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I think you're confusing me with Yudkin.IMO, Rivers has outplayed Manning this year and is a worthy MVP candidate. He's been the best QB in the NFL. The Colts have a better D than SD but the Chargers have the better O.Ghost Rider said:
Turner will be hurt, IMO, by Ryan. Both doing so well with take away from the other.Is that fair? probably not.
I think San Diego accidentally shipped the wrong RB. That's really LT in Atlanta
Ryan has been good.... Turner has been great. The Falcons have leaned on Turner way more than they have of Ryan. Ryan is getting so much credit (deservedly) because of what he is doing as a rookie, but Turner has been the MVP of the falcons.
Ryan has been great this year without taking into account his rookie status.
Would you call any other QB great with these types of statistics if they were not a rookie???Ryan is 11th in passing yards16th in passing TD's16th in passing attempts17th in completion percentageLike I said Ryan has been good, but due to him being a rookie QB is what seems to make his season appear great. I mean he is going to be a great one and I understand that, but any other veteran QB who was having the type of season Ryan is having you would say they are having a good year. Ryan as a rookie gets the "great" status.
I think this is spot on as far as these guys' contributions to where their teams are but I would put Warner and Manning in there as well.But you could make the argument that the MVP for the league is a guy valuable to the league itself, not just his team. So who has fans tuning in to see what he does this season? Who has the compelling story that has captured the attention of NFL fans?
I would call any QB great when they rank in the top five of the league in adjusted net yards per attempt. He currently ranks third in that statistic; what more do you want him to do?If you want to look at ranks, look at them from top to bottom:
While I agree with Pennington as an MVP candidate, what's the difference between Turner getting help from Ryan and Pennington getting help from Ricky and Ronnie? They're got 333 carries, 1402 yards and 13 rushing TDs. Turner has 332-1421-15. Not a big difference there.
No way Warner deserves MVP consideration. He's averaging only 6.4 ANY/A despite having an incredible set of receivers and he's got a bunch of fumbles lost, too.
A few weeks ago, Id say you were way wrong. After watching how the entire team struggled without him though, I thought for a while you may be right (that and listening to too much Max Kellerman). But when I think about it further, as much as the Giants struggled without Jacobs, and as much as he is a subtle killer (meaning, even if he doesnt get a ton of yards, the way he tires a defense makes the entire offense run so much smoother, especially in crunch time), the fact is you can have a team with three Jacobs - without Eli, the Giants would be no where. Eli will not get the crazy stats, but he has games where he carries the team and has many, many moments in crunch time... the guy is just clutch.
But Pennington does? Miami's turnaround has more to do with their improvement on defense (28th last year; 15th this year) than anything else. Plus, Pennington has a better running game than Warner (Miami is 13th; Arizona is last/32nd). Given all of that, I would say Warner has been much more valuable to the Cardinals than Pennington has been to the Dolphins.
Pennington has put up better stats despite having a weaker supporting cast. Pennington has committed six turnovers this year to Warner's 19.
You listed better stats...but mention only one stat.And outside of WRs...Id say Pennington has a better supporting cast of Oline and Running game....and defense.
If just about anyone in it now except Manning gets it...it could be a first.Rivers, Williams, Pennington? All have cases for sure...without making the pro bowl.
He's also averaging slightly more yards per pass attempt.I feel pretty confident in stating that Warner's numbers would be worse in Miami than they are in Arizona.
And I feel pretty confident in stating that Pennington's numbers would not be as good as Warner's if he was in Arizona.ETA: While he deserves some mention, I don't think Pennington has done anything spectacular to be considered MVP. He has played a Dilfer like role in not killing them and letting the run game and defense do the work. He is a slightly better version of Kerry Collins IMO.
I think Pennington's numbers would be a bit better than they are now if he had Boldin and Fitzgerald instead of Ginn and Camarillo.
Yes, Rivers gets my vote as MVP.
If Im throwing out wins and selecting a QB as MVP based purely on numbers, then Id pick Brees over Rivers. Brees is having an all time passing season even if he DOESNT break Marino's record. It seems like at the very least he will break 5000 yards. Rivers has had a nice year but his numbers are less impressive than Brees.
I think Rivers' numbers are more impressive than Brees' numbers. FWIW, though, the Saints have more wins than the Chargers.
A bit better than now...sure. Better than Warner's...IMO no.
Rivers also benefits from playing on primetime for the division on the line. This will be Rivers' statement game.
Pennington's numbers now > Warner's now.
This is a little misleading imo. Ryan has made some big throws and is making some plays as his adjusted net yards per pass attempts shows.... but do you think the Falcons lean on Ryan as much as the other good teams do with their QB's? I mean he has thrown 413 times in comparison to P. Manning (6.8 any/a) who has thrown 548 times? Or Cutler (6.3) who has thrown 567 times? I mean Ryan is going to be a great one, but I think he is just having a good year, not yet a great one. Do you think Ryan would have any/a as high as he does without the running game the Falcons have had this season? Ryan deserves credit for having a good year, but I have trouble thinking its a great one.Chase Stuart said:
Sure I do. There's little correlation between a QB's ANY/A and the success of his team's running game.Ryan hasn't had to make as many throws, and that probably makes him less valuable compared to other guys. But I don't think it means he's been less great, and I think if called upon, he could do more. The Falcons are a very run heavy offense, but lots of QBs have ugly ANY/A numbers when they play on strong, run heavy teams. Ryan's really been terrific this year; he's third with an average of 6.82 ANY/A. Only Drew Brees and Philip Rivers have been better. He's the best rookie QB ever.
If San Diego beats Denver this weekend, I think Rivers gets it. If they don't, I don't think he will.Either way, I think he deserves serious consideration, and don't really think the outcome of this week's game should have any bearing. Unfortunately, I think it will weight heavily on the voters decisions.Smeagol said:
Way to pick out one random stat. Can I pick out the numerous stats where Warner puts Pennington to shame? Either way, Pennington clearly has a much stronger supporting cast around him (when taking the whole team into consideration), and yet, Warner is still putting up better overall numbers. Yes, Warner has more turnovers, but when you are the QB of a team with zero running game, you have to throw the ball a lot, and turnovers are gonna happen when you throw the ball as much as they do. We have all seen how awesome Warner is when he has the luxury of a running game. Pennington on his best day with a running game doesn't come close to the player that Warner is when he has a running game to complement his passing skills. That is pretty much a given.Chase Stuart said:
Why would the QB of a 7-8 team get mentioned? Even if the Chargers really win the division, do you really think a player from an 8-8 team should be strongly considered for MVP?
I do. You have no problem defending Warner whose team is currently 8-7. The Saints are also 8-7, and nobody has a problem putting Brees in the discussion.
Notice I have backed off the Warner for MVP talk. When the Cardinals had a very good record, I thought he was a leading contender, as did many, but as the Cardinals record has gone downhill, so have his chances, IMO. If you follow all of my posts in this thread, you will see that. In other words, because of the Cardinals pretty average record, I no longer consider Warner a top contender for the MVP award. He has had a terrific season, but being the MVP on a team that has an average record despite being in a terrible division does not make you the league's MVP. Same thing goes for Rivers.
Fair enough... I assumed because you had just defended Warner's numbers over Pennington's that you still considered a strong candidate for the award - perhaps a poor assumption on my part.
