Would be considered with Miggy and Trout as the best player in baseball, if he could stay on the field.
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**Official 2014 MLB Regular Season-All over but the shouting (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Eephus
- Start date
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Petco looks beautiful on TV. Any of you go there regularly? I know it can't compare to AT&T as far as fan enthusiasm and atmosphere, but how about strictly as a baseball structure?
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
Say Hey Willie, Happy 83rd birthday!
Smack Tripper
Footballguy
Honda but... Laz Diaz is garbage
rodg12
Footballguy
shadyridr
Footballguy
jinxed
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
Heard talk last night on MLB that Morales might end up with the Brewers after the draft. Would be a nice fit in their lineup. Drew is still not drawing much interest..maybe the Mets. What are they going to get for 1/2 a season? 14.1 for one is looking pretty good right now.
What is puzzling is that 14.1 would have been over a 5 million dollar raise for Drew.
What is puzzling is that 14.1 would have been over a 5 million dollar raise for Drew.
Last edited by a moderator:
rodg12
Footballguy
Would have been over 9 million for Morales. He made $5 million last year. Mind-boggling that he turned it down.
the moops
Footballguy
Yea. I could somewhat see Drew turning it down. Had a good year, won a championship, were a few teams with money who needed a SS, etc.
But Morales? Oof. Even without any draft pick compensation attached to him, I cant even see him getting 10 mill a year. DH/1B types with middling power are not that enticing.
But Morales? Oof. Even without any draft pick compensation attached to him, I cant even see him getting 10 mill a year. DH/1B types with middling power are not that enticing.
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
And I yet again don't get a win from a starter (Hudson) despite an amazing effort. Sigh.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
Mitch Moreland has 93 mph heat in that left arm?
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
Mitch Moreland in to pitch for the Rangers, throws a 93mph heater.
Um, well that might change his career path.
Um, well that might change his career path.
Arsenal of Doom
Footballguy
I believe Moreland had the only 1-2-3 inning of the night for the Rangers.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Is there a more embarrassing thing you can do on a baseball field than give up a game-losing HR to BRIAN ROBERTS???
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
BREAKING NEWS!
Padres are terrible
Padres are terrible
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Cano still leisurely jogs down to 1st base, even on double-play balls. Looked like a replay from yesterday.
He's an embarrassment to the game.
He's an embarrassment to the game.
Eephus
Footballguy
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
BUT HE PLAYS EVERY DAY!
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Smack Tripper
Footballguy
Is Gyorko just terrible? He's reminding me of Danny Espinoza last year... is Juan Franciso worth an add as an alternative?
Good Posting Judge
Footballguy
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Bernie Carbo pinch-hitting.
MAC_32
Footballguy
maybe. And no.I am keeping my eyes open for an alternative but Francisco isn't it.
jamny
Footballguy
Billy Bats
Footballguy
Ben Revere makes Johnny Damon look like Ichiro. Poor little guy threw this with all his might:
http://www.crossingbroad.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Revere2.gif
http://www.crossingbroad.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Revere2.gif
fred_1_15301
Footballguy
I voted for him in the Players Who Stink thread. I assume you agree?Ben Revere makes Johnny Damon look like Ichiro. Poor little guy threw this with all his might:
http://www.crossingbroad.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Revere2.gif
Billy Bats
Footballguy
Considering he's the Phils leadoff hitter with 2 walks in 122 AB, an OBP of .277 with no doubles, takes terrible routes to fly balls and has a wet noodle for an arm? Good call.I voted for him in the Players Who Stink thread. I assume you agree?Ben Revere makes Johnny Damon look like Ichiro. Poor little guy threw this with all his might:
http://www.crossingbroad.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Revere2.gif
pollardsvision
Footballguy
Other than that, he's solid.Considering he's the Phils leadoff hitter with 2 walks in 122 AB, an OBP of .277 with no doubles, takes terrible routes to fly balls and has a wet noodle for an arm? Good call.I voted for him in the Players Who Stink thread. I assume you agree?Ben Revere makes Johnny Damon look like Ichiro. Poor little guy threw this with all his might:
http://www.crossingbroad.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Revere2.gif
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
Victor Martinez is pretty amazing
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/a-sad-farewell-to-victor-martinezs-streak/
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/a-sad-farewell-to-victor-martinezs-streak/
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
i'll give him a little leeway on the offense. he had a terrible April last year, then a good May and a great June and July before getting hurt.Considering he's the Phils leadoff hitter with 2 walks in 122 AB, an OBP of .277 with no doubles, takes terrible routes to fly balls and has a wet noodle for an arm? Good call.I voted for him in the Players Who Stink thread. I assume you agree?Ben Revere makes Johnny Damon look like Ichiro. Poor little guy threw this with all his might:
http://www.crossingbroad.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Revere2.gif
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
Professional hitter if there ever was one.
Career:
As a lefty hitter: 830 OPS
As a righty: 845 OPS
At Home: 839 OPS
On the road: 831 OPS
vs Starters: 833 OPS
vs relievers: 837 OPS
First half: 808 OPS
Second half: 868 OPS
w/RISP: 853 OPS
2 outs w/RISP 818 OPS
w/men on: 868 OPS
Late and close: 880 OPS
Unbelievable consistency.
Michael Brown
Footballguy
Dickie Dunn
Footballguy
Nothing frosts me more about baseball in this day and age than the de-emphasis on whether guys even know how to play defense. Mark Belanger and Rick Burleson would never make it out of A-ball.Other than that, he's solid.Considering he's the Phils leadoff hitter with 2 walks in 122 AB, an OBP of .277 with no doubles, takes terrible routes to fly balls and has a wet noodle for an arm? Good call.I voted for him in the Players Who Stink thread. I assume you agree?Ben Revere makes Johnny Damon look like Ichiro. Poor little guy threw this with all his might:
http://www.crossingbroad.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Revere2.gif
I get particularly sensitive to it because I batted over .400 in HS and could run and throw (RF), but had all the power of Duane Kuiper. Watching OFs throw five-hoppers to home plate drives me nuts.
Eephus
Footballguy
I don't agree with this. There's a wealth of publicly available fielding data to quantify the value of defense. The clubs undoubtedly are also using proprietary analytics to track their own players and the tendencies of opposing hitters. The prevalence of defensive shifts in the modern game is just the most visible part. What we don't see is how the organizational data helps in areas such as contractual decisions and determining position moves for minor leaguers.Nothing frosts me more about baseball in this day and age than the de-emphasis on whether guys even know how to play defense. Mark Belanger and Rick Burleson would never make it out of A-ball.Other than that, he's solid.Considering he's the Phils leadoff hitter with 2 walks in 122 AB, an OBP of .277 with no doubles, takes terrible routes to fly balls and has a wet noodle for an arm? Good call.I voted for him in the Players Who Stink thread. I assume you agree?Ben Revere makes Johnny Damon look like Ichiro. Poor little guy threw this with all his might:
http://www.crossingbroad.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Revere2.gif
I get particularly sensitive to it because I batted over .400 in HS and could run and throw (RF), but had all the power of Duane Kuiper. Watching OFs throw five-hoppers to home plate drives me nuts.
UZR has Revere as a net positive defensive CF. His arm is negative but I think a team can partially overcome that a bit by shifting cutoff men to compensate. There are going to be plays where his lack of arm strength hurts the Phillies but I think there are a lot more plays in a season where his speed allows him to get to a ball and prevent a baserunner or extra base.
BTW, Kuip has one more career HR than Ben Revere.
rodg12
Footballguy
I think defense is being emphasized more now than probably anytime in the history of baseball.I don't agree with this. There's a wealth of publicly available fielding data to quantify the value of defense. The clubs undoubtedly are also using proprietary analytics to track their own players and the tendencies of opposing hitters. The prevalence of defensive shifts in the modern game is just the most visible part. What we don't see is how the organizational data helps in areas such as contractual decisions and determining position moves for minor leaguers.Nothing frosts me more about baseball in this day and age than the de-emphasis on whether guys even know how to play defense. Mark Belanger and Rick Burleson would never make it out of A-ball.Other than that, he's solid.Considering he's the Phils leadoff hitter with 2 walks in 122 AB, an OBP of .277 with no doubles, takes terrible routes to fly balls and has a wet noodle for an arm? Good call.I voted for him in the Players Who Stink thread. I assume you agree?Ben Revere makes Johnny Damon look like Ichiro. Poor little guy threw this with all his might:
http://www.crossingbroad.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Revere2.gif
I get particularly sensitive to it because I batted over .400 in HS and could run and throw (RF), but had all the power of Duane Kuiper. Watching OFs throw five-hoppers to home plate drives me nuts.
UZR has Revere as a net positive defensive CF. His arm is negative but I think a team can partially overcome that a bit by shifting cutoff men to compensate. There are going to be plays where his lack of arm strength hurts the Phillies but I think there are a lot more plays in a season where his speed allows him to get to a ball and prevent a baserunner or extra base.
BTW, Kuip has one more career HR than Ben Revere.
Dickie Dunn
Footballguy
Maybe so, but do you think teams are as likely these days to overlook offensive shortcomings for a brilliant defensive player? Look at Belanger's stats ... he had seasons in which he batted .186, .167 and .165.I think defense is being emphasized more now than probably anytime in the history of baseball.I don't agree with this. There's a wealth of publicly available fielding data to quantify the value of defense. The clubs undoubtedly are also using proprietary analytics to track their own players and the tendencies of opposing hitters. The prevalence of defensive shifts in the modern game is just the most visible part. What we don't see is how the organizational data helps in areas such as contractual decisions and determining position moves for minor leaguers.Nothing frosts me more about baseball in this day and age than the de-emphasis on whether guys even know how to play defense. Mark Belanger and Rick Burleson would never make it out of A-ball.Other than that, he's solid.Considering he's the Phils leadoff hitter with 2 walks in 122 AB, an OBP of .277 with no doubles, takes terrible routes to fly balls and has a wet noodle for an arm? Good call.I voted for him in the Players Who Stink thread. I assume you agree?Ben Revere makes Johnny Damon look like Ichiro. Poor little guy threw this with all his might:
http://www.crossingbroad.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Revere2.gif
I get particularly sensitive to it because I batted over .400 in HS and could run and throw (RF), but had all the power of Duane Kuiper. Watching OFs throw five-hoppers to home plate drives me nuts.
UZR has Revere as a net positive defensive CF. His arm is negative but I think a team can partially overcome that a bit by shifting cutoff men to compensate. There are going to be plays where his lack of arm strength hurts the Phillies but I think there are a lot more plays in a season where his speed allows him to get to a ball and prevent a baserunner or extra base.
BTW, Kuip has one more career HR than Ben Revere.
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
probably, if the value of the defense was greater than the shortcomings on offense causing the player to be a net positive. for the past several years, though, offense has seemingly been a more important or plentiful component of the game, so it probably had a higher value placed on it. Without looking at the numbers, I assume that overall offense was lesser during Belanger's time. So his numbers relative to the league were probably not as bad as they would be now. And do we know how many runs his defense actually saved?Maybe so, but do you think teams are as likely these days to overlook offensive shortcomings for a brilliant defensive player? Look at Belanger's stats ... he had seasons in which he batted .186, .167 and .165.I think defense is being emphasized more now than probably anytime in the history of baseball.I don't agree with this. There's a wealth of publicly available fielding data to quantify the value of defense. The clubs undoubtedly are also using proprietary analytics to track their own players and the tendencies of opposing hitters. The prevalence of defensive shifts in the modern game is just the most visible part. What we don't see is how the organizational data helps in areas such as contractual decisions and determining position moves for minor leaguers.Nothing frosts me more about baseball in this day and age than the de-emphasis on whether guys even know how to play defense. Mark Belanger and Rick Burleson would never make it out of A-ball.Other than that, he's solid.Considering he's the Phils leadoff hitter with 2 walks in 122 AB, an OBP of .277 with no doubles, takes terrible routes to fly balls and has a wet noodle for an arm? Good call.I voted for him in the Players Who Stink thread. I assume you agree?Ben Revere makes Johnny Damon look like Ichiro. Poor little guy threw this with all his might:
http://www.crossingbroad.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Revere2.gif
I get particularly sensitive to it because I batted over .400 in HS and could run and throw (RF), but had all the power of Duane Kuiper. Watching OFs throw five-hoppers to home plate drives me nuts.
UZR has Revere as a net positive defensive CF. His arm is negative but I think a team can partially overcome that a bit by shifting cutoff men to compensate. There are going to be plays where his lack of arm strength hurts the Phillies but I think there are a lot more plays in a season where his speed allows him to get to a ball and prevent a baserunner or extra base.
BTW, Kuip has one more career HR than Ben Revere.
But either way, now if a team measures that the runs a guy can save are greater than loss of runs produced, many GMs would do it.
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
Belanger is number 468 in career WAR, also, so I think that should also show his overall value and a guy with such a WAR would probably be valued today regardless.
Good Posting Judge
Footballguy
The A's regularly start Eric Sogard and Daric Barton. They also traded a top prospect for Craig Gentry.Maybe so, but do you think teams are as likely these days to overlook offensive shortcomings for a brilliant defensive player? Look at Belanger's stats ... he had seasons in which he batted .186, .167 and .165.I think defense is being emphasized more now than probably anytime in the history of baseball.I don't agree with this. There's a wealth of publicly available fielding data to quantify the value of defense. The clubs undoubtedly are also using proprietary analytics to track their own players and the tendencies of opposing hitters. The prevalence of defensive shifts in the modern game is just the most visible part. What we don't see is how the organizational data helps in areas such as contractual decisions and determining position moves for minor leaguers.Nothing frosts me more about baseball in this day and age than the de-emphasis on whether guys even know how to play defense. Mark Belanger and Rick Burleson would never make it out of A-ball.Other than that, he's solid.Considering he's the Phils leadoff hitter with 2 walks in 122 AB, an OBP of .277 with no doubles, takes terrible routes to fly balls and has a wet noodle for an arm? Good call.I voted for him in the Players Who Stink thread. I assume you agree?Ben Revere makes Johnny Damon look like Ichiro. Poor little guy threw this with all his might:
http://www.crossingbroad.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Revere2.gif
I get particularly sensitive to it because I batted over .400 in HS and could run and throw (RF), but had all the power of Duane Kuiper. Watching OFs throw five-hoppers to home plate drives me nuts.
UZR has Revere as a net positive defensive CF. His arm is negative but I think a team can partially overcome that a bit by shifting cutoff men to compensate. There are going to be plays where his lack of arm strength hurts the Phillies but I think there are a lot more plays in a season where his speed allows him to get to a ball and prevent a baserunner or extra base.
BTW, Kuip has one more career HR than Ben Revere.
Eephus
Footballguy
Runs were scarcer in the 1970s so Belanger benefits a little bit from normalization. His career OPS+ was still only 68--it was in the low 70s before his late career decline as a part time player. That's not great but it's nowhere near Mario Mendoza levels of offensive futility (career OPS+ of 41). There are some starting SS today (e.g. Adeiny Hechavarria, Zack Cozart) who hit like Belanger did.
The guy who wrote Belanger's name on the lineup card was Earl Weaver. Weaver was the most tactically astute manager of his day. If you ever read the old Bill James Abstracts, James goes on and on about how smart Weaver was compared to his contemporaries. Weaver watched Belanger day in and day out and recognized the value of his glove. The Orioles won a lot more than they lost.
The guy who wrote Belanger's name on the lineup card was Earl Weaver. Weaver was the most tactically astute manager of his day. If you ever read the old Bill James Abstracts, James goes on and on about how smart Weaver was compared to his contemporaries. Weaver watched Belanger day in and day out and recognized the value of his glove. The Orioles won a lot more than they lost.
pollardsvision
Footballguy
Marte was a couple inches from putting one over the ketchup bottle.
Do players win a free T-bone steak from Waffle House or anything for that?
Do players win a free T-bone steak from Waffle House or anything for that?
