Non-horrible Sandusky thread to discuss PSU sanctions (1 Viewer)

[JerseyToughGuys]

Can't believe people are saying this is not enough.

This is a very significant penalty to the school in terms of money, prestige, and ability to recruit/compete over the next few years. It takes a swipe at JoePa by knocking off the wins - which I am sure was the only reason for vacating the wins back to '98.

This punishes the school and the program. The criminal course can punish the individuals.

And to the guy that says "taking away Joe Pa's wins are only for stupid people" doesn't know crap about college football. Some people worship these coaches. Go to Alabama and say something about Bear Bryant and you are liable to get shot.

That's me and I stand by my statements. Just because a bunch of Alabama people think it's important doesn't make it so. You college football fanboys are a big problem with college football.

Us college fanboys are what is right with college football and what keeps college football so great. I figured you wouldn't understand. Go back to your ivory tower. I bet you have never played any competitive sport past JV.

BURN!~

 

[roadkill1292]

Can't believe people are saying this is not enough.This is a very significant penalty to the school in terms of money, prestige, and ability to recruit/compete over the next few years. It takes a swipe at JoePa by knocking off the wins - which I am sure was the only reason for vacating the wins back to '98.This punishes the school and the program. The criminal course can punish the individuals.

And to the guy that says "taking away Joe Pa's wins are only for stupid people" doesn't know crap about college football. Some people worship these coaches. Go to Alabama and say something about Bear Bryant and you are liable to get shot.

That's me and I stand by my statements. Just because a bunch of Alabama people think it's important doesn't make it so. You college football fanboys are a big problem with college football.

Us college fanboys are what is right with college football and what keeps college football so great. I figured you wouldn't understand. Go back to your ivory tower. I bet you have never played any competitive sport past JV.

Looking back on my responses I think I have been unnecessarily baiting and insulting the passionate fans of college football teams and I apologize for it.

 

[SHIZNITTTT]

How are these in any way absurd? If anything, these are wholly and completely inadequate and the NCAA really chickened out here.USC got basically 3 years of probation (3 years of reduced scholarships, 2 year post season ban) for putting an athlete's parents up in a nice house. 11 years of covering up child rape so you could go on making money is worth one more year than that? What a joke.The idea that the death penalty would hurt the people that weren't involved was always stupid. There's a word for that. It's called life, and it's not always fair. When corporate executives screw up and run a company out of business all the low level workers that had nothing to do with that lose their jobs as well. The ability to transfer without penalty will take care of that anyway. Hopefully the majority of the athletes that are still there will at least do the right thing and get out of there anyway.This needed to be something that scared all universities into realizing that football isn't more important than doing what's right. A 4 year probation is going to have zero effect on that. The NCAA doles out probations all the time and other universities continue to break the same rules. It doesn't scare anyone off. Teams bounce back from probation strong as ever. Florida went from probation to a 15 year run in the top 5. USC is the preseason #1 team their first year off it.$60 million dollar fine? 1 year's gross revenue? The point is that money is not greater than doing what's right, so take away all the money they made from not having that very simple value. Fine them the profits they made between 2001-2012, the period where they covered up what was going on, even if it takes them 20 years to pay it off.####ies.

Great posting!

 

[Bigboy10182000]

Not sure where to put this but I found it interesting:

From ESPN Radio ... last official JoePa win now Nov. 1997 vs. Wisc. His starting quarterback? Mike McQueary.

 

[Guest]

Big Ten punishment is PSU give their share of bowl revenue to charity and won't be eligible for the Big Ten Championship for the next 4 years.

For how long? I thought the NCAA already banned them from and post-season play. I guess I assumed that included the Big Ten Championship.

For 4 years on both. NCAA ruling seems to only be bowl games so the Big Ten ruling says no Big Ten Championship either.Wonder how this affects other Big Ten teams, since now a win against PSU won't do much for their ranking and a loss would probably cause a huge drop.

There will be a slight impact. Penn State is Nebraska's designated cross-division rival. Not sure how I feel about that.

 

[cheese]

I know I am in the minority, but I like the vacated wins. By doing that, the NCAA seems to be saying that had this been handled correctly from the beginning, there would likely have been sanctions then. That would have likely impacted recruiting, total scholarships and probably WINS. No one can change the past, but this is about the only way the NCAA can attempt to show every other school in the NCAA that if you put football over keeping kids safe, then you will lose and lose big. As others have stated, the death penalty would be a blip on the screen (and not a guarantee to change the culture). The totality of these sanctions will hopefully change the culture.

If this had been handled correctly from the beginning, how would there have been sanctions? Based on what?

Had they handled in 1998? No, I think the NCAA would not have done anything then. But we are 14 years removed from 1998 now. Had they come clean 5 years ago? Yes there would have been sanctions. The institution continued to endanger kids by not coming clean. And they seemed to do this to keep their competitive edge in recruitment, scholarships and to get more football wins.

I think you're dramatically overstating the "competitive edge" gained by not reporting the problem in 98 or 2000.

Maybe so, but it's more than zero and once their is some amount of competitive edge by illegal activity, the NCAA gets involved. Once they get involved in a case this terrible, the punishment becomes what you see today.

 

[Limp Ditka]

Not sure where to put this but I found it interesting:From ESPN Radio ... last official JoePa win now Nov. 1997 vs. Wisc. His starting quarterback? Mike McQueary.

I'd put it about two - three pages ago, but to each their own.

 

[Limp Ditka]

Can't believe people are saying this is not enough.This is a very significant penalty to the school in terms of money, prestige, and ability to recruit/compete over the next few years. It takes a swipe at JoePa by knocking off the wins - which I am sure was the only reason for vacating the wins back to '98.This punishes the school and the program. The criminal course can punish the individuals.

And to the guy that says "taking away Joe Pa's wins are only for stupid people" doesn't know crap about college football. Some people worship these coaches. Go to Alabama and say something about Bear Bryant and you are liable to get shot.

That's me and I stand by my statements. Just because a bunch of Alabama people think it's important doesn't make it so. You college football fanboys are a big problem with college football.

Us college fanboys are what is right with college football and what keeps college football so great. I figured you wouldn't understand. Go back to your ivory tower. I bet you have never played any competitive sport past JV.

Did you attend LSU?

 

[The Noid]

Outside of no punishment at all, I think this is the least amount of impact to the current players/coaches people are up in arms about "wrongly" being punished. The institution is being punished for their (in)actions, and some of that will have to trickle down to the current team, unfortunately. But at least they still get to play, showcase their skills for the NFL, etc.

Why should "We Are..." only go one way?

 

[Bigboy10182000]

Not sure where to put this but I found it interesting:From ESPN Radio ... last official JoePa win now Nov. 1997 vs. Wisc. His starting quarterback? Mike McQueary.

I'd put it about two - three pages ago, but to each their own.

 

[renesauz]

Let me try to articulate this another way.

1. It's absurd to try to punish the culture of PSU because that culture is no different than it is at virtually every school with a big time football program. You can't fix it by singling out one school.

2. Any competitive advantage gained by PSU on the actual football field was minimal. Had the right thing been done at the right time, the damage to the school and football program would have been small. Because there would have been damage...I can see the argument that the NCAA could and should levy punishment...but the crimes were individual ones not directly related to football. Punishments for violations like this should be in line with the real "advantage" (or, in this case, averted damage) gained, not overly punitive.

3. The crimes in this case really were limited to a handful of people...and are being handled by the courts. People who had nothing to do with it, and more importantly, gained nothing from the cover up, are being punished. That's not justice. Cowherd said this better than me.

As a final point....nobody defending PSU is defending what happened, or the individuals concerned. I am in no way trying to minimize the harm. I'm a victim of this kind of abuse myself, and there's no way in heck I would want to punish the rest of my family for what my uncle did to me or my siblings.

 

[GroveDiesel]

Since the NCAA is allowing any current players to transfer with no penalty and the schools taking them in to increase their scholarships, I like that the whiners can no longer complain about the innocent getting punished.

 

[GroveDiesel]

For those saying PSU didn't gain any advantage, why did they all cover it up then? If they didn't think that doing the right thing would have hurt them in some way, they wouldn't have all covered it up to begin with.

 

[jdelsas]

Can't believe people are saying this is not enough.This is a very significant penalty to the school in terms of money, prestige, and ability to recruit/compete over the next few years. It takes a swipe at JoePa by knocking off the wins - which I am sure was the only reason for vacating the wins back to '98.This punishes the school and the program. The criminal course can punish the individuals.

And to the guy that says "taking away Joe Pa's wins are only for stupid people" doesn't know crap about college football. Some people worship these coaches. Go to Alabama and say something about Bear Bryant and you are liable to get shot.

Bear Bryant also did not let his assistants rape children. Joe Pa is forever tarnished, and taking his wins from him (and his family) is something I am happy the NCAA decided to do. Anyone who thinks Penn State should not have been punished in this situation is an idiot. Simple as that.

 

[renesauz]

Outside of no punishment at all, I think this is the least amount of impact to the current players/coaches people are up in arms about "wrongly" being punished. The institution is being punished for their (in)actions, and some of that will have to trickle down to the current team, unfortunately. But at least they still get to play, showcase their skills for the NFL, etc.Why should "We Are..." only go one way?

The current players aren't getting hammered...but it's still a huge gut-punch to former players, alum, and fans.

 

[renesauz]

Can't believe people are saying this is not enough.This is a very significant penalty to the school in terms of money, prestige, and ability to recruit/compete over the next few years. It takes a swipe at JoePa by knocking off the wins - which I am sure was the only reason for vacating the wins back to '98.This punishes the school and the program. The criminal course can punish the individuals.

And to the guy that says "taking away Joe Pa's wins are only for stupid people" doesn't know crap about college football. Some people worship these coaches. Go to Alabama and say something about Bear Bryant and you are liable to get shot.

Bear Bryant also did not let his assistants rape children. Joe Pa is forever tarnished, and taking his wins from him (and his family) is something I am happy the NCAA decided to do. Anyone who thinks Penn State should not have been punished in this situation is an idiot. Simple as that.

So if your kid shoots someone, you're OK with going to jail too? Got it.Punishment should effect the guilty and minimze damage on the innocent...PERIOD. IN this case, the guilty are no longer a part of the program or university...and have much bigger porblems than these sanctions. These sanctions don't hurt the guilty..they hurt ONLY the innocent.FWIW...I hate the NCAA. I hate the way their rules are set up and enforced. Too complicated, too restrictive. Punishments often out of line with the benefits gained by the violations committed.

 

[Giant Wooden Badger]

Let me try to articulate this another way.1. It's absurd to try to punish the culture of PSU because that culture is no different than it is at virtually every school with a big time football program. You can't fix it by singling out one school.

This is precisely why it has to happen this way. This would likely have happened at every other major football program in much the same way.Penn State has to be hammered so that schools are not tempted to cover this sort of thing up in the future. Whether this is harsh enough to act as that deterrent is obviously debatable.

 

[David Dodds]

For those saying PSU didn't gain any advantage, why did they all cover it up then? If they didn't think that doing the right thing would have hurt them in some way, they wouldn't have all covered it up to begin with.

This is my take as well. Of course they gained a competitive advantage. I don't think anybody expects them to win as easily going forward now with the sanctions just administered. The same would have held true had the come clean 10+ years ago and faced punishments.

 

[CrossEyed]

Hearing now that other schools cannot go over the 85 scholarship limit.

But it would already be too late for a kid to transfer and play this year someplace else anyway. Probably why they made it that a player can keep his PSU scholarship even if he's not playing football at PSU. They can go to school for free this year, transfer next year, play immediately, and still have all 4 years of eligibility.

 

[netnalp]

Outside of no punishment at all, I think this is the least amount of impact to the current players/coaches people are up in arms about "wrongly" being punished. The institution is being punished for their (in)actions, and some of that will have to trickle down to the current team, unfortunately. But at least they still get to play, showcase their skills for the NFL, etc.Why should "We Are..." only go one way?

The current players aren't getting hammered...but it's still a huge gut-punch to former players, alum, and fans.

But the severity of that gut-punch is only as much as those former players, alum, and fans allow it to affect them. It could range from crushing to no impact at all. So any argument that you are punishing them is shallow.

 

[goonsquad]

Let me try to articulate this another way.

1. It's absurd to try to punish the culture of PSU because that culture is no different than it is at virtually every school with a big time football program. You can't fix it by singling out one school.

2. Any competitive advantage gained by PSU on the actual football field was minimal. Had the right thing been done at the right time, the damage to the school and football program would have been small. Because there would have been damage...I can see the argument that the NCAA could and should levy punishment...but the crimes were individual ones not directly related to football. Punishments for violations like this should be in line with the real "advantage" (or, in this case, averted damage) gained, not overly punitive.

3. The crimes in this case really were limited to a handful of people...and are being handled by the courts. People who had nothing to do with it, and more importantly, gained nothing from the cover up, are being punished. That's not justice. Cowherd said this better than me.

As a final point....nobody defending PSU is defending what happened, or the individuals concerned. I am in no way trying to minimize the harm. I'm a victim of this kind of abuse myself, and there's no way in heck I would want to punish the rest of my family for what my uncle did to me or my siblings.

If you only punish the "actual cost" after the fact, then there is no incentive for a school to do the right thing from the beginning. In other words, if it is determined that PSU would have suffered X amount had they not covered this up, it makes no sense to only punish them X now after the fact. The punishment NEEDS to be overly punitive to hopefully avoid cover-ups in the future.

 

[jdelsas]

Can't believe people are saying this is not enough.This is a very significant penalty to the school in terms of money, prestige, and ability to recruit/compete over the next few years. It takes a swipe at JoePa by knocking off the wins - which I am sure was the only reason for vacating the wins back to '98.This punishes the school and the program. The criminal course can punish the individuals.

And to the guy that says "taking away Joe Pa's wins are only for stupid people" doesn't know crap about college football. Some people worship these coaches. Go to Alabama and say something about Bear Bryant and you are liable to get shot.

So if your kid shoots someone, you're OK with going to jail too? Got it.Bear Bryant also did not let his assistants rape children. Joe Pa is forever tarnished, and taking his wins from him (and his family) is something I am happy the NCAA decided to do. Anyone who thinks Penn State should not have been punished in this situation is an idiot. Simple as that.

If my kid shot someone, and got away with for 15 years and continued to shoot people...all while I knew about it. Yes, I would be OK with going to jail too. In fact, I am pretty sure I would recieve a pretty stiff punishment from the courts in that situation.

 

[GeauxTigers]

Can't believe people are saying this is not enough.This is a very significant penalty to the school in terms of money, prestige, and ability to recruit/compete over the next few years. It takes a swipe at JoePa by knocking off the wins - which I am sure was the only reason for vacating the wins back to '98.This punishes the school and the program. The criminal course can punish the individuals.

And to the guy that says "taking away Joe Pa's wins are only for stupid people" doesn't know crap about college football. Some people worship these coaches. Go to Alabama and say something about Bear Bryant and you are liable to get shot.

That's me and I stand by my statements. Just because a bunch of Alabama people think it's important doesn't make it so. You college football fanboys are a big problem with college football.

Us college fanboys are what is right with college football and what keeps college football so great. I figured you wouldn't understand. Go back to your ivory tower. I bet you have never played any competitive sport past JV.

Did you attend LSU?

What does this have to do with anything?

 

[NCCommish]

I know I am in the minority, but I like the vacated wins. By doing that, the NCAA seems to be saying that had this been handled correctly from the beginning, there would likely have been sanctions then. That would have likely impacted recruiting, total scholarships and probably WINS. No one can change the past, but this is about the only way the NCAA can attempt to show every other school in the NCAA that if you put football over keeping kids safe, then you will lose and lose big. As others have stated, the death penalty would be a blip on the screen (and not a guarantee to change the culture). The totality of these sanctions will hopefully change the culture.

If this had been handled correctly from the beginning, how would there have been sanctions? Based on what?

Had they handled in 1998? No, I think the NCAA would not have done anything then. But we are 14 years removed from 1998 now. Had they come clean 5 years ago? Yes there would have been sanctions. The institution continued to endanger kids by not coming clean. And they seemed to do this to keep their competitive edge in recruitment, scholarships and to get more football wins.

I think you're dramatically overstating the "competitive edge" gained by not reporting the problem in 98 or 2000.

Yep. Seriously they get Sandusky out of there and he get prosecuted. That's it. Maybe a couple of folks find other places the first year and that's a big maybe but after that it's business as usual. This was all about Paterno and his rep, his legacy. It wasn't about keeping the athletes joining the program.

 

[CrossEyed]

Let me try to articulate this another way.

1. It's absurd to try to punish the culture of PSU because that culture is no different than it is at virtually every school with a big time football program. You can't fix it by singling out one school.

2. Any competitive advantage gained by PSU on the actual football field was minimal. Had the right thing been done at the right time, the damage to the school and football program would have been small. Because there would have been damage...I can see the argument that the NCAA could and should levy punishment...but the crimes were individual ones not directly related to football. Punishments for violations like this should be in line with the real "advantage" (or, in this case, averted damage) gained, not overly punitive.

3. The crimes in this case really were limited to a handful of people...and are being handled by the courts. People who had nothing to do with it, and more importantly, gained nothing from the cover up, are being punished. That's not justice. Cowherd said this better than me.

As a final point....nobody defending PSU is defending what happened, or the individuals concerned. I am in no way trying to minimize the harm. I'm a victim of this kind of abuse myself, and there's no way in heck I would want to punish the rest of my family for what my uncle did to me or my siblings.

Ah yes, the "everybody else is doing it, so why punish me?" defense.

 

[Limp Ditka]

Can't believe people are saying this is not enough.This is a very significant penalty to the school in terms of money, prestige, and ability to recruit/compete over the next few years. It takes a swipe at JoePa by knocking off the wins - which I am sure was the only reason for vacating the wins back to '98.This punishes the school and the program. The criminal course can punish the individuals.

And to the guy that says "taking away Joe Pa's wins are only for stupid people" doesn't know crap about college football. Some people worship these coaches. Go to Alabama and say something about Bear Bryant and you are liable to get shot.

That's me and I stand by my statements. Just because a bunch of Alabama people think it's important doesn't make it so. You college football fanboys are a big problem with college football.

Us college fanboys are what is right with college football and what keeps college football so great. I figured you wouldn't understand. Go back to your ivory tower. I bet you have never played any competitive sport past JV.

Did you attend LSU?

That does this have to do with anything?

I'll take that as a no.

 

[GeauxTigers]

Can't believe people are saying this is not enough.This is a very significant penalty to the school in terms of money, prestige, and ability to recruit/compete over the next few years. It takes a swipe at JoePa by knocking off the wins - which I am sure was the only reason for vacating the wins back to '98.This punishes the school and the program. The criminal course can punish the individuals.

And to the guy that says "taking away Joe Pa's wins are only for stupid people" doesn't know crap about college football. Some people worship these coaches. Go to Alabama and say something about Bear Bryant and you are liable to get shot.

Bear Bryant also did not let his assistants rape children. Joe Pa is forever tarnished, and taking his wins from him (and his family) is something I am happy the NCAA decided to do. Anyone who thinks Penn State should not have been punished in this situation is an idiot. Simple as that.

I agree with you and the decision made by the NCAA.

 

[CrossEyed]

The more I think about it, I think the fine should have been significantly larger. And I may have thrown in a tv ban on top of everything else. But otherwise I think the NCAA did a pretty good job on this.

 

[renesauz]

Let me try to articulate this another way.

1. It's absurd to try to punish the culture of PSU because that culture is no different than it is at virtually every school with a big time football program. You can't fix it by singling out one school.

2. Any competitive advantage gained by PSU on the actual football field was minimal. Had the right thing been done at the right time, the damage to the school and football program would have been small. Because there would have been damage...I can see the argument that the NCAA could and should levy punishment...but the crimes were individual ones not directly related to football. Punishments for violations like this should be in line with the real "advantage" (or, in this case, averted damage) gained, not overly punitive.

3. The crimes in this case really were limited to a handful of people...and are being handled by the courts. People who had nothing to do with it, and more importantly, gained nothing from the cover up, are being punished. That's not justice. Cowherd said this better than me.

As a final point....nobody defending PSU is defending what happened, or the individuals concerned. I am in no way trying to minimize the harm. I'm a victim of this kind of abuse myself, and there's no way in heck I would want to punish the rest of my family for what my uncle did to me or my siblings.

If you only punish the "actual cost" after the fact, then there is no incentive for a school to do the right thing from the beginning. In other words, if it is determined that PSU would have suffered X amount had they not covered this up, it makes no sense to only punish them X now after the fact. The punishment NEEDS to be overly punitive to hopefully avoid cover-ups in the future.

The people who did this are being punished by the courts and legal system far worse than anything the NCAA can do. These punishments aren't affecting the people they should most affect.Do we really need the NCAA to tell schools not to cover up a crime? REALLY????? I mean...it's one thing to tell schools not to cover up NCAA recruiting violations, but we don't need the NCAA to tell schools this. WE ALL KNOW THIS. WE ALL GET THIS. There was nothing proven or gained by today's punishments. Schools didn't need this to know what these individuals at PSU did was wrong. The NCAA punishes things that most of society couldn't care less about, and has no laws about. Society punishes this, our courts punish this. The NCAA is not punishing the guilty here.

 

[David Dodds]

The University President's Message says it best:

http://live.psu.edu/story/60475

The tragedy of child sexual abuse that occurred at our University altered the lives of innocent children. Today, as every day, our thoughts and prayers continue to be with the victims of Mr. Sandusky and all other victims of child abuse.

Against this backdrop, Penn State accepts the penalties and corrective actions announced today by the NCAA. With today’s announcement and the action it requires of us, the University takes a significant step forward.

The NCAA ruling holds the University accountable for the failure of those in power to protect children and insists that all areas of the University community are held to the same high standards of honesty and integrity.

The NCAA also mandates that Penn State become a national leader to help victims of child sexual assault and to promote awareness across our nation. Specifically, the University will pay $12 million a year for the next five years into a special endowment created to fund programs for the detection, prevention and treatment of child abuse. This total of $60 million can never reduce the pain suffered by victims, but will help provide them hope and healing.

The NCAA penalty will also affect the football program. There is a four-year ban on all post-season games, including bowl games and the Big Ten Championship game, and a future reduction in the number of football scholarships that can be granted. We are grateful that the current student athletes are not prevented from participation because of the failures of leadership that occurred. Additionally the NCAA has vacated all wins of Penn State football from 1998-2011.

We also welcome the Athletics Integrity Agreement and the third-party monitor, who will be drilling into compliance and culture issues in intercollegiate athletics, in conjunction with the recommendations of the Freeh Report. Lastly a probationary period of five years will be imposed.

It is important to know we are entering a new chapter at Penn State and making necessary changes. We must create a culture in which people are not afraid to speak up, management is not compartmentalized, all are expected to demonstrate the highest ethical standards, and the operating philosophy is open, collegial, and collaborative.

Since receiving Judge Freeh’s preliminary recommendations in January, the University has instituted several reforms. Today we accept the terms of the consent decree imposed by the NCAA. As Penn State embarks upon change and progress, this announcement helps to further define our course. It is with this compass that we will strive for a better tomorrow.

Penn State will move forward with a renewed sense of commitment to excellence and integrity in all aspects of our University. We continue to recognize the important role that intercollegiate athletics provides for our student athletes and the wider University community as we strive to appropriately balance academic and athletic accomplishments. Penn State will continue to be a world-class educational institution of which our students, faculty, staff and alumni can be justifiably proud.

 

[Idiot Boxer]

Let me try to articulate this another way.

1. It's absurd to try to punish the culture of PSU because that culture is no different than it is at virtually every school with a big time football program. You can't fix it by singling out one school.

2. Any competitive advantage gained by PSU on the actual football field was minimal. Had the right thing been done at the right time, the damage to the school and football program would have been small. Because there would have been damage...I can see the argument that the NCAA could and should levy punishment...but the crimes were individual ones not directly related to football. Punishments for violations like this should be in line with the real "advantage" (or, in this case, averted damage) gained, not overly punitive.

3. The crimes in this case really were limited to a handful of people...and are being handled by the courts. People who had nothing to do with it, and more importantly, gained nothing from the cover up, are being punished. That's not justice. Cowherd said this better than me.

As a final point....nobody defending PSU is defending what happened, or the individuals concerned. I am in no way trying to minimize the harm. I'm a victim of this kind of abuse myself, and there's no way in heck I would want to punish the rest of my family for what my uncle did to me or my siblings.

If you only punish the "actual cost" after the fact, then there is no incentive for a school to do the right thing from the beginning. In other words, if it is determined that PSU would have suffered X amount had they not covered this up, it makes no sense to only punish them X now after the fact. The punishment NEEDS to be overly punitive to hopefully avoid cover-ups in the future.

The people who did this are being punished by the courts and legal system far worse than anything the NCAA can do. These punishments aren't affecting the people they should most affect.Do we really need the NCAA to tell schools not to cover up a crime? REALLY????? I mean...it's one thing to tell schools not to cover up NCAA recruiting violations, but we don't need the NCAA to tell schools this. WE ALL KNOW THIS. WE ALL GET THIS. There was nothing proven or gained by today's punishments. Schools didn't need this to know what these individuals at PSU did was wrong. The NCAA punishes things that most of society couldn't care less about, and has no laws about. Society punishes this, our courts punish this. The NCAA is not punishing the guilty here.

I am not uncompassionate to your point of view, however Penn State has agreed to these sanctions and whether they were 'bullied' into accepting them or not, I think it is time you did as well.Sure, there will still be some morons out there hoping to tarnish the entire university and wanting more scorched earth, but it really is time to focus forward...both for those who were hoping for stiffer penalties and those who think any NCAA sanction is unfair.

 

[GeauxTigers]

But the severity of that gut-punch is only as much as those former players, alum, and fans allow it to affect them. It could range from crushing to no impact at all. So any argument that you are punishing them is shallow.

Really? Those wins absolutely meant alot to the former players. And to take those victories away from the former players is absolutely a slap in the face to those guys. One player broke his neck in one of those games.I am not saying the wins shouldn't have been stripped, as I agree with the NCAA punishment, but to say those victories are "shallow" to former players is ridiculous.

 

[Idiot Boxer]

Can't believe people are saying this is not enough.This is a very significant penalty to the school in terms of money, prestige, and ability to recruit/compete over the next few years. It takes a swipe at JoePa by knocking off the wins - which I am sure was the only reason for vacating the wins back to '98.This punishes the school and the program. The criminal course can punish the individuals.

And to the guy that says "taking away Joe Pa's wins are only for stupid people" doesn't know crap about college football. Some people worship these coaches. Go to Alabama and say something about Bear Bryant and you are liable to get shot.

Bear Bryant also did not let his assistants rape children. Joe Pa is forever tarnished, and taking his wins from him (and his family) is something I am happy the NCAA decided to do. Anyone who thinks Penn State should not have been punished in this situation is an idiot. Simple as that.

For the record, we have no idea whether or not Bear Bryant let his assistants rape children.

 

[CrossEyed]

Just saw this on twitter. Something to keep in mind.

Larger financial penalty for Penn St still looming. US Education Dept has power to strip all of its federal funding to PSU, after its probe

 

[BigJohn]

As a final point....nobody defending PSU is defending what happened, or the individuals concerned. I am in no way trying to minimize the harm. I'm a victim of this kind of abuse myself, and there's no way in heck I would want to punish the rest of my family for what my uncle did to me or my siblings.

First off, I'm sorry to hear about your prior abuse. I do think you can offer a different perspective to this.Question. If your parents had discovered what he was doing to you, but decided it wasn't in the family's best interest to turn him in, wuold that change your opinion?

 

[jwb]

Do we really need the NCAA to tell schools not to cover up a crime? REALLY?????

Yes, apparently, we do.They did cover it up, so the penalty was partially made retroactive. And it hit them where it hurt the most. Good.

 

[GeauxTigers]

If my kid shot someone, and got away with for 15 years and continued to shoot people...all while I knew about it. Yes, I would be OK with going to jail too. In fact, I am pretty sure I would recieve a pretty stiff punishment from the courts in that situation.

But the players didn't know about it. JoPa did and he is getting what he deserves, as is everybody else who is covering up the situation.

 

[jwb]

As a final point....nobody defending PSU is defending what happened, or the individuals concerned. I am in no way trying to minimize the harm. I'm a victim of this kind of abuse myself, and there's no way in heck I would want to punish the rest of my family for what my uncle did to me or my siblings.

First off, I'm sorry to hear about your prior abuse. I do think you can offer a different perspective to this.Question. If your parents had discovered what he was doing to you, but decided it wasn't in the family's best interest to turn him in, wuold that change your opinion?

This is a great point, and puts it into a very clear perspective.

 

[E-Z Glider]

Let me try to articulate this another way.

1. It's absurd to try to punish the culture of PSU because that culture is no different than it is at virtually every school with a big time football program. You can't fix it by singling out one school.

2. Any competitive advantage gained by PSU on the actual football field was minimal. Had the right thing been done at the right time, the damage to the school and football program would have been small. Because there would have been damage...I can see the argument that the NCAA could and should levy punishment...but the crimes were individual ones not directly related to football. Punishments for violations like this should be in line with the real "advantage" (or, in this case, averted damage) gained, not overly punitive.

3. The crimes in this case really were limited to a handful of people...and are being handled by the courts. People who had nothing to do with it, and more importantly, gained nothing from the cover up, are being punished. That's not justice. Cowherd said this better than me.

As a final point....nobody defending PSU is defending what happened, or the individuals concerned. I am in no way trying to minimize the harm. I'm a victim of this kind of abuse myself, and there's no way in heck I would want to punish the rest of my family for what my uncle did to me or my siblings.

If you only punish the "actual cost" after the fact, then there is no incentive for a school to do the right thing from the beginning. In other words, if it is determined that PSU would have suffered X amount had they not covered this up, it makes no sense to only punish them X now after the fact. The punishment NEEDS to be overly punitive to hopefully avoid cover-ups in the future.

The people who did this are being punished by the courts and legal system far worse than anything the NCAA can do. These punishments aren't affecting the people they should most affect.Do we really need the NCAA to tell schools not to cover up a crime? REALLY????? I mean...it's one thing to tell schools not to cover up NCAA recruiting violations, but we don't need the NCAA to tell schools this. WE ALL KNOW THIS. WE ALL GET THIS. There was nothing proven or gained by today's punishments. Schools didn't need this to know what these individuals at PSU did was wrong. The NCAA punishes things that most of society couldn't care less about, and has no laws about. Society punishes this, our courts punish this. The NCAA is not punishing the guilty here.

I am not uncompassionate to your point of view, however Penn State has agreed to these sanctions and whether they were 'bullied' into accepting them or not, I think it is time you did as well.Sure, there will still be some morons out there hoping to tarnish the entire university and wanting more scorched earth, but it really is time to focus forward...both for those who were hoping for stiffer penalties and those who think any NCAA sanction is unfair.

yep

 

[Guest]

Just saw this on twitter. Something to keep in mind.

Larger financial penalty for Penn St still looming. US Education Dept has power to strip all of its federal funding to PSU, after its probe

Oof. I think the NCAA and Big10 punishments are fine. I just hope the rest aren't piling on to get their piece of the pie.I am also OK with anything the victims get in civil suits.

 

[Arizona Ron]

Outside of no punishment at all, I think this is the least amount of impact to the current players/coaches people are up in arms about "wrongly" being punished. The institution is being punished for their (in)actions, and some of that will have to trickle down to the current team, unfortunately. But at least they still get to play, showcase their skills for the NFL, etc.Why should "We Are..." only go one way?

I doubt many players from PSU will be going to the NFL over the next several years. Recruiting is going to be brutal, they're going to get smoked by average teams and with no bowl games there's very little national player recognition.

 

[Mello]

Since the NCAA is allowing any current players to transfer with no penalty and the schools taking them in to increase their scholarships, I like that the whiners can no longer complain about the innocent getting punished.

The games start in 5 weeks. Also, schools may be banned from approaching Penn St. players on their own. You really think most of the players have a fair opportunity to move schools and compete for a spot on the teams?

 

[Arizona Ron]

Since the NCAA is allowing any current players to transfer with no penalty and the schools taking them in to increase their scholarships, I like that the whiners can no longer complain about the innocent getting punished.

The games start in 5 weeks. Also, schools may be banned from approaching Penn St. players on their own. You really think most of the players have a fair opportunity to move schools and compete for a spot on the teams?

I agree, they'll either be a backup for a while (or never start) or they'll have to drop down a division to start. Major college football programs and locked and ready to go 5 weeks out.

 

[CrossEyed]

Since the NCAA is allowing any current players to transfer with no penalty and the schools taking them in to increase their scholarships, I like that the whiners can no longer complain about the innocent getting punished.

The games start in 5 weeks. Also, schools may be banned from approaching Penn St. players on their own. You really think most of the players have a fair opportunity to move schools and compete for a spot on the teams?

I agree, they'll either be a backup for a while (or never start) or they'll have to drop down a division to start. Major college football programs and locked and ready to go 5 weeks out.

I already posted that I think that's why they are allowing the kids to stay on scholarship at PSU this year even if they choose not to play football.

 

[netnalp]

Since the NCAA is allowing any current players to transfer with no penalty and the schools taking them in to increase their scholarships, I like that the whiners can no longer complain about the innocent getting punished.

The games start in 5 weeks. Also, schools may be banned from approaching Penn St. players on their own. You really think most of the players have a fair opportunity to move schools and compete for a spot on the teams?

I agree, they'll either be a backup for a while (or never start) or they'll have to drop down a division to start. Major college football programs and locked and ready to go 5 weeks out.

I wonder if it's too late for some to become UDFA for the NFL.

 

[SHIZNITTTT]

The money that will be paid to victims, will it come from the endowment or some sort of insurance?

 

[Mello]

Since the NCAA is allowing any current players to transfer with no penalty and the schools taking them in to increase their scholarships, I like that the whiners can no longer complain about the innocent getting punished.

The games start in 5 weeks. Also, schools may be banned from approaching Penn St. players on their own. You really think most of the players have a fair opportunity to move schools and compete for a spot on the teams?

I agree, they'll either be a backup for a while (or never start) or they'll have to drop down a division to start. Major college football programs and locked and ready to go 5 weeks out.

I wonder if it's too late for some to become UDFA for the NFL.

That's impossible. Players have to be eligible for the draft or supplemental draft and not get drafted before they can become UDFAs.

 

[Mile High]

Since the NCAA is allowing any current players to transfer with no penalty and the schools taking them in to increase their scholarships, I like that the whiners can no longer complain about the innocent getting punished.

The games start in 5 weeks. Also, schools may be banned from approaching Penn St. players on their own. You really think most of the players have a fair opportunity to move schools and compete for a spot on the teams?

I agree, they'll either be a backup for a while (or never start) or they'll have to drop down a division to start. Major college football programs and locked and ready to go 5 weeks out.

I wonder if it's too late for some to become UDFA for the NFL.

Pretty sure it is. The NFL just had their supplemental draft.

 

[tri-man 47]

Let me try to articulate this another way.

1. It's absurd to try to punish the culture of PSU because that culture is no different than it is at virtually every school with a big time football program. You can't fix it by singling out one school.

This is precisely why it has to happen this way. This would likely have happened at every other major football program in much the same way.

Penn State has to be hammered so that schools are not tempted to cover this sort of thing up in the future. Whether this is harsh enough to act as that deterrent is obviously debatable.

I agree. In my opinion, the primary intent is to send a message about the college culture. I was going to write that the intent is to change the culture, but that's probably naive.

 

[ATC1]

Let me try to articulate this another way.

1. It's absurd to try to punish the culture of PSU because that culture is no different than it is at virtually every school with a big time football program. You can't fix it by singling out one school.

2. Any competitive advantage gained by PSU on the actual football field was minimal. Had the right thing been done at the right time, the damage to the school and football program would have been small. Because there would have been damage...I can see the argument that the NCAA could and should levy punishment...but the crimes were individual ones not directly related to football. Punishments for violations like this should be in line with the real "advantage" (or, in this case, averted damage) gained, not overly punitive.

3. The crimes in this case really were limited to a handful of people...and are being handled by the courts. People who had nothing to do with it, and more importantly, gained nothing from the cover up, are being punished. That's not justice. Cowherd said this better than me.

As a final point....nobody defending PSU is defending what happened, or the individuals concerned. I am in no way trying to minimize the harm. I'm a victim of this kind of abuse myself, and there's no way in heck I would want to punish the rest of my family for what my uncle did to me or my siblings.

If you only punish the "actual cost" after the fact, then there is no incentive for a school to do the right thing from the beginning. In other words, if it is determined that PSU would have suffered X amount had they not covered this up, it makes no sense to only punish them X now after the fact. The punishment NEEDS to be overly punitive to hopefully avoid cover-ups in the future.

The people who did this are being punished by the courts and legal system far worse than anything the NCAA can do. These punishments aren't affecting the people they should most affect.Do we really need the NCAA to tell schools not to cover up a crime? REALLY????? I mean...it's one thing to tell schools not to cover up NCAA recruiting violations, but we don't need the NCAA to tell schools this. WE ALL KNOW THIS. WE ALL GET THIS. There was nothing proven or gained by today's punishments. Schools didn't need this to know what these individuals at PSU did was wrong. The NCAA punishes things that most of society couldn't care less about, and has no laws about. Society punishes this, our courts punish this. The NCAA is not punishing the guilty here.

This was posted in the other thread, but has yet to be posted here, I think.Apparently one head coach feels the PSU fans and alumni are not being punished enough.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/saban-tax-penn-state-athletics-142458926--ncaaf.html

HOOVER, Ala. (AP) -- Nick Saban said one option to address the Penn State tragedy might be a ticket tax on athletic events and giving the proceeds to child abuse funds.

The Alabama coach said the priority should be the same as in disciplining a player: Try to produce some good from a negative situation.

Longtime Penn State assistant football coach Jerry Sandusky was convicted last month of sexually abusing 10 boys, sometimes on campus.

''This is a very, very criminal situation that probably reflects poorly on a lot of folks,'' Saban told a small group of reporters before speaking at Southeastern Conference media days. ''It's probably too almost raw to really have a feeling that I can express. I think that what we all should probably be thinking a little bit more about is what do we want to be the outcome of this? Something that's a win-win type thing, for kids in the future, the people that are there now, the players that are there now.

''Maybe they ought to tax all the tickets that they sell on athletics and give the proceeds to some child abuse organization. Or something like that, rather than worrying about some punishment that is really going to have no positive affect on anything.''

Stick to not liking the media little Nicky.