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Kyle Rittenhouse Trial: Defense Rests. Resisting the urge to go full HT and just purge this crapshow of a thread. (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter The Commish
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I have never said he’s guilty. I don’t know enough to know if he’s guilty or not.
and on a third watch I think I saw a single tear from a man that was sobbing #248
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Nugget
Footballguy
I guess I'd like to take my question to a different thread, but I've been curious on the balance between stand your ground and citizens arrest standards.
If someone turned the corner just as Kyle fired his rifle at Rosenbaum, would they be allowed to try and disarm Kyle? If they pulled out a handgun, can Kyle claim self defense? TIA.
crackattack
Footballguy
Looked like a show to me too. Very fakish looking.I have never said he’s guilty. I don’t know enough to know if he’s guilty or not.
and on a third watch I think I saw a single tear from a man that was sobbing #248
![[icon]](/data/avatars/m/5/5167.jpg?1660313464){kind=avatar}
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Insoxicated
In concealed carry training you're explicitly trained NOT to intervene in situations unless you have complete information... we were presented with the example of rounding a corner to find a man with a knife in his hand and a woman's hands on his wrists.... with the unknown lead-up to the scenario having been that the woman was trying to kill the man, but he had gotten the knife out of her hands and she was attempting to get it back. In other words... don't try to be a hero without REALLY good info.
And for self defense, you must show they had both capacity and intent to cause serious bodily harm or death. Your question about turning the corner doesn't provide sufficient information to judge. I'm happy to answer any questions though.
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GordonGekko
Footballguy
jon_mx said:
Jon, you know that I value and will defend all the Conservative voices here, including yours. But sometimes passion can turn into fury very quickly. I recognize you are very passionate about many of these important issues. There are times spending a day away from the PSF or anything political can be a good way to reset.
A thought to consider but it's up to you.
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Insoxicated
Was referring to the attacker who clearly said he had pointed a firearm at Rittenhouse before Kyle shot him.
In a mob scenario in that context, with multiple other attackers wielding weapons capable of causing serious harm or death, he's 100% greenlit to defend until the threat is no longer present.
There's essentially no path, based on what we've seen thus far, for this not to be justifiable self-defense.
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Insein
Footballguy
Those that already have it in their minds that Kyle was guilty for over a year would see it that way.
unckeyherb
Footballguy
Filing a motion for mistrial with predjudice
The General
Footballguy
Yes it was. By the limited stuff I read the defense was winning this case going away. I hadn’t been able to watch any of this until the kid’s testimony today and don’t see how this was helping him at all.
Weak response showing your lack of objectivity.
You think there’s no chance it was staged?
even if he faked it or exaggerated it, doesn’t mean he’s guilty
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unckeyherb
Footballguy
The Big Donkey
Footballguy
i like this judge.
The General
Footballguy
I didn’t see any added benefit from what I watched, He is also very unlikable. Juries aren’t supposed to take this into consideration but they are people and will have biases.
unckeyherb
Footballguy
yeah, I totally disagree. He appears to be a meek, simple kid. That helps his case IMO. He's not disrespectful, he lacks any bravado, he is answering every question with confidence. I don't see how he is "very unlikeable" but that is subjective and you and I are clearly coming at this from different viewpoints. I just see this as a good move by the defense.
identikit
Footballguy
crackattack
Footballguy
Stoneworker
Footballguy
HellToupee
Footballguy
The General
Footballguy
Yep. I think people have their minds made up by now and it is the lawyers skill to explain application of the law.
That’s why I say there was nothing to gain, only lose by putting the kid up there. The “breakdown” seemed very rehearsed to me.
The General
Footballguy
GordonGekko
Footballguy
VIDEO: Facial Neoteny, Youthfulness and Baby-Faced Features Mar 21, 2020
... This episode covers why youthful or 'baby faced' features are treated favourably in women and unfavourably in men.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSL8SuB6vFY
*******
You could always slap a Post It note on a canned Christmas ham and send it to the defense team on why they playcalled Spider Y 2 Banana much to your eternal disappointment.
Let me convert your low value posting into actual high value posting here. From the actual media optics side of this, Rittenhouse displayed "facial neoteny" which has instinctive biological triggers in human beings. They don't even realize it's happening. There are lots of highly paid trial strategists and even jury specialists ( who focus on Voir Dire aka essentially optimal jury selection) but most suck at what they do because many don't have a STEM background and most are not versed in basic evolutionary biology. ( I do and thus I still rock)
I'll simplify this some here. The reason cavemen didn't throw those screaming crying babies out of those caves at night was, in large part, to "neoteny". This also dovetails into the "Halo Effect" but I won't get into that now. The "babyface" indicates all kinds of perceived traits that may or may not actually exist within the person and highlight them in a certain general archetype against an established socially accepted baseline.
Rittenhouse is currently 18 years old. If he looked like Jon Ogden from the Ravens/The Blind Side at 18 years old (basically a fully formed massive adult that could imply open threat by sheer size) , this could be an entirely different effect on how the perception works.
Everyone here has gone to high school with a guy who looks like he's 35 but he's really 17. How people treat that person and act and shift and react outside of high school is measurably different than most people his age.
As long as Rittenhouse can trigger "facial neoteny", that operates to some advantage, even though taking the stand is not considered the ideal legal strategic move at this point.
From a practical overall media optics standpoint, trying to sell the idea on Big Social Media that Rittenhouse is "fake crying" is to try to further cement the already existing narratives spun to say he's a white supremacist. It's a desperation move from a radical ideology that is a one trick pony.
Zealots love to run the wishbone offense. Just pile into a stacked defense no matter what.
unckeyherb
Footballguy
You're right on the first part. I guess, the only way you lose by putting him up there is if he lives up to some narrative of being a hardened militia type or if he pulls a Nathan Jessup. He's coming off as the exact opposite as that.
-fish-
Footballguy
Not the point. Prosecutor is trying to say the two separate incidents didn't add up to a reasonable fear of bodily harm...he couldn't know it was the same guy. He just testified he couldn't tell it was him in front of him because it was too dark.
This prosecutor doesn't ask the final question in the seriies...he lets the jury infer it because he doesn't want a bad answer when he's leading the witness toward a point.
matttyl
Footballguy
Big swing and a miss. Thanks for letting me know my objective in thinking his breakdown was kinda fake - even though I have never stated he was a white supremacist and have not stated he was guilty
I later corrected and said on a third watch I saw a single tear from a guy that was sobbing.
matttyl
Footballguy
Catching up on thread every 20 minutes or so by phone at office. Read WaPo article stating he “broke down” while on stats with picture of his clearly having tears. That’s tough to fake.
HellToupee
Footballguy
Call 911?? 
He's not unlikeable at all in my opinion. Just the opposite. He's got a child-like demeanor - probably a bit on the naive side. Big eyes, rolly poly... answers questions honestly and respectfully... You want to see unlikeable look at the Commie Grosskreutz. One of the most punchable faces with an attitude to match.
unckeyherb
Footballguy
The Big Donkey
Footballguy
Eli got 3 FCC complaints for the double bird during the manning cast. i've heard a lot of f bombs from binger.
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
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Insoxicated
Why not? Hand on the stock isn't a threating posture at all... it's standard form for steadying a rifle on a sling while at rest. Law enforcement at rest will do the same. In fact it's the exact opposite of a threatening posture. Even Patrol Carry (with both hands on the firearm, aimed at the ground) is an "at rest" position, a responsible means of controlling a firearm while at rest.
Threatening posture could POSSIBLY be holding the weapon at low-ready or high-ready, with a hand on grip and one on handguard... but even that is a defensive posture.
I'll be honest... I'm not sure how much experience you have with firearms... reading this thread.
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HellToupee
Footballguy
Does Rittenhouse have a defense lawyer?? Holy smokes pipe up some
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Insoxicated
Yeah there have been so many places I would have objected. My guess is he doesn't want to give the jury the perception the Prosecution is making any headway.
unckeyherb
Footballguy
Could be - but in that environment I see any way it wasn't perceived as threatening by some to many.
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