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*** OFFICIAL *** In-Season Dynasty Trade Thread (1 Viewer)

In a 12 team PPR 1 QB 2 RB 4 WR 1 TE 1 DEF 1 K 1 FLEX (RB/WR/TE/K/DEF) with Defences scoring:

Fumble Recoveries/Ints/Blocked Kicks of any kind/Safeties - 3 pts

Sacks 1 pt

TDs - 6 pts

0 pts - 18

1-6 - 12

7-13 - 7

14-20 - 5

21 - 27 - 3

28- 34 - 0

34+ = -1

I gave:

Vikings DEF and 2014 2nd (currently 3-1 pretty good roster, should be mid to late)

for

Chiefs DEF

So far this season the Chiefs DEF has scored 101 points in 4 games and aside from 2 games with the Broncs has a delightful schedule. I will play them and the Broncos DEF most weeks with one of them as the flex.

Also have the Giants and Iggles DEFs but both seem a touch useless right now!
:thumbup:

People wildly underrate how much of a difference having a top defense makes. They have little offseason/draft value because they're so hard to predict year to year, but when you're in the middle of a season and you know which ones are the elite ones they're a great buy. At the cost of a late 2nd round pick, which is unlikely to amount to anything, it's a steal.

Fun Fact: The ppg advantage in having the KC Defense over the Min Defense is greater than the ppg advantage in having Adrian Peterson over Fred Jackson.

 
In a 12 team PPR 1 QB 2 RB 4 WR 1 TE 1 DEF 1 K 1 FLEX (RB/WR/TE/K/DEF) with Defences scoring:

Fumble Recoveries/Ints/Blocked Kicks of any kind/Safeties - 3 pts

Sacks 1 pt

TDs - 6 pts

0 pts - 18

1-6 - 12

7-13 - 7

14-20 - 5

21 - 27 - 3

28- 34 - 0

34+ = -1

I gave:

Vikings DEF and 2014 2nd (currently 3-1 pretty good roster, should be mid to late)

for

Chiefs DEF

So far this season the Chiefs DEF has scored 101 points in 4 games and aside from 2 games with the Broncs has a delightful schedule. I will play them and the Broncos DEF most weeks with one of them as the flex.

Also have the Giants and Iggles DEFs but both seem a touch useless right now!
:thumbup:

People wildly underrate how much of a difference having a top defense makes. They have little offseason/draft value because they're so hard to predict year to year, but when you're in the middle of a season and you know which ones are the elite ones they're a great buy. At the cost of a late 2nd round pick, which is unlikely to amount to anything, it's a steal.

Fun Fact: The ppg advantage in having the KC Defense over the Min Defense is greater than the ppg advantage in having Adrian Peterson over Fred Jackson.
Varies hugely depending on scoring system but great point in general. D/ST are pretty much universally undervalued on the trade market.

 
Sent vjax packing for a first rounder, maybe top pick since dude is 0-4.

I had depth with jordy, wallace, harvin and stepan hill. That makes 4 first rounders next year, come on good draft year...

 
Sent vjax packing for a first rounder, maybe top pick since dude is 0-4.I had depth with jordy, wallace, harvin and stepan hill. That makes 4 first rounders next year, come on good draft year...
*and own justin blackmon. We can only keep 4 rec as well

 
Fun Fact: The ppg advantage in having the KC Defense over the Min Defense is greater than the ppg advantage in having Adrian Peterson over Fred Jackson.
The problem, IMO, is that it's very hard to predict which defenses are going to perform well. You know that Adrian Peterson is going to produce top 6-7 RB numbers if healthy. Which defense is that reliable? With the benefit of hindsight you can say that KC has been great this year, but how many people saw that coming? How many people have been starting them throughout this hot streak? How many people really expect that performance to persist all year?

A couple fortunate TD returns can be the difference between a stud defense and a dud defense. I think there's a lot of pure luck involved. It's not like the other positions where you can lock up a guy like Julio Jones or Andrew Luck and expect quality top 10 numbers for the next five years. The hot defense is going to vary wildly by the season or even by the month. Combine that with the fact that viable options are freely available on waivers all the time and I'm not a big proponent of prioritizing the team defense. I'll keep one indefinitely if I stumble upon a good one, but mainly I just play matchups and waivers. Maybe that is a leak, but I'm not so sure.

 
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Fun Fact: The ppg advantage in having the KC Defense over the Min Defense is greater than the ppg advantage in having Adrian Peterson over Fred Jackson.
The problem, IMO, is that it's very hard to predict which defenses are going to perform well. You know that Adrian Peterson is going to produce top 6-7 RB numbers if healthy. Which defense is that reliable? With the benefit of hindsight you can say that KC has been great this year, but how many people saw that coming? How many people have been starting them throughout this hot streak? How many people really expect that performance to persist all year?

A couple fortunate TD returns can be the difference between a stud defense and a dud defense. I think there's a lot of pure luck involved. It's not like the other positions where you can lock up a guy like Julio Jones or Andrew Luck and expect quality top 10 numbers for the next five years. The hot defense is going to vary wildly by the season or even by the month. Combine that with the fact that viable options are freely available on waivers all the time and I'm not a big proponent of prioritizing the team defense. I'll keep one indefinitely if I stumble upon a good one, but mainly I just play matchups and waivers. Maybe that is a leak, but I'm not so sure.
That's the thing though, you don't have to prioritize it to end up with a good one. Hence the trade that got all this started, where the current #1 fantasy defense was moved for a late 2nd round pick.

Also, to be clear here, I'm really only concerned with grabbing them for the current year. Unlike other positions, anything beyond this year is just gravy. They have little value because they're so hard to identify year to year. But they're not hard to identify in the middle of the year. If you could upgrade from Fred Jackson to Adrian Peterson for the rest of the year, how much is that worth to you? JonB got that upgrade for the cost of a late 2nd round pick.

KC could fizzle out, but history seems to imply it's not that likely. The top defenses, and especially the tippy top, seem to be pretty consistent once they're identified a month or so into the year. Last year's top defense a month into the season was Chicago and the top defense at the end of the year was Chicago. Of the top 5 defenses after week 4 of last year, only one finished outside the top 5 (Arizona at #9).

As to the week to week consistency, sure it varies more than other positions, which is another part of what makes those top couple so valuable because they usually don't vary nearly as much.

Consider this...

Last year's top TE finished under five points 2 times and under ten points 9 times. He finished 31 points ahead of the #5 TE and 57 points ahead of the #12 TE.

Last year's top WR finished under five points 2 times and under ten points 5 times. He finished 23 points ahead of the #5 WR and 49 points ahead of the #12 WR.

Last year's top defense finished under five points 3 times and under ten points 5 times. They finished 65 points ahead of the #5 defense and 100 points ahead of the #12 defense.

That's a pretty massive advantage to grab a hold of at a cheap price. That kicker/defense combo way down at the bottom of our fantasy box scores that we don't even pay attention to offers some serious hidden points. Do a little exercise where you look back at games you've lost recently and see how many points you gave up to your opponent at kicker/defense.

 
That's a pretty massive advantage to grab a hold of at a cheap price. That kicker/defense combo way down at the bottom of our fantasy box scores that we don't even pay attention to offers some serious hidden points. Do a little exercise where you look back at games you've lost recently and see how many points you gave up to your opponent at kicker/defense.
I probably should go back and look to see how I've been doing there. It's not something that I think about much.

On the other hand, of course you will tend get outscored at K/DEF when you lose. Just like you will also tend to get outscored at QB/RB/WR when you lose. When your opponent has a good week and you have a bad week, you lose.

I'm still not convinced that it makes sense to give up a top 25-30 pick in a trade for a DEF that might be mediocre in another 12 months. The variability at the top from year to year takes a lot of the appeal out of paying big for a great defense.

 
EBF you're over-rating the realistic projected value of those picks -- it's pretty close to nil almost all of the time in most typical setups. Those are 5th/6th round players and fill the "waiver churn" roster spots.

 
That's a fair point, so let's amend it to compare the K/Def differential between you and your opponent versus the total point differential. That is, how many times did K/Def decide the outcome of the game. This is the first time I've actually run these numbers. Previously it had just been that I'd noticed a trend where I'm looking through a box score wondering how the heck I'm losing a game when it seems like my team is outperforming his, only to finally look at K/Def and realize there was a big difference there.

Here are my 3 main leagues (having a rough year at 2-2 in all three). Bolded games are the ones where the K/Def made the difference.

League 1:

Week 1: +3. Won by 35 points.

Week 2: -14. Lost by 2 points.

Week 3: +16. Won by 56 points.

Week 4: +15. Lost by 18 points.

League 2:

Week 1: +6. Lost by 13 points.

Week 2: -9. Won by 45 points.

Week 3: -10. Lost by 3 points.

Week 4: +25. Won by 4 points.

League 3:

Week 1: -3. Won by 45 points.

Week 2: -16. Lost by 23 points.

Week 3: -9. Lost by 7 points.

Week 4: +14. Won by 18 points.

So in 4 out of 12 games, the K/Def changed the outcome of the game. That is to say that I either won despite having worse play at QB/RB/WR/TE, or lost despite having better play at QB/RB/WR/TE. Note that in league 1 and league 2, I acquired the KC defense between week 3 and week 4.

Small sample size for sure (though about the length of one fantasy regular season when all three leagues are combined), and I'd imagine the actual number is well below 33%. Still, even one or two games over the course of a season can make a huge difference in the standings, not to mention 4. If you can lock up a big advantage over a position that matters that often for cheap, it seems like a bargain.

Guesstimating that the 2nd round pick JonB gave up will be #22 (he said late 2nd), here are the picks at that spot the last 5 years according to MFL ADP:

Geno Smith

Mohamad Sanu

Jake Locker

Brandon LaFell

Rashad Jennings

Even if you gave that pick up every year to get that bonus at defense which could change the result of 2-4 games each season, it doesn't seem like you'd be giving up much.

That said, all of this is far from scientific so who knows what the numbers are like in the long run. Given just my perception though, it's a move I'd make 10 times out of 10.

 
Crazy trade day for me. Sent out a few offers to improve my WR2/3 position two guys accepted almost simultaneously.

Gave: Kendall Wright and a 2014 1st rounder

Got: Roddy White

Gave: Michael Crabtree and a 2014 1st rounder

Got: Antonio Brown

In a different league

Gave: Alfred Morris, TY Hilton and a 2014 2nd

Got: Antonio Brown, Rashard Mendenhall

 
Crazy trade day for me. Sent out a few offers to improve my WR2/3 position two guys accepted almost simultaneously.

Gave: Kendall Wright and a 2014 1st rounder

Got: Roddy White

Gave: Michael Crabtree and a 2014 1st rounder

Got: Antonio Brown

In a different league

Gave: Alfred Morris, TY Hilton and a 2014 2nd

Got: Antonio Brown, Rashard Mendenhall
I feel like you lost this by a a wide margin.

 
Possibly but at some point you just have to look at the numbers. Right now Antonio is the 5th highest scoring non-qb in the league. He's getting hella targets.

 
Crazy trade day for me. Sent out a few offers to improve my WR2/3 position two guys accepted almost simultaneously.

Gave: Kendall Wright and a 2014 1st rounder

Got: Roddy White

Gave: Michael Crabtree and a 2014 1st rounder

Got: Antonio Brown

In a different league

Gave: Alfred Morris, TY Hilton and a 2014 2nd

Got: Antonio Brown, Rashard Mendenhall
I think you slightly overpaid for Brown, I think you WAY overpaid for White.

 
A bunch of trades going down (none involving me). 14 team PPR:

Gave Tony Gonzalez

Got 3rd rounder (mid-late)

(Seems ok, maybe underpay)

Gave MJD, 1st rounder (mid-late)

Got Brandon Marshall

(if I knew Marshall could have been had this cheap, I'd have offered my 1st (likely to be early)).

Gave Trent Richardson

Got LeSean McCoy

(tough to judge; I prefer McCoy)

Gave Andre Ellington

Got 2014 2nd (0-4 team)

Gave Kyle Williams + 2014 2nd (mid)

Got Vincent Jackson

(... that's cheap for VJax)

 
Thoughts on this trade? 12 team PPR dynasty league. Coming into the season, I'm sure most would have wanted the Spiller side. But Morris is averaging a healthy 5.2 yards per attempt.

I gave: Stafford, Spiller, 3rd rounder in 2014

I got: Newton, Morris, 2nd rounder in 2014

Granted there is a lot of time left in the season, but as of today, the 2nd I am receiving would be very early (2.2), and the 3rd I gave up would be a middle to late 3rd.

 
Thoughts on this trade? 12 team PPR dynasty league. Coming into the season, I'm sure most would have wanted the Spiller side. But Morris is averaging a healthy 5.2 yards per attempt.

I gave: Stafford, Spiller, 3rd rounder in 2014

I got: Newton, Morris, 2nd rounder in 2014

Granted there is a lot of time left in the season, but as of today, the 2nd I am receiving would be very early (2.2), and the 3rd I gave up would be a middle to late 3rd.
I like it for you, as I like Newton a lot more than Stafford.

 
PPR

Gave: Gio Bernard

Received: Josh Gordon and 2 future 1sts (both probably mid-to-late)
Seems like a steep price for Gio. I like him, but Gordon is no slouch either. He has a chance to become the better player if he stays clean.

Add in the two first rounders and it seems a bit lopsided.

 
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12 team ppr, start 2RB/2WR/TE can flex any

Sent: CJohnson, Bowe, my 2014 1st

Got: Martin

Neither player was starting for me and my pick should be in the back half of the draft.

 
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12 Team, 1PRR, 2QB-2RB-2WR-1TE-1Flex (RB/WR/TE)-Def

Team A Gave: Amari Cooper, Duke Johnson, DGB, 2014 1st (was 1.01 last year and in contention for that again so far)

Team B Gave: Doug Martin

I wasn't involved, but seeing as I need an RB I kind of wish he would have shopped Martin around first.

Team B could now double up for NFL fantasy football and College fantasy football with Marqise Lee, Amari Cooper, DGB, Duke Johnson, Michael Dyer, Logan Thomas and held Barkley/Lee/Ray Graham/Lacy/Dyer/Montee Ball/Logan last year

 
Made a couple big time trades the last couple days... Both for WIN NOW type teams.

1) I GAVE: DThomas + 2014 3rd

I GET: TRich

2) I GAVE: Kaep, Colston, 2014 1st

I GET: Dez, Dalton

Both trades in same league.... So I traded DThomas, Kaep, Colston, 2014 1st and 3rd for TRich, Dez, Dalton

3) I GAVE: DMC, TSmith, Woods, 2014 1st (projected late)

I GET: Foster, Toon, Greene, 2014 2nd (projected early), two 2014 3rds

4) I GAVE: Gio, BJGE, Cameron

I GET: Morris, Fitz, JBell

Start 1 TE league and I have Graham... also have RBush.

 
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12 team PPR -- two recent trades in our league

Team A gave Fleener

Team B gave 2014 2nd, 2014 3rd

Team C gave Moreno, 2014 2nd

Team D gave Hopkins

 
FFPC 1.5 TE PPR

Code:
     Scott Chandler (BUF)
Code:
     Ryan Mathews (SDG)
Code:
     Josh Gordon (CLE)
Code:
For
Code:
     Darren Sproles (NOR)
Code:
     Hakeem Nicks (NYG)
Code:
     Torrey Smith (BAL)
 
FFPC 1.5 TE PPR

Scott Chandler (BUF)
Code:
     Ryan Mathews (SDG)
Code:
     Josh Gordon (CLE)
Code:
For
Code:
     Darren Sproles (NOR)
Code:
     Hakeem Nicks (NYG)
Code:
     Torrey Smith (BAL)
Give me the Sproles side all day. Gordon might be a beast but Nicks could be too when he leaves the Giants and becomes the number 1 for another team.

 
Start: QB, RB, RB, RB/WR, WR, WR, WR/TE, TE

PPR (.5 for RBs)

4pts passing TD

Couple of trades - not involved

Team A (stacked; anything short of championship disappointment): receives Aaron Rodgers:

Team B (ehhh; off to slow start): receives Luck, LeVeon Bell, Fleener

Team C (in the mix): receives K. Thompkins

Team D (playing for next year): receives Ben Tate

 

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