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Kentucky Nurse Video Records Conversation As She's Fired For Refusing Vaccine ( 9/15/21 21:22 PST) (1 Viewer)

killface said:
Vaccine status and freedom lovers probably has a very strong overlap on a venn diagram.  If only they could just hurry up their process of all moving to wyoming or idaho or where ever it is.  The sooner that is done, the better 
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Lots of us got vaccinated specifically because doing so gave us the freedom to go back to our normal lives.  

 
IvanKaramazov said:
Lots of us got vaccinated specifically because doing so gave us the freedom to go back to our normal lives.  
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That's one of the reasons I got it.  It's also the community benefits of my community going back to normal

Getting vaccinated is in fact the easiest way to freedom

 
dkp993 said:
As someone who has fired hundreds of people in my working career this was handled very poorly. I’ve never once fired somebody without termination paperwork, and why they are evasive with the termination/fired aspect is strange.  What’s even more strange is they talked to HR the prior day. So how any ambiguity is going on and why they won’t clarify it is very strange and makes me wonder if they aren’t confident in their legal standings to let her/them go.   

Now as far as the drama is concerned I’ve been involved in far worse firings, so that’s pretty minimal. But IMO, vaccine mandate aside, this is poor management and leadership and would be a training video for me in how not to terminate someone.  
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I agree - this person probably was nervous and inexperienced.  Some managers feel they have to explain things, establish right/wrong, or that the termination is "for cause" - maybe for unemployment coverage reasons.  None of that should matter.  The less said the better, no reason to explain your decision.

 
dkp993 said:
It feels to me like they are trying to leverage a them “quitting” via their decision angle to protect against future lawsuits.  Basically they are trying to skirt future liability for to the decision to let them go.  It’s the only reason I can think for them being evasive and vague.  
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Maybe I need to go back and rewatch, but I recall the guy unambiguously saying “You’re terminated.” People in the corporate environment don’t generally use the words “you’re fired.”

 
Smack Tripper said:
Then why is there a staffing shortage if its not a significant number?
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The staffing shortage has been an issue since before the vaccine was even released, much less mandated, so I'm not sure what leap of logic it takes to try and connect those two.  Clinics around here were shutting down due to staffing issues a year ago when the vaccine hadn't even been released en masse.

A healthcare worker shortage is actually something I've been warning about for years now, living amongst healthcare workers.  They've all been burnt out for years, and Covid only accelerated that tenfold.

I've thought about starting a thread dedicated to it here many times but instead you may have just seen me interjecting in healthcare related threads as they pop up here with those warnings.  Such as the semi-recent one complaining about doctor wait times where I divulged what a typical day looked like for my wife.

While we sit around here "working" for 8 hours (half of which is spent on FBG), she's pulling 12 hour days of uninterrupted hustle rushing from patient to patient, interrupted to rush across town to another hospital to perform an emergency C-section that puts her 2 hours behind in her clinic despite her non-stop morning hustle.  Skipping lunch, as she does literally every day, she decides to skip charting for the rest of the day to catch up for her patients, and will instead do those 2-3 hours of charting at home after her 12 hour day instead of reading books to the kids.  Then finally catching up near the end of the day, she gets an attitude from sassy Karen who was not happy her well-visit was not on time after my wife had spent an extra 10 minutes consoling and explaining things to the prior patient, a 16 year old girl who just found out she has ovarian cancer and will never have kids.

But that kind of thing can be brushed aside compared to the know-it-alls that constantly seemingly only see a doctor to inform them that they actually know more about this than their lifelong trained professional because they "researched" it from banginbroads420 on YouTube.

I'm not going to pretend like she doesn't make good money (this is FBGs afterall) but it's not the kind of money she would keep putting up with this stuff for if she wasn't getting to help people.  Often the very same people that have an attitude with her and think they know better, then come crawling back when they've made things worse.

That was all pre-covid.  Since covid, it's only 100x worse.  She gets pulled to the front lines of it all due to so many ER docs being out sick themselves so she can grind for 12 hours a day with nary a break to even cry over the things she's seeing and the people she's seeing suffer, just so she can come home and try to de-compress on Facebook and be met with folks proudly declaring that covid isn't actually real, it's just covid doctors (like my wife) intentionally mis-coding deaths as covid deaths to drive evening news ratings while George Soros pays them under the table.

Take a guess as to whether that has gotten better or worse since the vaccine rollouts with everyone in the country suddenly becoming a vaccine expert. 

Healthcare worker shortages have been a long time coming and ironically, the I-know-more-about-doctoring-than-doctors types that are hilariously trying to point that towards vaccine mandates are the exact types that have been driving it since the invention of social media.

 
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tonydead said:
Hey everyone, get vaccinated or moops wont be your friend!   :lol:
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You can discuss the topic (and your thoughts on it) or make it personal.  Your choice.  

 
Witz said:
So you choose personal. Noted. 
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No.  He made his personal friends choice part of the discussion.  People actually not wanting to associate with people that are not vaccinated.  That's germane to the discussion and I wasn't the one that brought it to the table.  Nice try tho.  

 
tonydead said:
No.  He made his personal friends choice part of the discussion.  People actually not wanting to associate with people that are not vaccinated.  That's germane to the discussion and I wasn't the one that brought it to the table.  Nice try tho.  
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Yet you were the one making a joke about him specifically - my comment above was what you said exactly when someone made a joke at your expense. Nice try though…

 
Stealthycat said:
heck yes - power of the people is what Democrats love right? Occupy Wallstreet, Trump election nationwide rallies, BLM protests (aka riots), Defund Police ............ Democrats should be all in favor of walkouts to get what the workers want
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They did this in the Houston area at one of the first hospital systems to require vaccine mandates. An insufficient number of employees walked out to make a difference.

 
tonydead said:
No.  He made his personal friends choice part of the discussion.  People actually not wanting to associate with people that are not vaccinated.  That's germane to the discussion and I wasn't the one that brought it to the table.  Nice try tho.  
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Not what I said. If she was complaining about being fired for not wearing proper clothing, or whatever else, and she acted this same way and filmed it, I would have the same response

 
the moops said:
Not what I said. If she was complaining about being fired for not wearing proper clothing, or whatever else, and she acted this same way and filmed it, I would have the same response
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So you're letting your neighbors come over and play with your kids again then?

 
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AAABatteries said:
No real thoughts on the content of the video but why does everyone feel the need to video their life?
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It is 2021.   Thats the way everyone rolls now.

 
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Stealthycat said:
wish they'd do that with abortion

get an abortion - get fired/terminated

just a rule/requirement for employment that people cannot get abortions- its in the health interests of everyone and a civic duty
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You sure seem to like these false equivalencies. 

 
tonydead said:
You were mad at your neighbors for not letting you know they had covid symptoms.  Maybe that was Karma Police.  I get you two confused.  Apologies if I did.
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It was KP. And either way, it has nothing to do with me finding that woman irritable

 
Rubiobot said:
You sure seem to like these false equivalencies. 
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its a possibility of the future

look - just do what Fed Govt tells you to, don't question it, don't create a fuss, just do it

thats our new society - when Republican's lead the Govt again, just remember 

 
Snotbubbles said:
These healthcare workers risked their lives in 2020 treating patients with COVID without being vaccinated.  Now in 2021, they are considered a threat to the population they are treating and being fired for not being vaccinated.  As a spouse of an emergency room nurse who put her life at risk and the lives of every member of our household at risk every time she went to work, firing someone for this is unconscionable.  What is really a shame is that hospitals are so understaffed they are offering $20,000+ sign-on bonuses but not offering retention bonuses.  File healthcare workers under police officers.  Hero's one day, villains the next.  What a thankless job.       
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No one says HCW are villains.  they are still heros - always have been, always will be.  Anti-vaxxers are the villains, even if they are health care workers.

 
bigbottom said:
Maybe I need to go back and rewatch, but I recall the guy unambiguously saying “You’re terminated.” People in the corporate environment don’t generally use the words “you’re fired.”
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You are correct and I’ve never said that either but his follow up and unwillingness to clear up her “am I fired” stance reeks of fear of taking a stance.  The appropriate response to put closure and stop her “am I being fired?” questions is something along the lines of…..

”Yes you are being terminated. We are choosing to end our working relationship and you are no longer employed here as of today”.    

The key word there is “We” and it’s clearly the stance they are not wanting to take.  IMO they are clearly hoping to frame it in the future as a voluntary termination by the employees thus their unwillingness to own the decision.  This is where the ambiguity is.   

 
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CletiusMaximus said:
I agree - this person probably was nervous and inexperienced.  Some managers feel they have to explain things, establish right/wrong, or that the termination is "for cause" - maybe for unemployment coverage reasons.  None of that should matter.  The less said the better, no reason to explain your decision.
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Agreed 100%.  Over talking in these situations will almost always end poorly.  But that does not allow for lack of clarity.  You must be able to do both.  

 
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Stealthycat said:
look - just do what Fed Govt tells you to, don't question it, don't create a fuss, just do it
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I get the reluctance to do what the Fed Govt wants you to do.   I personally dislike the idea of mandates, but the anti-vax community has backed themselves into this scenerio by not following what the vast majority of the medical and scientific community says is appropriate. The anti-vax community thinks they have very nuanced arguments on what is appropriate, but frankly it seems like these arguments all distill down to ignorance and selfishness.

 
moleculo said:
I would agree that it's a fair request for her to have her termination in writing.  HR should have had that letter generated already.
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Having come from a corporate background and seen a lot of terminations I can't believe they didn't have that.

 
dkp993 said:
It feels to me like they are trying to leverage a them “quitting” via their decision angle to protect against future lawsuits.  Basically they are trying to skirt future liability for to the decision to let them go.  It’s the only reason I can think for them being evasive and vague.  
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If I had to guess, and this is pure speculation, I'd say they've had a policy in the past for terminated employees to get some form of severance based upon years of service.  That's a pretty common thing.  I would guess in this instance they are trying to say that the employees chose this course therefore they aren't entitled to that severance.  Could be totally off base but it sure felt like he was trying to avoid certain words.

 
Shula-holic said:
If I had to guess, and this is pure speculation, I'd say they've had a policy in the past for terminated employees to get some form of severance based upon years of service.  That's a pretty common thing.  I would guess in this instance they are trying to say that the employees chose this course therefore they aren't entitled to that severance.  Could be totally off base but it sure felt like he was trying to avoid certain words.
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Yep.  Completely agree.  They are obviously trying to walk a line of accountability without responsibility, that’s the definition of poor leadership and management. 

 
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Did she have Covid already and this natural immunity?  That kind of seems like an important missing piece here.  If she doesn’t have natural immunity then I have no problem with her being fired, though as others have mentioned they handled it very poorly.

 
Stealthycat said:
its a possibility of the future

look - just do what Fed Govt tells you to, don't question it, don't create a fuss, just do it

thats our new society - when Republican's lead the Govt again, just remember 
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I don't get the drama about the Fedgov. Its a private health care company. They set a policy which the employee violated.  She's termed - that's all.

 
ekbeats said:
Did she have Covid already and this natural immunity?  That kind of seems like an important missing piece here.  If she doesn’t have natural immunity then I have no problem with her being fired, though as others have mentioned they handled it very poorly.
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Why does this matter or why should it?  Its a private health care company. They set a policy which the employee violated.  She's termed - that's all.

 
CletiusMaximus said:
Why does this matter or why should it?  Its a private health care company. They set a policy which the employee violated.  She's termed - that's all.
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Nobody’s arguing they don’t have a right to fire her.  The question is whether it’s dumb or not.  A recent study out of Israel shows that natural immunity is equal to if not better than vaccinated immunity.  Aren’t we supposed to follow the science? 

 
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moleculo said:
No one says HCW are villains.  they are still heros - always have been, always will be.  Anti-vaxxers are the villains, even if they are health care workers.
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A person's vaccination status has no effect on the type of care they can give a patient.  Most of the workers in my wife's ER already had COVID from the early days of treating patients with it so they have already have built up antibodies.  

 
CletiusMaximus said:
Why does this matter or why should it?  Its a private health care company. They set a policy which the employee violated.  She's termed - that's all.
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The hospitals receive federal funding.  My wife's hospital also is the largest Medicaid hospital in the City so they receive a ton of State funding as well.

 
ekbeats said:
CletiusMaximus said:
Why does this matter or why should it?  Its a private health care company. They set a policy which the employee violated.  She's termed - that's all.
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Nobody’s arguing they don’t have a right to fire her.  The question is whether it’s dumb or not.  A recent study out of Israel shows that natural immunity is equal to if not better than vaccinated immunity.  Aren’t we supposed to follow the science? 
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Is that really the question here? Whether the company's policy is "dumb or not."  If so, I'd say its a dumb and pointless discussion. 

 
ekbeats said:
Nobody’s arguing they don’t have a right to fire her.  The question is whether it’s dumb or not.  A recent study out of Israel shows that natural immunity is equal to if not better than vaccinated immunity.  Aren’t we supposed to follow the science? 
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I am unfamiliar with the Israeli study, but if true, then yes, natural immunity should be a substitute for the vaccine. 

However, it just seems like a natural progression of political talking points at this point. First it was that the vaccine didn't have full FDA approval. Now it has progressed to the natural immunity tact. I am curious if all these people would show proof of antibodies and agree that if the tests came back as low or no immunity if they would the agree to take the vaccine. Somehow I doubt they would agree to that. 

 
Snotbubbles said:
The hospitals receive federal funding.  My wife's hospital also is the largest Medicaid hospital in the City so they receive a ton of State funding as well.
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Schools receive federal and state funding yet the vaccine requirements for children to attend those schools is settled law

 
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the moops said:
Schools receive federal and state funding yet the vaccine requirements for children to attend those schools is settled law
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Children aren't employed by the schools, teacher are.  Teachers contracts are collectively bargained for.  Part of that bargaining includes vaccination status.  Locally, our teacher unions wanted vaccine mandates included in their contract, if they didn't it wouldn't be required.  The CBA between teachers and schools is the controlling document, that is well settled law.  

 
the moops said:
I am unfamiliar with the Israeli study, but if true, then yes, natural immunity should be a substitute for the vaccine. 

However, it just seems like a natural progression of political talking points at this point. First it was that the vaccine didn't have full FDA approval. Now it has progressed to the natural immunity tact. I am curious if all these people would show proof of antibodies and agree that if the tests came back as low or no immunity if they would the agree to take the vaccine. Somehow I doubt they would agree to that. 
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To be fair it sounds like you are being very political here.  I don’t have a dog in this fight.  Whole lotta stupid on both sides.  Forcing someone to get vaccinated who has already had Covid and developed natural immunity that at least one study concludes is stronger than vaccinated immunity is just as idiotic as the anti-vax crap.

 
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