Is it ever ok to use a belt to discipline your child? (1 Viewer)

[greenroom]

Spanking is a failure of parenting. Hitting a kid with a belt is an even bigger failure. You're using violence to communicate because you've failed to communicate in other ways, or worse, you never tried. Some parents arent skilled at communicating, though, and violence is a very clear kind of communication. It might work better than YOUR alternatives, even if it doesn't work better than ALL of the alternatives.

I don't spank my kid, but I fail as a parent in plenty of other ways. I try to fix those areas, as I would hope most parents would.

I don't think spanking is child abuse, but I do think some kids carry emotional baggage from it. If it makes them question themselves and how their parents could hit them, or teaches them to avoid punishment instead of doing the right thing to do the right thing, or leaves them with shame, it does cause damage.

Lastly, just because the kid fixes the behavior that caused the problem, doesn't meant the spanking worked. You're giving the kid a strong negative reinforcement right now, but asking them to fill in the blanks themselves as to why they shouldn't have done what they did. Its a bandaid. And if you explain it after the spanking, what have you done differently than someone who explained it before the spanking?

From a personal standpoint, I was not hit by a belt. My brother was. It caused huge problems for him, he had low self esteem, and is now mentally ill with father issues. So my experience with spanking has been all negative. But I have seen plenty of kids who were spanked and turned out all right. Its not the end all be all of parenting failure, but I can't understand why someone would plan to become a spanking parent.

I am sorry about your brother, however I am 100% sure that there is more to the story of your brother than just a spanking by a belt.However, one thing that is overlooked is the verbal abuse that parents do. I know parents that do not spank their children, yet will verbally abuse and that leaves more scars than a simple spanking.

 

[parasaurolophus]

what are your guy's thoughts on chores as a punishment? I have used oddball ones like grout cleaning or frustrating ones like weed pulling. I have found they work great, but have heard arguments against. thoughts?

I made the mistake a few times of using reading time as a punishment. He hated doing it for school, so I knew it would be something that would make him regret his actions. I didn't really think it through though. I witnessed a friend of mine using food as a reward/punishment and I thought jesus, I am doing the same thing with the reading. Luckily I have been able to win him over to reading as a fun option.

 

[The Commish]

All appropriate forms of discipline should be on the table for use. Used appropriately the can all be effective. That includes the monkey wrench.

Only when teaching them the 5 D's of dodge ball.

 

[belljr]

what are your guy's thoughts on chores as a punishment? I have used oddball ones like grout cleaning or frustrating ones like weed pulling. I have found they work great, but have heard arguments against. thoughts?

I made the mistake a few times of using reading time as a punishment. He hated doing it for school, so I knew it would be something that would make him regret his actions. I didn't really think it through though. I witnessed a friend of mine using food as a reward/punishment and I thought jesus, I am doing the same thing with the reading. Luckily I have been able to win him over to reading as a fun option.

Never tried it but it may be an option so his siblings can go to the ball.Seriously, not sure, but I think having to sweep out and clean the garage is a solid punishment plus I won't have to do it. The problem then arises when the child should be doing chores and you don't want to relate all chores as a punishment, I guess

 

[bostonfred]

I am sorry about your brother, however I am 100% sure that there is more to the story of your brother than just a spanking by a belt.However, one thing that is overlooked is the verbal abuse that parents do. I know parents that do not spank their children, yet will verbally abuse and that leaves more scars than a simple spanking.

Absolutely. This is not the only issue, and I hope my dad doesn't blame himself for my brothers illness. But I do know that the self esteem issues were there long before the illness set in, and from talking to my brother from an early age, i know that the spanking hurt the self esteem, and I know that his self esteem problems played in to other problems, possibly including his illness. I also agree that verbal abuse did the same thing. My fathers father was an abusive alcoholic, and he treated my older brother the only way he'd ever learned how. Again, I was fortunate in that my brother took the brunt of my dads learning curve. a loud "no" doesn't hurt your self esteem. But what you say to your kids can have a profound effect.

 

[bostonfred]

what are your guy's thoughts on chores as a punishment? I have used oddball ones like grout cleaning or frustrating ones like weed pulling. I have found they work great, but have heard arguments against. thoughts?

I made the mistake a few times of using reading time as a punishment. He hated doing it for school, so I knew it would be something that would make him regret his actions. I didn't really think it through though. I witnessed a friend of mine using food as a reward/punishment and I thought jesus, I am doing the same thing with the reading. Luckily I have been able to win him over to reading as a fun option.

Never tried it but it may be an option so his siblings can go to the ball.Seriously, not sure, but I think having to sweep out and clean the garage is a solid punishment plus I won't have to do it. The problem then arises when the child should be doing chores and you don't want to relate all chores as a punishment, I guess

You need to be consistent with a message like this:

Chores are not a punishment.

Chores are mandatory if you want your allowance.

If you screw up, you have to do more chores to get your allowance.

 

[trogg78]

I do not spank my children. I will give them a good wack on the bottom for a "job well done!"

 

[Flying V]

I got spanked a lot growing up, and when dad would use the belt, I remember thinking "The old man must be getting weak. Why else would he need a belt to inflict the desired amount of pain on me?"

 

[gianmarco]

Split right down the middle with 50% for and 50% against. I'm pretty shocked with these results.

 

[doowain]

There is a reason a large number of children are growing up these days with no backbone and no sense of discipline. A generation of pansies is being bred.

As long as it isn't excessive, I see nothing wrong with using a belt on your child. You can discipline with love. In fact, I think using your hand is more heinous than a belt. At least the belt detaches you from being the "abuser". They associate the belt with discipline. Not your hand. And, truthfully, I don't remember any times I was spanked with a belt that it sticks out in my mind. Really, it's the anticipation of it that is the most painful. Not the actual "belting".

I swear. This world is full of hypocritical know-it-alls. Everyone wants to tell everyone else how they should raise their children. It's silly. Maybe pay a little more attention in your own home and stop trying to solve the world's "problems".

And while we are on the subject of parents coddling and being overprotective of their children; Do you really need to drive to the bus stop and sit in the car with them while the bus pulls up and comes to a complete stop? Seriously? I used to have to walk 1/2 a mile to my bus stop with my younger brother in the 2nd grade. We'd ride our bikes to school over a mile away in the 4th grade. I understand you want your children to be safe, but stop making them SO AFRAID of the world. Jesus.

FWIW, I don't have children yet, so this is an unbiased opinion.

 

[bostonfred]

there are lots of ways to raise strong, independent children. Hitting them with a belt and making them ride bikes to school might do just that. That doesn't mean its the best way. Having the kids ride their bikes to school, once they're old enough to understand how to ride safely, avoid strangers, etc., is a great way for them to learn. I can't say the same about spanking.

 

[Mr. Know-It-All]

One time when I was about 10 or so, my aunt got so mad at my brother and I that she attempted to spank us with on of those blue AVon brushes. She started on him and snapped the damn thing in half on her first swing - we were laughing so freaking hard after that so she moved on to a yard stick, broke that too. She gave up after that. Good times.

 

[shader]

As always, people here over-react.

I think spanking is a fine tool in the arsenal of discipline. I grew up in rural Tennessee, and though I never considered myself a country boy (came from the city), the paddle was heavily used both in school and at home, and people were fine.

I personally have never even considered grabbing a switch, belt or paddle for my kids and probably never will. But a hand-slap when appropriate is certainly used, especially on my son who is 3 and is a challenge. A spanking is literally the only thing that will get his attention. But it is never done in a mean way, I doubt he feels it for more than 5 seconds, I leave no lasting marks, and it gets his attention.

My daughter is 7 and I haven't had to spank her in 2 years, and don't think I could anymore. The last time I did, she had pulled a tantrum that was right out of the "brattiest kid you've ever seen at Walmart" collection. I have never seen her act that way before, and we made our point in a number of ways. The spanking was barely felt, (my wife says I just tap), but my daughter was devastated. Then we followed it with her coming up with "house rules", loss of privileges and other things. She has never approached that level of brattiness again.

Now if I had just worn her out with a belt, would that have been as effective? Possibly. But possibly not.

I think discipline should have all sorts of different tries. I agree that just using the belt all the time is lazy parenting. But I don't think actually using it is bad, assuming it's used correctly.

I don't agree with using a belt/paddle on a bare backside. Anything that leaves welps or lasting harm seems far too harsh to me. But I recognize that is my personal opinion, and others might have different ones.

I doubt anyone that has been disciplined "properly" with spankings has ever had any lasting damage. But the line to abuse can be a cloudy one, and if a parent has a temper, they should be really careful with whippings.

Lastly, I echo the point another poster made about verbal abuse. I think the verbal abuse that often accompanied by physical abuse or maybe just a normal spanking is ten times worse. Telling a kid they are lazy, worthless, stupid, can scar them for life.

 

[[icon]]

PUSIFICATION OF AMERICA

 

[James Daulton]

I'd bet that if you looked at the use of corporal punishment by econonic and educational strata, you'd see a significant over-representation on the lower end of both indicators. I will look for some studies.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Is there an age issue involved? For example, I'm not sure if you can reason with a three year old. On the other hand, maybe a kid that young won't even be able to connect the bad behavior with the spanking. Is there an age where this is more or less advised?

 

[cstu]

There is a reason a large number of children are growing up these days with no backbone and no sense of discipline. A generation of pansies is being bred.

As long as it isn't excessive, I see nothing wrong with using a belt on your child. You can discipline with love. In fact, I think using your hand is more heinous than a belt. At least the belt detaches you from being the "abuser". They associate the belt with discipline. Not your hand. And, truthfully, I don't remember any times I was spanked with a belt that it sticks out in my mind. Really, it's the anticipation of it that is the most painful. Not the actual "belting".

I swear. This world is full of hypocritical know-it-alls. Everyone wants to tell everyone else how they should raise their children. It's silly. Maybe pay a little more attention in your own home and stop trying to solve the world's "problems".

And while we are on the subject of parents coddling and being overprotective of their children; Do you really need to drive to the bus stop and sit in the car with them while the bus pulls up and comes to a complete stop? Seriously? I used to have to walk 1/2 a mile to my bus stop with my younger brother in the 2nd grade. We'd ride our bikes to school over a mile away in the 4th grade. I understand you want your children to be safe, but stop making them SO AFRAID of the world. Jesus.

FWIW, I don't have children yet, so this is an unbiased opinion.

Nothing makes a kid feel more loved than having the person they trust the most in the world causing them physical pain.

 

[[icon]]

I like the contrast of fred's well thought out, well written post with this drivel

Liberal pantywaists... Nothing wrong with taking a belt to a kids ### for gettig out of line. It's certainly not a felony. Excessive for dropping a ball? Sure! But as a course of discipline I fully intend to have the belt in my arsenal when raising my kids.

Bite your tongue hippie.

 

[NewlyRetired]

There is a reason a large number of children are growing up these days with no backbone and no sense of discipline. A generation of pansies is being bred.

As long as it isn't excessive, I see nothing wrong with using a belt on your child. You can discipline with love. In fact, I think using your hand is more heinous than a belt. At least the belt detaches you from being the "abuser". They associate the belt with discipline. Not your hand. And, truthfully, I don't remember any times I was spanked with a belt that it sticks out in my mind. Really, it's the anticipation of it that is the most painful. Not the actual "belting".

I swear. This world is full of hypocritical know-it-alls. Everyone wants to tell everyone else how they should raise their children. It's silly. Maybe pay a little more attention in your own home and stop trying to solve the world's "problems".

And while we are on the subject of parents coddling and being overprotective of their children; Do you really need to drive to the bus stop and sit in the car with them while the bus pulls up and comes to a complete stop? Seriously? I used to have to walk 1/2 a mile to my bus stop with my younger brother in the 2nd grade. We'd ride our bikes to school over a mile away in the 4th grade. I understand you want your children to be safe, but stop making them SO AFRAID of the world. Jesus.

FWIW, I don't have children yet, so this is an unbiased opinion.

Nothing makes a kid feel more loved than having the person they trust the most in the world causing them physical pain.

But you don't get it. The kid spilled his milk. How is he ever going to learn if you don't beat him?

 

[Godsbrother]

PUSIFICATION OF AMERICA

definitely. Any man needing a belt to control a child is a #####.

 

[cstu]

Should You Spank Your Child?

If your parents used spanking as a discipline method growing up, you may have reconciled yourself to their behavior by justifying it: You came out ok. You may even think there is no other choice for managing kids who are "a handful." How else do kids learn?

We now have a wealth of studies on how spanking affects kids. The research shows clearly that children do indeed learn from spanking, but they don't learn what we want them to.

Researcher Elizabeth Gershoff, Ph.D., examined 60 years of research on corporal punishment in a 2002 meta-analytic study that is still considered the state of the art in the field. This meta-analysis found that the only positive outcome of corporal punishment was immediate compliance; however, corporal punishment was associated with less long-term compliance. Corporal punishment was linked with nine other negative outcomes, including increased rates of aggression, delinquency, mental health problems, and problems in relationships with their parents.

Large, peer-reviewed studies repeatedly show that the more children are hit, the more likely they are to hit others, including peers and siblings. As adults, they are more likely to hit their spouses. The more parents spank children for antisocial behavior, the more the antisocial behavior increases. All of the peer reviewed studies being published continue to confirm these findings. A major study at Tulane University, published in Pediatrics, controlled for other factors that have been found to contribute to aggressiveness in children, including the mother's depression, alcohol and drug use, spousal abuse and even whether the mother considered abortion while pregnant with the child. Spanking remained a strong predictor of violent behavior in the child. As five-year-olds, the children who had been spanked were more likely than the non-spanked to be defiant, demand immediate satisfaction of their wants and needs, become frustrated easily, have temper tantrums and lash out physically against other people or animals.

Quite simply, spanking produces WORSE behavior, not better behavior. It also begets more violence, because hitting children teaches them that it is acceptable to hit others who are smaller and weaker. “I'm going to hit you because you hit your sister” is a hypocrisy not lost on children. As every parent knows, kids do what we do, not what we say.

I often hear “I got hit when I was a kid and I turned out OK," or “I was spanked as a child, and I deserved it.” It is very hard for us to believe that people who loved us would intentionally hurt us, so we feel the need to excuse that hurt. If you were willing to reach deep inside and really feel again the hurt you felt when you were physically punished as a child, you would never consider inflicting that pain on your own child. I have heard many stories from adults who still hate their parents because their parents spanked them "for their own good."

And the pain does not end in childhood, even if we repress and deny it. A landmark analysis of 88 corporal punishment studies over six decades showed that spanking during childhood was associated with negative behaviors in adults, even when the adult said that the spanking was deserved and had not hurt them. Even a few instances of being hit as children are associated with more depressive symptoms as adults. While most of us who were spanked “turned out OK”, it is clear that not being spanked would have helped us "turn out" to be healthier.

I strongly believe that permissiveness without limits creates children who are unhappy and impossible to live with. But discipline means “to teach." If we're serious about raising good kids, we need to use methods that teach kids to manage themselves. Spanking does not do that. Instead, it teaches kids to be afraid of us, which is no basis for love. It teaches them to be sneaky so they won't be caught doing something wrong. It teaches kids that they are bad, so they are more likely to behave badly. It teaches kids to use violence when they want to solve a problem. And it keeps them from taking responsibility to improve their own behavior, because they "externalize the locus of control," which means they only behave because an authority figure makes them, rather than behaving because they want to.

The secret is that spanking not only doesn't work, it is totally unnecessary. When children are raised with age-appropriate expectations and limits accompanied by empathy, they tend to behave and cooperate. Those children don't need much in the way of discipline at all, and they become self-disciplined adults.

So next time you get so angry you want to hit someone, tell your kids you’re taking a timeout and you’ll deal with them later. Then go into the bathroom, run the water, and calm yourself down. Use the time to get calm, not to justify your anger. When you come out, tell them you need to think hard about what they did, but right now you need to fix dinner (do the laundry, whatever.) Tell them you need them to be little angels, and you will talk when you are all calm later. Then follow through. Your discipline and teaching will be so much more effective. They’ll learn a lot better when they aren’t in the flush of flight or flight hormones. And you will be so grateful to see yourself becoming the kind of parent every child deserves. (For more on this, see For Parents: How to Handle Your Own Anger.)

 

[Random]

Cant imagine hitting my 5yo for anything. What are your kids doing that result in you hitting them? Spilling your PBR?

 

[KarmaPolice]

There is a reason a large number of children are growing up these days with no backbone and no sense of discipline. A generation of pansies is being bred.As long as it isn't excessive, I see nothing wrong with using a belt on your child. You can discipline with love. In fact, I think using your hand is more heinous than a belt. At least the belt detaches you from being the "abuser". They associate the belt with discipline. Not your hand. And, truthfully, I don't remember any times I was spanked with a belt that it sticks out in my mind. Really, it's the anticipation of it that is the most painful. Not the actual "belting".I swear. This world is full of hypocritical know-it alls. FWIW, I don't have children yet, so this is an unbiased opinion.

Awefully riled up for somebody without kids. Also, posts like this point to the fact that hitting is worthless when you state that it is about the anticipation. Just seems like a stupid way to toughen up your kid. Don't have to hit a kid to give them a sense of responsibility and independence.

 

[NewlyRetired]

For the people who are in favor of beating their children as part of their discipline, does that include your daughters or do you only favoring beating your sons?

I don't have a son but I can't ever picture hurting my daughter physically.

 

[StrikeS2k]

For the people who are in favor of beating their children as part of their discipline, does that include your daughters or do you only favoring beating your sons?I don't have a son but I can't ever picture hurting my daughter physically.

I think you mis-characterize the stance of people who aren't opposed to spanking. I'd bet most, if not all, of them hope to NEVER have to spank their children. But they aren't opposed to it if the situation warrants. Not ruling out a particular parenting "tool" doesn't necessarily indicate being in favor of it. And I'm pretty sure no one would use the word "beating" to describe a typical spanking.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Cant imagine hitting my 5yo for anything. What are your kids doing that result in you hitting them? Spilling your PBR?

at the last part.I asked this a couple pages ago and never got any examples of what their kids did to get a belt/spanking, unless I missed them.

 

[NewlyRetired]

For the people who are in favor of beating their children as part of their discipline, does that include your daughters or do you only favoring beating your sons?I don't have a son but I can't ever picture hurting my daughter physically.

I think you mis-characterize the stance of people who aren't opposed to spanking. I'd bet most, if not all, of them hope to NEVER have to spank their children. But they aren't opposed to it if the situation warrants. Not ruling out a particular parenting "tool" doesn't necessarily indicate being in favor of it. And I'm pretty sure no one would use the word "beating" to describe a typical spanking.

Are we changing the question here? Using your hand to hit a child's bottom is spanking. Using a weapon to hurt your child is beating them. Two entirely different questions IMO.

 

[GreatLakesMike]

Let me throw this question out there. Say I was a person who was raised being spanked as my way of being disciplined. My entire family was raised that way. My mother, my father, their parents and so on. We're a generation of spankers. Say I married someone that's been raised the same way. However, we want to raise our kids without using spanking. What are some alternative forms of discipline that you can suggest to someone who has never seen another alternative?

Take away things (Video game system, TV, toys, etc. etc), and not for an hour or two; start with a week, then a month. Extra chores. Perform community service like picking up trash. Put a chair in the corner of the room and have the kid sit for a few hours staring at a wall.All kinds of different methods. Depends on what kind of mistake the kid made and what kind of punishment you think is needed.

 

[Zegras11]

what are your guy's thoughts on chores as a punishment? I have used oddball ones like grout cleaning or frustrating ones like weed pulling. I have found they work great, but have heard arguments against. thoughts?I made the mistake a few times of using reading time as a punishment. He hated doing it for school, so I knew it would be something that would make him regret his actions. I didn't really think it through though. I witnessed a friend of mine using food as a reward/punishment and I thought jesus, I am doing the same thing with the reading. Luckily I have been able to win him over to reading as a fun option.

Chores should not be a punishment. Chores should be expected in the sense that everyone in the family chips in take make the household work the best it can.

 

[StrikeS2k]

For the people who are in favor of beating their children as part of their discipline, does that include your daughters or do you only favoring beating your sons?I don't have a son but I can't ever picture hurting my daughter physically.

I think you mis-characterize the stance of people who aren't opposed to spanking. I'd bet most, if not all, of them hope to NEVER have to spank their children. But they aren't opposed to it if the situation warrants. Not ruling out a particular parenting "tool" doesn't necessarily indicate being in favor of it. And I'm pretty sure no one would use the word "beating" to describe a typical spanking.

Are we changing the question here? Using your hand to hit a child's bottom is spanking. Using a weapon to hurt your child is beating them. Two entirely different questions IMO.

I don't think the utensil matters. There is a line where a spanking becomes a beating. And I don't think anyone who think spanking is acceptable thinks beating is. And whether the beating is administered with a hand, a paddle, or a belt is irrelevant. This thread should be about spanking. When people start using words like beating to mislead and inflame it hurts the tone and content of the thread, IMO.

 

[shader]

Cant imagine hitting my 5yo for anything. What are your kids doing that result in you hitting them? Spilling your PBR?

at the last part.I asked this a couple pages ago and never got any examples of what their kids did to get a belt/spanking, unless I missed them.

Blatant disobedience? Defiance? Temper tantrums? There are plenty of things that kids do. I was in a nice restaurant and had to take my 3 year old outside for a stern couple of words. On the way out a father was coming inside and his kid was hitting him over and over. The dad was like "now son let's not hit"... So ther is a perfect example of a time when a kid needs to learn their place, and a spanking might be the perfect tool, though it depends on the kid.I think many confuse spanking with beating. My philosophy is that a spanking should only cause momentary pain. And what comes after the quick spanking is probably more important.Beating a kid bare skinned with a belt is totally different and I would imagine that could cause serious problems, though I am sure there are many well adjusted kids that went through that.

 

[Mjolnirs]

For the people who are in favor of beating their children as part of their discipline, does that include your daughters or do you only favoring beating your sons?I don't have a son but I can't ever picture hurting my daughter physically.

I spanked both my son and daughter when they were children.

 

[NewlyRetired]

For the people who are in favor of beating their children as part of their discipline, does that include your daughters or do you only favoring beating your sons?I don't have a son but I can't ever picture hurting my daughter physically.

I think you mis-characterize the stance of people who aren't opposed to spanking. I'd bet most, if not all, of them hope to NEVER have to spank their children. But they aren't opposed to it if the situation warrants. Not ruling out a particular parenting "tool" doesn't necessarily indicate being in favor of it. And I'm pretty sure no one would use the word "beating" to describe a typical spanking.

Are we changing the question here? Using your hand to hit a child's bottom is spanking. Using a weapon to hurt your child is beating them. Two entirely different questions IMO.

I don't think the utensil matters. There is a line where a spanking becomes a beating. And I don't think anyone who think spanking is acceptable thinks beating is. And whether the beating is administered with a hand, a paddle, or a belt is irrelevant. This thread should be about spanking. When people start using words like beating to mislead and inflame it hurts the tone and content of the thread, IMO.

I am not using the word to mislead or inflame. When a father uses a weapon to hurt his child for dropping a fly ball, I believe that child is being beaten. You may believe that it is spanking. I would say you are being more misleading than I am. All in the eye of the beholder I guess.

 

[StrikeS2k]

For the people who are in favor of beating their children as part of their discipline, does that include your daughters or do you only favoring beating your sons?

I don't have a son but I can't ever picture hurting my daughter physically.

I think you mis-characterize the stance of people who aren't opposed to spanking. I'd bet most, if not all, of them hope to NEVER have to spank their children. But they aren't opposed to it if the situation warrants. Not ruling out a particular parenting "tool" doesn't necessarily indicate being in favor of it. And I'm pretty sure no one would use the word "beating" to describe a typical spanking.

Are we changing the question here? Using your hand to hit a child's bottom is spanking. Using a weapon to hurt your child is beating them. Two entirely different questions IMO.

I don't think the utensil matters. There is a line where a spanking becomes a beating. And I don't think anyone who think spanking is acceptable thinks beating is. And whether the beating is administered with a hand, a paddle, or a belt is irrelevant. This thread should be about spanking. When people start using words like beating to mislead and inflame it hurts the tone and content of the thread, IMO.

I am not using the word to mislead or inflame.

When a father uses a weapon to hurt his child for dropping a fly ball, I believe that child is being beaten. You may believe that it is spanking. I would say you are being more misleading than I am. All in the eye of the beholder I guess.

That is another thread entirely. No one in this thread has suggested that it's ok to hit your kid for dropping a fly ball.

 

[General Malaise]

Spanking is a failure of parenting. Hitting a kid with a belt is an even bigger failure. You're using violence to communicate because you've failed to communicate in other ways, or worse, you never tried. Some parents arent skilled at communicating, though, and violence is a very clear kind of communication. It might work better than YOUR alternatives, even if it doesn't work better than ALL of the alternatives.

Brilliant post.

It is with much shame and a tremendous amount of regret that I admit to spanking both of my sons when they were much younger. It was less than twice for both of them, but I won't forget it and I vowed never to do it again. At one time in my life, I thought it was an acceptable form of punishment if done correctly and not done in anger. But I no longer feel that way and hate myself for ever using it as a form of punishment. They are 9 and 8 now and there's not a chance in hell I ever resort to spanking them again. Good post Fred.

 

[cstu]

Cant imagine hitting my 5yo for anything. What are your kids doing that result in you hitting them? Spilling your PBR?

at the last part.I asked this a couple pages ago and never got any examples of what their kids did to get a belt/spanking, unless I missed them.

Blatant disobedience? Defiance? Temper tantrums? There are plenty of things that kids do. I was in a nice restaurant and had to take my 3 year old outside for a stern couple of words. On the way out a father was coming inside and his kid was hitting him over and over. The dad was like "now son let's not hit"... So ther is a perfect example of a time when a kid needs to learn their place, and a spanking might be the perfect tool, though it depends on the kid.

I think many confuse spanking with beating. My philosophy is that a spanking should only cause momentary pain. And what comes after the quick spanking is probably more important.

Beating a kid bare skinned with a belt is totally different and I would imagine that could cause serious problems, though I am sure there are many well adjusted kids that went through that.

Are you suggesting that the best way to teach children not to hit people is by hitting them?

 

[Abrantes]

 

[NewlyRetired]

Spanking is a failure of parenting. Hitting a kid with a belt is an even bigger failure. You're using violence to communicate because you've failed to communicate in other ways, or worse, you never tried. Some parents arent skilled at communicating, though, and violence is a very clear kind of communication. It might work better than YOUR alternatives, even if it doesn't work better than ALL of the alternatives.

Brilliant post.

It is with much shame and a tremendous amount of regret that I admit to spanking both of my sons when they were much younger. It was less than twice for both of them, but I won't forget it and I vowed never to do it again. At one time in my life, I thought it was an acceptable form of punishment if done correctly and not done in anger. But I no longer feel that way and hate myself for ever using it as a form of punishment. They are 9 and 8 now and there's not a chance in hell I ever resort to spanking them again. Good post Fred.

Very well said. By both of you.

 

[Apple Jack]

I like the contrast of fred's well thought out, well written post with this drivel

Liberal pantywaists... Nothing wrong with taking a belt to a kids ### for gettig out of line. It's certainly not a felony. Excessive for dropping a ball? Sure! But as a course of discipline I fully intend to have the belt in my arsenal when raising my kids.

Bite your tongue hippie.

Dude, you're like SO tough bro. Kids need to be beaten with foreign objects if they're ever going to learn how to navigate the world out there. It's the only way. Especially, if you're a ###### idiot as a parent. Also, I find the lack of lead paint in houses these days consistent with the continued ####IFICATION OF 'MURICA.

 

[shader]

Cant imagine hitting my 5yo for anything. What are your kids doing that result in you hitting them? Spilling your PBR?

at the last part.I asked this a couple pages ago and never got any examples of what their kids did to get a belt/spanking, unless I missed them.

Blatant disobedience? Defiance? Temper tantrums? There are plenty of things that kids do. I was in a nice restaurant and had to take my 3 year old outside for a stern couple of words. On the way out a father was coming inside and his kid was hitting him over and over. The dad was like "now son let's not hit"... So ther is a perfect example of a time when a kid needs to learn their place, and a spanking might be the perfect tool, though it depends on the kid.

I think many confuse spanking with beating. My philosophy is that a spanking should only cause momentary pain. And what comes after the quick spanking is probably more important.

Beating a kid bare skinned with a belt is totally different and I would imagine that could cause serious problems, though I am sure there are many well adjusted kids that went through that.

Are you suggesting that the best way to teach children not to hit people is by hitting them?

If it works why not? I never said its the " best way". But that kid needed some serious discipline. What if you tried everything and nothing worked? Then a spanking worked?

You guys can question it all you want, but plenty of parents use spanking as a discipline tool and they use it because it works. And our children are very happy, normal children.

 

[General Malaise]

There is a reason a large number of children are growing up these days with no backbone and no sense of discipline. A generation of pansies is being bred.As long as it isn't excessive, I see nothing wrong with using a belt on your child. You can discipline with love. In fact, I think using your hand is more heinous than a belt. At least the belt detaches you from being the "abuser". They associate the belt with discipline. Not your hand. And, truthfully, I don't remember any times I was spanked with a belt that it sticks out in my mind. Really, it's the anticipation of it that is the most painful. Not the actual "belting".I swear. This world is full of hypocritical know-it-alls. Everyone wants to tell everyone else how they should raise their children. It's silly. Maybe pay a little more attention in your own home and stop trying to solve the world's "problems". And while we are on the subject of parents coddling and being overprotective of their children; Do you really need to drive to the bus stop and sit in the car with them while the bus pulls up and comes to a complete stop? Seriously? I used to have to walk 1/2 a mile to my bus stop with my younger brother in the 2nd grade. We'd ride our bikes to school over a mile away in the 4th grade. I understand you want your children to be safe, but stop making them SO AFRAID of the world. Jesus.FWIW, I don't have children yet, so this is an unbiased opinion.

For a guy who doesn't have any children, you sure have a lot of opinions about parenting them. What sort of exposure do you have to children where you can make a blanket statement that "a large number of children are growing up these days with no backbone and no sense of discipline"?

 

[Random]

Spanking is a failure of parenting. Hitting a kid with a belt is an even bigger failure. You're using violence to communicate because you've failed to communicate in other ways, or worse, you never tried. Some parents arent skilled at communicating, though, and violence is a very clear kind of communication. It might work better than YOUR alternatives, even if it doesn't work better than ALL of the alternatives.

Brilliant post.

It is with much shame and a tremendous amount of regret that I admit to spanking both of my sons when they were much younger. It was less than twice for both of them, but I won't forget it and I vowed never to do it again. At one time in my life, I thought it was an acceptable form of punishment if done correctly and not done in anger. But I no longer feel that way and hate myself for ever using it as a form of punishment. They are 9 and 8 now and there's not a chance in hell I ever resort to spanking them again. Good post Fred.

Very well said. By both of you.

 

[Apple Jack]

There is a reason a large number of children are growing up these days with no backbone and no sense of discipline. A generation of pansies is being bred.As long as it isn't excessive, I see nothing wrong with using a belt on your child. You can discipline with love. In fact, I think using your hand is more heinous than a belt. At least the belt detaches you from being the "abuser". They associate the belt with discipline. Not your hand. And, truthfully, I don't remember any times I was spanked with a belt that it sticks out in my mind. Really, it's the anticipation of it that is the most painful. Not the actual "belting".I swear. This world is full of hypocritical know-it-alls. Everyone wants to tell everyone else how they should raise their children. It's silly. Maybe pay a little more attention in your own home and stop trying to solve the world's "problems". And while we are on the subject of parents coddling and being overprotective of their children; Do you really need to drive to the bus stop and sit in the car with them while the bus pulls up and comes to a complete stop? Seriously? I used to have to walk 1/2 a mile to my bus stop with my younger brother in the 2nd grade. We'd ride our bikes to school over a mile away in the 4th grade. I understand you want your children to be safe, but stop making them SO AFRAID of the world. Jesus.FWIW, I don't have children yet, so this is an unbiased opinion.

For a guy who doesn't have any children, you sure have a lot of opinions about parenting them. What sort of exposure do you have to children where you can make a blanket statement that "a large number of children are growing up these days with no backbone and no sense of discipline"?

That's his way of saying "people need to be more like I want them to be." One person's backbone is another person's ignorance.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

I'm a father of 4 and never had to (or think I would) use the belt on any of my kids, but I understand it's purpose.

My father used it on me and I don't look back and think he was wrong. In many instances I deserved it and his speaches didn't drive the point home. I turned out great...no self-esteem issues, good job, happy life etc.

The only one of my friends who do not spank or hit his kids has without question the worst ones. No respect from his son who's 15...there's simply no fear and no respect.

 

[belljr]

Is there an age issue involved? For example, I'm not sure if you can reason with a three year old. On the other hand, maybe a kid that young won't even be able to connect the bad behavior with the spanking. Is there an age where this is more or less advised?

I definitely think age can be an issue. I never technically spanked my daughter but when she was around 3, I physically held her in timeout during tantrums, etc. I even have grabbed her and scolded her. So I have not hit her but not sure what I did do is any better

 

[Bigboy10182000]

My Grandfather used to make us go out and pick a switch off a bush in the front yard.

It wasn't so much the physical pain, as my Grandfather would never "abuse" us. It had more to do with the process of trying to figure out which branch would hurt less.

From that point on, all he had to do was talk about the bush and we knew to cool it.

I guarantee you with one look I get the same reaction and I don't lay a hand on my son.

So your son fears you and you're proud about this? That's troubling to say the least.

You had to have done something in the past for your son to equate the 'look' with something.

There's nothing wrong with your kid having a healthy fear of his parents. That's what kept me from drinking while a teen, smoking, steeling, walking on train tracks etc. A dad guilt trip wouldnt have worked on me.

 

[doowain]

There is a reason a large number of children are growing up these days with no backbone and no sense of discipline. A generation of pansies is being bred.As long as it isn't excessive, I see nothing wrong with using a belt on your child. You can discipline with love. In fact, I think using your hand is more heinous than a belt. At least the belt detaches you from being the "abuser". They associate the belt with discipline. Not your hand. And, truthfully, I don't remember any times I was spanked with a belt that it sticks out in my mind. Really, it's the anticipation of it that is the most painful. Not the actual "belting".I swear. This world is full of hypocritical know-it-alls. Everyone wants to tell everyone else how they should raise their children. It's silly. Maybe pay a little more attention in your own home and stop trying to solve the world's "problems". And while we are on the subject of parents coddling and being overprotective of their children; Do you really need to drive to the bus stop and sit in the car with them while the bus pulls up and comes to a complete stop? Seriously? I used to have to walk 1/2 a mile to my bus stop with my younger brother in the 2nd grade. We'd ride our bikes to school over a mile away in the 4th grade. I understand you want your children to be safe, but stop making them SO AFRAID of the world. Jesus.FWIW, I don't have children yet, so this is an unbiased opinion.

For a guy who doesn't have any children, you sure have a lot of opinions about parenting them. What sort of exposure do you have to children where you can make a blanket statement that "a large number of children are growing up these days with no backbone and no sense of discipline"?

As a former child, I feel that I have every right to an opinion on the matter.I see children at restaurants all the time that are ridiculously out of control. Loud, running around. I never did that as a child, because I knew if I did, I'd get my ### spanked. You can discipline your children and they will still love you. Those two things are NOT mutually exclusive. Show them love. It's not that difficult of a concept.It just seems that so many kids don't respect their parents these days and you see that behavior first hand. I have more respect for my dad than any man in the world. But he spanked me. He never beat me. So, there may be a disconnect on my opinion here.I know it's not the only factor in the matter, but look at violence in schools. It's escalated dramatically from the 70s, 80s, and early 90s when paddling was still allowed in schools. Can't be a complete coincidence.

 

[jonessed]

Great, so now childhood spanking is the cause of mental illness. Another page and we may find that the collective elimination of childhood spanking may actually be a cure to cancer.

What would we have done if all of these child psychologists hadn't aggregated on a fantasy football message board and worked this out? The world may never know...

 

[shader]

There is a reason a large number of children are growing up these days with no backbone and no sense of discipline. A generation of pansies is being bred.As long as it isn't excessive, I see nothing wrong with using a belt on your child. You can discipline with love. In fact, I think using your hand is more heinous than a belt. At least the belt detaches you from being the "abuser". They associate the belt with discipline. Not your hand. And, truthfully, I don't remember any times I was spanked with a belt that it sticks out in my mind. Really, it's the anticipation of it that is the most painful. Not the actual "belting".I swear. This world is full of hypocritical know-it-alls. Everyone wants to tell everyone else how they should raise their children. It's silly. Maybe pay a little more attention in your own home and stop trying to solve the world's "problems". And while we are on the subject of parents coddling and being overprotective of their children; Do you really need to drive to the bus stop and sit in the car with them while the bus pulls up and comes to a complete stop? Seriously? I used to have to walk 1/2 a mile to my bus stop with my younger brother in the 2nd grade. We'd ride our bikes to school over a mile away in the 4th grade. I understand you want your children to be safe, but stop making them SO AFRAID of the world. Jesus.FWIW, I don't have children yet, so this is an unbiased opinion.

For a guy who doesn't have any children, you sure have a lot of opinions about parenting them. What sort of exposure do you have to children where you can make a blanket statement that "a large number of children are growing up these days with no backbone and no sense of discipline"?

As a former child, I feel that I have every right to an opinion on the matter.I see children at restaurants all the time that are ridiculously out of control. Loud, running around. I never did that as a child, because I knew if I did, I'd get my ### spanked. You can discipline your children and they will still love you. Those two things are NOT mutually exclusive. Show them love. It's not that difficult of a concept.It just seems that so many kids don't respect their parents these days and you see that behavior first hand. I have more respect for my dad than any man in the world. But he spanked me. He never beat me. So, there may be a disconnect on my opinion here.I know it's not the only factor in the matter, but look at violence in schools. It's escalated dramatically from the 70s, 80s, and early 90s when paddling was still allowed in schools. Can't be a complete coincidence.

Great point. A group of guys that I work with were sitting around a restaurant the other day, and all 6 of us got "beat" as kids. We all lamented the fact that kids these days are crazy and are not disciplined. One guy said that if he was at a friends house and he did something bad, his friend's parents would whip him, and then he'd get home and get another whipping.It was a way of life, and kids developed a healthy respect and fear for their parents, if the whippings weren't abusive. It is patently false that all whippings are abusive, and there are many in this thread that seem to be implying that. They are wrong.

 

[cstu]

I'm a father of 4 and never had to (or think I would) use the belt on any of my kids, but I understand it's purpose.My father used it on me and I don't look back and think he was wrong. In many instances I deserved it and his speaches didn't drive the point home. I turned out great...no self-esteem issues, good job, happy life etc.The only one of my friends who do not spank or hit his kids has without question the worst ones. No respect from his son who's 15...there's simply no fear and no respect.

To be respected you have to be respectful yourself - especially when talking to your kids - and expect it of your kids on a constant basis. It's hard work so many parents let disrespectful behavior slide most of the time and when they do try to get kids to be respectful they yell at them instead of respectfully teaching the correct behavior.