Non-horrible Sandusky thread to discuss PSU sanctions (1 Viewer)

[CrossEyed]

can a student transfer mid-season? Let's say a starting RB for a team gets hurt in their conf. championship game. Can that team then recruit Silas Redd to play in their bowl game? In theory there is enough time between the end of the season and bowl season for a player to learn a playbook.

I think I read that once a PSU student participates in PSU football, they cannot transfer in that season.

 

[Fat Nick]

They are not taking away things earned, they are saying they should have never been in the position to achieve those milestones. the Pete Rose analogy is horrible as he was banned for acts committed after his playing career was over. With Reggie Bush, it was deemed that he voided his amture status, making him ineligible, so all of his records were removed. The same is being done with Paterno. They are in essence saying that he should not have been there after covering up the Sandusky scandal so they removed evrything he accomplished from that point forward. I guess you can argue that he didn't cover anything up until 2001.

So where in the NCAA "code of conduct" is it written that Paterno acted improperly here? I'm not saying he DIDN'T...just saying that despite breaking moral/ethical rules, you can't break an NCAA rule that doesn't exist) Where did he violate a competitive rule? Saying he "should not have been coach" is subjective. Accepting ineligible benefits as specifically defined in the NCAA player eligiblity rules is not.

Dartmouth kindly provide this link to the Division 1 Constitution. In the original NCAA letter here. While you may argue that this applies negatively to every single NCAA coach without much argument, Paterno certainly failed to live up to this standard.
Title:19.01.2 - Exemplary Conduct.

Individuals employed by or associated with member institutions for the administration, the conduct or the coaching of intercollegiate athletics are, in the final analysis, teachers of young people. Their responsibility is an affirmative one, and they must do more than avoid improper conduct or questionable acts. Their own moral values must be so certain and positive that those younger and more pliable will be influenced by a fine example. Much more is expected of them than of the less critically placed citizen.

Good find...To take it a step further, did it outline any ramifications or punishments for an above referenced individual who did not "do more than avoid improper conduct or questionable acts"?

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

can a student transfer mid-season? Let's say a starting RB for a team gets hurt in their conf. championship game. Can that team then recruit Silas Redd to play in their bowl game? In theory there is enough time between the end of the season and bowl season for a player to learn a playbook.

I think I read that once a PSU student participates in PSU football, they cannot transfer in that season.

Meaning an actual game, or practice? I feel like the rules are not clear and it seems like the students for the most part do not appreciate it. Lots of tweets yesterday complaining and kids not wanting to even go outside of the football building.

 

[CrossEyed]

can a student transfer mid-season? Let's say a starting RB for a team gets hurt in their conf. championship game. Can that team then recruit Silas Redd to play in their bowl game? In theory there is enough time between the end of the season and bowl season for a player to learn a playbook.

I think I read that once a PSU student participates in PSU football, they cannot transfer in that season.

Meaning an actual game, or practice? I feel like the rules are not clear and it seems like the students for the most part do not appreciate it. Lots of tweets yesterday complaining and kids not wanting to even go outside of the football building.

Yeah, I think the NCAA needs to create a buffer zone around the PSU campus. Anyone caught recruiting in that zone should be fined. Make it so that the kids are the ones that are initiating contact if they want to leave PSU.Just underscores the ridiculous culture of college sports.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

can a student transfer mid-season? Let's say a starting RB for a team gets hurt in their conf. championship game. Can that team then recruit Silas Redd to play in their bowl game? In theory there is enough time between the end of the season and bowl season for a player to learn a playbook.

I think I read that once a PSU student participates in PSU football, they cannot transfer in that season.

Meaning an actual game, or practice? I feel like the rules are not clear and it seems like the students for the most part do not appreciate it. Lots of tweets yesterday complaining and kids not wanting to even go outside of the football building.

Yeah, I think the NCAA needs to create a buffer zone around the PSU campus. Anyone caught recruiting in that zone should be fined. Make it so that the kids are the ones that are initiating contact if they want to leave PSU.Just underscores the ridiculous culture of college sports.

Can't the players just tell the coaches they aren't interested? Walk by them and say thanks but no thanks? Or just get campus police to tow their cars and screw with them. They'll leave pretty quickly.

 

[CrossEyed]

can a student transfer mid-season? Let's say a starting RB for a team gets hurt in their conf. championship game. Can that team then recruit Silas Redd to play in their bowl game? In theory there is enough time between the end of the season and bowl season for a player to learn a playbook.

I think I read that once a PSU student participates in PSU football, they cannot transfer in that season.

Meaning an actual game, or practice? I feel like the rules are not clear and it seems like the students for the most part do not appreciate it. Lots of tweets yesterday complaining and kids not wanting to even go outside of the football building.

Yeah, I think the NCAA needs to create a buffer zone around the PSU campus. Anyone caught recruiting in that zone should be fined. Make it so that the kids are the ones that are initiating contact if they want to leave PSU.Just underscores the ridiculous culture of college sports.

Can't the players just tell the coaches they aren't interested? Walk by them and say thanks but no thanks? Or just get campus police to tow their cars and screw with them. They'll leave pretty quickly.

Can't the celebrities just tell the paparazzi that they don't want their picture taken?

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

can a student transfer mid-season? Let's say a starting RB for a team gets hurt in their conf. championship game. Can that team then recruit Silas Redd to play in their bowl game? In theory there is enough time between the end of the season and bowl season for a player to learn a playbook.

I think I read that once a PSU student participates in PSU football, they cannot transfer in that season.

Meaning an actual game, or practice? I feel like the rules are not clear and it seems like the students for the most part do not appreciate it. Lots of tweets yesterday complaining and kids not wanting to even go outside of the football building.

Yeah, I think the NCAA needs to create a buffer zone around the PSU campus. Anyone caught recruiting in that zone should be fined. Make it so that the kids are the ones that are initiating contact if they want to leave PSU.Just underscores the ridiculous culture of college sports.

Can't the players just tell the coaches they aren't interested? Walk by them and say thanks but no thanks? Or just get campus police to tow their cars and screw with them. They'll leave pretty quickly.

Can't the celebrities just tell the paparazzi that they don't want their picture taken?

The celebrities/paparazzi have an ongoing battle with no end in sight. These "recruiters" will be done within a week tops once they realize the kids aren't going anywhere and summer practice starts.

 

[CrossEyed]

Just read that Silas Redd is meeting with USC right now.

 

[Pick]

I am sick of all the alumns(sp?) talking about the importance of Penn State's reputation and their long history of excellence and blah. That #### isn't important right now and I'm sick of hearing about it and hearing people stand up for JoePa. Eventually, I think there will be some healing of Penn State's and JoePa's reputation. But the time to worry about it isn't now. In fact, I think that is just something you don't worry about because it will happen over time at it's own pace.

/rant

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

They are not taking away things earned, they are saying they should have never been in the position to achieve those milestones. the Pete Rose analogy is horrible as he was banned for acts committed after his playing career was over. With Reggie Bush, it was deemed that he voided his amture status, making him ineligible, so all of his records were removed. The same is being done with Paterno. They are in essence saying that he should not have been there after covering up the Sandusky scandal so they removed evrything he accomplished from that point forward. I guess you can argue that he didn't cover anything up until 2001.

So where in the NCAA "code of conduct" is it written that Paterno acted improperly here? I'm not saying he DIDN'T...just saying that despite breaking moral/ethical rules, you can't break an NCAA rule that doesn't exist) Where did he violate a competitive rule? Saying he "should not have been coach" is subjective. Accepting ineligible benefits as specifically defined in the NCAA player eligiblity rules is not.

Dartmouth kindly provide this link to the Division 1 Constitution. In the original NCAA letter here. While you may argue that this applies negatively to every single NCAA coach without much argument, Paterno certainly failed to live up to this standard.
Title:19.01.2 - Exemplary Conduct.

Individuals employed by or associated with member institutions for the administration, the conduct or the coaching of intercollegiate athletics are, in the final analysis, teachers of young people. Their responsibility is an affirmative one, and they must do more than avoid improper conduct or questionable acts. Their own moral values must be so certain and positive that those younger and more pliable will be influenced by a fine example. Much more is expected of them than of the less critically placed citizen.

Good find...To take it a step further, did it outline any ramifications or punishments for an above referenced individual who did not "do more than avoid improper conduct or questionable acts"?

Without actually looking I'm going to say no. From what I heard the NCAA has historically created sanctions for each case individually. One of the things that the new regime at the NCAA is reportedly wanting to do is create "sentencing guidelines" to create some consistency with the sanctions. But I seriously doubt that there would be guidelines for the above in general, or for anything like this that lasted so long.

 

[Idiot Boxer]

Didn't intend to imply that all college football fans are like this. But unfortunately there are plenty that would probably give an "amen" to what these folks are saying, and that's why I think the culture is unlikely to change. You disagree?

I think there are people out there who take college sports way too seriously. There are also people out there who take pro sports, golf, video games, music, politics etc. way too seriously. I don't see any of these as being incredibly severe social problems.

Agreed, but I think sports, in general, has reached god-like status in our culture. A lot of people's entire lives seem to revolve around it. Personally, I think it's unhealthy. People need to live their own lives, not have their identity wrapped up in a bunch of people they don't even know.

oooooooooooooooooh irony.

 

[johnnycakes]

can a student transfer mid-season? Let's say a starting RB for a team gets hurt in their conf. championship game. Can that team then recruit Silas Redd to play in their bowl game? In theory there is enough time between the end of the season and bowl season for a player to learn a playbook.

I think I read that once a PSU student participates in PSU football, they cannot transfer in that season.

Meaning an actual game, or practice? I feel like the rules are not clear and it seems like the students for the most part do not appreciate it. Lots of tweets yesterday complaining and kids not wanting to even go outside of the football building.

Yeah, I think the NCAA needs to create a buffer zone around the PSU campus. Anyone caught recruiting in that zone should be fined. Make it so that the kids are the ones that are initiating contact if they want to leave PSU.Just underscores the ridiculous culture of college sports.

Can't the players just tell the coaches they aren't interested? Walk by them and say thanks but no thanks? Or just get campus police to tow their cars and screw with them. They'll leave pretty quickly.

Can't the celebrities just tell the paparazzi that they don't want their picture taken?

Sure. Just like Quentin Tarantino did.

 

[Christo]

It seems like the NCAA didn't really think through the recruiting process that is going on now for PSU players. It's a feeding frenzy. How is that good for the culture?

They had to know. It happened with SMU.

 

[Arizona Ron]

Just read that Silas Redd is meeting with USC right now.

Was he one of the guys standing in the group of PSU football team that said they're going to get through this together yesterday?FWIW, I don't think those kids should have come on TV and said that. My guess is they're under extreme pressure from locals/fans/coaches to come out and say they're staying.

 

[Christo]

Didn't intend to imply that all college football fans are like this. But unfortunately there are plenty that would probably give an "amen" to what these folks are saying, and that's why I think the culture is unlikely to change. You disagree?

I think there are people out there who take college sports way too seriously. There are also people out there who take pro sports, golf, video games, music, politics etc. way too seriously. I don't see any of these as being incredibly severe social problems.

Agreed, but I think sports, in general, has reached god-like status in our culture. A lot of people's entire lives seem to revolve around it. Personally, I think it's unhealthy. People need to live their own lives, not have their identity wrapped up in a bunch of people they don't even know.

 

[cheese]

Didn't intend to imply that all college football fans are like this. But unfortunately there are plenty that would probably give an "amen" to what these folks are saying, and that's why I think the culture is unlikely to change. You disagree?

I think there are people out there who take college sports way too seriously. There are also people out there who take pro sports, golf, video games, music, politics etc. way too seriously. I don't see any of these as being incredibly severe social problems.

Agreed, but I think sports, in general, has reached god-like status in our culture. A lot of people's entire lives seem to revolve around it. Personally, I think it's unhealthy. People need to live their own lives, not have their identity wrapped up in a bunch of people they don't even know.

oooooooooooooooooh irony.

FYI, this fishing trip was already attempted a few pages ago.

 

[CrossEyed]

Didn't intend to imply that all college football fans are like this. But unfortunately there are plenty that would probably give an "amen" to what these folks are saying, and that's why I think the culture is unlikely to change. You disagree?

I think there are people out there who take college sports way too seriously. There are also people out there who take pro sports, golf, video games, music, politics etc. way too seriously. I don't see any of these as being incredibly severe social problems.

Agreed, but I think sports, in general, has reached god-like status in our culture. A lot of people's entire lives seem to revolve around it. Personally, I think it's unhealthy. People need to live their own lives, not have their identity wrapped up in a bunch of people they don't even know.

oooooooooooooooooh irony.

FYI, this fishing trip was already attempted a few pages ago.

It gets repeatedly attempted. You'd think they'd figure out that I don't care for that bait.

 

[Christo]

Didn't intend to imply that all college football fans are like this. But unfortunately there are plenty that would probably give an "amen" to what these folks are saying, and that's why I think the culture is unlikely to change. You disagree?

I think there are people out there who take college sports way too seriously. There are also people out there who take pro sports, golf, video games, music, politics etc. way too seriously. I don't see any of these as being incredibly severe social problems.

Agreed, but I think sports, in general, has reached god-like status in our culture. A lot of people's entire lives seem to revolve around it. Personally, I think it's unhealthy. People need to live their own lives, not have their identity wrapped up in a bunch of people they don't even know.

oooooooooooooooooh irony.

FYI, this fishing trip was already attempted a few pages ago.

 

[Idiot Boxer]

Didn't intend to imply that all college football fans are like this. But unfortunately there are plenty that would probably give an "amen" to what these folks are saying, and that's why I think the culture is unlikely to change. You disagree?

I think there are people out there who take college sports way too seriously. There are also people out there who take pro sports, golf, video games, music, politics etc. way too seriously. I don't see any of these as being incredibly severe social problems.

Agreed, but I think sports, in general, has reached god-like status in our culture. A lot of people's entire lives seem to revolve around it. Personally, I think it's unhealthy. People need to live their own lives, not have their identity wrapped up in a bunch of people they don't even know.

oooooooooooooooooh irony.

FYI, this fishing trip was already attempted a few pages ago.

Not fishing. Honestly just noting hypocrisy.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

It seems like the NCAA didn't really think through the recruiting process that is going on now for PSU players. It's a feeding frenzy. How is that good for the culture?

They had to know. It happened with SMU.

But SMU wasn't going to play football that season, so it is a little bit different. The timing was likely different as well. It's just weird to make it total free agency, as when these guys are in HS and actually have no commitments etc. there are limits to number of visits teams can do. I think it can be really overwhelming for them. O'Brien says that literally every player has been contacted or put on a school's list. Some players have been contacted or put on a list by 50 schools. Oh well, Pandora's box is open now.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Just read that Silas Redd is meeting with USC right now.

Was he one of the guys standing in the group of PSU football team that said they're going to get through this together yesterday?FWIW, I don't think those kids should have come on TV and said that. My guess is they're under extreme pressure from locals/fans/coaches to come out and say they're staying.

He was not. The players did that on their own.

 

[culdeus]

It seems like the NCAA didn't really think through the recruiting process that is going on now for PSU players. It's a feeding frenzy. How is that good for the culture?

They had to know. It happened with SMU.

It wasn't quite the same though with SMU. Any kids that were implicated in the payola had different rules to move out. This is much more straightforward. This is fair though. IMO after thinking about it a few days the loss of all those scholarships is over the top. If a kid came to the school in good faith on the thinking that Paterno was a good guy, and the school was honorable deserves the chance to now leave. Punishing the school with further scholarship losses to the extent they are is over the top. I hope eventually they pull those back in a bit. Loss of TV/Bowl type cash is ok IMO. It represents that if you want to preserve your cash cow so much we will strip it from you.

 

[Socrates11]

Just read that Silas Redd is meeting with USC right now.

Was he one of the guys standing in the group of PSU football team that said they're going to get through this together yesterday?FWIW, I don't think those kids should have come on TV and said that. My guess is they're under extreme pressure from locals/fans/coaches to come out and say they're staying.

He was not. The players did that on their own.

On Mike and Mike this morning they said the player that made that happen was the TE, whose father also played at Penn State, so you know he ain't going anywhere and is trying to get as many players to stay as he can.

 

[Christo]

It seems like the NCAA didn't really think through the recruiting process that is going on now for PSU players. It's a feeding frenzy. How is that good for the culture?

They had to know. It happened with SMU.

But SMU wasn't going to play football that season, so it is a little bit different. The timing was likely different as well.

It seems like the NCAA didn't really think through the recruiting process that is going on now for PSU players. It's a feeding frenzy. How is that good for the culture?

They had to know. It happened with SMU.

It wasn't quite the same though with SMU. Any kids that were implicated in the payola had different rules to move out. This is much more straightforward.

Distinction without a difference. The NCAA declared open season on these players. It had to know schools would come running.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

It seems like the NCAA didn't really think through the recruiting process that is going on now for PSU players. It's a feeding frenzy. How is that good for the culture?

They had to know. It happened with SMU.

But SMU wasn't going to play football that season, so it is a little bit different. The timing was likely different as well.

It seems like the NCAA didn't really think through the recruiting process that is going on now for PSU players. It's a feeding frenzy. How is that good for the culture?

They had to know. It happened with SMU.

It wasn't quite the same though with SMU. Any kids that were implicated in the payola had different rules to move out. This is much more straightforward.

Distinction without a difference. The NCAA declared open season on these players. It had to know schools would come running.

Well they should have learned. Or at least made some rules other than open season. When it truly SHOULD be open season it isn't, so how is it OK now?

 

[roadkill1292]

Didn't intend to imply that all college football fans are like this. But unfortunately there are plenty that would probably give an "amen" to what these folks are saying, and that's why I think the culture is unlikely to change. You disagree?

I think there are people out there who take college sports way too seriously. There are also people out there who take pro sports, golf, video games, music, politics etc. way too seriously. I don't see any of these as being incredibly severe social problems.

The fanatical fans are a nuisance to me, often standing in the way of how I want things done. I don't really care if this is a self-centered perspective.

 

[GeauxTigers]

Didn't intend to imply that all college football fans are like this. But unfortunately there are plenty that would probably give an "amen" to what these folks are saying, and that's why I think the culture is unlikely to change. You disagree?

I think there are people out there who take college sports way too seriously. There are also people out there who take pro sports, golf, video games, music, politics etc. way too seriously. I don't see any of these as being incredibly severe social problems.

Agreed, but I think sports, in general, has reached god-like status in our culture. A lot of people's entire lives seem to revolve around it. Personally, I think it's unhealthy. People need to live their own lives, not have their identity wrapped up in a bunch of people they don't even know.

oooooooooooooooooh irony.

Get over yourself crosseye. College football is like a religion in the South. That is how it has been for years and years and that is how it should be IMHO. I love college football more than just about anything in the world.

Give me a freaking break about "changing the culture of college football". There is nothing wrong with the culture. How about changing the culture of Christianity? Huh big boy? I hear the Catholic church priests haven't been on their best behavior.

Shut up about college football. It's not your place to change it. You probably don't know 2 ####s about it. I HATE when people put in their 2 cents from their ivory tower and don't know WTF they are talking about.

What happened at Penn State was horrible and an isolated incident. Those responsible should be punished. The football team got slammed, and I think it should have received what it got.

But college football means alot to alot of people and the culture is fine.

 

[Sheriff66]

This should not be allowed

Total

 

[GeauxTigers]

The fanatical fans are a nuisance to me, often standing in the way of how I want things done. I don't really care if this is a self-centered perspective.

Boo hoo...the fanatical fans are a poor nuisance to good ole ivory tower boy.

 

[GDogg]

This should not be allowed

Total

Why not? The Penn St. football players contacted the Illinois coaching staff.

 

[Fat Nick]

I am sick of all the alumns(sp?) talking about the importance of Penn State's reputation and their long history of excellence and blah. That #### isn't important right now and I'm sick of hearing about it and hearing people stand up for JoePa. Eventually, I think there will be some healing of Penn State's and JoePa's reputation. But the time to worry about it isn't now. In fact, I think that is just something you don't worry about because it will happen over time at it's own pace. /rant

This hit a nerve with me. I'm one of the alums you're "sick of." I'm guessing you're either a BYU fan or a BYU alum. As such, it's part of who you are just like PSU is part of who I am. Why is it somehow inappropriate of me to feel that my school's reputation and history of excellence matters? I think we all get that innocent kids were impacted here. But -I- didn't do that. My professors didn't. My classmates didn't. Penn State football is a big part of what goes on at PSU, but it's not all that goes on. I saved every ticket stub from every PSU game I went to with the hopes of one day getting them framed to hang on the wall...I may or may not do that now. But you know what IS hanging on my wall? My diploma. And regardless of the fate of my ticket stubs, I'm proud of that, and I'll continue to be proud of that and the memories I made while I was at Penn State.I think if you read closely, people stopped making excuses for JoePa around the time of the Freeh report. At least I did. As for worrying about our reputation...I think that runs in parallel with posts like yours that attack "us alums" for standing up for something we hold dear. This IS a defining time for PSU 2012 till the future. This IS the time to worry. This IS the time to show unity towards what we as alums want the future of our school to be. The fact that we care enough to worry, the fact that we care enough to show unity...that's not something I'm ashamed of. That's something I'm proud of. If all the PSU alum just abandoned ship and stopped caring...stopped worrying, THAT would be far more of a blow to my school pride than any of this.If you really want to move forward, move forward in your own way. Let us alum deal with this in our own way...the two aren't mutually exclusive.Again, sorry to lash out, but your message just hit a nerve with me. This whole thing is far more stressful than I think some of you outside of PSU can really know.

 

[Fat Nick]

This should not be allowed

Total

They need to put some guidelines on this. I mean, if the players are specifically asking to be left alone, it's a bit much. I get that poaching can happen, but let the players initiate that or something. How long are coaches able to do this? Right up until kick-off of the 2012 season?

 

[Fat Nick]

This should not be allowed

Total

Why not? The Penn St. football players contacted the Illinois coaching staff.

Where'd you get this from this article? I read "Our players are in our building right now and they don't want to leave the building because there are coaches from other schools in the parking lot waiting to see them,"

 

[Pick]

I think if you read closely, people stopped making excuses for JoePa around the time of the Freeh report. At least I did.

That's just not true. I think it's quite the opposite and that's why it strikes a nerve with me. I keep hearing interviews with alumns and they are doing nothing but making excuses (try listening to Todd Blackledge (sp?) for an example of what a PSU alumn should not be doing. It's entirely possible these guys are in the minority but I don't see any other alumns that feel differently calling them out. I have yet to hear an alumn show anything but grandstanding.

As for worrying about our reputation...I think that runs in parallel with posts like yours that attack "us alums" for standing up for something we hold dear. This IS a defining time for PSU 2012 till the future. This IS the time to worry. This IS the time to show unity towards what we as alums want the future of our school to be. The fact that we care enough to worry, the fact that we care enough to show unity...that's not something I'm ashamed of. That's something I'm proud of. If all the PSU alum just abandoned ship and stopped caring...stopped worrying, THAT would be far more of a blow to my school pride than any of this.

It depends on how you show that unity. In fact I'd say it's too much unity that got you guys in trouble in the first place. Keep in mind when all this came out last year PSU was very defiant from the beginning. And that hasn't changed much even with the facts being presented.

If you really want to move forward, move forward in your own way. Let us alum deal with this in our own way...the two aren't mutually exclusive.

This isn't about me moving forward. I'm just giving an opinion.

Again, sorry to lash out, but your message just hit a nerve with me. This whole thing is far more stressful than I think some of you outside of PSU can really know.

It's fine. I try to think what I'd do if something similar came out about LaVell Edwards, who is revered just as much at BYU.

 

[Pick]

I think we all get that innocent kids were impacted here. But -I- didn't do that. My professors didn't. My classmates didn't.

Who is saying otherwise? Who is saying PSU is full of pedophiles?

 

[GDogg]

This should not be allowed

Total

Why not? The Penn St. football players contacted the Illinois coaching staff.

Where'd you get this from this article? I read "Our players are in our building right now and they don't want to leave the building because there are coaches from other schools in the parking lot waiting to see them,"

I didn't get that from that article. I got it from other news sources. Penn St. players contacted the Illinois coaching staff. That's why they went to the Penn St. campus. Oh, and they did it before Monday.

 

[Fat Nick]

That's just not true. I think it's quite the opposite and that's why it strikes a nerve with me. I keep hearing interviews with alumns and they are doing nothing but making excuses (try listening to Todd Blackledge (sp?) for an example of what a PSU alumn should not be doing. It's entirely possible these guys are in the minority but I don't see any other alumns that feel differently calling them out. I have yet to hear an alumn show anything but grandstanding.

Well if you listen on here, I don't think many of us are making excuses for Joe any more. I know my PSU social network is over the "Saint Joe" phase. I guess it depends on your sources, but when you voice that towards us in here, I think it's directed at the wrong people. The FBG discussions have been heated and heavy, and I think most of us grasp the full situation. A guy sitting outside Beaver Stadium hung over from a night of drinking might not be accurately reflective...neither is a guy who played for Paterno...but point taken.

It depends on how you show that unity. In fact I'd say it's too much unity that got you guys in trouble in the first place. Keep in mind when all this came out last year PSU was very defiant from the beginning. And that hasn't changed much even with the facts being presented.

Alumni unity didn't get anyone into trouble. I think part of what's frustrating is that the actions of Paterno, Curley, Spanier, Schultz, etc. are cast on our campus in it's entirety, and we're being told that somehow unity among those outside of that group is somehow wrong or "what caused this in the first place," and that's just not true. The "unity" or secrecy of that quartet of people WAS a major problem. The power that was held internally to mask Sandusky's actions WAS a problem. But the alumni being unified behind their school to help it move past all of this isn't a problem. Again, a few folks interviewed by the media, to me, don't equal the hundreds of friends I have from PSU who have been actively discussing this. The media is always going to air the one interview that gets a reaction.

It's fine. I try to think what I'd do if something similar came out about LaVell Edwards, who is revered just as much at BYU.

I think you have to think even beyond that. It'd be one thing to have something like this happen to Edwards...but take it a step farther when people start criticizing your school as a whole, your alumni as a whole, your culture as a whole...I can get over the JoePa stuff...I have in fact. But when people tell me that I have to just sit and watch PSU fall apart at levels much deeper than football, that stings. I know you're not implicitly saying that, but that's one of the underlying messages flying around. "Stop complaining. It doesn't matter that much." It does to some of us...We're just a serious minority.

 

[renesauz]

I am sick of all the alumns(sp?) talking about the importance of Penn State's reputation and their long history of excellence and blah. That #### isn't important right now and I'm sick of hearing about it and hearing people stand up for JoePa. Eventually, I think there will be some healing of Penn State's and JoePa's reputation. But the time to worry about it isn't now. In fact, I think that is just something you don't worry about because it will happen over time at it's own pace. /rant

This hit a nerve with me. I'm one of the alums you're "sick of." I'm guessing you're either a BYU fan or a BYU alum. As such, it's part of who you are just like PSU is part of who I am. Why is it somehow inappropriate of me to feel that my school's reputation and history of excellence matters? I think we all get that innocent kids were impacted here. But -I- didn't do that. My professors didn't. My classmates didn't. Penn State football is a big part of what goes on at PSU, but it's not all that goes on. I saved every ticket stub from every PSU game I went to with the hopes of one day getting them framed to hang on the wall...I may or may not do that now. But you know what IS hanging on my wall? My diploma. And regardless of the fate of my ticket stubs, I'm proud of that, and I'll continue to be proud of that and the memories I made while I was at Penn State.I think if you read closely, people stopped making excuses for JoePa around the time of the Freeh report. At least I did. As for worrying about our reputation...I think that runs in parallel with posts like yours that attack "us alums" for standing up for something we hold dear. This IS a defining time for PSU 2012 till the future. This IS the time to worry. This IS the time to show unity towards what we as alums want the future of our school to be. The fact that we care enough to worry, the fact that we care enough to show unity...that's not something I'm ashamed of. That's something I'm proud of. If all the PSU alum just abandoned ship and stopped caring...stopped worrying, THAT would be far more of a blow to my school pride than any of this.If you really want to move forward, move forward in your own way. Let us alum deal with this in our own way...the two aren't mutually exclusive.Again, sorry to lash out, but your message just hit a nerve with me. This whole thing is far more stressful than I think some of you outside of PSU can really know.

 

[roadkill1292]

The fanatical fans are a nuisance to me, often standing in the way of how I want things done. I don't really care if this is a self-centered perspective.

Boo hoo...the fanatical fans are a poor nuisance to good ole ivory tower boy.

We're Number 1!

 

[GeauxTigers]

Alumni unity didn't get anyone into trouble. I think part of what's frustrating is that the actions of Paterno, Curley, Spanier, Schultz, etc. are cast on our campus in it's entirety, and we're being told that somehow unity among those outside of that group is somehow wrong or "what caused this in the first place," and that's just not true. The "unity" or secrecy of that quartet of people WAS a major problem. The power that was held internally to mask Sandusky's actions WAS a problem. But the alumni being unified behind their school to help it move past all of this isn't a problem. Again, a few folks interviewed by the media, to me, don't equal the hundreds of friends I have from PSU who have been actively discussing this. The media is always going to air the one interview that gets a reaction.

Don't listen to all these haters Nick. You didn't do anything wrong, the alumni didn't do anything wrong and most of all the players didn't do anything wrong. keep rooting for Penn State and frame those tickets.

 

[GeauxTigers]

The fanatical fans are a nuisance to me, often standing in the way of how I want things done. I don't really care if this is a self-centered perspective.

Boo hoo...the fanatical fans are a poor nuisance to good ole ivory tower boy.

We're Number 1!

LSU will be number 1 this year!

 

[Christo]

This should not be allowed

Total

They need to put some guidelines on this. I mean, if the players are specifically asking to be left alone, it's a bit much. I get that poaching can happen, but let the players initiate that or something. How long are coaches able to do this? Right up until kick-off of the 2012 season?

I'm assuming it's through the season too because the PSU players are allowed to transfer without penalty up until the beginning of the '13 season.

 

[Pick]

Well if you listen on here, I don't think many of us are making excuses for Joe any more. I know my PSU social network is over the "Saint Joe" phase. I guess it depends on your sources, but when you voice that towards us in here, I think it's directed at the wrong people. The FBG discussions have been heated and heavy, and I think most of us grasp the full situation. A guy sitting outside Beaver Stadium hung over from a night of drinking might not be accurately reflective...neither is a guy who played for Paterno...but point taken.

My sources are limited and I definitely haven't delved into this thread. I'm not saying remorseful PSU fans don't exist, I just haven't seen them yet. I think most PSU fans are probably fine, the stubborn dbags are probalby just the most vocal.

Alumni unity didn't get anyone into trouble. I think part of what's frustrating is that the actions of Paterno, Curley, Spanier, Schultz, etc. are cast on our campus in it's entirety, and we're being told that somehow unity among those outside of that group is somehow wrong or "what caused this in the first place," and that's just not true. The "unity" or secrecy of that quartet of people WAS a major problem. The power that was held internally to mask Sandusky's actions WAS a problem. But the alumni being unified behind their school to help it move past all of this isn't a problem. Again, a few folks interviewed by the media, to me, don't equal the hundreds of friends I have from PSU who have been actively discussing this. The media is always going to air the one interview that gets a reaction.

I agree. Like I said it depends on how you show that unity. I think you can show unity and still condemn. I think you can accept judgement and still show unity. And you should understand that probably using the word "unity" isn't what the rest of the world wants to hear right now. That's kind of my point. Right now anything beyond concern for the victims just rings of righteous pride. Yes be concerned about PSU's future but geez don't move on so quickly from what the only issue should be for now.

I think you have to think even beyond that. It'd be one thing to have something like this happen to Edwards...but take it a step farther when people start criticizing your school as a whole, your alumni as a whole, your culture as a whole...I can get over the JoePa stuff...I have in fact. But when people tell me that I have to just sit and watch PSU fall apart at levels much deeper than football, that stings. I know you're not implicitly saying that, but that's one of the underlying messages flying around. "Stop complaining. It doesn't matter that much." It does to some of us...We're just a serious minority.

Ya but PSU will be fine. It's not going to fall apart. It's gonna suck for awhile as it should but there will come a time when PSU gets back to being PSU. But I agree the vultures are circling and are going to take their shots when they can. There will be jokes and such forever but so what. You think BYU doesn't take it's fair share of criticism and shots? Maybe that's the issue. Maybe PSU just isn't used to doing anything really wrong and therefore not used to criticism. For example, USC has played 25% of their football games on probation I think. That is a culture used to getting ripped on.

 

[Pick]

Alumni unity didn't get anyone into trouble. I think part of what's frustrating is that the actions of Paterno, Curley, Spanier, Schultz, etc. are cast on our campus in it's entirety, and we're being told that somehow unity among those outside of that group is somehow wrong or "what caused this in the first place," and that's just not true. The "unity" or secrecy of that quartet of people WAS a major problem. The power that was held internally to mask Sandusky's actions WAS a problem. But the alumni being unified behind their school to help it move past all of this isn't a problem. Again, a few folks interviewed by the media, to me, don't equal the hundreds of friends I have from PSU who have been actively discussing this. The media is always going to air the one interview that gets a reaction.

Don't listen to all these haters Nick. You didn't do anything wrong, the alumni didn't do anything wrong and most of all the players didn't do anything wrong. keep rooting for Penn State and frame those tickets.

 

[renesauz]

Well if you listen on here, I don't think many of us are making excuses for Joe any more. I know my PSU social network is over the "Saint Joe" phase. I guess it depends on your sources, but when you voice that towards us in here, I think it's directed at the wrong people. The FBG discussions have been heated and heavy, and I think most of us grasp the full situation. A guy sitting outside Beaver Stadium hung over from a night of drinking might not be accurately reflective...neither is a guy who played for Paterno...but point taken.

My sources are limited and I definitely haven't delved into this thread. I'm not saying remorseful PSU fans don't exist, I just haven't seen them yet. I think most PSU fans are probably fine, the stubborn dbags are probalby just the most vocal.

Alumni unity didn't get anyone into trouble. I think part of what's frustrating is that the actions of Paterno, Curley, Spanier, Schultz, etc. are cast on our campus in it's entirety, and we're being told that somehow unity among those outside of that group is somehow wrong or "what caused this in the first place," and that's just not true. The "unity" or secrecy of that quartet of people WAS a major problem. The power that was held internally to mask Sandusky's actions WAS a problem. But the alumni being unified behind their school to help it move past all of this isn't a problem. Again, a few folks interviewed by the media, to me, don't equal the hundreds of friends I have from PSU who have been actively discussing this. The media is always going to air the one interview that gets a reaction.

I agree. Like I said it depends on how you show that unity. I think you can show unity and still condemn. I think you can accept judgement and still show unity. And you should understand that probably using the word "unity" isn't what the rest of the world wants to hear right now. That's kind of my point. Right now anything beyond concern for the victims just rings of righteous pride. Yes be concerned about PSU's future but geez don't move on so quickly from what the only issue should be for now.

I think you have to think even beyond that. It'd be one thing to have something like this happen to Edwards...but take it a step farther when people start criticizing your school as a whole, your alumni as a whole, your culture as a whole...I can get over the JoePa stuff...I have in fact. But when people tell me that I have to just sit and watch PSU fall apart at levels much deeper than football, that stings. I know you're not implicitly saying that, but that's one of the underlying messages flying around. "Stop complaining. It doesn't matter that much." It does to some of us...We're just a serious minority.

Ya but PSU will be fine. It's not going to fall apart. It's gonna suck for awhile as it should but there will come a time when PSU gets back to being PSU. But I agree the vultures are circling and are going to take their shots when they can. There will be jokes and such forever but so what. You think BYU doesn't take it's fair share of criticism and shots? Maybe that's the issue. Maybe PSU just isn't used to doing anything really wrong and therefore not used to criticism. For example, USC has played 25% of their football games on probation I think. That is a culture used to getting ripped on.

Part of the problem is that us PSU fans and alumni refuse to accept responsibility for this. We did NOT sanction or encourage anyone to hide child molestation, and we resent the implication that our culture encouraged this. The culture around many college campuses might sanction recruiting violations, or cheating with grades...NOBODY santions this kind of thing. People want all Penn Staters to pay for a culture that is no different than that at any other campus. And that's simply wrong. We're going to be forced to pay? It's going to draw us together even tighter. If that tightness is what you want to destroy...good luck cause this is the wrong way to do it.

Your average PSU fan feels victimized by all of this. Many are still reeeling and in shock...and you guys want to criticize and demonize them for statements you find inappropriate? You expect contrition? I'm not contrite...I HAVE NOTHING TO FEEL CONTRITE ABOUT! People want everyone who ever loved and respected Paterno to both abandon him and remain silent on their feelings? That isn't reasonable. Paterno was a father figure to hundreds of young men...he improved them, inspired them. Does anyone turn on their father figure whom they love before time and overwhelming evidence can convince them 100% they commited a crime? Do we expect a ten year old to apologize for his father raping women, or even a 20 year old for his father committing fraud? No...usually we go out of our way to make sure they understand they aren't at fault. Do we get mad if they don't beleive their dad is guilty? Never. PAterno earned his hero status, earned his status as an icon. It's a shame he didn't live up to it, but it's too new, too raw to realistically expect everyone who saw him as a hero and icon, as a father figure (ESPECIALLY those who personally knew and saw him this way)to fully accept him as a "fraud".

Personally...I saw Paterno as an icon, and a hero, but I realize most of my heros are humans, and humans can fail, can make mistakes. I think it's a shame that this mistake was so harmful to so many. I hope that after the rage and horror fade a bit people can remember all the good he did in his life. I don't think he was a fraud, just imperfect. He deserves the outrage and the criticism right now though. He deserves the shame. But I don't expect the Paterno family to accept that shame as their own.

Stop expecting former players to turn on Paterno...it's not reasonable, and not necessary. Stop expecting PSU fans and alum to act contrite or apologetic. We did not condone this behavior from Paterno or the others. We are almost as angry at them for their failures as we are at the rest of the world for expecting us to act sorry for actions we could never, would never condone or be a part of. We are every bit as horrified byb Sandusky's actions, every bit as concerned for the victimized kids as you are. Concern for the college and the football program has ABSOLUTELY ZERO to do with the level of concern for those kids. Unlike y'all, we believe that those four or five individuals who knew are 100% responsible, and deeply resent the implication that we are at fault.

We'll get over the sanctions and penalties, but PSU fans are pulling together and will pull together tighter.

 

[Maude]

Penn State football is a big part of what goes on at PSU, but it's not all that goes on. I saved every ticket stub from every PSU game I went to with the hopes of one day getting them framed to hang on the wall... I may or may not do that now. But you know what IS hanging on my wall? My diploma. And regardless of the fate of my ticket stubs, I'm proud of that, and I'll continue to be proud of that and the memories I made while I was at Penn State.

You should still do this. If any/all of your stubs are between '98-'11, that would be worth some serious coin one day. And it's possible some little boys were being sodomized during some of those games.

 

[Maude]

Part of the problem is that us PSU fans and alumni refuse to accept responsibility for this. We did NOT sanction or encourage anyone to hide child molestation, and we resent the implication that our culture encouraged this. The culture around many college campuses might sanction recruiting violations, or cheating with grades...NOBODY santions this kind of thing.

People want all Penn Staters to pay for a culture that is no different than that at any other campus. And that's simply wrong. We're going to be forced to pay? It's going to draw us together even tighter. If that tightness is what you want to destroy...good luck cause this is the wrong way to do it.

Your average PSU fan feels victimized by all of this. Many are still reeeling and in shock...and you guys want to criticize and demonize them for statements you find inappropriate? You expect contrition? I'm not contrite...I HAVE NOTHING TO FEEL CONTRITE ABOUT! People want everyone who ever loved and respected Paterno to both abandon him and remain silent on their feelings? That isn't reasonable. Paterno was a father figure to hundreds of young men...he improved them, inspired them. Does anyone turn on their father figure whom they love before time and overwhelming evidence can convince them 100% they commited a crime?

Stop expecting former players to turn on Paterno...it's not reasonable, and not necessary. Stop expecting PSU fans and alum to act contrite or apologetic. We did not condone this behavior from Paterno or the others. We are almost as angry at them for their failures as we are at the rest of the world for expecting us to act sorry for actions we could never, would never condone or be a part of. We are every bit as horrified byb Sandusky's actions, every bit as concerned for the victimized kids as you are. Concern for the college and the football program has ABSOLUTELY ZERO to do with the level of concern for those kids. Unlike y'all, we believe that those four or five individuals who knew are 100% responsible, and deeply resent the implication that we are at fault.

We'll get over the sanctions and penalties, but PSU fans are pulling together and will pull together tighter.

Lighten up Frances.

 

[Pick]

Part of the problem is that us PSU fans and alumni refuse to accept responsibility for this. We did NOT sanction or encourage anyone to hide child molestation, and we resent the implication that our culture encouraged this. The culture around many college campuses might sanction recruiting violations, or cheating with grades...NOBODY santions this kind of thing.

First, like I said I don't know nor have read of anything saying PSU is full of pedophiles or pedophile supporters. I think that's PSU guy being defensive.Second, could you give an example of a college culture that is ok with recruiting violations and/or cheating?

People want all Penn Staters to pay for a culture that is no different than that at any other campus. And that's simply wrong. We're going to be forced to pay? It's going to draw us together even tighter. If that tightness is what you want to destroy...good luck cause this is the wrong way to do it.

See I don't understand this us against the world mantra. And I think it's what bugs the publice and frankly it probably hurt PSU.

You expect contrition? I'm not contrite...I HAVE NOTHING TO FEEL CONTRITE ABOUT!

I would. I'd feel terrible if the leadership of my college allowed such things to happen. I wouldn't feel like I needed to apologize but I'd definitely feel bad and ashamed. It's not so black and white. You can feel bad about the situation without taking responsiblity.

We are almost as angry at them for their failures as we are at the rest of the world for expecting us to act sorry for actions we could never, would never condone or be a part of.

That's terrible. You are more angry at the reaction of the public than you are about the acts themselves?

We'll get over the sanctions and penalties, but PSU fans are pulling together and will pull together tighter.

See this smacks of just giving the finger to the world. Very misguided emotions at play.

 

[Pick]

Love me some PSU. They do a lot of things right. In fact, they've done so many things right for so long they don't know how to act when they do something wrong. They'll come around.

 

[renesauz]

Part of the problem is that us PSU fans and alumni refuse to accept responsibility for this. We did NOT sanction or encourage anyone to hide child molestation, and we resent the implication that our culture encouraged this. The culture around many college campuses might sanction recruiting violations, or cheating with grades...NOBODY santions this kind of thing.

First, like I said I don't know nor have read of anything saying PSU is full of pedophiles or pedophile supporters. I think that's PSU guy being defensive.Second, could you give an example of a college culture that is ok with recruiting violations and/or cheating?

People want all Penn Staters to pay for a culture that is no different than that at any other campus. And that's simply wrong. We're going to be forced to pay? It's going to draw us together even tighter. If that tightness is what you want to destroy...good luck cause this is the wrong way to do it.

See I don't understand this us against the world mantra. And I think it's what bugs the publice and frankly it probably hurt PSU.

You expect contrition? I'm not contrite...I HAVE NOTHING TO FEEL CONTRITE ABOUT!

I would. I'd feel terrible if the leadership of my college allowed such things to happen. I wouldn't feel like I needed to apologize but I'd definitely feel bad and ashamed. It's not so black and white. You can feel bad about the situation without taking responsiblity.

We are almost as angry at them for their failures as we are at the rest of the world for expecting us to act sorry for actions we could never, would never condone or be a part of.

That's terrible. You are more angry at the reaction of the public than you are about the acts themselves?

We'll get over the sanctions and penalties, but PSU fans are pulling together and will pull together tighter.

See this smacks of just giving the finger to the world. Very misguided emotions at play.

Would you feel more personally angry at a murder of someone you don't know, or at being accused of contributing to said murder?It's been explained that PSU sutdents and alum are partly responsible because of the culture. That we contributed. So yes....some of us take that personally, and have stronger personal feelings about it. But let's not confuse personal feelings with beliefs. I am in no way suggesting that it's a bigger crime or more heinous...it's just more personal. BIG differance that has been consistantly missed in this.

I don't think most people at any college are OK with cheating or recruiting violations...but I would say that a LOT of people, perhaps even most people, at most colleges would look the other way if they saw something minor happening. That a lot of people might even actively participate in them to give their boys an edge as long as they felt confident they wouldn't get caught. The number of people who would look away or cover pedophilia up is extremely small. Less than 1/4 of 1% I would guess. And that figure wouldn't change even if the other 99.75% knew they'd never get caught. That's part of what makes this so unique, and the sanctions so senseless (to me).

Our school didn't do this. Our culture didn't do this. Sandusky did this. His best friend Paterno looked the other way or chose not to believe what he was told. I have no friggin idea why the other two covered this up...but they deserve every minute of jail time they get for it.

We feel terrible for the failures of our leadership, but not responsible. I'm OK with punishing PSU the institution for its leadership failures. I'm not OK with sanctions that punish the fans and alumni as well. Monetary penalties punish the institution. Recruiting restrictions punish everyone else.

For the record though...I'm against these types of penalties period. I thought the USC penalties were stupid and overbearing, out of line with the advantage gained, and punished many for the actions of a few. I thought the NCAA was an overbearing and highly hypocritical organization BEFORE this scandal. I understand not everyone thinks that way. I don't hold any malice or hard feelings towards anyone who thinks the NCAA should punish the program for this if they generally support the way the NCAA punishes for anything else. My malice is reserved for those who feel that the students and alumni of PSU are responsible for this.