Is it ever ok to use a belt to discipline your child? (1 Viewer)

[General Malaise]

One shouldn't throw stones if one doesn't want them thrown back at them, no?

If BF is going to make the blanket statement that anyone who spanks their child is a failure as a parent (made before any comment on mental illness was made), he shouldn't be so sensitive if someone in turn directs a comment back to him (and if we're really keeping track, BF posted his 'failure' comments about 20 posts after jonessed told his story about the one and only time he spanked his child).

Sure, but I also can understand being very angry at having somebody mock in a very patronizing manner - not once but twice - a highly senstive and very personal account about a sibling and a parent.

Great, so now childhood spanking is the cause of mental illness. Another page and we may find that the collective elimination of childhood spanking may actually be a cure to cancer.

[i hope you aren't this judgemental with your kids. You might cause a mental illness.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

Congress passes new law allowing strangers to hit other people's ####### kids in the supermarket

 

[Apple Jack]

I'm a big fan of a coat hanger to the back. And my best friend was thrown through a plate glass window by his father as a kid and I think that's a good one to have in play, too. Take no option off the table. These kids need to know who's boss.

Posts like this definitely solidify my opinion that you were beaten as a child.

Not once. Mom tried to catch me on the back of the leg as I was running away from her up the stairs once. She missed.

 

[Apple Jack]

Congress passes new law allowing strangers to hit other people's ####### kids in the supermarket

See, now we're cooking with gas.

 

[Wrigley]

Congress passes new law allowing strangers to hit other people's ####### kids in the supermarket

with belts?

 

[bostonfred]

If BF is going to make the blanket statement that anyone who spanks their child is a failure as a parent

I appreciate what youre saying, but i want to be clear that I explicitly did not say this. I said that spanking is a failure, but that every parent fails repeatedly every day. I said that spanking is a clear form of communication which might be preferable for parents who can't figure out another way to communicate. I did not say that parents who spank are failures as parents.I did say that jonessed was a bad parent, partly because he mocked me talking about my mentally ill brother, partly because he let a kid who had repeatedly shown an inability to avoid walking into traffic play close enough to the street that she came a foot from getting hit, and partly because his response was to hit her for it.

 

[[icon]]

Congress passes new law allowing strangers to hit other people's ####### kids in the supermarket

with belts?

One can only hope.

 

[Witz]

If BF is going to make the blanket statement that anyone who spanks their child is a failure as a parent

I appreciate what youre saying, but i want to be clear that I explicitly did not say this. I said that spanking is a failure, but that every parent fails repeatedly every day. I said that spanking is a clear form of communication which might be preferable for parents who can't figure out another way to communicate. I did not say that parents who spank are failures as parents.I did say that jonessed was a bad parent, partly because he mocked me talking about my mentally ill brother, partly because he let a kid who had repeatedly shown an inability to avoid walking into traffic play close enough to the street that she came a foot from getting hit, and partly because his response was to hit her for it.

Regarding your first set of comments - thanks for clarifying - even when I read it, I took to mean that you were saying that those who spank are failures as a parent. It's possible others took it that way as well but I understand what you were trying to say. Regarding your second set of comments - neither of you were being excellent to one another; not knowing jonessed from a hole in the wall, who knows what his situation is or where he lives - to go through the steps he did before finally resorting to spanking his kid doesn't make him a ####ty father as you said. Who knows if he lives on a main road or a side road - a road is a road and kids at a young age like to run around. Even being right there next to your child doesn't mean you are always going to be able to catch or stop them from going one way or another and to call out his parenting skills because of this one particular story doesn't do you justice.

 

[CrossEyed]

Can't imagine ever taking a belt to my son...for anything.

 

[jonessed]

The first and only time I spanked my daughter she was four years old and it was to stop the habit of running out in the street. She didn't do it in malice, it was really more of a game she played. We tried everything we could to get it to stop. We had short stern talks, long serious talks, took away toys, took away priveleges, after several weeks I resorted to slapping her hand, at first she laughed, so we went back to the other stuff. Nothing. So then I started slapping her hand hard enough for her to know I wasn't messing around. She still did it. Finally, she came within about a foot from my neighbor hitting her with his car and I grabbed her, walked her into the house, and spanked her bottom red. She stopped after that. It could have been the shock of almost getting hit by the car or it could have been the spanking, perhaps both. In a few years I'm sure she will better understand what a moving car can do to the human body. Until then I'm OK with fear of negative consequences dictating whether or not she runs out into the middle of the street. I love teaching my kids, but in order to teach them I have to make sure they are around to teach. Sometimes, if the slow, patient learning process isn't cutting it other measures have to be taken. Hopefully it's the last time I have to do it, but I wouldn't hesitate to do it again if I felt it was neccesary.

This post bothered me when I first read it, and I started to reply, but then I thought about it, and decided i didn't want to say anything offensive about someones parenting style. Then I saw your post that mocked my mention of my brother's mental illness, and your post calling gm out as unexcellent, and I realized that I've never liked you, and its worth mentioning that you're a ####ty parent, too.I mean that. You're not a good parent. Yours might be the worst story in a thread filled with bad stories. The funny thing is, your story about your four year old who had trouble staying out of the road probably sounds like a heroic parental intervention in your head, but what kind of ####pants parent let's their kid get a foot away from getting hit by a car in the frst place, let alone hitting their kid for it? You're not sure what fixed her more, how scared she got because you almost let her die, or the beating? Maybe you're a nice guy in real life, but between that, and poking fun at me mentioning my mentally ill brother, it sounds like you didn't learn half the lessons you think you're qualified to dole out. Good luck with your daughter. I hope she finds a mentor.

Right. I'm a bad parent because my daughter made a dart for the street and I didn't have a leash on her. That makes complete sense.I poked fun at linking your brother's mental illness to childhood spanking. As absurd as I find that, mental illness is not something that should be made fun of at all so I apologize for that comment.

 

[Nugget]

Are you suggesting that the best way to teach children not to hit people is by hitting them?

It worked in Wargames.

 

[belljr]

Can't imagine ever taking a belt to my son...for anything.

Not even if his pants are falling down?:attempttolightenthemood:

 

[CrossEyed]

Can't imagine ever taking a belt to my son...for anything.

Not even if his pants are falling down?:attempttolightenthemood:

OK, I chuckled.

 

[Nugget]

The first and only time I spanked my daughter she was four years old and it was to stop the habit of running out in the street. She didn't do it in malice, it was really more of a game she played. We tried everything we could to get it to stop. We had short stern talks, long serious talks, took away toys, took away priveleges, after several weeks I resorted to slapping her hand, at first she laughed, so we went back to the other stuff. Nothing. So then I started slapping her hand hard enough for her to know I wasn't messing around. She still did it. Finally, she came within about a foot from my neighbor hitting her with his car and I grabbed her, walked her into the house, and spanked her bottom red. She stopped after that. It could have been the shock of almost getting hit by the car or it could have been the spanking, perhaps both. In a few years I'm sure she will better understand what a moving car can do to the human body. Until then I'm OK with fear of negative consequences dictating whether or not she runs out into the middle of the street. I love teaching my kids, but in order to teach them I have to make sure they are around to teach. Sometimes, if the slow, patient learning process isn't cutting it other measures have to be taken. Hopefully it's the last time I have to do it, but I wouldn't hesitate to do it again if I felt it was neccesary.

This post bothered me when I first read it, and I started to reply, but then I thought about it, and decided i didn't want to say anything offensive about someones parenting style. Then I saw your post that mocked my mention of my brother's mental illness, and your post calling gm out as unexcellent, and I realized that I've never liked you, and its worth mentioning that you're a ####ty parent, too.I mean that. You're not a good parent. Yours might be the worst story in a thread filled with bad stories. The funny thing is, your story about your four year old who had trouble staying out of the road probably sounds like a heroic parental intervention in your head, but what kind of ####pants parent let's their kid get a foot away from getting hit by a car in the frst place, let alone hitting their kid for it? You're not sure what fixed her more, how scared she got because you almost let her die, or the beating? Maybe you're a nice guy in real life, but between that, and poking fun at me mentioning my mentally ill brother, it sounds like you didn't learn half the lessons you think you're qualified to dole out. Good luck with your daughter. I hope she finds a mentor.

BF - Couple questions:1. How far is it from your front porch to the street? 2. Are your children always within arms reach of you outside?3. How quick is the average 4 year old?4. What is your 40 time?Thanks,

 

[Pick]

Kid's don't have enough fear of parental consequences in their lives these days. Too many sackless I-am-my-kid's-friend parents out there. Kids need a father not a friend.

Having said that, physical violence should only be used until the kid can reason a bit. After that only in extreme situations. And never with an object like a belt.

Something to be said for giving the kid "the look".

 

[mad sweeney]

PUSIFICATION OF AMERICA

Now let's work on the spelling and punctuation of America!

 

[bostonfred]

BF - Couple questions:2. Are your children always within arms reach of you outside?

Whenever we are near traffic? Absolutely. I have a 35 foot driveway, give or take, and if it were much shorter, I wouldn't let my kid play in the front yard until they'd learned how.

 

[bostonfred]

I poked fun at linking your brother's mental illness to childhood spanking. As absurd as I find that, mental illness is not something that should be made fun of at all so I apologize for that comment.

I appreciate that and accept your apology. I hope you understand why I was upset and I apologize for lashing out. I've seen some really, really uncool posts recently on this board in other threads where I mentioned the mental health issues in my family and it was unfair of me to unload that on you. I don't know if there's a link between mental health and spanking. I know that if you asked my brother what cause his problems, he would point back to his relationship with our father, and specifically to my dad taking a belt to him for spilling his milk at the kitchen table. That isn't an exaggeration - it would be one of the first, if not the first, story he told. I know that my fathers father was an abusive alcoholic, and that my uncle will still tell you that he didn't cry when he died, almost 40 years later. He was also a belt/switch guy, not fists or monkey wrenches, but he definitely didn't spoil the child by sparing the rod. My dad has had alcohol abuse issues, and had a hard time breaking the cycle of spanking his kids. does that mean that spanking causes mental illness? No. But I've observed some linkage, and peer reviewed studies show a higher incident of mental illness in spanked populations than unspanked. So maybe its not as absurd as it sounds.

 

[jonessed]

I poked fun at linking your brother's mental illness to childhood spanking. As absurd as I find that, mental illness is not something that should be made fun of at all so I apologize for that comment.

I appreciate that and accept your apology. I hope you understand why I was upset and I apologize for lashing out. I've seen some really, really uncool posts recently on this board in other threads where I mentioned the mental health issues in my family and it was unfair of me to unload that on you. I don't know if there's a link between mental health and spanking. I know that if you asked my brother what cause his problems, he would point back to his relationship with our father, and specifically to my dad taking a belt to him for spilling his milk at the kitchen table. That isn't an exaggeration - it would be one of the first, if not the first, story he told. I know that my fathers father was an abusive alcoholic, and that my uncle will still tell you that he didn't cry when he died, almost 40 years later. He was also a belt/switch guy, not fists or monkey wrenches, but he definitely didn't spoil the child by sparing the rod. My dad has had alcohol abuse issues, and had a hard time breaking the cycle of spanking his kids. does that mean that spanking causes mental illness? No. But I've observed some linkage, and peer reviewed studies show a higher incident of mental illness in spanked populations than unspanked. So maybe its not as absurd as it sounds.

I actually tried to help you find resources in CA when you reached out on the board. You probably don't remember. I don't often agree with you, but mental illness is a pretty serious issue with me and I truly felt badly for poking fun.What your brother went through, Meno, cstu, myself, was child abuse. That can definitely cause mental illness, PTSD specifically, but a myriad of other things as well I imagine. I think conflating spanking with child abuse in the black and white manner being done in some cases here is actually making light of what child abuse truly is. I don't even believe in spanking, I couldn't imagine spanking with a belt. My experience with spanking my daughter I see as a one-time thing done more out of sheer shock and frustration than an effective form of punishment. I seem to have been put in a position defending it though. My daughter goes to school with kids from a low-income housing complex down the street. Some of her friends have parents that can't be bothered to even bathe them regularly. They would be blessed to have a father that cared about them even if it came with the occasional spanking.By the way, my daughters don't play in the front yard and even at arms length there is no way you can catch someone that suddenly decides to make a break for it. Unless you put your kids on a leash or never venture outdoors there isn't much you can do to prevent them from darting into a street or a parking lot.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Sure

how many kids you got?

For those that advocate beating their kids with a belt, please man up and tell us what your kids were beaten for? Id be interested to hear the last 2-3 times you used the belt and what the offenses were. Lots of tough guys on this board but not a lot of details and the devil is in the details.

It is odd that there are no examples coming forth of when anybody has personally needed to use a belt/paddle/etc on their kid, and what exactly they did wrong.

 

[jonessed]

Sure

how many kids you got?

For those that advocate beating their kids with a belt, please man up and tell us what your kids were beaten for? Id be interested to hear the last 2-3 times you used the belt and what the offenses were. Lots of tough guys on this board but not a lot of details and the devil is in the details.

It is odd that there are no examples coming forth of when anybody has personally needed to use a belt/paddle/etc on their kid, and what exactly they did wrong.

Has anyone here stated that they use a belt or a paddle on their child?

 

[parasaurolophus]

Sure

how many kids you got?

For those that advocate beating their kids with a belt, please man up and tell us what your kids were beaten for? Id be interested to hear the last 2-3 times you used the belt and what the offenses were. Lots of tough guys on this board but not a lot of details and the devil is in the details.

It is odd that there are no examples coming forth of when anybody has personally needed to use a belt/paddle/etc on their kid, and what exactly they did wrong.

Has anyone here stated that they use a belt or a paddle on their child?

Ok so take the belt out of it. What are some examples of where a FBG parent spanked their 8 year old child?What did they do? How many times had the situation presented itself? What other things had you tried?

 

[Native]

Sure

how many kids you got?

For those that advocate beating their kids with a belt, please man up and tell us what your kids were beaten for? Id be interested to hear the last 2-3 times you used the belt and what the offenses were. Lots of tough guys on this board but not a lot of details and the devil is in the details.

It is odd that there are no examples coming forth of when anybody has personally needed to use a belt/paddle/etc on their kid, and what exactly they did wrong.

Has anyone here stated that they use a belt or a paddle on their child?

Well considering more than 100 FBG's have advocated using a belt to beat a child in one scenario or another, I thought someone would step forward with an example.

 

[jonessed]

Sure

how many kids you got?

For those that advocate beating their kids with a belt, please man up and tell us what your kids were beaten for? Id be interested to hear the last 2-3 times you used the belt and what the offenses were. Lots of tough guys on this board but not a lot of details and the devil is in the details.

It is odd that there are no examples coming forth of when anybody has personally needed to use a belt/paddle/etc on their kid, and what exactly they did wrong.

Has anyone here stated that they use a belt or a paddle on their child?

Ok so take the belt out of it. What are some examples of where a FBG parent spanked their 8 year old child?What did they do? How many times had the situation presented itself? What other things had you tried?

I gave an example on my 4-year old.

 

[parasaurolophus]

Sure

how many kids you got?

For those that advocate beating their kids with a belt, please man up and tell us what your kids were beaten for? Id be interested to hear the last 2-3 times you used the belt and what the offenses were. Lots of tough guys on this board but not a lot of details and the devil is in the details.

It is odd that there are no examples coming forth of when anybody has personally needed to use a belt/paddle/etc on their kid, and what exactly they did wrong.

Has anyone here stated that they use a belt or a paddle on their child?

Ok so take the belt out of it. What are some examples of where a FBG parent spanked their 8 year old child?What did they do? How many times had the situation presented itself? What other things had you tried?

I gave an example on my 4-year old.

I remember, I replied to your post iirc.

 

[StrikeS2k]

Sure

how many kids you got?

For those that advocate beating their kids with a belt, please man up and tell us what your kids were beaten for? Id be interested to hear the last 2-3 times you used the belt and what the offenses were. Lots of tough guys on this board but not a lot of details and the devil is in the details.

It is odd that there are no examples coming forth of when anybody has personally needed to use a belt/paddle/etc on their kid, and what exactly they did wrong.

Has anyone here stated that they use a belt or a paddle on their child?

Well considering more than 100 FBG's have advocated using a belt to beat a child in one scenario or another, I thought someone would step forward with an example.

The bulk of this discussion has been on the merits/problems with spanking. Specific utensils have not really been mentioned and I'd bet that if you had a sub poll of those who aren't opposed to spanking regarding what they'd use for it the bulk would just say use the hand. I suspect in today's day and age most people who spank appropriately don't use anything other than their hand.

 

[Froglova]

Is this where you come to tell everyone you know the best parenting tactics for other peoples children?

 

[Native]

Sure

how many kids you got?

For those that advocate beating their kids with a belt, please man up and tell us what your kids were beaten for? Id be interested to hear the last 2-3 times you used the belt and what the offenses were. Lots of tough guys on this board but not a lot of details and the devil is in the details.

It is odd that there are no examples coming forth of when anybody has personally needed to use a belt/paddle/etc on their kid, and what exactly they did wrong.

Has anyone here stated that they use a belt or a paddle on their child?

Well considering more than 100 FBG's have advocated using a belt to beat a child in one scenario or another, I thought someone would step forward with an example.

The bulk of this discussion has been on the merits/problems with spanking. Specific utensils have not really been mentioned and I'd bet that if you had a sub poll of those who aren't opposed to spanking regarding what they'd use for it the bulk would just say use the hand. I suspect in today's day and age most people who spank appropriately don't use anything other than their hand.

I agree with you and would be inclined to think the same thing about people not using anything other than their hand. Except that when you read the poll question, it clearly calls out a "belt" or "other object". Anyway, not beating a dead horse with this thing any longer. Interesting discussion.

 

[Apple Jack]

Would throwing them in the wood chipper be considered "excessive?" How about a tire iron to the knee? We can put a pin in those two and just go with hot coat hanger for now until we get clarity on acceptable behavior in the 21st century.

 

[StrikeS2k]

The bulk of this discussion has been on the merits/problems with spanking. Specific utensils have not really been mentioned and I'd bet that if you had a sub poll of those who aren't opposed to spanking regarding what they'd use for it the bulk would just say use the hand. I suspect in today's day and age most people who spank appropriately don't use anything other than their hand.

I agree with you and would be inclined to think the same thing about people not using anything other than their hand. Except that when you read the poll question, it clearly calls out a "belt" or "other object". Anyway, not beating a dead horse with this thing any longer. Interesting discussion.

Sure but the poll question was "is it acceptable", not " would you personally do it." I voted acceptable but it's not something I think I would do. But, just like a spanking with the hand if the situation warranted it I could understand if someone else felt obligated to do so. Given all of that, I can't give a specific example of when I would or wouldn't use a utensil other than the hand and I suspect the same is true of most others. It's acceptable but they haven't done it so can't give examples. I think the people trying to turn the concept of spanking as discipline in to some type of beating children scenario are looking for the worst possible outcome instead of trying to understand what people such as myself mean when we say spanking can be appropriate in certain situations.

 

[NewlyRetired]

The bulk of this discussion has been on the merits/problems with spanking. Specific utensils have not really been mentioned and I'd bet that if you had a sub poll of those who aren't opposed to spanking regarding what they'd use for it the bulk would just say use the hand. I suspect in today's day and age most people who spank appropriately don't use anything other than their hand.

I agree with you and would be inclined to think the same thing about people not using anything other than their hand. Except that when you read the poll question, it clearly calls out a "belt" or "other object". Anyway, not beating a dead horse with this thing any longer. Interesting discussion.

Sure but the poll question was "is it acceptable", not " would you personally do it." I voted acceptable but it's not something I think I would do. But, just like a spanking with the hand if the situation warranted it I could understand if someone else felt obligated to do so. Given all of that, I can't give a specific example of when I would or wouldn't use a utensil other than the hand and I suspect the same is true of most others. It's acceptable but they haven't done it so can't give examples. I think the people trying to turn the concept of spanking as discipline in to some type of beating children scenario are looking for the worst possible outcome instead of trying to understand what people such as myself mean when we say spanking can be appropriate in certain situations.

I can honestly see a parent needing to spank a child with their open hand who needs discipline if other methods don't work. In no case should a weapon ever be used IMO (please stop calling it a utensil, he is not attacking the kid with a spoon).

 

[NewlyRetired]

Sure

how many kids you got?

For those that advocate beating their kids with a belt, please man up and tell us what your kids were beaten for? Id be interested to hear the last 2-3 times you used the belt and what the offenses were. Lots of tough guys on this board but not a lot of details and the devil is in the details.

It is odd that there are no examples coming forth of when anybody has personally needed to use a belt/paddle/etc on their kid, and what exactly they did wrong.

Has anyone here stated that they use a belt or a paddle on their child?

Well considering more than 100 FBG's have advocated using a belt to beat a child in one scenario or another, I thought someone would step forward with an example.

It is a shame the original poll was not more clear. I think many of us make a clear distinction between an open hand smack on the butt and using a weapon or object to inflict pain. We also have have no idea how many of the 100 who said "yeah, hit him with an object is sometimes acceptable" even have kids of their own. Whether people like it or not, some opinions will change once you have a kid of your own.

 

[Christo]

The bulk of this discussion has been on the merits/problems with spanking. Specific utensils have not really been mentioned and I'd bet that if you had a sub poll of those who aren't opposed to spanking regarding what they'd use for it the bulk would just say use the hand. I suspect in today's day and age most people who spank appropriately don't use anything other than their hand.

I agree with you and would be inclined to think the same thing about people not using anything other than their hand. Except that when you read the poll question, it clearly calls out a "belt" or "other object". Anyway, not beating a dead horse with this thing any longer. Interesting discussion.

Sure but the poll question was "is it acceptable", not " would you personally do it." I voted acceptable but it's not something I think I would do. But, just like a spanking with the hand if the situation warranted it I could understand if someone else felt obligated to do so. Given all of that, I can't give a specific example of when I would or wouldn't use a utensil other than the hand and I suspect the same is true of most others. It's acceptable but they haven't done it so can't give examples. I think the people trying to turn the concept of spanking as discipline in to some type of beating children scenario are looking for the worst possible outcome instead of trying to understand what people such as myself mean when we say spanking can be appropriate in certain situations.

I can honestly see a parent needing to spank a child with their open hand who needs discipline if other methods don't work. In no case should a weapon ever be used IMO (please stop calling it a utensil, he is not attacking the kid with a spoon).

You calling it a weapon is no more correct than calling it a utensil.

 

[Christo]

Sure

how many kids you got?

For those that advocate beating their kids with a belt, please man up and tell us what your kids were beaten for? Id be interested to hear the last 2-3 times you used the belt and what the offenses were. Lots of tough guys on this board but not a lot of details and the devil is in the details.

It is odd that there are no examples coming forth of when anybody has personally needed to use a belt/paddle/etc on their kid, and what exactly they did wrong.

Has anyone here stated that they use a belt or a paddle on their child?

Well considering more than 100 FBG's have advocated using a belt to beat a child in one scenario or another, I thought someone would step forward with an example.

It is a shame the original poll was not more clear. I think many of us make a clear distinction between an open hand smack on the butt and using a weapon or object to inflict pain. We also have have no idea how many of the 100 who said "yeah, hit him with an object is sometimes acceptable" even have kids of their own. Whether people like it or not, some opinions will change once you have a kid of your own.

So what? Opinions change for all sorts of reasons all of the time. Maybe the parents who are against it right now would change their minds if their kid did something so bad that up until this point in time they haven't imagined their kid capable of doing it.

 

[AAABatteries]

I've seen how well timeouts work around this place. I'm going to have to side with those who spank and hope that Joe implements FBG beatdowns from now on.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

The bulk of this discussion has been on the merits/problems with spanking. Specific utensils have not really been mentioned and I'd bet that if you had a sub poll of those who aren't opposed to spanking regarding what they'd use for it the bulk would just say use the hand. I suspect in today's day and age most people who spank appropriately don't use anything other than their hand.

I agree with you and would be inclined to think the same thing about people not using anything other than their hand. Except that when you read the poll question, it clearly calls out a "belt" or "other object". Anyway, not beating a dead horse with this thing any longer. Interesting discussion.

Sure but the poll question was "is it acceptable", not " would you personally do it." I voted acceptable but it's not something I think I would do. But, just like a spanking with the hand if the situation warranted it I could understand if someone else felt obligated to do so. Given all of that, I can't give a specific example of when I would or wouldn't use a utensil other than the hand and I suspect the same is true of most others. It's acceptable but they haven't done it so can't give examples. I think the people trying to turn the concept of spanking as discipline in to some type of beating children scenario are looking for the worst possible outcome instead of trying to understand what people such as myself mean when we say spanking can be appropriate in certain situations.

I can honestly see a parent needing to spank a child with their open hand who needs discipline if other methods don't work. In no case should a weapon ever be used IMO (please stop calling it a utensil, he is not attacking the kid with a spoon).

You calling it a weapon is no more correct than calling it a utensil.

once you pick something up and hit someone with it, it then becomes a weapon

 

[Christo]

The bulk of this discussion has been on the merits/problems with spanking. Specific utensils have not really been mentioned and I'd bet that if you had a sub poll of those who aren't opposed to spanking regarding what they'd use for it the bulk would just say use the hand. I suspect in today's day and age most people who spank appropriately don't use anything other than their hand.

I agree with you and would be inclined to think the same thing about people not using anything other than their hand. Except that when you read the poll question, it clearly calls out a "belt" or "other object". Anyway, not beating a dead horse with this thing any longer. Interesting discussion.

Sure but the poll question was "is it acceptable", not " would you personally do it." I voted acceptable but it's not something I think I would do. But, just like a spanking with the hand if the situation warranted it I could understand if someone else felt obligated to do so. Given all of that, I can't give a specific example of when I would or wouldn't use a utensil other than the hand and I suspect the same is true of most others. It's acceptable but they haven't done it so can't give examples. I think the people trying to turn the concept of spanking as discipline in to some type of beating children scenario are looking for the worst possible outcome instead of trying to understand what people such as myself mean when we say spanking can be appropriate in certain situations.

I can honestly see a parent needing to spank a child with their open hand who needs discipline if other methods don't work. In no case should a weapon ever be used IMO (please stop calling it a utensil, he is not attacking the kid with a spoon).

You calling it a weapon is no more correct than calling it a utensil.

once you pick something up and hit someone with it, it then becomes a weapon

And a utensil is a useful tool.

 

[Witz]

The bulk of this discussion has been on the merits/problems with spanking. Specific utensils have not really been mentioned and I'd bet that if you had a sub poll of those who aren't opposed to spanking regarding what they'd use for it the bulk would just say use the hand. I suspect in today's day and age most people who spank appropriately don't use anything other than their hand.

I agree with you and would be inclined to think the same thing about people not using anything other than their hand. Except that when you read the poll question, it clearly calls out a "belt" or "other object". Anyway, not beating a dead horse with this thing any longer. Interesting discussion.

Sure but the poll question was "is it acceptable", not " would you personally do it." I voted acceptable but it's not something I think I would do. But, just like a spanking with the hand if the situation warranted it I could understand if someone else felt obligated to do so. Given all of that, I can't give a specific example of when I would or wouldn't use a utensil other than the hand and I suspect the same is true of most others. It's acceptable but they haven't done it so can't give examples. I think the people trying to turn the concept of spanking as discipline in to some type of beating children scenario are looking for the worst possible outcome instead of trying to understand what people such as myself mean when we say spanking can be appropriate in certain situations.

I can honestly see a parent needing to spank a child with their open hand who needs discipline if other methods don't work. In no case should a weapon ever be used IMO (please stop calling it a utensil, he is not attacking the kid with a spoon).

You calling it a weapon is no more correct than calling it a utensil.

once you pick something up and hit someone with it, it then becomes a weapon

Excuse me sir, do you have a license for that pillow?

 

[bakes]

Congress passes new law allowing strangers to hit other people's ####### kids in the supermarket

with belts?

Baked goods. Weapon of choice = day old baguette.

 

[Wrigley]

The bulk of this discussion has been on the merits/problems with spanking. Specific utensils have not really been mentioned and I'd bet that if you had a sub poll of those who aren't opposed to spanking regarding what they'd use for it the bulk would just say use the hand. I suspect in today's day and age most people who spank appropriately don't use anything other than their hand.

I agree with you and would be inclined to think the same thing about people not using anything other than their hand. Except that when you read the poll question, it clearly calls out a "belt" or "other object". Anyway, not beating a dead horse with this thing any longer. Interesting discussion.

Sure but the poll question was "is it acceptable", not " would you personally do it." I voted acceptable but it's not something I think I would do. But, just like a spanking with the hand if the situation warranted it I could understand if someone else felt obligated to do so. Given all of that, I can't give a specific example of when I would or wouldn't use a utensil other than the hand and I suspect the same is true of most others. It's acceptable but they haven't done it so can't give examples. I think the people trying to turn the concept of spanking as discipline in to some type of beating children scenario are looking for the worst possible outcome instead of trying to understand what people such as myself mean when we say spanking can be appropriate in certain situations.

I can honestly see a parent needing to spank a child with their open hand who needs discipline if other methods don't work. In no case should a weapon ever be used IMO (please stop calling it a utensil, he is not attacking the kid with a spoon).

You calling it a weapon is no more correct than calling it a utensil.

once you pick something up and hit someone with it, it then becomes a weapon

Excuse me sir, do you have a license for that pillow?

The Humanity

 

[KarmaPolice]

I'm with others in here saying that there is a large grey area and people making it into a black and white issue are coming off as pretty foolish. Swat on the ### with an open hand.... a nice whack or two with the leather part of a belt.... none of these things are going to leave bruises or seriously harm a child when used very sparingly in extreme circumstances. I also think it's a bit naive to think that all kids are going to be 100% functional/healthy mentally. This is not in reference to BF's brother, but more of a general statement. I have no doubts that some kids have issues due to repeated beatings...particularly severe ones. Those are not cool at all. However in my non-shrink-degree-backed opinion (based on common sense more than anything)...if a kid is going to develop mental issues from a once-in-a-blue-moon swat on the ### or slap with a belt... those issues were already there and were going to manifest via some other life experience.

I agree that this thread has gotten silly, but what do you expect around here? It's stupid to think that any swat is abuse, and it's stupid for the other players to assume that parents who don't spank their kids are also against any form of punishment and their kids are walking all over them, and this is the cause of all the annoying kids you see out and about. Personally, I am a little more in the grey - I have not had to do it thankfully, but I can understand the urge for a swat on the ### if the kid is doing something that is going to cause them harm. I don't agree with it, but that I can "get". You slapped your kids hand because they were reaching for a pot of boiling water? You gave them a reflex swat as they were running into traffic? These actions don't make you an abuser and are not going to cause your child severe mental anguish. What this poll is asking and what I start having a lot of problems with personally is having to use a belt or object. That is what I can't get behind or understand - that takes premeditation and I think you should be able to calm down enough and think of something that would be just as effective (IMO more so) and "get the kid where it hurts". I just can't imagine as a parent sending my 5yo to his bedroom and coming in later to implement his punishment with a belt (or even a spanking at that point). For the posts that were honestly asking about alternatives - we used the "love and logic" method for the most part. It was a slight bastardization of it, but we had great success with it, so we kept using it. As another post stated, it isn't easy because you have to be willing to stop at the drop of a hat if the kid is doing something that isn't acceptable. Most importantly, you have to follow up right away if you ask them to knock it off, and sometimes the kid doesn't even get a warning. We have walked out of a theater after only about 20mins of a movie, left a cart of groceries in the store and walked out, etc. But it's all about letting them know they are making the choices that cause these actions and helping them make the right ones. The technique was actually fun for everybody, but you have to follow up and give praise for good choices, which a lot of parents seem to have problems with. IMO the problem that I see a lot of parents struggle with is letting it ramp up too much and it gets to the point that they are yelling and mad - nothing good comes from that. I see this all the time in the store - parents are telling their kids 10 times to stop doing something, doing the stupid "count to three" thing without anything happening, etc mostly because they want a movie themselves and don't want to come back. Meanwhile, the kids know damn well that they can act how they want, might get yelled a bit, but ultimately still get what they came for. The first couple times I went with my son I showed him where to pick out a movie, and how many he could get. The second time he started grabbing whatever and I just calmly said something like "I guess you are choosing not to get any movies today" put the movies down and left with him. Do stuff like that while praising them when they are good and make a good choice, and after awhile they know what is expected of them. He knows that if I say "stop that, or X is going to happen" that X is actually going to happen. His triggers are the Wii and sports, so that is what we would take away most of the time. I have a laid back, confident, well behaved kid. Some of that is his nature I bet, but I think a lot has to do with how we chose to treat him. I guess I will have to report back in 5-6 years if we decide to have another, but parents that I have met who use similar techniques have kids who are also well behaved. It's all about consistency, following through, and letting them make a lot of choices. It has nothing to do with using your hand or a belt.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

The bulk of this discussion has been on the merits/problems with spanking. Specific utensils have not really been mentioned and I'd bet that if you had a sub poll of those who aren't opposed to spanking regarding what they'd use for it the bulk would just say use the hand. I suspect in today's day and age most people who spank appropriately don't use anything other than their hand.

I agree with you and would be inclined to think the same thing about people not using anything other than their hand. Except that when you read the poll question, it clearly calls out a "belt" or "other object". Anyway, not beating a dead horse with this thing any longer. Interesting discussion.

Sure but the poll question was "is it acceptable", not " would you personally do it." I voted acceptable but it's not something I think I would do. But, just like a spanking with the hand if the situation warranted it I could understand if someone else felt obligated to do so. Given all of that, I can't give a specific example of when I would or wouldn't use a utensil other than the hand and I suspect the same is true of most others. It's acceptable but they haven't done it so can't give examples. I think the people trying to turn the concept of spanking as discipline in to some type of beating children scenario are looking for the worst possible outcome instead of trying to understand what people such as myself mean when we say spanking can be appropriate in certain situations.

I can honestly see a parent needing to spank a child with their open hand who needs discipline if other methods don't work. In no case should a weapon ever be used IMO (please stop calling it a utensil, he is not attacking the kid with a spoon).

You calling it a weapon is no more correct than calling it a utensil.

once you pick something up and hit someone with it, it then becomes a weapon

Excuse me sir, do you have a license for that pillow?

The Humanity

hence the term ''pillow fight''

 

[gianmarco]

I'm with others in here saying that there is a large grey area and people making it into a black and white issue are coming off as pretty foolish. Swat on the ### with an open hand.... a nice whack or two with the leather part of a belt.... none of these things are going to leave bruises or seriously harm a child when used very sparingly in extreme circumstances.

I also think it's a bit naive to think that all kids are going to be 100% functional/healthy mentally. This is not in reference to BF's brother, but more of a general statement. I have no doubts that some kids have issues due to repeated beatings...particularly severe ones. Those are not cool at all. However in my non-shrink-degree-backed opinion (based on common sense more than anything)...if a kid is going to develop mental issues from a once-in-a-blue-moon swat on the ### or slap with a belt... those issues were already there and were going to manifest via some other life experience.

I agree that this thread has gotten silly, but what do you expect around here? It's stupid to think that any swat is abuse, and it's stupid for the other players to assume that parents who don't spank their kids are also against any form of punishment and their kids are walking all over them, and this is the cause of all the annoying kids you see out and about. Personally, I am a little more in the grey - I have not had to do it thankfully, but I can understand the urge for a swat on the ### if the kid is doing something that is going to cause them harm. I don't agree with it, but that I can "get". You slapped your kids hand because they were reaching for a pot of boiling water? You gave them a reflex swat as they were running into traffic? These actions don't make you an abuser and are not going to cause your child severe mental anguish.

What this poll is asking and what I start having a lot of problems with personally is having to use a belt or object. That is what I can't get behind or understand - that takes premeditation and I think you should be able to calm down enough and think of something that would be just as effective (IMO more so) and "get the kid where it hurts". I just can't imagine as a parent sending my 5yo to his bedroom and coming in later to implement his punishment with a belt (or even a spanking at that point).

For the posts that were honestly asking about alternatives - we used the "love and logic" method for the most part. It was a slight bastardization of it, but we had great success with it, so we kept using it. As another post stated, it isn't easy because you have to be willing to stop at the drop of a hat if the kid is doing something that isn't acceptable. Most importantly, you have to follow up right away if you ask them to knock it off, and sometimes the kid doesn't even get a warning. We have walked out of a theater after only about 20mins of a movie, left a cart of groceries in the store and walked out, etc. But it's all about letting them know they are making the choices that cause these actions and helping them make the right ones. The technique was actually fun for everybody, but you have to follow up and give praise for good choices, which a lot of parents seem to have problems with.

IMO the problem that I see a lot of parents struggle with is letting it ramp up too much and it gets to the point that they are yelling and mad - nothing good comes from that. I see this all the time in the store - parents are telling their kids 10 times to stop doing something, doing the stupid "count to three" thing without anything happening, etc mostly because they want a movie themselves and don't want to come back. Meanwhile, the kids know damn well that they can act how they want, might get yelled a bit, but ultimately still get what they came for. The first couple times I went with my son I showed him where to pick out a movie, and how many he could get. The second time he started grabbing whatever and I just calmly said something like "I guess you are choosing not to get any movies today" put the movies down and left with him. Do stuff like that while praising them when they are good and make a good choice, and after awhile they know what is expected of them. He knows that if I say "stop that, or X is going to happen" that X is actually going to happen. His triggers are the Wii and sports, so that is what we would take away most of the time.

I have a laid back, confident, well behaved kid. Some of that is his nature I bet, but I think a lot has to do with how we chose to treat him. I guess I will have to report back in 5-6 years if we decide to have another, but parents that I have met who use similar techniques have kids who are also well behaved. It's all about consistency, following through, and letting them make a lot of choices. It has nothing to do with using your hand or a belt.

I could have written this post myself as this is 100% how I feel and how I am with my son. Particularly the bolded portion is what I don't get and was the point of this thread. I find it interesting that, despite 50% answering that they're ok with a belt, not one poster has come in and described that they do it with their kid.

 

[bakes]

I have a laid back, confident, well behaved kid. Some of that is his nature I bet, but I think a lot has to do with how we chose to treat him. I guess I will have to report back in 5-6 years if we decide to have another, but parents that I have met who use similar techniques have kids who are also well behaved. It's all about consistency, following through, and letting them make a lot of choices. It has nothing to do with using your hand or a belt.

Mine are 11 (girl) and 13 (boy) and somehow seem to be succeeding in school and with friends despite my best efforts to *cough* p***ify them.

 

[KarmaPolice]

I could have written this post myself as this is 100% how I feel and how I am with my son. Particularly the bolded portion is what I don't get and was the point of this thread. I find it interesting that, despite 50% answering that they're ok with a belt, not one poster has come in and described that they do it with their kid.

I guess I am hoping that most of it is that people are OK with the concept of using a belt, maybe since something similar was used with them and they turned out fine. Either they haven't had to use something yet, or they have chosen not to do that with their kids but aren't against other parents using it.

 

[parasaurolophus]

I could have written this post myself as this is 100% how I feel and how I am with my son. Particularly the bolded portion is what I don't get and was the point of this thread. I find it interesting that, despite 50% answering that they're ok with a belt, not one poster has come in and described that they do it with their kid.

I guess I am hoping that most of it is that people are OK with the concept of using a belt, maybe since something similar was used with them and they turned out fine. Either they haven't had to use something yet, or they have chosen not to do that with their kids but aren't against other parents using it.

Or maybe it is the half that doesn't have kids

 

[Bigboy10182000]

I could have written this post myself as this is 100% how I feel and how I am with my son. Particularly the bolded portion is what I don't get and was the point of this thread. I find it interesting that, despite 50% answering that they're ok with a belt, not one poster has come in and described that they do it with their kid.

I guess I am hoping that most of it is that people are OK with the concept of using a belt, maybe since something similar was used with them and they turned out fine. Either they haven't had to use something yet, or they have chosen not to do that with their kids but aren't against other parents using it.

Or maybe it is the half that doesn't have kids

FWIW, I voted in favor because of what KarmaPolice said...

 

[belljr]

Have kids, voted yes but we chose to not do it.

So basically, I have no issues with it as a form of punishment in some instances, same as a spanking.

 

[gianmarco]

Have kids, voted yes but we chose to not do it.

So basically, I have no issues with it as a form of punishment in some instances, same as a spanking.

This is the part I don't understand. I don't think it's the same as a spanking at all.

 

[belljr]

Have kids, voted yes but we chose to not do it.

So basically, I have no issues with it as a form of punishment in some instances, same as a spanking.

This is the part I don't understand. I don't think it's the same as a spanking at all.

How is it different? We chose to not do that with our kids (more my wife's doing )How is a belt 1 or 2 times on the bottom different than a hand spanking...

As I spoke from when I was a child if I really ####ed up, like got caught playing with matches ####ed up, I got the belt. My parents only had to do this one or 2 times to me and then the "threat" was always there. It's not like I spilled milk " GET THE BELT OUT"