Is Tom Brady the greatest quarterback EVER? (1 Viewer)

[Jambi]

Marino

Favre

Young

Montana

Unitas

Elway

Aikman

Moon

Then we'll start discussing this guy. He's obviously above average but without Moss and Welker he's just pretty good. The rest of those guys on my list got it done without a supporting cast...right

 

[The Dawg]

If Brady runs off another year or two of high quality football I'll say he's the best ever. Those of you saying he's only doing well because of a great supporting cast are inane. Guy almost went to the SB with Jabar Gaffney as his number one last year and won a SB with Kevin Faulk and Antowain Smith as his starting backs. Sure, his o-line is one of the best, but he's had no better supporting casts than the other guys.

 

[The Dawg]

As of right now I'd go:

Elway

Montana

Favre

Marino

Brady

Manning

Unitas

But when all is said and done Brady will be one and Manning will be two.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

Marino FavreYoung MontanaUnitasElwayAikmanMoonThen we'll start discussing this guy. He's obviously above average but without Moss and Welker he's just pretty good. The rest of those guys on my list got it done without a supporting cast...right

 

[pollardsvision]

obviously, it's too early to say, but i think he certainly could be.

one thing is for sure though: brady will erase montana from the discussion.

when all is said and done, montana will be inferior to brady in every argument used to claim montana is the best (and i assume brady's back-up wouldn't be able to pick up and run the patriots without missing a beat, like what happened to montana).

 

[The Dawg]

He is the best I've ever seen, hands down.

Moss is the best WR I have ever seen as well.

You gotta be young. You must have never seen Jerry Rice in the 80's and early 90s. Rice could do it all. Name the last time you saw Randy Moss take a slant pass 80 yards for a TD. Has he ever? Rice at 40 put up 92-1211 yards. Moss will be on a couch somewhere well before he gets to 40.

Thanks I needed a laugh before I went to the gym.Here is a quick link so you can see you're own ignorance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7ratj11TSM

God that makes me miss Moss here in MN. :cry

Seriously, only knock on Moss is his attitude. He does quit when things are going badly. But if you had to give me either Moss or Rice for one game, I'm going Moss w/out hesitation.

 

[Gopher State]

Nope. He's the second best active quarterback though.

You are forgetting Peyton Manning. Some would consider Brady the third best active QB. Myself, I give him the nod over Manning, but not by much. At this point, with all that Favre has done, I think it is absurd to consider him at Favre's level. Brady has benefitted from great coaching in addition to the supporting cast. I rank Belicheat as the greatest coach I have ever seen (never saw Lombardi). Favre had to struggle through the Sherman and Rhodes years. And lets never forget that he only beat Peyton Manning's single season TD record by running up scores, cheating, and playing specifically for the records.

When talking about the greatest QB, I think you have to consider leadership and character. Favre and Manning both blow Brady away in those categories.

Yup...Brady has really suffered in both the leadership and character categories.

I agree, very

 

[Jambi]

Marino FavreYoung MontanaUnitasElwayAikmanMoonThen we'll start discussing this guy. He's obviously above average but without Moss and Welker he's just pretty good. The rest of those guys on my list got it done without a supporting cast...right

:whoosh:

You're not following along.

 

[Mr Capicollo]

Anyway, I just think it's no coincidence that many of the great quarterbacks played for great organizations and we shouldn't marginalize them because of the skill of their supporting cast.

Why not? It's clear that supporting cast has a HUGE impact on how a QB is perceived. Archie Manning is considered by many to be the best QB to ever play for a terrible franchise. He had sub-7 ypa and 48 more INTs than TDs. Jake Plummer threw 24 more INTs than TDs in his six years in Arizona... and 24 more TDs than INTs in his four years in Denver. From 1983 to 1992, John Elway was a rather inefficient passer. Prior to the 1993 season, he gets a HoF left tackle, and in the next few seasons he gets some decent receivers and a running game, and all of a sudden the top 6 passer ratings of his entire career all come within his final six seasons. Heck, look at Tom Brady himself. Last year, he has no wide receivers. Result? 6.8 ypa, 24 TDs, 87.9 passer rating. This year, the only change on his offense is that he gets some stud receivers, and all of a sudden he magically transforms into a 50 TD, 4800 yard, 117 rating passer. Looks to me like his supporting cast was worth about 25 scores and 30 points of passer rating. That's the difference between "no receivers" and "Moss/Welker/Stallworth". You add 30 points to a scrub's passer rating, and suddenly he's one of the better QBs in the league. You add 30 points to an already great QB's passer rating, and suddenly he's the greatest QB to ever play. That's what kind of impact supporting cast can have.

Wouldn't it be more accurate to say that talent around a QB is necessary to reveal that QB's talents? Regardless, you don't do what Brady's doing this year without a phenomenal amount of QB talent.

 

[FUBAR]

He's certainly better than Peyton Manning this weekend.

 

[Tau837]

Give Brady Harrison, Wayne, Clark, and Edge/Addai playing indoors and Brady would have put up video game numbers a long time agao and the Colts would have won more titles.

Totally disagree with this hypothetical.

very good posting.

Since this is all hypothetical in the first place, substitute Brady's post season numbers for Manning's and what would you get?

Are you substituting the Pats' defenses and coaching staff for Indy's, too?

 

[The Dawg]

He's certainly better than Peyton Manning this weekend.

you know peyton's INTs were tipped by his WRs right?Brady was absolutely perfect. Peyton is playing very very good right now.

 

[carlos1984]

Manning is not as good as Brady under pressure

 

[rabidfireweasel]

Give Brady Harrison, Wayne, Clark, and Edge/Addai playing indoors and Brady would have put up video game numbers a long time agao and the Colts would have won more titles.

Totally disagree with this hypothetical.

very good posting.

Since this is all hypothetical in the first place, substitute Brady's post season numbers for Manning's and what would you get?

Are you substituting the Pats' defenses and coaching staff for Indy's, too?

Indy allowed the fewest points in the NFL this year. NE has been number 1 in points allowed while Brady has been their QB. They won the superbowl that year.

 

[mad sweeney]

obviously, it's too early to say, but i think he certainly could be.one thing is for sure though: brady will erase montana from the discussion.when all is said and done, montana will be inferior to brady in every argument used to claim montana is the best (and i assume brady's back-up wouldn't be able to pick up and run the patriots without missing a beat, like what happened to montana).

That happened with Steve Young, not a very fair comparasin. He obviously proved to be a great QB in his own right. If Brady's back up is as good as Young, then I would expect a pretty seamless transition.

 

[Tau837]

Give Brady Harrison, Wayne, Clark, and Edge/Addai playing indoors and Brady would have put up video game numbers a long time agao and the Colts would have won more titles.

Totally disagree with this hypothetical.

very good posting.

Since this is all hypothetical in the first place, substitute Brady's post season numbers for Manning's and what would you get?

Are you substituting the Pats' defenses and coaching staff for Indy's, too?

Indy allowed the fewest points in the NFL this year. NE has been number 1 in points allowed while Brady has been their QB. They won the superbowl that year.

I'm not sure what your point is. The original claim was about previous years, not this year.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Manning is not as good as Brady under pressure

You miss last year's AFC title game where Manning led the Colts to the winning score in the last minutes, followed by Brady throwing a game-ending INT?Note: This does not mean that I think Manning is necessarily better. It just means that your statement is just plain silly.

 

[Perfect Tommy]

obviously, it's too early to say, but i think he certainly could be.one thing is for sure though: brady will erase montana from the discussion.when all is said and done, montana will be inferior to brady in every argument used to claim montana is the best (and i assume brady's back-up wouldn't be able to pick up and run the patriots without missing a beat, like what happened to montana).

That happened with Steve Young, not a very fair comparasin. He obviously proved to be a great QB in his own right. If Brady's back up is as good as Young, then I would expect a pretty seamless transition.

Elvis Grbac also came in for SF and was just as good. He was a good QB but nowhere near best ever. I have never considered Montana to be the best ever. I'll take Favre, Elway and Young (forget about guys before my time, I never saw them).

 

[Jambi]

Manning is not as good as Brady under pressure

You miss last year's AFC title game where Manning led the Colts to the winning score in the last minutes, followed by Brady throwing a game-ending INT?Note: This does not mean that I think Manning is necessarily better. It just means that your statement is just plain silly.

I guess looking at one game between these two QB's is fair enough. Brady has sliced the Colts up for years. So the Colts won a few. Give us something else before saying its a silly statement. I can list the reasonS why Brady has been better in the clutch and under pressure.

 

[Dentist]

I've been a really strong Marino supporter for years and years and would've argued him as the best for a long time.

If Brady wins a 4th superbowl (and especially if it is this season), I don't see how there will be many arguments left that he isn't the best ever.

If you factor in that he'll be one of the first QB's to ever have a shot at a 5th superbowl title.. and provided he continues to play a a good level for another 4-5 years.. he'll also have very good stats as well.

He probably won't catch up to Favre in career stats (and Manning will probably take Favre over in most categories anyway).

But Brady will be able to combine very effective statistics (and a phenomenal single season) with possibly the best winning % of all time.

It's too bad this poll couldn't have been started after he wins superbowl #4

I didn't start out liking the Brady/Pats .. i was furious they won in 2001 over the Rams.

But I can't help but respect the greatness now. and this year, if they do it, you'll be combining statistical excellence with the wins.

There's still an argument now.. but if he gets this 19-0 thing done.. there won't be much of one left. If he can get a 5th. forget it.. it's over, and the argument might be over FOREVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[FUBAR]

He's certainly better than Peyton Manning this weekend.

you know peyton's INTs were tipped by his WRs right?Brady was absolutely perfect. Peyton is playing very very good right now.

Yes, I saw the game. The passes were catchable, but not perfectly placed. Good to see you don't disagree with my statement.

 

[SSOG]

It appears the only talent you're concerned with are WRs and RBs. Thankfully, there's more than those 3-5 players on the field. He's never played behind a mediocre OL or for a mediocre coaching staff. That makes a difference. I won't say he is right now, but he's in the discussion the same way Bo Jackson is in the discussion for all time great RBs.

None of the other QBs in the discussion ever played behind a mediocre OL, either.

Huh? John "Most sacked QB in NFL history" Elway down?

You add 30 points to an already great QB's passer rating, and suddenly he's the greatest QB to ever play. That's what kind of impact supporting cast can have.

This might make sense if there weren't already a lot of people claiming that Brady could be the best ever BEFORE this year.

I wasn't saying anything at all about Brady. As a matter of fact, I think Brady definitely belongs in the "greatest ever" discussion. I was simply saying that supporting cast makes a massive difference. I think I need the benefit of perspective before saying definitively where I think he falls, but I don't think it's at all unreasonable to call him the greatest ever right now.

Anyway, I just think it's no coincidence that many of the great quarterbacks played for great organizations and we shouldn't marginalize them because of the skill of their supporting cast.

Why not? It's clear that supporting cast has a HUGE impact on how a QB is perceived. Archie Manning is considered by many to be the best QB to ever play for a terrible franchise. He had sub-7 ypa and 48 more INTs than TDs. Jake Plummer threw 24 more INTs than TDs in his six years in Arizona... and 24 more TDs than INTs in his four years in Denver. From 1983 to 1992, John Elway was a rather inefficient passer. Prior to the 1993 season, he gets a HoF left tackle, and in the next few seasons he gets some decent receivers and a running game, and all of a sudden the top 6 passer ratings of his entire career all come within his final six seasons. Heck, look at Tom Brady himself. Last year, he has no wide receivers. Result? 6.8 ypa, 24 TDs, 87.9 passer rating. This year, the only change on his offense is that he gets some stud receivers, and all of a sudden he magically transforms into a 50 TD, 4800 yard, 117 rating passer. Looks to me like his supporting cast was worth about 25 scores and 30 points of passer rating. That's the difference between "no receivers" and "Moss/Welker/Stallworth". You add 30 points to a scrub's passer rating, and suddenly he's one of the better QBs in the league. You add 30 points to an already great QB's passer rating, and suddenly he's the greatest QB to ever play. That's what kind of impact supporting cast can have.

Wouldn't it be more accurate to say that talent around a QB is necessary to reveal that QB's talents? Regardless, you don't do what Brady's doing this year without a phenomenal amount of QB talent.

I don't think supporting cast is necessary to reveal a QB's talents. As I said, everyone knew Archie Manning was a great QB despite the fact that he was on a terrible team. Elway was viewed as one of the best QBs in the league even when his passer rating and TD:INT ratio were mediocre. Greatness shines through the grime, all you need supporting cast for is stats.

 

[CaGamblers]

Montana then everyone else.....................................................

 

[phthalatemagic]

So far there are at least 86 very bad football fans.

 

[twitch]

It appears the only talent you're concerned with are WRs and RBs. Thankfully, there's more than those 3-5 players on the field. He's never played behind a mediocre OL or for a mediocre coaching staff. That makes a difference.

I won't say he is right now, but he's in the discussion the same way Bo Jackson is in the discussion for all time great RBs.

None of the other QBs in the discussion ever played behind a mediocre OL, either.

Huh? John "Most sacked QB in NFL history" Elway down?

You add 30 points to an already great QB's passer rating, and suddenly he's the greatest QB to ever play. That's what kind of impact supporting cast can have.

This might make sense if there weren't already a lot of people claiming that Brady could be the best ever BEFORE this year.

I wasn't saying anything at all about Brady. As a matter of fact, I think Brady definitely belongs in the "greatest ever" discussion. I was simply saying that supporting cast makes a massive difference. I think I need the benefit of perspective before saying definitively where I think he falls, but I don't think it's at all unreasonable to call him the greatest ever right now.

Anyway, I just think it's no coincidence that many of the great quarterbacks played for great organizations and we shouldn't marginalize them because of the skill of their supporting cast.

Why not? It's clear that supporting cast has a HUGE impact on how a QB is perceived. Archie Manning is considered by many to be the best QB to ever play for a terrible franchise. He had sub-7 ypa and 48 more INTs than TDs. Jake Plummer threw 24 more INTs than TDs in his six years in Arizona... and 24 more TDs than INTs in his four years in Denver. From 1983 to 1992, John Elway was a rather inefficient passer. Prior to the 1993 season, he gets a HoF left tackle, and in the next few seasons he gets some decent receivers and a running game, and all of a sudden the top 6 passer ratings of his entire career all come within his final six seasons. Heck, look at Tom Brady himself. Last year, he has no wide receivers. Result? 6.8 ypa, 24 TDs, 87.9 passer rating. This year, the only change on his offense is that he gets some stud receivers, and all of a sudden he magically transforms into a 50 TD, 4800 yard, 117 rating passer. Looks to me like his supporting cast was worth about 25 scores and 30 points of passer rating. That's the difference between "no receivers" and "Moss/Welker/Stallworth". You add 30 points to a scrub's passer rating, and suddenly he's one of the better QBs in the league. You add 30 points to an already great QB's passer rating, and suddenly he's the greatest QB to ever play. That's what kind of impact supporting cast can have.

Wouldn't it be more accurate to say that talent around a QB is necessary to reveal that QB's talents? Regardless, you don't do what Brady's doing this year without a phenomenal amount of QB talent.

I don't think supporting cast is necessary to reveal a QB's talents. As I said, everyone knew Archie Manning was a great QB despite the fact that he was on a terrible team. Elway was viewed as one of the best QBs in the league even when his passer rating and TD:INT ratio were mediocre. Greatness shines through the grime, all you need supporting cast for is stats.

Sorry, man. I like much of what you have to say, SS. But when you use the term "great" so loosely as to identify Archie Manning that way, it really diminishes how the word's use is intended. Archie Manning was certainly not great. He was a good pro QB on a bad team, who's teams never had a winning season once during his career. A great QB would have found a way to win more games atleast once in his career. Cast counts for a great deal, no pun intended, but would you define Vince Young as a great QB? He's already done with a team that was the 3rd worst in the league just 2 years ago what Archie Manning was never able to do.

 

[twitch]

So far there are at least 86 very bad football fans.

Uh, no. There are 86 people who have accepted the fact that while it will be forever truly impossible to identify any single person as the best of all time, those 86 know ONE thing... no one has ever played the position better. No one.

 

[DropKick]

So far there are at least 86 very bad football fans.

And one real bad poster who can never find a way to back up what he says.

 

[carlos1984]

Manning is not as good as Brady under pressure

You miss last year's AFC title game where Manning led the Colts to the winning score in the last minutes, followed by Brady throwing a game-ending INT?Note: This does not mean that I think Manning is necessarily better. It just means that your statement is just plain silly.

I didn't say Manning can't play under pressureI just said that Brady is better than Manning doing it

 

[FUBAR]

It appears the only talent you're concerned with are WRs and RBs. Thankfully, there's more than those 3-5 players on the field. He's never played behind a mediocre OL or for a mediocre coaching staff. That makes a difference. I won't say he is right now, but he's in the discussion the same way Bo Jackson is in the discussion for all time great RBs.

None of the other QBs in the discussion ever played behind a mediocre OL, either.

Huh? John "Most sacked QB in NFL history" Elway down?

Yes. Repeatedly.

 

[SSOG]

Sorry, man. I like much of what you have to say, SS. But when you use the term "great" so loosely as to identify Archie Manning that way, it really diminishes how the word's use is intended. Archie Manning was certainly not great. He was a good pro QB on a bad team, who's teams never had a winning season once during his career. A great QB would have found a way to win more games atleast once in his career. Cast counts for a great deal, no pun intended, but would you define Vince Young as a great QB? He's already done with a team that was the 3rd worst in the league just 2 years ago what Archie Manning was never able to do.

Vince Young's defense was one of the best in the league, and Tennessee won a lot of games IN SPITE of Young rather than BECAUSE OF Young. Only three times in Manning's career in New Orleans did he have a defense that WASN'T one of the bottom ten in the league. Also, Young's offensive line is light years ahead of Manning's. Manning, during his career, got sacked 60% more per game than Young has at this point in his career.

 

[North]

Its too early to tell. He's had a TREMENDOUS start, and if hey were to duplicate his first 7 years for the next 7... do you think there would be any ?

Nope, if he does that, then he is

can i call premature polling???

there are some claiming he is RIGHT NOW

He is RIGHT NOW!If not him who? When you answer that question then compare the stats. Brady wins every time.

 

[phthalatemagic]

no one has ever played the position better. No one.

You are very incorrect.

 

[North]

Manning is not as good as Brady under pressure

He's NOT. 2 minutes left in game and down I would rather have Brady over anyone.

 

[phthalatemagic]

Manning is not as good as Brady under pressure

He's NOT. 2 minutes left in game and down I would rather have Brady over anyone.

I'd rather have the Patriots defense, Walt Coleman and Roger Goddell on my side. Throw in some radio frequency jammers and I'd be happy with Billy Joe Hobert.

 

[twitch]

no one has ever played the position better. No one.

You are very incorrect.

slip some of that duct tape over your mouth for a while. your words here are pretty much worthless.

 

[twitch]

Sorry, man. I like much of what you have to say, SS. But when you use the term "great" so loosely as to identify Archie Manning that way, it really diminishes how the word's use is intended. Archie Manning was certainly not great. He was a good pro QB on a bad team, who's teams never had a winning season once during his career. A great QB would have found a way to win more games atleast once in his career. Cast counts for a great deal, no pun intended, but would you define Vince Young as a great QB? He's already done with a team that was the 3rd worst in the league just 2 years ago what Archie Manning was never able to do.

Vince Young's defense was one of the best in the league, and Tennessee won a lot of games IN SPITE of Young rather than BECAUSE OF Young. Only three times in Manning's career in New Orleans did he have a defense that WASN'T one of the bottom ten in the league. Also, Young's offensive line is light years ahead of Manning's. Manning, during his career, got sacked 60% more per game than Young has at this point in his career.

so your sticking with the thought that Archie Manning was a great QB? seriously? I dont need a bunch of stats and #s. I saw the man play. David Carr got sacked a ton. What's the point? The guy NEVER won more games than he lost? is that really great? Cmon. Im not real interested in traveling back 20 years in time and making excuses for the many reasons the Saints and Oilers sucked back then. Its not really necessary. Manning was simply not great.

 

[Sea Bass]

John C. Unitas!

 

[Sea Bass]

John C. Unitas!

 

[phthalatemagic]

no one has ever played the position better. No one.

You are very incorrect.

slip some of that duct tape over your mouth for a while. your words here are pretty much worthless.

Don't get personal, please.

 

[twitch]

no one has ever played the position better. No one.

You are very incorrect.

slip some of that duct tape over your mouth for a while. your words here are pretty much worthless.

Don't get personal, please.

Make a case. Say something useful. provide information. its not personal. facts are never personal. theyre simply facts.

 

[nashua55]

Montana then everyone else.....................................................

Once Brady wins this years superbowl , it will be Brady then everyone else......... To me Brady is the best I have seen under pressure. The guy is mr. cool in clutch situations. Joe Montana reign of greatest of alltime is about to come to an end. Just for the record, I am not a Patriot fan either, but to me this years Patriot team is the greatest I have seen in one season. Only team I would make an argument for is the 1985 Bears team.

 

[crnerblitz]

I voted No because I think its a bit premature to be having this discussion. The idea is also somewhat flawed. Quarterbacks of the last decade have enjoyed many rul changes designed to promote the passing game, The relaxing of O-line holding and the tightening up of pass interference. One has to wonder what Johnny U could have done with these passing parameters.

Another thing that I have come up with is a modification of the one game QB question. Lets change the question to this" If your team is down 14 pts at halftime and you could have any QB you wanted who do you choose?

My choice is easily Joe.

Yes, Tom is in the "all time" discussion, but He aint "It!" Not yet.

 

[SSOG]

so your sticking with the thought that Archie Manning was a great QB? seriously?

Yup. You make All Pro on a team that bad, you're a great QB.

 

[TwinTurbo]

I got Brady #2 behind only Montana now. If I had to start a guy for a Superbowl game, these are the two guys I would want to choose from.

 

[Perfect Tommy]

Its too early to tell. He's had a TREMENDOUS start, and if hey were to duplicate his first 7 years for the next 7... do you think there would be any ?

Nope, if he does that, then he is

can i call premature polling???

there are some claiming he is RIGHT NOW

He is RIGHT NOW!If not him who? When you answer that question then compare the stats. Brady wins every time.

OK, lets compare the big stats. Most consecutive starts? Favre

Most passing yards? Favre

Most completions? Favre

Most passing TDs? Favre

Most INT's? Favre

Most MVPs? Favre

Most 2nd place MVPs? Favre

Most 30+ TD seasons? Favre

Most times caught cheating? Brady

Most lovable? Favre

Looks to me like Brady doesn't win by comparing stats.

 

[menobrown]

Going back to their SB teams he played with what I consider average talent and all he did was win and put up decent stats. Last year he played with below average talent and he still put up decent stats and came within a bad half of going to the SB. For the first time ever he has great talent around him and he broke records and failed to lose a game. I voted Yes. I started watching football and became a football addict in 1980 and while I like Marino and some others better I think he's at least the best I ever saw.

For the record I want to say I'm a Steeler fan but I appreciate greatness. I used to argue Brady was better than Peyton way back when people thought that was an ignorant comment. From the get go his calm demeanor, awareness and accuracy jumped out at me and I've only come to appreciate that more and more. I root against Brady almost every week but I appreciate greatness and I feel he is the greatest NFL QB of all time.

 

[Baby New Year]

OK, lets compare the big stats. Most consecutive starts? FavreMost passing yards? FavreMost completions? FavreMost passing TDs? FavreMost INT's? FavreMost MVPs? FavreMost 2nd place MVPs? FavreMost 30+ TD seasons? FavreMost times caught cheating? BradyMost pills popped? FavreMost supermodels? BradyLooks to me like Brady doesn't win by comparing stats.

Fixed.Maybe winning is Brady's anti-drug.

 

[bradyfan]

OK, lets compare the big stats. Most consecutive starts? FavreMost passing yards? FavreMost completions? FavreMost passing TDs? FavreMost INT's? FavreMost MVPs? FavreMost 2nd place MVPs? FavreMost 30+ TD seasons? FavreMost times caught cheating? BradyMost lovable? FavreLooks to me like Brady doesn't win by comparing stats.

You forgot the Best Attendance Award.

 

[Dynasty]

This article was written a year ago. It's at least an effort to rank the 100 greatest QBs.

http://www.armchairgm.com/The_100_Greatest...%2C_Version_1.0

1. Johnny Unitas

2. Joe Montana

3. Fran Tarkenton

4. Dan Marino

5. John Elway

15. Peyton Manning

54. Tom Brady

Both Manning and Brady are assumed to move up significantly as their careers progress.

 

[Mr Capicollo]

"There we go, there we go, every time i talk about boxing a white mans got to pull Rocky Marciano out they ###, look, Rocky was good, but compared to Joe Lewis......"