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Kiffin fired. Really. No, I'm serious (1 Viewer)

As I recall, Lane approached Davis about bringing in Monte to replace Ryan. Davis said that was tampering and had his lawyers advise the Bucs about Monte's possible interest in the Raiders and that he was not trying to recruit Monte to Oakland. I think the only conversations Davis and Monte had were to talk about how to handle Lane, not about bringing in Monte to be defensive coordinator.

Davis called Mortensen a professional liar -- good stuff. I think he hates Mortensen more than Kiffin. At the very least I think he perceives Kiffin as feeding Mortensen bogus information so that Mortensen could air it on ESPN and make the Raiders look bad (i.e. the resignation letter that Davis denies sending to Kiffin in the off-season and Mortensen reported as happening)

 
What a sad end to an NFL icon. I really hope that, after he's gone, his contributions outweigh his current insanity.

 
As I recall, Lane approached Davis about bringing in Monte to replace Ryan. Davis said that was tampering and had his lawyers advise the Bucs about Monte's possible interest in the Raiders and that he was not trying to recruit Monte to Oakland. I think the only conversations Davis and Monte had were to talk about how to handle Lane, not about bringing in Monte to be defensive coordinator.Davis called Mortensen a professional liar -- good stuff. I think he hates Mortensen more than Kiffin. At the very least I think he perceives Kiffin as feeding Mortensen bogus information so that Mortensen could air it on ESPN and make the Raiders look bad (i.e. the resignation letter that Davis denies sending to Kiffin in the off-season and Mortensen reported as happening)
It was interesting to me that Al Davis used his street smarts and claimed he knew the real reason Monte was calling was to feel out the Raiders Defensive Coordinator position. Al Davis said he knew the 'real reason' for his call with Monte was not on how to handle Lane but the Raiders Defensive Coordinator position.
 
Benny Beaver said:
What a stupid, stupid, stupid man Al Davis is. The team was clearly going in the right direction despite the heavy overspending on crappy players this past offseason. Combine a young Lane Kiffin with a GM who knows what he's doing and you'll have a respectable team for the next 20 years.But because Lane doesn't kiss his butt, Davis decides to fire the 6th coach in the last 8 years. Brilliant.
You haven't been paying attention. Aside from campaigning for the Arkansas job, while under contract, Kiffin has done everything in his power to get fired.
 
Benny Beaver said:
What a stupid, stupid, stupid man Al Davis is. The team was clearly going in the right direction despite the heavy overspending on crappy players this past offseason. Combine a young Lane Kiffin with a GM who knows what he's doing and you'll have a respectable team for the next 20 years.But because Lane doesn't kiss his butt, Davis decides to fire the 6th coach in the last 8 years. Brilliant.
You haven't been paying attention. Aside from campaigning for the Arkansas job, while under contract, Kiffin has done everything in his power to get fired .
:yes: Since when?
 
Benny Beaver said:
What a stupid, stupid, stupid man Al Davis is. The team was clearly going in the right direction despite the heavy overspending on crappy players this past offseason. Combine a young Lane Kiffin with a GM who knows what he's doing and you'll have a respectable team for the next 20 years.But because Lane doesn't kiss his butt, Davis decides to fire the 6th coach in the last 8 years. Brilliant.
You haven't been paying attention. Aside from campaigning for the Arkansas job, while under contract, Kiffin has done everything in his power to get fired.
You're gonna need to document that one.
 
Benny Beaver said:
What a stupid, stupid, stupid man Al Davis is. The team was clearly going in the right direction despite the heavy overspending on crappy players this past offseason. Combine a young Lane Kiffin with a GM who knows what he's doing and you'll have a respectable team for the next 20 years.

But because Lane doesn't kiss his butt, Davis decides to fire the 6th coach in the last 8 years. Brilliant.
You haven't been paying attention. Aside from campaigning for the Arkansas job, while under contract, Kiffin has done everything in his power to get fired .
:confused: Since when?
Since last season ended. Has bad mouthed his players, taken obvious shots at the ownership, and made a very public move to fire his DC, when he knew that needed to be signed off on by the owner. He also made it clear during the summer that he wasn't in charge, and basically said, "If this team sucks, it's not my fault." He refused to use two timeouts vs. the Bills, inexplicably, and wasted time vs. the Chargers so SeaBass could take a 76 yard FG. Both were inexcusable moves.

Check this out:

http://www.ibabuzz.com/raidersblog/2008/09...avis-to-kiffin/

A copy of the following letter was displayed on an overhead projector as owner Al Davis outlined his reasons for firing coach Lane Kiffin. Davis said the letter was sent following the Denver game and served as evidence as communication between the two. Kiffin said the two had not talked since before the Broncos game.

September 12, 2008

By Hand Delivery and Federal Express

Dear Lane:

Over the past months, you have made a number of public statements that were highly critical of, and designed to embarrass and discredit this organization, its players and its coaches. I left you alone during training camp in hopes that you would cease your immature and destructive campaign.

However, you continue to make public statements that are critical of the organization, its players as a whole as well as individual players. Such statements constitute conduct detrimental to the Raiders and I will no longer stand silently by while you continue to heart this organization.

Further, you rontract is quite clear that you work “subject to the direction and supervision of the General Partner’’ and that the General Partner has the “exclusive right to do all things, which in its sole discretion are necessary to maintain and improve the Club, the football organization and their activities.’’

I realized when I hired you that you were young and inexperienced and that there would be a learning process for you. Your mistakes on player personnel and coaches were overlooked based on our patience with you. But I never dreamt that you would be so untruthful in statements to the press as well as on so many other issues. Your actions are those of a coach looking to make excuses for not winning, rather than a coach focused on winning.

For example, with the exception of Gibril Wilson, you were involved in recruiting all free agents and determining salaries for them and you were explicit in your desire to sign Javon Walker and DeAngelo Hall amongst others. All were a must to sign in your eyes, Hall in particular, because he played for Greg Knapp in Atlanta and Knapp gave him high grades. Do not run from that now.

I do realize that you did not want to draft JaMarcus Russell. He is a great player. Get over it and coach this team on the field, that is what you were hired to do. We can win with this team!

In regards to your recent fabrications about the defense, during the final cuts you made every cut on offense and every cut on defense except for Wakefield on defense and Wand on offense. Further more, during the game Monday night Rob played your Cover 2 defense and we got killed on an approximately 50-yard touchdown pass and approximately 70-yard gain that led to a field goal.

You meet every week with the defensive coaches to go over both the past game and to get a general feel for what will happen during the week in practice. You have the ability and authority to provide your input during those meetings and the preparation fo the game plan. I do not have weekly meetings with Rob _ you do.

During the week no one has ever gold you what to do on either offense or defense. In addition, no one has ever told you during a game what to do on either offense or defense and you call every play on offense. During a game if you want to blitz more, all you have to do is let Rob know what blitz you want and he will do it.

Although you continue to use the media to express your dissatisfaction with others, no one has publicly pointed out to you that in 4 preseason games and one regular season game played this year, your offense has scored one first half touchdown. That put tremendous pressure on the defense.

I know hta tyou wanted to bring your father in to run the defense and that Monte told me he wanted to come here even though he is under contract to Tampa. However, I did not wan to tamper with another team. In any event that was over seven months ago. Do not also run from the defense and your responsibilities.

This letter constitutes notice that if you further violate any term of your contract, in any manner whatsoever, you will be terminated for cause. I trust that this will not occur.

A.D. Football, Inc.

By: (Al Davis signature)

 
Benny Beaver said:
What a stupid, stupid, stupid man Al Davis is. The team was clearly going in the right direction despite the heavy overspending on crappy players this past offseason. Combine a young Lane Kiffin with a GM who knows what he's doing and you'll have a respectable team for the next 20 years.

But because Lane doesn't kiss his butt, Davis decides to fire the 6th coach in the last 8 years. Brilliant.
You haven't been paying attention. Aside from campaigning for the Arkansas job, while under contract, Kiffin has done everything in his power to get fired .
:kicksrock: Since when?
Since last season ended. Has bad mouthed his players, taken obvious shots at the ownership, and made a very public move to fire his DC, when he knew that needed to be signed off on by the owner. He also made it clear during the summer that he wasn't in charge, and basically said, "If this team sucks, it's not my fault." He refused to use two timeouts vs. the Bills, inexplicably, and wasted time vs. the Chargers so SeaBass could take a 76 yard FG. Both were inexcusable moves.

Check this out:

http://www.ibabuzz.com/raidersblog/2008/09...avis-to-kiffin/

A copy of the following letter was displayed on an overhead projector as owner Al Davis outlined his reasons for firing coach Lane Kiffin. Davis said the letter was sent following the Denver game and served as evidence as communication between the two. Kiffin said the two had not talked since before the Broncos game.

September 12, 2008

By Hand Delivery and Federal Express

Dear Lane:

Over the past months, you have made a number of public statements that were highly critical of, and designed to embarrass and discredit this organization, its players and its coaches. I left you alone during training camp in hopes that you would cease your immature and destructive campaign.

However, you continue to make public statements that are critical of the organization, its players as a whole as well as individual players. Such statements constitute conduct detrimental to the Raiders and I will no longer stand silently by while you continue to heart this organization.

Further, you rontract is quite clear that you work “subject to the direction and supervision of the General Partner’’ and that the General Partner has the “exclusive right to do all things, which in its sole discretion are necessary to maintain and improve the Club, the football organization and their activities.’’

I realized when I hired you that you were young and inexperienced and that there would be a learning process for you. Your mistakes on player personnel and coaches were overlooked based on our patience with you. But I never dreamt that you would be so untruthful in statements to the press as well as on so many other issues. Your actions are those of a coach looking to make excuses for not winning, rather than a coach focused on winning.

For example, with the exception of Gibril Wilson, you were involved in recruiting all free agents and determining salaries for them and you were explicit in your desire to sign Javon Walker and DeAngelo Hall amongst others. All were a must to sign in your eyes, Hall in particular, because he played for Greg Knapp in Atlanta and Knapp gave him high grades. Do not run from that now.

I do realize that you did not want to draft JaMarcus Russell. He is a great player. Get over it and coach this team on the field, that is what you were hired to do. We can win with this team!

In regards to your recent fabrications about the defense, during the final cuts you made every cut on offense and every cut on defense except for Wakefield on defense and Wand on offense. Further more, during the game Monday night Rob played your Cover 2 defense and we got killed on an approximately 50-yard touchdown pass and approximately 70-yard gain that led to a field goal.

You meet every week with the defensive coaches to go over both the past game and to get a general feel for what will happen during the week in practice. You have the ability and authority to provide your input during those meetings and the preparation fo the game plan. I do not have weekly meetings with Rob _ you do.

During the week no one has ever gold you what to do on either offense or defense. In addition, no one has ever told you during a game what to do on either offense or defense and you call every play on offense. During a game if you want to blitz more, all you have to do is let Rob know what blitz you want and he will do it.

Although you continue to use the media to express your dissatisfaction with others, no one has publicly pointed out to you that in 4 preseason games and one regular season game played this year, your offense has scored one first half touchdown. That put tremendous pressure on the defense.

I know hta tyou wanted to bring your father in to run the defense and that Monte told me he wanted to come here even though he is under contract to Tampa. However, I did not wan to tamper with another team. In any event that was over seven months ago. Do not also run from the defense and your responsibilities.

This letter constitutes notice that if you further violate any term of your contract, in any manner whatsoever, you will be terminated for cause. I trust that this will not occur.

A.D. Football, Inc.

By: (Al Davis signature)
If all this is true why do the players AND staff like lane so much??? :thumbup:
 
Benny Beaver said:
What a stupid, stupid, stupid man Al Davis is. The team was clearly going in the right direction despite the heavy overspending on crappy players this past offseason. Combine a young Lane Kiffin with a GM who knows what he's doing and you'll have a respectable team for the next 20 years.

But because Lane doesn't kiss his butt, Davis decides to fire the 6th coach in the last 8 years. Brilliant.
You haven't been paying attention. Aside from campaigning for the Arkansas job, while under contract, Kiffin has done everything in his power to get fired .
:lmao: Since when?
Since last season ended. Has bad mouthed his players, taken obvious shots at the ownership, and made a very public move to fire his DC, when he knew that needed to be signed off on by the owner. He also made it clear during the summer that he wasn't in charge, and basically said, "If this team sucks, it's not my fault." He refused to use two timeouts vs. the Bills, inexplicably, and wasted time vs. the Chargers so SeaBass could take a 76 yard FG. Both were inexcusable moves.

Check this out:

http://www.ibabuzz.com/raidersblog/2008/09...avis-to-kiffin/

A copy of the following letter was displayed on an overhead projector as owner Al Davis outlined his reasons for firing coach Lane Kiffin. Davis said the letter was sent following the Denver game and served as evidence as communication between the two. Kiffin said the two had not talked since before the Broncos game.

September 12, 2008

By Hand Delivery and Federal Express

Dear Lane:

Over the past months, you have made a number of public statements that were highly critical of, and designed to embarrass and discredit this organization, its players and its coaches. I left you alone during training camp in hopes that you would cease your immature and destructive campaign.

However, you continue to make public statements that are critical of the organization, its players as a whole as well as individual players. Such statements constitute conduct detrimental to the Raiders and I will no longer stand silently by while you continue to heart this organization.

Further, you rontract is quite clear that you work “subject to the direction and supervision of the General Partner’’ and that the General Partner has the “exclusive right to do all things, which in its sole discretion are necessary to maintain and improve the Club, the football organization and their activities.’’

I realized when I hired you that you were young and inexperienced and that there would be a learning process for you. Your mistakes on player personnel and coaches were overlooked based on our patience with you. But I never dreamt that you would be so untruthful in statements to the press as well as on so many other issues. Your actions are those of a coach looking to make excuses for not winning, rather than a coach focused on winning.

For example, with the exception of Gibril Wilson, you were involved in recruiting all free agents and determining salaries for them and you were explicit in your desire to sign Javon Walker and DeAngelo Hall amongst others. All were a must to sign in your eyes, Hall in particular, because he played for Greg Knapp in Atlanta and Knapp gave him high grades. Do not run from that now.

I do realize that you did not want to draft JaMarcus Russell. He is a great player. Get over it and coach this team on the field, that is what you were hired to do. We can win with this team!

In regards to your recent fabrications about the defense, during the final cuts you made every cut on offense and every cut on defense except for Wakefield on defense and Wand on offense. Further more, during the game Monday night Rob played your Cover 2 defense and we got killed on an approximately 50-yard touchdown pass and approximately 70-yard gain that led to a field goal.

You meet every week with the defensive coaches to go over both the past game and to get a general feel for what will happen during the week in practice. You have the ability and authority to provide your input during those meetings and the preparation fo the game plan. I do not have weekly meetings with Rob _ you do.

During the week no one has ever gold you what to do on either offense or defense. In addition, no one has ever told you during a game what to do on either offense or defense and you call every play on offense. During a game if you want to blitz more, all you have to do is let Rob know what blitz you want and he will do it.

Although you continue to use the media to express your dissatisfaction with others, no one has publicly pointed out to you that in 4 preseason games and one regular season game played this year, your offense has scored one first half touchdown. That put tremendous pressure on the defense.

I know hta tyou wanted to bring your father in to run the defense and that Monte told me he wanted to come here even though he is under contract to Tampa. However, I did not wan to tamper with another team. In any event that was over seven months ago. Do not also run from the defense and your responsibilities.

This letter constitutes notice that if you further violate any term of your contract, in any manner whatsoever, you will be terminated for cause. I trust that this will not occur.

A.D. Football, Inc.

By: (Al Davis signature)
If all this is true why do the players AND staff like lane so much??? :thumbup:
Have you heard the players campaigning for Lane to keep his job? I haven't. I made this comment in the other thread:

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...t&p=9260341

And Al Davis confirmed some suspicions I mentioned in that post:

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/09/30/...opaganda-lying/

DAVIS ACCUSES KIFFIN OF PROPAGANDA, LYING

Posted by Mike Florio on September 30, 2008, 5:34 p.m. EDT

At the outset of a stunningly candid press conference regarding the team’s decision to fire coach Lane Kiffin, Raiders owner Al Davis explained that Kiffin was fired for “propanganda” and “lying” that had gone on for months. Kiffin was “bringing disgrace to the organization,” Davis said, calling Kiffin on multiple times a “flat-out liar.”

One thing is clear to us: The 79-year-old Davis still seems to be as sharp mentally as he ever has been, and we tend to believe every word he’s saying.

He claims that Kiffin at some point got the idea in his head that he could get out of his contract and still get paid, and that Kiffin tried to accomplish it by complaining regularly about his situation.

Davis went on to read from a three-page letter given to Kiffin on the Friday before the Week Two game against the Chiefs, which letter was prompted by Kiffin’s comments that he has no involvement in the defense, and that coordinator Rob Ryan works directly with Davis on this point.

Also, Davis said that Kiffin called every play on offense during his time with the team, and that he split the play-calling duties with an unnamed assistant coach on Sunday against the Chargers.

After the Week Three loss to the Bills, Davis said that he asked Kiffin point-blank why he didn’t use his final two time outs. “He takes exception when you question him,” Davis said.

Davis then made a snide remark regarding the 76-yard-field goal attempt at the end of the first half of the Week Four loss to the Chargers, which prompted us to question whether Kiffin was trying to get himself fired.

Asked whether Kiffin was daring Davis to fire him, Davis said, “That’s a good question.”

The rift apparently arose seven months ago. Davis said that Kiffin wanted to his father, Monte Kiffin, to run the defense — and that Monte Kiffin wanted to do it. Davis claims that the Raiders opted not to pursue the elder Kiffin because he was under contract with the Bucs.

Davis claims that Lane Kiffin wanted to fire defensive coordinator Rob Ryan after the 2007 season. “I can’t win with this guy,” Kiffin supposedly told Davis.

Davis said that Kiffin didn’t want to draft quarterback JaMarcus Russell, because Kiffin thought he’d be the “overweight guy” and the “uninterested guy.”

Said Kiffin after the 2007 season (per Davis), “We can’t win with this.”

Davis also confirmed that Kiffin wanted the Arkansas job, which Kiffin previously denied. Lane was “upset as hell” about it when Bobby Petrino left Atlanta to get the job. Kiffin then supposedly targeted another college job.

As to reports that Kiffin was presented with a letter of resignation, Davis said that the document was an attempt to resolve Kiffin’s situation if he were to get another job, at the college level. Davis said that Kiffin, whom he called a “professional liar,” then turned that into a claim that Davis had presented him with a resignation letter.

Davis ended his remarks, before fielding questions, by stating unequivocally that the team will rebound from this, and that the Raiders will win.

Frankly, we were riveted by the press conference. Davis rarely speaks publicly, but when he does he brings the heat. And we get the sense that he treats his people well, if they are willing to treats others well, too. Particularly compelling to us were comments from Davis regarding his desire that long-term players not simply be discarded, and that Kiffin take care of ex-Raiders.

Davis has a clear passion for his team, and we have a newfound affection for Davis, and for the Raiders. Though there are problems with the franchise that need to be addressed, Davis deserves our deference and respect, and we’re more than happy to give it to him.

The Arkansas thing is enough. leaving alone the public hanging out to dry of his plaeyrs and defensive coordinator. the fact that he was seeking a college joib one year into his Raider tenure is all I need to know that Davis is not blameless here.

 
I have heard a lot of claims that Lane bad mouthed players, wanted the arkansas job, bad mouthed the org, bad mouthed Ryan. All of these claims, to the best of my knowledge, come from Davis, who's desperately trying to justify his actions. Even in the two articles you post, almost every allegation comes directly from Al's mouth, with no evidence/quote/link.

Hey, I don't pretend to have inside knowledge, but I've seen nothing to make me think that this isn't, at best, mostly Al's fault. The interview with Asomugha on NFL network only confirmed that in my mind. Not to mention 5 coaches in 6 years. At some point time, the mirror has to come into play.

 
I have heard a lot of claims that Lane bad mouthed players, wanted the arkansas job, bad mouthed the org, bad mouthed Ryan. All of these claims, to the best of my knowledge, come from Davis, who's desperately trying to justify his actions. Even in the two articles you post, almost every allegation comes directly from Al's mouth, with no evidence/quote/link.Hey, I don't pretend to have inside knowledge, but I've seen nothing to make me think that this isn't, at best, mostly Al's fault. The interview with Asomugha on NFL network only confirmed that in my mind. Not to mention 5 coaches in 6 years. At some point time, the mirror has to come into play.
"Came from Davis"??? When? This is his first public statement since Lane was fired. The Arkansas stuff? That didn't come from Al. Bad-mouthing his team? It's been going on since last spring, in his press conferences and interviews. That came from Lane, his comments, in print and on video.If you want to dig through his comments, feel free, I have personally posted them in the Raiders offseason thread and the Raiders 2008 season thread. You won't have to look far, just start last from last January, when he wanted the Arkansas job, didn't get it, and refused to wear Raider gear to the Senior Bowl and most of the offseason.You asked for me to back up my stance, I did, then you just ignore it? Why not just say, "I have no idea, but I think it's all Al's fault, no matter what anyone says...."Read the first link I posted. I made mention of Lane bad-mouthing his team BEFORE Al accused him of the same thing. Do you think I am just telepathic?
 
This is from jerry macDonald, the best Raider beat writer and about as far from an Al Davis jockswinger as you will find:

McDonald: Kiffin-Davis relationship doomed from the start

http://www.insidebayarea.com/raiders/ci_10595392

By Jerry McDonald

Oakland Tribune

If Lane Kiffin had displayed the tact and people skills during his previous 614 days as Raiders coach that he during his final press conference Monday, he wouldn't be out of a job.

Kiffin even instituted a new policy _ no more commenting about his conversations with Al Davis. And wouldn't you know it? Davis, Medianews beat writer Steve Corkran is reporting, was interviewing potential successors several hours later.

The same Davis, you'll recall, who tried to sell the idea less than two years ago that Kiffin was his man all along, even though his initial target, Steve Sarkisian, said, ``Thanks, but no thanks.''

Kiffin had come to Oakland as a potential offensive coordinator for Sarkisian, only to end up being the 31-year-old coach of the Raiders after being turned down by the University of Minnesota.

Neither man came through this looking good. Davis keeps turning over coaches as if they were fast food fry cooks, ruining continuity.

Kiffin didn't help his odds by being, well, Kiffin.

Davis sold the Kiffin hire by saying the was a better all-round coach than Jon Gruden. Kiffin knew defense. He saw the whole. He was an astute judge of talent from his background as recruiting coordinator at USC.

All the hearts and flowers hid the fact that this relationship was doomed to failure.

Kiffin didn't know enough about Davis, and naively assumed he would be free to operate as a normal head coach.

Davis didn't know enough about Kiffin, believing the kid would be grateful to learn the intricacies of the professional game from a living legend.

Both were adept at keeping agendas hidden.

Kiffin didn't have a middle-man or a confidant to deal with Davis like Bruce Allen, and even if he did, it might not have mattered. Kiffin could talk X's and O's with Davis, but wasn't much of a people person.

If you're going to carry yourself within the building like Bill Belichick or Nick Saban, you'd better have their credentials.

When Aaron Rodgers was holding private workouts at Cal for teams before the 2005 draft, I met with Gruden and Allen at Ricky's Sports Bar to finalize plans to sit in on the workout and interview process the next day.

A couple of Raiders employees and prominent ex-Raiders stopped by to visit, have a couple of cold ones, tell stories and renew friendships, all of them fearful of being exposed to Davis as being in the same room as Gruden.

That's where Gruden had it all over Kiffin. He didn't just motivate the team, he got most everyone in the building jazzed. He could fire up an intern as well as Jerry Rice. Even if you're of the belief it was contrived, it worked.

Kiffin would be hard-pressed to fill a corner table with two chairs even if he were buying the first round.

The media enjoyed Kiffin's calculated candor, but other than the coaches he got to hire and a lot of players, he wasn't particularly well-liked. He couldn't be bothered with anyone who wasn't in his circle.

If Davis had done any research beyond their initial interviews, he would have spotted some red flags.

While working on background information for a profile on the Raiders new coach, Chris Kiffin told me that his brother was nothing like their father Monte, a gregarious personality who charmed everyone he met.

``Lane knows he needs to work on his people skills,'' is the way Chris Kiffin put it.

Kiffin had a small group of close friends who swear by him. Outsiders thought him to be distant, arrogant and condescending, and he didn't win any popularity contests at USC.

When Davis anointed him as the new prodigy, Kiffin believed him. Then Kiffin was guilty of being 4-12, and somehow didn't realize he was going to have to rebuild his standing with the boss.

Kiffin took the offensive, wanting Rob Ryan out as defensive coordinator and telling Davis how to fix his franchise. Davis thought Kiffin wasn't accepting responsibility.

The rest is now history. Kiffin was stripped of his power, told to interview James Lofton as an assistant and then informed of his hiring by a third party. He refused to quit and decided to start returning fire through the media.

So here we go again _ the eighth head coach in 14 seasons since the Raiders returned to Oakland in 1995.

The sad fact is with Gruden being the only exception and Bill Callahan succeeding for a year as a care-taker, Davis is worse at picking coaches than he is at putting together a football team.

__________________

 
I have heard a lot of claims that Lane bad mouthed players, wanted the arkansas job, bad mouthed the org, bad mouthed Ryan. All of these claims, to the best of my knowledge, come from Davis, who's desperately trying to justify his actions. Even in the two articles you post, almost every allegation comes directly from Al's mouth, with no evidence/quote/link.Hey, I don't pretend to have inside knowledge, but I've seen nothing to make me think that this isn't, at best, mostly Al's fault. The interview with Asomugha on NFL network only confirmed that in my mind. Not to mention 5 coaches in 6 years. At some point time, the mirror has to come into play.
"Came from Davis"??? When? This is his first public statement since Lane was fired. The Arkansas stuff? That didn't come from Al. Bad-mouthing his team? It's been going on since last spring, in his press conferences and interviews. That came from Lane, his comments, in print and on video.If you want to dig through his comments, feel free, I have personally posted them in the Raiders offseason thread and the Raiders 2008 season thread. You won't have to look far, just start last from last January, when he wanted the Arkansas job, didn't get it, and refused to wear Raider gear to the Senior Bowl and most of the offseason.You asked for me to back up my stance, I did, then you just ignore it? Why not just say, "I have no idea, but I think it's all Al's fault, no matter what anyone says...."Read the first link I posted. I made mention of Lane bad-mouthing his team BEFORE Al accused him of the same thing. Do you think I am just telepathic?
Dude, simmer. I didn't ignore anything, I just read what I saw poste IN THIS THREAD. I'll read your links, but most of THE TEXT you posted was comments from Al's point of view and some letter that could have been written at anytime.. Sorry, I haven't been riveted to your posts in the Raiders season threads, I have my own team to follow. And I think I might know a thing or two about the whole NFL coach to Arkansas theory, so just calm down, I know you're upset, been there and done that. I survived 30 years of Rankin Smith.
 
Al was surprisingly cogent. I'm back on his side.

Tom Cable may not be Vince Lombardi... but listening to him talk for five minutes, I want to run through a wall for him!

:blackdot:

 
I have heard a lot of claims that Lane bad mouthed players, wanted the arkansas job, bad mouthed the org, bad mouthed Ryan. All of these claims, to the best of my knowledge, come from Davis, who's desperately trying to justify his actions. Even in the two articles you post, almost every allegation comes directly from Al's mouth, with no evidence/quote/link.Hey, I don't pretend to have inside knowledge, but I've seen nothing to make me think that this isn't, at best, mostly Al's fault. The interview with Asomugha on NFL network only confirmed that in my mind. Not to mention 5 coaches in 6 years. At some point time, the mirror has to come into play.
"Came from Davis"??? When? This is his first public statement since Lane was fired. The Arkansas stuff? That didn't come from Al. Bad-mouthing his team? It's been going on since last spring, in his press conferences and interviews. That came from Lane, his comments, in print and on video.If you want to dig through his comments, feel free, I have personally posted them in the Raiders offseason thread and the Raiders 2008 season thread. You won't have to look far, just start last from last January, when he wanted the Arkansas job, didn't get it, and refused to wear Raider gear to the Senior Bowl and most of the offseason.You asked for me to back up my stance, I did, then you just ignore it? Why not just say, "I have no idea, but I think it's all Al's fault, no matter what anyone says...."Read the first link I posted. I made mention of Lane bad-mouthing his team BEFORE Al accused him of the same thing. Do you think I am just telepathic?
Dude, simmer. I didn't ignore anything, I just read what I saw poste IN THIS THREAD. I'll read your links, but most of THE TEXT you posted was comments from Al's point of view and some letter that could have been written at anytime.. Sorry, I haven't been riveted to your posts in the Raiders season threads, I have my own team to follow. And I think I might know a thing or two about the whole NFL coach to Arkansas theory, so just calm down, I know you're upset, been there and done that. I survived 30 years of Rankin Smith.
Fair enough.
 
Capella said:
Being a Raiders fan just has to be the worst right now. I used to give Raider Nation (the FBG, not the nation) a lot of crap. I can't anymore, I'm sorry dude.Being a fan of this team is the sports equivalent of aids.
And yet, your defensive coordinator was begging to come here. How's THAT taste? :blackdot:
 
I have heard a lot of claims that Lane bad mouthed players, wanted the arkansas job, bad mouthed the org, bad mouthed Ryan. All of these claims, to the best of my knowledge, come from Davis, who's desperately trying to justify his actions. Even in the two articles you post, almost every allegation comes directly from Al's mouth, with no evidence/quote/link.Hey, I don't pretend to have inside knowledge, but I've seen nothing to make me think that this isn't, at best, mostly Al's fault. The interview with Asomugha on NFL network only confirmed that in my mind. Not to mention 5 coaches in 6 years. At some point time, the mirror has to come into play.
"Came from Davis"??? When? This is his first public statement since Lane was fired. The Arkansas stuff? That didn't come from Al. Bad-mouthing his team? It's been going on since last spring, in his press conferences and interviews. That came from Lane, his comments, in print and on video.If you want to dig through his comments, feel free, I have personally posted them in the Raiders offseason thread and the Raiders 2008 season thread. You won't have to look far, just start last from last January, when he wanted the Arkansas job, didn't get it, and refused to wear Raider gear to the Senior Bowl and most of the offseason.You asked for me to back up my stance, I did, then you just ignore it? Why not just say, "I have no idea, but I think it's all Al's fault, no matter what anyone says...."Read the first link I posted. I made mention of Lane bad-mouthing his team BEFORE Al accused him of the same thing. Do you think I am just telepathic?
Dude, simmer. I didn't ignore anything, I just read what I saw poste IN THIS THREAD. I'll read your links, but most of THE TEXT you posted was comments from Al's point of view and some letter that could have been written at anytime.. Sorry, I haven't been riveted to your posts in the Raiders season threads, I have my own team to follow. And I think I might know a thing or two about the whole NFL coach to Arkansas theory, so just calm down, I know you're upset, been there and done that. I survived 30 years of Rankin Smith.
Fair enough.
Thanks for being excellent. I'll read your stuff in the AM with more coffee and less rum. :rolleyes:
 
I have heard a lot of claims that Lane bad mouthed players, wanted the arkansas job, bad mouthed the org, bad mouthed Ryan. All of these claims, to the best of my knowledge, come from Davis, who's desperately trying to justify his actions. Even in the two articles you post, almost every allegation comes directly from Al's mouth, with no evidence/quote/link.Hey, I don't pretend to have inside knowledge, but I've seen nothing to make me think that this isn't, at best, mostly Al's fault. The interview with Asomugha on NFL network only confirmed that in my mind. Not to mention 5 coaches in 6 years. At some point time, the mirror has to come into play.
"Came from Davis"??? When? This is his first public statement since Lane was fired. The Arkansas stuff? That didn't come from Al. Bad-mouthing his team? It's been going on since last spring, in his press conferences and interviews. That came from Lane, his comments, in print and on video.If you want to dig through his comments, feel free, I have personally posted them in the Raiders offseason thread and the Raiders 2008 season thread. You won't have to look far, just start last from last January, when he wanted the Arkansas job, didn't get it, and refused to wear Raider gear to the Senior Bowl and most of the offseason.You asked for me to back up my stance, I did, then you just ignore it? Why not just say, "I have no idea, but I think it's all Al's fault, no matter what anyone says...."Read the first link I posted. I made mention of Lane bad-mouthing his team BEFORE Al accused him of the same thing. Do you think I am just telepathic?
Dude, simmer. I didn't ignore anything, I just read what I saw poste IN THIS THREAD. I'll read your links, but most of THE TEXT you posted was comments from Al's point of view and some letter that could have been written at anytime.. Sorry, I haven't been riveted to your posts in the Raiders season threads, I have my own team to follow. And I think I might know a thing or two about the whole NFL coach to Arkansas theory, so just calm down, I know you're upset, been there and done that. I survived 30 years of Rankin Smith.
Fair enough.
Thanks for being excellent. I'll read your stuff in the AM with more coffee and less rum. :rolleyes:
Yeah, sorry bout that, I know you're good people. Bit of a tense day.
 
I have heard a lot of claims that Lane bad mouthed players, wanted the arkansas job, bad mouthed the org, bad mouthed Ryan. All of these claims, to the best of my knowledge, come from Davis, who's desperately trying to justify his actions. Even in the two articles you post, almost every allegation comes directly from Al's mouth, with no evidence/quote/link.Hey, I don't pretend to have inside knowledge, but I've seen nothing to make me think that this isn't, at best, mostly Al's fault. The interview with Asomugha on NFL network only confirmed that in my mind. Not to mention 5 coaches in 6 years. At some point time, the mirror has to come into play.
I saw that interview with Aso and he clearly states that the PLAYERS all liked Kiffen and loved the winning attitude he brought to the team. Cable himself on the stage sitting next to his boss Davis who just fired kiffen and called him a flat out lire was praising kiffen and saying how much he and the whole staff loved working for him...soooo i dont know massraider...i think your wrong bro`.
 
I have heard a lot of claims that Lane bad mouthed players, wanted the arkansas job, bad mouthed the org, bad mouthed Ryan. All of these claims, to the best of my knowledge, come from Davis, who's desperately trying to justify his actions. Even in the two articles you post, almost every allegation comes directly from Al's mouth, with no evidence/quote/link.

Hey, I don't pretend to have inside knowledge, but I've seen nothing to make me think that this isn't, at best, mostly Al's fault. The interview with Asomugha on NFL network only confirmed that in my mind. Not to mention 5 coaches in 6 years. At some point time, the mirror has to come into play.
I saw that interview with Aso and he clearly states that the PLAYERS all liked Kiffen and loved the winning attitude he brought to the team. Cable himself on the stage sitting next to his boss Davis who just fired kiffen and called him a flat out lire was praising kiffen and saying how much he and the whole staff loved working for him...soooo i dont know massraider...i think your wrong bro`.
Asomougha also said before the firing that he would only go to Davis and back Kiffin if the players asked him to. I am unaware of that happening. I am not denying that some people liked Kiffin. Heck, I liked him. I wanted him to stay. But Davis confirming Kiffin's interest in the Arkansas job places things in a new light. Because everything seemed fine up until that point. I didn't think anything of the Arkansas rumors, because we were all assuming Al was sick of him for whatever reason. Lo and behold, Al sent Kiffin the resignation letter, in case Kiffin wanted out to go to Arkansas. (BTW, this is very similar to the Gruden thing, when everyone assumes Al drove Gruden away. The Tampa job came up, Gruden wanted it, and Al asked him if he wanted to leave. Gruden said yes, Al made the deal. That's from Gruden's book, BTW).

Kiffin being likable is a lot less important to me than if he's a good coach, and wanted to be in Oakland. He wanted out, and behaved like a guy trying to get fired. He used the Raiders, and all the old Al Davis jokes in the world won't change that.

 
i just hope Jerry Jones doesn't become Al Davis. he's close, but still about a decade off

the best part was referencing lack of production in preseason games.

also i wonder if JJ was the guy that called Al Davis about lane kiffin.

jerry is a very big guy at arkansas, and is friends with Al

 
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I have heard a lot of claims that Lane bad mouthed players, wanted the arkansas job, bad mouthed the org, bad mouthed Ryan. All of these claims, to the best of my knowledge, come from Davis, who's desperately trying to justify his actions. Even in the two articles you post, almost every allegation comes directly from Al's mouth, with no evidence/quote/link.

Hey, I don't pretend to have inside knowledge, but I've seen nothing to make me think that this isn't, at best, mostly Al's fault. The interview with Asomugha on NFL network only confirmed that in my mind. Not to mention 5 coaches in 6 years. At some point time, the mirror has to come into play.
I saw that interview with Aso and he clearly states that the PLAYERS all liked Kiffen and loved the winning attitude he brought to the team. Cable himself on the stage sitting next to his boss Davis who just fired kiffen and called him a flat out lire was praising kiffen and saying how much he and the whole staff loved working for him...soooo i dont know massraider...i think your wrong bro`.
Asomougha also said before the firing that he would only go to Davis and back Kiffin if the players asked him to. I am unaware of that happening. I am not denying that some people liked Kiffin. Heck, I liked him. I wanted him to stay. But Davis confirming Kiffin's interest in the Arkansas job places things in a new light. Because everything seemed fine up until that point. I didn't think anything of the Arkansas rumors, because we were all assuming Al was sick of him for whatever reason. Lo and behold, Al sent Kiffin the resignation letter, in case Kiffin wanted out to go to Arkansas. (BTW, this is very similar to the Gruden thing, when everyone assumes Al drove Gruden away. The Tampa job came up, Gruden wanted it, and Al asked him if he wanted to leave. Gruden said yes, Al made the deal. That's from Gruden's book, BTW).

Kiffin being likable is a lot less important to me than if he's a good coach, and wanted to be in Oakland. He wanted out, and behaved like a guy trying to get fired. He used the Raiders, and all the old Al Davis jokes in the world won't change that.
Used them for what? I am not following you there.
 
I have heard a lot of claims that Lane bad mouthed players, wanted the arkansas job, bad mouthed the org, bad mouthed Ryan. All of these claims, to the best of my knowledge, come from Davis, who's desperately trying to justify his actions. Even in the two articles you post, almost every allegation comes directly from Al's mouth, with no evidence/quote/link.

Hey, I don't pretend to have inside knowledge, but I've seen nothing to make me think that this isn't, at best, mostly Al's fault. The interview with Asomugha on NFL network only confirmed that in my mind. Not to mention 5 coaches in 6 years. At some point time, the mirror has to come into play.
I saw that interview with Aso and he clearly states that the PLAYERS all liked Kiffen and loved the winning attitude he brought to the team. Cable himself on the stage sitting next to his boss Davis who just fired kiffen and called him a flat out lire was praising kiffen and saying how much he and the whole staff loved working for him...soooo i dont know massraider...i think your wrong bro`.
Asomougha also said before the firing that he would only go to Davis and back Kiffin if the players asked him to. I am unaware of that happening. I am not denying that some people liked Kiffin. Heck, I liked him. I wanted him to stay. But Davis confirming Kiffin's interest in the Arkansas job places things in a new light. Because everything seemed fine up until that point. I didn't think anything of the Arkansas rumors, because we were all assuming Al was sick of him for whatever reason. Lo and behold, Al sent Kiffin the resignation letter, in case Kiffin wanted out to go to Arkansas. (BTW, this is very similar to the Gruden thing, when everyone assumes Al drove Gruden away. The Tampa job came up, Gruden wanted it, and Al asked him if he wanted to leave. Gruden said yes, Al made the deal. That's from Gruden's book, BTW).

Kiffin being likable is a lot less important to me than if he's a good coach, and wanted to be in Oakland. He wanted out, and behaved like a guy trying to get fired. He used the Raiders, and all the old Al Davis jokes in the world won't change that.
Used them for what? I am not following you there.
The guy was a co-offensive coordinator in college before this job. He coached for one year, raised his profile, and then began looking for college HC jobs. Fact is, coaching for the Raiders is a nice stepping stone. A lot of people liked what he did his rookie year, me included. When you coach for the Raiders, you get any credit for things that go right, and Davis gets all the blame when something goes wrong.

Coaching the Raiders, then getting fired, saved him about 10 years of paying his dues at the college level.

 
I have heard a lot of claims that Lane bad mouthed players, wanted the arkansas job, bad mouthed the org, bad mouthed Ryan. All of these claims, to the best of my knowledge, come from Davis, who's desperately trying to justify his actions. Even in the two articles you post, almost every allegation comes directly from Al's mouth, with no evidence/quote/link.

Hey, I don't pretend to have inside knowledge, but I've seen nothing to make me think that this isn't, at best, mostly Al's fault. The interview with Asomugha on NFL network only confirmed that in my mind. Not to mention 5 coaches in 6 years. At some point time, the mirror has to come into play.
I saw that interview with Aso and he clearly states that the PLAYERS all liked Kiffen and loved the winning attitude he brought to the team. Cable himself on the stage sitting next to his boss Davis who just fired kiffen and called him a flat out lire was praising kiffen and saying how much he and the whole staff loved working for him...soooo i dont know massraider...i think your wrong bro`.
Asomougha also said before the firing that he would only go to Davis and back Kiffin if the players asked him to. I am unaware of that happening. I am not denying that some people liked Kiffin. Heck, I liked him. I wanted him to stay. But Davis confirming Kiffin's interest in the Arkansas job places things in a new light. Because everything seemed fine up until that point. I didn't think anything of the Arkansas rumors, because we were all assuming Al was sick of him for whatever reason. Lo and behold, Al sent Kiffin the resignation letter, in case Kiffin wanted out to go to Arkansas. (BTW, this is very similar to the Gruden thing, when everyone assumes Al drove Gruden away. The Tampa job came up, Gruden wanted it, and Al asked him if he wanted to leave. Gruden said yes, Al made the deal. That's from Gruden's book, BTW).

Kiffin being likable is a lot less important to me than if he's a good coach, and wanted to be in Oakland. He wanted out, and behaved like a guy trying to get fired. He used the Raiders, and all the old Al Davis jokes in the world won't change that.
Used them for what? I am not following you there.
The guy was a co-offensive coordinator in college before this job. He coached for one year, raised his profile, and then began looking for college HC jobs. Fact is, coaching for the Raiders is a nice stepping stone. A lot of people liked what he did his rookie year, me included. When you coach for the Raiders, you get any credit for things that go right, and Davis gets all the blame when something goes wrong.

Coaching the Raiders, then getting fired, saved him about 10 years of paying his dues at the college level.
Now THIS i agree with.....but thats what the Raiders have become because of davis...a stepping stone for no named coaches...nobody worth there wieght in gold would agree to coach for Al...funny when davis said that ex coaches that are broadcasting now called him this morning to ''ask'' him what his plans are,indicating they were sniffing around for a job...lol
 
I have heard a lot of claims that Lane bad mouthed players, wanted the arkansas job, bad mouthed the org, bad mouthed Ryan. All of these claims, to the best of my knowledge, come from Davis, who's desperately trying to justify his actions. Even in the two articles you post, almost every allegation comes directly from Al's mouth, with no evidence/quote/link.

Hey, I don't pretend to have inside knowledge, but I've seen nothing to make me think that this isn't, at best, mostly Al's fault. The interview with Asomugha on NFL network only confirmed that in my mind. Not to mention 5 coaches in 6 years. At some point time, the mirror has to come into play.
I saw that interview with Aso and he clearly states that the PLAYERS all liked Kiffen and loved the winning attitude he brought to the team. Cable himself on the stage sitting next to his boss Davis who just fired kiffen and called him a flat out lire was praising kiffen and saying how much he and the whole staff loved working for him...soooo i dont know massraider...i think your wrong bro`.
Asomougha also said before the firing that he would only go to Davis and back Kiffin if the players asked him to. I am unaware of that happening. I am not denying that some people liked Kiffin. Heck, I liked him. I wanted him to stay. But Davis confirming Kiffin's interest in the Arkansas job places things in a new light. Because everything seemed fine up until that point. I didn't think anything of the Arkansas rumors, because we were all assuming Al was sick of him for whatever reason. Lo and behold, Al sent Kiffin the resignation letter, in case Kiffin wanted out to go to Arkansas. (BTW, this is very similar to the Gruden thing, when everyone assumes Al drove Gruden away. The Tampa job came up, Gruden wanted it, and Al asked him if he wanted to leave. Gruden said yes, Al made the deal. That's from Gruden's book, BTW).

Kiffin being likable is a lot less important to me than if he's a good coach, and wanted to be in Oakland. He wanted out, and behaved like a guy trying to get fired. He used the Raiders, and all the old Al Davis jokes in the world won't change that.
Used them for what? I am not following you there.
The guy was a co-offensive coordinator in college before this job. He coached for one year, raised his profile, and then began looking for college HC jobs. Fact is, coaching for the Raiders is a nice stepping stone. A lot of people liked what he did his rookie year, me included. When you coach for the Raiders, you get any credit for things that go right, and Davis gets all the blame when something goes wrong.

Coaching the Raiders, then getting fired, saved him about 10 years of paying his dues at the college level.
I follow what you are saying although I don't think the second paragraph you wrote applies to Art Shell. Everyone was pointing out how he was in way over his head and should have never been a head coach. Davis wasn't blamed for Shell's poor coaching, although he did get blamed for hiring Shell (and rightfully so). From my perspective I don't think Kiffin took the job thinking Oakland would be a stepping stone and that he would be out of there for a better college job in a year. I do think he realized how much of a train wreck he got himself into midway through the first season and decided to explore the Arkansas head coach opening when it became available (not saying he was right in doing so but that is my interpretation of events). I think Kiffin would have gotten a head coaching job in college much sooner than 10 years given that he was co-coordinator at USC with Sarkisian who is already getting head coaching offers in college. The exposure Kiffin got in Oakland certainly may have accelerated the time table for him to get a college head coaching job, but again I don't think that was his intention when he took the Oakland coaching job. If anything, there was significant risk that if he quickly flamed out as a head coach in Oakland (as his two predecessors did) that college and pro teams would view him as coordinator material only and not a head coach.

 
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Just watched the presser...it's eerily similar to the Roger Clemens press conference when he released the taped phone conversation with Brian McNamee. Clemens sat quiet for a few weeks without any type of comment against steroid allegations and then came out with the phone conversation tape between he and Brian McNamee. Clemens sat there with a smug look on his face and really thought that he had exposed enough evidence that all claims of steroid use against him would be thrown out. It's obvious that Al and the lawyers were building a case over the last few weeks and hoping Kiffin would make a few wrong moves. Al really believes that he had just cause to fire him! I know I'm just restating what's already been said but he truly is a senile moron.

 
I know I'm just restating what's already been said but he truly is a senile moron.
Actually, he's neither.And think about the piles of cash he sleeps on when you get up at 5am tomorrow to drive your truck.
Yeah piles of cash from when he refuses to pay the coaches that he fires unjustly. He was once a brilliant businessman but those days are long past. But you keep singing your praises
 
I know I'm just restating what's already been said but he truly is a senile moron.
Actually, he's neither.And think about the piles of cash he sleeps on when you get up at 5am tomorrow to drive your truck.
Good thing he has the cash to sleep on because he sure won't be sleeping on piles of wins like Shanahan does.
Okay.... then Al can sleep on his 3 Super Bowl trophies. Hey, this is fun!
 
I know I'm just restating what's already been said but he truly is a senile moron.
Actually, he's neither.And think about the piles of cash he sleeps on when you get up at 5am tomorrow to drive your truck.
Good thing he has the cash to sleep on because he sure won't be sleeping on piles of wins like Shanahan does.
Okay.... then Al can sleep on his 3 Super Bowl trophies. Hey, this is fun!
1977, 1981, and 1984 and in 1492 Columbus sailed the ocean blue.
 
I know I'm just restating what's already been said but he truly is a senile moron.
Actually, he's neither.And think about the piles of cash he sleeps on when you get up at 5am tomorrow to drive your truck.
Good thing he has the cash to sleep on because he sure won't be sleeping on piles of wins like Shanahan does.
Okay.... then Al can sleep on his 3 Super Bowl trophies. Hey, this is fun!
I think those rusted, but he can sleep on piles of top 5 draft picks.Bottom line is that if Kiffin was as much of a problam as he states, he should have just fired him last year. Is it commitment to excellence or commitment to checkbook?
 
first & foremost i don't think kiffin should have been hired in the first place. it was a mistake & we now have a ####### circus, make that a bigger circus in oaktown than before.

al is a stubborn old *******. but he's not crazy, senile or nuts. has he made mistakes? you better believe it. but this firing isn't one of them. the timing is, but not the act itself. i watched the entire press conference & al took all of the blame & responsibility for the mistakes that have been made over the last 6 years. it killed him to say it, but he he said it without hesitation & he threw no one under the bus. you don't do that in al's world. he was pissed that things have gotten to this point because of the decisions he's made.

& kiffin has been trying to get canned for months. he wasn't loyal to the raiders or al davis. you might not agree with that being all that important, but it is DAMN ####### important to al. all the stupid petty bull-####, the arkansas coaching gig, the senior bowl clothes, the upshaw patch, the time outs in buf, the 76 yard fg, etc. i don't know about you, but i saw all of these things as petulant & done deliberately to piss al davis off. the only other answer is kiffin is an ignorant, obtuse ###, both in football & in life(not wearing the upshaw patch was sooooo stupid), which i don't think he is.

we were in the afc championship game in 00,01, & 02. we've had 6 years of hell. we'll get better. al will die trying. i respect that. i respect the raiders & i'm proud to be a raider fan & i always will be.

 
first & foremost i don't think kiffin should have been hired in the first place. it was a mistake & we now have a ####### circus, make that a bigger circus in oaktown than before.

al is a stubborn old *******. but he's not crazy, senile or nuts. has he made mistakes? you better believe it. but this firing isn't one of them. the timing is, but not the act itself. i watched the entire press conference & al took all of the blame & responsibility for the mistakes that have been made over the last 6 years. it killed him to say it, but he he said it without hesitation & he threw no one under the bus. you don't do that in al's world. he was pissed that things have gotten to this point because of the decisions he's made.

& kiffin has been trying to get canned for months. he wasn't loyal to the raiders or al davis. you might not agree with that being all that important, but it is DAMN ####### important to al. all the stupid petty bull-####, the arkansas coaching gig, the senior bowl clothes, the upshaw patch, the time outs in buf, the 76 yard fg, etc. i don't know about you, but i saw all of these things as petulant & done deliberately to piss al davis off. the only other answer is kiffin is an ignorant, obtuse ###, both in football & in life(not wearing the upshaw patch was sooooo stupid), which i don't think he is.

we were in the afc championship game in 00,01, & 02. we've had 6 years of hell. we'll get better. al will die trying. i respect that. i respect the raiders & i'm proud to be a raider fan & i always will be.
The Raiders are a bad football team. Period. They have horrible Management, subpar talent, and horrible coaching. Russell is going to be the bigger bust than Alex Smith. Why?

Because JR doesn't have a Gruden to coach him. I think Kiffen would do a better job than dumba** NoWin would as far as building an offense from within. Davis sucks. He is done. Who cares about blame? The only person you can blame is the Owner, just like fans blame the Fords and Millen, and how I hate John York.

LOL, Davis recites words that his Lawyers prep'd him , and Raiderfan thinks his still is lucent. That's why Davis' brand of crap sells. Because his fanbase is stupid.

 
Even if every one of Al's allegations are true, he would have been better off taking the high road. His focus on "insubordination" and "dishonesty", whether real or imagined, speaks volumes on the disfunctionality of the Oakland front office.

He'll always find someone willing to coach the team and maybe even stumble onto a fellow with whom he can work. And together they can get the Raiders back up to a level of reasonable competitiveness. But he certainly reduces his odds with each bitter termination.

 
Capella said:
Being a Raiders fan just has to be the worst right now. I used to give Raider Nation (the FBG, not the nation) a lot of crap. I can't anymore, I'm sorry dude.Being a fan of this team is the sports equivalent of aids.
And yet, your defensive coordinator was begging to come here. How's THAT taste? :shrug:
Taste like 3-1 and another likely playoff berth to me. :lmao:
 
Even if every one of Al's allegations are true, he would have been better off taking the high road. His focus on "insubordination" and "dishonesty", whether real or imagined, speaks volumes on the disfunctionality of the Oakland front office. He'll always find someone willing to coach the team and maybe even stumble onto a fellow with whom he can work. And together they can get the Raiders back up to a level of reasonable competitiveness. But he certainly reduces his odds with each bitter termination.
:mellow: Say what you want about who's fault it is, make the senile jokes, etc., but this is 100% true. Even Blank didn't mow down Petrino to this level, and it was much more clear who shouldered the lion's share of the blame there. Even if he's right, he comes off looking like the bitter bad guy.
 
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I didn't think that there was a tampering rule for coaches as long as you were hiring them for a position above what they already have. So the Raiders could have hired Monte Kiffin as the Assistant Head Coach no problem. (Nevermind, looked it up and a coordinator can only be interviewed and hired for the Head Coach position)

Frankly, when a team has had 5 different head coaches in 6 years, the problem isn't just with the coaches.

 
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My takeaway from reading this thread is that "The Raider Fan" (not 100%, but the hard core that dress up in Halloween customs for NFL games and others that post on message boards) and Al Davis deserve each other. They are more similar than different. Living in the glory of yesteryear, in denial that their franchise is a Dysfunctional Mess and will continue to be one as long as Al Davis has a pulse.

Does Kiffin come out smelling like a rose in this? No. I'm sure that he would have been happy to bail out during the off season. He's uppded his profile and did get his team to play hard and thus I think that he will land in a positive place (either as an NFL O-coordinator or College D1 HC).

That said, can anyone other than the protypical Raider Fan defend:

- Not taking care of this mess during the off season. If Al in his infinite wisdom knew that this was a trainwreck during the offseason how can anyone justify throwing the 2008 season under the bus to save having to pay the lowest paid NFL coach his severance money at the same time he was leading the charge to spend many multiples of that sum of damaged goods talent like Javon Walker

- Creating a climate of dysfunctionality in which only the most desperate of NFL re-tread coaches who can't get an NFL gig or guys that 99.9% of the NFL fans have never heard of before can be seen raising their hands for the Raiders HC job.

- NFL coaches get whacked all the time, sometimes for very "political" reasons. Same with Fortune 100 CEOs. Does it really do the franchise value to conduct such affairs in public, airing all of the entity's dirty laundry for all to see?

Most NFL fans would not be happy if there franchises were run this way, but alas The Raider Fan and Al Davis are two peas in a pod because basically Al Davis created The Raider Fan in his image. You are he.

 
I have heard a lot of claims that Lane bad mouthed players, wanted the arkansas job, bad mouthed the org, bad mouthed Ryan. All of these claims, to the best of my knowledge, come from Davis, who's desperately trying to justify his actions. Even in the two articles you post, almost every allegation comes directly from Al's mouth, with no evidence/quote/link.Hey, I don't pretend to have inside knowledge, but I've seen nothing to make me think that this isn't, at best, mostly Al's fault. The interview with Asomugha on NFL network only confirmed that in my mind. Not to mention 5 coaches in 6 years. At some point time, the mirror has to come into play.
"Came from Davis"??? When? This is his first public statement since Lane was fired. The Arkansas stuff? That didn't come from Al. Bad-mouthing his team? It's been going on since last spring, in his press conferences and interviews. That came from Lane, his comments, in print and on video.If you want to dig through his comments, feel free, I have personally posted them in the Raiders offseason thread and the Raiders 2008 season thread. You won't have to look far, just start last from last January, when he wanted the Arkansas job, didn't get it, and refused to wear Raider gear to the Senior Bowl and most of the offseason.You asked for me to back up my stance, I did, then you just ignore it? Why not just say, "I have no idea, but I think it's all Al's fault, no matter what anyone says...."Read the first link I posted. I made mention of Lane bad-mouthing his team BEFORE Al accused him of the same thing. Do you think I am just telepathic?
Dude, simmer. I didn't ignore anything, I just read what I saw poste IN THIS THREAD. I'll read your links, but most of THE TEXT you posted was comments from Al's point of view and some letter that could have been written at anytime.. Sorry, I haven't been riveted to your posts in the Raiders season threads, I have my own team to follow. And I think I might know a thing or two about the whole NFL coach to Arkansas theory, so just calm down, I know you're upset, been there and done that. I survived 30 years of Rankin Smith.
Fair enough.
Thanks for being excellent. I'll read your stuff in the AM with more coffee and less rum. :)
Yeah, sorry bout that, I know you're good people. Bit of a tense day.
No prob, dude. Ok, I think I get what you're saying. And it appears to boil down to A) Al is not senile or an idiot. Agree. I think he's paranoid and a control freak.B) This wasn't all his fault. Agree again. But I still think it's mostly his fault.Peter King had an interesting monologue this AM on SIrius. He essentially said Kiffin had two strikes before he even coached his first pre-season game. One was the fact that he didn't want to draft Jamarcus Russell. He advocated a trade for Schaub, but it never happened. Two was insisting that they get rid of Moss. Supposedly, when Moss went to NE and put up career numbers, Al nearly snapped. Three was Arkansas. Again, just quoting King here.Arkansas seems to be central to your arguments, so we'll go there. I have yet to see any confirmation that didn't come from Al Davis that Kiffin wanted the Arkansas job. I remember rumors swirling about Syracuse, but not Arkansas. According to Peter King, someone (he hinted that it was Jerry Jones, but couldn't confirm it. As a sidebar, he was rumored to have called Blank on behalf of Arkansas as well), called Al and asked for permission to speak to Kiffin. Al agreed to let it happen after the season. Arkansas said they couldn't wait til then, and Al refused. So, going back to the paranoid part, this MAY be where this is coming from. He may have assumed he wanted it. At least, I've not seen other evidence.I think we nearly all agree that Kiffin looked like he was improving the team, so it seems clear that the team was playing for him. Aso confirmed that he was well liked in the locker room, despite McDonald's claim on his lack of people skills.. MacDonald also made it clear that Kiffin was stripped of power, forced to interview candidates he didn't want and keep coordinators he didn't want. Wouldn't you want out of a job like that? Now, I'm not excusing throwing games to get fired, that's inexcusable. He could've just resigned. But maybe he thought that was the only way he could get the rest of the money out of the contract.I can't, however, speak to him bad mouthing his players in public, I never heard it, but really, would he be the first head coach to do that? Parcells made a career out of it. Some coaches motivate their players that way. Schottenheimer once said in a PC that Larry Johnson needed to take his diaper off.I thought a key moment in the PC was when a reporter asked Cable about how he'd handle a locker room where a well liked coach was just fired, so something like that. Al had to point out that hey, the team likes the owner too. They like the owner and the organization. He looked like he couldn't STAND the thought that even one player might like Kiffin more than him. Al Davis is and always will be an NFL icon. But he's this team's worst enemy right now, in my opinion.
 

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