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Is alcohol addiction a disease? My wife is an alcoholic. (1 Viewer)

Ditkaless Wonders said:
Move past it or move on.  Nothing productive can come from mulling this over and sharing your musings with her.  Oversharing this after one time is not sharing, exploring or examining the matter, it is punishment to a person who is experiencing shame and guilt, and who is going to learn soon in her AA program that she needs to make amends.  (Shame and guilt trigger her coping mechanism, which has been drinking, you already know this so if you go there knowing this you may want to see that you have chosen a path.) You need to be with her or away from her.  This is not a time you can straddle two horses across a stream. Commitment or divorce, one.  Good luck
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DW the bolded is language I heard today, which makes me suspect that you've been through this?

 
If she was passed out she might have a fatty liver.  I have heard your liver eventually stops being able to process alcohol, and you end up getting stoned drunk.  One day your cool catching a buzz, and the next day your passed out after a drink.  She needs to realize if she doesn't stop she will die. 

Eta (actually I think I learned all of that here)

 
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I wouldn't get so caught up on the past, but I'd definitely lean towards the worst of it.  She was definitely DWI. Kids are safe, and you both have a long road ahead.  Might as well not get stuck on what's in the past.  The lying comes along with the addiction.  It's like a package deal.  

 
She definitely drove the kids home from school drunk. You have every right to be angry about that. Sorry you're going through this and best of luck with everything. 

 
If your wife is not working outside of the home, I think you should consider a part-time job to be an eventual goal for her. An alcohol problem is very easy for stay-at-home moms to hide. A job might also improve her self-esteem. 

 
First sorry to read all of this.

I assume that you have arranged for give your daughters some help coping with all of this?

Hoping everything is going to work out for the best for all of you  from this point on...

 
Best of luck. And I haven't seen it mentioned, but strongly consider help for the kids as well, especially since they found her and are old enough to understand.

ETA -- or I guess it was mentioned after I refreshed. 

 
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timschochet said:
As I wrote, I had my suspicions for a while, she denied it and lied to me. My daughters found her collapsed on the bathroom floor.

I do feel responsible that I did not act on my suspicions earlier. It horrifies me that our kids found her like that.
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I highly recommend that if you are still concerned you express to your wife that you would like a breathalyzer lock on her car.  I know this is a harsh idea, but this is the time to bring it up.

 
Henry Ford said:
I highly recommend that if you are still concerned you express to your wife that you would like a breathalyzer lock on her car.  I know this is a harsh idea, but this is the time to bring it up.
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Wow. I never considered that, wasn't even aware of it. 

Thanks, I will give that some thought. 

 
Sorry to hear. I believe it is a disease. Some people are prone to addictions, alcohol being one type, and when life hands you bad cards, many go there to cope. Best thing you can do is be supportive and don't place blame. Something led her to this and that's what needs to be found out and addressed. Glad to hear she's getting treatment. Getting them to admit there's a problem is 1/2 the battle they say.

Wishing you both the best. xxx

 
timschochet said:
Wow. I never considered that, wasn't even aware of it. 

Thanks, I will give that some thought. 
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It's $100-200 to install and then a monthly charge as I recall.  She will not want to do it.  She will balk at the idea of having to use it in front of friends and family and it will be a point of contention.

If you truly don't know if she's been driving your kids intoxicated, it may be the only way you can get peace of mind on this. 

There is no embarrassment that is worth your kids' lives. If she realizes that, and is okay with people knowing she is not yet capable of fully controlling her illness in exchange for that check on her actions, she may be ready to be sober.

 
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Full disclosure, I'm a gambling addict.  There's no breathalyzer for "wants to gamble."  I've always been an adrenaline junkie, always pushing limits, and I literally enjoy losing more than I enjoy winning.  It's a sickness to be sure.

The day I was able to be "sober" from that high was the same day I was able to admit to every single person in my life, my in-laws, my co-workers, my friends, my wife, everyone that I was an addict.  Until that point, when I could still hide it from anyone I still hid it from everyone.  When it was convenient.  And I left my debit card and credit cards at home for about a year, only carried enough cash for a meal and a tank of gas, and had to ask my wife to pull out cash for me if I needed it.  I requested those checks on myself.  I would never have even agreed to them until I decided I needed to stop.

 
Sorry to hear about your wife, Tim. I hope your family gets through this together and is stronger and more loving because of it.

I have a few friends with similar experiences, and I know one of them wished she had been more strict in ensuring her husband stuck to the 12 steps. Her kids had to endure a number of incidents like your kids had when finding your wife on the floor. Be supportive, loving and forgiving to your wife, but if she can't stay sober, do what you must for your kids.

 
Good luck, man.

My older brother has been sober for about 22 years.  AA has its critics but it worked wonders for my brother.  In some ways he switched his addiction to booze with an addiction to AA.  Most of his social life is related to AA.  He even attends conventions out of state.  

 
Reg Lllama of Brixton said:
Good luck, man.

My older brother has been sober for about 22 years.  AA has its critics but it worked wonders for my brother.  In some ways he switched his addiction to booze with an addiction to AA.  Most of his social life is related to AA.  He even attends conventions out of state.  
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I have a frat brother that went sober 32 years ago.  He goes to those events also.   Some people are strong enough to do this, and some are not. And with all the support in the world, you can't help a person that doesn't want to make the effort.

My mom went to rehab like three times when I was in my teens. She did the part time work thing. None of it worked because she didn't want it to work. Countless pass outs and other horrible stories. I pray that your kids see no more of that crap.

I was always the kid that tried to make things work and tried to help her as much as I could, thinking that I could actually help.

Right before I turned 17, (after 8 years of this ####), I was listening to Dr Laura before she became famous and was only on KEZY (an Anaheim station.  Is it still there Scho?). She explained how none of this stuff was my fault and how no part of fixing it was my responsibility.  So glad I heard that then.  I

Glad to see you are looking out for your kids.  That car lock idea is a good one IMO. Might be the thing that really makes her take this as serious as she needs to. 

My last comment is you have a right to be mad, just vent like crazy to all the doctors and counselors and not her. You'll find it way more therapeutic for you and add no stress to her.

 
Dr Laura, whom I'm not a fan of (because of her anti-gay remarks) is on Sirius now, I believe. But I'm glad she helped you. 

 
Good luck to you, your wife and your family.  One of my sisters battled a substance abuse problem about 25 years ago.  It nearly took her life.  In my experience--there is addictive behavior--and that behavior cannot be changed.  However--what can be changed is what people with addictive behaviors are addicted to.  My sister went from being addicted to drugs to being addicted to mentoring and being addicted to church.     You don't change the behavior--you change the addiction to something healthier.   My best wishes. 

 
Tim, just be there for your wife right now. Conflict may cause her to re-lapse. 

I wish you and your family luck.

I can semi-relate as I'm in the early stages of kicking a habit myself and it's not easy but so far I have the support of my wife and that is a tremendous help. 

GL GB.

 
I would have thought a disease was something that could be proven by science eg a blood, urine, stool etc sample.

I would probably refer to alcoholism more like a mental illness. Sometimes brought on by genetics, sometimes by life experience.

Now while it is easier to blame her for some of the situations she has put you and especially your children in, you are playing a dangerous game. Has she reached rock bottom or is she even fully accepting of her condition? I am not an expert, but wouldnt most alcoholics not become sober instantly? It would take some months, years or perhaps never to not have another drink.

Another thing you have to truly be honest with yourself about. Have you contributed in any way to her situation? She ultimately bears the responsibility of her behavior and predicament, but is her recovery better with your help or without? Do you cause her unhappiness? Is there something you can change about you, your lifestyle or behavior that will help in the long run? 

Good luck. Choices you make now will have long term consequences. Make them wisely.

 
timschochet said:
I think that's the point of the letter I'm supposed to read her tomorrow. The counselor suggested I let all my feelings out, including my anger, and that she needed to hear it. So she's going to hear it at least once. But I agree with you, once is enough. It's not like I plan on repeating it.

The trust issue though is more difficult. When my wife returns home she wants to resume driving the kids around, and frankly I want her to as well, because I need the break and to be able to work more than I have in the last several weeks. But I need to know I can trust her, and we haven't gotten there yet.
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Tim, I had a very similar experience that your daughters have experienced... I was 20 years old when I walked in on my mother who was passed out in the back seat of her car in the garage. My parents were divorced by that time. I was trying to finish college. We had to put her in a detox facility, and that was pretty much the extent of it at that time. I spent the next several years trying to understand everything that was going on. And it was hard. My mother continued to be a raging alcoholic. And there was nobody there to keep an eye on her. When I was 25, I walked in on my mother passed out again. She was an absolute mess. Called 911, her BAC at the hospital was 0.375, and that was the last time I saw her for a long, long time. I was angry with her for a very long, long time. She was not at my wedding. She was not there for the birth of either of my kids.

My point being, your feelings of anger are legitimate. You are entitled to feel that way. But you have to understand that your feelings and actions have consequences too. You are angry right now. That's okay. But you understand very little of what is going on with your entire family. You are a smart guy, and you seemingly have your #### together. But I would bet that you know much less than you think you know. And you do not... and will not... have the answers. And that will probably be very difficult for you to accept. You need to own your feelings, but you also need to open your mind and legitimize your wife's feelings as well. This is assuming of course that you still want to have a relationship with her. That's your decision.

Watch "When A Man Loves A Woman" (again, if you have to). You will probably see this movie in a whole new light. It's pretty spot on.

ETA: I'm sorry that you are going through this. This will be a long, hard road. Best of luck. And at the point that your wife appears to be, I view it as a disease that affects many parts of the body. And it takes multi-level treatment to repair the damage.

 
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Good morning. There's some amazing posts in here. Especially bananafish- thanks for the advice- that goes for everyone. It's been truly helpful, and makes me very glad I did this. I hesitated a long time before starting this thread, because despite my large amount of posts here I'm not too interested in discussing my own situation, don't do it very often. But in this case I thought that given the wide number of people here I might get some really good feedback. You guys have exceeded my expectations. Thank you.

 
Tim, thank you sharing this as you didn't have to. I hope your wife makes a full recovery and your decision to get involved is/was a good one. I wish you nothing but the best from the MoP Army and I think it was brave to share all of this, hope others can see the value in this thread.

Good Luck!

 
"Disease" might not be the right word but I do think some people are wired differently when it comes to alcohol.  I helped a friend of mine go to rehab in the summer, she's back off the wagon.  I really don't understand how a few drinks turns to her going "into a hole" for days drinking.  I don't like to get drunk because it messes up my sleep while she can't sleep good unless she ties one on. :shrug:

 
I think it's time for MoP to take @bananafish off the ignore list. That's a quality post and I use to fire back once in a blue moon "we don't know anything about you" well we do now.

Glad you shared your experience. I'm sure there are lots of folks sweating as they read thru this thread, perhaps myself included. I would bet we have a lot more alcoholics in here than most would care to admit. 

 
timschochet said:
SHIZNITTTT said:
Well she had to drink the alcohol so she has some responsibility.  I think some people are more prone to addiction than others.  With that said who cares what it is labeled?  In the end as long as she gets help and is able to stay sober who cares if it is a disease or addiction or both.   Good Luck.  
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I actually care because it changes the way I think about this whole thing. Part of me is very pissed off at my wife, and the counselor tells me that's natural and be sure to put down my feelings in the letter. Yet if it's a disease, then I have no cause to be pissed off, if that makes any sense.
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I have some pretty intimate knowledge of situations like yours Tim (best I can tell from the posts here anyway).  As such, I'll give you my general opinion here, but if you want to talk more about it, let me know via PM.  I'll say there are many definitions for the word disease.  When you hear them talk about it as a disease, it's not in clinical terms.  It's not cancer.  The closest clinical disease I can think of for analogy would be type two diabetes.  Alcoholism destroys families if it's not worked on daily.  Right now, you are analyzing what went on, how you got there, what could have stopped it etc.  Those are going to prove to be fruitless exercises.  That's why they want you to write it down.  That helps you move on.  It's easier said than done, but your focus should be you and your children first and giving everything you have left to your wife.

You have every right to be pissed, especially if it's affecting your family in a negative way.  However, you have to also understand what you can control and what you can't.  Reality is, a good portion of what you are going to experience going forward is completely out of your hands.  You're just along for the ride.  Understanding this can be very liberating because it leaves you to focus on the things you can control.  You have to constantly remind yourself of the things you have control over and the things you don't.  This is a time where the more black/white, the better.  Don't feel guilty for drawing lines.  You can't fix your wife.  Only she can fix herself.  You CAN protect yourself and your kids.  Good Luck Tim...and as I said before, if you want to discuss more via PM, feel free to hit me up :thumbup:   

 
timschochet said:
Thanks for the kind words, everyone.

I'm really interested in the question, though, not simply because of my wife's situation (and how I feel about it emotionally) but because if alcoholism is a disease then it creates all sorts of free will dilemmas. When does choice end and "I couldn't help it!" start?
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I haven't read the whole thread, but less than halfway through the first page you've already beaten this point to death. I suggest to you Tim with as much respect as I can muster, as this is going to come across as an insult, but is really offered up as the help you really need right now.... stop focussing on what choices your wife made that resulted in this, and start focusing on what YOU do to her that contributed to her need to drink. 

 
Politician Spock said:
I haven't read the whole thread, but less than halfway through the first page you've already beaten this point to death. I suggest to you Tim with as much respect as I can muster, as this is going to come across as an insult, but is really offered up as the help you really need right now.... stop focussing on what choices your wife made that resulted in this, and start focusing on what YOU do to her that contributed to her need to drink. 
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If he thinks the answer to this question is "nothing", that's the problem...

 
I am glad this is headed in the right direction and I wish success to your family in recovering from this.  It is a winnable battle, but a very tough one. 

 
Tom Skerritt said:
I doubt he thinks it's nothing, but I'm sure he thinks it's much less than it really is.
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I'm exploring my own contribution but it's not something I want to discuss here. I'll just say that I recognize there are aspects of my personality and behavior which need to change in order to help my wife recover from this. 

 
Tim good luck to you and your wife.  I don't know if there is a difinitive answer to your question,  probably a little of both.  One thing I don't like is labels. People who are alchololics are often sescribed as alcoholic first.  For example my sister and I were discussing my grandma when my sister said 'well you know she was married to an alcoholic.'   Which was true but he was many many more things besides that. Sadly that label is so strong. So your wife may be an alcoholic but try to remember she is also many other things too. That is just one part of her.  

 
timschochet said:
I'm exploring my own contribution but it's not something I want to discuss here. I'll just say that I recognize there are aspects of my personality and behavior which need to change in order to help my wife recover from this. 
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And Tim... I hope you understand that you cannot "fix" this. This is not your problem to fix. You need to be there for support, for help when asked, and to listen.

 
culdeus said:
I know in the past youb said your wife was severely overweight and had gastric bypass. 

As it turns out one of the strange side effects is alcoholism. Seems the smaller stomach size can somehow accentuate the effects and make it more addictive. 
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For what it's worth I've had a gastric sleeve done and I know others that have as well.  I can honestly say I drink more now then I ever have and it's something I need to keep an eye on.  I know someone else who became a full fledged alcoholic as well.

point being it can be a problem in that population.   It doesn't obsolve her of responsibility but there is something to it.

 
timschochet said:
Good morning. There's some amazing posts in here. Especially bananafish- thanks for the advice- that goes for everyone. It's been truly helpful, and makes me very glad I did this. I hesitated a long time before starting this thread, because despite my large amount of posts here I'm not too interested in discussing my own situation, don't do it very often. But in this case I thought that given the wide number of people here I might get some really good feedback. You guys have exceeded my expectations. Thank you.
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#teamTimandFamily

 
timschochet said:
OK full disclosure here: my wife is an alcoholic. The reason that I took off from here for a period of time is that I discovered that fact (though I had suspected it for a long time) over the Christmas holidays. Without going into detail, my wife went into rehab, and is now in the middle of a month long recovery program at this hospital- that will be followed by a 90 day 90 AA meeting situation. She is in good spirits and doing well, I think (and hope.)

Today was the first day of "family week" at my wife's recovery, in which I am spending 3-4 hours with her every day, writing her a letter, learning about how to deal with this, etc. It's very informative and the people in charge are terrific. But this morning they had us watch a film which made the argument that alcoholism was a disease. The film was compelling, but left me with more questions than answers. And I still don't know how I feel about this, so I would like to lay the question out for you guys: is addiction a disease in the same way cancer or diabetes a disease? Or does the person (in this case my wife) bear a level of responsibility for her behavior?
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Good luck, Tim.  I'll be rooting for you, and your wife.

One piece of advice that I hope you will think about:  Please don't get too much in your head here about this stuff.  One of your great qualities is to turn things over in your head again and again until you get it, to look at things from lots of angles, and to entertain multiple theories.  It drives some people nuts here, and (resultingly) gives overs great entertainment.

But in your real life, I'd encourage you to let that particular analysis go.  Analysis whether it is a "disease" or she bears some responsibility can lead your down an unnecessary rabbit hole.  I know that you love thought experiments, but here . . . it may cause more trouble than it's worth.

What you need to remember:

1.  Find an alanon meeting to attend on the regular.

2. Actually go to the meetings, on the regular.

3. Go to some AA meetings.  On the regular.  Maybe with your wife, maybe just on your own.  You can start by going to an AA meeting while she is in rehab.  You will hear a LOT of the same things in AA and in a.lanon, but the messages and the character will be just a little different.  

4.  Even if you've gone to some AA or alanon in the past, you need to CONTINUE to do it now.  Now more than ever.

5.  Remember that you can't affect her or help her quit.  All you can do it provide an inhospitable environment for her drinking.  And stick to it.  That's what the AA and alanon are for.

6.  Remember: Take care of your kids, first, yourself second.  And that's it.

7.  Only your wife can get through this.  Alone.  You can't help her (or you can, I guess, by not helping her).  My alanon-speak is rusty after so many years.  Go hang out with some experts in about this.

8.  Good luck.

 
bananafish said:
That you and your children are open to attending Alanon/Alateen meetings is a huge positive step imo. I would also find a copy of the AA big book so you are familiar with what she is getting herself into. The more important question, rather than the disease conundrum, is about to be what role God takes in her/your life. I'm not a big God guy myself, but the question will come up and will be essential to her recovery. 
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This is a great paragraph.

Reminded me of a quote from so many years ago from a dear friend and mentor.  

He said "You need to believe in a power higher than yourself for this to work.  If you can't believe in god, at least believe in your refrigerator."

Me: "huh?"

Him: "Can you make ice cubes, motherf^cker?"

 
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Best of everything to you and your family, Tim. Lots of great advice being passed out here. I would just add that you need to keep talking - with your wife and your daughters - just to make sure everyone understands where everyone else is at mentally and emotionally.

 
bananafish said:
It is also true that addiction rewires the reward/reinforcement center of the brain located at the base of your skull (also known as the "lizard" brain) which also controls your desires for food and sex. Urges emanating from this area are almost impossible to wilfully control and the brain will try all sorts of minimizing/rationalizing tricks to get what it wants that seem totally irrational and embarrassing in hindsight but which made perfect sense at the time. It's really a bizarre psychological condition. 
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Wisdom here, my friends. Also, the reason why my first piece of advice to parents of teens, when they ask, is to keep their children from getting addicted to anything - even video games or chocolate cake -  before their cerebral cortices are completely wired (traditionally, 2 yrs after puberty). The thing about the pre-mammalian brain is that it hasn't 100th the elasticity of the brain's upper layers, which is why addiction treatment is so unscientific (almost unto fallacy) and tied into tight moral focus. When addiction crosses wires with the acquisitive aspects of the survival/lizard brain, countering it is monstrously difficult and modern behavioral systems teach people more how to abstract than subvert survival commands from the lower brain. Beware! dun-dun-dun-DAAAAH

 
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timschochet said:
I noticed that at the first AA meeting I went to with her at the hospital they served a LOT of sweets. Cookies, cake, etc. 
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Yeah, I think their mentality is smoke all the cigarettes and eat all the sweets you want until you get clean and are able to manage your addiction.  Still not sold on that method.  I guess it's often too challenging to give them all up at the same time.  

 
Henry Ford said:
I would never have even agreed to them until I decided I needed to stop.
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Unfortunately, that's the issue with addiction. Everyone else in the world can be on the same page about the addict's problem. But if the addict isn't ready, it's not going to work

 
Today we all read our letters- there were about 5 patients in recovery and 20 family members. Lots of crying, very emotional. The patients had to listen and are not allowed to respond for 24 hours. I'm emotionally exhausted. 

In my letter I described 4 emotions: anger over what my wife has done, guilt that I was partially responsible, fear and uncertainty about what comes next, and love and support. I ended by telling my wife that we would get through this together and that I was her partner. 

 
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