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***Official Donald J. Trump Impeachment (Whistleblower) Thread*** (7 Viewers)

Who exactly are you confident can beat Trump?  Hope you don't think Warren is one of them.  If memory serves you thought Harris could beat Trump.  My guess is that Biden is your guy and is the best of the bad candidates.  Good luck with that.
I know this is for Tim but I'll chime in with a different answer than the one he will give, I suspect. Biden beats Trump. He is unsexy, his mental facilities have already begun to fade but he has the name recognition and the polls show that he is in good shape against Trump. I think Sanders and Warren both lose to Trump. It is too easy for DJT to pin them as Socialists (heck, Bernie will happily be called a Socialist) and public opinion of that label is through the floor. The claim that the markets will tank, the economy will revert to 2008, it is just too easy. And Trump might be right on that point. I don't imagine that Wall Street pines for Warren or Sanders.

Mayor Pete is such a wildcard. He can obviously hold his own in any intellectual way. I think he is tough enough to handle a debate with DJT, too, and he looks the part even though he is so young. But who knows how voters will respond to a gay candidate, and one with so little political experience. In my gut, I worry that Mayor Pete could have a Marco Rubio moment. Not in the way that Marco could not break free of the talking points that he was programmed to repeat, but that Pete could have a singular meltdown or misstep in which Trump says, see, he cannot handle the pressure of being President. I don't think Klobuchar has a fighting chance though I like her. Steyer, Yang, Bloomberg, etc have no real chance. I'm on the Biden train as the lesser of two below average white guys. Plus I want to see him clock Trump which I think he might do if they get in the same room together. 

 
It seems more likely than not that there will not be 4 GOP votes to call up witnesses. There have been a considerable number of Republicans who believe what Trump did was wrong but not impeachable. When the vote to call up witnesses should fail and the vote to remove fails I would support one more vote to censure the President just to get Republicans on record. I have to believe Sen Romney would certainly support that but I assume that too would require 67 votes.

 
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I find it interesting that Trump supporters are heck bent on the corruption of Ukraine and Bidens when all Trump requested was an announcement of a Ukrainian investigation into the Biden junior and Burisma.

 
huthut said:
I feel like Sanders has the greatest chance at beating Trump, due to increased voter turn out of 18-29 year olds and other demographics that are strongly Democratic leaning, but generally don't show up for elections much. I think Biden would have the opposite effect.
Biden would bring more black voters to the polls which is important in the cities of Milwaukee and Detroit

 
msommer said:
Horrible question. Are you implying that he actually knows (of) Tiffany?
All depends on if she’s saying something positive about him.  If so she’s one of the smartest people ever - lots of people are saying this.  If not, well then he doesn’t even know who she is.  

 
From Maggie Haberman:

SCOOP: Bolton book draft, circulated to associates and sent to WH for review process, describes a convo w POTUS where he says he doesn't want to release withheld aid till Ukraine turned over material related to investigations @nytmike and me

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/26/us/politics/trump-bolton-book-ukraine.html
It seems like some facts relevant to the impeachment trial are in dispute. Normally, that would be a reason to call witnesses who could testify regarding such facts.

 
That seems like very large news. That is very bad for the President. 
The fact that Congress has impeached a sitting president, but the Senate won't allow for first-hand witnesses to be called, is mind-blowing.  It is criminal. 

 
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That seems like very large news. That is very bad for the President. 
We've been hearing this every day since he was inaugurated but he keeps winning.

We've been duped for so long with "WE GOT HIM NOW!!" that I'll need to see it to believe it.  So far...nothing.

 
Maybe he would, but I think Sanders brings the young voters which could be the difference maker.  I think Sanders beats Trump, I not sure about Joe.
I'm not so sure a Socialist (leaning on Marxist) can actually win.  That's way too far left for this country and would start us down a scary and deadly road we would never be able to turn back from.

 
We've been hearing this every day since he was inaugurated but he keeps winning.

We've been duped for so long with "WE GOT HIM NOW!!" that I'll need to see it to believe it.  So far...nothing.
You think it will help him with the impeachment? Outside of, "You'll never get him," what do you think of this news?

 
Honestly...what does it matter for Republicans even if Bolton testifies? They wouldn’t vote any differently.
Just like the Democrats did in the House over this whole sham to begin with. Doesn't matter how flimsy this all is, they were voting to impeach regardless.  Just like they said they would the day he was inaugurated.  They were out to get him one way or another.

 
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I'm not so sure a Socialist (leaning on Marxist) can actually win.  That's way too far left for this country and would start us down a scary and deadly road we would never be able to turn back from.
Beats the tar out of the banana republic dictatorship Trump's trying and failing to install. Honestly, I try to help my neighbors anyway without the government's interference. I'm more efficient than they could dream of being.

In other news, half of the registered voters polled, and 53% of independent voters in the same poll, want Trump removed from office. At least according to a Fox News poll released today.

 
It seems like some facts relevant to the impeachment trial are in dispute. Normally, that would be a reason to call witnesses who could testify regarding such facts.
Remind me again why the House can’t hear Bolton’s testimony now. It’s after the fact of delivering the articles of impeachment but at least we’d hear from a direct report who wants to testify.

 
jm192 said:
You're flipping the entire point.

Someone said we should hold Trump accountable but not previous government officials.  The problem is that previous official now wishes to return to the executive branch.  

I've asked it 100 times.  If you truly care about corruption from the President--WHY would you oppose an investigation into the democratic front runner?  Because the Dems insist it's a hoax?  Great.  Shouldn't take long to investigate.  
If Biden is corrupt,  why hasn't the Trump Administration gone to the FBI instead of Ukraine?

 
Really hope they vote down witnesses.  I’m hoping for a fast acquittal.  Definitely rather have everything come out in leaks while he’s running for re-election, along with these spineless senators.

 
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Maybe he would, but I think Sanders brings the young voters which could be the difference maker.  I think Sanders beats Trump, I not sure about Joe.
Most polls say otherwise and I agree. Many former Repu licans like Rick Wilson, Tom Nichols and others are saying Democrats are going to blow this. You can't win over moderates and conservatives in battleground states with a progressive...https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/general_election/

 
Really hope they vote down witnesses.  I’m hoping for a fast acquittal.  Definitely rather have everything come out in leaks while he’s running for re-election, along with these spineless senators.
I want Republican Senators to have every opportunity to do the right thing.  That’s best for our country.

 
Really hope they vote down witnesses.  I’m hoping for a fast acquittal.  Definitely rather have everything come out in leaks while he’s running for re-election, along with these spineless senators.
It may be the best way to purge congress of these people...If hope so anyway...but wont hold my breath.  Because too many still support them and even applaud their current actions.

 
hmmmm....I seem to remember SOMEONE around here saying even if Bolton testified or confirmed everything it would simply be dismissed as him wanting to sell a book....who was that again?

 
Honestly...what does it matter for Republicans even if Bolton testifies? They wouldn’t vote any differently.
Because he's coming out with a book soon where everyone will be able to see the Senators suppressed him because he could vouch for Trump's intentions. 

That would be a very bad look coming out before Nov. elections.

 
Just like the Democrats did in the House over this whole sham to begin with. Doesn't matter how flimsy this all is, they were voting to impeach regardless.  Just like they said they would the day he was inaugurated.  They were out to get him one way or another.
sham? 

 
hmmmm....I seem to remember SOMEONE around here saying even if Bolton testified or confirmed everything it would simply be dismissed as him wanting to sell a book....who was that again?
I hate Bolton, but he has more integrity that everyone in the current administration.

Combined.

 
What if he came out and said nothing happened.  Would you say and believe the same thing?
...President Trump told his national security adviser in August that he wanted to continue freezing $391 million in security assistance to Ukraine until officials there helped with investigations into Democrats including the Bidens, according to an unpublished manuscript by the former adviser, John R. Bolton.

...

Over dozens of pages, Mr. Bolton described how the Ukraine affair unfolded over several months until he departed the White House in September. He described not only the president’s private disparagement of Ukraine but also new details about senior cabinet officials who have publicly tried to sidestep involvement.

For example, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo acknowledged privately that there was no basis to claims by the president’s lawyer Rudolph W. Giuliani that the ambassador to Ukraine was corrupt and believed Mr. Giuliani may have been acting on behalf of other clients, Mr. Bolton wrote.

Mr. Bolton also said that after the president’s July phone call with the president of Ukraine, he raised with Attorney General William P. Barr his concerns about Mr. Giuliani, who was pursuing a shadow Ukraine policy encouraged by the president, and told Mr. Barr that the president had mentioned him on the call. A spokeswoman for Mr. Barr denied that he learned of the call from Mr. Bolton; the Justice Department has said he learned about it only in mid-August.

And the acting White House chief of staff, Mick Mulvaney, was present for at least one phone call where the president and Mr. Giuliani discussed the ambassador, Mr. Bolton wrote. Mr. Mulvaney has told associates he would always step away when the president spoke with his lawyer to protect their attorney-client privilege.

During a previously reported May 23 meeting where top advisers and Senator Ron Johnson, Republican of Wisconsin, briefed him about their trip to Kyiv for the inauguration of President Volodymyr Zelensky, Mr. Trump railed about Ukraine trying to damage him and mentioned a conspiracy theory about a hacked Democratic server, according to Mr. Bolton.

...

Key to Mr. Bolton’s account about Ukraine is an exchange during a meeting in August with the president after Mr. Trump returned from vacation at his golf club in Bedminster, N.J. Mr. Bolton raised the $391 million in congressionally appropriated assistance to Ukraine for its war in the country’s east against Russian-backed separatists. Officials had frozen the aid, and a deadline was looming to begin sending it to Kyiv, Mr. Bolton noted.

He, Mr. Pompeo and Defense Secretary Mark T. Esper had collectively pressed the president about releasing the aid nearly a dozen times in the preceding weeks after lower-level officials who worked on Ukraine issues began complaining about the holdup, Mr. Bolton wrote. Mr. Trump had effectively rebuffed them, airing his longstanding grievances about Ukraine, which mixed legitimate efforts by some Ukrainians to back his Democratic 2016 opponent, Hillary Clinton, with unsupported accusations and outright conspiracy theories about the country, a key American ally.

...

In his August 2019 discussion with Mr. Bolton, the president appeared focused on the theories Mr. Giuliani had shared with him, replying to Mr. Bolton’s question that he preferred sending no assistance to Ukraine until officials had turned over all materials they had about the Russia investigation that related to Mr. Biden and supporters of Mrs. Clinton in Ukraine.

The president often hits at multiple opponents in his harangues, and he frequently lumps together the law enforcement officials who conducted the Russia inquiry with Democrats and other perceived enemies, as he appeared to do in speaking to Mr. Bolton.

Mr. Bolton also described other key moments in the pressure campaign, including Mr. Pompeo’s private acknowledgment to him last spring that Mr. Giuliani’s claims about Ms. Yovanovitch had no basis and that Mr. Giuliani may have wanted her removed because she might have been targeting his clients who had dealings in Ukraine as she sought to fight corruption.

...Mr. Bolton also said he warned White House lawyers that Mr. Giuliani might have been leveraging his work with the president to help his private clients. ...
-NYT

- Well, that may not be a problem.

 
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What if he came out and said nothing happened.  Would you say and believe the same thing?
We already knew how he felt from Fiona Hill and others.  If he came out and lied? Yes, I think many would see through that.

I understand how it’s hard to admit being duped, but everyone paying attention should see this clearly now.

 
I hate Bolton, but he has more integrity that everyone in the current administration.
Whether he has integrity or not, if his telling of events corroborates other evidence we've already seen, the wiggle room in the narrative about what went on would be gone. The wrong doing of extortion would be established, the only place left for the administration and Republican leadership to go is the brazen "he did it but it so what" route. Then we get to see what the electorate of this country is really made of. I'm prepared for yet another disappointment in my hopes for the uprightness of my countrypeople.

 
We already knew how he felt from Fiona Hill and others.  If he came out and lied? Yes, I think many would see through that.

I understand how it’s hard to admit being duped, but everyone paying attention should see this clearly now.
So then why aren't you seeing clearly yet?  ;)

 
Whether he has integrity or not, if his telling of events corroborates other evidence we've already seen, the wiggle room in the narrative about what went on would be gone. The wrong doing of extortion would be established, the only place left for the administration and Republican leadership to go is the brazen "he did it but it so what" route. Then we get to see what the electorate of this country is really made of. I'm prepared for yet another disappointment in my hopes for the uprightness of my countrypeople.
So this is one of those "if you don't vote or think like me you're obviously stupid" things?  I mean, this is the same game that's always played.  You guys are all on board as long as people agree with you .  If not, then they are the devil.

 

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