ahead of T.Y. Hilton.
Indianapolis has installed Heyward-Bey as their man in two-wide sets opposite Reggie Wayne and haven't wavered. The Indy Star says it's because the 6'2/210 DHB is better as a blocker in the run game and the Colts want to play with more balance on offense this year. That leaves the 5'9/178 Hilton as the third receiver, only playing in passing situations. It's a drain on Hilton's value as the Colts are going to run a lot more double-tight end sets under new OC Pep Hamilton. Former OC Bruce Arians loved to get three wideouts on the field as much as possible. There's value in DHB's 12th-round ADP.

This is only news to delusional Hilton owners. Some hype trains are just too strong for logic and reason. Preseason touchdowns are like jet fuel. This is going to be funny to watch all season

He did just fine as a WR3 last year. Yeah I know it's a different system but he will get his touches...just too much talent.

Totally different ball game. THe COlts lived with 3 WR on the field last year. THis year, they will not. You can't score from the sideline.

AND they lived by the deep ball. They are basically doing a 180 this year with a short passing game. I love watching Hilton skyrocketing up ADPs. I've seen him near WR24 recently. Hilarious.

Exactly. The real issue here is where TY is going in drafts, its silly. DHB is the real bargin. He has improved dramatically. Besides I'll give him the benefit of the doubt here, look at the QBs that DHB had tossing to him? Luck is head and shoulders above all of them.

I'm not 100% sure I'm ready to call start of year 2 Luck "head and shoulders" above Palmer. He certainly wasn't last year. Palmer shepherded that passing attack to numbers pretty similar to IND.

If I had to gamble on the future of either guy, it would certainly be Luck. But I don't want to sell Palmer all that short.

 

[LittlePhatty]

Lesson:

Draft Luck and you get all the TDs.

Look elsewhere for a more clear-cut situation at WR.

 

[We Tigers]

FF Ninja, what are your projections for Hilton? Targets, receptions, yards, scores if you're so inclined. I'm curious if your "delusional! Hilarious!" means you're thinking a total bomb of a season where he is ignored by Pep Hamilton and gets something like 70 targets/40 catches.

 

[Johnny Blood]

That blurb doesn't say anything we didn't already know, so I wouldn't change my mind based on it.

They make it sound like the Colts are going to do a Dan Reeves/Elway impersonation. I don't buy it.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Bummer - more cold water dumped

Darrius Heyward-Bey - WR - Colts
The Colts are "confident they've got a smart arrangement" with Darrius Heyward-Bey as a starter ahead of T.Y. Hilton.
Indianapolis has installed Heyward-Bey as their man in two-wide sets opposite Reggie Wayne and haven't wavered. The Indy Star says it's because the 6'2/210 DHB is better as a blocker in the run game and the Colts want to play with more balance on offense this year. That leaves the 5'9/178 Hilton as the third receiver, only playing in passing situations. It's a drain on Hilton's value as the Colts are going to run a lot more double-tight end sets under new OC Pep Hamilton. Former OC Bruce Arians loved to get three wideouts on the field as much as possible. There's value in DHB's 12th-round ADP.

Personally I think this is where it's at.

From what I recall earlier on it was not clear if Heyward-Bey would really be the starter, or if Hilton would be taking that position or if he would be taking a good number of snaps. People have been disappointed with DHB (and I've had him, watched him, and yes I do recall seeing him drop the ball, get outmuscled and the like, but the Raiders were just a big mess altogether last year, even with Palmer throwing things were not clicking, you can't tell anything from all that and from the time before, anymore than Bowe's and Charles' years last year with KC project to what they will do this year under Reid).

But what this local reporting for their fans in terms of what to expect confirms what's been said all along, expect 2 TE's, 1 RB a lot, and with Hamilton's past expect more reliance on the TEs.

To me the conversation ought to revert back to whether Fleener or Allen will be getting what, the fact that Fleener has disappointed in the pass game while Allen has done better. And Allen's healthy now. I think Allen's a dark horse here.

 

[massraider]

Let's be clear about what everyone is arguing about, before people assign opinions to the "Hilton lovers." (Not for nothin, but you sound like a 12-year-old using this phrase).

The arguing is about Hilton vs. DHB, not their ADP. I've not seen one post regarding Hilton as a steal at his ADP. And there are safer picks in that area. And I haven't seen anyone say DHB isn't a bargain at his ADP.

 

[ponchsox]

Aren't we getting a little too caught up in the "starter" tag for DHB? This is similar to an NBA 6th man like Jason Terry who isn't a "starter" but ends up getting more minutes than the starter.

Does anyone actually think Hilton will get less snaps than DHB?

 

[Man of Zen]

Aren't we getting a little too caught up in the "starter" tag for DHB? This is similar to an NBA 6th man like Jason Terry who isn't a "starter" but ends up getting more minutes than the starter.

Does anyone actually think Hilton will get less snaps than DHB?

Yes?

Barring injury, I'm starting to have trouble imagining it any other way.

That's the crux of it, I think. The lack of opportunity.

(2-wide sets + 3-wide sets) > 3-wide sets only.

Looks like more or less a redux of last year with Avery, with different personnel in place.

 

[Saint]

for the record, 14-team non-ppr draft last night.

Hilton at 6.04, before Austin, Shorts, Bolden, and Stevie Johnson.

I like Hilton's potential, but it just seems too steep a price.

 

[Bayhawks]

Bummer - more cold water dumped

Darrius Heyward-Bey - WR - Colts
The Colts are "confident they've got a smart arrangement" with Darrius Heyward-Bey as a starter ahead of T.Y. Hilton.
Indianapolis has installed Heyward-Bey as their man in two-wide sets opposite Reggie Wayne and haven't wavered. The Indy Star says it's because the 6'2/210 DHB is better as a blocker in the run game and the Colts want to play with more balance on offense this year. That leaves the 5'9/178 Hilton as the third receiver, only playing in passing situations. It's a drain on Hilton's value as the Colts are going to run a lot more double-tight end sets under new OC Pep Hamilton. Former OC Bruce Arians loved to get three wideouts on the field as much as possible. There's value in DHB's 12th-round ADP.

This is only news to delusional Hilton owners. Some hype trains are just too strong for logic and reason. Preseason touchdowns are like jet fuel. This is going to be funny to watch all season

He did just fine as a WR3 last year. Yeah I know it's a different system but he will get his touches...just too much talent.

Totally different ball game. THe COlts lived with 3 WR on the field last year. THis year, they will not. You can't score from the sideline.

AND they lived by the deep ball. They are basically doing a 180 this year with a short passing game. I love watching Hilton skyrocketing up ADPs. I've seen him near WR24 recently. Hilarious.

I love posts like this. The cocky, know-it-all posts. I love quoting them again in six weeks and watching the poster ignore it.

The fact is that this is what they say they are trying to do. Whether they will continue to do so remains to be seen. I personally think the Colts "lived by the deep ball" last year because they had to. They had 7 games where they were down by 10+ points in the 2nd half, so they had to throw a lot to try to catch up. In addition, they had several other games that were close, where they couldn't just "run out the clock."

I don't see Indy being so substantially better this year that they won't be similar situations again. Sure they say that they would love to line up in 2-TE sets, and run the ball a lot, but I don't know that circumstances will allow them to do that.

ETA-FF Ninja probably won't ignore it. He will try to argue/defend/rationalize his position, but I don't know that he will ignore you "calling him out" by quoting him.

 

[Bayhawks]

Bummer - more cold water dumped

Darrius Heyward-Bey - WR - Colts
The Colts are "confident they've got a smart arrangement" with Darrius Heyward-Bey as a starter ahead of T.Y. Hilton.
Indianapolis has installed Heyward-Bey as their man in two-wide sets opposite Reggie Wayne and haven't wavered. The Indy Star says it's because the 6'2/210 DHB is better as a blocker in the run game and the Colts want to play with more balance on offense this year. That leaves the 5'9/178 Hilton as the third receiver, only playing in passing situations. It's a drain on Hilton's value as the Colts are going to run a lot more double-tight end sets under new OC Pep Hamilton. Former OC Bruce Arians loved to get three wideouts on the field as much as possible. There's value in DHB's 12th-round ADP.

Personally I think this is where it's at.

From what I recall earlier on it was not clear if Heyward-Bey would really be the starter, or if Hilton would be taking that position or if he would be taking a good number of snaps. People have been disappointed with DHB (and I've had him, watched him, and yes I do recall seeing him drop the ball, get outmuscled and the like, but the Raiders were just a big mess altogether last year, even with Palmer throwing things were not clicking, you can't tell anything from all that and from the time before, anymore than Bowe's and Charles' years last year with KC project to what they will do this year under Reid).

But what this local reporting for their fans in terms of what to expect confirms what's been said all along, expect 2 TE's, 1 RB a lot, and with Hamilton's past expect more reliance on the TEs.

To me the conversation ought to revert back to whether Fleener or Allen will be getting what, the fact that Fleener has disappointed in the pass game while Allen has done better. And Allen's healthy now. I think Allen's a dark horse here.

The same newspaper reported less than a week ago that Hilton was a "star in the making," and that Hilton is unofficially the #2, and DHB holds that position "in name only."

What makes one report more accurate than the other?

 

[Bayhawks]

Aren't we getting a little too caught up in the "starter" tag for DHB? This is similar to an NBA 6th man like Jason Terry who isn't a "starter" but ends up getting more minutes than the starter.

Does anyone actually think Hilton will get less snaps than DHB?

Yes?

Barring injury, I'm starting to have trouble imagining it any other way.

That's the crux of it, I think. The lack of opportunity.

(2-wide sets + 3-wide sets) > 3-wide sets only.

Looks like more or less a redux of last year with Avery, with different personnel in place.

This is absolutely right. If the Colts continue to have DHB play in 2-WR sets, he will get more snaps than Hilton; however, as the article that is being cited suggests, the reason DHB is the #2 is because he's a better blocker. None of my FF leagues gives WR points for blocks, so if he gets 20% more snaps than Hilton, but he's a blocker on those snaps, that doesn't add to his FF value, IMO.

Last year, Avery got more snaps than Hilton, but Hilton was more valuable, FF-speaking. Even if DHB remains the "#2," I think Hilton will produce more FF points.