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Is Deangelo Williams a perfect buy-low? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Parkers99
- Start date
Kenny Powers
Footballguy
Fixed
cubbie5150
Footballguy
Take away Newton & the entire offense takes a nosedive, IMO. I'd rather have scraps than go hungry
I dont hope for injuries. What I would like is a change in offensive philosophy to run more with the running backs in the red zone.
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
I'd 'sell high' if still possible.
Stewart played many more snaps. Williams isn't a factor at all in the passing or goalline game. He's a very poor mans Willie Parker at this point. (Playing alongside a better all around RB)
Deangelo plays between the 20's -- probably 30-40% of the snaps.
Stewart played many more snaps. Williams isn't a factor at all in the passing or goalline game. He's a very poor mans Willie Parker at this point. (Playing alongside a better all around RB)
Deangelo plays between the 20's -- probably 30-40% of the snaps.
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Wolfpack26
Footballguy
Could it be?? A pulse in Deangelo Williams?
cubbie5150
Footballguy
He still only got 10 carries.... Just tempering any enthusiasm. Unless you think he's gonna avg 8 ypc, still not worth much barring a change to their gameplan, especially since it's clear Cam's gonna hog GL touches too.
Shutout
Footballguy
I think I heard the stat correctly yesterday (that Newton has ALL the rushing TDs for the Panthers this year).
It is very strange to see a rookie QB come into the league and be such a focal point of everything the team is doing. And now the Panthers are 1-3 and I don't know if they just let this go on or they change it up to try to have chances to win some games.
But either way, I still can't get excited about DWIl because I can't help but think that he is gonna end up with about 4 TDs this year. That is not enough, especially when you can't get 18-20 carries every week.
Instead of using him and getting mad on that one week when I NEED a TD and he gets ignored when the Panthers have the ball inside the 3, I think I will wait until he breaks one from about 20+ out and try to sell him while someone thinks he can do this on a regular basis. He may very well be back by then but it is still too inconsistent for me.
It is very strange to see a rookie QB come into the league and be such a focal point of everything the team is doing. And now the Panthers are 1-3 and I don't know if they just let this go on or they change it up to try to have chances to win some games.
But either way, I still can't get excited about DWIl because I can't help but think that he is gonna end up with about 4 TDs this year. That is not enough, especially when you can't get 18-20 carries every week.
Instead of using him and getting mad on that one week when I NEED a TD and he gets ignored when the Panthers have the ball inside the 3, I think I will wait until he breaks one from about 20+ out and try to sell him while someone thinks he can do this on a regular basis. He may very well be back by then but it is still too inconsistent for me.
LawFitz
Footballguy
They are 1-3 because of their defense. Cam has kept all three losses close. They would be getting blown out without him.
They are 1-3 because of their coaching (IMO). Being a Michigan fan, this looks very similar to Denard Robinson and the Wolverines when Rich Rod was there. Exciting to watch but a big fat "L" more times than not.One thing that I haven't seen mentioned is the move to the shotgun formation. Looks like the O-line hasn't figured out how to control the LOS with the same dominance they used to under Fox and typical QB under center / big push approach.
FavreCo
Footballguy
It is the way I think the QB should lineup now (in the NFL) 100% of the time with the RB right next to him. You got the pass, the draw, the shovel pass instantly. There is no need to line up under center except near the goallines.Forget about rushing TD's inside 10 from anyone but sCam. He will vulture most of them if not all of them, the way McNair vultured from E. George, among others. No idea what the berars were thinking , I knew sCam was going to take it himself on both of them. The bears even left the middle open once for him to walk thru.
urbanhack
Fight The Power!
Still going with this shtick??
strong
Footballguy
this is so funny to me. a 2-14 team that averaged 12 pts a game last year a lost by nearly 2 touchdowns each week: starts off with 4 competitive games, loses three close games--one against the defending champs, has scored almost half as many points as all of last year, and butthurt fantasy footballers that drafted deangelo williams are calling for a new offensive scheme?
listen. cam is carrying this team right now. sure, it's a little sad to see deangelo and stewart slip to fantasy irrelevancy, but come on. one look at cam's 50 (FIFTY!) touchdowns at auburn and we all should have known cam loves to hog the ball in the red zone. that's 50 SEC touchdowns. when was the last time a college player in a big time conference scored that many times? we all should have seen this coming. if we didn't, shame on us for ignoring the signals.
FavreCo
Footballguy
Yep. 0-3 when passing for 300+ yards. There once was a guy named Vince Young who did the same thing but passed for much less yardage and was the QB on a team that won games for him. He totally sucks now. Once the DC's get their heads out of their asses and gameplan this guy correctly, he will go back to the middle of the pack.
VaTerp
Footballguy
I don't disagree that they need to find more balance on offense and get more from the talents of Williams and Stewart.But I cant help but laugh at the comments suggesting that the Panthers are 1-3 and losing because of their offensive philosphy.This is a team that was 2-14 last year. This is a team that scored 20 points TWICE in ALL of 2010. This is a team that scored 16 offensive TDs in 16 games in 2010. Newton himself has accounted for 9 TDs in 4 games this year. They are clearly moving the ball and playing MUCH better offensively than they did at any point last season.So to suggest that they are losing because of the new offensive philosophy or relying so much on a rookie doesnt really add up.What they are doing is giving Newton the opportunity to make plays and build his confidence. I think it will pay dividends as he develops, they get better pieces around him, and they can balance Newton's strengths with things that help the running game as well.
shnikies
Footballguy
Vince Young was on a team with the 5th best defense. Vince Young didn't have his first 300 yard game until his 25th start and has never rushed for two touchdowns in a game in 54 games played. I think it's safe to say Newton has a brighter future than Vince Young. Not to mention, Newton seems to have the head for the position also. I don't mean to hijack a thread but mentioning Vince Young because he's a 6'5" black mobile QB makes little sense.
Listen.Andy Dalton took over a 4-12 team that lost its' top two receivers and is now 2-2 after just having beaten an undefeated team. Who's the better quarterback? Dalton? I don't think he threw 50 (FIFTY) TD passes in college but maybe he did. If it's a no-brainer that it's Cam, then why is the lesser quarterback with fewer weapons and worse offensive line winning more games? BTW Carolina's defense was 18th last year and now it's 14th so hard to blame that side of the ball.this is so funny to me. a 2-14 team that averaged 12 pts a game last year a lost by nearly 2 touchdowns each week: starts off with 4 competitive games, loses three close games--one against the defending champs, has scored almost half as many points as all of last year, and butthurt fantasy footballers that drafted deangelo williams are calling for a new offensive scheme?
Carolina Points Against:vs ARI 28vs GB 30vs JAX 10vs CHI 34Cincinnati Points Against:vs CLE 17vs DEN 24vs SF 13vs BUF 20
Shutout
Footballguy
Its not funny to the coaches and team that is 1-3. In the NFL, the ONLY thing that matters at the end of the day is wins and losses. While you and I may like to see pinball scores in our fantasy leagues, the real NFL likes nothing more than control.this is so funny to me.
a 2-14 team that averaged 12 pts a game last year a lost by nearly 2 touchdowns each week: starts off with 4 competitive games, loses three close games--one against the defending champs, has scored almost half as many points as all of last year, and butthurt fantasy footballers that drafted deangelo williams are calling for a new offensive scheme?
listen. cam is carrying this team right now. sure, it's a little sad to see deangelo and stewart slip to fantasy irrelevancy, but come on. one look at cam's 50 (FIFTY!) touchdowns at auburn and we all should have known cam loves to hog the ball in the red zone. that's 50 SEC touchdowns. when was the last time a college player in a big time conference scored that many times? we all should have seen this coming. if we didn't, shame on us for ignoring the signals.
If a team has a choice of going 11-5 and win all their games 3-0 or go 4-12 and score 28-35 each week, they are going to win 11 games 3-0. By any means necessary, even if it means taking the air out of the ball.
it is fine right now for a rookie coach to spend his honeymoon period seeing what kinds of bells and whistles his rookie QB can muster.
It is even fine for them to pretend that Cam Newton is already Aaron Rodgers or Michael Vick and sling it all over the field and run him, etc.
But it will not be long before there is real pressure to win games and if the Panthers can do that by using Cam the way they are now then that is great, but history suggests that with a young QB it will not be long before the interceptions and turnovers become a problematic subject that will be discussed or the hits he takes or the hits he takes when running.
All it will take is for Cam to get a concussion or injury at the goal line and the critics will be thick as thieves asking out lod why they "subject the franchise QB to punishment", much as people openly ask the question now about Vick. There WILL BE people asking why that is being risked when they have two more-than-capable RBs on the team (and one of them getting paid the kind of money you would think would suggest he will actually be subjected to that kind of punishment).
Carolina has been down for a little while. And to be perfectly honest, they have been boring with their every week 17-13 close losses. So we get it that they want to "look" like all the other teams and score 30 each week. It makes the casual observer (and some FF people) happy because people feel like if you can score 30 every week you always have a chance but when you only score 14 each week, people always fear that you can't play with the higher scoring teams. that is false, of course. The Bears spent almost 2 decades beating people 13-10 every week. But they won. And at some point, the shine here has to wear off and the team has to start winning.
there is a reason you don't see a lot of the elite QBs making a regular living out of goal line offense rushes. Even big guys like Big Ben defer to the run game or pass more than they ever sneak it.
There is just a lot more that can go wrong with your Qb than right in those situaitons.
So that was the question being asked: Not that there isn't some fun in what is going on but at some point, it is doubtful that the team becomes a winning team operating like this. And winning is all the NFL cares about.
Thunderlips
Footballguy
IF the team ain't winning....is what Newton doing all that effective?
CAR offensive points for: 89CIN offensive points for: 80CAR offensive yards/game: 440CIN offensive yards/game: 340So, Cincy is averaging 100 yards/game less than CAR, yet they have scored nearly as many offensive points and have a better record.
Cincy has also played CLE, DEN, SF, and BUF. Cinci has also given up only 74 points and 1102 yards in those 4 games. Carolina has given up 102 points and 1387 yards.
You people are freaking nuts. Take out Cam and inserted Clausen/Moore/Delhomme/St. Pierre and this team is getting blown out by 20+ by everyone except Jax who would have still won by 7+.
Let's go thru the exercise again...
12 drives, 6 results in scores, 2 in missed FGs. 8 of 12 drives Cam put the team in scoring position or scored.
Time of possession; Carolina 33:26, Chicago 26:31
Carolina is now ranked 8th in the league in TOP. The only game they didn't win the TOP resulted in a win. You guys are arguing that more ball control would result in more wins, yet the stats imply just the opposite for this team.
The biggest issue with this team has been the attricious special teams play. Probably need to put Cam on the coverage team. We're you guys claiming Rivers guady stats were the problem with the Chargers last year when they had the worst ST play in the league?
Let's go thru the exercise again...
12 drives, 6 results in scores, 2 in missed FGs. 8 of 12 drives Cam put the team in scoring position or scored.
Time of possession; Carolina 33:26, Chicago 26:31
Carolina is now ranked 8th in the league in TOP. The only game they didn't win the TOP resulted in a win. You guys are arguing that more ball control would result in more wins, yet the stats imply just the opposite for this team.
The biggest issue with this team has been the attricious special teams play. Probably need to put Cam on the coverage team. We're you guys claiming Rivers guady stats were the problem with the Chargers last year when they had the worst ST play in the league?
LargeMouthBass
Footballguy
No matter how you look at it, Carolina management messed up by paying this guy over 21 million in guaranteed money. You don't pay that kind of money for him to run 10 times a game.
Vicktimized
Footballguy
They've lost three games, two against pretty good teams who were favored by a nice chunk, and another in a rookie's home start. They've lost no game by more than a touchdown. Their defense needs to be rebuilt and has already been torched by injury. But while you're saying "they're 1-3" like Rivera's been an abject failure through a month, they're in reality done exactly what they're supposed to do. Win a game they were favored in. Lose three against tough foes that they went in as dogs to. I'm a Saints fan, and I expect a scare next Sunday in Carolina.Its not funny to the coaches and team that is 1-3. In the NFL, the ONLY thing that matters at the end of the day is wins and losses. While you and I may like to see pinball scores in our fantasy leagues, the real NFL likes nothing more than control.this is so funny to me.
a 2-14 team that averaged 12 pts a game last year a lost by nearly 2 touchdowns each week: starts off with 4 competitive games, loses three close games--one against the defending champs, has scored almost half as many points as all of last year, and butthurt fantasy footballers that drafted deangelo williams are calling for a new offensive scheme?
listen. cam is carrying this team right now. sure, it's a little sad to see deangelo and stewart slip to fantasy irrelevancy, but come on. one look at cam's 50 (FIFTY!) touchdowns at auburn and we all should have known cam loves to hog the ball in the red zone. that's 50 SEC touchdowns. when was the last time a college player in a big time conference scored that many times? we all should have seen this coming. if we didn't, shame on us for ignoring the signals.
If a team has a choice of going 11-5 and win all their games 3-0 or go 4-12 and score 28-35 each week, they are going to win 11 games 3-0. By any means necessary, even if it means taking the air out of the ball.
it is fine right now for a rookie coach to spend his honeymoon period seeing what kinds of bells and whistles his rookie QB can muster.
It is even fine for them to pretend that Cam Newton is already Aaron Rodgers or Michael Vick and sling it all over the field and run him, etc.
But it will not be long before there is real pressure to win games and if the Panthers can do that by using Cam the way they are now then that is great, but history suggests that with a young QB it will not be long before the interceptions and turnovers become a problematic subject that will be discussed or the hits he takes or the hits he takes when running.
All it will take is for Cam to get a concussion or injury at the goal line and the critics will be thick as thieves asking out lod why they "subject the franchise QB to punishment", much as people openly ask the question now about Vick. There WILL BE people asking why that is being risked when they have two more-than-capable RBs on the team (and one of them getting paid the kind of money you would think would suggest he will actually be subjected to that kind of punishment).
Carolina has been down for a little while. And to be perfectly honest, they have been boring with their every week 17-13 close losses. So we get it that they want to "look" like all the other teams and score 30 each week. It makes the casual observer (and some FF people) happy because people feel like if you can score 30 every week you always have a chance but when you only score 14 each week, people always fear that you can't play with the higher scoring teams. that is false, of course. The Bears spent almost 2 decades beating people 13-10 every week. But they won. And at some point, the shine here has to wear off and the team has to start winning.
there is a reason you don't see a lot of the elite QBs making a regular living out of goal line offense rushes. Even big guys like Big Ben defer to the run game or pass more than they ever sneak it.
There is just a lot more that can go wrong with your Qb than right in those situaitons.
So that was the question being asked: Not that there isn't some fun in what is going on but at some point, it is doubtful that the team becomes a winning team operating like this. And winning is all the NFL cares about.
Vicktimized
Footballguy
Cincy has a much better defense which is why they've won two games to Carolina's one; that and Carolina has faced a much tougher schedule. Also Carolina did have to play one game in really, really horrendous conditions. And that yardage indicator tells me that more than likely, Carolina is about to open up that offensive point differential with the Bengals going forward.If we're talking about a larger sample size than four games, 1-3 vs. 2-2 would carry some weight; as it stands, I think Carolina could win home games against the Browns and maybe even the Bills (though the latter would be a shootout). But we'll get a better image going forward ... the only conclusion I can draw from the first month is that both Cinci and Carolina are much better teams than expected.
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Kenny Powers
Footballguy
69yd TD run...started him because of bye week issues. Yeah, D-Will!!!!
nysportsfan
Footballguy
Awesome to see, but I can't join in your excitement, as I started Ingram instead. Nice to see this guy being used.69yd TD run...started him because of bye week issues. Yeah, D-Will!!!!
God, this guy is going to sucker in his owners for another couples weeks. And cause all of you to lose your games. The only value to be had here is to trade him IMMEDIATELY for ANYTHING. Get him off your roster now. This will not happen again.
cubbie5150
Footballguy
Yep...hope he scores again so I can maybe move him for something, anything of value
I don't know....people forget that ff is a long season. The coaches are not that stupid to just let Newton whip the ball around with no regard. At some point they are going to focus on getting him to play within the offense, DWill could be the beneficiary.
SproutDaddy
Footballguy
Typical shark pool idiocy as usual. As I stated in an early thread this year I had a feeling they were easing Deangelo back into his role after the injury and new system. His touches are increasing, as well as his production. Thanks for being a #### and wrong at the same time.Watch the games guy...Until then, do everyone a favor & just keep quiet.
SproutDaddy
Footballguy
Great insight here, coach.
Kenny Powers
Footballguy
Its been brought up enough in here that DWill is perennially a slow starter. Im not trading him, and just like McGahee who is on my team as well, his perceived value by others isnt good enough where its worth trading him because you wont get a comparable player in returnHell, last week he had 10 carries for 80 yards, this isnt all that surprising
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SproutDaddy
Footballguy
Obviously it is suprising to the "hawks."
nysportsfan
Footballguy
His touches aren't increasing. He's just doing more with them. Maybe they are respecting Cam a bit more? Not sure, but it's definitely positive.Typical shark pool idiocy as usual. As I stated in an early thread this year I had a feeling they were easing Deangelo back into his role after the injury and new system. His touches are increasing, as well as his production. Thanks for being a #### and wrong at the same time.
Good to see him finally show up. Hopefully it continues but I feel his production will continue to be spotty. Sold him in one league and hung onto him in another to hedge my emotions here.69yd TD run...started him because of bye week issues. Yeah, D-Will!!!!
Grahamburn
Footballguy
Still under-utilized. Cam is the show in Carolina at the expense of victories.
Agree totally, the guy does not get enough touches to be effective. If he is not perfect with the touches he gets, or at least take one of the 10 for a TD then he has no value and will ruin your fantasy week at the RB position. The long run is a bone for all owners to sell him off to some sucker in your league. I traded him to the Stewart owner for Benson...not that it helped me because Benson is terrible and has been outscored by DA the past 2 weeks combined, but I sleep well knowing I don't have to watch the Panthers backfield situation
how are his touches increasing13912109hard to trust a guy in your lineup with that kind of workload.Typical shark pool idiocy as usual. As I stated in an early thread this year I had a feeling they were easing Deangelo back into his role after the injury and new system. His touches are increasing, as well as his production. Thanks for being a #### and wrong at the same time.
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Sabertooth
Footballguy
Signs of life are encouraging. He's currently riding the pine though.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
What type of WR do you think you can get for D-will now after two big weeks in a row?
Shutout
Footballguy
That's how I see it as well. The BIG run and the TD gets the attention but when you look past the numbers, it is not an indication that he is being used any more or differenty; he just happened to break off a huge run and got people excited yesterday. Even yesterday, Cam had another goalline carry to try to make the TD. Until that changes, there is really nothing new to report. He is still getting 9-12 carries or so and it doesn't appear the Panthers are attempting to get him any more involved. Yesterday's game could have just as easily been a short gain instead of the long TD run and had that happened his statline would have been 9/~50 (same old same old). I had him in a lineup due to necessity and even when I saw it I took it as an unexpected "nice" thing, not as a guy that had turned a corner. The rest of the game looked exactly like all the others and I just can't depend on a guy to break a big run more games than not.
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