Non-horrible Sandusky thread to discuss PSU sanctions (2 Viewers)

[johnnycakes]

After perusing the NYSBA's Rules of Professional Conduct, I can see how a lawyer would want to draw a fine line between what one "shall" do and what one "should" do. For example,

Rule 1.13, Diligence: (a) A lawyer shall act with reasonable diligence and promptness in representing a client.

Fine and dandy. One would expect his/her lawyer to act with reasonable diligence, right? Then go on to read the commentary on this part...

Notwithstanding the foregoing, the lawyer should not use offensive tactics or fail to treat all persons involved in the legal process with courtesy and respect.

So that explains why most lawyers are grade-A buttholes. If the Code of ethics said they SHALL not use offensive tactics or fail to treat persons with courtesty and respect, maybe we'd all live in a better world.

 

[fatness]

The free transfer is enormous

If that hadn't been included I would have had a problem with the sanctions. But is is, and I don't.

 

[AAABatteries]

8) We Are!

Screwed.

 

[Christo]

After perusing the NYSBA's Rules of Professional Conduct, I can see how a lawyer would want to draw a fine line between what one "shall" do and what one "should" do. For example,

Rule 1.13, Diligence: (a) A lawyer shall act with reasonable diligence and promptness in representing a client.

Fine and dandy. One would expect his/her lawyer to act with reasonable diligence, right? Then go on to read the commentary on this part...

Notwithstanding the foregoing, the lawyer should not use offensive tactics or fail to treat all persons involved in the legal process with courtesy and respect.

So that explains why most lawyers are grade-A buttholes. If the Code of ethics said they SHALL not use offensive tactics or fail to treat persons with courtesty and respect, maybe we'd all live in a better world.

I have a feeling you would have been a GREAT attorney.

 

[Mello]

The free transfer is enormous

If that hadn't been included I would have had a problem with the sanctions. But is is, and I don't.

It's completely pointless. It's way too close to the season for players to transfer. If some are able, they'll still be at a huge disadvantage compared to players already there. I don't like the NCAA, but I wouldn't have had as big of a problem with this punishment if it had been announced in February and schools were told they had full rights to recruit any PSU players. That's not the case though.

 

[Politician Spock]

I think it's a real shame that the NCAA and Big 10 are giving Penn State an unprecedented ### pounding.

But I feel compelled to just look the other way and let it happen.

 

[fatness]

I think the fact PSU has already agreed to the sanctions should quiet the "absurd" snarky comments.

I agree. The sanctions are likely ones that PSU's lawyer Gene Marsh negotiated downward from what the NCAA wanted to do.

However Penn State couldn't possibly challenge it and worked with the NCAA on structuring these sanctions. This was more of a mediated settlement than a ruling.

Yep.

 

[GDogg]

The free transfer is enormous

If that hadn't been included I would have had a problem with the sanctions. But is is, and I don't.

It's completely pointless. It's way too close to the season for players to transfer. If some are able, they'll still be at a huge disadvantage compared to players already there. I don't like the NCAA, but I wouldn't have had as big of a problem with this punishment if it had been announced in February and schools were told they had full rights to recruit any PSU players. That's not the case though.

They won't really be at much more of a disadvantage than incoming true Frosh that will play. And, for a lot of those true Frosh, the difference in them redshirting or not is due more to not being physically ready to play than their mental readiness. Outside of freshmen and some sophomores, Penn St. transfers will be ready to play now and will just need to learn the schemes.The bigger issue is the paperwork and administrative stuff that needs to get in order before fall practice.

 

[fatness]

The free transfer is enormous

If that hadn't been included I would have had a problem with the sanctions. But is is, and I don't.

It's completely pointless. It's way too close to the season for players to transfer. If some are able, they'll still be at a huge disadvantage compared to players already there. I don't like the NCAA, but I wouldn't have had as big of a problem with this punishment if it had been announced in February and schools were told they had full rights to recruit any PSU players. That's not the case though.

It doesn't require them to transfer. It just removes penalties for them doing so if they wish. Players can make the best decisions for themselves without sanction. The players are in their late teens and early 20's. This isn't the first adversity they'll hit in life and it won't be the last. It's not up to the NCAA to protect them like precious snowflakes.

 

[HughHoney]

I think it's a real shame that the NCAA and Big 10 are giving Penn State an unprecedented ### pounding.But I feel compelled to just look the other way and let it happen.

Or put a cover over your head. GET IT!!!!!?! COVER IT UP!!?!?!?!?!?

 

[ConstruxBoy]

8) We Are!

Screwed.

Married with two young kids, so no, I'm really not.

 

[Short Corner]

The free transfer is enormous

If that hadn't been included I would have had a problem with the sanctions. But is is, and I don't.

It's completely pointless. It's way too close to the season for players to transfer. If some are able, they'll still be at a huge disadvantage compared to players already there. I don't like the NCAA, but I wouldn't have had as big of a problem with this punishment if it had been announced in February and schools were told they had full rights to recruit any PSU players. That's not the case though.

They won't really be at much more of a disadvantage than incoming true Frosh that will play. And, for a lot of those true Frosh, the difference in them redshirting or not is due more to not being physically ready to play than their mental readiness. Outside of freshmen and some sophomores, Penn St. transfers will be ready to play now and will just need to learn the schemes.The bigger issue is the paperwork and administrative stuff that needs to get in order before fall practice.

I would hope that the NCAA would give them an extra redshirt year should they decide to sit out this year and transfer.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

I think its being asked whether other schools are allowed to actively recruit current psu athletes, or whether the student must first make his intent to leave known.

Also, can anybody answer my timing question regarding when psu scholarship reduction begins?

 

[GDogg]

I think its being asked whether other schools are allowed to actively recruit current psu athletes, or whether the student must first make his intent to leave known. Also, can anybody answer my timing question regarding when psu scholarship reduction begins?

Schools have to contact Penn St. and let them know they are interested in speaking with some of them. From Bruce Feldman: Compliance staffers promptly forwarded an email, that CBS has obtained, to the Penn State coaches explaining the ground rules: "... Permission-to-contact rules will be suspended. Penn State cannot restrict in any way a student-athlete from pursuing a possible transfer. Student-athletes must simply inform Penn State of their interest in discussing transfer options with other schools. Interested schools also must inform Penn State of their intention to open discussions with the student-athlete." It looks like schools are simply going to fax over a list of names to Penn St. about who they'd like to speak with.CBS is reporting that the scholarship reductions begin in 2013. I'm pretty sure the 65 cap begins that season, too, otherwise Penn St. would have to "cut" a bunch of players for the upcoming season with practice beginning next week.

 

[Christo]

The free transfer is enormous

If that hadn't been included I would have had a problem with the sanctions. But is is, and I don't.

It's completely pointless. It's way too close to the season for players to transfer. If some are able, they'll still be at a huge disadvantage compared to players already there. I don't like the NCAA, but I wouldn't have had as big of a problem with this punishment if it had been announced in February and schools were told they had full rights to recruit any PSU players. That's not the case though.

Fall practice hasn't started yet. I bet there are more than a few head coaches out there who are worried about filling a spot with an untested RS freshman who would give their left nut for a player with a year or two game experience. And coaches who coveted a HS player who signed with PSU this year and would love to give up a 2013 scholarship for him.

 

[CrossEyed]

The free transfer is enormous

If that hadn't been included I would have had a problem with the sanctions. But is is, and I don't.

It's completely pointless. It's way too close to the season for players to transfer. If some are able, they'll still be at a huge disadvantage compared to players already there. I don't like the NCAA, but I wouldn't have had as big of a problem with this punishment if it had been announced in February and schools were told they had full rights to recruit any PSU players. That's not the case though.

Players can sit out this season, maintain their scholarship (free year of school) and then transfer without losing any eligibility.

 

[Mello]

The free transfer is enormous

If that hadn't been included I would have had a problem with the sanctions. But is is, and I don't.

It's completely pointless. It's way too close to the season for players to transfer. If some are able, they'll still be at a huge disadvantage compared to players already there. I don't like the NCAA, but I wouldn't have had as big of a problem with this punishment if it had been announced in February and schools were told they had full rights to recruit any PSU players. That's not the case though.

Players can sit out this season, maintain their scholarship (free year of school) and then transfer without losing any eligibility.

Because we all know coaches love players that take a season off.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

Magary kind of hits the nail on the head here in his Deadspin editorial:

Blowing up Penn State gives perfect cover for every other big football school that is now, to use NCAA president Mark Emmert's phrase, "too big to fail," which describes all of them, and which describes the NCAA, too, while we're at it. It creates the illusion that everything is on the up-and-up again, and that other schools will see Penn State and totally get it now (they won't). In its own stupid way, it's the perfect end point for the Penn State scandal: rotten institution punishes institutional rot.The next great college sports scandal isn't gonna be at Penn State. It'll be at some other ####### school where the head coach still has too much power and the football program still makes too much money. There's no "stark wake-up call." The system is still ####ed, and nothing the NCAA did today will do anything to change that. It only serves to extend the ####ed-upness a touch longer. Among the many sick ironies of the Penn State saga is the fact that it was horrible enough to be considered by everyone a terrific anomaly. It wasn't. Sandusky's crime was, but the scandal that ensued was about concentrated power and institutional capture and all the ####ty things enabled by the durable belief that the goals of big-time sports and higher education are at all reconcilable.

 

[fatness]

Am I the only one that thinks the punishment was fair?

no

no

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

I think its being asked whether other schools are allowed to actively recruit current psu athletes, or whether the student must first make his intent to leave known. Also, can anybody answer my timing question regarding when psu scholarship reduction begins?

Schools have to contact Penn St. and let them know they are interested in speaking with some of them. From Bruce Feldman: Compliance staffers promptly forwarded an email, that CBS has obtained, to the Penn State coaches explaining the ground rules: "... Permission-to-contact rules will be suspended. Penn State cannot restrict in any way a student-athlete from pursuing a possible transfer. Student-athletes must simply inform Penn State of their interest in discussing transfer options with other schools. Interested schools also must inform Penn State of their intention to open discussions with the student-athlete." It looks like schools are simply going to fax over a list of names to Penn St. about who they'd like to speak with.CBS is reporting that the scholarship reductions begin in 2013. I'm pretty sure the 65 cap begins that season, too, otherwise Penn St. would have to "cut" a bunch of players for the upcoming season with practice beginning next week.

So the first year of bowl eligibility will still have scholarship reductions. I guess that goes with the 5 year probationary period.And it is basically open recruiting.

 

[Mello]

The free transfer is enormous

If that hadn't been included I would have had a problem with the sanctions. But is is, and I don't.

It's completely pointless. It's way too close to the season for players to transfer. If some are able, they'll still be at a huge disadvantage compared to players already there. I don't like the NCAA, but I wouldn't have had as big of a problem with this punishment if it had been announced in February and schools were told they had full rights to recruit any PSU players. That's not the case though.

It doesn't require them to transfer. It just removes penalties for them doing so if they wish. Players can make the best decisions for themselves without sanction. The players are in their late teens and early 20's. This isn't the first adversity they'll hit in life and it won't be the last. It's not up to the NCAA to protect them like precious snowflakes.

Good to know you don't give a damn about them. I do. I think college players already get a very raw deal without having to deal with PR stunts like this.

 

[Christo]

Magary kind of hits the nail on the head here in his Deadspin editorial:

Blowing up Penn State gives perfect cover for every other big football school that is now, to use NCAA president Mark Emmert's phrase, "too big to fail," which describes all of them, and which describes the NCAA, too, while we're at it. It creates the illusion that everything is on the up-and-up again, and that other schools will see Penn State and totally get it now (they won't). In its own stupid way, it's the perfect end point for the Penn State scandal: rotten institution punishes institutional rot.The next great college sports scandal isn't gonna be at Penn State. It'll be at some other ####### school where the head coach still has too much power and the football program still makes too much money. There's no "stark wake-up call." The system is still ####ed, and nothing the NCAA did today will do anything to change that. It only serves to extend the ####ed-upness a touch longer. Among the many sick ironies of the Penn State saga is the fact that it was horrible enough to be considered by everyone a terrific anomaly. It wasn't. Sandusky's crime was, but the scandal that ensued was about concentrated power and institutional capture and all the ####ty things enabled by the durable belief that the goals of big-time sports and higher education are at all reconcilable.

 

[fatness]

This was too huge of a scandal for the NCAA to act just on past precedent. They couldn't let PSU get off because the NCAA hadn't put in rules against this kind of stuff. No one would have predicted something like this could happen.

If the NCAA hadn't acted, how would that mean that PSU "got off?" They canned their President and AD -- both may be in prison this time next year -- and the university is facing tens of millions of dollars in civil liability. Reading these threads, it's as if people aren't even aware of the existence of the courts.

The only person from Penn State who's been convicted and is in jail is Jerry Sandusky. A couple others are charged. Maybe they'll be found not guilty, or guilty. Maybe they'll serve some time. At some time in the future. Maybe not.Acting like the courts have already resolved and repaired all this is just sticking your head in the sand.

 

[Christo]

This was too huge of a scandal for the NCAA to act just on past precedent. They couldn't let PSU get off because the NCAA hadn't put in rules against this kind of stuff. No one would have predicted something like this could happen.

If the NCAA hadn't acted, how would that mean that PSU "got off?" They canned their President and AD -- both may be in prison this time next year -- and the university is facing tens of millions of dollars in civil liability. Reading these threads, it's as if people aren't even aware of the existence of the courts.

The only person from Penn State who's been convicted and is in jail is Jerry Sandusky. A couple others are charged. Maybe they'll be found not guilty, or guilty. Maybe they'll serve some time. At some time in the future. Maybe not.Acting like the courts have already resolved and repaired all this is just sticking your head in the sand.

Nice strawman

 

[GDogg]

The free transfer is enormous

If that hadn't been included I would have had a problem with the sanctions. But is is, and I don't.

It's completely pointless. It's way too close to the season for players to transfer. If some are able, they'll still be at a huge disadvantage compared to players already there. I don't like the NCAA, but I wouldn't have had as big of a problem with this punishment if it had been announced in February and schools were told they had full rights to recruit any PSU players. That's not the case though.

It doesn't require them to transfer. It just removes penalties for them doing so if they wish. Players can make the best decisions for themselves without sanction. The players are in their late teens and early 20's. This isn't the first adversity they'll hit in life and it won't be the last. It's not up to the NCAA to protect them like precious snowflakes.

Good to know you don't give a damn about them. I do. I think college players already get a very raw deal without having to deal with PR stunts like this.

So is the NCAA just never supposed to sanction a school for any wrongdoing because it will have an adverse affect on a college player's playing career at the sanctioned school?I feel badly for the players. They had nothing to do with any of this. But, the alternative is simply letting schools do whatever they want with little to no repercussions. The transfer rules for Penn St.'s players softens the blow as much as they can. They are giving the players a choice. Stay and play for Penn St. and probably get your butts kicked week in and week out or transfer to any school that also wants you without any eligibility issues. It's not ideal for the players, but it's the best they could hope for.

 

[fatness]

Am I the only one that thinks the punishment was fair?

I think they nailed it personally. Very severe and makes a strong statement to anyone from PSU who was hoping this would just go away. They managed to do that while going out of their way to limit the damage done to current players at PSU. They also leave the football program alive so they still have a path forward and can remain a key part of the community right away.A+ from me.

Actually, I think they jumped the gun. There's so much more that went on there. Obviously, they will not find anything on par with the Sandusky cover-up, but there's certainly other stuff that happened under the careful watch of The Great Enabler. If the NCAA delves into this more, these sanction would seem like a joke. JoePa had people fired so he could keep discipline under his control. Just imagine what kind of crap went on in terms of players getting grades fixed, payments handed out to players, recruiting violations. Those are the kind of things that aren't grey areas, in terms of what power the NCAA has, and would shut lots of people up. Instead, the NCAA exhibited the fact that they are a spineless entity and buckled under the public and media pressure of doing something ASAP.

I believe the NCAA reserved the right to keep investigating Penn State, and that that is part of the consent agreement.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

This was too huge of a scandal for the NCAA to act just on past precedent. They couldn't let PSU get off because the NCAA hadn't put in rules against this kind of stuff. No one would have predicted something like this could happen.

If the NCAA hadn't acted, how would that mean that PSU "got off?" They canned their President and AD -- both may be in prison this time next year -- and the university is facing tens of millions of dollars in civil liability. Reading these threads, it's as if people aren't even aware of the existence of the courts.

The only person from Penn State who's been convicted and is in jail is Jerry Sandusky. A couple others are charged. Maybe they'll be found not guilty, or guilty. Maybe they'll serve some time. At some time in the future. Maybe not.Acting like the courts have already resolved and repaired all this is just sticking your head in the sand.

God forbid there is due process.

 

[CrossEyed]

The free transfer is enormous

If that hadn't been included I would have had a problem with the sanctions. But is is, and I don't.

It's completely pointless. It's way too close to the season for players to transfer. If some are able, they'll still be at a huge disadvantage compared to players already there. I don't like the NCAA, but I wouldn't have had as big of a problem with this punishment if it had been announced in February and schools were told they had full rights to recruit any PSU players. That's not the case though.

It doesn't require them to transfer. It just removes penalties for them doing so if they wish. Players can make the best decisions for themselves without sanction. The players are in their late teens and early 20's. This isn't the first adversity they'll hit in life and it won't be the last. It's not up to the NCAA to protect them like precious snowflakes.

Good to know you don't give a damn about them. I do. I think college players already get a very raw deal without having to deal with PR stunts like this.

Yeah, those poor kids who are getting a free education at a top academic institution sure get a raw deal.

 

[GDogg]

This was too huge of a scandal for the NCAA to act just on past precedent. They couldn't let PSU get off because the NCAA hadn't put in rules against this kind of stuff. No one would have predicted something like this could happen.

If the NCAA hadn't acted, how would that mean that PSU "got off?" They canned their President and AD -- both may be in prison this time next year -- and the university is facing tens of millions of dollars in civil liability. Reading these threads, it's as if people aren't even aware of the existence of the courts.

The only person from Penn State who's been convicted and is in jail is Jerry Sandusky. A couple others are charged. Maybe they'll be found not guilty, or guilty. Maybe they'll serve some time. At some time in the future. Maybe not.Acting like the courts have already resolved and repaired all this is just sticking your head in the sand.

God forbid there is due process.

The NCAA has no obligation to provide due process.

 

[AAABatteries]

8) We Are!

Screwed.

Married with two young kids, so no, I'm really not.

- you said 'We' and I'm talking about PSU football

 

[CrossEyed]

Magary kind of hits the nail on the head here in his Deadspin editorial:

Blowing up Penn State gives perfect cover for every other big football school that is now, to use NCAA president Mark Emmert's phrase, "too big to fail," which describes all of them, and which describes the NCAA, too, while we're at it. It creates the illusion that everything is on the up-and-up again, and that other schools will see Penn State and totally get it now (they won't). In its own stupid way, it's the perfect end point for the Penn State scandal: rotten institution punishes institutional rot.The next great college sports scandal isn't gonna be at Penn State. It'll be at some other ####### school where the head coach still has too much power and the football program still makes too much money. There's no "stark wake-up call." The system is still ####ed, and nothing the NCAA did today will do anything to change that. It only serves to extend the ####ed-upness a touch longer. Among the many sick ironies of the Penn State saga is the fact that it was horrible enough to be considered by everyone a terrific anomaly. It wasn't. Sandusky's crime was, but the scandal that ensued was about concentrated power and institutional capture and all the ####ty things enabled by the durable belief that the goals of big-time sports and higher education are at all reconcilable.

And how would not blowing it up have been better?

 

[Mello]

The free transfer is enormous

If that hadn't been included I would have had a problem with the sanctions. But is is, and I don't.

It's completely pointless. It's way too close to the season for players to transfer. If some are able, they'll still be at a huge disadvantage compared to players already there. I don't like the NCAA, but I wouldn't have had as big of a problem with this punishment if it had been announced in February and schools were told they had full rights to recruit any PSU players. That's not the case though.

Fall practice hasn't started yet. I bet their are more than a few head coaches out there who are worried about filling a spot with an untested RS freshman who would give their left nut for a player with a year or two game experience. And coaches who coveted a HS player who signed with PSU this year and would love to give up a 2013 scholarship for him.

I can't find exact dates, but practices start in at least the next two weeks. I'm sure most players have already been given playbooks and plenty of tasks to do on their own. We'll see, but I don't see many players moving in this short of time.

 

[Mello]

The free transfer is enormous

If that hadn't been included I would have had a problem with the sanctions. But is is, and I don't.

It's completely pointless. It's way too close to the season for players to transfer. If some are able, they'll still be at a huge disadvantage compared to players already there. I don't like the NCAA, but I wouldn't have had as big of a problem with this punishment if it had been announced in February and schools were told they had full rights to recruit any PSU players. That's not the case though.

It doesn't require them to transfer. It just removes penalties for them doing so if they wish. Players can make the best decisions for themselves without sanction. The players are in their late teens and early 20's. This isn't the first adversity they'll hit in life and it won't be the last. It's not up to the NCAA to protect them like precious snowflakes.

Good to know you don't give a damn about them. I do. I think college players already get a very raw deal without having to deal with PR stunts like this.

Yeah, those poor kids who are getting a free education at a top academic institution sure get a raw deal.

They earn that and many players deserve much, much more.

 

[Politician Spock]

The free transfer is enormous

If that hadn't been included I would have had a problem with the sanctions. But is is, and I don't.

It's completely pointless. It's way too close to the season for players to transfer. If some are able, they'll still be at a huge disadvantage compared to players already there. I don't like the NCAA, but I wouldn't have had as big of a problem with this punishment if it had been announced in February and schools were told they had full rights to recruit any PSU players. That's not the case though.

It doesn't require them to transfer. It just removes penalties for them doing so if they wish. Players can make the best decisions for themselves without sanction. The players are in their late teens and early 20's. This isn't the first adversity they'll hit in life and it won't be the last. It's not up to the NCAA to protect them like precious snowflakes.

Good to know you don't give a damn about them. I do. I think college players already get a very raw deal without having to deal with PR stunts like this.

Wait... WHAT?!?

 

[Mello]

The free transfer is enormous

If that hadn't been included I would have had a problem with the sanctions. But is is, and I don't.

It's completely pointless. It's way too close to the season for players to transfer. If some are able, they'll still be at a huge disadvantage compared to players already there. I don't like the NCAA, but I wouldn't have had as big of a problem with this punishment if it had been announced in February and schools were told they had full rights to recruit any PSU players. That's not the case though.

It doesn't require them to transfer. It just removes penalties for them doing so if they wish. Players can make the best decisions for themselves without sanction. The players are in their late teens and early 20's. This isn't the first adversity they'll hit in life and it won't be the last. It's not up to the NCAA to protect them like precious snowflakes.

Good to know you don't give a damn about them. I do. I think college players already get a very raw deal without having to deal with PR stunts like this.

So is the NCAA just never supposed to sanction a school for any wrongdoing because it will have an adverse affect on a college player's playing career at the sanctioned school?I feel badly for the players. They had nothing to do with any of this. But, the alternative is simply letting schools do whatever they want with little to no repercussions. The transfer rules for Penn St.'s players softens the blow as much as they can. They are giving the players a choice. Stay and play for Penn St. and probably get your butts kicked week in and week out or transfer to any school that also wants you without any eligibility issues. It's not ideal for the players, but it's the best they could hope for.

How about deferring the punishments that affect players until next season? Also tell schools that as soon as the season is over they are free to recruit any PSU players.

 

[Christo]

This was too huge of a scandal for the NCAA to act just on past precedent. They couldn't let PSU get off because the NCAA hadn't put in rules against this kind of stuff. No one would have predicted something like this could happen.

If the NCAA hadn't acted, how would that mean that PSU "got off?" They canned their President and AD -- both may be in prison this time next year -- and the university is facing tens of millions of dollars in civil liability. Reading these threads, it's as if people aren't even aware of the existence of the courts.

The only person from Penn State who's been convicted and is in jail is Jerry Sandusky. A couple others are charged. Maybe they'll be found not guilty, or guilty. Maybe they'll serve some time. At some time in the future. Maybe not.Acting like the courts have already resolved and repaired all this is just sticking your head in the sand.

God forbid there is due process.

The NCAA has no obligation to provide due process.

It does unless the school bends over like PSU did.

 

[AAABatteries]

The only person from Penn State who's been convicted and is in jail is Jerry Sandusky. A couple others are charged. Maybe they'll be found not guilty, or guilty. Maybe they'll serve some time. At some time in the future. Maybe not.

Acting like the courts have already resolved and repaired all this is just sticking your head in the sand.

Nice strawman

Just curious - if the NCAA came out today and said they were vacating Paterno's wins and did nothing else would you be ok with that? What if Paterno hadn't been fired, hadn't died and was still the PSU head coach - would you be ok with what they did then? I really have no opinion on the penalties so this isn't some attempt at defending one side or the other - I don't really care.

 

[GDogg]

The free transfer is enormous

If that hadn't been included I would have had a problem with the sanctions. But is is, and I don't.

It's completely pointless. It's way too close to the season for players to transfer. If some are able, they'll still be at a huge disadvantage compared to players already there. I don't like the NCAA, but I wouldn't have had as big of a problem with this punishment if it had been announced in February and schools were told they had full rights to recruit any PSU players. That's not the case though.

It doesn't require them to transfer. It just removes penalties for them doing so if they wish. Players can make the best decisions for themselves without sanction. The players are in their late teens and early 20's. This isn't the first adversity they'll hit in life and it won't be the last. It's not up to the NCAA to protect them like precious snowflakes.

Good to know you don't give a damn about them. I do. I think college players already get a very raw deal without having to deal with PR stunts like this.

So is the NCAA just never supposed to sanction a school for any wrongdoing because it will have an adverse affect on a college player's playing career at the sanctioned school?I feel badly for the players. They had nothing to do with any of this. But, the alternative is simply letting schools do whatever they want with little to no repercussions.

The transfer rules for Penn St.'s players softens the blow as much as they can. They are giving the players a choice. Stay and play for Penn St. and probably get your butts kicked week in and week out or transfer to any school that also wants you without any eligibility issues. It's not ideal for the players, but it's the best they could hope for.

How about deferring the punishments that affect players until next season? Also tell schools that, as soon as the season is over they are free to recruit any PSU players.

Don't they all? The players don't have to transfer this season. They can transfer whenever they want. They simply need to have eligibility left.

 

[Enraged Nerfball]

Just saw this on twitter. Something to keep in mind.

Larger financial penalty for Penn St still looming. US Education Dept has power to strip all of its federal funding to PSU, after its probe

So now in addition to taking out our frustrations on the football program, we're going to tear up their academic programs too? This is ludicrous.

Were they a private university, I would think this would be possible, but given their public status, I doubt they take this step. This is still a university with some juice.

Why would you do this if it was a private university? You and others keep insisting that this is about sending a message that football shouldn't be such an out-sized priority. How does stripping funding for academics send that message?Stuff like this just reinforces my opinion that this is about irrational vengence, not justice.

Ivan IMO it's because in this case the two are inseparable. As soon as the administration began covering this up it became more than just Paterno and the football program. The university administration created the conditions for this atrocity to continue. In my mind there's no doubt PSU as an academic institution failed in it's primary mission as educators of young people. Given that a discussion of reducing funding for academics given what happened is not unreasonable. Academia and the education of young people will continue whether PSU continues to operate with no penalties, harsh penalties or even ceases to exist. That's the message I think it sends.

 

[fatness]

The people who did this are being punished by the courts and legal system far worse than anything the NCAA can do.

How about you list all the people who've been punished by the courts and legal system so far? In fact, I'll do it for you:

1. Jerry Sandusky

end list

How about you list all the people who've been punished for the coverup by the courts and legal system so far? I'll do that one for you also:

nobody

 

[Mello]

The free transfer is enormous

If that hadn't been included I would have had a problem with the sanctions. But is is, and I don't.

It's completely pointless. It's way too close to the season for players to transfer. If some are able, they'll still be at a huge disadvantage compared to players already there. I don't like the NCAA, but I wouldn't have had as big of a problem with this punishment if it had been announced in February and schools were told they had full rights to recruit any PSU players. That's not the case though.

It doesn't require them to transfer. It just removes penalties for them doing so if they wish. Players can make the best decisions for themselves without sanction. The players are in their late teens and early 20's. This isn't the first adversity they'll hit in life and it won't be the last. It's not up to the NCAA to protect them like precious snowflakes.

Good to know you don't give a damn about them. I do. I think college players already get a very raw deal without having to deal with PR stunts like this.

So is the NCAA just never supposed to sanction a school for any wrongdoing because it will have an adverse affect on a college player's playing career at the sanctioned school?I feel badly for the players. They had nothing to do with any of this. But, the alternative is simply letting schools do whatever they want with little to no repercussions.

The transfer rules for Penn St.'s players softens the blow as much as they can. They are giving the players a choice. Stay and play for Penn St. and probably get your butts kicked week in and week out or transfer to any school that also wants you without any eligibility issues. It's not ideal for the players, but it's the best they could hope for.

How about deferring the punishments that affect players until next season? Also tell schools that, as soon as the season is over they are free to recruit any PSU players.

Don't they all? The players don't have to transfer this season. They can transfer whenever they want. They simply need to have eligibility left.

No, any player that stays this season has no chance at a bowl game.

 

[Christo]

The only person from Penn State who's been convicted and is in jail is Jerry Sandusky. A couple others are charged. Maybe they'll be found not guilty, or guilty. Maybe they'll serve some time. At some time in the future. Maybe not.

Acting like the courts have already resolved and repaired all this is just sticking your head in the sand.

Nice strawman

Just curious - if the NCAA came out today and said they were vacating Paterno's wins and did nothing else would you be ok with that? What if Paterno hadn't been fired, hadn't died and was still the PSU head coach - would you be ok with what they did then? I really have no opinion on the penalties so this isn't some attempt at defending one side or the other - I don't really care.

What do you mean by okay with that?

 

[gcoast3]

The free transfer is enormous

If that hadn't been included I would have had a problem with the sanctions. But is is, and I don't.

I am glad you are fine with it...you were the last vote they were waiting on.

 

[Mello]

The only person from Penn State who's been convicted and is in jail is Jerry Sandusky. A couple others are charged. Maybe they'll be found not guilty, or guilty. Maybe they'll serve some time. At some time in the future. Maybe not.

Acting like the courts have already resolved and repaired all this is just sticking your head in the sand.

Nice strawman

Just curious - if the NCAA came out today and said they were vacating Paterno's wins and did nothing else would you be ok with that? What if Paterno hadn't been fired, hadn't died and was still the PSU head coach - would you be ok with what they did then? I really have no opinion on the penalties so this isn't some attempt at defending one side or the other - I don't really care.

What do you mean by okay with that?

 

[GDogg]

This was too huge of a scandal for the NCAA to act just on past precedent. They couldn't let PSU get off because the NCAA hadn't put in rules against this kind of stuff. No one would have predicted something like this could happen.

If the NCAA hadn't acted, how would that mean that PSU "got off?" They canned their President and AD -- both may be in prison this time next year -- and the university is facing tens of millions of dollars in civil liability. Reading these threads, it's as if people aren't even aware of the existence of the courts.

The only person from Penn State who's been convicted and is in jail is Jerry Sandusky. A couple others are charged. Maybe they'll be found not guilty, or guilty. Maybe they'll serve some time. At some time in the future. Maybe not.Acting like the courts have already resolved and repaired all this is just sticking your head in the sand.

God forbid there is due process.

The NCAA has no obligation to provide due process.

It does unless the school bends over like PSU did.

Link?No it doesn't. The NCAA is not a governmental actor.

 

[gcoast3]

The people who did this are being punished by the courts and legal system far worse than anything the NCAA can do.

How about you list all the people who've been punished by the courts and legal system so far? In fact, I'll do it for you:

1. Jerry Sandusky

end list

How about you list all the people who've been punished for the coverup by the courts and legal system so far? I'll do that one for you also:

nobody

Save your post and get back to us when Curley & Schultz are prosecuted and maybe more. What axe do you have to grind in this anyway?

 

[Wadsworth]

The only person from Penn State who's been convicted and is in jail is Jerry Sandusky. A couple others are charged. Maybe they'll be found not guilty, or guilty. Maybe they'll serve some time. At some time in the future. Maybe not.

Acting like the courts have already resolved and repaired all this is just sticking your head in the sand.

Nice strawman

Just curious - if the NCAA came out today and said they were vacating Paterno's wins and did nothing else would you be ok with that? What if Paterno hadn't been fired, hadn't died and was still the PSU head coach - would you be ok with what they did then? I really have no opinion on the penalties so this isn't some attempt at defending one side or the other - I don't really care.

What do you mean by okay with that?

Perfect.

 

[Christo]

The free transfer is enormous

If that hadn't been included I would have had a problem with the sanctions. But is is, and I don't.

It's completely pointless. It's way too close to the season for players to transfer. If some are able, they'll still be at a huge disadvantage compared to players already there. I don't like the NCAA, but I wouldn't have had as big of a problem with this punishment if it had been announced in February and schools were told they had full rights to recruit any PSU players. That's not the case though.

It doesn't require them to transfer. It just removes penalties for them doing so if they wish. Players can make the best decisions for themselves without sanction. The players are in their late teens and early 20's. This isn't the first adversity they'll hit in life and it won't be the last. It's not up to the NCAA to protect them like precious snowflakes.

Good to know you don't give a damn about them. I do. I think college players already get a very raw deal without having to deal with PR stunts like this.

So is the NCAA just never supposed to sanction a school for any wrongdoing because it will have an adverse affect on a college player's playing career at the sanctioned school?I feel badly for the players. They had nothing to do with any of this. But, the alternative is simply letting schools do whatever they want with little to no repercussions.

The transfer rules for Penn St.'s players softens the blow as much as they can. They are giving the players a choice. Stay and play for Penn St. and probably get your butts kicked week in and week out or transfer to any school that also wants you without any eligibility issues. It's not ideal for the players, but it's the best they could hope for.

How about deferring the punishments that affect players until next season? Also tell schools that, as soon as the season is over they are free to recruit any PSU players.

Don't they all? The players don't have to transfer this season. They can transfer whenever they want. They simply need to have eligibility left.

Are you sure? I thought the deal was they could transfer now and play immediately. I didn't see where they could wait a season and transfer without having to sit.

 

[GDogg]

The free transfer is enormous

If that hadn't been included I would have had a problem with the sanctions. But is is, and I don't.

It's completely pointless. It's way too close to the season for players to transfer. If some are able, they'll still be at a huge disadvantage compared to players already there. I don't like the NCAA, but I wouldn't have had as big of a problem with this punishment if it had been announced in February and schools were told they had full rights to recruit any PSU players. That's not the case though.

It doesn't require them to transfer. It just removes penalties for them doing so if they wish. Players can make the best decisions for themselves without sanction. The players are in their late teens and early 20's. This isn't the first adversity they'll hit in life and it won't be the last. It's not up to the NCAA to protect them like precious snowflakes.

Good to know you don't give a damn about them. I do. I think college players already get a very raw deal without having to deal with PR stunts like this.

So is the NCAA just never supposed to sanction a school for any wrongdoing because it will have an adverse affect on a college player's playing career at the sanctioned school?I feel badly for the players. They had nothing to do with any of this. But, the alternative is simply letting schools do whatever they want with little to no repercussions.

The transfer rules for Penn St.'s players softens the blow as much as they can. They are giving the players a choice. Stay and play for Penn St. and probably get your butts kicked week in and week out or transfer to any school that also wants you without any eligibility issues. It's not ideal for the players, but it's the best they could hope for.

How about deferring the punishments that affect players until next season? Also tell schools that, as soon as the season is over they are free to recruit any PSU players.

Don't they all? The players don't have to transfer this season. They can transfer whenever they want. They simply need to have eligibility left.

No, any player that stays this season has no chance at a bowl game.

So, they can transfer to another school that does have a chance at a bowl game. Deferring the bowl game punishment would only prolong the sanctions for Penn St. That's not in anyone's best interest.

 

[Christo]

This was too huge of a scandal for the NCAA to act just on past precedent. They couldn't let PSU get off because the NCAA hadn't put in rules against this kind of stuff. No one would have predicted something like this could happen.

If the NCAA hadn't acted, how would that mean that PSU "got off?" They canned their President and AD -- both may be in prison this time next year -- and the university is facing tens of millions of dollars in civil liability. Reading these threads, it's as if people aren't even aware of the existence of the courts.

The only person from Penn State who's been convicted and is in jail is Jerry Sandusky. A couple others are charged. Maybe they'll be found not guilty, or guilty. Maybe they'll serve some time. At some time in the future. Maybe not.Acting like the courts have already resolved and repaired all this is just sticking your head in the sand.

God forbid there is due process.

The NCAA has no obligation to provide due process.

It does unless the school bends over like PSU did.

Link?No it doesn't. The NCAA is not a governmental actor.