knee braces (1 Viewer)

[moleculo]

players wear helmets, shoulder pads, etc. When players come back from knee injury, they are typically in some sort of knee brace.

Why not protect the multi-million dollar investment that is a starting RB's knees by making knee braces mandatory?

 

[Max Power]

I would assume it slows them down too much, takes a litle bit off a cut. RBs generally only last 6-7 years, so I think the reward of a faster player outweighs the risk of an injury.

 

[jonessed]

I'm sure if they were practical day in and day out players would be using them.

 

[moleculo]

I would assume it slows them down too much, takes a litle bit off a cut. RBs generally only last 6-7 years, so I think the reward of a faster player outweighs the risk of an injury.

if everyone in the league was wearing them, wouldn't everything equal out?

 

[Church of Iggy Pop]

I've noticed that the Ohio State offensive line all wear knee braces every down of every game. Maybe this is not a new thing, but I only noticed it this season.

 

[Pygmy Marmoset]

The O-Line should. Looks like the one Jammal Brown wears probably saved his season.

 

[mbuehner]

I would assume it slows them down too much, takes a litle bit off a cut. RBs generally only last 6-7 years, so I think the reward of a faster player outweighs the risk of an injury.

if everyone in the league was wearing them, wouldn't everything equal out?

If everyone was wrapped in a suit of bubble foam you could make the same argument.

 

[Sack-Religious]

For RB's with no previous knee problems?

The types of braces that might be able to prevent a knee injury would probably be too bulky for RB's to wear and with today's trend of less and less padding/protection I don't think it's something that would be embraced.

It sounds good in theory, but I don't know if there's any evidence that an RB wearing a brace would be less prone to a knee injury. Braces add support to the knee ligaments etc. I don't know if having a support device such as a brace would actually prevent a ligament tear from a hit or brutal twist.

 

[Sidewinder16]

I've noticed that the Ohio State offensive line all wear knee braces every down of every game. Maybe this is not a new thing, but I only noticed it this season.

The entire Virginia Tech OL has worn them for a number of years now.

 

[Max Power]

I would assume it slows them down too much, takes a litle bit off a cut. RBs generally only last 6-7 years, so I think the reward of a faster player outweighs the risk of an injury.

if everyone in the league was wearing them, wouldn't everything equal out?

even kickers?

 

[moleculo]

I would assume it slows them down too much, takes a litle bit off a cut. RBs generally only last 6-7 years, so I think the reward of a faster player outweighs the risk of an injury.

if everyone in the league was wearing them, wouldn't everything equal out?

If everyone was wrapped in a suit of bubble foam you could make the same argument.

aren't they pretty much already?

 

[Sack-Religious]

I would assume it slows them down too much, takes a litle bit off a cut. RBs generally only last 6-7 years, so I think the reward of a faster player outweighs the risk of an injury.

if everyone in the league was wearing them, wouldn't everything equal out?

If everyone was wrapped in a suit of bubble foam you could make the same argument.

aren't they pretty much already?

For "skill position" players, it's actually almost the opposite. Aside from helmets, the amount of protection a non-injured player wears is decreasing. RB's and WR's looking for any advantage they can get are wearing smaller shoulder pads, little to no padding on the thighs and no hip pads.

 

[PatrickT]

Aren't they required for OL in the NCAA? I've never seen a game where the entire oline wasn't wearing them.

Never happen for RBs.

 

[Max Power]

I would assume it slows them down too much, takes a litle bit off a cut. RBs generally only last 6-7 years, so I think the reward of a faster player outweighs the risk of an injury.

if everyone in the league was wearing them, wouldn't everything equal out?

If everyone was wrapped in a suit of bubble foam you could make the same argument.

aren't they pretty much already?

For "skill position" players, it's actually almost the opposite. Aside from helmets, the amount of protection a non-injured player wears is decreasing. RB's and WR's looking for any advantage they can get are wearing smaller shoulder pads, little to no padding on the thighs and no hip pads.

I stopped wearing a cup in HS because I thought It made me faster.

 

[Statcruncher]

The big box stores (Home Depot, Lowe's) took the lead in forcing their employees to wear back braces whether they wanted to or not. Unfortunately it appears that their thinking might be skewed. Over time braces by definition actually weaken the joint they are supposed to protect since they do not force the joint to constantly adapt to stress. If you stake a tree down (provide artificial support) and submit it to high winds the trunk will not adapt and thicken like it should since the stakes are bearing the brunt of the adaptive stimuli. When you think the tree is fully grown and remove the stakes it is highly susceptible high winds. Honestly if people came first the league would ban or severely limit the use of braces. If you have to have an artificial piece of equipment supporting your joint then maybe you should still be rehabbing instead of rushing back to the field. Unfortunately too many players ignore this and trade future problems for current livelyhood. I honestly can't say I wouldn't do the same thing.

 

[moleculo]

I would assume it slows them down too much, takes a litle bit off a cut. RBs generally only last 6-7 years, so I think the reward of a faster player outweighs the risk of an injury.

if everyone in the league was wearing them, wouldn't everything equal out?

If everyone was wrapped in a suit of bubble foam you could make the same argument.

aren't they pretty much already?

For "skill position" players, it's actually almost the opposite. Aside from helmets, the amount of protection a non-injured player wears is decreasing. RB's and WR's looking for any advantage they can get are wearing smaller shoulder pads, little to no padding on the thighs and no hip pads.

I know. I remember Ed McAffrey practically wore Pop Warner pads. My quote above is a bit of tongue-in-cheek; I was actually thinking about todays players vs the guys who played in the 20's or so - before helmets.Seems to me that there is a tremendous amount invested in the health of the players, and I would think that it would be in teams (and by extension, the leagues) best interest in regulating the use of safety equipment.

 

[bolldpt]

I dont recommend people wearing braces just to wear braces. As statcrucher mentioned above, braces do give you some support and that in turn will make the knee weaker due to knee relying on the brace. I dont recommend them but only for acute traumas where the athlete needs to return quickly to the field. I then recommend them to get out of the brace in a fairly short amount of time once the tissue has had adaquate time to heal.

I have even talked to a Don Joy rep who outfits all the local college teams for their OL. He admitted its not necessary for all the OL but the colleges see it as a "protective" measure they can take. And he's all right with that. lol Knee braces will not prevent a knee injury and I believe people have that misconception. They give you support but if you get tackled like ADP was this week. Brace or no brace the same result would have occured.

 

[moleculo]

I dont recommend people wearing braces just to wear braces. As statcrucher mentioned above, braces do give you some support and that in turn will make the knee weaker due to knee relying on the brace. I dont recommend them but only for acute traumas where the athlete needs to return quickly to the field. I then recommend them to get out of the brace in a fairly short amount of time once the tissue has had adaquate time to heal. I have even talked to a Don Joy rep who outfits all the local college teams for their OL. He admitted its not necessary for all the OL but the colleges see it as a "protective" measure they can take. And he's all right with that. lol Knee braces will not prevent a knee injury and I believe people have that misconception. They give you support but if you get tackled like ADP was this week. Brace or no brace the same result would have occured.

interesting. Makes sense. thanks.

 

[msommer]

I would assume it slows them down too much, takes a litle bit off a cut. RBs generally only last 6-7 years, so I think the reward of a faster player outweighs the risk of an injury.

if everyone in the league was wearing them, wouldn't everything equal out?

If everyone was wrapped in a suit of bubble foam you could make the same argument.

aren't they pretty much already?

For "skill position" players, it's actually almost the opposite. Aside from helmets, the amount of protection a non-injured player wears is decreasing. RB's and WR's looking for any advantage they can get are wearing smaller shoulder pads, little to no padding on the thighs and no hip pads.

I stopped wearing a cup in HS because I thought It made me faster.

Does your GF/SO/Wife agree?

 

[DWidmar]

I dont recommend people wearing braces just to wear braces. As statcrucher mentioned above, braces do give you some support and that in turn will make the knee weaker due to knee relying on the brace. I dont recommend them but only for acute traumas where the athlete needs to return quickly to the field. I then recommend them to get out of the brace in a fairly short amount of time once the tissue has had adaquate time to heal. I have even talked to a Don Joy rep who outfits all the local college teams for their OL. He admitted its not necessary for all the OL but the colleges see it as a "protective" measure they can take. And he's all right with that. lol Knee braces will not prevent a knee injury and I believe people have that misconception. They give you support but if you get tackled like ADP was this week. Brace or no brace the same result would have occured.

I could see this argument if they wore the brace all the time but they won't. If you only stake the tree down when high winds are in the forecast, then remove them right afterwards, then tree will still be strong. A player will still run, excersize etc with out the brace and only use the brace when playing. They would probably only wear it about 12 hours a week. In Nascar nobody really wanted to use the Hahn's (maybe misspelled) device but Nascar made it mandatory shortly after Earnhardt Sr. died. To most it was to restrictive, blocked their vision, etc... Now they all are used to it and alot of them really like the extra protection it provides. I think the knee braces could help with most types of injuries. Certainly there are probably some injuries that will happen with our without the brace but that is true of all protective devices.

 

[cliffhuxtible]

In college, we were required to wear them in practice, and strongly encouraged to wear them for games. Most of the lineman wore them, while most skill position players did not.

I personally recall two situations regarding the braces. In one game, our TE got "rolled up on" and went down. The brace actually bent, but his knee was fine. He thought it saved his season, and the trainers agreed.

However, the single worst knee injury I've ever witnessed (torn ACL, PCL, patella, nerve damage) occurred in practice when one of our guards went down horribly during a scrimmage. He was wearing the braces, and they did nothing to prevent this injury.

Once I got used to them, I felt they gave me piece of mind, but I question how effective they actually are. Finally, as a lineman, wearing them in games was no big deal, but I can't imagine a skill position player doing the same. They definitely took my sprint speed down a notch.

 

[Max Power]

I would assume it slows them down too much, takes a litle bit off a cut. RBs generally only last 6-7 years, so I think the reward of a faster player outweighs the risk of an injury.

if everyone in the league was wearing them, wouldn't everything equal out?

If everyone was wrapped in a suit of bubble foam you could make the same argument.

aren't they pretty much already?

For "skill position" players, it's actually almost the opposite. Aside from helmets, the amount of protection a non-injured player wears is decreasing. RB's and WR's looking for any advantage they can get are wearing smaller shoulder pads, little to no padding on the thighs and no hip pads.

I stopped wearing a cup in HS because I thought It made me faster.

Does your GF/SO/Wife agree?

 

[DWidmar]

I would assume it slows them down too much, takes a litle bit off a cut. RBs generally only last 6-7 years, so I think the reward of a faster player outweighs the risk of an injury.

if everyone in the league was wearing them, wouldn't everything equal out?

If everyone was wrapped in a suit of bubble foam you could make the same argument.

aren't they pretty much already?

For "skill position" players, it's actually almost the opposite. Aside from helmets, the amount of protection a non-injured player wears is decreasing. RB's and WR's looking for any advantage they can get are wearing smaller shoulder pads, little to no padding on the thighs and no hip pads.

I stopped wearing a cup in HS because I thought It made me faster.

Does your GF/SO/Wife agree?

There are some things that we just don't want to know.

 

[JayMan]

I dont recommend people wearing braces just to wear braces. As statcrucher mentioned above, braces do give you some support and that in turn will make the knee weaker due to knee relying on the brace. I dont recommend them but only for acute traumas where the athlete needs to return quickly to the field. I then recommend them to get out of the brace in a fairly short amount of time once the tissue has had adaquate time to heal. I have even talked to a Don Joy rep who outfits all the local college teams for their OL. He admitted its not necessary for all the OL but the colleges see it as a "protective" measure they can take. And he's all right with that. lol Knee braces will not prevent a knee injury and I believe people have that misconception. They give you support but if you get tackled like ADP was this week. Brace or no brace the same result would have occured.

I could see this argument if they wore the brace all the time but they won't. If you only stake the tree down when high winds are in the forecast, then remove them right afterwards, then tree will still be strong. A player will still run, excersize etc with out the brace and only use the brace when playing. They would probably only wear it about 12 hours a week. In Nascar nobody really wanted to use the Hahn's (maybe misspelled) device but Nascar made it mandatory shortly after Earnhardt Sr. died. To most it was to restrictive, blocked their vision, etc... Now they all are used to it and alot of them really like the extra protection it provides. I think the knee braces could help with most types of injuries. Certainly there are probably some injuries that will happen with our without the brace but that is true of all protective devices.

very ... for the record - in racing, it's HANS protection (Head And Neck Support)... it has saved Robert Kubica's life this year after his terrific F1 crash in Montreal (going from 280kmh to 0 in less than a second)... even though drivers were opposed to it in the beginning (they all now embrace it seeing that everyone is on the same level and you get used to it)

 

[Bad_Mo]

Good question.

If all players were required to wear them, wouldn't that slow everyone down? I mean, who cares if the game is played a tad bit slower if braces would help avoid bad injuries.

 

[FunkyPlutos]

Most WRs don't even wear knee and thigh pads because they slow them down too much.

 

[mbuehner]

Most WRs don't even wear knee and thigh pads because they slow them down too much.

Same reason I rarely wear pants.

 

[toxicbees]

I don't think there has been any real proof that they are that effective. When 300 pounds comes down on a small ligament, no external brace is going to provide that much protection. Have you ever seen the way these braces get bent out of shape?

 

[Sleeper 43]

Because the knee brace effects performance to a certain extent. the extra weight and prevention of full range of motion hinders you.

When I played MLB , genetically I have weak wrists and ankles , I bought some nice braces for my feet but it greatly effected my lateral movement and I eventually said screw it and just went back to trainers tape.

As far as making it mandatory...maybe even a better question, the newer helmets are superior against concussions and head trauma , why don't they make everyone go over to the new helmets?

 

[TwinTurbo]

Even if it is able to protect the knee, I think a knee brace is only going to move the injury to another part of the leg depending on the type of hit. If the leg is planted and the body twists in an unnatural way, the knee brace isn't going to prevent an injury. Instead of blowing out a knee, the player may break an ankle instead or tweak a groin or hammy. He could still blow out a knee too. I think a brace would help for stability but not to prevent injury from tackles.

 

[DWidmar]

I don't think there has been any real proof that they are that effective. When 300 pounds comes down on a small ligament, no external brace is going to provide that much protection. Have you ever seen the way these braces get bent out of shape?

But the knee might be protected when a cleat gets stuck in the turf, or a player plants their foot to make a cut etc... There are many ways to blow out a knee and if you can eliminate two or three than that helps.

 

[DWidmar]

Even if it is able to protect the knee, I think a knee brace is only going to move the injury to another part of the leg depending on the type of hit. If the leg is planted and the body twists in an unnatural way, the knee brace isn't going to prevent an injury. Instead of blowing out a knee, the player may break an ankle instead or tweak a groin or hammy. He could still blow out a knee too. I think a brace would help for stability but not to prevent injury from tackles.

I think a player could certainly hurt another part of their body a la Bo Jackson when his knee didn't blow out instead it blew out the top of his hip. I think the knee brace does provide stability and help prevent knee injuries otherwise all of the college's wouldn't waste their money on it.

 

[bolldpt]

There is no documented evidence that braces do prevent knee injuries. College's "waste their money" because they see it as a protective mechanism. If a brace does save one person from a possible ligament tear, then the college see's it as money well spent. Besides fitting the OL for braces is pocket change for many of the D-I schools.

No doubt the braces provide some support but to make a blanket statement that they help prevent knee injuries isnt very sound. I can physically bend one of those braces with my hands. And that amount of pressure is nothing compared to a 250lb athlete rolling or tackling, at any speed, toward a knee that is really made to bend in one direction.

 

[mad sweeney]

There is no documented evidence that braces do prevent knee injuries. College's "waste their money" because they see it as a protective mechanism. If a brace does save one person from a possible ligament tear, then the college see's it as money well spent. Besides fitting the OL for braces is pocket change for many of the D-I schools. No doubt the braces provide some support but to make a blanket statement that they help prevent knee injuries isnt very sound. I can physically bend one of those braces with my hands. And that amount of pressure is nothing compared to a 250lb athlete rolling or tackling, at any speed, toward a knee that is really made to bend in one direction.

For a smart guy, you sure get your apostrophes backward. No offense, just think it's funny.

 

[Steeler07]

Braces do help prevent injuries, the mechanism is pretty obvious and simple as it wont allow the knee to bend sideways. And if your knee is healthy, wearing it for games will certainly not "weaken" it, that is ludicrous.

 

[DWidmar]

There is no documented evidence that braces do prevent knee injuries. College's "waste their money" because they see it as a protective mechanism. If a brace does save one person from a possible ligament tear, then the college see's it as money well spent. Besides fitting the OL for braces is pocket change for many of the D-I schools.

No doubt the braces provide some support but to make a blanket statement that they help prevent knee injuries isnt very sound. I can physically bend one of those braces with my hands. And that amount of pressure is nothing compared to a 250lb athlete rolling or tackling, at any speed, toward a knee that is really made to bend in one direction.

Protective from what? If not a knee injury, then what? You can't say they see it as a protective mechanism and not think that it protects from something. Protects = Prevents If a college program see's that, a knee has possibly been saved, by wearing a knee brace, aren't they seeing some evidence that it may work. Therefore they continue to put them on because they believe the brace will possibly save another knee. That in itself is proof that they feel there is evidence to support the fact that they do help prevent some types of knee injuries. I don't always have to see "documented" evidence to believe something works.

I also meant to say that "I think the knee brace does provide stability and "may" help prevent knee injuries." It makes a big difference adding that word, and I thought I put it in there when I posted that, but it wasn't in there. But "may" prevent is better than no protection at all.

 

[Statcruncher]

Braces do help prevent injuries, the mechanism is pretty obvious and simple as it wont allow the knee to bend sideways. And if your knee is healthy, wearing it for games will certainly not "weaken" it, that is ludicrous.

Adaptive stress is not ludicrous, it is a proven principle that manifests itself in every living being. If adaptive stress were ludicrous it would be impossible for weightlifting to increase muscular strength and size or ligament/tendon thickness.Here is a cut from a website:

http://depts.washington.edu/hiprc/practice...ortsbraces.html

Summary of knee brace/orthotic studies

The studies reviewed above provide conflicting results on the protective effect of knee bracing. Some smaller studies and studies involving only one team have found braces protective,10,14 while other single school studies found no protective effect or a non-significant increase in injuries.11,13 Two nation wide studies of collegiate athletes found no evidence that braces offered protection from knee injuries.8,12 There are a wide variety of factors which can contribute to knee injuries. Some of these (i.e., playing surfaces, shoes, player position, mechanism of injury, history of previous injury) can be analyzed directly. Other factors (particularly player conditioning, coaching methods, rules, treatment, and natural fluctuation in the incidence of injury) are more difficult to measure. Large national studies which were able to evaluate injury rates in different sub groups of players provide the best evidence available to date.8,12

Recommendations on knee braces and other orthotics

At the present time prophylactic use of knee braces does not appear to protect players from knee injuries. Studies which found an increased risk of injury with knee braces may simply be reflecting the fact that individuals with prior knee injuries—who are most at risk of re-injury—are also the ones who wear braces.

Recommendations for future research

There is a definite need for well-designed, large-scale randomized controlled trials (RCTs) to evaluate the protective effect (if any) of knee bracing. This is the only way that all the other confounders can be controlled for.

And here's a little more info about the the college testing (note that Wake Forest actually had higher injury rates in braced players) from here:http://www.caringmedical.com/media/article...?article_id=422

In the late 70's Oakland Raiders' Superbowl and All-Pro quarterback Ken Stabler had a bad knee, the Raiders' head trainer George Anderson, developed a brace for him (Anderson Knee Stabilizer, 1978), to protect Stabler's previously injured knee ligaments from re-injury. Anderson's colleagues in the professional and college ranks were impressed with the reports of its effectiveness, and began using it to outfit their athletes who had sustained medial collateral ligament (MCL) injuries. Subsequently the medical staffs of several teams decided that the brace could also be used to prevent injury. A frenzy hit the sports injury field and the brace was universally applauded, and consequently, the growth of this market was rapid, with at least eight different manufacturers entering the market within five years. Unfortunately, the manufacturers provided no quantitative data to validate this bracing concept, and there were no independent studies to show that braces prevent injury.

The Brace As A Knee Hazard

American Association of Orthopedic Surgery and American Academy of Pediatrics Caution Against Bracing. In 1984, the American Orthopaedic Society of Sports Medicine called for research into seeing whether or not using a brace prior to injury would prevent a serious knee injury. The end result of this was that the American Academy of Orthopaedic Surgeons issued a position statement, cautioning clinicians regarding recommending the use of prophylactic (injury preventive) braces. Why do you think this happened? Because the studies showed that braces did not prevent injury and some were showing that braces actually increased knee injury rates.

The Research Reports:

Dr. George Hewson and associates conducted a four year study on football players at the University of Arizonia in Tucson to determine whether the knee brace prevented injury. The study keyed on linemen, linebackers, and tight ends because they are the most likely players to sustain injury. The researchers conclusions was that there was no significant reduction in the number or type of knee injuries.

Football players at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill were studied next. Researchers statistically analyzed all knee injuries that occurred five years before and two years after braces began to be used. There was no change in the total number of medial collateral ligament or anterior cruciate ligament injuries.

Football players at Wake Forest University were studied. This study should have caused the abandonment of bracing football players. It showed an increase in the number of serious knee injuries when athletes braced their knees. There were three times the number of severe grade-three anterior cruciate ligament injuries in those using braces. There was an overall increase in knee injuries of 20 percent. The number of surgical procedures on knees increased by almost 50 percent during the bracing years. The overall injury incidence went up from 6.1 (unbraced) to 7.5 (braced) per 100.

Another study on knee bracing involved looking at seven of the most popular functional knee braces used to control anterior tibial displacement in people with ACL laxity. This study confirmed what researchers had already seen, the brace was a myth. The study's authors (Beck, C. et. al. Instrumented testing of functional knee braces. American Journal of Sports Medicine. 1986; 14:253-256.) noted, "Our data also supports the conclusions of other investigators, that as forces increase, the effectiveness of the functional knee braces in controlling anterior tibial displacement decreases. This was evident even at the forces used in our testing modes which, of necessity, were much lower than forces encountered in actual clinical settings." Some of the braces were showing almost no ACL support at the 40-pound of pressure mark. Imagine how the braces would hold up with a 250 pound linebacker smashing them. Other studies confirmed that even the most state-of-the-art braces did not significantly reduce the laxity in an ACL tear or injury. Athletes also found the braces to be unacceptable for running distances or jogging because of discomfort and migration of the brace distally on the knee. A great percentage of the athletes also noticed that the braces did not help them regain their previous athletic status. The only thing that can bring the athlete back to their previous athletic status is Prolotherapy.

Large NCAA Study

The largest study to date, involved looking at seventy-one schools which were members of Division 1 of the NCAA, to assess whether the use of so-called "preventive braces for the knee" was associated with a decrease in either the severity or the incidence (or both) of injuries to the knee in collegiate football players. In the first year of the study, the athletes wearing the braces were twice as likely to be injured. In the second year of the study, the risk of injury was increased by 50 percent. In addition to these facts, the braced athletes were much more likely to receive surgical procedures.

As you can see these studies are fairly dated but I cannot find any recent ones. I would think if knee braces were actually helpful there would be reams of research touting that. I may be wrong but I truly believe people simply wear knee braces because they "think" it's safer. I mean it's metal strapped to the body, that's gotta help right?

 

[bolldpt]

DWidmar:

a knee has possibly been saved, by wearing a knee brace, aren't they seeing some evidence that it may work. Therefore they continue to put them on because they believe the brace will possibly save another knee. That in itself is proof that they feel there is evidence to support the fact that they do help prevent some types of knee injuries. I don't always have to see "documented" evidence to believe something works. alot of speculation words in the same quote as evidence. Once again not very sound. Adding the word "may" would be more appropriate. I am not going to get into anecdotal vs. empirical evidence debate with you. Any sound clinician holds tightly to empirical data and very loosely to anecdotal data. You may not "always have to see 'documented' evidence to believe something works," but I do. Seperates the snake oil from the medicine. Steeler07:

The more a person wears a brace they will have a "weaker" or less stable knee due to reduced reliance on the neuromuscluar, proprioceptive, and kinesthetic systems involved in the knee. So it isn't ludicrous to believe such a thing if you went to school and did research on such stated systems. Might seem ludicrous to you but its really not.

 

[Snot Bubbler]

There sure are a lot of physicists on this board. Just because you can bend the brace with your bare hands doesn't mean the brace is ineffective. Cars have crumple zones now to reduce the sudden impact felt by the passengers; wooden rollercoasters bend and shake to prevent snapping; suspension bridges swing in the wind to prevent collapsing. If the knee brace bends after a devasting tackle, then at least some of the energy that would ordinarily be applied directly to the knee would be absorbed by the brace.

Oh, I'm not a physicist either, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night.