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"Mass Casualty Event" in Las Vegas (2 Viewers)

GroveDiesel said:
I suppose it's a fundamental difference in how to view the issue. Lots of people see a gun problem, and that's certainly valid and there is no question that guns make it easier to kill more people at a time. 

Others see the root problem more as a culture and general violence problem.

Personally, I think that solving the root problems is more important and would provide more long-term benefits than solving the gun issue. And when we talk root problems, the motivation and reasoning for why gang violence vs. domestic disputes vs. crime-related shootings are all slightly different and need to be understood and addressed as such.

In my mind, simply looking at the guns portion while ignoring the festering cultural issue is like taking Tylenol for a horrible recurring headache while neglecting to do anything about the tumor in the head causing the headaches.
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These are complex issues no doubt and no matter how we breakdown the numbers, the numbers are disturbingly high. Americans seem to have an obsession with violence that is uncommon in the 1st world. I do think the best long term solution is to address what is at the heart of those issues. However, doctors tend to treat both the causes and the symptoms. We should probably do the same when it comes to violence. Also, I am not entirely sure we can say the motivation behind killing your family is really different from killing strangers. At this point, the motive for the Vegas shooting seems non-existant. Even in other similar mass shooitngs, the motives vary widely from religion based hate, race based hate, political based hate, revenge on employers, revenge on those that have slighted them, etc. Charles Whitman killed his family and then strangers for no apparent reason (speculation he had a tumor on his brain that maybe turned him violent).Pulse was maybe sort of religion based but also there may have been some sexual issues too. The guy that killed 21 people near a California McDonalds did it for no apprent reason other than "he felt he had mental problems". It just seems difficult to me to pin down the characteristiscs of these things beyond: number of victims, type of weapon and age/gender/race. The things that seem the most common denominators are guns and males. 

 
mr. furley said:
what can be done to stop the media from replaying the scene of the shooting?

####. we get it. some loon shot down a bunch of innocent people. there's no need to replay it every 3 seconds. it's everywhere. no matter what station you turn on. no matter who is talking. there, in the background, people running for their lives over the clatter of automatic rifle fire.

just ####### stop already

report on it, yes. interview officials and witnesses, fine. continually show people being massacred... why?
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I won't watch it. Haven't yet. 

 
mr. furley said:
what can be done to stop the media from replaying the scene of the shooting?

####. we get it. some loon shot down a bunch of innocent people. there's no need to replay it every 3 seconds. it's everywhere. no matter what station you turn on. no matter who is talking. there, in the background, people running for their lives over the clatter of automatic rifle fire.

just ####### stop already

report on it, yes. interview officials and witnesses, fine. continually show people being massacred... why?
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Because people watch it. They click on it thousands and thousands of times. They view it thousands and thousands of times. 

We can choose not to watch it. 

Me: I don't. I won't. I will never click or watch a video of violence and death. Don't need to see it to know it happened.

 
Chemical X said:
i guess my point is that the amount of weapons is not out of the ordinary.  i don't come from a gun culture, but i can understand someone having a gun or two.  to me, someone with upwards of maybe 20 long rifles is a bit askew.
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I can find a need for about 5, but I hunt, so I can see someone collecting 20 over the years.  I own 3 rifles, 2 shotguns, and 3 handguns, personally, and I wouldn't consider myself anywhere close to an active collector.  I will also add a rifle in the next few months.  I don't fire enough rounds through my handguns to warrant having them, but everything else is useful to me.

 
tommyboy said:
Isis doubling down on their claim he was a recent convert. 
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That should be pretty easy for the government to determine. Of course ISIS knows even if the FBI clearly knows it is a false claim, just having the idea out there will convince a certain segment of the population it is true either through their own confirmation bias or general ignorance of the story. 

 
jplvr said:
I can find a need for about 5, but I hunt, so I can see someone collecting 20 over the years.  I own 3 rifles, 2 shotguns, and 3 handguns, personally, and I wouldn't consider myself anywhere close to an active collector.  I will also add a rifle in the next few months.  I don't fire enough rounds through my handguns to warrant having them, but everything else is useful to me.
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The scary part is that some of these mass killers were very normal people before the event. Nobody ever wants to think they will become homicidal, but nodody ever wants to think they will develop alzheimers, schizophrenia,a TBI or a brain tumor in the wrong spot on the brain, etc. We know very clearly that some people that buy weapons for innocent purposes end up acting extremely out of characer for reasons out of their control.

 
Ilov80s said:
 Of course ISIS knows even if the FBI clearly knows it is a false claim, just having the idea out there will convince a certain segment of the population it is true either through their own confirmation bias or general ignorance of the story. 
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Exactly. They want their name tied to this. Desperation play given how badly on their heels they currently are. 

 
Nathan R. Jessep said:
I haven't yet seen a list of what weapons were found, but an arsenal of semi-automatic weapons is not out of the ordinary for hunters, collectors and shooting enthusiasts. But of course, any fully automatic weapons would be illegal, and I'd think should fall in the "out of the ordinary" category. 
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I am the Richie Cunningham-iest dude on the planet and even I know where to get "something heavy" if I've got the cash

Edit to add: settle down Christo

 
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culdeus said:
This one doesn't fit into a narrative of one that will stay in the news very long.  No kids were shot, the perp was killed, wasn't a muslim.  Just some lonely old white guy with some grudge we don't care about.

Already trending downwards on Reddit and the story for most people isn't even 2 hours old.   Strange world we live in.
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Shocking (Not really) but pathetic post.

Some people just can't help themselves I guess.

 
Ilov80s said:
The scary part is that some of these mass killers were very normal people before the event. Nobody ever wants to think they will become homicidal, but nodody ever wants to think they will develop alzheimers, schizophrenia,a TBI or a brain tumor in the wrong spot on the brain, etc. We know very clearly that some people that buy weapons for innocent purposes end up acting extremely out of characer for reasons out of their control.
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I just don't care enough to defend my hypothetical self against your strawman argument.

 
Chemical X said:
i guess my point is that the amount of weapons is not out of the ordinary.  i don't come from a gun culture, but i can understand someone having a gun or two.  to me, someone with upwards of maybe 20 long rifles is a bit askew.
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It is absolutely askew. I dont think the police said otherwise. My point was that they already knew this right away when they crashed into his room. That's the point I was trying to make. A large weapons cache is pretty much implied here. What would be more surprising if he had 20 or if this was the first gun he had ever bought and the only gun used to rain down thousands of bullets?

The police were making a statement that now that they are digging into his past and his life they haven't found anything out of the ordinary. Outside of the obvious things they already know are way out of left field, like killing 58 people, raining down bullets, blowing out windows, having lots of guns,  etc. 

You are trying to say something the police didn't say. They didn't say having 20 weapons is normal. 

 
Ilov80s said:
I am not arguing with you, just talking about stuff.
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Fair enough.  I tried to read that a few different ways before responding.

I typed out this sentence before deleting everything: I do agree we have a mental health issue which can be problematic with our gun laws.

 
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jplvr said:
Fair enough.  I tried to read that a few different ways before responding.

I typed out this sentence before deleting everything: I do agree we have a mental health issue which can be problematic with our gun laws.
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Just saying it's tough because even if someone is totally sane and rational (as this guy seemed to be) when he got the weapons, he clearly wasn't Sunday night. Almost like a dog that's been great for 5 years and then attacks the neighbor's kid for no reason. We are animials too and as much as we think we control ourselves, we can lose it. It's scary. A friend of mine had a complete mental breakdown around the age of 23. He was living with a friend and his dad. He stole all their money and their truck. He tried to get all their weapons but luckily they were locked up. He went from a super smart career focused young man to disappearing and calling his girlfriend from a hotel 6 States away saying he didn't know where he was at or how he got there. He has spent the rest of his life having on and off again mental breakdowns and is heavily medicated. It all came out completley out of nowhere though. 

 
Ilov80s said:
Just saying it's tough because even if someone is totally sane and rational (as this guy seemed to be) when he got the weapons, he clearly wasn't Sunday night. Almost like a dog that's been great for 5 years and then attacks the neighbor's kid for no reason. We are animials too and as much as we think we control ourselves, we can lose it. It's scary. A friend of mine had a complete mental breakdown around the age of 23. He was living with a friend and his dad. He stole all their money and their truck. He tried to get all their weapons but luckily they were locked up. He went from a super smart career focused young man to disappearing and calling his girlfriend from a hotel 6 States away saying he didn't know where he was at or how he got there. He has spent the rest of his life having on and off again mental breakdowns and is heavily medicated. It all came out completley out of nowhere though. 
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You might find this interesting:

http://www.radiolab.org/story/317627-fault-line/

 
SHIZNITTTT said:
I really don't think we will ever have a clear answer or even a good discussion about gun violence.    No one is taking it seriously.   Hell if someone can go into a school and shoot the most innocent of American citizens than nothing is ever going to change.   
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I think a lot of people are taking it seriously. The question is: what can be done to reduce (not prevent, because that would be impossible) these types of mass killings via firearms without infringing upon the natural rights of those who would choose to defend themselves with firearms.

 
Ilov80s said:
Cool thanks, I will check it out. I have kicked around the idea of a neo-noir story of a guy that sees his dad/brother go off the deep end and becomes paranoid about it happening to him. His own paranoid about becoming "crazy" pushes him closer and closer to the edge. is he crazy? Did he make himself crazy? Was his craziness inevitable? 
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Then it turns out the "Dad/Brother" was just a part of his alter-ego and he was crazy all the time.  Boom. Shamalamalan twist.

 
tommyboy said:
was on the local radio station at lunch time.

related to this  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4942188/Police-respond-reports-active-shooter-USC.html

guy that reported on the local radio probably saw it on twitter
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not saying they're always wrong... but IME, dailymail is one of those sites that will just spit out anything with blaring headlines to try to get clicks. they definitely play fast and loose with stories, erring on getting it out there rather than getting it right.

as such, I tend to ignore any headlines and stories from them. my 2c

 
El Floppo said:
not saying they're always wrong... but IME, dailymail is one of those sites that will just spit out anything with blaring headlines to try to get clicks. they definitely play fast and loose with stories, erring on getting it out there rather than getting it right.

as such, I tend to ignore any headlines and stories from them. my 2c
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There were local NBC affiliates reporting that there was repots of shots fired.  

 
cockroach said:
El Floppo said:
not saying they're always wrong... but IME, dailymail is one of those sites that will just spit out anything with blaring headlines to try to get clicks. they definitely play fast and loose with stories, erring on getting it out there rather than getting it right.

as such, I tend to ignore any headlines and stories from them. my 2c
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There were local NBC affiliates reporting that there was repots of shots fired.  
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fair enough... but he linked the daily mail. 

 
JFC

"As of now we know multiple Kern County residents were shot last night, including a BPD officer and a young woman who lost her life. Angelica Soto and her best friend were also shot, but are expected to survive. Soto's sister, Gabby, was seven months pregnant when she was killed by a suspected DUI driver this summer. 

Our thoughts and prayers are with everyone affected by this horrific tragedy."

 
El Floppo said:
ugh... just seeing stories about a fired CBS exec who made a/some really terrible comments on social media.
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Can always count on someone (or several) saying stupid stuff like that after events like this. 

Ready they fired her too.

 
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sho nuff said:
El Floppo said:
ugh... just seeing stories about a fired CBS exec who made a/some really terrible comments on social media.
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Can always count on someone (or several) saying stupid stuff like that after events like this. 

Ready they fired her too.
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that's good. 

it's one thing for one of us to be an idiot in here- I kind of expect it.

but for somebody that gets paid to be in the business using social media that irresponsibly- good riddance.

 
tommyboy said:
only because that was the first link that popped up on google when i searched USC active shooter.

as I said, I heard it on the local radio at lunch time
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gotcha. I went with what I was given, and vis a vis somebody commenting laughingly about your sources. 

I still stand behind what I said about the dailymail though.

 
El Floppo said:
gotcha. I went with what I was given, and vis a vis somebody commenting laughingly about your sources. 

I still stand behind what I said about the dailymail though.
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no biggy.  they aren't bookmarked on my computer.   only time i read them is if someone posts a link or it comes up in a search

 
any more word about motive? 

as somebody mentioned early on, this guy planned this... wasn't just a whim to carry that amount of weaponry to the room. there has to be some journal entry or discussion with friends/internet/somethign that explains why a purported "normal" guy would come to this.

 
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