Michael Vick or Ben Roethlisberger? (1 Viewer)

[Joe Bryant]

Not really sure if this is Shark Pool material but thought I'd try it here and see.

If you had to root for one of these guys, who would it be? And yes, that may mean you despise one a little less than the other.

Conditions: Please base your answer totally on just the guy's character. Not the team or their ability.

J

 

[Hang 10]

Definitely Vick. Cruelty to dawgs ain't nearly as bad cruelty to wimmen.

 

[Dope]

Vick by a lot.

i'd much rather have someone kill my dog than abuse my wife/daughter.

 

[pettifogger]

Vick by a little based on his "apology"

 

[gianmarco]

People > Dogs.

 

[timschochet]

Big Ben by lot. He's been a jerk toward women. Vick has committed felonies. Big difference.

 

[CaptainHook]

vick is a guy with a rough background who learned his lesson in a major way and grew up.

roethlesberger is just human garbage down to his core.

 

[Joe Bryant]

FWIW, I voted Vick by a lot.

J

 

[gianmarco]

Big Ben by lot. He's been a jerk toward women. Vick has committed felonies. Big difference.

Saying Ben was a "jerk toward women" is about the same as Vick was a "jerk toward dogs".

 

[Hang 10]

Big Ben by lot. He's been a jerk toward women. Vick has committed felonies. Big difference.

Ben committed felonies too, if you believe the police report. He just didn't get convicted.

 

[cstu]

Big Ben by lot. He's been a jerk toward women. Vick has committed felonies. Big difference.

Saying Ben was a "jerk toward women" is about the same as Vick was a "jerk toward dogs".

 

[cstu]

Vick by a lot.i'd much rather have someone kill my dog than abuse my wife/daughter.

This should be everyone's answer.

 

[timschochet]

Big Ben by lot. He's been a jerk toward women. Vick has committed felonies. Big difference.

Saying Ben was a "jerk toward women" is about the same as Vick was a "jerk toward dogs".

Which women did Ben murder? Or rape, for that matter?

 

[HellToupee]

Vick by a hell of a lot

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Big Ben by lot. He's been a jerk toward women. Vick has committed felonies. Big difference.

Saying Ben was a "jerk toward women" is about the same as Vick was a "jerk toward dogs".

Which women did Ben murder? Or rape, for that matter?

I think he's saying Vick locked himself in a bathroom with dogs while his posse guarded the door.

 

[HellToupee]

Big Ben by lot. He's been a jerk toward women. Vick has committed felonies. Big difference.

Saying Ben was a "jerk toward women" is about the same as Vick was a "jerk toward dogs".

Which women did Ben murder? Or rape, for that matter?

wow

 

[timschochet]

When did "innocent until proven guilty" become "I suspect he's guilty of something, therefore he's a scumbag"? Lots of awfully judgmental people around here.

 

[Masked Vigilante]

Joe

This thread will not end well.

 

[DoubleG]

Big Ben by lot. He's been a jerk toward women. Vick has committed felonies. Big difference.

Ben committed felonies too, if you believe the police report. He just didn't get convicted.

This.Something is wrong or right based on it's inherent value, not whether or not you are caught and legally charged for the offense.And please spare me the "innocent until proven guilty" speech. Where there are four huge billows of smoke there is typically a fire or two.

 

[timschochet]

Big Ben by lot. He's been a jerk toward women. Vick has committed felonies. Big difference.

Saying Ben was a "jerk toward women" is about the same as Vick was a "jerk toward dogs".

Which women did Ben murder? Or rape, for that matter?

I think he's saying Vick locked himself in a bathroom with dogs while his posse guarded the door.

Roethlisberger locked himself in a bathroom with a girl while friends of his guarded the door. How is this a crime? If the police didn't think it was, then why do you?

 

[Joe Bryant]

JoeThis thread will not end well.

Yeah, wondering about that. We'll see.J

 

[Idiot Boxer]

We're the dogs wearing pins that said Down to Fight?

I have no problem with people thinking BB is a jerk, because he's a monumental one. I do have a problem with people reading the statements of the sorority girls made in a drunken and worked up state as 'gospel'

The 'rapist' talk, I think, is pretty unfair and smacks of pitchforks and torches.

He's a jerk and I won't mind seeing him gone from the Steelers if it comes to that, but the self-righteousness and judgment going on in this thread (and umteen others) based upon conjecture around a guy that wasn't even charged with a crime is over-the-top.

 

[timschochet]

And please spare me the "innocent until proven guilty" speech. Where there are four huge billows of smoke there is typically a fire or two.

It is this assumption, which is so common nowadays, that has me more upset than anything else. We are not a society that usually relies on "when there's smoke, there's fire." This sort of argument typically brings out the worst in people, as it did during the McCarthy era. Based on WHAT WE KNOW, Ben Roethlisberger has behaved like a jerk and a boor toward women. THERE IS NO EVIDENCE OF ANYTHING ELSE. He did not hit any women, as so many NFL players have. He did not murder anyone, as a significant number of NFL players have.

 

[Masked Vigilante]

Joe

This thread will not end well.

Yeah, wondering about that. We'll see.J

I just don't think you can have this type of discussion without slandering both Big Ben and/or Vick. One poster will verbally attack another and next thing you know its become a full on flame war. It will get real quick.

 

[r3t2]

ben by a lot...and i want him run out of town.

here's why: vick admitted that he did all the stuff he was accused of. what kind of sick b@stard could strangle, drown, and electrocute animals repeatedly and delight in them being mauled for sport? to delight in torture while animals struggle and cry for help is beyond description.

what do we KNOW about ben? the evidence looks pretty bad, but it "might" have been that he got a girl drunk and took advantage of her. certainly it seems that the best you can say about him is that he's a creep and ridiculously immature, but we don't know that the worst you can say about him is true. with vick there isn't a shred of doubt.

i hope like hell ben gets traded because even if he is innocent of any crime, he's still not a good guy and i dont want to cheer for him.

 

[5-ish Finkle]

JoeThis thread will not end well.

Yeah, wondering about that. We'll see.J

"We'll see?"It took all of about 10 replies to turn into another pi@$#@ing match about Roethlisberger's guilt/innocence instead of what you actually wanted the thread to be about, just like the other dozen Roethlisberger threads that have spanned volumes.We needed yet another thread to prove what we pretty much already know?

 

[KellysHeroes]

Big Ben by lot. He's been a jerk toward women. Vick has committed felonies. Big difference.

Saying Ben was a "jerk toward women" is about the same as Vick was a "jerk toward dogs".

Which women did Ben murder? Or rape, for that matter?

I think he's saying Vick locked himself in a bathroom with dogs while his posse guarded the door.

Roethlisberger locked himself in a bathroom with a girl while friends of his guarded the door. How is this a crime? If the police didn't think it was, then why do you?

They did want to arrest him and put him away, however the bathroom got cleaned before any evidence could be bagged and tagged. The whole Ben thing was so bad that an office had to resign... and you think he didn't do anything? I don't like either one, but Vick has served his time by both the NFL and Society... I vote for him by a lot.

 

[timschochet]

We're the dogs wearing pins that said Down to Fight?I have no problem with people thinking BB is a jerk, because he's a monumental one. I do have a problem with people reading the statements of the sorority girls made in a drunken and worked up state as 'gospel'The 'rapist' talk, I think, is pretty unfair and smacks of pitchforks and torches. He's a jerk and I won't mind seeing him gone from the Steelers if it comes to that, but the self-righteousness and judgment going on in this thread (and umteen others) based upon conjecture around a guy that wasn't even charged with a crime is over-the-top.

 

[DoubleG]

And please spare me the "innocent until proven guilty" speech. Where there are four huge billows of smoke there is typically a fire or two.

It is this assumption, which is so common nowadays, that has me more upset than anything else. We are not a society that usually relies on "when there's smoke, there's fire." This sort of argument typically brings out the worst in people, as it did during the McCarthy era. Based on WHAT WE KNOW, Ben Roethlisberger has behaved like a jerk and a boor toward women. THERE IS NO EVIDENCE OF ANYTHING ELSE. He did not hit any women, as so many NFL players have. He did not murder anyone, as a significant number of NFL players have.

The question was not "Is BB the worst" the question is "compared to Vick" - if you're going to fish, at least use the right bait there Sparky.

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]

ben by a lot...and i want him run out of town. here's why: vick admitted that he did all the stuff he was accused of. what kind of sick b@stard could strangle, drown, and electrocute animals repeatedly and delight in them being mauled for sport? to delight in torture while animals struggle and cry for help is beyond description.what do we KNOW about ben? the evidence looks pretty bad, but it "might" have been that he got a girl drunk and took advantage of her. certainly it seems that the best you can say about him is that he's a creep and ridiculously immature, but we don't know that the worst you can say about him is true. with vick there isn't a shred of doubt. i hope like hell ben gets traded because even if he is innocent of any crime, he's still not a good guy and i dont want to cheer for him.

And FTR I've been pretty vocal about calling big ben a ##### around here.

 

[Chase Stuart]

And please spare me the "innocent until proven guilty" speech. Where there are four huge billows of smoke there is typically a fire or two.

It is this assumption, which is so common nowadays, that has me more upset than anything else. We are not a society that usually relies on "when there's smoke, there's fire." This sort of argument typically brings out the worst in people, as it did during the McCarthy era. Based on WHAT WE KNOW, Ben Roethlisberger has behaved like a jerk and a boor toward women. THERE IS NO EVIDENCE OF ANYTHING ELSE. He did not hit any women, as so many NFL players have. He did not murder anyone, as a significant number of NFL players have.

There's lots of evidence of other stuff. There's evidence indicating that he sexually assaulted a girl. You just don't want to give any of it any weight. That doesn't make you right.

 

[Dope]

When did "innocent until proven guilty" become "I suspect he's guilty of something, therefore he's a scumbag"? Lots of awfully judgmental people around here.

Love to hear your thoughts about O.J.

 

[Masked Vigilante]

When did "innocent until proven guilty" become "I suspect he's guilty of something, therefore he's a scumbag"? Lots of awfully judgmental people around here.

Love to hear your thoughts about O.J.

Innocent.

 

[Idiot Boxer]

When did "innocent until proven guilty" become "I suspect he's guilty of something, therefore he's a scumbag"? Lots of awfully judgmental people around here.

Love to hear your thoughts about O.J.

At least they had enough to charge him.

 

[timschochet]

Joe, also in answer to your main question, and I know this may anger some people, but I truly believe there is an element of racism in many people's reactions as well. Quite simply, society holds white people to a higher standard. If you look around the NFL, its almost as if we expect Blacks, especially those from poor backgrounds, to behave like scum, to hit their wives and girlfriends, to get in trouble with the law. So long as they perform on the field, its all good.

But when a white guy gets in trouble, everyone is morally outraged and we are all much quicker to condemn him now and forever. There is no forgiveness, and he needs to be sent packing. Because what's unstated is that as a white athlete he's supposed to have superior ethics and be a role model. Thus, the outrage is much greater.

 

[ScottyFargo]

First instinct is to say that heading a dog fighting ring is not as bad as targeting women for sexual abuse but then I remember that Vick was accused of knowingly giving an incurable STD to a sex partner which is another form of sexual abuse, so it's not an easy choice.

Still can't root for Roethlisberger given the details that came out recently.

 

[HellToupee]

When did "innocent until proven guilty" become "I suspect he's guilty of something, therefore he's a scumbag"? Lots of awfully judgmental people around here.

Love to hear your thoughts about O.J.

and so it begins

 

[Pickle Rody]

Joe, I didn't bother to read through the thread because my first thought in seeing this thread was:

Why?

Why ask?

Why does it matter?

What does it have to do with fantasy football?

I did note vote.

 

[One]

Ben, not even close.

 

[timschochet]

And please spare me the "innocent until proven guilty" speech. Where there are four huge billows of smoke there is typically a fire or two.

It is this assumption, which is so common nowadays, that has me more upset than anything else. We are not a society that usually relies on "when there's smoke, there's fire." This sort of argument typically brings out the worst in people, as it did during the McCarthy era. Based on WHAT WE KNOW, Ben Roethlisberger has behaved like a jerk and a boor toward women. THERE IS NO EVIDENCE OF ANYTHING ELSE. He did not hit any women, as so many NFL players have. He did not murder anyone, as a significant number of NFL players have.

There's lots of evidence of other stuff. There's evidence indicating that he sexually assaulted a girl. You just don't want to give any of it any weight. That doesn't make you right.

It doesn't make me wrong either. What you call "evidence" is not compelling IMO. If it was, I would certainly have a different viewpoint.

 

[timschochet]

In the case of OJ, from what I saw and read at the time, the evidence was compelling that he had committed murder. That is not the case here.

 

[aaawall91]

Roethlisberger hasn't been convicted of anything. And i still don't believe he is guilty of anything more than just doing what most college guys do, many proffesional athletes, and thousands of other people which is use the situation they are in or anything else they have to their advantage (besides physical strenght) to try and get a girl to...well...you know...and often time the girl is intoxicated and/or regrets it. But that doesn't mean the guy is a criminal...Maybe I believe this because I grew up in a college town and see all the dumb flusies doing the walk of shame the next day and I've met thousands of girls like them and I know how they act, and the excuses they use, and how often times they convince them selves of things that just make no sense. As I'm sure many of you know the same kind of girls.

And I've met Ben a few times, he came off as an arrogant jerk. But I have a hard time he or many world famous athletes would need to sink to the level of forcing a girl to have sex with him.

Vick was convicticed and spent time in jail.

For the record I'm a fan of both.

 

[Joe Bryant]

JoeThis thread will not end well.

Yeah, wondering about that. We'll see.J

"We'll see?"It took all of about 10 replies to turn into another pi@$#@ing match about Roethlisberger's guilt/innocence instead of what you actually wanted the thread to be about, just like the other dozen Roethlisberger threads that have spanned volumes.We needed yet another thread to prove what we pretty much already know?

I'm mostly interested in the "compare to Vick" angle. J

 

[DoubleG]

In the case of OJ, from what I saw and read at the time, the evidence was compelling that he had committed murder. That is not the case here.

You keep doing this. The question isn't OJ vs. BB. It's BB compared to Vick.

 

[BassNBrew]

People > Dogs.

At face value I would agree with you, however it goes a little deeper than that. The dogs had no choice in the matter. The last female has some control over the situation we she choose to consume alcohol in excess and hang with Ben in the first place. She made several choices that resulted in something bad happening. I'm not saying Ben should be given a free pass, just comparing it to the Vick situation. Until Ben at least gets charged with a crime then I'll root against Vick more than Ben.

 

[BassNBrew]

And please spare me the "innocent until proven guilty" speech. Where there are four huge billows of smoke there is typically a fire or two.

It is this assumption, which is so common nowadays, that has me more upset than anything else. We are not a society that usually relies on "when there's smoke, there's fire." This sort of argument typically brings out the worst in people, as it did during the McCarthy era. Based on WHAT WE KNOW, Ben Roethlisberger has behaved like a jerk and a boor toward women. THERE IS NO EVIDENCE OF ANYTHING ELSE. He did not hit any women, as so many NFL players have. He did not murder anyone, as a significant number of NFL players have.

There's lots of evidence of other stuff. There's evidence indicating that he sexually assaulted a girl. You just don't want to give any of it any weight. That doesn't make you right.

The prosecutor didn't give it that much weight either.

 

[TitansFan10]

This thread is a joke. Ben had drunk sex... Vick was guilty and admitted to heinous crimes. HELLO?

 

[Leroy Hoard]

In the case of OJ, from what I saw and read at the time, the evidence was compelling that he had committed murder. That is not the case here.

You keep doing this. The question isn't OJ vs. BB. It's BB compared to Vick.

Someone else brought up O.J.

 

[Young 8]

Roethlisberger accuser

http://www.bertknowsbmore.com/wp-content/u...ty-picture6.jpg

Vick accuser

http://www.blackparentmovement.com/blog/wp.../WoundedDog.bmp

 

[Hang 10]

Roethlisberger accuser

http://www.bertknowsbmore.com/wp-content/u...ty-picture6.jpg

Vick accuser

http://www.blackparentmovement.com/blog/wp.../WoundedDog.bmp

Vick & Ben got a lot more in common than I thought.